Although it would be terribly politically incorrect to do this, it would be a more useful exercise to do a breakdown of the unemployment stats re: country of origin than to simply compare it to unemployment numbers for "non-immigrants" which should include the children of immigrants who are old enough (and presumably registered as opposed to illegals off the radar)to be counted.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 8, 2005 1:20 PM

I hope that the french people and their government will sincerely apologise to the rioters, for causing this "unpleasantness" in the first place.

After all, the jizya goes together with the dhimmi feeling properly subdued.

Stands to reason.

Posted by: pr126 at November 8, 2005 1:29 PM

Do the Musulmans get to slap the Dhimmi Vilepin about the head to assure he acknowldges his inferior position when he pays the increased jizya? It's only proper, and we must be true and respectful to Islam and its historical treatment of the dhimmis.

Posted by: John Sobieski at November 8, 2005 1:42 PM

"The prime minister said in the interview that students must be able to join vocational training programs at the age of 14 instead of 16. Almost 150,000 students drop out of school without a diploma or a skill each year, according to the prime minister."

VOCATIONAL SCHOOL?!?!?! Isn't that kind of work beneath muslims? Oh, sure, it was okay for the post-WWII immigrant generation but their descendants aren't interested in repairing air conditioners or being mechanics. No, no. They want to run "their" country already, goshdarnit!

I'm afraid that it will take an ignorant rioter accidently destroying some uniquely French monument before the French decide to get medieval with these scumbags.

Posted by: 3812Michelle at November 8, 2005 1:50 PM

I know that JW/DW is devoted to the dangers of Islam and not to economic policy, but I'd just like to make one point. Even if De Villepin is sincere in what he says, it is nonsensical. You can't find jobs for people if there are no jobs to find. The French economy is stagnant and shows no signs of being capable of creating wealth and jobs. If France really wants to create more employment, it will have to liberalize its economy substantially along the lines of the "Anglo-Saxon" model that the French elite sneer at. I don't see that happening. As Robert says, what De Villepin has in mind is simply a form of extortion; giving the rioters money if they promise not to riot anymore.

Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at November 8, 2005 1:51 PM

From Howard, Fine & Howard: "As Robert says, what De Villepin has in mind is simply a form of extortion; giving the rioters money if they promise not to riot anymore"

Isn't that the foundation of jizya? The "promise" that islam won't destroy them as long as they pay the fee? I think that's how islam has made it (altough meagerly), by not advancing their own wealth through their own labors, but by exploiting the labors of the societies that they have subdued. I propose that the French take that extra money they would spend in "reforming" their system and actually arm their police forces and eradicate the rioters completely. That would be a better message to the rioters - instead of "we're sorry you're having such a rough time, let us give you some more money" maybe the message of "We're going to kill you on the spot if you even think about destroying our country" would be better.
I would like to think that the situation would be extremely different in the US, but with all of the apologists and liberals running around, I'm afraid it would take extreme action of the non-muslim citizenry to counter such an action here.

Posted by: Constantinople at November 8, 2005 2:04 PM

Unemployment rates, and statistics about economic wellbeing, alone tell us nothing. If Muslims are raised not to question or be skeptical about Islam itself, and they are so raised, whether they go to a mosque every day or never go, if they treat with indifference their studies, and are dangerously insolent to teachers, and refuse to accept lesssons about Voltaire (because he is considered "anti-Muslim" for his play, "Mahomet"), or about other writers, or about European or French history that in their view does not give Islam its proper (much exaggerated and sanitized) place, or rebel against learning about World War II because such a period might lead to sympathy for Jews and that of course would be bad, if they choose to be at the same time both haters of Infidels, murderous in their hatred, and claim to despise the culture of Infidels but eagerly mimic not the best of what Infidel civilization has to offer but the most barbarous parts, which result of course in beur hip-hop that need only be imagined (and the French are supposed to trade La Fontaine and Hugo for that?), if furthermore they are deeply impressed with the notion that Muslims by right should dominate, that Infidel women and Infidel property is more or less theirs for the taking, or put another way, if they take it they are not merely criminals but in fact Jihadists, doing what the Qur'an permits them, and therefore Islam both justifies, and promotes, as it always has, the looting and rape and mass murder, by Muslims, of non-Muslims. It is an ideology that justifies acts that if not performed by Muslims at the expense of non-Muslims, would simply be seen as crime.

If the French government gives special favors to Muslims now, more jobs and more training, it will be rewarding its enemies, and it will make it that much harder for all the non-Muslims in France, the native French, and the antillais, and the Christians from Togo, and the Vietnamese from Saigon and Hue, and the Chinese, to obtain work. For their own dutiful acceptance of French ways and the rules of the society, they will be punished, and the brutish enemies of that society, of rationality, of Western laws and manners and customs, will be rewarded. This is intolerable. This cannot be permitted.

D. de V. is a perfect example of a French type --the worst French type. The well-connected son of a well-connected father, an enarque, a world-traveller on the state's expense, a diner-out on the state's expense, a pretentious poetaster who thinks he is St.-John Perse but St.-John Perse was always appreciative of the United States, and would not have tolerated for one minute the Muslim barbarism. What would others have thought of the auto-destruction of France that does not have to be? True, great mistakes were made in letting in so many Muslims, and relying on the likes of Kepel and Roy and Eric Rouleau for information, in Le Monde and in government councils, on what Islam is all about.

But mistakes can be undone. It simply requires a little willingness to not be timid, not to be afraid to take an implacable, a permanently implacable, line. And to look a bit more closely at the Benes Decree, and at the perfectly justifiable and coherent reasons offered by Masaryk, and Benes, and supported by the Czechs then and now, and never seen as something that needed to be apologized for, even if one or two thought the execution of the decree left something to be desired, by any of the representatives of the Czech people, then, or now.

It is either something like the Benes Decree, or the inevitable destruction of French civilization and the French. And then the rest of Europe. Which would you choose? Would you dare to suggest that Muslims should be repatriated to Muslim countries, where perhaps they will be welcomed, perhaps not (France can of course do what it wants right away with all non-citizens, but it should also look into the nature of naturalization oaths, which must not have been the occasion for perjury, and into all sorts of other things as well, to make France Islam-hostile, and not even more colossally, crazily, suicidally Islam-friendly than it already is.

If the French people have to choose between the survival of France as France, and offending a few, temporarily, because of a French version of the Benes Decree -- perhaps carried out cunningly in stages, with some patter to divert attention and cover things up, but carried out nonetheless.

These things have to be considered. What do the current inhabitants of France owe to Chateaubriand or Clemenceau or Villehardouin and Joinville, or Montaigne, or Hugo, or Proust, or Degas or Corot or Balthus? Do they owe them, at least, the duty of maintaining a civilization where such things are possible, and where such things are fully appreciated?

What would the world be like if Europe, or even just France, were to be subject to this crazed and primitive belief-system? Before you object to that phrasing, go study the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the Sira. Go look into the history of Muslim conquest and Muslim subjugation of every kind of non-Muslim -- the histories are so remarkably similar, in time and space, that it can only be explained as the natural result of the teachings of Islam.

Think again about what is most important. Offending Al-Azhar University, or assorted Arabs here and there, or preserving France and its culture, and the possibility of further creation, liveliness, humor, music, art, literature, philosophizing -- or the impossiblity of any of it, as France sinks into what one can see all over the Muslim world. What is worth saving, and what should be sacrificed? Art and science, or a recent idol of the age, which tells us "we can't do such things" or "such things are not done." They were done, within living memory of some, by the most tolerant and advanced state in Central Europe, run by two of the most tolerant and advanced and cultivated of leaders -- Tomas Masaryk the son of the father of modern Czechoslovakia, Tomas Masaryk, and Eduard Benes.

So which is it to be? Sacrifice France, or change immigration and domestic policy, and work in every possible way to diminish the Muslim presence, the Muslim power, the Muslim ability to transform France? Which?

Posted by: Hugh at November 8, 2005 2:15 PM

This man, DeVillepain, is surely Satan's usher -- Satan's waterboy !?

Posted by: jsla at November 8, 2005 3:21 PM

"...students must be able to join vocational training programs at the age of 14 instead of 16".

Thats it Mr. Prime Minister, reward your dropouts with paid training. Idiot! What about raising the age from 16 to 18 to encourage French citizens to finish high school? This would also help alleviate youth unemployment and leave what jobs are available to older people.

Or is this all about the further dumbing down of society and further entrenching the cradle to grave entitlement philosopy of socialism? Blahh! Makes me want to puke.

Posted by: William The Crusader at November 8, 2005 3:29 PM

The people of France already voted on the EU constitution and said "NO".

Primarily a slap in the face of immigration.

Now with these contributions coming from the goverment going to the immigrants, it will be interesting to see the next vote in France. It will be the most important for France. Either the people will stand up to the goverment and move conservative, or they are done.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at November 8, 2005 3:49 PM

The true social welfare response from big government. Throw as much money as taxably possible at the problem without any identifiable goals or implementation plan to reach those goals. Sounds like LBJ's Great Society.

Posted by: Lisa at November 8, 2005 3:52 PM

In this context, Jason Pappas' column on his excellent blog Liberty and Culture is well worth reading:

Today, we read about France’s dysfunctional economy, its policy of appeasement, and its obstructionist foreign policy. These are all valid criticisms but they shouldn’t be elevated above the fact that Islamic hostility to the West is independent of our action or inaction.

This is a really important point to grasp when discussing the merits or otherwise of social and economic policies, of left and right, or of multiculturalism versus melting pot.

With Islam, nothing works, because Islam demands everything. Courses of action that bring out the best in other groups do not work with Islam. Appease Muslims and they become emboldened and dangerous. Thwart them and they get angry and dangerous. Educate them? Knowledge is power to be used in the service of Islam. Segregate them? Look at France. Integrate them? They become better dissemblers. Empower Muslim women? They join their brothers in Jihad. With Islam, nothing works.

Posted by: Interested at November 8, 2005 3:52 PM

OK, the French don't get it. D.d.Villepin is a disgrace. But look at the US networks, look at what the Brits, the Germans are reporting:
They're all oozing PC, they are the worst cowards the world has ever seen.

The question is: Are they really that stupid, do they prefer to bury their heads in the sand, or do they really think that not talking about it might keep the wolves from the door?

I am disgusted. But I am equally disgusted about the non-existent leadership in the US, and those who would have us believe that there is such a thing.

No. Something else is needed now, and quickly. Some fundamental change in policy in the West, a grass-roots movement, something very much along the line of JW/DW, Spencer and Fitzgerald, and many more. And why should we not get a majority? This is not a matter of left and right, this is not about the left handed lesbians and the squirrel loving Homo's, (no offense intended) this is about our survival and your freedom, just like mine.

We are the people! Lets get the message out there and turn it around!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 8, 2005 4:09 PM

As Howard pointed out paying extortion money to the Muslims makes no sense because there are no jobs to be had in France thanks to the stagnant socialist economy. The French would be better off limiting the immigration of unskilled workers while deporting illegals (who aren't contributing anyway) back to their native countries. The extortion money will only increase the tax burden on French citizens some of whom were economic victims of the Muslim rioters. Here's a post from polipundint that makes the point about the French economy.
________________________________________

Since the ’70s, America has created 57 million new jobs, compared with just four million in Europe (with most of those jobs in government). In France and much of Western Europe, the economic system is weighted toward the already employed (the overwhelming majority native-born whites) and the growing mass of retirees. Those ensconced in state and corporate employment enjoy short weeks, early and well-funded retirement and first dibs on the public purse. So although the retirement of large numbers of workers should be opening up new job opportunities, unemployment among the young has been rising: In France, joblessness among workers in their 20s exceeds 20%, twice the overall national rate. In immigrant banlieues, where the population is much younger, average unemployment reaches 40%, and higher among the young.

To make matters worse, the elaborate French welfare state–government spending accounts for roughly half of GDP compared with 36% in the U.S.–also forces high tax burdens on younger workers lucky enough to have a job, largely to pay for an escalating number of pensioners and benefit recipients. In this system, the incentives are to take it easy, live well and then retire. The bloat of privileged aging blocks out opportunity for the young.

Posted by: Roxane at November 8, 2005 5:08 PM

"Almost 150,000 students drop out of school without a diploma or a skill each year, according to the prime minister."

Whose fault is that? "French Youth" are too good to pursue a trade? Being Muslims they deserve more than a lousy common trade? There is an attitude of entitlement inbred in Muslim youth. Besides, they think a hammer is for bludgeoning the Infidel...

It's not more money and schlorships that they need. Send them to boot camp and make them clean toilets and scrub floors. Have a drill sergeant get in their faces and spray spittle and belittle.

The French are nincompoops.

Posted by: Kemaste at November 8, 2005 5:34 PM

De Villpin just hammered the nail in France's coffin.

Posted by: delia7 at November 8, 2005 5:53 PM

Look at what happens in a nation that is not Islam-friendly. A vote comes due, and the politicians fall over themselves to plunge into the Islamic pool. We see the emergence of foul-smelling rats. We see our politicians turning the voters into jackals.

Where do the people turn when the electable leaders, not the fringe candidates on the extremes of politics but the ordinary men and women of the nation, stink to high heaven? What is the average voter to think when his own representative goes against him in search of election? What is the average person to think when leaders of a nation consort with the enemy to win a democratic race that results in betrayal of democracy itself?

http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/

That is the problem. Politicians will always chase the vote, specially the muslim vote, as it comes as a bloc vote. All the politicians have to do is to get the imama's blessing and presto, they are in power.

Posted by: DP111 at November 8, 2005 6:37 PM

This man, DeVillepain, is surely Satan's usher -- Satan's waterboy !? -jsla

I would go with "the Devil's Cabanna boy" but I think that title should go to our good friend Mo, who stared all of this. De Vile just suffers from the unfoutunate condition known as idiocy.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 8, 2005 8:36 PM

France is bankrupt, both morally and financially, and that goes back many years.

This time, Chirac was exposed as what he really is, always was:

A corrupt poseur, a grimacing, eyebrow-rolling idiot and
Dd Villepin, like a perfumed and overdressed prostitute, who had to go out on his behalf, not only to do nothing, but to declare surrender to the orchestrated violence of Islam, which now managed to bring France to its knees.

12 days of riots, total incompetence and inaction, and now a Korfu and millions for the scum of the earth? That is all they are able to come up with?

Whatever this corrupt polit-slime have coming to them, they deserve it. I hope the Mohammedans are going to stick it to them, and if there are any Frenchies left with balls then they better join the resistance now...

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 8, 2005 8:54 PM

It is a wonferful thing when Turkey joins the EU 70 million more to engage in ..... Is this the reson why the press is so PC??

Posted by: mark52 at November 8, 2005 11:16 PM

I recently read an article in a newspaper which recorded an interview with a taxi driver of vietnamese origin. This man (the taxi driver) seemed to have a clear head (as opposed to villepin). The root cause of the problem is obvious; muslims breed like rabbits and then dump their children on the streets.

Posted by: restitutor orbis at November 9, 2005 4:41 AM

The PC liberal press has gone into overdrive on this. It's vomit making. As usual that word "disaffected young Muslims" comes up time and time again. Meanwhile, the law abiding immigrants such as the Chinese, Vietnamese and Hindus quietly get their heads down to work and ask for no special favours from anyone.

Posted by: londongirl at November 9, 2005 6:42 AM

"Almost 150,000 drop out each year without a certificate." They're just emulating the high illiteracy rates back home in Algeria or Morocco. Iraq, for example, which has a middle class has illiteracy rates of 70% amongst women. I guess it must be even higher in other Middle Eastern countries. The States has been a bit choosier about the kind of Muslims immigrating there. Insisting that they already know how to read and write was kind of a good idea.

Posted by: londongirl at November 9, 2005 6:47 AM

Bin:

'Officials were forced to shut down the southern city of Lyon's subway system after a firebomb exploded in a station late Tuesday, a regional government spokesman said. Transport officials were to decide Wednesday morning when service could resume, the spokesman said.

Arsonists also set fire to a warehouse used by the Nice-Matin newspaper in Grasse, national police spokesman Patrick Reydy said. Youths looted and set fire to a furniture and electronics store and an adjacent carpet store in Arras, in the north, he said.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, detailing the measures to parliament on Tuesday, said riot police faced "determined individuals, structured gangs, organized criminality." Police say rioters have been using mobile phone text messages and the Internet to organize arson attacks.'

So... you Don't want the French populace to defend themselves?

Posted by: Gary at November 9, 2005 8:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me how an internal, purely social, problem in France turned into being an islamic issue with jizya and all that?
The problem was that a large group of people in the poor suburbs of France rioted because of their extremely poor conditions and lack of employment and government attention. Most of those rioters (according to the news) are youths who were dressed more like 50 Cent not Osama Bin Laden! They are not asking for an Islamic state, Jizya, or killing of all...but they are asking for a better living standards!
Does having some muslims in these crowds make it a "radical islamic movement"?

Posted by: Sherief at November 10, 2005 12:10 PM

I suppose it does, when they're mostly muslim and they should "Allah akbhar" and they only destroy non-muslim property.

But maybe this is my imagination.

Just a thought.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 10, 2005 12:25 PM

Geoff,

With all due respect, I have not read that anywhere and I have been following these stories since it began.
Destroying non-muslim properties is a very tricky excuse to call this an islamic riot. Think about it...where are those muslim properties out there? and how can u tell if a car belongs to a muslim or a non-muslim?

Posted by: Sherief at November 10, 2005 1:24 PM

Sherief,

With all due respect, if you haven't heard about it, you haven't been following it all that closely. There is abundant evidence from French and international sources that the muslim rioters are indeed targetting non-muslim owned vehicles and businesses. Search this site or LGF if you need proof.

As for how they're recognized...easy. If a car has an islamic sticker with a Quranic quote or a stylized image of Africa, it's a muslim vehicle, and they don't burn it. As for businesses, locals know who owns what.

Nothing tricky about it.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 10, 2005 3:42 PM