Hmmmmm. So are we finally witnessing the tip of the meltdown iceberg? Whatever US opinions on France and us JWer opinions on french dhimmitude, chances are france is where the next renessaince to define Europe's soul will begin. And here's to hoping Sarkozy will do whatever it takes to uphold the law...

Posted by: voletti at October 30, 2005 7:17 AM

Sarkozy has not gone far enough in his own understanding of Islam, of the immutability of the texts (so no "reformation" is possible), of the fact that Infidels have no way to detect the real "moderate" from the feiging one, that even the "moderate" Muslim precisely because of his outward affability and seeming reasonableness may help promote the Jihad by confusing Infidels, or delaying their own thorough comprehension of the matter, and that finally, any "moderate" can metamorphose into an "immoderate" Muslim or for that matter, have children or grandchildren who will, out of all sorts of impulses, reasons, setbacks -- revert to the real, full-bodied Islam that remains a permanent menace to world civilization.

Sarkozy continues to speak as if he still believes in government-funded mosques instead of mosques that get no government funding, and are not permitted to get Saudi or other outside funding, and that are strictly monitored and closed if found to contain false papers, explosives, and hate-Infidel propaganda, or to preach hatred of the Infidels. And what is Islam without the strict division of the world between Believer and Infidel, and the hostility, or even murderous hatred, the former must necessarily have for the latter?

Posted by: Hugh at October 30, 2005 7:50 AM

The French are very aware of the storm on the horizon. Unfortunately, they still prefer to blame everything on George Bush and the cowboy Americans.

In fact each European country is hoping the social meltdown destroys their neighbour first. Only when the neighbouring country goes down in flames will the elites accept it is time to commit the worst possible secular sin and discriminate against the people who would destroy us. Some much for the European Union! In ten years time everyone will consider moving to Poland.

Posted by: 1630r at October 30, 2005 8:38 AM

"Some much for the European Union!"
-- posted by 1630r

I admit to taking pleasure at seeing the EU going up in flames right out of the gate.

The EU is the modern prototype for everything anti-individual, anti-capitalist, anti-democratic.

Intended by the socialists as a precursor to World Government, the EU wants to impose a bureaucratic dictatorsihp via central olympian authority, mega-government, forced wealth distribution, and the primacy of regulatory committees over independent decision-making (did you know "soviet" originally meant "committee" in Russian?).

How ironic that the EU, still in its infancy, has soiled its pants and flopped because of its stupid handling of the one ideology that actually *could* attain a world government: Islam.

The total, unmitigated, historic disaster of European Civilization's collapse and end will be counterposed against somewhat less dreadful Islamo-political scenarios in North America, Austriala/New Zealand, Southeast Asian, and East Asian regions.

My prediction: Over the next 50 years, the EU will indeed serve its intended purpose as a precursor. It will gradually transform into a self-proclaimed Islamo-Centric organization with an entirely reshuffled set of social classes. The Islamo-EU will stand as the blueprint for how the remaining major regions in Dar al Harb should be subjugated.

Flush with success, the clerics -- or the Caliph, if one has been installed by then -- will proclaim the goal of global Dar al Islam and total World Sharia by the year 2100.

PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH

In ten years time everyone will consider moving to Poland.
-- posted by 1630r

Has Ireland loaded up on the Moslems? Please answer no.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 30, 2005 9:27 AM

"Has Ireland loaded up on the Moslems? Please answer no."

Yes. My friend's family from the Sinn Fein supporting heartlands are now complaining about the muslims/immigrants. The sweet irony is Sinn Fein were/are loyal backers of the Palis.

I think the Irish got tough on the immigrant women who booked a flight to Dublin when they were 8 months pregnant and Ireland was still handing out passports to any child born there.

Posted by: 1630r at October 30, 2005 9:58 AM

My predictions for the EU are not as dire, I do see changes coming but not necessarily an arab or muslim takeover, in any real form.

The easter bloc countries, especially in the south, have had too much negative contact with the muslims (turks) to allow muslim communities to flourish with any strength. That is where the real hope for resistance lies.

As far as the continental EU countries, something big is going to happen to set the non-muslim populations on the warpath. Some young, arab fool is going to decide to blow up a few people, the police will overreact and piss the rest of the arabs off who will respond in kind.

This will lead to a snowball effect of attacks, official reactions, jailings, deportments and eventually AQ moves in to make their presence known.

A big bomb or set of bombs go off, ala Spain, and the path to some sort of cleansing begins. Euro citizens see what is happening, its just that their societies arent build to respond effectively, but that doesnt mean they cant adapt.

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at October 30, 2005 9:58 AM

I posted this message on Hugh's essay "What I saw on Mulberry street" But I think its very pertinent what is happening in Paris right now.

They can keep Tracy Emin’s shit and I will personally give the Mohammadans the petrol to burn her works.

But I wouldn’t write off Europe quite yet. I agree current demographics, particularly in France and the Netherlands are scary. (They and my son keep me up at night) I believe it was Gille Keppel or Oliver Roy who was quoted in the quarterly “National Interest” that France’s population will be half-Muslim by mid-century if current Muslim growth rates and immigration continue unabated.
Sooner or later, most infidels will cotton onto these figures and do something about it. Will it mean some European countries turning Fascist? Perhaps, although I don’t think we will be seeing the re-opening of Sobibor or Treblinka. A military coup in France is not a so far-fetched scenario given the French military’s propensity in the past to enter politics during national emergencies. The French military is still a very conservative and Catholic institution and it will become increasingly more so as it abandons conscription and becomes more professional. Here are a few cases which show where our Gallic friends sympathies lie: NATO’s bombing offensive against Yugoslavia, and the leaked story about a French senior officer forwarding secrets to the Yugoslav military. Or when French troops stood idly by when Serbs assassinated Bosnia’s deputy premier in Sarajevo, while he was under French protection. (A truly odious act which outraged nearby Brit soldiers, but would the French troops allowed this to happen if their charge was a Serb, I doubt it.) I also recall Christopher Jenning's hilarious account of his time in the Foreign Legion,(Mouthfull of Rocks) Apperently during Christmas celebrations in Corsica(a real piss up in the Legion) some Arab legionaires were forced to participate in the Nativity play. I think they were goatherds and one played Mary. This would never happen in the army units of the Anglosphere.

More worryingly though, there are quite a few beurs (North Africans) in its ranks. I have a photo of a French Marine in Kosovo with Allahu Akbar scrawled across the front of his helmet, and if memory serves, I recall Serb civilians complaining about the number of Arabs in the French units stationed in that Serb province. It will be interesting to see what side these troops choose when the army is ordered into the Muslim banlieue. I certainly don’t relish Europe’s future, it’s going t be a real shit shower; a lot of innocents are going to die. It’s too bad that the only people discussing this future threat are Le Pen’s National Front or Nick Griffin’s BNP. Interesting times ahead, certainly for the cultural anthropologists.

Posted by: spencerd at October 30, 2005 10:27 AM

It's so sad to hear that Ireland has also decided on suicide. Ireland should have its stomach pumped and drop of of the EU asap.

Poland it is, then.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

"This will lead to a snowball effect of attacks, official reactions, jailings, deportments and eventually AQ moves in to make their presence known."
-- posted by Dead Infidel Walking

And every step along the way, millions of Moslem Matrons will be on their hands and knees taking it doggie-style from agitated Moslem Men out-breeding their infidel country-mates ten to one.

It's only a matter of demographic time, which has accelerated its pace over the past century.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 30, 2005 10:29 AM

I note in the Reuters piece no mentioin of the ethnicity or religious background of the rioters. Is this simply MSM PC?

Posted by: erice at October 30, 2005 11:16 AM

Chaz MarteL 732 writes:
"I admit to taking pleasure at seeing the EU going up in flames right out of the gate."

Understandable, but I take no pleasure in watching Europe, even France, go through this.

Please is there a Frenchman (or woman :) reading
here who can tell me that people in France are
waking up? That all hope is not lost?

Posted by: American at October 30, 2005 11:25 AM

I agree that demographics dont seem to be going well for non-muslim euros, but there are quite a few variables which we simply cant know.

There could be mass disease, mass deportments, mass killings, mass conversions, all of the above...its impossible to say what will happen when nations are pushed to the wall. Sounds medieval but it may take regressive tactics to win this fight, and I wouldnt put them into the realm of impossibility.

At this point anything could happen, there is no more divisive topic than religion, and religion makes people do the unthinkable sometimes. Civil war is on the horizon and I still put my money on the non-muslims.

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at October 30, 2005 11:51 AM

In ten years time everyone will consider moving to Poland.

Or Corsica. You don't mess with the Corsicans.

http://meionline.com/backcover/332.shtml

Posted by: Effractor at October 30, 2005 11:53 AM

Chaz,

Europeans may be annoying in their assumptions of superiority.

But to wish them into a life or death struggle?

WAY out of proportion to the offense.

Much better for them to wake up, and join us in dealing with this worldwide threat.

Posted by: treehugger at October 30, 2005 11:54 AM

Agreed with Treehugger. Let's keep the life-and-death struggle strictly to Ideaology- and hope that the elitists in the US, Australia and Canada see the lesson before they take us any farther down the same road.

Posted by: Gary at October 30, 2005 12:02 PM

American
I think a lot of people in France are aware of the danger. If you understand French, go to:

http://www.france-echos.com/

There is also a translation facility, to get the gist of it.

Posted by: Silvester at October 30, 2005 12:17 PM

"But to wish them into a life or death struggle?"
-- posted by treehugger

I wish them no such thing. They're suffering by their stupidity; it's hard for us Americans of european descent to witness our forebears -- like drunken missionaries who have stumbled into a snakepit -- systematiclally destroying themselves.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

The life or death component is being supplied by the EuroMoslems, who bring their Korans, Hadiths, Sira, Tarikh, and Islamic Code. Oh, and their Imams too.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at October 30, 2005 12:25 PM

But they HAD to riot and destroy property, they want peace and Justice at any cost.

We just don't undestand them or can feel their pain from the racism and oppression by white people.
Oops , wait a minute , these were non-white cultures clashing .

Forget everything , and Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 30, 2005 1:41 PM

It seems now asif the insurgency in France is starting, and we are witnessing the beginnings of civil war. What would the likes of Napoleon, Joan of Arc, Lafayette, Charles Martel, Jean Moulin and Charles de Gaulle think if they could come back to life and see France, particularly cities like Paris and Marseille as it is today, and I certainly have no wish to see the end of French culture, not in my lifetime, not ever.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at October 30, 2005 2:18 PM

Hi all, just watched TF1, Sarkozy was on, he was in quite a direct frame of mind, he made it quite clear that the youths were not being chased by police.

He said that the rioting was unacceptable. He also took a swipe at his predecessors for not doing something about these no-go areas, he will not let this continue.

He said about Islam that the Imams had to use French, he then backed it up by saying that if people respect our laws then France will help them, if not, then they have no future in France.

Tonight will be interesting I think...

Posted by: Daffersd at October 30, 2005 2:41 PM

Obviously things are no longer so quiet in Clichy as they were in Henry Miller's day.

Daffersd, greetings, and I hope you are not living in an interesting area.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at October 30, 2005 4:07 PM

Granny, got some Muslims near me of the non-threatneing type, but well away from the rough areas. Where I live is very quiet, I hope it stays that way. All the best.

Posted by: Daffersd at October 30, 2005 5:08 PM

The French have dealth with Muslim invasions in the past. During the Muslim conquests into Spain in the 9th -14th century, Muslims sought to conquer France, however, the Muslim invasion was defeated outside Poitiers and Muslims were pushed out of France.

Today, the French are facing a new wave of Muslim immigrants that will surely create more tensions in the approaching years.

The anti-Christian and anti-Jewish atmosphere that is present in France today is partly caused by the Muslims. For example, the rise of anti-semitism attitudes by French Muslims has resulted in some Jewish cemetaries and synagogues being vandalized. Who was responsible? Not the ghost of Adolf Hitler. It was the French Muslims.

Islam has little tolerance for non-Muslims.
Read what is written about the Jews:

Bukhari-Vol IV no 524. pg 333
The prophet said " a group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and transformed into rats, for if you put the milk of she camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it."

The prophet obviously has low standards for viewing Jews. On the same token, the prophet also had low standards for viewing Christians. Perhaps that explains why Muslim socieities are so anti-Christian and anti-semitic. How can they not be? Muslims only have to look towards their prophet for inspiration to hate Christians and Jews.

The French should be very concerned about the presence of Muslims in their country. If the Islamic wave continues, Islamic influence will change the very fabric of French society and undermine the Judeo-Christian heritage that has defined and shaped French culture.

Posted by: Johnathan at October 30, 2005 6:22 PM

The EU is the modern prototype for everything anti-individual, anti-capitalist, anti-democratic.

Intended by the socialists as a precursor to World Government, the EU wants to impose a bureaucratic dictatorsihp via central olympian authority, posted by Chaz Martel

Actually it is Capitalist,capitalism, the promise of new markets for products, cheap labor and stock market prices that are driving the E.U..

Open borders, reduced costs of production (cheap labor from Eastern Europe, immigrants (legal and illegal) and of course Turkey and the Arab countries. Actually has nothing to do with socialists, and last I looked the most vocal critics (and who have died and are under threat of Islamic Violence) are actually European Leftists, like Orianna Fallaci (a former communist), Pym Fortuyn (a Marxist homosexual), Ayan Hirsi Ali, an atheist, Van Gogh, a leftist atheist.

Posted by: Nariz at October 30, 2005 6:34 PM

Southern France, I believe, suffered a long spate of "cafe bombings" perpetrated by Muslims in the 1960s. Were there not also a couple of bombs in Paris in the 70s and/or 80s set by Muslims?

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at October 30, 2005 8:37 PM

last I looked the most vocal critics (and who have died and are under threat of Islamic Violence) are actually European Leftists, like Orianna Fallaci (a former communist), Pym Fortuyn (a Marxist homosexual), Ayan Hirsi Ali, an atheist, Van Gogh, a leftist atheist.

Problem is that these Leftists are a tiny minority among European Leftists, and the vast majority of European Leftists are quick to marginalize and ostracize their brave and perspicacious brethren with the "racist" and "Islamophobe" labels. The Fallacis, Fortuyns, Alis and Van Goghs are odd exceptions, not representatives, of Leftism.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at October 30, 2005 8:40 PM

"Hi all, just watched TF1, Sarkozy was on, he was in quite a direct frame of mind, he made it quite clear that the youths were not being chased by police.

He said that the rioting was unacceptable. He also took a swipe at his predecessors for not doing something about these no-go areas, he will not let this continue."

And what if the police WERE chasing the "youths?" I don't accept ANY pretext the Muslim filth concocts to act on his hair trigger rage... How dare these vermin come into the West, from the most slovenly, filth strewn hell holes on earth -- only to push their nightmare Islamicist supremacy down our throats --

We'll see if the French are up to the task of grappling with the Muslim menace -- Their track record is deplorable -- I'm willing to wager they'll make it far worse than they already have done through some arrogant French screwups....

I'd hate to see Europe go further down the sewer -- for two reasons -- and neither involves a love for the fantasist filth that inhabits it's land mass --

1. Too many Americans died in WW1 and WW2 yanking their cowardly asses out of the fires of German nationalism and Nazism...

2. The calculus to save Europe from its own stupidity in the 20th century boiled down to a simple equation -- If they were overrun -- we'd lose our buffer-- Better that they Nuke Paris, Nuke Berlin, than NYC or Los Angeles....

Sadly the smug European has let the sewer ruin his nest (again -- will the never learn? ) And this time there isn't much the US can do to save them... It's up to them to rise to the challenge, or be destroyed.... I don't believe they're up to it -- They're going down this time for sure... The question now is, what do we do to prepare for this bad turn of events?

I say, minimize our exposure to the Muslim menace. Deport. Detain. Alienate. Make them understand they're not welcome here. Encourage them to go to Canada. Encourage them to go to Germany, France... Let them go to a place that also hates America -- let them go to a place that's too cowardly to repel thieir repellant culture --

Europe has squandered the chances we offered it after saving it from oblivion in WW1, WW2, and the Cold War... In fact, in a keeping with the tendency of the depraved and perverted, Europe has largely embraced the selfsame communistic leftist blarney that we saved them from when we stood up to the Soviets. They didn't defend themselves then.... And after the fall of Communism, they went ahead and embraced Socialism and Anti-Americanism anyway... Go figure...

What's with those guys over there...?

Posted by: jsla at October 30, 2005 8:54 PM

"In ten years time everyone will consider moving to Poland.Or Corsica. You don't mess with the Corsicans.

http://meionline.com/backcover/332.shtml

Boy. I think I'm in love. Somebody is standing up to the deluge...

Around 8% of Corsica’s 260,000 inhabitants are of North African origin. Some reports estimate that 200 families have left the island as a result of such hostility, mainly heading for mainland France. In 2004, some 40 racist attacks were reported to the authorities in Corsica. But Corsican commentators strongly dispute a report written for the Interior Ministry which claimed almost half the racist incidents reported throughout France last year were in Corsica.

In Ajaccio, the young sons of Moroccan and Tunisian immigrants explain that they observe a self-imposed curfew: “You won’t find any Arabs on the street after 6pm.” Fellow school students call them “Arabache” (a vague insult which the French press translates as “Dirty Arab”). If you answer back you will only get hit, and sometimes you get hit anyway, explains 15-year-old Hadi Hediri. Portuguese immigrants’ kids come in for similar insults, he adds. Sometimes the insults draw on vivid turns of phrase which local people say are traditionally Corsican. Aziz Doudouche, 14, is no longer surprised when he hears “Pack your bags!” or “Get your coffin ready!”

Posted by: Kemaste at October 30, 2005 9:01 PM

ONce again, Nariz tries to put forth the complete falsehoold that most of the opposition to Islam in Europe is coming form Leftists. This simply isn't true.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an MP with a center-right party in Holland. She LEFT her former Marxist party because it was too pro-Islam.

Geert Wilders is center-right (although constantly called "far right" by the Leftist European media)

Oriana Fallaci is a FORMER communist who switched right.

Pym Fortuyn was a FORMER Marxist who later embraced liberal economics and admired Margaret Thatcher.

The main opposition to Islam in Britain comes from the Telegraph, the main CONSERVATIVE news daily in that country, and the SPECTATOR, another conservative news magazine.

Why do you keep claiming the above people are leftists? Being an athiest doesn't make one a leftist -- the pro-capitalist and anti-communist writer Ayn Rand was one.

Nariz you make good points about Islam but your continued dishonesty in this one area makes me distrust you as much as I distrust an Islamist.

Posted by: Suzan at October 30, 2005 9:36 PM

erice;

Exactly. My first reaction to the first sentance, "French youths?"

Jsla;

"Let them go to Canada.."

No, no, no, my friend. Far too many miles of a border that isn't anything more tham a trimmed swath through the forest. I would feel their breath on my neck. Once the outward motion starts, I want momentum, I want an ocean crossed, I want sandals on the sand, I want them back in the al-hood. I want them to pick themselves up, brush the dust from their clothes, look around, and say "Awww shit!".

Posted by: t-ham at October 31, 2005 12:18 AM

Here is a good link...
http://www.mosquewatch.com/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 31, 2005 12:28 AM

Jsla, agree with you. These youths were killed by their own stupidity. Its almost like, "How dare the police chase these innocent Muslims..." I heard that it continued last night with cars set on fire and waste bins too.

But please bear in mind that the French elite have pride in their culture, as compared to the British elite who do not. I get the feeling that the penny has dropped in Europe and things are starting to move at last, but I could be wrong.

One of the youths is claiming that the police said something like "They have gone into the sub-station, they will kill themselves in there." and walked off.

The Muslims are complaining that the police should have warned them, but the one who allegedly overheard that remark could have warned them. Another Darwin award for these two I think...

Posted by: Daffersd at October 31, 2005 3:04 AM

Suzan

Thanks for pulling him / her up again.

Yet another example of him / her selling & promoting his / her left wing politics. Seems more & more people with left wing agenda's to promote are coming here, I guess thats why I am going elsewhere alot more.

Best regards
Albion

Posted by: albion at October 31, 2005 4:41 AM

Suzan~ one thing I noticed about your post- these are all people who were steeped in Leftist thought, who have made the switch.... in my Op they had a very good training ground, for they can see much more clearly the danger- just as David Horowitz and Mr. Spencer do. (not the Mr. Spencer was a leftist, to my knowledge...)

nariz is just protecting his own. He knows the longer islam is a threat, the less likely his kind of thinking will prevail in this world. We'll see another 'Greatest Generation' and illiberal thinking will be buried for another 40 years- or maybe permanently.

Posted by: Gary at October 31, 2005 6:04 AM

Most of us knew many years ago that the social engineering of trying to mix up races wouldn't work, simply because there are bigots in ALL races, and it has never worked in history.
Yes some would intermarry, but of course most people would stick to marrying their own kind, as we would in their country. Thus now, instead of having people living under the same rules, same god, same traditions, we bring in many different races with totally different ideas, and as they multiply it causes the original inhabitants to move out, causing tensions...
First of all there will be gang wars, then eventually the new inhabitants will multiply enough to be able to have the numbers to form their own armed forces. Who will know and who will stop them......
I am angry on our world leaders for pushing this unsuccessful social engineering on us, we the people didn't have any say in it at all, and now we the people have to reap the consequences...
Even though there are many wonderful things that come from different nations, Multiculturalism has never and will never work... We have effectively created a Europe type situation here in Australia. We could end up by having borders between different areas of people,,,. Even now it is dangerous to go into certain areas, and what is the use anyway, they don't have English written or spoken anywhere. Our stupid state governments have allowed them to have their own language instead of English. Mr Hawkie baby encouraged the different nations to have their own leaders.. Nice thought, but what power could that leader eventually have on these people.

Posted by: Gaye at October 31, 2005 8:10 AM

A poster above attributed Europe's present condition to the stupidity of her people. Not so. It is due, in large measure, to the anti-semetism, greed, and corruption of many of her leaders 30-40 years ago. Please read Bat Ye'or's Eurabia.

Posted by: NonProphet16 at October 31, 2005 12:05 PM

NonProphet16, whereas I think that there is a large segment of the population who are remarkably stupid, I agree with you that the main fault is with our leaders, you just don't expect ones leaders to be naive to the point of utter stupidity.

Posted by: Daffersd at October 31, 2005 12:19 PM

> American at October 30, 2005 11:25 AM
> Please is there a Frenchman (or woman :)
> reading here who can tell me that people
> in France are waking up?
> That all hope is not lost?

A growing number of french people are waking up !
see :
http://www.france-echos.com/
http://www.forum-resistance.net/
http://www.sosfrance.com/forum/

A few politicians are more and more telling the truth :
http://www.mpf-villiers.com/
http://www.nda2007.fr/

There is a "little" hope ...

Posted by: L.Leclerc at October 31, 2005 9:38 PM

Abandonnez l'espoir, ceux qui entrent dans la France...

Not sure of my translation -- my french is tres horrible!

Posted by: jsla at November 1, 2005 4:08 PM