| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Jihad Watch | Robert Spencer | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog |  |
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Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the present Western stance toward Turkey, as epitomized by former General Brent Scowcroft, and recommends an alternative:
“Turkish Parliament Speaker Bulent Arinc has said, ‘we have always felt contributions of the United States to Turkey`s EU process.’ Arinc hosted dinner in honor of Brent Scowcroft, chairman of the Board of the American-Turkish Council (ATC), and accompanying delegation in Ankara on Thursday.” — from this article, October 21, 2005Brent Scowcroft, chairman of the Board of the American-Turkish Council (ATC). Well, of course. It makes sense. Hard-on-Israel ergo soft-on-Islam Brent Scowcroft. The chocolate soldier who rose through the ranks, like the Gilbert-and-Sullivan admiral who polished up the handle of the big front door and became a captain in the Queen's navee, Scowcroft has a lifetime of polishing, apple-polishing for his civilian superiors.
And here is Turkey, the country that wishes to enter the E.U., feting Scowcroft. And here is the government of the United States pushing for Turkey's admission to the E.U., which is a clear sign to all those who think that this Administration "secretly" understands Islam and is "just playing a clever game" (which includes all those who so tiresomely keep defending the wonderful Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations Project in Iraq). And Scowcroft is getting how much from the Turkish government, directly or indirectly, for his new post, one no doubt among many?
And who cares if the E.U. has as its largest member Turkey, so that all Turks can, by the rules of the E.U., move freely anywhere within that same E.U, and set up doner kebab shops, and mosques, and swell the ranks still further of those ever-swelling ranks of Muslims who, almost without exception, have everywhere they have settled within Europe made life more unpleasant, more expensive, and more physically insecure for the indigenous Infidels (and for other non-Muslim immigrant groups who, unlike the Muslims, settle in Europe without making life more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous for everyone else)? Brent Scowcroft doesn't. From desk-job after desk-job, he rose high. And now he lives the life of comfort, paid for by those who do not so much wish Turkey and Erdogan well, but those, and there are so many of them, who simply want the money, whether from Turkey pushing in its own way at the Gates of Vienna, or Saudi Arabia trying to prevent any understanding of what Saudi Arabia is and does and always will be and always will do.
He's a type. Brent Scowcroft. He has nothing to do with the officers and men who were in Iraq, and some of whom are paying with their lives for the decades of misunderstanding of Islam that these well-heeled denizens of official Washington receive, in a thousand ways, in order to misinform and misdirect the government, the media, and us.
Were those well-heeled denizens of official Washington suddenly to snap to their senses, here are the three things that must be required of Turkey before negotiations can be continued:
1. Formal recognition of the mass-murder of Armenians in 1894-96, and the mass-murder, amounting to genocide as that term is often applied, in the period 1915-1920.2. Removal of the green flag of Islam from Hagia Sophia, allowing Western (and Turkish) artisans to restore, as much as possible, the building, and permitting the holding, in Hagia Sophia, of church services -- so that, as a working church, Western and Turkish visitors, both among the permanent residents and tourists, can participate in, or observe, what was the first church in what for a thousand years was the most largest and most important city in all of Eastern Christendom and, for much of that time, the most important city in Christendom, period.
3. Withdrawal of Turkey from the "Islamic club" of the O.I.C. For while the charge that the E.U. is a "Christian club" is nonsense, the O.I.C. is definitely and openly based entirely on Islam as the unifying and animating force. Turkey should not expect as a member of such an "Islamic club" to be admitted into the E.U. -- see the speech of Mahathir Mohamed to the assembled worthies of the O.I.C. to get a sense of what goes on at these meetings.
These are not demands to be met AFTER admission. They are not demands to be met in a few years. They should be the sine qua non, the initial and minimal requirements that must be met.
They can't? Turkey just can't own up to its treatment of the Armenians (not to mention its massacres of Maronites and Assyrians and others, not to mention the mass exile of Greeks and mob violence against the much-diminished Greek remnant in 1955, not to mention the devshirme, not to mention the...). Too bad.
Turkey simply can't can't can't open up the Hagia Sophia and allow it to be used again as a church, though there are mosques in every major and minor city in Europe and North America? Why not?
Turkey can't leave that aggressive and menacing O.I.C. (see – again -- that Mahathir Mohamed speech, and the ecstatic reception it received)?
No?
Too bad. We have been told in the E.U. repeatedly that Turkey is not like those other Muslim countries. Turkey, we are told, is a "secular" state, Turkey is a "modern" state, Turkey is a state that does everything it can to be a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state.
Really?
Three easy ways to begin to prove it.
If even those three steps cannot be taken, then there is no point in further discussions. And it will be hard to make the case that any of these requests were unreasonable -- at least in the rest of the non-Islamic world. Although Scowcroft and his ilk will never make even these reasonable requests.
You remember that business on television a few years ago, declaring someone the weakest link, and wishing him (or her) an abrupt goodbye?
Well, goodbye.
Posted by Robert at October 22, 2005 8:57 AM
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Overall this was a very good post. I only have a problem with the Hagia Sophia part. Asking the Turks to do that would bring pressure in Spain to return the Andalucian Islamic buildings to the Muslim community. As the late Pope John Paul II told the Muslims that asked what I mentioned from the Vatican, "One has to accept history".
As much as I regret it (and I have personal reasons to regret it) Istambul is a reality and Constantinople is a faded dream. We too have to accept the past and learn from it to shape the future. We can't and we shouldn't try to live in a past that is no more.
Posted by: cruzado![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 22, 2005 9:46 AM
Cruzado - Muslims should adopt your philosphy. We are in our present predicament because they can't let go of the past.
Posted by: epg at October 22, 2005 10:20 AM
well, st. sophia is the symbol of the hellenic nation. It is equilivelant to the parthenon and athens' acropolis. The largest christian temple is under muslim occupation and soon will collapse. Just to remind you that the Greek state pays for the restoration of the holy church but the turks are the ones that are getting the profits from the 10 euro ticket to enter st.sophia.
Do not forget that turks/muslims are occupators,it is not their land!!!
Posted by: chris at October 22, 2005 12:31 PM
Cruzado sez:
"... I only have a problem with the Hagia Sophia part. Asking the Turks to do that would bring pressure in Spain to return the Andalucian Islamic buildings to the Muslim community..."
The Mohammedans are claiming all of "Al Andaluz", not just a few buildings.
As epg points out, your view is rather defeatist. Learn from the Mohammedans and stand your ground!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 22, 2005 2:42 PM
Is there a method or context to this policy of pushing for Turkey's entry to the EU?
PM Blair and Pres Bush as world statesmen view a "globalised" world, almost a kind of philosophy of globalisation, seeing people of all cultures as desiring a free and democratic society. Pres Bush has oft stated this view in leadup to the intervention in Iraq. In this view of the world, not only is a free and tolerant democratic society the norm but goes hand in hand with market oriented capitalism, where not only is there free passage of goods but also of people. A liberal capitalism.
In some ways this is quite a nice and feel good view of the world. The only fly in this ointment is that muslim cultures do not view a society in this manner.
So side by side with supporting Turkey's entry to EU, both governments have allowed a very lax immigration policy to come to pass, as part of the global view of free passage of people. In Britain, the number of immigrants coming to Britain both legally and illegally, and most of these are muslim, is now at its height. Yet Labour has done nothing to address this issue, despite unease aming the general population and other religious minorioties such as Sikhs and Hindus. There is evidence that the BNP is profiting from this. In the US, the southern border is open. Despite citizen concerns and even action, nothing much has changed.
Very soon, Iraq will be declared a "democratic" society by both Britain and the US to show success of their much criticised intervention in Iraq. This will be based on the simple formula that Iraq has had a head count to decide who governs. No mention will be made of the vanishing or vanished Iraqi Christian population. Iraq, like Turkey will be declared a society that is tolerant of religious minorities. In this view of things, Iraq, Turkey's neighbour will also become eligible to the EU, and by extention the rest of the Arab-muslim world.
There could be two flies in this ointment. First is that muslim cultures who do not view the world in this manner. The second, is the rise of far right parties in Europe, and also the likelihood of citizen action in the US.
Posted by: DP111 at October 22, 2005 5:22 PM
which includes all those who so tiresomely keep defending the wonderful Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations Project in IraqGuilty as charged. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong when it's clear I was. I feel I owe a debt to those who died trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein after the Gulf War with U.S. encouragement, but no support. Posted by: Beagle
at October 22, 2005 5:36 PM
YET ANOTHER "republic, conservative" DHIMMI.
This isn't about liberals vs. conservative... it's about Islam's incompatibility with civilization.
The Saudis buy everone they can find that has a little influence, if they are for sale, rather they are liberal or conservative.
That's how they got James Baker. It's how they got Kissinger, Bush, Blair, Powell, Hughes, Rice, Rummy, Major, the Pope, etc. etc.
Frank Zappa said it best when he sang:
"Well I’m about to get up sick
From watchin my t.v.
Been checkin’ out the news
Until my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when it’s gonna change, my friend
Is anybody’s guess"
at October 22, 2005 8:12 PM
"I feel I owe a debt to those who died trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein after the Gulf War with U.S. encouragement, but no support."
--- from a poster above
Do you mind the Shi'a who rebelled in the south, people who think like the current Prime Minister Al-Jaafari of the Dawa Party, or is those in the SCIRI Party, or possibly the followers of Moqtada al-Sadr, he whose father and uncles were among those Shi'a executed by Saddam Hussein's Sunni security forces -- do you "owe them a debt"?
How large is that debt? Last I looked more than $350 billion had been spent, and every year from now on (and an American general has said that the "Iraqi" army -- whatever that is -- will not be ready for at least two years, whatever "ready" means) will cost about $60-75 billion, so that if the Americans remain for another two years that could mean, once one factors in the extra costs associated with getting the massive kit and caboodle back here again (or are we going to leave some of that equipment, crazily, for our new friends in the Muslim Arab army of Iraq? God, anything is possible when an essential point is missed, the point about Islam)? And are 2,000 men killed, and 14,000 wounded enough to pay that psychic "debt" you apparently feel to the Shi'a in southern Iraq?
So, let's sum up: so far $350 billion with another $150 billion in the offing. Desert-degraded equipment. Morale down in the regular army with young officers simply not re-enlisting. Morale down in the civilian army with fury among many of the Reservists and National Guard who feel, with reason, that they were misled about what their normal duties would be, and even if they were willing to endure one tour in Iraq, certainly did not bargain on more than that, and will not re-enlist, not urge others to enlist -- and as we can see, the numbers, and the quality, and the standards required now by the Army, are all dropping -- entirely a result of people who, having been in Iraq, do not buy the Party Line of Bush, Rice, and the loyal generals who, of course, are inhibited from telling the truth, or may themselves never had the time, or even the inclination, to begin to see a much bigger picture, which if they possessed, would lead them to urge withdrawal so as to allow the natural fissures within Islam, so apparent in Iraq, to widen and widen and widen.
Posted by: Hugh at October 22, 2005 8:37 PM
The Muslims might lay a claim to Andalucia? That`s a bit like Straw saying admit Turkey or else....
But they already do. Just like they claim the Taj Mahal http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4348663.stm
They also claim that since Adam and Eve were muslim everyone should be muslims.
Posted by: leavingtheleft at October 23, 2005 12:18 AM
So, Brent Scowcroft is chairman of the board of the American-Turkish Council.
He and Jimmy Carter were joined at the hip. Remember? You know, Jimmy Carter, that fat-lipped country-bumpkin who brought us the Iran hostage debacle. Couldn't find his ass with both hands. Still can't. But he'll certify every rigged election for every tin-pot dictator in the world, and then complain about Florida.
The European Union was on the way to being a huge economic power, a rival to the United States. There was a lot of potential. The passenger aircraft industry of Airbus, leaping (well, easing) ahead of Boeing, for example. But they are blowing it. They just can't give up all that socialist crap.
Now they are going to disrupt their populations even more by adding Turks, in quantity. The European people are restless. Even the French are having doubts, but this Turkish marriage looks like it is going to happen, like a pregnant bride that can't contemplate calling the wedding off.
And Scowcroft is a broker. What kind of pentagon did we have under Carter/Scowcroft? Aircraft were being cannibalized for spare parts to keep a few running. Operational readiness in some air force units was well under 40 percent, as I recall. But he got to the top. I'll bet his fingerprints are all over Turkey's entrance into NATO. Any takers?
at October 23, 2005 12:35 AM
Turkey has to pay when though bein a NATO member denied the earlier granted military access to the invasion of Iraq. This resulted in the diversion and upset the plans thinning out the advance to Baghdad. This led to mauch loss of human life and the resultant chaos. A perfect sabotage.
Most assuredly Turkey must, and will pay.
Posted by: leavingtheleft at October 23, 2005 1:21 AM
Hopefully leaving the left doesn't involve leaving common sense. The Iraq operation had nothing to do with NATO. Otherwise Germany and France would have needed to join, along with all the other NATO nations such as Greece, Portugal, and the rest. I suppose they all must and should pay as well, for their "sabotage."
I understand the Turkish government wanted to join in, as Turkey had always proved herself a staunch ally with previous U.S. military adventures where other nations formed a coalition, from Korea to the Gulf War. It was the Turkish people who nixed it, a drawback of democracy.
Posted by: watchingtoo at October 25, 2005 3:35 AM
The Turkish government did not want to join in. They wanted to be paid to join and held out for more and more money plus gaurentees that the Kurds would be, well, screwed once again.
To state Turkey has alwayy been a "staunch ally" is ahistorical. Looking at the past 100 years yhey seem to have been either on the wrong side or neutral in the most serious wars.
Yes they fought in Korea. But they were wallowing in US aid. In adjusted 2005 dollars since the end of World War II, the single largest recipent of US aid on the planet is Ankara. Yes more than Israel, more than Egypt, more than France, German and Japan in reconstruction following the war.
I am happy that Fitzgerald noted that Scowcroft is part of the paid lobby for Ankara. He has been a PRINCIPLE and cynical force behind the laiise faire attitude toward the murder of the Kurds since he took the point on keeping Bush Sr. from ending Saddam over a decade ago.
Posted by: murphyslaw at October 25, 2005 7:53 PM
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