A fifth column, slow-Jihad technique. Take over from within is always the least obvious and most effective way of conquest as the victim is left wondering how this could have happened.

Does anyone know of examples in other Western enterprises or even in Disney within the U.S.?

Posted by: epg at October 21, 2005 7:08 AM

In my whole life I have never heard of a Hindu (that includes Buddhists), a Jew or a Christian or any other faith demanding a prayer room at a work place.

However, when it comes to a Muslim, they always demand one and I find it absolutely ridiculous that they make a spectacle of faith as if by seeing them bang their heads in the direction of the world's largest Rubik's cube is going to impress anyone. Afterall, the friday prayers are not just for praying.

So I guess one day they will demand seperate work areas from the non-Muslims, eventually they will have a seperate union, seperate work code, seperate benefits and as time progresses they will establish a seperate nation openly.

Posted by: Gorkhali at October 21, 2005 7:15 AM

For those interested, here's this quite interesting report: http://www.cf2r.org/download/rapports_recherche/rapport_01.pdf

(Sorry, it's in French - except for a short english summary)

Posted by: Pistache at October 21, 2005 8:05 AM

Ooops... Sorry, the link has changed since I downloaded the pdf... It is now http://www.cf2r.org/download/rapports_recherche/RR1-Islam.pdf

And here's the english summary I was talking about:
_________________________

RADICAL ISLAMISM'S DEVELOPMENT IN FRANCE SECURITY, SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES

Among the 15 million Muslims registered in Western Europe, more than 5 million are established in France, our country being the western state that counts within its population the highest proportion of Muslims.

Since the beginning of the 2000s, the Islamist phenomenon has continually grown, mainly concentrated in the suburban areas. Extremists have become key-players in sensitive areas and
spreading signals of radical Islam are everyday more noticeable. Home Office believes that in only a few years, there has been 50 000 new converts in our country.

In fundamentalist mosques, Islam is taught to populations by radical preachers, often foreigners, who strongly criticize republican institutions and preach an anti-French racism.
Islamists are devoted to question French society's laws and habits in order to substitute their traditional practices to the latter, thus disrupting our democratic and lay institutions. Despite the small proportion of Islamists within the French Muslim community, their virulent activism is moreover preoccupying that there is no frontier between fundamentalist Islam and terrorism.

War against Islamist terrorism, consecutive to 9-11 attacks and Afghanistan campaign, has
revealed the existence of djihadist recruitment networks on our territory, in Paris as much as in
province. Therefore, our suburban areas have become recruitment fishponds, from which hundreds of young French Muslims have already left to Bosnia, Chechnya, Afghanistan or Iraq to fight side by side with mudjahideen and receive a terrorist training. These departures have been as much motivated by the specific sociological context of the immigrated third generation - to which a transit through djihadist camps seem to give a meaning to existence - as by the situation in the Middle East, where the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Iraq occupation enforce the radical Islamists’ victimization.

But Islamism’s spin-offs do not only concern inland security; they also have an incidence on
the economic sphere and certain companies’ activities. Islamist pressure takes place in companies, mainly according to two methods : to convert other employees to a contentious islam and to develop smuggles keen to support the djihad cause. This fundamentalist breakthrough in companies impacts on certain economic activities, notably by generating new sectarian and criminal risks, specific to urban consumption areas in which they are established. This does not exclude any attack assumption against economic players.

Posted by: Pistache at October 21, 2005 8:10 AM

(OT: re. old books

Following Hugh's advice, I've found and began reading "Le radeau de Mahomet" ("the raft of Mahomet", 1983 - seems very good !); through abebooks.com, I was also able to get Henri Lammens's "L'Islam - Croyances et Institution" ("Islam: Beliefs & Institutions")(*), and Antoine Fattal's "Le statut des non-musulmans..." (not yet read).

However, I can't seem to find an affordable copy of André Servier's "La psychologie du Musulman" (1922)...

I read somewhere in the comments that someone was proposing to scan some of those old and never reprinted books... Perhaps that is the solution (even if it time-consuming task!)? I would be willing to contribute with what old books I have...

(*) I bought & read it first in English, and I thought it was such a good, no-nonsense reading that I finally bought a slightly more expensive French copy, so I can lend it to friends)

Posted by: Pistache at October 21, 2005 8:55 AM

Pistache--

Try www.chapitre.com for Servier. Click on "livres anciens." If you are in France, delivery will be even quicker. When you have read it, you might want to xerox it and send it to others. In places Servier goes too far, but only in places. I don't own the book; I made a xerox from a library copy. Fattal can be ordered from bookstores in Lebanon (is that where you got it?). The Lammens has been reprinted, cheaply, in India, as are so many good books on Islam. Let me know, via Robert, what you make of Peroncel-Hugoz (taken off the Middle East beat, after his book appeared, but still writing for "Le Monde"). Anne-Marie Delcambre, "L'Islam des interdits" is short and good; Jean-Paul Charnay --"Principes de strategie arabe" is long and good.

By the way, in 1954, at a very tender age, I was frequently served, at Howard Johnson's, my usual ice-cream cone, by a soda-jerk who was out of th ordinary -- a personable French student spending some time in the United States. As a novelty item ("My First Frenchman"), he stuck in my memory , and so did details I learned about him at the time (I have a good memory). His name: Jacques Chirac. The flavor: pistachio.

As for Jacques Chirac, he hasn't worn well.

As for pistachio, it is still my favorite flavor.

Posted by: Hugh at October 21, 2005 9:20 AM

"A fifth column, slow-Jihad technique..."
-- posted by epg

Frog in the pan is the metaphor used by some. Turn up the heat very slowly and before the frog knows it's too late and he's being boiled alive.

The frog, of course, is a socialist nation state, what with all the self-loathing and counter-productive ruling elite nonsense that Marxism implies.

That makes la belle France particularly vulnerable.

Posted by: Shaughn at October 21, 2005 9:37 AM

>Pistache--

>Try www.chapitre.com for Servier. Click on >"livres anciens." If you are in France, delivery >will be even quicker.

Thanks for the address. Them don't seem to have Servier for the moment, unfortunately (some month ago, I saw one copy on www.abebooks.com, but it was really expensive - and it's not there anymore...)

>When you have read it, you might want to xerox it >and send it to others.

I think that's a good idea - when I find it!

>In places Servier goes too far, but only in >places. I don't own the book; I made a xerox from >a library copy.

I could try to find it that way, through nearby university library (unfortunately, they're quite old fashion, and I can't access their catalog through the web, so I'll have to go there on one of my vacation days)

>Fattal can be ordered from bookstores in Lebanon >(is that where you got it?).

Yup. Kutub, I think it was...

>The Lammens has been reprinted, cheaply, in >India, as are so many good books on Islam.

Yes, that's where I got the english version. I got the french copy (dating 1943) from Lebanon.

>Let me know, via Robert, what you make of >Peroncel-Hugoz (taken off the Middle East beat, >after his book appeared, but still writing for >"Le Monde").

OK, no problem. At this time, I've only read the first chapter, "Les Turcs de profession"...

>Anne-Marie Delcambre, "L'Islam des interdits" is >short and good; Jean-Paul Charnay --"Principes de >strategie arabe" is long and good.

Yes, I know Mrs Delcambre's book, I've read it when it was published; short, and to the point. Actually, I'm also member of a forum on which she writes a lot (Robert has the address - we gave it to him when we proposed to translate his "P.I.G."). I'll try to take a look at Mr Charnay's book...

>By the way, in 1954, at a very tender age, I was >frequently served, at Howard Johnson's, my usual >ice-cream cone, by a soda-jerk who was out of th >ordinary -- a personable French student spending >some time in the United States. As a novelty item >("My First Frenchman"), he stuck in my memory , >and so did details I learned about him at the >time (I have a good memory). His name: Jacques >Chirac. The flavor: pistachio.

;-)))

>As for Jacques Chirac, he hasn't worn well.

I agree...

>As for pistachio, it is still my favorite flavor.

Ditto for me - along with hazelnut!

Posted by: Pistache at October 21, 2005 9:42 AM

The strength of America is that you can have your religion or your culture but you are to practice it in your home or in your church, you do not bring it into the public square.That is the reason the US is the richest and most powerful country the world has even known. How many times have we heard that without oil the entire Arab world has an economy less then that of Finland.Islamic countries are at the bottom economically because while American and Japanese workers are putting in productive 12 hour days Muslims are off somewhere praying or sitting around drinking tea and complaining about Isreal. Making a showy display of religion by praying all day instead of working is just one example of the Muslim's poor work ethic. If I own a business I want hard working productive employees not trouble makers who want to spend time praying on my dime.

Posted by: Roxane at October 21, 2005 9:42 AM

Oh, and at this juncture wouldn't it be fair to observe that Jean-Marie le Pen was right?

I remember him being excoriated and systematically dismantled by the smug, elitist, Marxist French press, and the similarly describable international press.

If le Pen had been elected, by now France would be the best, not worst, positioned caucasian nation.

So where's the press hysteria over Moslem racism?

Oh, I forgot. It's a religion, and therefore above any serious reproach. Jean-Marie was fair game because he was an individual, an individualist, a business man deeply concerned about that his homeland was ruining itself.

En francais, c'est fait accompli maintenant.

Posted by: Shaughn at October 21, 2005 9:47 AM

"along with hazelnut!"
--from a posting above

"En cueillant la noisette" presents itself for singing (Les cingles du Music-Hall, c. 1930) -- but it requires more than one voice.

Posted by: Hugh at October 21, 2005 10:21 AM

Islam needs dhimmi's, it just would not be Islam without them...The superior believers in the superior religion dont want to hear the word 'NO'. Infidels are either 'YES" men or dead men. Giving them a prayer room in business or even prisons should be a given. There is nothing there to debate. Allah 'gets' what Allah 'wants'.
If Allah wants a prayer room, secret or not, in the back room of a Big Mac factory, then by Allah there will be a prayer room. The infidel bosses/dhimmi's will see the light of Allahs will and cave in. They always do...thats why they are dhimmi's...

Posted by: duh_swami at October 21, 2005 11:22 AM

Gorkhali: Yes Muslims pray like the hypocrits! Just as it says in the Bible! They make a spectacle of themselves, as though doing so makes them more religious and pious than me and thee, and therefore better! The fact of the matter is that really good people go about their daily lives and do good deeds in secret, without having to show the world the good deeds they are doing. It is, after all, between the person doing good deeds and God!

Posted by: Mark at October 21, 2005 11:33 AM

"Muslims are off somewhere praying or sitting around drinking tea and complaining about Isreal."

Secret prayer rooms, kidnap, honor killings, throwing acid, beheading, stoning, raping, masquerading in burqa's and firing on the unsuspecting, blowing up children about to get candy, stabbing nuns, drive-by shootings ...?

Yes, "holier than thou" takes on a whole new meaning...

Posted by: Kemaste at October 21, 2005 11:44 AM

Shaughn:

le Pen is an xenophobe who is also virulently anti-Semitic. That type of politician, ultimately, is no better than his ultra multi-cultural polar opposite.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 21, 2005 12:39 PM

Le Pen has been the best friend of Islam in France. His sheer awfulness has made it impossible to discuss the menace of Islam, or the measures appropriate to deal with that menace, sanely. As soon as he dies, things will be better -- Bruno Megret's rump group has not had the same exposure.

Le Pen owes his fortune to some lady who, impressed with his rants, left him everything. He's a swine in every respect. He was, by the way, a stout friend and ally of Saddam Hussein, and while in some sense anti-Arab, has no comprehension of Islam, and of course took the side of Muslim Arabs against Israel. He has no interest, and no knowledge, of the Muslim attacks on Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists. If he is still a Catholic, he is of the sedevacantist variety, one equally contemptuous of John XXIII, and of Benedict XVI.

He is Al-Qaradawi's best friend, and brother under the skin.

Posted by: Hugh at October 21, 2005 12:48 PM

from post above regarding Islam:

"Oh, I forgot. It's a religion, and therefore above any serious reproach..."

should read "Oh, I forgot. It's a NON-CHRISTIAN NON-WESTERN religion, and therefore above any serious reproach...."

Posted by: jsla at October 21, 2005 12:57 PM

"Le Pen has been the best friend of Islam in France."

Sadly YES... It is an incalculable tragedy for the West that the first voices to strongly repudiate Islam's latest and greatest Jihad were the likes of Milosivic or Le Pen... It plays into every cultural Western hot button which the Muslims have learned to press so frequently and with such mind numbing effect. Early on they have been able to link opposition to Islam with repellant characters which only serves to muddy the waters and prevent the real discussion.

I am hopeful, however, that claims of victimhood and Islamophobia are beginning to wear thin as we observe what they continue to do, not what they say, as the best indicator of Muslim intentions.

Posted by: jsla at October 21, 2005 1:16 PM

Interesting point, Swami.

Let Christians demand room to pray in an islamic country, and see what happens.

I expect KT has an avoidance...er, answer...for that.

Prophet Geoff
Beer Be Upon Me

Posted by: Geoff at October 21, 2005 1:33 PM

Iman Geoff
Let Christians demand room to pray in an islamic country, and see what happens.

Thas not a smart move,I can assure you,espcially if the firemen are moslem

Posted by: shiva at October 21, 2005 1:59 PM

With regrads to prayer rooms in public places; I was in the Philippines for business and took a Philippine Airlines (PAL) flight from Manila to Mindanao in the south were most of the country's muslims are. The area is mostly catholic. On the plane there was a small muslim prayer room identified by a mosque logo. Worth noting, the flight from Manila to General Santos is only one hour.
Other PAL planes do not have the prayer rooms. Only the ones dedicated to serve the south. As you may have expected, there were no churches, temples, or chapels on the planes.

Posted by: Anti-PC at October 21, 2005 2:13 PM

Someone should write a history of the Western romanticization and whitewashing of Islam; who knows how far back it goes?

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at October 21, 2005 2:20 PM

"Western romanticization and whitewashing of Islam; who knows how far back it goes?"
--- from a posting above

In art, back at least to the pictures inspired by Napoleon in Egypt, and later there was Delacroix and others painting the exotic in North Africa.

In literature, Sir Walter Scott with The Talisman (Noble Saracens, especially Saladin), Washington Irving (Tales of the Alhambra), and Chateaubriand (Le dernier des Abencerages), all come immediately to mind. So do does Leigh Hunt's poem "Abou Ben Adhem" and some of Shelley's verse, as "The Revolt of Islam."

Nor did it end there. The Arab sheikh as demon-lover (a more exotic version of the Latin Lover, who finally peters out, in a domesticated form, in Desi Arnaz) embodied by Rudolph Valentino flattered the Arabs, and so too did all sorts of popular songs, that showed them as kind or amusing souls. Look at collections of popular songs of the period 1890-1930, for example Sigmund Spaeth's "Read 'Em and Weep" -- and you will find amusing and sympathetic portrayals of the Turk and the Arab and the exotic East. all sorts of little ditties about the exotic Arab East. In a complete History of the Hasty Pudding Club I found that a favorite subject for its shows in the period 1900-1930 was the Arabs, all date-palms and camels and carpets and sharivaris and scimitars, but friendly folk withal. Said had it wrong, all wrong -- the Western world did not depict the Arabs and Muslims unflatteringly, but as far too amusingly benign. The Western world, in the last century, has managed -- outside the world of real scholars -- to ignore Islam, its significance, its tenets, its attitudes, its atmospherics. And the results we can see, in Western Europe, all about us.

Posted by: Hugh at October 21, 2005 3:33 PM

Christians don't need special prayer rooms at work not because they necessarily pray only at home or at church, but because they don't have to make a big show of it. I can be at my desk praying and no one else would know - not because I'm trying to hide praying, but because it's part of an ongoing relationship with God. Paul said to pray without ceasing.

As to work ethic, Roxanne and Mark are right. St. Francis said that our work is a form of prayer. The Bible says, "Whatever you do, work at it with all your might, as unto the Lord, not to men." That's part of why Christian cultures have a stronger ethic of hard work.

Posted by: iwritethebook at October 21, 2005 4:49 PM

The thing is that they are trying to take over businesses to further jihad. They're talking about theft, embezzlement: they're operating like the mafia.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 21, 2005 6:33 PM

There goes Shaughn again with his blindered rant

"he frog, of course, is a socialist nation state, what with all the self-loathing and counter-productive ruling elite nonsense that Marxism implies."

LOL, take a deep breath and a reality check, in the US it is the "corporations"the capitalists that are selling us out to Islam, and in the EU the same, corporate capitalism, maximize profits, minimize costs (cheap Muslim labor) and get into as many markets as you can.

And BTW, the Eurodisney affair, cough, cough. It was Michael Eisner in his desperate need for money, that approached the Saudis who were more than glad to come up with $300 million to bail out Michael and Eurodisney, and the cost? Well, the Saudis now own a controlling interest in Disney, which has a controlling interest in ABC and other news media.

Your anti "socialist" Caapitalist hero's are selling the rope that will be used to hang us.

Perhaps you don't get it, the problem is not the politics of ideology as you think you know it, or as you wish it to be.

Play detective.

A crime is committed
Look for motive and means.
The motive is profit and power
the means is money.

Follow the money.

Posted by: Nariz at October 21, 2005 7:54 PM

This is typical islamic behaviour.
They destroy what they cannot create.
islam has failed to provide a successful economic model anywhere, so they destroy.

I have experienced this type of behaviour myself.
While working at an IT dept of a hospital, we were joined by a pak moslem. What does he do ?
he sits on our shoulders while we log into admin systems, when he leaves the mysterious attempts to hack into the servers externally begin, strangly enough they are using our user names and what no doubt he thought were our passwords.

Posted by: apostate_islam at October 22, 2005 6:11 AM

Re: Historical American Fascination With Orientalism

During the Civil War, a number of regiments, both Federal and Rebel, identified themselves as "Zouave" soldiers, and dressed accordingly in a Turk-like costume.

http://philazou.home.mindspring.com/page7.html
There is a picture of the uniform on this page.

Another popular culture phenomenon that "educated" Americans about the Arabic world was Lowell Thomas. He wrote a series of syndicated newspaper articles about T.E. Lawrence which mesmerized the country. There were also Lowell Thomas newsreels playing at the movie theaters (which were the nation's premiere form of entertainment from the mid teens to the mid 50s), and so many Americans were at least somewhat knowledgeable about the existence of Arabs.

Posted by: TempeB at October 22, 2005 1:41 PM

There goes Nariz again with his blindered Marxist rant...

All about productions and the ownership of the means....

NO -- It's not -- It's about imposing Islam on the world -- a supremacist utopian ideology, more poisonous than Marxism and more dangerous than Nazism... After all there are 1.2 billion Muslim thralls from which tens upon tens of millions are prepared to annihilate you for the sake of Allah's exhortations to do same....

Not a crime -- no need for Sherlock, Sherlock --

Posted by: jsla at October 22, 2005 2:19 PM

Hugh and Pepper,

I've been doing some research on this myself (re. whitewashing). I've found evidence from those "noble savage" letters that Ibn Warraq introduced me to. I've read a couple in Spanish from the 1600s. That far back!

I'd like to write a book on this, but I need others to read German, French, Italian for me, as I can only read English and Spanish. I'm also writing a book on the myths surrounding the 1492 expulsion of Jews and how "they all went to Turkey". Hope this gets done within a few more years, or little volumes.

Any takers?

Posted by: Ibn Rushd at October 22, 2005 8:51 PM

The problem with turning this list of intellectual achievements into a convincing "Islamic" golden age is that whatever flourished, did so not by reason of Islam but in spite of Islam. Moslems overran societies (Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish) that possessed intellectual sophistication in their own right and failed to completely destroy their cultures. To give it the credit for what the remnants of these cultures achieved is like crediting the Red Army for the survival of Beethoven in East Berlin under Walter Ulbricht! Islam per se never encouraged science, in the sense of disinterested enquiry, because the only knowledge it accepts is religious knowledge.

As Bernard Lewis explains in his book What Went Wrong? the Moslem Empire inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle east, of Greece and of Persia, it added to them new and important innovations from outside, such as the manufacture of paper from China and decimal positional numbering from India." The decimal numbers were thus transmitted to the West, where they are still mistakenly known as "Arabic" numbers, honoring not their inventors but their transmitters.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/www/News/Trifkovic/NewsST110403.html

Posted by: leavingtheleft at October 22, 2005 11:45 PM

Leavingtheleft:

Superb points -- especially the idea of crediting the Red Army with Beethoven! Even accepting the wilful exaggerations and distortions of Muslims and Islamic apologists regarding Islamic history, their much vaunted "high points" appear to be so rare, and of such an evanscent duration that it is reasonable to conclude that these are the exceptions and NOT the rule!

Posted by: jsla at October 23, 2005 7:52 PM