It seems that Muslim women are the doom of Islam as we know it, at least in the west. Irshad Manji, Hirsan Ali, Amina Wadud, even hip hop star Deeyah are refusing to submit to the way of life that so many Muslims think is predetermined. Most Muslim women, secretly or openly, must admire them. Everywhere the repression of women is subverted, Islamic militancy will deflate. Even "Islamic feminists" who claim, however absurdly, that Islam does not support misogyny, have a part to play. In the end it could be Muslim women who defeat the global Jihad.

Quijybo

Posted by: Quijybo at October 28, 2005 4:50 PM

The title is like a puzzle -

Is "the problem" Islam itself... Or is ignoring Islam and refusing to consider it as the culprit in causing the mayhem, destruction, and fascism "the problem..." This epitomizes the major quandry for the West...

We in the secular West have many self imposed laws and institutions developed to prevent trampling human rights and prevent giving in to racism and intolerance. We have struggled long and hard to develop these institutions and cultural attitudes. It is integral to our success as a culture.

Now we find ourselves confronted by large numbers of Muslims who wish to exploit these rights and privileges, who take full advantage of them largely or primarily to further their agenda of spreading Islam --

We are also learning that Islam bears a feral animus towards those very rights and privileges. We are also learning that Muslims are totally willing to exploit those selfsame rights and privileges to further their agendas, even if that means they eventually intend to impose a new set of laws and institutions, none of which offer the non-muslim the same rights and privileges. In short, they wish to exploit these cultural traits to subvert the culture, and replace it eventually with their own...

What should be our response? Do we appease this class of citizen, this sector who self directs its adherents not to "mix" with the infidel, this segment of society which has instilled an allergy to our laws and customs, and instructs its followers not to assimilate... What to do with a population willing to use your laws to further their own goals, among which is the abrogation of your rights? Is it to be tolerated?

What can we do? What should we do?

Here's the math, as I see it... Those Muslims who conduct terror operations further certain planks of the Islamist agenda through fear, intimidation, and genocide. Their supposedly "moderate" counterparts work tirelessly to promulgate their version of "moderate" Islam (which seems suspiciously susceptible to the growth of the uglier more extreme variety aformentioned...)
Taken as a whole, the Jihadis and the "moderates" are clearly two faces of the exact same coin. You can't have one without the other... BOTH agendas are determined to force Islamic laws and culture increasingly onto non-Islamic ones until sufficient erosion has happened, either violently or through agitation, to supplant the former system with the Islamic one.

The problem STARTS with Islam -- and is abetted by the ignorance, genuine or willful of the targetted victim -- the non-Muslim...

Posted by: jsla at October 28, 2005 5:13 PM

I wonder how Hirsi removed the inculcated thought occlusion from her brain.

She's Abyssinian, so I assume she must have been thoroughly brain-formed by the Islam. All the more reason to remark at her enlightenment and wonder how it got done.

Brain surgery? Advanced pharmaceuticals? She just has the special mind of a remarkable woman?

How?

The Dutch government should assign its best scientists to study her brain after she is murdered by an enraged Moslem, which is bound to happen in a year or so, once the Active Good Moslems figure out how to penetrate the security cordon that preserves her like a hothouse flower in her own pesonal pad in Downtown Undisclosed Locationville.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 28, 2005 5:38 PM

chaz, your black humor cuts too close to the bone for comfort. Each day Hirsi lives is another miracle. She defines the word courage and is one of my favorite heroines of all times, along with Oriana Fallaci.

Posted by: the poetess at October 28, 2005 5:59 PM

Funny how Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become "conservative" by just opposing islam. Didn't she use to be classified as a "liberal"?

Posted by: 3812Michelle at October 28, 2005 6:45 PM

So sorry, poetess, but comfort can no longer be a variable in the equation. The Western World has painted itself into a corner, and is now so badly caught up that the only way out will necessarilly involve great pain and suffering for billions of infidels.

I will mourn her murder as much as you. But it is mandated by the Holy Sunnah.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 28, 2005 7:06 PM

Why is she not brought, well-guarded, to make speeches in Washington, to testify before Congress, to be caught on the evening news? Look at her, for god's sake. Who could better get attention for what needs to be said? Who better to get the attention of Bush, Rice, and all those Congressmen and generals? Who better to be interviewed on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CNN?

Posted by: Hugh at October 28, 2005 7:43 PM

Ms. Ali is right, and the reality, the enormity, that islam is the problem, is the truth i try to spread.
Without this truth being accepted overwhelmingly, we will not survive.

This long running islamic war to take over the planet has to stop; it's been going on for 1500 years now.
Islam is a totalitarian fascist ideology programmed to subvert the planet, with terror facilitating faster subvertion by killing vocal opponents/and frightening others to silence. One good reason politicians are silent is that they are scared, really scared.

Sure hope i live to see the day islam is a depleted force, a burnt out husk, a bad memory.

Posted by: dby at October 28, 2005 8:02 PM

Quijybo;

I recall posting along the same lines a while back. I had remarked that women are the key if there is to be any hope of civilized Islam in any form, by any name, in the future.

But can they do it, starting out from such a position, surrounded, literally everywhere, by men who will do everything in their power to battle such an affront to God. It will take countless women of Ali's courage, fortitude, and intellect, uncountable numbers of whom will not live to see that which they will give, or have taken from them, their lives by maggots who will view the crimes they commit as honorable acts while, being maggots and doing what maggots do, they flourish and are sustained by the corpses, corpses grotesquely reaffirming their own life force.

The women of Islam, once roused, will face an unavoidable gendercide as an absolute requirement of breaking their chains, a women-only vista of mass graves that will make islam's historic best-efforts seem inconsequential.

As the horrific spectre of their frothing, vein-bulging, righteous-grimace-of-impending-annihilation, insane-with-incomprehensable-rage Quran-designated superiors is the last thing they see in this life, will Western feminists be shamed into coming to the "aid" of these women or will the mantra of multiculturalism and moral equivalence give them the ability to sleep well at night while real women die and the din of doublespeak and shameful rationalizing drown out the screams?

Is is even possible that the muslim women can find their voice?

jsla;

"feral animus"

Too true. Our society works when and because people come to the table in good faith. An absolutist ideology which comes and, from behind a facade of compliance, engages the system to abuse and manipulate our society for it's own gains, with the ultimate goal of hijacking it, destroying it, and replacing it with their own system of tyranny is a threat without equal.

If the threat is absolutist, how do you successfully deal with it other than with equally absolutist measures.

Posted by: t-ham at October 28, 2005 9:05 PM

Yes -- T-ham --

I keep coming up with the same calculus -- I'm still willing to see what happens through the Iraq/Afghanistan projects... Unlike Hugh, I am not certain they are doomed to fail -- but chalk that up to imperial hubris or something --

Recognizing the extreme complexity of our dilemma on one hand is a requisite for us to maintain our righteousness -- But sadly, we may be confronted here with a force, similar to an enzyme which acts upon the very sinews and connective tissue of our body politic. Our abhorence to discriminate is being confronted. We are required to play an imperial role, despite our nations natural aversion to this role... (despite what the hackneyed Europeans and fantasist leftists might say about us) America does not wear this mantle happily --

I often scoff at the indictment of the marxists and Chomskyites -- the notion that this is all being done for profit -- -- How ludicrous -- America has never seen better days than the relatively peaceful 1990s -- When there is world peace -- there is no limit to the American potential... So this burden, placed on us by a culture and religion which is so profane, is truly a heavy one.

I am also very skeptical of the hopes placed by some that Muslim women can come to the fore and help fix Islam -- I believe it will always be a recidivist ideology -- No matter how much progress might be made at one juncture in time to depart from the stone age, Islam will be susceptible to erase any progress and regress into new waves of old time religion... Some call this petrification -- but I see it more as a thriving system, primitive, but extremely effective at propegating its meme and maintaining its basic structure through time.

Truly, I understand why the Muslim feels that the West inherently is attacking Islam. Where would Islam be if the individual is empowered to flout the religious order? To not believe, if he so chooses? Where would Islam be if women are allowed to crawl out from under the oppressive authority of the paranoid lazy and incompetent males, who derive self worth through being able to kick the dog, kick the wife, and murder the daughter if she gets out of line -- all without retribution? Where will Islam be if it faces the truth about itself -- if it sheds the idea that apostates can leave without censure or death -- On some level Islam seems to understand it only holds sway by utilizing totalitarianism torture and terror --

The things seem intertwined -- Islam sometimes reminds me of WorldCom -- remember - that was the company that only could stay in business if it kept gobbling up competitors and deflecting analysis of its core underpinnings -- each new gobbling rearranged the books and prevented a day of reckoning...

Just so, Muslims seem to have some notion that, if only this or that external impediment was to be removed, or if only a Caliph were once again "in charge" -- then all would be alright... This is such a staggering postponement of the day of reckonging -- Of course the Caliph won't do anything to fix conditions on the ground for the average Muslim -- of course the annihilation of Israel won't do anything to fix conditions for the average Muslim -- But even the Malaysians, the Indonesians, American Muslims, UK Muslims, fervently put forth the fantasist notion that any one of these things might be the panacea to fix repair thier broken lives...

Like a drunk, or a drug addict -- health and cure can only come when the patient faces the truth about himself and what he's done -- many don't ever arrive at this point -- but if they do, then a realization that the blame game, where the patient is the victim and the world his vicimizer must be abandoned -- The realization that the problem comes from within must be confronted.

We see here some posters who exemplify the denial of the alcoholic, the dysfunctional addict -- despite all evidence to the contrary -- the blame is directed outward -- It's the Americans -- It's the Jews -- It's the Shiites - It's the Sunnis -- Fill in the blank ---

Any evidence of this kind of realization among the Muslims we see? I don't see even a hint...

This leaves us with some fairly grim options...
Tick tock -- tick tock....

Posted by: jsla at October 28, 2005 10:11 PM

Sorry Hugh, but there is no way this woman would get a fair shot on American MSM except for FOX. Any real air time would come with the caveat that she is somehow not quite right in the head, and various counterpoint speakers would be found to refute her.

The MSM is complicit in the slow but inexorable loss of our liberties to the madness known as fundamentalist islam.

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at October 28, 2005 10:33 PM

Here is something that every person inclined to believe that all religions are equally tolerant should read. The good imam, mainstream, explains exactly what the duty of the Muslim world is vis-a-vis the "Kuffir." Notice that when speaking to Muslims there is no pretense that Jihad is anything but a physical, worldly action... Here it is spelled out. Either let us convert you aor we are justified by our religion in killing you.

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12128

Posted by: tokyobk at October 28, 2005 10:38 PM

Hirsi Ali is a very brave woman but I don't think that she or Muslim women are the key to the downfall of Islam.It appears Muslim men have no problem attacking and killing weaker women for even the most minor infraction.So the end result would be more dead women.I think the key to defeating Islam is to make Muslims live in Islamic countries under Islam.No more immigration to the West, no more dumping of excess Muslim labor in the West. No attendance at Western Universities, no health care in the West, no Western technology and no aid money.Let Muslims fend for themselves in their own countries.Islam is parasitic producing nothing of value so lets see how long these countries last.Return Muslims to their Islamic lands and we will see just how much Muslims really like living under Islam.

Posted by: Roxane at October 29, 2005 2:06 AM

Christopher Caldwell's article "Daughter of the Enlightenment" in the Oct 15 2005 SMH Good Weekend mag was a chilling indictment of Islam, and it portrays how Moslems themselves are victims of Islam. A Somali-born woman, Hirsi Ali escaped from an arranged marriage, and found refuge in the Netherlands. In 2001, her work colleagues discussing 9/11 concluded that it would be too simplistic to blame Islam for the attacks. "Hirsi Ali begged to differ" writes Caldwell; "if I were a male, I could have been there" [flying planes into skyscrapers] "It was exactly what I used to believe."

How does Islam stack-up, politically-correct-wise?

Racism: attitude to Jews similar to the policies of Nazi Germany (exterminate)
Religion: does not tolerate other religions; persecution and higher rates of tax (jizya) for non-Moslems in Islamified countries; Christian symbols including the cross on Red Cross ambulance vehicles not permitted.
Homosexuals: death by beheading.
Women: no equality in employment or legal representation.
Family: polygamy is permitted[men may have up to 4 wives]; a man may divorce a wife by saying 3 times "I divorce you"; legal "age of consent" for girls is 9 (please ask me why, if you don't know) in the Islamic Paradise of Iran; wife beatings; "honour killings"; arranged marriages; Moslem girls in Africa undergo genital mutilation as young as 5 (not all points strictly limited to Islam, but are very common in Islamic culture and/or sanctioned by Islamic law)
Slavery: not illegal in Qur'anic law (Sharia)
How can we pride ourselves on being a tolerant society, at the same time embracing a totally intolerant culture under the umbrella of multi-culturalism? Islam is the antithesis of everything we value including life itself. It is a threat to our way of life, our freedom, our democracy and our security. The goal and the tactics have been made clear: to establish a global Caliphate via terrorism. And totally justified by the Qur'an: "8.12": When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."19.40": Surely We inherit the earth and all those who are on it, and to Us they shall be returned.
If we resist the jihad now, we may be able to marginalise Islam along with Nazism and the Ku Klux Klan. If we encourage it, there will be no freedom or future for non-Moslems.

Posted by: islamophobic pride at October 29, 2005 4:54 AM

What a brave lady Ayaan Hirsi Ali is, and what wrong has she done? If only her life was an isolated case; the genital mutilation as a five-year-old girl, the imposed alienation and learned racism in the Muslim girls school, the arranged marriage, and the knowledge that if she was male she may have been a homicidal "martyr". Now, as a consequence of being a critic of Islam, she lives in fear of being assassinated by vile thugs in a modern Western country. Now is not the time for apologetics; now is the time for all good people to make a stand with Hirsi Ali against this monstrous ideology.

Posted by: islamophobic pride at October 29, 2005 4:59 AM

"Why is she not brought, well-guarded, to make speeches in Washington, to testify before Congress, to be caught on the evening news?"
-- posted by Hugh

Great idea. The riots that would ensue in Detroit, Paterson, and Jersey City would do a good lot to get the anti-Dhimmitude ball rolling, finally, after sitting still next to the out-of-bounds line for years now.

Ok, ok, maybe the ball has been blown towards the field-of-play a bit thanks to Robt. Spencer's relentless radio interviewing, but we need a celebrity apostate like Hirsi to get the ball rolling now.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 29, 2005 7:57 AM

tokyobk:

Isnt ask-imam just a great fount of insight? I have been having heaps of fun trawling thru the muffty's fatwas - it gives you a deeper insight into the warped version of reason which operates in islam.

I feel its safer to visit here first though...

Posted by: thomas ato at October 29, 2005 9:57 AM

RE: Who better to get the attention of Bush, Rice, and all those Congressmen and generals? Who better to be interviewed on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CNN?

I recommend "The CIA AT WAR: Inside The Secret Campaign Against Terror" by Ronald Kessler. It is an eye opener, our government is not as inept as you keep eluding to.

Posted by: learjet0450 at October 29, 2005 9:26 PM

I recommend "The CIA AT WAR: Inside The Secret Campaign Against Terror" by Ronald Kessler. It is an eye opener, our government is not as inept as you keep eluding to.

Lets hope so, I too am not naive to the point of thinking there arent a great many operations occurring that you and I will never know about.

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at October 30, 2005 11:32 AM

Is "the problem" Islam itself... Or is ignoring Islam and refusing to consider it as the culprit in causing the mayhem, destruction, and fascism "the problem..." This epitomizes the major quandry for the West...

There's two things going on here at the same time, a problem, and the reaction to the problem.
You cant fix the problem unless you first have a reaction to it. One main reason Islam cant be 'fixed' is because the problem and the reaction to it, are both insane. The entire subject is insane. Insanity never 'fixes' itself.
Thats why Islam cant reform and there really is no such thing as a moderate. Moderation is a sign of sanity, thats why you can never have a true moderate in Islam. There are only three things you can do with the truly insane, cure them, lock them up, or kill them. We are not going to 'cure' them, I'm not for killing all of them, but locking up, by means of discrediting, isolating, possibly evicting, might be a sane way of dealing with this very insane situation.
The one thing I know for sure, throwing more insanity, money and dhimmitudenals into the pot is bound to make things worse...much worse...

Posted by: duh_swami at October 30, 2005 12:30 PM

Islamophobic Pride,

Regarding the extreme political incorrectness of Islam, you're right on target. The mainstream media still have not seemed to have clued into this, or perhaps are just afraid to address it for fear that their news stations might be bombed.

With regard to your moniker (containing "Islamophobic"), as you are probably aware, a phobia is defined generally as an irrational or disproportionate fear that is maladaptive. Here's the widely accepted definition for "phobia" in psychology and psychiatry:

"...the fear must be persistent and intense, there must be a compelling need to flee or avoid the phobic object or situation and the fear must be irrational and not based on sound judgement."
The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology, 2nd ed., (1995), written by Arthur S. Reber. Penguin Books, Toronto.

But of course, there is nothing irrational about being concerned and healthfully fearful of Islam. Being fearful and concerned about it should, with planning and fair judgement, lead to actions that are very adaptive in protecting our lives and our civilization. It is based on sound judgement. Ergo, you're not Islamophobic.

Still, I like your moniker, because it mocks the superficiality and the hypocrisy of many of Islam's apologists who throw the term "Islamophobic" around so readily. All the while, most (though not all) of the apologists remain silent and ineffective in stopping those whom they claim are "distorting" their religion. It seems to me that the apologists in question (and for that matter the hard-core Islamists) have a fear of critics, a fear which is in fact disproportionate, irrational, and maladaptive with respect to the ultimate health and well-being of not only non-Muslims, but of secular or "moderate" Muslims everywhere. This critic-phobia was initiated by none other than Mohammad himself when he began ordering the assassinations of the critical poets. (Those who "malign" Allah, the prophet, or Muslims, as the Koran states, will be cursed in this world and in the hereafter, and "alarmists" will be slain wherever they are found (33:57-61)).

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2005 4:38 PM

Hugh,
Good point. Hirsi Ali and her story could be good strong medicine indeed if she reached the American mainstream media. She was here in Canada for a talk in August, with regard to the "Sharia" issue in Ontario. I think the media coverage of her visit in Canada helped expose further to the public the problems of Islamism. (Several other prominent women also put forward their strong opposition to Sharia). But there would be an impact of much greater proportions if she was covered in the more influential mainstream U.S. media, with its huge audience and world-wide distribution.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2005 4:55 PM

thanx 4 that, Archimedes, you are obviously a person of some principle.....
I confess to using a modicum of irony in my choice of moniker; nevertheless I just can't think of a word that means "rational fear of Islam based on sound judgement".

Posted by: islamophobic pride at October 31, 2005 1:57 AM

Just thought of one : "Hirsialistic"

Posted by: islamophobic pride at October 31, 2005 2:15 AM