Well, that comes as a shock. Who would do such a thing?

Posted by: a10billr at November 17, 2005 2:04 PM

Well we can rule out muslims.

Posted by: TooBad at November 17, 2005 2:05 PM

Yes, who would do such wicked acts when expressively forbidden to do so by moderate Mullahs and Inmans?? When the holy Koran forbids
genocide and taking of innocent lives??? Ha!Ha!
We wish - intended victims hope - but we all know
the killing of Infidels is sanctioned,indeed encouraged by writings of crazy,sadistic monster Mo. "WHAT TERRORISTS INTEND A CHRISTMAS."

Posted by: Morgane at November 17, 2005 2:35 PM

I can hear it now, "it is un-islamic to bomb Christian churches", "islam respects prophet Jesus" etc. etc.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 17, 2005 2:36 PM

I am shocked! What most people don't realize is that Jihad has gone on for 1350 years and will continue until the last unbeliever is either subdued, "reverted," or dead, and of course all signs of other kinds of worship are eliminated.

Posted by: epg at November 17, 2005 4:22 PM

From Biased BBC blog site
-------------------------------------

I may not have time to blog much or deal with emails in the next few days. But I must make time to draw your attention to the BBC's Israeli-Palestian impartiality review.

The Panel invites written submissions from any individual who would like to comment on the BBC's coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and will take account of these contributions as part of its process. You can write to the following address:

Israeli-Palestinian Impartiality Review
BBC Governance Unit
Room 211, 35 Marylebone High Street
London, W1U 4AA

Or send an email to israelipalestinian.review@bbc.co.uk

The closing date for receiving responses is 5pm, Friday 25th November 2005.

Well-reasoned, polite letters that give specific instances of bias are the ones most likely to do good.
---------------------------------

Time to write a succinct and polite note to the BBC. The more the merrier.

Hugh, duh_swami, sheikh Yarmani, Morgane, jsla, DC Watson, Carolyne, Catherine, and all at JW/DW

Please take up your pens. All of you write well, and it should not be just for our edification at JW/DW.

Note: You may not think this is not going to help in altering the balance of BBC output. It may or may not, but all our letters will be on file. The BBC, like any large body is subject to outside purview, and these emails will be available to the review. There is already quite a bit of hostility to the BBC, both from Labour and the Conservatives. They cannot afford to fudge this issue, specially as the jihad hots up.

DP111

Posted by: DP111 at November 17, 2005 5:18 PM

Good place to look up a few facts

Anti-Israel Bias at the BBC

http://www.moriel.org/articles/israel/anti-israel_bias_at_bbc.htm

Posted by: DP111 at November 17, 2005 5:34 PM

What? The religion of peace, bomb churches, and during Christmas even? No, you've got to be kidding me. I thought it was the other way around, those darn Christians bombing and taking over mosques and such. Expect more and more of this, world-wide. Churches and synagogues are going to become the main targets of muslims, first in islamic nations, or nations that muslims are actively trying to take control of, then it will spread to Europe.

Posted by: pastor_matt023 at November 17, 2005 6:26 PM

So the national police will be on guard.

"Quis Custodiat Custodes?"

jay

Posted by: jay at November 17, 2005 6:47 PM

Bombing churches,synegauges,and hindu,buddist temples by islamic fanctics are very common and in fact it has got its sanction in the koran itself. It ssays'kill the infedels(non muslims).In Egypt so many churches of Gopt christians were destroyed. In fact these Gopt chritians are the original people of Egypt,before the onslaught of Islaam.Churches in Iran, and the arab christian churches in the middle east were destroyed. Recently, when christian countries were helping in millions of dollors aid to pakistan's earth quake,four pakistan churches were burnt down including two catholic,one Salvation Army church,and one presebeterian. The fun is,Salvation army volunteers collected funds door to door for the earthquake relief in America and canada,and sent doctors free to nurse the victims. This is the reward thay got -Burning of their own church in Pakistan and chasing out all the pak.christians.
Our media giants such as BBC,CNN coverup such activities . Unless we , the common citizens of USA , canada and Europe join together and snub these medias,they will continue harming our own society. CNN's Christene Amonpore always report against USA,Bush,and christians,and she is very partial to islam and muslims. Even while interviewing for the recent French riots,she only interviewed the muslims and concluded that the riots were the result of the French government's injustice to the 'minorities' ( She will not mention that these minorities are 100% muslims)!. In canada,the leading news paper Toronto Star is very favourable to muslims,and it is an anti Usa,anti jewish,and Anti christian paper. one of its muslim editor spits venom against Bush,chritians ,and jews .He always write that the muslims are treated badly in the west,knowing full well how well they are being treated here.His name is Haroon Siddiqe. He says he is fighting for the 'minority muslim' rights. When these minorities become bigger and bigger in western countries,you can see how many churches go into flames. Then our vote concious leaders will put the blame on the ' bd treatment' of these minorities and grant all the aminities these hooligans demand.

Posted by: rafia at November 17, 2005 7:47 PM

Now – correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember Christmas 2004. A story in the Province of Ache in Indonesia goes something like this (a true story)…..

The local Christians went to the head Mulla’s to ask if they could celebrate Christmas. The head Mulla’s always happy to subjugate the Christians said something like,

“sure no problem – you just cannot do it in town”

So the Christians in this town somewhere in Ache, being used to the myth of Islamic Peace and Tolerance didn’t fight the decision.

Instead, they followed the Mulla’s directions, the Christians headed out of town, up into the hills so that they could celebrate Christmas, and yet not upset the Muslims by doing it in town.

Well the Christians up in them there hills had a merry old time, in fact, they celebrated into the evening, and as they were a fair bit out of town, up in the hills, they all decided to sleep the night.

December 26 –Boxing Day. Early that morning, as the persecuted Christians were awaking to a beautiful tropical morning, the Muslims in the town of Ache saw a huge wave on the horizon. Within seconds the tsunami had swallowed them all. Their homes, including that of the Christians were wiped out, but worse for the Muslims, they lost their lives.

Now who knows what caused the tsunami. Divine intervention? The will of Allah as some Mufti’s said? Just bad luck? The perplexing question is though, why did “Allah” protect the people of the book on this day while letting his own Muslims die? Maybe Allah is impotent?

But what I do know for sure – is what goes around, comes around – sooner or later. The same applies to this article above!

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at November 17, 2005 7:57 PM

Christmas seems to have come early this year in France.
Here a list: 05e Nuit.31oct-01 novembre. Lundi-Mardi
- La Teste-de-Buch (33260 Gironde).Cimetière Profané.

10e Nuit. 05-06 novembre. Samedi-Dimanche
- Liévin (62800 Pas-de-Calais).Eglise.Engin Incendiaire. Porte
11e Nuit. 06-07 novembre. Dimanche-Lundi
- Lens (62300 Pas-de-Calais).Eglise de Saint-Edouard.Engin Incendiaire. Porte

- Sète (34200 Hérault). Eglise de l’Ile de Thau.2 Engins Incendiaires. Vitres

12e Nuit. 07-08 novembre. Lundi-Mardi
- Strasbourg (67000 Bas-Rhin). Eglise Saint-Benoît.Engins Incendiaires[Le Figaro - 10 nov 2005.]

15e Nuit 10-11 novembre Jeudi-Vendredi
- Houdain (62150 Pas-De-Calais).Chapelle Polonaise. Saccage de l’Eglise.(voir à ce sujet la lettre de Patrick Bednarek , président de Polonia)
- Rance (Belgique).Eglise Sainte-Aldegonde. Saccage de l’Eglise.

16e Nuit 11-12. Vendredi-Samedi
- Vesoul ( 70000 Haute-Saône).Eglise. Porte Incendiée

17e Nuit 12-13. Samedi-Dimanche
- Brignoles (83170 Var). Eglise.Porte incendiée.

18e Nuit 13-14 novembre.
- Nanteuil-lès-Meaux (77100 Seine et Marne).Cimetière profané

19e Nuit 14-15 novembre.(??)
- Draveil (91210 Essone) 2 Chapelles Incendiées(?) dont Eglise évangélique des Bergeries.

20e Nuit 15-16 novembre. Mardi-Mercredi
- Romans-sur-Isère (26100 Drôme).Eglise Saint-Jean-d’Ars. Incendie criminel.

Antidhimmitude: Catholic Bishop Wiertz (Roermond, The Netherlands) took a strong position concerning Turkey/EU (NO!) and pointed out that islam is not democratic.

Posted by: Ernst at November 17, 2005 9:48 PM

Ernst - excuse my ignorance- but what does all that mean in English?

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at November 17, 2005 9:51 PM

I just flipped through my koran and found a passage that says, "dont kill anyone". So I called my imam and he told me that what the prophet really meant by that statement was that I should kill all non-muslims. Interpretation made simple.

I dont worry about churches being bombed, I mean I do because they are important buildings, but Christians arent going to let the lack of an actual church keep them from worship and fellowship.

Muslims attack and kill if a non-muslim so much as scratches a mosque. Christians simply gather where they can, participate in worship and get on with the rebuilding process.

Its the difference between a true religion of peace and the heretical plague known as islam.

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at November 17, 2005 10:59 PM

3rdtime:
It is a list of all the churches that where torched or otherwise sacked or destroyed over the last weeks in France.

Posted by: Ernst at November 17, 2005 11:27 PM

and cemetries defiled.

Posted by: Ernst at November 17, 2005 11:29 PM

It is a list of all the churches that where torched or otherwise sacked or destroyed over the last weeks in France.

I was under the impression that the rioters were simply misunderstood "youths" and there was no religious element to the destruction?

Well knock me over with a feather!

Posted by: Dead Infidel Walking at November 17, 2005 11:37 PM

Here some insight in the French jihad. I'm sorry it is very long, but I could not have done a better and/or shorter job myself.

----------------------------------------
Below is an article in The Washington Post that I will carefully comment for you. After that, I will comment my comment.

(The I is not me, but Leon de Winter, a well known publicist in The Netherlands, from his log
http://www.welt.de/z/plog/blog.php/the_free_west
I have put his comments between ()

Rage of French Youth Is a Fight for Recognition

Spreading Rampage in Country's Slums Is Rooted in Alienation and Abiding Government Neglect

By Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 6, 2005; A01

LE BLANC-MESNIL, France, Nov. 5 -- Mohammed Rezzoug, caretaker of the municipal gymnasium and soccer field, knows far more about the youths hurling firebombs and torching cars on the streets of this Paris suburb than do the police officers and French intelligence agents struggling to nail the culprits.

(The municipal gymnasium and soccer field? Do they have these things in this depraved area?)

He can identify most of the perpetrators. So can almost everyone else in the neighborhoods that have been attacked.
"They're my kids," said Rezzoug, a garrulous 45-year-old with thinning black hair and skin the color of a walnut.

(His kids? Do they come playing soccer? Visiting his gymnasium?)

While French politicians say the violence now circling and even entering the capital of France and spreading to towns across the country is the work of organized criminal gangs, the residents of Le Blanc-Mesnil know better. Many of the rioters grew up playing soccer on Rezzoug's field. They are the children of baggage handlers at nearby Charles de Gaulle International Airport and cleaners at the local schools.

(Yes, there are playing soccer there, on the field provided and financed by the community. And notice the intrinsic denigration in the description of the jobs of the parents: ‘baggage handlers’ and ‘cleaners’. Does the writer suggest that they are basically doctors and lawyers but discrimination forces them to handle luggage and to clean toilets?)

"It's not a political revolution or a Muslim revolution," said Rezzoug. "There's a lot of rage. Through this burning, they're saying, 'I exist, I'm here.' "

(Oh – so the riots are a philosophical statement?)

Such a dramatic demand for recognition underscores the chasm between the fastest growing segment of France's population and the staid political hierarchy that has been inept at responding to societal shifts. The youths rampaging through France's poorest neighborhoods are the French-born children of African and Arab immigrants, the most neglected of the country's citizens.

(‘The most neglected’ – neglected by whom? The high unemployment is the result of a high school drop-out, just like in Holland, in a society in which the demand for unskilled labor is strongly diminishing.)

A large percentage are members of the Muslim community that accounts for about 10 percent of France's 60 million people.

One of Rezzoug's "kids" -- the countless youths who use the sports facilities he oversees -- is a husky, French-born 18-year-old whose parents moved here from Ivory Coast. At 3 p.m. on Saturday, he'd just awakened and ventured back onto the streets after a night of setting cars ablaze.

(The countless youth has been using the sports facilities but at the same time they have been neglected!)

"We want to change the government," he said, a black baseball cap pulled low over large, chocolate-brown eyes and an ebony face. "There's no way of getting their attention. The only way to communicate is by burning."

(They want the attention of the government – for what reason? They want to have more jobs as baggage handlers and cleaners? More sports facilities? Or better schools?)

[jumping to the end of the article]

"I'm a citizen of France, but I don't count," said an athletic 28-year-old who identified himself only as Abdel. With his trim black beard and short hair gelled into shiny black wavelets, Abdel hovered on the edge of the circle surrounding the youths who admitted to their involvement in the violence.

(In what way does he want to be counted? Higher unemployment benefits? Why is he not working on another option? There is also the possibility that others notice him because he is contributing to society in a positive way. He could have gone the evening school and get his diploma’s to succeed in life, couldn’t he?)

"They call us maggots," added a thin teenager hunched inside a thin polyester windbreaker that offered little protection from the damp chill of a gray fall afternoon.

(‘The windbreaker offered little protection’ – it must be the fault of the French government.)

Beyond their hatred of Sarkozy, the youths involved in the rampages and their companions offer a disparate list of grievances against the government.

Abdel, echoing the anger of many of the youths, said he resented the French government's efforts to thrust Muslim leaders into the role of mediators between the police and the violent demonstrators.

"This has nothing to do with religion," he said. "But non-Muslims are afraid of people like me with a beard. I look suspicious to them. Discrimination is all around us. We live it every day. It's become a habit. It's in the air."

(Aha: it is discrimination. He does not shave his beard, which scares non-Muslims, and instead prefers to keep it and take the discrimination. Is it discrimination too that most of the young men in his area leave school too early and cannot get jobs but cleaning offices?)

[jump]

“They also are out to prove to their parents and brothers and uncles they can't take it any more," he said. "They're burning the places where they play, where they sit -- they're burning their own playpens."

Le Blanc-Mesnil is not a community where youths aspire to spend their lives. There is none of the glamour that most of the world associates with Paris, just a 25-minute drive or train ride away. It is an industrial city of boxy apartment complexes and strip malls. In a nation where unemployment has hovered at 10 percent this year, the rates are here four to five times as high among people under 25.

"We feel rejected, compared to the kids who live in better neighborhoods," said Nasim, a chunky 16-year-old with braces and acne. "Everything here is broken down and abandoned. There's no place for the little kids to go."

(They feel rejected – rejected by whom? Should the state give them more? Who breaks down the things, who abandons things? No place for little kids to go? And the reporter just told us that they are burning their own playpens. And what about the soccer field and the gymnasium? WHAT DO THEY WANT MORE?)

As on most Saturday afternoons, there was little for Nasim or his friends to do. They sauntered among the older youths who spent the late afternoon hanging out on street corners or the sidewalks in front of coffee shops.

(Is it more exciting to live in Algeria or Senegal? They want to have free lifetime passes for EuroDisney? Or free cards for Blockbuster? Why don’t they read a book? There are great French writers, but apparently they want more action! What is Nasim looking for when he hangs out? What could take away his rage? His own car? A library card? And why can’t he provide for this himself by working hard, studying hard?)

Several of the older youths fingered pockets bulging with plastic packets of hashish for sale or trade. As they read local newspaper accounts of their previous night's exploits, they began discussing Saturday night's plans with more of an air of boredom than a commitment to a cause.

(This is the action they are looking for: trash things, burn them. And instead of saying: it is great fun trashing things, they use the rhetorics of the PC-media: put the blame on the government, tell the world it is discrimination that is causing so much boredom in their lives.)

"We don't have the American dream here," said Rezzoug, as he surveyed the clusters of young men. "We don't even have the French dream here."

(American dream? The American dream is about working and working, about taking two, three jobs because the state will not take care of you if you don’t take care of yourself.)

Leon de Winter:

This Washington Post article is just an example of how the mainstream US press is reporting on the riots. There is a lack of the right perspective, and the main impression one gets when overlooking The New York Times and The Washington Post is: these poor kids have been marginalized by a racist society.

Somehow these revolting youngsters started to think that it was normal to want it all and to want it now without sweating for it. They drop out of school in masses but nevertheless demand the welfare state to fulfill their dreams, whatever they may be. They look down at going to work as baggage handlers or asparagus diggers, and they feel they have the right to do the same things and own the same things as the kids in the better neighborhoods – the state should give it them.
They have a natural right, they apparently believe, not to be neglected, not to be overlooked, not to be abandoned, not to be counted out. They think it is the state’s obligation to prevent them from being bored, from being poor and uneducated.
They are the victims of several ideologies: the religious ideology of their Imams, who created religious resentment among them, the ideology of the welfare state, which gave them the impression that about anything was for free and should be delivered by the state, the ethnic ideology of their parents, who came semi or completely illiterate from Africa and who were not able to raise their children with a passion for study and books, the ideology of the multiculti society, which gave them the idea that it was not necessary to integrate and that it was alright stick to the magic of the home country, the ideology of victimology, which considers almost every African immigrant a victim of colonization/imperialism/Zionism, the ideology of the Political Correct media establishment, which is still avoiding the main issue: a welfare state cannot be an immigration state, a highly evolved state with a shrinking demand for unskilled labor, with unions and minimum wages, cannot absorb large amounts of unskilled and barely educated immigrants.

Second or third generation immigrants should be able to leave the ghetto’s their parents arrived at after their immigration. Instead of enlargement of the ghetto’s we should see them decreasing in size. Why does this not happen? In his enlightening essay about the psyche of the London bombers Theodore Dalrymple compares the socio-economic situation of British Muslims with that of British Hindu’s:

“The evidence of Muslims’ own eyes and of their own lives, as well as that of statistics, is quite clear: Muslim immigrants and their descendants are more likely to be poor, to live in overcrowded conditions, to be unemployed, to have low levels of educational achievement, and above all to be imprisoned, than other South Asian immigrants and their descendants. The refusal to educate females to their full capacity is a terrible handicap in a society in which, perhaps regrettably, prosperity requires two household incomes. The idea that one is already in possession of the final revealed truth, leading to an inherently superior way of life, inhibits adaptation to a technically more advanced society. Even so, some British Muslims do succeed (the father of one of the London bombers owned two shops, two houses, and drove a new Mercedes)—a fact which their compatriots interpret exactly backward: not that Muslims can succeed, but that generally they can’t, because British society is inimical to Muslims.

Dalrymple continues:

“In coming to this conclusion, young Muslims would only be adopting the logic that has driven Western social policy for so long: that any difference in economic and social outcome between groups is the result of social injustice and adverse discrimination. The premises of multiculturalism don’t even permit asking whether reasons internal to the groups themselves might account for differences in outcomes.”

“The BBC peddles this sociological view consistently. In 1997, for example, it stated that Muslims “continue to face discrimination,” as witness the fact that they were three times as likely to be unemployed long-term as West Indians; and this has been its line ever since. If more Muslims than any other group possess no educational qualifications whatsoever, even though the hurdles for winning such qualifications have constantly fallen, it can only be because of discrimination—though a quarter of all medical students in Britain are now of Indian sub-continental descent. It can have nothing whatever to do with the widespread—and illegal—practice of refusing to allow girls to continue at school, which the press scarcely ever mentions, and which the educational authorities rarely if ever investigate. If youth unemployment among Muslims is two and a half times the rate among whites, it can be only because of discrimination—though youth unemployment among Hindus is actually lower than among whites (and this even though many young Hindus complain of being mistaken for Muslims). And so on and so on”.

Visually, Pakistani Muslims cannot be distinguished from Indian Hindu’s – in other words: the race card cannot be played explaining the huge differences in education, ambition and unemployment between Muslims and Hindu’s. But as long as the PC media continue to play the discrimination card – as the above-mentioned WaPo article in between the lines is doing - delusions will reign.

Why do migrating Hindu’s perform so much better than migrating Muslims in Europe? How come that a quarter of all medical students in the UK, as Dalrymple says, have an Indian background? Why don’t we see a rise in similar demanding professions of Muslim students? Why is it, as Dalrymple asks, that more Muslims than any other group possess no educational qualifications whatsoever, even though the hurdles for winning such qualifications have constantly fallen?

Unless we are free to discuss these uncomfortable questions, we shall see the continuation and expansion of the violence of deeply confused and misdirected young European Muslims, who want us to know they are there and that they exist.

Clarity, honesty, truthfulness – that is what we need in this discussion.

Posted by: Ernst at November 18, 2005 12:18 AM

I thought the Muslims said that they revere Jesus. Guess that was just more of their never ending bullshit.....But we knew that already, did we not?

Posted by: DCWatson at November 18, 2005 9:54 AM

Don't tell me about Mohammedan baggage handlers at Paris-airport: I have had my luggage ripped and cut open and stuff stolen 3 times!

Nowadays I always fly into other airports.

The slaves of Allah steal, rob, rape and destroy wherever they are.
Its their 'culture...'

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 18, 2005 4:13 PM

DP111 -- Thanks for the heads up -- I just read your post and will look into it... This is WELL worth doing -- I write at least two or three letters a week (minimum) to various media challenging opinion pieces and perceived bias... A polite letter will often get some kind of response from authors and editors -- at least you'll know you've been heard... excellent idea to bring it up in this forum!

Posted by: jsla at November 18, 2005 5:58 PM