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Clash of civilizations update from the Christian Science Monitor (hmmm. We're going to have to do something about that name) with thanks to Nicolei:
OXFORD, ENGLAND – In the summer of 2004, Manna Begum was in love with Arash Ghorbani-Zarin, a young Iranian studying in the city of Oxford.Her Bangladeshi parents had arranged for her to be married, but she wanted nothing of it.
Ms. Begum's parents forbade her to see Mr. Ghorbani-Zarin, but she ignored their wishes. Upon discovering in August that she was pregnant, Begum and her boyfriend decided to get married, according to testimony given in an Oxford court last week.
Three months later, Ghorbani-Zarin was killed and Begum's father and brother are now on trial for the murder - apparently the latest in a series of brutal honor killings to take place in Britain.
"The relationship with the girl brought shame and dishonor on the family," prosecuting lawyer Julian Baughan told the court. "That drove the accused, led by the head of the family, to murder Mr. Ghorbani-Zarin to vindicate the family's honor."
The number of such "honor killings" carried out in Britain is unknown. But in late 2004, British police began reexamining 117 murders to see how many were motivated by honor.
The issue has taken on increased sensitivity since the July 7 bombings in London, which heightened attention on ethnic minority communities and their integration into British society.
"People feel that this is defining an important part of who they are," says Humera Khan, who advises An-Nisa, a respected Muslim women's group she helped to found in 1985.
"Making them give it up is a difficult process - especially when campaigns against forced marriage are often led by feminist groups who are also often hostile to religion."
Read it all.
Posted by Robert at October 19, 2005 10:10 AM
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Nothing like having a father convicted of murder to bring honour to your family. I guess it's just a cultural thing.
Posted by: johnb![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 19, 2005 10:42 AM
Quick translation:
Oxford, England = Oxford
Honor = Honour
South Asian = 'from the Indian subcontinent', in practice Pakistan or Bangladesh, ie Muslims, not Hindus or Sikhs (generally).
"People from smaller communities and rural areas have maintained a much stronger sense of traditional dignity and notions of honor - not dissimilar to those of Latin American Catholics," says Haleh Ashfar, a lecturer in politics at the University of York."
=Better hint at decadent Western values to make the Muslims happy. Better mention Catholics to make it look as if it isn't just Muslims.
"Many see investigations into honor killings as an implied criticism of their faith."
= Leave us alone, we'll kill 'our' women if we want to.
"They feel that this is not the time to be critical [of other Muslims]."
= That time will never come, infidel dog.
at October 19, 2005 10:53 AM
I hope the SOB gets life in jail.
Posted by: TooBad at October 19, 2005 11:11 AM
Just as the Holy Roman Empire was said to be neither holy nor Roman nor an empire, the Christian Science Monitor is not particularly Christian or scientific or watchful.
Also, it's about time the Western media stopped making excuses for the barbaric practice of murdering women who've laid claim to their own genitals by calling these crimes "honour killings". There is nothing honourable about them, least of all the fact that they are committed by male relatives in the grip of a chauvinistic dementia.
Posted by: scaramouoche at October 19, 2005 11:11 AM
It is incumbent upon immigrants to observe and obey the laws of land in which they live. Period.
Posted by: epg at October 19, 2005 11:39 AM
"People feel that this is defining an important part of who they are," says Humera Khan.
So honor killings, murder, is a part of who muslims are...telling indeed.
"Making them (muslims sic) give it up is a difficult process"....
In other words,
Making muslims give up murder is difficult process....
And yet Britain is "grappling" with the honor killing dilemna? What's to "grapple" about?
Posted by: jawa at October 19, 2005 11:45 AM
One must have a rather twisted mind to accept 'honor killings' as a cultural norm. This particular case involves even greater twisting.
Note, too, that 37% of those Turks surveyed on the subject back the practice.
"It's just like the bombings - Muslims see a lot of police resources get put into [honor killings] and then say why is nothing done about Islamophobic attacks? This gives the community a feeling of double standards."
They should be reminded that 'Islamophobic attacks' which result in murder would be investigated as murders. It's a matter of scale, Mo.
These folks never want for either excuses, the ability to twist simple logic, or delusional thinking.
"...central to the concept of family honor is the idea that only women can dishonor the family."
"Ghorbani-Zarin's case was unusual in that a man was targeted."
And this one really got my attention.
"Many see investigations into honor killings as an implied criticism of their faith."
Really.
at October 19, 2005 1:12 PM
Just wait till we have a verdict. Probably the accused will get a reduced sentence by a dhimmi British judge.......
Posted by: Anti-PC at October 19, 2005 2:12 PM
I hope the SOB gets life in jail.
Posted by: TooBad at October 19, 2005 11:11 AM
Hardly a chance: These cases have happened (and are still happening) all over Europe. Idiot-judges are falling over themselves with "understanding" of the "cultural differences" and are taking them into account.
I don't know which guidelines they follow or if they judge solely on imagined mitigating circumstances due to the need to "understand" this "culture".
But there have been the most hair-raising, revolting cases where, instead of a life-sentence, the SOB got a couple of years instead.
On which grounds?
Imagined "cultural differences?"
One wonders where that is written...
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 19, 2005 2:16 PM
"It is incumbent upon immigrants to observe and obey the laws of land in which they live. Period."
-- posted by epg
You are sooooo wrong epg.
I had the pleasure of working at the Deputy Chief and Commander level within the fire and police departments of a major city on a computer project, where I heard some fascinating inside stories.
After Black Hawk Down, the city had absorbed tens of thousands of Somali immigrants sponsored by the Clinton administration.
As soon as they landed in their free apartments, first responders started getting emergency calls where pre-pubescent girls were bleeding badly from botched kitchen table-top clitoridectomies.
During the first few such incidents, the fireman would call the cop who would then arrest the Somali dad for battery.
But right away word came down that if anybody tried to enforce the law on a Moslem clitoridectomist again, his career in law enforcement was toast. The firemen were similarly warned to stanch the bleeding and hold for the ambulance and keep their mouths shut about what was going on.
So much for equal before the law. Sensitivity to cultural diversity trumps the U.S. Constitution.
Posted by: Shaughn at October 19, 2005 2:40 PM
When judges begin violating the laws of their own countries to accomodate "cultural differences", the door is opened for anarchy. First muslims wanted the Qur'an to be excluded from the hate speech law so they could continue to exhort its venomous hatred and intolerance. Now they want to commit murder with impunity because it is a cultural norm. Civilized societies do not condone murder under any circumstances. When murder, the most egregious of crimes, becomes socially acceptable, the rule of law will collapse.
The social engineers who designed the multicultural utopia failed to consider the inevitable pitfalls and conflicts that are occurring in every multicultural society. Our civilized, Western societies are retrogressing to accomodate the uncivilized people we have allowed to invade our lands. The anathema of multiculturalism is becoming more apparent every day. I keep searching for the wondrous "tapestry" that is supposed to enrich my life and make me a cosmopolitan citizen of the world. So far, my exposure to the incongruous cultures in my midst has produced nothing but contempt and disgust. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough to see the enriching and valuable aspects of inferior cultures, but then I thought they were axiomatic.
Posted by: Susanp at October 19, 2005 2:59 PM
Talk about crimes against humanity, and perhaps a new class of crime -- crimes against civilization --
No -- I'm not referring to the barbaric Islamic heathens and savages who are conducting these stone aged Islamic slaughters -- I'm talking about the crimes against humanity and civilization by arrogant Western leftists, post-modern intellectuals and craven leadership for allowing the savages to immigrate in culture crushing numbers, and theorizing that exposure to Western civilizational standards would mollify their savagery and culture and make them shed their primitivism, their barbarism -- their loathesome customs of murder, mutilation, and hatred based religion...
Our leaders and the sirens of multiculturalism have welcomed these primitives into our homelands with insane abandon. The cavemen come here and judge US to be immoral -- decadent -- spiritually and culturally bankrupt -- The Muslims lecture US about "tolerance" "inclusiveness" and "enlightenment" while the high priests of political correctness lecture us about our prejudices and warn us against "bigotry" and "racism" and "Islamophobia" when we choke on this Muslim pablum...
What a sick Orwellian world when most Westerners sit by and tolerate the this venomous smarm from two groups... For my druthers, the worst by far are the fantasists who persist, even today, pronouncing that it isn't about Islam -- that Muslims desire the same thing the rest of us do -- that we must not judge them all harshly for the actions of "a few perverters of the faith" What do they know -- look what their theories and attitudes have gotten us so far? A nightmare which doesnt' seem to have any conclusion -- and a swelling angry malignancy has been permitted to take root on our soil -- Despite all the warning signs, the high priests of the West tell us
"That's not cancer you see -- nope -- it's nothing -- don't worry -- it's nothing..."
at October 19, 2005 7:10 PM
Killing for honor is murder, no matter how honorable the killing is believed to be by the murderer.
Those who kill for 'honor' in the western world should realize they are considered dishonorable here and always will be. They are murderers.
Posted by: pythagoras at October 19, 2005 8:18 PM
Susanp,
You wrote:
"Our civilized, Western societies are retrogressing to accomodate the uncivilized people we have allowed to invade our lands."
And the uncivilized, native born, too.
Posted by: PRCS at October 20, 2005 2:48 AM
one thing i dont understand is how on earth did sooo many unskilled/semi-skilled Mirpuris and Bangladeshis got here in first place... Does this have to do anything with the fact that visas werent required for Commonwealth nationals till 1980's?
Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at October 20, 2005 3:01 AM
The usual excuse you get from the Left Islamofascist slime who smarm around this religion and its disgusting practices is that "lots of women from all backgrounds are murdered in domestic violence incidents." They can't even bring themselves to condemn it. If it were a white BNP Nazi beating and killing a female, it would be a different matter of course.
Posted by: londongirl at October 20, 2005 7:06 AM
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