"First off, I was actually, I was not taking my medication so I was under the influence of voices and secondly I believe at the time when I commit these offences that she had no right to say no."

Sounds just like prophet Mo. After all, he was the 'perfect' man, and every Mohammedan seeks to emulate him.

Rape, steal, lie, deceive, murder, terrorize, and then call it "religion'.

Once the infidels realize that Mo's cult is anything but religion, but a perverse, totalitarian ideology based on conquest and booty, hellbent on death and destruction in the name of 'Allah' the moon-god, unless infidels all over the world understand that Islam means 'submission' and the end of (our) freedom, science, the arts and everything we hold dear, until we stupid infidels wake up and realize that we trusted the fox with the keys to the chicken-shack this will go on and many will get hurt.

Some of us have their number. Perhaps not enough of us yet to effect mass-deportations. But it will come to that, sooner or later, just a matter of time.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at December 10, 2005 6:37 AM

being in jail, his butt will be cannon fodder! he can then use the same excuse? tell him to cover up in jail, see if that works, that piece of crap!

Posted by: Lulu at December 10, 2005 7:02 AM

"First off, I was actually, I was not taking my medication so I was under the influence of voices and secondly I believe at the time when I commit these offences that she had no right to say no."

If his defence is that he was temporarily insane, then it doesn't matter what he believed at the time, even if that belief would get him off the hook. Muslim logic again.

Wasn't there a Muslim rape case in Australia where a barrister tried, unsuccessfully, to use 'cultural' differences to get his client off? Or is this the same case?

she was not wearing any headscarf and she started drinking with us and she was singing.

So he was drinking then? The double standard is so deeply ingrained that he does not think to conceal his views, even when this would be prudent.

being in jail, his butt will be cannon fodder! he can then use the same excuse? tell him to cover up in jail, see if that works, that piece of crap!

Lulu - well put.

Posted by: Interested at December 10, 2005 7:35 AM

l have come to the conclusion that Muslim men are very weak minded. they cannot control themselves in the pressence of women. so in order to control their urges, women have to be covered up. what a pathetic people, culture and cult!

Posted by: Lulu at December 10, 2005 9:14 AM

And he wants to study medicine?

Sicko.

Posted by: Gorkhali at December 10, 2005 9:22 AM

Well don't be too shocked, but the father of these vile creatures is a doctor. After the trial for the other rapes, the dad said basically that what did the victims expect? because in Pakistan women don't go out unaccompanied like they do here. Such arrogance - we are supposed to adjust to their culture, not the other way around??? There was some protest from women in his area who questioned whether he should be allowed to practise medicine with that attitude. Certainly I would dump him as my doctor. Disgusting man!

These four brothers, nicknamed The Brothers Gruesome, foisted on our country, onto unsuspecting girls who've had their lives forever devastated. This eldest one is already serving time for other rapes, this is another trial for other rapes. How busy this puke was, in such a short time here. In the previous trial, three of them cursed and swore and showed utter disrespect to the court, threw things at the jury, tried to get a delay for Ramadan, made excuses and lied all the time. As this eldest one is lying now. Apology? LOL! Like hell.

Posted by: feralee at December 10, 2005 9:33 AM

l have come to the conclusion that Muslim men are very weak minded. they cannot control themselves in the pressence of women. so in order to control their urges, women have to be covered up. what a pathetic people, culture and cult!

They are truly weak minded and weak willed. Temperance comes from within. And the ludricious claim that they didn't understand that rape is illegal in Australia can not stand up to a test of veracity. All immigrants know something about the mores of the culture into which they are moving...they didn't want the bother of a behavior change until they came up next to the force of law. Their claim is cop out.

Posted by: epg at December 10, 2005 9:37 AM

Well, the next time I go out for a drink and a sing-a-long, I'll make sure to wear my barbed wire underwear.

To Interested:

Yes, there was such a trial in Australia. Whether this is the same one, I do not know. It may be that they have moved on to the sentencing phase.

Posted by: Anthony at December 10, 2005 9:43 AM

In the previous trial, three of them cursed and swore and showed utter disrespect to the court, threw things at the jury, tried to get a delay for Ramadan, made excuses and lied all the time. As this eldest one is lying now. Apology?

This type of conduct is allowed in Australia? In the US this is called "contempt of court" it can earn a defendant additional jail time. Such conduct would also get the defedant removed from the court and placed in a room where he would watch the proceedings on closed circuit television.

Posted by: Roxane at December 10, 2005 11:36 AM

@Lulu:

actually, the fact that muslims feel they cannot control themselves is the reason that they want women to wear veils.

They say this themselves(look it up on the web, on the muslims sites that explain the 'need' for the hijab, you'll see) and, when you ask them in person about the reason for this they'll happily explain this position, without even flinching. One fellow muslim student (a kurd) actually said this to my face.

I do not think that it is malice as such -- love and respect for women just isn't part of their universe, and we probably would equally be puzzled if someone asked us to treasure, honour and love a random object.

I personally think that is a very sad, because the males are as much victims of Islam here as are the women.

Imli

Posted by: Imli at December 10, 2005 11:44 AM

If a female was raped due to her not maintaining the laws of Hijaab, she is partly to be blamed as the rapist will be considered as being seduced by her
revealing form and shape. She should make Tawbah (sincerely repent) by also adhering to the laws of Hijaab.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

quoted in full from

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2805

I blame the media for portraying women badly - all over the place they have sex and sometimes travelling western women want sex too. Therefore it follows all western women want sex.

I can't believe the umma that always bleat about how misinformed we are by the media about a great religion hijacked by a few (the only hijackers that no one tries to kill to release the hostages, mind)could dare to assume because they have seen a woman having sex on TV all western women want to have sex with them.

If you think it is odd that the men don't have to be chaste check this link out.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=4196

it seems virgin is not a context for men!

However it does say men should not be alone with a women so maybe someone could comment just how he ever justified his acts? Is there a koran passage that makes it ok for infidel women (making the head dress a red herring anyway)?

If there is then he is not really telling us his true culture. If not then he is hiding behind his primitive culture rather than admit he can't control himself.

I first started to wonder about what really goes on in these guys' minds when I had a friend from the wild north west (north west frontier province of spakistan) who ranted about the decadence and promiscuity of western corrupt society. Months later he was dealing drugs and told in graphic detail his sexual exploits with the servant girls back home as a teenager.

Posted by: exposesithlords at December 10, 2005 12:03 PM

This trial shows to the western world the mind set of Muslims. They cannot control their vulger desires, that is one reason women in their own countries are covered from head to toe.
This family needs to be incacerated for a long time and then deported back to Pakistan including the Father who is a disgrace to the Medical profession.

Posted by: faqi at December 10, 2005 12:21 PM

I wonder how you people blame Islam for this - when islam forbids a man to even touch a woman he is not related to or to look at lust at such a woman

It also forbids a muslim to be in place where there
is alcohol and dancing of the opposite sex

yet this person did all these things AGAINST islam and you blame Islam ? bizarre

Clearly this person wanted to use his religion as a cover for his evil deeds

Imli said

"I do not think that it is malice as such -- love and respect for women just isn't part of their universe, and we probably would equally be puzzled if someone asked us to treasure, honour and love a random object."

this is complete false the quran says

"And among His signs is this, that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, that you may dwell in peace and tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect" (Quran 30:21).

the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: “There is nothing better for two who love each other than marriage.”(Sahih Al-Jami`, 5200)

he also said
"The best amongst you are those who are kindest to their wives.'(Bukhari)

Posted by: rumi at December 10, 2005 1:11 PM

Rumi: The rapist blamed his "culture" for his behavior. His "culture" is Islamic. Now, you really don't want to separate your culture from your religion, do you?? Isn't that the term that is constantly and generously used, "the Islamic world," the "Islamic culture." I have known Muslims from across the "Islamic world." With a few notable exceptions, the Muslim men that I have known are cruel and uncaring towards their sisters and wives. Oh yes, and then there is the issue of "honor killings," done by Muslim men on their women for acts like being raped against their will or going to a movie with a man unrelated to them. Yes, your "Islamic" culture is sick and distorted; Unfortunately, for the victims of those rapist brothers, your "Islamic culture" is now impacting people and countries, which until a few decades ago, were free from such cultural and physical terrorism that Muslims now bring with them.

Posted by: maryrose at December 10, 2005 1:48 PM

Imli:

I don't buy your notion that muslim men are victims of Islam just as women are. Islam was created by a depraved, sex-obsessed man on behalf of Arab men, and they've benefitted from it ever since. A real victim derives no sense of power and gratification from his/her condition. It's utter annihilation of the self, utter denial of personhood in its own right, and of the body hosting that self (take the Holocaust or the Goulag for a measure of real victimhood; you've ingested too much Western psychobabble that posits an endless chain of victimization in which nobody is ever responsible for his/her actions,the most dangerous and sick idea our culture has created lately.

I'm not talking about those who, like blacks in the US, use a former, historical victimhood to obtain political gains in the present. Their very access to the lines of power (media, congress, etc.) belies their cherished status as victims in the present.

Besides, you can't be the victim of a "theory," of a theology. If that theory happens to fit you or to legitimize your libidinal self, no matter how you got it, you embrace it. No victims here.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at December 10, 2005 2:21 PM

Rumi,

the Quran does not honour woman as equals, but states that:

# Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228

# A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282

The fundamental problem with that is that it instills the idea into people that women do not need to be respected (as much) and that women who do not conform to the moral norms(like the child that was raped), can be mistreated like that, because they are 'honourless' and have no-one to 'protect' them.

I have met many muslim men over the years, and, at some points in my life I took to changing the side of the road because I got tired of being whistled at or have obsceneties spat at me, in my own country. Many of those guys followed me for quite a while btw, it is pretty scary. Talking to them doesn't work, screaming at them neither, they simply laugh at you -- no respect and they get a kick out of trying to humiliate the women the harass in that manner, and when they finally realise that you do not 'fancy' them, they get abusive to boot. Many of them try to touch you up, it truly is totally disgusting.

In other words, muslim men are well behaved when at home, but, outside of the controlled environment a lot of them turn into mindless, randy pigs. The muslimas never hear about it, because it doesn't happen to them.

Now, you might say it has nothing to do with Islam, but, it only happened with muslims. It is simply not possible to smile or talk to a male muslim even about trivialities without risking a solicitation.

Now, Rumi, please tell me: What am I to think?

Imli

Posted by: Imli at December 10, 2005 3:20 PM

the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: “There is nothing better for two who love each other than marriage.”(Sahih Al-Jami`, 5200)

When you bring "the Prophet" Mo in as as character witness it weakens your case.

9 wives ... don't you feel cheated he only allowed you 4?
untold corcubines

Who will deal with this rascal for me?

That's another hadith ... and it's not a weak hadith!

Posted by: Jack at December 10, 2005 4:03 PM

ovidius_naso,

I agree with you, but, if you take the long view, these men have been deprived of a normal life by their upbringing.

I'm not concerned with helping the individual, nor do I think that such a person can be 'repaired', and for those men, it is too late.

Those men are the victims of their society and thus their religion, and I do not really count them as 'enemies' since they are not intelligent/mature/educated enough to understand what they are doing -- they are stunted intellectually and emotionally.

I hope that clear things up for you, I am not vegetarian or pacifist at all :):):)

Imli

Posted by: Imli at December 10, 2005 4:11 PM

Is Daddy, father of these horrible Rapists living in Australia also? If he is,PLEASE DEPORT HIM! What a shocker to HAVE A DOCTOR PRACTISING WITH THESE IDEAS...Rest of Oz may be thankful that 'Pakistani lads' are behind bars and no longer able to rape Infidel girls. Also thought of these Sickos 'practising medecine' makes one want to puke. As for crap about 'not understanding Australian culture' - what a pathetic excuse for evil and ISLAM!!

Posted by: Morgane at December 10, 2005 4:32 PM

Rumi said /quotes:

the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: “There is nothing better for two who love each other than marriage.”(Sahih Al-Jami`, 5200)

Is that a temporary marriage Rumi (Islamic form of legitimized prostitution under the guise of ‘Religion”)? Or just one that involves a nine year old for sex, just like Mohammed (may pigs piss be upon him)?

Why don’t we look at the beating verses in the Koran Rumi? You know, where it is OK to beat a woman? Or what about where her word is only worth half of a mans in court? Yes we know, these women who were raped – how can they be believed – their word is only worth half of that of the mans who raped them!

The sad thing about this article is that they call them “Pakistani’s” – what a joke!!!! They are Muslims!!!!! Pure and simple!!! Daniel Scot, whose Christian cousin in Pakistan was dismembered, shot and murdered by these ‘Peace Loving’ Muslims, is a Pakistani himself. His children are Pakistani – and guess what??!! You will not come across a nicer, truly peace loving man and his family, who has put EVERYTHING on the line in fighting for AUSTRALIA!. Daniel Scot – for those who don’t know is a Christian in Australia, who fled Pakistan from the “Religion of Peace” and has been persecuted here by Muslims via the “Religious Vilification” laws in Victoria –

Oh Dhimmi Bracks has also just INCREASED the severity of these laws so;

WATCH OUT ALL CHRISTIANS WHO SPEAK OUT AGAINST ISLAM – STEVE BRACKS, LABOR (Left wing) PREMIER OF VICTORIA will have you thrown in jail for reading from the Koran, especially if your infidel audience laughs in disbelief!.

DID ANY AUSSIES out there see the events at Cronulla Beach in Sydney??? – it seems after the Muslim bashing of a lifeguard that the Aussies have had a gut full of receiving "Islamic Peace" in this part of Sydney. Does anyone know if anything happened? Or were the brave Jihadi’s to scared to show up (after all it's easier to rape an Aussie girl in the 'here and now' than blow yourself up and get a brothel in the sky)??

This rapist deserves to have his balls cut off – in public – with a knife dipped in pigs blood. Or better yet – give the Muslim Pig a sex change (I’ll be happy for my tax dollars to pay for it) and drop him into Iraq naked.

Imli:- They DO know what they are doing, AND they are beating us - don't EVER underestimate your enemy - Goodness knows our limp wristed politicians have.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 10, 2005 5:50 PM

Oh I forgot to add, after his sentencing he will be sent to one of our “country club” Australian jails where he can get HECS fee free university degrees (courtesy of your tax dollars and the ‘bleeding hearts brigade’), free cable TV (courtesy of your tax dollars and the ‘bleeding hearts brigade’), free gym (courtesy of your tax dollars and the ‘bleeding hearts brigade’), three hearty meals per day (courtesy of your tax dollars and the ‘bleeding hearts brigade’), and any drugs/women he wants whilst in jail thanks to our corrupt officials and the fact that Muslim women wearing Burka’s who visit him WILL NOT be searched due to “Muslim sensitivities” (to bad if you are an infidel woman – YOU WILL be searched).

It would be more punishment sending him back to that Islamic “paradise” Pakistan in exchange for 3 Christian Pakistani families (after all – somebody needs to show that Pakistani’s are not all mad rapists – just the true Muslim ones are).

And after his “rehabilitation” that should last all of…… say 6 months (after all it costs the “politicians” er taxpayers a fortune to keep somebody in jail – let them out – it’s easier to balance the books and ‘pork barrel’ the electorate next election with the savings – Oh for my Muslim readers it’s not PORK barreling, it’s jizya!), well he will be back out raping again!

Long live indiscriminate Multi-culturalism! This sounds harsh – but I only wish that John Howard or Kim Beazly’s daughters (I heard Muslim men like em large) would get raped by one of these arseholes. After all, it’s these political leaders who think that it’s OK for us masses to live with the Muslims. It’s time their privileged families experienced the ‘Religion of Peace’ FIRST HAND! Maybe then Islamic propagation in this country would stop.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 10, 2005 6:03 PM

" TW, then 14, "

I first read this thinking he had raped a woman. I think the age of the girls is also very important.

what culture thinks a young girl is ever asking for it????????

I feel quite sick. A guy has chilren round to his place... gives them alcohol...

The reason girls can go unaccompanied in civilised nations is because most people look after children and can be trusted not to give them alcohol, etc.

Now I know why 9 year olds wear the subjugation scarf. (and why women would not be safe in refugee camps in the earthquake zone according to some mullahs)

I am now reminded of being offered "come with us we have alcohol" by arabs when I was a teenager and deciding this was odd because they were banned from alcohol in that arab country where we were and anyway alcohol was not an attractive offer since I drank with my parents. I now know from my dad the desire some arab men have for children (even tripping to Bombay for boys) and count myself fortunate for declining.

The other side of the coin that makes me sick is the way we breed our girls to be sex toys for the boys in the West. This issue is for another place, suffice it to say that if we don't give our daughters self respect those with no respect for them will easily take advantage.

Posted by: exposesithlords at December 10, 2005 6:31 PM

Rumi wrote:
I wonder how you people blame Islam for this .... yet this person did all these things AGAINST islam and you blame Islam ? bizarre

If I may address Rumi's question: How do we "blame Islam" for this? Well, here's a starter:
The alleged rapist is quoted as saying: "She don't know us, I don't know her, like she was not related to us and she was not wearing any purdah..."

So basically purdah / a burkha serves as a RAPE REPELLANT? Now just how terrible is that. The rapist actually believed he was entitled to rape. May I ask: How did such a guy get into Australia in the first place?

Certainly, I understand Rumi's concern about whether or not this is a question of the failure of Islam. I say it is. Wikipedia says that purdah is "the practice of requiring women to cover their bodies so as to cover their skin and conceal their form." This practice also exists OUTSIDE of Islam, on the Indian subcontinent.

It is suggested that this is a cultural element of Islam, and more of a custom in Saudi Arabia. Whatever the reason for the imposition upon women of the burkha, Islam is behind it.

And for the same goes for the acts of the rapist, be they from religious beliefs, cultural beliefs, or customs, the fact remains that Islam permeates not only religious life, but EVERY aspect of Muslim life. Yes, I say the ingrainment of Islam's subjugation of women has led to the beliefs of the rapist. Again, whether his beliefs arise from culture, custom, or religion, the fact remains that ISLAM is behind ALL of it.

Yes. I blame Islam for the twisted mindset of the rapist. Clearly, such a mindset is another threat to all women, not just women in Islamic countries.

Posted by: Jim at December 10, 2005 7:39 PM

Where did this rapist get all these ideas? From his father, from his family, from his Muslim community. What astonishes me is the monumental arrogance to rape the women of a nation that has allowed you to flee the Islamic hell hole known as Pakistan. Muslim supremacism at it's finest. They just don't give a shit about non Muslims. The women of the their adopted country are scantily clad whores. The only reason these Pakistanis are in Australia is for money. Money comes more easily in Australia. They have no respect for Australians

Posted by: dennisw at December 10, 2005 7:39 PM

Imli

God forbid, I never doubted you were not a vegetarian or a pacifist!

Yet the question of victimhood remains open, as far as I'm concerned. As I said, there's no victim where's benefit from victimhood, whether you know it or not.

As to enemies, i consider an "enemy" someone who seeks to kill/injure me and my own (family, friends, neighbors, country). I don't care why the enemy is my enemy. I don't care why Hitler hated the Jews. I don't care why countless dictators hate their own people.

All I care is that i have a duty to defend myself and my own when attacked, no matter how deluded my enemies are--it's that simple. If some guy tries to rape you, and you have a gun, would you stop and think about his background and possible victimood because of race/class/sexual orientation rather than defend yourself???
It's that simple.

Bless Occam and his razor.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at December 10, 2005 8:40 PM

Rumi, it's because muslim men CAN'T relate to women normally, such as not touching or talking to women to whom they are not related, that they think that they can rape women who are not muslims.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 10, 2005 8:53 PM

sheik yer'mami, I love your comments,, It appears that these people don't seem to have any sexual control, they have to have their poor women covered from top to toe so as others don't lust after them, what weak people.
From reading world papers, Muslims continually rape girls in all the countries that they adopt or are at war with, we should realise that they are just following the example of Mohammad and his merry men, it shows their contempt not only for their country of adoption but of woman as a whole.
These animals swore and carried on in court, and Muslims tried to tell us that these animals were only convicted because they were Muslims, it is no wonder Muslims cannot get on with any other race of people, out of 22 main conflicts in the world today, 20 of them are Muslims and someone else.
I brought a kebab the other day and the Muslims behind the counter looked at me with such absolute hate it scared me,,
Sorry folk but I think it is to late, even if we stop immigration, they just multiply like flies, and the do gooders and the left media, wont let us kick them out, they use the excuse that many have been born here and we are being inhuman...has any country kicked them out yet???..
They want us to stop grace in preschools, Christmas carols, Santa clause, and to change our dress because they cannot control themselves etc, and now this year they want us to change the name of Christmas, all because our ways offend them, each year there is something else. It doesn't matter to them that it will offend 80% of the population by not having these traditions. In many countries this year, Muslims have pushed for changing the name of Christmas. Perhaps their world march is better organised than we thought....I wonder what will offend them next year?? will they push for sharia law as they are in other countries???

Posted by: Gaye at December 10, 2005 8:56 PM

Ther is a common thread her with the rest of Islam: it is never their fault, no matter how heinous the crime they commit. It is always the fault of the victim. They caused the poor Muslimto respond according to his programming, so it isn't the Muslim's fault really and they should be let off to do it again. Wouldn't it be ironic if while this rapist is in jail he gets raped by another male inmate who was just reacting to the way he has been programmed?

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at December 10, 2005 9:29 PM

They are rapists, murderers and crooks
because they follow the code of their holy books
their sacred trilogy,
the koran, the hadiths and the sira,
that program their pitiful reality.

Filled with hate,
they hurt and destroy,
never examining their fate
of arrested development,
their lack of love or joy.

Posted by: the poetess at December 10, 2005 10:25 PM

" After the trial for the other rapes, the dad said basically that what did the victims expect? because in Pakistan women don't go out unaccompanied like they do here. Such arrogance - we are supposed to adjust to their culture, not the other way around?"

We should initiate a new tradition where we castrate the rapists and hang their vile appendage from our rear-view mirrors like disgusting fuzzy dice. It might be a deterrent these unrestrained barbarians can comprehend. We could use the dull, rusty filth encrusted implements they use on their young girls for their initiation into Muslima womenhood...

No, no anethesia allowed.

Posted by: Kemaste at December 10, 2005 10:44 PM

This type of conduct is allowed in Australia? In the US this is called "contempt of court"...

Roxane, I was amazed to hear of what went on during the previous trial. I don't think it is allowed, but unfortunately it seems some of our judges are so PC-addled they allow it from certain "cultures". I doubt I would be able to get away with it.

Read about the previous trial for the other rapes here:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the-brothers-grim/2005/07/21/1121539094247.html

Absolutely shocking. These are the worst savages and unfortunately all our countries are infested with similar ilk. They do not fit here or anywhere civilised.

Posted by: feralee at December 10, 2005 10:55 PM

Well done POETESS-agree with every word.
3rd time Lucky [an interesting handle]
There was a tiny snippet about 'incident at Cronulla Beach' on Prime News. According to this
two life guards were attacked by a gang of 'Middle Eastern appearance.'Police were looking into it..PC news in New Zealand did not report it alas.

Posted by: Morgane at December 10, 2005 11:09 PM

Morgane:
The cronulla beach incident is continuing. Over the past week there have been two violent incidents. 2 life guards were attacked and then a news crew was attacked (nothing too serious). Apparently they have a problem with 'middle-eastern gangs'. But I think the locals have had enough.

This week there have been reports of txt msgs trying to rally people together to take the beach back and increase safety.

Groups of up to 5000 people wearing Aussie flags congregating on the beach today have been reported. Unfortunately, there seem to a few morons in the bunch that have chased down anyone with the 'wrong' skin colour.

I have seen no mention of culture/religion or ethnicity in any reporting except the txt msgs stated 'no lebs'.

So the overall sentiment seems there but some are being unreasonable as always. Hope that gives you and others a bit more info...

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 2:53 AM

Morgane - it seems to be the way all through history - until those in power get 'hurt' by the invaders - they don't care about 'us' (take Queen Boadicea (spelling?) of England. She was happy to be a "Dhimmi" to the Romans so long as her lifestyle was supported. When her way of life was affected - well only then did she stick up for "her people" (used them perhaps??). By then the Roman foothold in England was too strong. I am fearful that Islam will be the same in Australia/USA/Eurabia/Englandstan.

AngryMuppet: I just saw the news - the Aussies were drapped in Aust Flags - and yes anyone looking ME was chased down and out. I am proud to see Aussie's standing up for our culture (even if they did pelt the police - it's not their fault), but it is a MAJOR pity that anyone ME was attacked (so the media says) rather than the Muslim perpetrators of the harrassment that has led to this. I am also fearful of this sort of "mob" violence as my family are not all "white" and there are pleanty of "white" Muslims, who are in effect - enemies of Australia (take David Hicks & Co)

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 3:28 AM

AngryMuppet, the lifeguard bashing was serious to me. One of them was knocked unconscious. These are hardworking, decent kids who volunteer their time to make our beaches safe. And what do these digusting Lebanese thugs do? Attack them. And it was not a one time incident. After that bashing was reported, all of a sudden the truth comes out. Cronulla beachgoers & lifeguards have been putting up with those thugs for 2 to 3 YEARS! Lebanese youth would show up, not to use the beach, but to cause trouble, pick fights, intimidate people, steal lifeguard equipment, and harrass women. Some beachgoers ended up not going to that beach anymore.

Although I don't agree with the embarrassing and unruly behaviour of the protestors today, it is an indication of the disgraceful inaction by our government and police to years of harrassment, intimidation and thuggery by the Lebanese. Vigilante action happens when governments don't protect their citizens. Too bad for the Lebanese but this country is inhabited by Australians and not spineless French.

Posted by: feralee at December 11, 2005 3:33 AM

"Too bad for the Lebanese but this country is inhabited by Australians and not spineless French."

Here! Here! Here! Go the Aussie Sydney-ites!!!!!!

I wonder if John Howard will become a Chirac and introduce "positive" discrimination??? Silly me I forgot we already have it - it doesn't apply to "white" people who were born here!

Now is the time to advertise Jihad Watch's web site to Sydneyites! Tell all your mates who comment about these riots.

It MUST be Muslims causing the trouble - that traitor (was he EVER an Australian??) Kaiser Trad - the Muslim Lebenese spokesman was just on SBS (our multi-cultural TV station, otherwise known as "Sex Before Soccer") was bleeting about Muslims being the victims and how 'un-Australian' todays riot/protest was. What a joke!!! His idea of being Australian is to become Arabic!!! He can GO TO HELL!!!

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 3:40 AM

feralee it is sad that it has come to this. But if there were a similar riot at the Gold Coast (where there are now HEAPS of Muslims) I would be there in a shot.

I AM SICK OF THE RELIGION OF PEACE!!

I DO NOT WANT MY CHILDREN LIVING WITH IT/UNDER IT/ RAPED BY IT.

And lets face it - our politicians DO NOTHING, except saying how "Peaceful" this Islam is. '

Bugger it, bugger the politicians, bugger Islam and anyone who practices it.

I wouldn't pelt the Muslims with rocks/beer bottles etc, but ham, bacon, pigs blood etc.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 3:45 AM

"May I ask: How did such a guy get into Australia in the first place?" - Jim

Jim they get in because Muslims hold office in the immigration department that's how (yes the "I" in ASIO really stands for "idiots")

My wife's church tried to get a Jewish Israeli speaker into the country once. They couldn't get a Visa. They tried 3 times via a Sydney office.

Then finally someone said - 'your speaker is Jewish, the immigration officals are Muslim, try the Brisbane office'

And guess what - they got the Visa straight away when trying via Brisbane.

They are in many levels of our government.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 3:55 AM

3rdTimeLucky: You are right. It is such a shame and a detriment to the cause that the mob mentality has caused anyone ethnic to bear the brunt of the mob. But at least people are waking up. From the news, the days events progressed from a cheerful bar-b-que atmosphere with people happy and simply wanting their beach to be peaceful once again to more of a hunt for anyone ethnic as the day grew on and more alcohol was consumed.

Feralee:
Sorry about that. I think I meant to say "not life threatening" rather than "not serious". Thanks for pointing it out.

AngryMuppet

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 4:23 AM

3rdtimelucky, did you manage to keep from vomiting up your dinner when that traitorous Trad was on the TV? Muslims the victims? LOL! No mention of his brethren causing all that trouble for the past few years though, eh? No, of course not, he'll want to sweep that under the carpet and twist this into one of those "backlashes". Yes, the mob just showed up for no reason, to be "unAustralian", not because they were fed up with the inaction by the cops and pollies to years of harrassment and intimidation and violence by Lebanese thugs.

Problem is, the Premier of NSW, Morris Iemma, is the member for Lakemba, a predominantly Muslim area. So he won't do anything that might cost him his seat. He is a consummate vote-whore, and does not represent Australians.

AngryMuppet, no worries!

Posted by: feralee at December 11, 2005 4:50 AM

For those following the events in Cronulla...
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17531782-2,00.html

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 5:43 AM

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3907
some photos of the riots

go Aussie :D

Posted by: meredith at December 11, 2005 6:43 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/2005/12/11/1134235939302.html

sorry these are the photos, the other is a blog in Oz where Islamists and their lefty supporters debate... i didnt mean to leave it but drop by anyone who feels like explining sharia to the left wing lol

Posted by: meredith at December 11, 2005 6:45 AM

I was there on Cronulla beach today.
Yeah, I know I am taking a risk giving out any information about my whereabouts but we gotta be brave and not let these thugs intimidate us.
Besides, if any islamic goons turn up at my place I'll feed them to my dog.

Police choppers hovered over Cronulla all day and hundreds of policemen as well as many mounted police were evident.
The crowd was huge...perhaps larger than reported at 5000, as many people were arriving as others were leaving. Many were carrying Australian flags and the mood was generally grimly cheerfull.
Kinda like a winning football crowd later in the day.. people were walking around giving the V for victory sign, cheering and waving flags.

It seems Sydneysiders are catching on about the real nature of Islam.
The media is still 99% dhimmi, although they did describe one group of youths chased into a toilet block and bailed up for an hour as 'muslims'.
An ambulance turned up and transported that group out, ecorted by dozens of police, both mounted and on foot.
The crowd hurled bottles at the ambulance as it departed.

It is terrible that many of middle-eastern appearance were targeted by the crowd.
The trouble of course is that the insidious disease of Islam is not always readily identifiable.

Islam, the death cult should be banned and all immigration stopped, all mosques bulldozed and the cursed land left vacant.
I mean, if Charles Manson called his little group of satanic murderers a religion would they believe him...so why do we believe Mohommed?

I saw footage on the news tonight of an anglo-saxon girl straddling and pummeling what I assume was a 'middle eastern' girl who was on her back.

Very strong feelings evident today.
Australia will be no walkover for Islam.

Posted by: Mike_W at December 11, 2005 6:58 AM

Good on you Mike.

One guy who was there today has been taken to hospital with a knife in his back after protecting three female companions after they were threatened with being beaten and raped by guys of middle eastern apearance.

Another groups of people of middle eastern appearance went on a rampage through 1km in another suburn of sydney. Beating anything in sight with baseball bats and steel bars.

It has spread beyond cronulla...

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 7:17 AM

Australia will be no walkover for Islam

I think you're right there, Mike. No matter how hard the media tries to paint a different picture of things, people know the reality. We talk to each other. We feel no fear in saying what's really going on. The word's getting around, despite the media's attempt to give a different story. We're not stupid. Sometimes we're a bit too irreverent. We love taking the piss out of upstarts, it's one of our national sports. Islam doesn't have a chance against the true Aussie. We love to target whingers the most, and Islam is the biggest whinger around, even bigger than the Poms. We're not like France, or Canada or the UK. We're not stifled by some need to be polite and nice. Attack our true blue Aussie icon, like the beach, and you've got Buckley's.

Posted by: feralee at December 11, 2005 7:17 AM

Good stuff Mike

People will condem the violence from the Aussie side, but it will harldy matter now, strangly this gives me real hope, I had no idea so many people had had a gut full. I think in a way it gives Australia hope to see ourselves standign up where france let down the west and its citizens so bad...

you will all get massive support from the Oz public,

Posted by: meredith at December 11, 2005 9:08 AM

Islam produces people like that rapist.
But islam also produces people like rumi as well.
The first one practices the faith, by hating and despising kafirs.
Then when there is trouble, the second one (rumi) steps in to defend the faith.

What else can you expect from an unworthy religion that, instead of acknowledhing the misery it causes, sneaks away and leaves its followers high and dry after having put all that hatred and violence against unbelievers in their head.

All so typically islamic.

Posted by: rocky at December 11, 2005 11:32 AM

I have never been to Australia and have not seen my Father's cousin for 17 years since her last visit. But I called up google and found this site http://www.immi.gov.au/settle/states/customs.htm
Australia Customs from the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indiginous Affairs.

"Australia is a diverse society. The variety of clothing which people wear reflects this diversity.......
Many Australians live close to the beach and the sea. This has led to a tradition of wearing very casual or little clothing on the beach and surrounding areas, particularly on hot days. This does not mean that people who are dressed to go to the beach or swimming are prostitutes or inviting others to touch them. Uninvited touching is unacceptable, regardless of what clothes people are wearing. People are protected under the law from physical assault."

So the authorities are well aware of this intolerable tendency

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 11, 2005 12:17 PM

So more true-blooded Aussies show up to defend their beaches against encroaching islamists than muslims who "protested" against terror in Washington, D.C. Why is this not surprising? When push comes to shove, the average person in the West will shove back -- hard. The islamists have a warped view of our societies thanks to the liberal loonies who support islamist causes. The islamists just can't realize that those types of self-hating morons are a minority and, as stated above, the word is getting out about islam. If our governmental agencies will not protect the societies which they are charged to protect, individuals will. This is going to get ugly, very ugly. The "take back the beach" protest is just one more fall-out of namby-pamby multi-culturalism sans any immigrant accountability to adapt, to learn.

Posted by: Rick at December 11, 2005 3:32 PM

"Problem is, the Premier of NSW, Morris Iemma, is the member for Lakemba, a predominantly Muslim area. So he won't do anything that might cost him his seat. He is a consummate vote-whore, and does not represent Australians"

-feralee

Feralee this is scary!! I'm not a Labor voter, but I actually had respect for Bob Carr (the last Premier - I think thats his name?), at least he used give out the odd angry shot over the Islamists "bow".

But this new bloke the cockaroaches have got seems like a real pussy, oh and if he has any balls, a real wanker. Member for Lakemba hey? No wonder he looks like he has something shoved right up his bum!

Kaiser Triad! Mate sometimes I wish people like my Grandmother (feiry Scots woman) were alive still. She'd be happy just to walk up and shoot the bastard - regardless of what the "law" said! No wonder that generation won WW2!!

I see the riots have spread throughout Sydney!

Mike - what was it like? Was it really raced based like the (generally) lying media are reporting? Or are the people aware that it is really the encroachment of Islam?? I heard that an Italian man got attacked. The media said it was a case of the mob mistaking him for a ME. Was he Islamic? Was it a case overall of anyone who was not white being attacked? For instance in the beach communities I have lived in there have been heaps of Aboriginals, TI's, Maori's etc - all of whom would have been on the "anglo" side of the riots yesterday if it were their beaches being harrased by Islamic scum.

Mike - you are so lucky to be there! While these riots worry me a little (as I said - I actually have a true "multi-cultural" - but dinki di non white Aussie family), I am SOOOOOOO bouyed by the fact that it seems many Sydneyites are awake to the threat, even if they don't yet fully understand it. As a born and bred QLD'er I always thought you southerners had lost the plot a bit re multi-culturalism (after all I get to talk to some of the odd 10,000 per week of you whom move up here!). I am so happy that this appears to be an awakening. I only hope that it's momentum continues.

Mike if it happens again - turn up with a BIG BANNER advertising Jihad Watch. Maybe then people will see that this has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with Islam. That way also when that snake - Kaiser Traid - gets on the TV spewing out his seductive venom, the informed JW masses will just say - "BS!!!!!"

"Problem is, the Premier of NSW, Morris Iemma, is the member for Lakemba, a predominantly Muslim area. So he won't do anything that might cost him his seat. He is a consummate vote-whore, and does not represent Australians"

-feralee

Feralee this is scary!! I'm not a Labor voter, but I actually had respect for Bob Carr (the last Premier - I think that’s his name?), at least he used give out the odd angry shot over the Islamists "bow".

But this new bloke the Cockroaches have got seems like a real pussy, oh and if he has any balls, a real wanker. Member for Lakemba hey? No wonder he looks like he has something shoved right up his bum (it’s probably an Islamo-facist who got stuck up there during Friday prayers when he was “visiting” the Mosque, you know – head up some other mans hairy arse bowing to the black rock at Mecca)!

Kaiser Triad! Mate sometimes I wish people like my Grandmother (fiery Scots woman) were alive still. She'd be happy just to walk up and shoot the bastard - regardless of what the "law" said! No wonder that generation won WW2!! I cannot wait to see that generations courage reawakened in our generation. Apart from Anthony Mundine – he is one of the few people who I’d like to………..

I see the riots have spread throughout Sydney! Maybe some toffee nosed northern suburb people will finally experience TRUE tribalism er…. Multi-culturalism!

Mike - what was it like? Was it really raced based like the (generally) lying media are reporting? Or are the people aware that it is really the encroachment of Islam?? I heard that an Italian man got attacked. The media said it was a case of the mob mistaking him for a ME. Was he Islamic? Was it a case overall of anyone who was not white being attacked? For instance in the beach communities I have lived in there have been heaps of Aboriginals, TI's, Maori's etc - all of whom would have been on the "anglo" side of the riots yesterday if it were their beaches being harrased by Islamic scum.

Mike - you are so lucky to be there! While these riots worry me a little (as I said - I actually have a true "multi-cultural" - but dinki di non white Aussie family), I am SOOOOOOO bouyed by the fact that it seems many Sydneyites are awake to the threat, even if they don't yet fully understand it. As a born and bred QLD'er I always thought you southerners had lost the plot a bit re multi-culturalism (after all I get to talk to some of the odd 10,000 per week of you whom move up here!). I am so happy that this appears to be an awakening. I only hope that it's momentum continues.

Mike if it happens again - turn up with a BIG BANNER advertising Jihad Watch. Maybe then people will see that this has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with Islam. That way also when that snake - Kaiser Triad - gets on the TV spewing out his seductive venom, the informed JW masses will just say - "BS!!!!!"

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 5:05 PM

Sorry about the double - yet single post. One has spelling errors - the other has less so!

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 5:10 PM

Angry Muppet, Feralee, Mike

I saw a debate on the PC 7 Sunrise with Kaiser and Stan (the "Beauty and the Beast" bloke- the radio jock). Stan was brilliant!

He first ripped it into David (the Dick) Kosch for calling him a radio jock. He then proceeded to tear apart Kaiser (tri hard Aussie) Traid. You should have seen the look on his face. He was left almost speachless! I doubt very much that kaiser will appear again with Stan!

Stan basically said - Yes the riots on the Aussie side were wrong - but hey - don't forget that Lebanese Youth have been terrorising these suburbs for 20 years now, and the locals are sick of it.

He was saying to Triad - take your victim mentality and shove it where it fits! Stan was brilliant!

I will be listening intently to John Laws today (we only get Stan at night on a fuzzy AM station)

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 11, 2005 5:16 PM

3rdTimeLucky:
I only caught the last of that interview this morning but I cannot remember seeing an interview where I was impressed with Kayser Trad. The only time he seems to be in control is when he is able to give the "we're victims" speech without being questioned.

Although I would have to agree that things got out of hand yesterday there is no need for people to be taken to hospital with a knife in their back or for the damage that occurred in Marouba last night.

And I must say that I am also not very happy with the way this is being reported. Almost every article I have come across makes no distinction between the two groups. You could very easily assume that it was the mob from Cronulla that caused all the damage and violence during the night and not that this is the type of event that they were protesting about.

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 6:13 PM

Yes, the reporting leaves something to be desired. Talks about "gangs" on both sides. No, there are no gangs but Lebanese gangs. There are no Aussie gangs. They are just people who got together to demonstrate against shameful govt and police inaction against the constant troublemaking and violence by Lebanese gangs in Sydney. That was at Cronulla yesterday and yes, it got out of hand. But then the Lebs took revenge in Maroubra but little mention of their ethnicity. I guess it's embarrassing to show what the Lebs are like. It might shatter the myth of multicultural heaven they like to insist exists.

Granny - thanks for bringing that up. Pretty crazy when you have to put that sort of information out. Not that it does any good. These Middle Eastern gangs who harrass sunbathing women at our beaches are mostly all born here. A sure sign that some groups just will never fit well here, will never respect our way of life. Hence the Cronulla riot - they were claiming that beach as "theirs". And aggressively trying to pursue that claim. As they do everywhere they infest.

Posted by: feralee at December 11, 2005 7:21 PM

At least someone seems to be aware that this is not simply fuelled by racism:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17538309-29277,00.html

RIOTING at Cronulla Beach in Sydney was revenge for the Bali bombings and the September 11 attacks, federal Liberal backbencher Bruce Baird said today.

Mr Baird, whose Cook electorate takes in many of the south eastern Sydney suburbs affected by a wave of violence at the weekend, said tensions had been simmering within the primarily Anglo-Saxon community against people of Middle Eastern descent for some time.

He said many locals were angry, particularly after six women from the area were killed in the 2002 Bali bombings.
-----
Not a perfect representation of what went on but better than generic "gang violence". It is a great shame that a number of people were attacked simply because of their skin colour as it is preventing anyone who relies on public opinion to support the Australian way of life.

In the current climate it is safer to condemn all violence and this effectively groups the freedom and peace loving Australians toegther with the gangs that are behaving in a much worse manner.

As a comparison, the Cronulla group started the day with Aussie flags, barbies and a carnival atmosphere saying "This beach is ours". It was only when large amounts of alcohol was consumed that things turned ugly. In Maroubra on the other hand car loads also turned up shouting "This beach is ours". Rather than sausages though, they brought guns according to one report.

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 7:58 PM

posted by 3rdtimelucky :

"Mike - what was it like? Was it really raced based like the (generally) lying media are reporting? Or are the people aware that it is really the encroachment of Islam?? I heard that an Italian man got attacked. The media said it was a case of the mob mistaking him for a ME. Was he Islamic? Was it a case overall of anyone who was not white being attacked?"

3rdtimelucky, yes it was pretty racist, which is a real shame.
Most of the crowd were there in a show of solidarity with no violent intentions I believe, although a large mob of angry young guys was getting into the booze and fighting.
Innocent people were bashed.
When I saw the bottles being thrown at the ambulance I was shocked.

This morning I went for a walk and noticed a big pool of blood on the footpath.
Ugly stuff.

In all the talk shows and media this morning everyone still have their heads firmly buried in the sand and refuse to believe any suggestion there might be a problem with Islam.
A Lebanese Christian girl called a talk show and explained to the host how she knew by personal experience that the Muslim community were determiined not to integrate into Australian society and could be the problem and she was dismissed as a crank...typical.
Everything else is being blamed...beer, racism, the schools, poor parenting...everything except Islam.
It's amazing how Islam derives merit by association...simply by calling itself a religion.

Posted by: Mike_W at December 11, 2005 8:57 PM

Mike:
There is always a lot of debate about the accomplishments of Islam. There does not seem to be a great deal of evidence to show that advancements in the fields of science, technology, art, etc. However, to convince the world that Islam is not a murderous, political idealogy but is in fact a peaceful religion is the greatest accomplishment of Islam in my opinion.

And that is the single most important reason why Islam has become almost unquestionable in most societies. I do not beilieve this will remain so for much longer.

A peaceful religion does not encourage or assist its followers to commit the violent acts that are becoming all too common and the world is beginning to wake up.

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 11, 2005 9:18 PM

Angry Muppet,

You are so right!

Islam's greatest accomplishment, and not a mean one, is to have convinced the media, the political elites and the intellectuals worldwide that it is not the plain murderous bullshit that it actually is.

Posted by: rocky at December 12, 2005 2:38 AM

I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about racism. It was just a tiny minority of hooligans that hijacked the days festivities...

Posted by: AngryMuppet at December 12, 2005 3:40 AM

The dear old BBC's version was what I would expect. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4520218.stm

Racism roundly condemned. Unacceptable says the PM. Drunken young men chanted Aussie, Aussie, Aussie... Oi, Oi, Oi (very cockney) and a Muslem woman lost her hijab. Meanwhile "The violence then spread to other parts of Sydney, with retaliatory attacks by groups of youths of Middle East appearance, who stabbed one man and damaged dozens of cars."
I don't need to have set foot in Australia to read between those lines, this is universal.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 12, 2005 5:28 AM

The bitch-reporter I saw tonight on TV was almost hysterical in her 'racism, racism, racism- what else can it be'- report that I'm still swearing when I still think about it...

And then they interviewed another space-cadet/moon-bat
Uni-professor-bitch (apologies to the ladies!) who gave us some very detached 'opinion' about the birds and the bees, useless...

Then the polit-props, the vote-whores, and a copper, believe it or not: With a name that had 'moron' in it! Did you see it?

OHOHOH!!! This is gonna turn sour.

This is the Muahmmedans, the traitors and the whores against the people of Australia! we gonna have a long hot summer ahead!
Why are the Muahmedans from Lebanon allowed to stay in Australia anyway? Isn't Lebanon 'peaceful' now? Let them row back...

Hey boyz, I have just the boat for ya!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at December 12, 2005 5:37 AM

@ ovidius_naso:

You asked:

"If some guy tries to rape you, and you have a gun, would you stop and think about his background and possible victimood because of race/class/sexual orientation rather than defend yourself???"

Hey now =)

as mentioned, I'm no veggie pacifist. So, the
correct sequence in this case is to shoot, then mourn. And if I don't have a gun, I'll poke his eye out and then call him an ambulance :P

However, he _still_ is a victim, because acting like that is not really an informed choice he has made, because he has no concept of how to behave. He is a symptom, but not the cause. 'Winning' against him does not solve our problem :(

Now, my aim is to fix things and to get people to behave like human beings, where-ever they are, and revenge doesn't really come into that.

Muslims are are just as able as we are to reach the full human potential, however, their religion prevents them.

Islam is a disease that attacks societies.

This is fixable, and moreover, unless it is fixed, it'll re-infect and victimise uneducated communities that need a simple cooking recipe on how to live.

We cannot afford to let Islam fill the void in their heads!

Imli

Posted by: Imli at December 12, 2005 6:34 AM