This photos are still disturbing, even if it only part of a perverted Evel Knivel show, rather than an amputation. The idea that anyone would put a child up to such "tricks" or magic or whatever it was, demonstrates a lack of sane parenting, as well as system of government that tolerates the widespread abuse, torture and murder of women and children and minorities. Sharia equals sick and twisted.

Posted by: maryrose at November 2, 2005 5:35 PM

I’m glad this has been cleared up.

Maryrose you are right, the pictures are still disturbing. I'm sure you also found the pics of children buried under Rubble in the Iranian Earthquake distressing.

Anyone willing to apologise (*looking for the one that wanted my head to blow up*)

Posted by: ia786 at November 2, 2005 6:18 PM

I'm sure you also found the pics of children buried under Rubble in the Iranian Earthquake distressing.
Absolutely, it is always awful to see little kids in pain. We are mothers and fathers and grandmothers and grandfathers here, we do not take pleasure from someone else's sorrow.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 2, 2005 6:29 PM

Spencer's consistent honesty hardly raises a comment here. That's a comment that shakes the known world.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 2, 2005 6:37 PM

Kudos to dhimmiwatch for correcting the error.

Now that the old link has been removed, I'll resubmit these.

Further information on hand amputations/dismemberment under sharia law can be found at James Arlandson's Links,
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/top_ten_sharia.htm
(scroll down to numbers 7, 6, and 8)

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/hands_off.htm
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/crucify.htm

Posted by: Archimedes at November 2, 2005 9:46 PM

ia786,

I hate to be a nag, but...

Back on Oct. 27, (and on the now-deleted thread from yesterday), you failed to respond to my simple morality quiz. Perhaps with it being such a long thread, and with all the commotion, you missed it. Here’s another opportunity for you.

Here are just four morality-testing questions. What I am asking of you is to indicate whether you morally accept or reject what is described in the verse(s) from the Koran or reports from the Hadith. To be fair, I'll commit to my own moral opinion of the verse(s) or report(s) too.

1. How Mohammad Dealt With Critics.
37:34 Lo! thus deal We with the guilty.
37:35 For when it was said unto them, There is no God save Allah, they were scornful
37:36 And said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?
37:37 Nay, but he brought the Truth, and he confirmed those sent (before him).
37:38 Lo! (now) verily ye taste the painful doom -
37:39 Ye are requited naught save what ye did -
37:40 Save single-minded slaves of Allah

Here we see that Mohammad condemned critics to a painful doom. I guess he didn't have a good counter-argument for his critics. Otherwise, instead of making angry childish threats, Mohammad would have produced a brilliant rebuttal to be immortalized in the Holy Koran. Why can't he show them that his Allah is better than their gods? Why would they judge the prophet to be a "mad poet"? What did he then do about these critics? He had many of them assassinated, see http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html

My first question concerns just one of those critics, a very elderly man named Abu Afak. Do you morally approve of Mohammad's ordered assassination of Abu Afak?

My answer: I unequivocably condemn and reject Mohammad's barbaric actions in having that critic put to death.
Your answer: ?

2. Mohammad's Final Policy Toward the Jewish People.

A report narrated by a man named Muslim from Abu Hurayrah, the prophet said:

"The hour (of the Day of Judgement) will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say 'Oh Muslim, O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!' -except for the gharqad (bow thorn), for it is one of the trees of the Jews."
(Reported by Muslim, 2922). This passage was also quoted by Osama bin Laden, May 28, 1998, in an interview with John Bell of ABC News.

Also from the Hadith:
Book 19, Number 4366:
Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:
"Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: 'I will expel the Jews and Christians from the ARABIAN PENINSULA and will not leave any but Muslims.'"

My answer: I unequivocably condemn and reject Mohammad's vicious policy of hate and genocide against the Jews and Christians.
Your answer: ?

3. Mohammad's Ultimate Policy Toward Disbelievers.
The worst possible sin is disbelief in or denial of Allah 10:17, 11:18-19, 18:15, 32:22. Disbelief or turning away from Allah is a persecution worse than warfare (2:217) or slaughter (2:191). The worst thing a person can possibly do in this world is to disbelieve in Allah. (In excess of 200 separate verses condemn disbelievers to hell-fire). Nowhere does the Koran say that disbelievers should not be killed, except where there is a temporary strategic benefit to Islam to keep the disbelievers alive (e.g., as slaves to be bought or sold, or as taxed dhimmis, etc.). Disbelief is the crime. Killing disbelievers is not a crime at all. This is confirmed in secondary texts, e.g.,

"Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us..." Tabari IX:69.

It is well-known that many verses in the Koran order the killing of various kinds of disbelievers (4:89-91, 9:41, 9:5, 61:11, etc.). Believers must honour their duty to Allah and fight the disbelievers in battle, or else they'll be punished in hell (2:216, 8:15-16, 9:39).
My answer: I unequivocably condemn and reject Mohammad's vicious policy of hatred and murder.
Your answer: ?

4. Mohammad's Conduct as a Husband.

Wife beater:

(Trans., Shakir). 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
(Note, do not be fooled by Yusufali's translation, which says beat (lightly); "lightly" is purely an addition of Yusufali).

Pedophile and violent abuser:

Marriageable age in some Islamic countries for females is nine years of age. This follows Mohammad's pedophillic example, because the age at which he "consummated" his marriage with Ayesha was 9. (He married her when he was in his fifties and when she was 6; he fantasized about her when she was five).

Ayesha said "I have not seen anyone suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!"
Bukhari. Note: The "green" adjective is in reference to the bruising from the beatings.

Ayesha said: "He (Muhammad) struck me (Aisha) on the chest which caused me pain." Muslim, no. 2127. Mohammad's young wife Ayesha tells of how the prophet struck her hard enough to cause pain (and an enduring memory of the event).

My answer: I unequivocably condemn this barbaric pedophile maniac's actions.
Your answer: ?

------------------------------------
I will await your answers.

As I said in the previous thread, the Koran itself says that Mohammad sinned (Allah forgives Mohammad's past and future sins, 48:1-3). If the Koran says it, so can you.

Posted by: Archimedes at November 2, 2005 10:15 PM

Never fear. Suspecting this might happen, I saved kj's magnificent post to ia786 to insert next time he starts his America-bashing-Nazi-Hiroshima-you-are-all-sodomites crap. kj, you made my day and I was forced out of pure glee to read it OUT LOUD to several different people. You were magnificent.

Posted by: CGW at November 3, 2005 6:57 AM

CGW - could you post the response? Like a troll here says he does, I was battling islamofascists on another site and missed it. Or maybe it was Martians. In either event, I'd like to see that.

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

Posted by: Geoff at November 3, 2005 8:09 AM

OT

IA

What is the difference between being British and being English?

Mmm. Exposed yourself well & truly there.

How long have you lived here IA?

Such an inept question!

You posted:

"Another thing, how much do Brown and Black people make up of the total UK population. It is very low, I can tell you that. Your views are not rational."

What the hell has this to do with anything I have written?

As much as you would like me to be an intellectual omeaba that judges a person on their skin colour I am patently & clearly not that dude.

English people can be many different colours & races - its your attitude & loyalty to the Nation that is important.

An example of me:

Ever since the Ireland England game a few months back when they humiliated us, Ian Wrights reaction after the match was exactly my own. The day after that match I & several others started a mini campaign to the FA to have him considered as the next England manager.

Ian Wright or Sven?

Give me the Englishmans choice - Ian Wright, everytime, because he is ENGLISH! Because he understands the Nation & is absolutely part of the Nation of England.

Do you understand that, or are you going to dismiss me as a racist again?

Its too easy to call people racist / bigot / fascist just to shut them up, a little more difficult to understand what they are truly saying. Don't stifle the debate by using 1980's terminal terminology, engage.

Posted by: albion at November 2, 2005 12:43 PM

I don't really care what you think of me IA, but a retraction to your fascist / bigot / racist clap trap would be appreciated.

Posted by: albion at November 3, 2005 8:13 AM

Beer be upon you, Prophet Geoff.

ia786 was doing his usual America-bashing and posted some links:

"God Bless America

http://www.albasrah.net/images/war_crimes/images/1_147151_1_6_jpg.gif

Posted by: ia786 at November 1, 2005 06:50 PM"

"The United Sodomites of America in action:

http://www.albasrah.net/images/war_crimes/images/000CF4B5-5FDD-1E7E-881A80C328EC0000_jpg.gif

Posted by: ia786 at November 1, 2005 06:52 PM"

along with his usual crap. I'll post kj's reply but I hope you can get to it quickly because it may be deleted. Let me know on this thread if you get to read it.

kj's reply:

"Ladies and gentlemen, for those of you that thought I was a troll, may I present: IA786.

Yes, IA we are the United Sodomites of America. We like having "non-Holy" sex, all of us. Especially married men and women... and STILL thousands of Muslims clamour and shove each other out of the way to get here, every day. Refer to the article about 10,000 Saudis coming here to "get an education." What do you think, that they couldn't just build a university in Saudi? LOL. They are coming here for FUN.

Muslims EVERYWHERE are trying to get out of the Sharia hellholes and into a secular, democratic, western society so they can drink alcohol, enjoy sodomy, wear tight clothes, and drink Coca-cola.

IT'S WHAT PEOPLE LIKE TO DO.

That's why the Mullahs of Iran HAVE to pick the candidates for President; otherwise the "Islamic Republic" would disappear.

As for your little picture, that could have very easily been a victim of Muslim terror in any Muslim nation: there are millions to chose from.

IA, just see what America can do (Iraq, Afghanistan, "palestine") FOR FUN and with less than a majority approval... imagine what we will do one day when Islam really hits us hard...poof! and Syria becomes a glass parking lot.... boom! and Iran becomes a toxic wasteland.... bang! and no one goes to Mecca for 10,000 YEARS.

Piss America off, and Islam will disappear. It won't matter that we lose the Saudi oil; we'll take it by force if necessary. It won't matter if the United Nothing disapproves; we don't care what they say anyway. It won't matter if you threaten to nuke Israel; we'd let all the Jews move here (after THEY nuke the f**k out of you.)

You cannot win a conventional war with America, that's why you turn to terror. We will only swallow so much of that too. Your side won on 9-11 only because an imbecile fool was in power that diverted us with Iraq.

You cannot win an arms race with America, the USSR already tried that they had waaaay more scientists, discipline, and natural resources that all of Islamdom.

Just keep kicking that sleeping giant... he'll wake up soon enough, and when he does, he and his buddies (at LEAST Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, England, South Korea, Israel, and Japan...maybe more, especially after the first Eurabian nation falls to Sharia) will come to your town to stomp the life out of anything that moves unless it's wearing a cross and can recite the Lord's Prayer.

We'll grease the treads of our tanks with your children. We'll strafe and firebomb you just like we did Dresden, or maybe like we did Hiroshima and Nagasake.

Don't look for Liberals in America to come crying for you... we can't even get our act together good enough to keep abortion legal.

KEEP TALKING SH*T... you'll find out for yourself soon enough how mean America can be. And when the dust settles, the American flag will have 75 stars on it and fly from every public buidling from Mauritania to Malaysia (except those in Egypt, Jordan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia... those'll all have the Star of David flag.)

And there won't be one single copy of the Queer'an left in the entire world.

And no one in the entire world will publicly claim to be a Muslim.

Now stick that up your Allah hole, sodomite.

Posted by: kj at November 1, 2005 09:40 PM"

followed by this:

"kj, I've been waiting for that. :)

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 1, 2005 09:45 PM"

Of course ia786 made an attempt to respond to kj, but it was, AS USUAL, weak and ineffectual.

Posted by: CGW at November 3, 2005 9:09 AM

Way Ta Go, KJ! *g* Mind if I copy that down?

Posted by: Gary at November 3, 2005 10:12 AM

ia:

Get this little point straight as well. There's an immense difference between suffering that results from natural events such as earthquakes, or even the unintented consequences of military actions and suffering that is the intended result of a barbaric penal code or acts of violence perpetrated against unarmed non-combatants.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 3, 2005 10:18 AM

kj:

As a fan of opera, that was definitely a response worthy of a hearty, "bravo".

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 3, 2005 12:35 PM

Bravo KJ to that one again, I fell off my chair when I read it yesterday.

Posted by: Shields221 at November 3, 2005 3:53 PM

kj,
No kudos from me. ia786 tried to push everyone's buttons with the "Sodomites" comment, and you produced exactly what he expected of you. ia786 dishonoured your country, but so did you with your comment about greasing the treads of the tanks with children. You could've taken the high road and defeated ia786's poor excuse for an argument, but instead you descended to his level. Next time kj, don't get sucked in.

Posted by: Archimedes at November 4, 2005 1:25 AM

Archimedes:

Get real. This is WAR we're talking about, and if you don't think such things - and worse - happen ad WILL happen you're hopelessly naive. kj spent a considerable amount of time in the Marine Corps and he KNOWS what war is. War is not PC, and kj could've described worse scenarios. I hope you're not too "offended" when all-out war gets here - and it will.

Posted by: CGW at November 4, 2005 7:29 AM

CGW,

Blessings and peace be upon you for your recognition of the Prophet and your posting of KJ's smackdown, which interested the Prophet greatly. Verily you shall be honoured in the religion of the Prophet and shall be an Imam. Know that Allah loves you and cares about you and treasures you - and will burn you with fire and torture after your co-religionsts brutally slay you if ever you should deviate from this most rigid and loving path. For Allah is Merciful, Kind!

(J/K mate)

Peace and beer be upon you all, lest you commit shirk, in which case you shall have doom and death and not fruit cup.

Prophet Geoff [bbum]

Posted by: Geoff at November 4, 2005 10:52 AM

Thank you Gary, Carolyn, etc.

***************************************

Archimides, you must think that you're pretty good to name yourself after Archimides. All my "opponents" here have said "bravo, well done" etc. So let me enjoy myself while I still can, okay?

Of course we don't grease tank treads with babies. But we can muster a ten-million man army is less than a year, and hapless warmongers like IA need to understand that... this is not a joke.

Remember how fast we turn America into a war machine during WW Two? All because Hirohito hit Pearl Harbor? Only diplomacy (and the fact that Bin Laden didn't actually TOPPLE the Towers, like he intended) has kept the sleeping giant asleep. When he finally is roused, he is going to be angry, and nothing--not diplomacy, not the UN, not NATO, NOTHING is going to calm him... except revenge.

You can bet your bottom dollar that there are plans already in place to call up a humongous fighting force if need be... we have football-field-sized warehouses under Virginia that are full of guns, bullets, tanks, MREs, tents, boots, etc... Remember, we just spent 50 years thinking that we might have to fight the USSR. Do you think all the supplies got thrown away? I somehow doubt it.

The next American nuke strike will make Hiroshima look like small potatoes, and if Islam hits us hard, that is exactly how we will respond. If Fearless Leader won't do anything, we'll elect someone that will. Muslims are not above hitting hospitals and schools (for the love of God, man... think of Beslan) and something like that in America, or a dirty nuke, will be the beginning of the end of a certain "religion of peace."

I'm a liberal and a veteran... the last thing I want to see is war and/or innocent people hurt collaterally. But with these red-eyed Jihadis, it seems inevitable. And the sooner it happens, the sooner we can start rebuilding.

************************************************

IA786 snidely remarks: I'm sure you also found the pics of children buried under Rubble in the Iranian Earthquake distressing.

First of all, IA, just imagine how the Iranians would laugh and backslap at pics of Israeli children buried in rubble. And remember how they laughed at the pictures of the US Marines buried in the rubble in Beirut.

Of course we did find the pictures distressing, that's why we sent aid. And the Israelis offered to send aid too, and the Iranians refused it, saying that they'd rather die than receive help from Israel.

Keep in mind that Israel has one of the best emergency response programs in the world, and some of the best search-and-recover-from-demolished-buildings programs in the world... for obvious reasons.

Hah... wouldn't it be funny if the Israelis actually got to save a few hundred trapped Iranians in the earthquake rubble, and then Iran told Israel that THEY should be grateful. No, really. You see, if Iran, Hezbollah, etc. weren't so intent upon destroying Israel, Israel wouldn't be so good at search-and-rescue, etc. It would be just like them.

AND I remember reading somewhere that Israel tried to send aid (blankets, food, bandaids, etc.) to the tsunami areas... and guess which area refused to accept the aid because the Israeli flag was painted on the boxes? (Hint: it was where they had a lot of mosques.)

AND it pays to keep this in mind, especially you IA786: the week the big quake hit Iran, one of the same magnitude hit the "sodomy capital of America” a.k.a. San Francisco. A couple of people died in Frisco, 40,000 died in Iran. (Not only because Bam was old, either… they said if the quake hit Tehran it would’ve killed a million people.)

Now can you see the difference between the United Sodomites of America and a Sharia hellhole? USA takes care of it’s citizens LIVES, Sharia hellhole takes care of people’s SOULS.

Iran has the money to develop nukes, and not enough money to enforce a decent building code. Just like Pakistan.

IA786, my best and most-sincere advice to you is this: get yourself to www.secularislam.org, www.faithfreedom.org, and www.apostatesofislam.org and give apostasy a chance. Sooner or later, you’ll have to admit that Islam is a personality cult centered on the lunatic ravings of a madman.

Posted by: kj at November 4, 2005 11:09 AM

CGW,

That's right, we're in a war. And I'm under no illusions to the contrary. I thank kj for his service (Kj, if you're reading this, I mean that, thank you). But to win this war at this time and in the years to come, we have to educate the general public about the nature of the threat. And we need to do this quickly and clearly.

The general public still thinks Islam is a religion of peace! Imagine a reader comes onto this site and sees kj's letter. That's not good; it's detrimental to the purpose of this website. People will be put off. Islamic apologists would have a field day with kj's post. CAIR would love to have kj’s post. General readers need to see people on our side taking the high road in defeating these Islamic apologists in the exchanges. We are the good guys, but we need to argue like we are the good guys too.

These exchanges are debates. You don't try to win a debate by threatening to nuke your opponent. Leave the vitriol for the people who fill up Robert Spencer's hate mail bag.

In a debate, your opponent puts up an argument, and you put up yours to contest it. And there is, as I said, an educational side to this. What are readers supposed to gain from ia786 calling us "Sodomites"--deliberately trying to push our buttons--and then kj responding by making threats about running over children with tanks? Kj would have only entertained people who were already clearly on his side (and who know he's not crazy). These postings are public. You've got to be able to reach out to people who don't yet understand the nature of the threat. You've got to be able to convince those who are not yet convinced. You've got to be able to win people over, not turn them away. You're naive, CGW, if you think kj's letter is going to convince anyone who needs convincing.

If you had read my post on the previous thread (the one that is now erased), you would have seen that I cited all kinds of atrocities committed by Islamic jihadists throughout history, including the slaughter of POW's and other non-combatants including women and children. Those atrocities are in accordance with Islamic holy war policy of kill, convert, or subdue. ia786 had no response to any of my posts, because I didn't leave him with anything. A reader seeing this site for the first time might never have even imagined that the jihadists have been committing atrocities on innocent people for the past 1400 years. (Remember, the average citizen still thinks that the terrorists are twisting and distorting the true peaceful Islam). They may be coming here to find out more. I try to educate people, and I value the posts from others who make a positive contribution to the goals of this site. I am educated by them.

Posted by: Archimedes at November 4, 2005 11:11 AM

kj,

You said:
"Archimides, you must think that you're pretty good to name yourself after Archimides. All my "opponents" here have said "bravo, well done" etc. So let me enjoy myself while I still can, okay?"

I used Archimedes because he is someone that I look up to. He is also someone who represents western ideals worth defending.

I'm sure you're a good guy kj, my criticism is of your previous post, which as you can see from my response, I don't think was helpful.

Your last post speaks to me directly and respectfully and therefore you have gained my respect in turn.

As for ia786, I'm still trying to get to do my morality quiz.

Posted by: Archimedes at November 4, 2005 11:21 AM

Archimedes:

I am not naive about convincing anyone of the Threat that we face. I just get tired of the doom-and-gloomers always predicting our demise and it was refreshing to see someone address an issue that many of us have thought about and believe - the POWER of AMERICA and the absolute inevitable triumph of Enlightened Western Civilization over primitive barbarity. kj's post was the shot in the arm that many of us have been needing, and I welcomed it. Even though so many are still unaware, the Truth is still the Truth, and it WILL be spoken sooner or later. You may think it's a little early, but I assure you that many of us do not.

I appreciate your points about debate and I in no way diminish your contribution, but frankly I think that kj's reply DID have an efect on ia786. And I want the muslim world to know what they're dealing with and to be very, very afraid.

Every once in awhile it doesn't hurt to threaten to kick a little ass - as we surely will do when the time comes.

Posted by: CGW at November 4, 2005 11:44 AM

CGW,
Thanks. Point taken. I will grant that kj's post would make the wild-eyed jihadists a bit weak in the knees!

Posted by: Archimedes at November 4, 2005 11:55 AM

If Archimedes or KJ imagine for a moment that their posts countering Ia786 yield much benefit to this site, I'd say 'think again...' I have responded once or twice to Ia786 / KT, and quickly took note that they completely avoided dealing with posts for which they have no counter, or simply continued repeating unsubstantiated accusations and distortions... The purpose of their posts is solely designed to take the threads off topic and divert posters into cul de sacs of non-reason and non-debate -- Their purpose is to cause chaos at this site, and dilute its impact by creating false tempests, false comparisons, false constructs, and false debates.

Their posts perhaps serve some purpose in displaying in situ examples of Muslim deception at work, or the febrile mindset of the Islamic thrall... But I think the endless posts and counterposts only serve to degrade...

I agree with Archimides in this regard though -- stooping into the sewer to meet Ia786 at his level can only lend comfort to the Muslim sewage that yearns for pretexts to prove that their institutionalized hatreds are justified... The agent provocateurs Ia786/KT are clapping when the threads become littered with their incendiary bomb-bursts -- their intellectual jihad yields results when this happens... A think the managers of this site should seriously consider banning them, as their purpose is solely designed to harm and degrade this site, nothing more...

That's my two cents -- for what it's worth...

Posted by: jsla at November 4, 2005 12:33 PM

jsla,
You're right. It's obvious by now that ia786 is just trying to disrupt things. He's making minimal investment of thought and just cranking out as much verbiage as he can, without being genuinely responsive. I figure there's two basic options: (1) each time he posts, ignore him, or (2) if it is advantageous, slap up the embarrassingly ugly facts about Mohammad or Islam. Option 2 at leasts puts up information that new readers can learn. But option 1 might be best most of the time so that threads don't get too disrupted.

Posted by: Archimedes at November 4, 2005 1:48 PM