Another Oh-For-Petes-Sake Alert ...

Pete really has his work cut out. While we're at it, why not learn about women's rights, science, art, literature, wine-making, comedy and animal welfare. There's so much those Saudis could teach us.

Even if they were good at crowd control, why do we need to know how to control two million Muslim pilgrims? It isn't as if they are all going to come here.

Then again...

Posted by: Interested at December 22, 2005 8:57 AM

Exactly what is there to learn other than the use of a hard stick across the ass.

Posted by: SINGH at December 22, 2005 9:00 AM

And the English know about that anyway.

Posted by: Interested at December 22, 2005 9:10 AM

The more we have to do with Muslim mores and manners, Muslim ways and Muslim byways, inevitably there will be more opportunities for Infidels to be fooled, to be inveigled, to be impressed, to be treated with such outward respect, to be subject to people well-versed in using personal charm (those soft voices, those looks of deep sincerity, the whole bit), that the clarity, and resolve, of many will be weakened.

People like to be treated well. The gracious host with the limitless resources, who invites you to "see for yourself" what "our problems are," who invites you (all expenses paid, and a fat honorarium at the end, with promises of future invitations if you play your cards right) to a "Dialogoue of Civlisations" in Marrakesh, the Turkish officials who "have you over to discuss what Turkey is doing now to comply with E.U. requirements and why it makes sense to let Turkey into the tent, in order to encourage the forces of moderate Islam."

And then there is the surprise gift at the end: the wrapped dishdashas for your kids, that silver dagger you admired, perhaps even a rug or two if you happen to be in the right place ("No, it was nothing, really. When you said you were interested in buying a rug and I couldn't accompany you to the souk that day, I felt badly, so I thought I'd just get it and have it wrapped and waiting at the plane when you left. Tell your wife I hope it works in her dining room"). Do you know just how easy it is to set up a warm feeling inside people? How they will trade their own futures, their own security, for a dishdasha or a dagger or a rug, or a fat envelope with cash, or promise of a donation to one's "academic center" or anything else?

The morale of the story is: Radix malorum cupiditas est. And the Muslims and Arabs are past masters at this. The buying up of Western hirelings, or the buying off of intelligent critics, has been going on for decades, all over the Western world. For a while it did not seem dangerous, but merely disgusting. Now it is traitorous. And should be investigated, and all recipients of Arab and Muslim money publicly exposed, humiliated, and shunned.

And that goes, not ony all those "international business consultants" who "have a special expertise in the Middle East" because they were diplomats or intelligence agents in the Arab countries (check out Raymond Close, James Akins, tutti quanti), but for those who at such places as Kissinger Associates, think there is nothing wrong with profiting from their government "service" (as they like to primly and self-righteouslly call it) -- i.e., contacts, influence -- to prevent the rest of us, those who are not in the game, from understanding the full malevolence of those who pay them so handsomely to "advise" them on how to handle public and other relations.

If only one could force all of these people to disgorge their traitorous take.

Posted by: Hugh at December 22, 2005 9:27 AM

Ridiculous. Poor Brits, not only can they not trust the government or their media to tell them the truth about Islam, but the police as well. And the purpose of this visit is what exactly? To churn out more British Arabists? Sorry, but I think they are "full up"!

Posted by: igor at December 22, 2005 9:37 AM

I guess with the foreign office stating that the religion of islam is noble and our values are their values, we need to ensure we do correlate values in practice.

I remember 100 iranians crushed to death in 1998. (while the devil must have been soo relieved that 100 less people will throw stones at him. ha)

The Saudi government said that it was Allah's will and wherever in the world they would have been they would have died at that moment. It just so happened they were in Mecca.

I'm waiting for our police and government to say the same. I can see it now after the next terrorist attack or next Hillsborough:

"HM Government says that it is Allah's will all these civilians died - it just so happened they were in the same place. Therefore there is no need for a public inquiry into the policing, intelligence service, or safety. And Allah knows best"

Come to think of it, in a more subtle way this seems to be the response of 7/7. Maybe our values are already like theirs and it is me in denial....

Posted by: exposesithlords at December 22, 2005 10:08 AM

I presume there will be non-moslem police going to mecca in line with the anti-discriminatory and diversity policies of the west yorks police.

If not, then I think we need to send diversity trainers to the police and possibly to the saudi authorities.

Will anyone with links to west yorks police enlighten us please?

Posted by: exposesithlords at December 22, 2005 10:11 AM

typo alert 100 killed was 88 not 98. sorry.

Posted by: exposesithlords at December 22, 2005 10:12 AM

Funny how we never hear of massive stampedes/numerous deaths at the Vatican... I'm sure (most of) the visitors are just as Faithful in their pilgrimage to the Holy of Holies.

However I have no doubt that people have succumbed to various medical problems (and even old age) while standing in that gigantic crowd for hour after hour.

Posted by: Gary at December 22, 2005 10:18 AM

Wait a second. British police? In the Hejaz? Or is it only the cities of Medina, Mecca (and Jidda?) that are not open to non-muslims?

Posted by: Gary at December 22, 2005 10:21 AM

It was my understanding as well that only Muslims are allowed to take the hajj. I bet they make the poor things say the shahada or something so as not to offend Allah.

Posted by: kafira at December 22, 2005 10:34 AM

What could this visit conceivably be about? Does West Yorkshire have crowds of two million? Is this merely a sop by the British Police, to allow its Muslim members to accept Saudi largesse, or is it supposed to be an event that will somehow win favor of local Muslims, in order to try yet again to get them to offer real, as opposed to feigned or no suport, for the institutions of the Infidel nation-state? How much of this stuff needs to go on before bobbies and others finally decide that perhaps they really should find out about the tenets and attitudes that Islam teaches, and what conclusioons need to be drawn? Bleak conclusions, unhappy results. But with one virtue: they will be based not on wishes and denials, but the truth.

Posted by: Hugh at December 22, 2005 10:35 AM

This is how this should be played...

West Yorkshire Police should say that they would gladly accept the invitation from the Saudi Interior Ministry but that ACC Akhtar simply can't be spared (What with all the building of 'community relations' to be done!). The would instead like to send ACC (Insert the name of any non-Muslim officer here).

The Saudis will of course reply that it is simply not possible since only believers can enter Mecca.

West Yorkshire Police should react furiously to this obvious example of intolerance and stress that since the promotion of diversity is one of their 'key objectives' they will sever further discussions with the Saudi Interior ministry. A press release denouncing Saudi 'racism', 'disrespect for diversity' and 'promotion of religous Apartheid' should follow.

Followed in turn by a squadron of flying pigs.

Posted by: PJS1 at December 22, 2005 11:05 AM

I think most of those killed at the Hajj, deserve the Darvin Awards.

Posted by: pr126 at December 22, 2005 11:10 AM

Dear Seamystic,

It is comments like yours that prevents me from recommending this site to my PC blinkered friends. They will immediately latch on to it as justification for dismissing JW/DW as a 'hate site' and navigate to the online version of the NY Times for an 'accurate' view of the world.

It is also comments like these that get picked up by the likes of CAIR to show why Robert Spencer should be ignored.

The first step in this worldwide struggle must be to win over those who have no idea of the magnitude and nature of the threat that they are facing. And you're not helping.

(Then again if you're a Muslim troll who wants to damage the work of this site you already knew that!)

Posted by: PJS1 at December 22, 2005 11:42 AM

In the summer of 1987, Saudi police supervising the hajj beat to death hundreds of fellow Muslims. The estimated numbers of killed range from 400 to 1500. Supposedly it all started with an illegal demo by some Iranians who unfurled banners with Khomeinist slogans on them. Being shi`ites, they didn't have the right to make a demo in Mecca. Maybe Exposes was referring to this event but got her year and her numbers of killed wrong.
If anybody recalls the Western press reaction, it was very protective of our dear Saudi friends. They just hadda do it to protect themselves, ran the refrain in nearly all the Western MSM, like the Int'l Herald Trib [a truly revolting rag, fully suited to being published in the same city as LeMonde, although the IHT may be even worse]. I remember those op ed columns back then. If anybody has doubts that Saudi Arabia enjoys special baraka from the Western press [inc. in the USA] and from Western govts, then the supportive reaction to that 1987 massacre should be proof enough.

But when less than six months later, Israel reacted mildly to Arab riots now called the first "intifada," every time a soldier shot a tear gas gun was a war crime and the Mecca massacre of the summer before was justifiably forgotten [actually, it probably never happened and only us paranoid Jews could possibly imagine that it had ever occurred].
The contrasting press reactions to these two events constitute solid proof of the MSM's crude bias against Israel. If anybody needed more proof.

Posted by: Eliyahu at December 22, 2005 12:40 PM

Is this some kind of joke or what? What can the Saudi Savages teach the British about crowd control?
Maybe how to whip the women who show an ankle.
The 7th century savages could hardly teach anyone anyting except - How to behead in one blow, how to cut off hands and feet,How to beat women etc.

Posted by: faqi at December 22, 2005 12:52 PM

Why stop there, they can also learn

Hostage negotiation from Germany
Riot control from France
Fiscal management from the UN
Border control from the US
Human Rights form China

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at December 22, 2005 3:20 PM

They are just preparing for the new 70,000 seat mosque to be built in London.

Britain you are doomed!

Posted by: km at December 22, 2005 3:40 PM

I wonder what wonderful theological cocktails Constable Akhtar might imbibe during his stay in Mecca. My guess is he comes back more devout than ever.

Posted by: Cornelius at December 22, 2005 3:53 PM

“According to Straw, of the 25,000 British Muslims who performed the Haj last year, about 4,100 received government help. “

Is the British Government fond of helping pilgrims of other faiths as well? What citizenry voted for this use of tax money? Has Constable Akhtar already taken his Hajj? Perhaps this is his way of being one of the 4,100 sent with government money? He’s a sly one, that Akhtar!

“A medical clinic for British pilgrims will be based at the Al-Hateem hotel on Ibrahim Al-Khalil Street. It will have separate clinics and waiting areas for male and female pilgrims and will provide medical treatment free of cost to those who need it.”

And where exactly will the mobile morgue be located?

Posted by: XRDC at December 22, 2005 4:16 PM

For what are the Saudis preparing the British? Certainly nothing good.

Posted by: epg at December 22, 2005 4:19 PM

Don’t feel sorry for the pilgrims that die while on Hajj. From the pilgrims perspective, It is hoped for. Some excerpts:

“Dying while on Hajj is considered to be very auspicious”

“…those who die during Hajj enter paradise.”

"I wish I was among the pilgrims who died on Sunday," Kamal Shahada, an Egyptian pilgrim, said. "I would have gone to heaven, because dying in these holy sites of Islam would assure one a place in heaven," he said, echoing a widespread conviction in the Islamic world. Libyan Muhammad Taylamun agreed. "The two million faithful who gathered every year at the holy sites for the pilgrimage hope to have the honour of being buried in this sacred soil," he said.

“The scale of the tragedy which cast a shadow over the Hajj certainly provoked compassion among the gathering, but fatalism predominates among "the guests of God".”

If fatalism predominates, why try to change or avoid tragedy, why not provoke the crowds in the hopes of “forcing” gods will? Apparently some do this already:

Pilgrims converged on the main pillar from all directions, shouting "God is greatest!" while others chanted "Harder! Harder!" as the faithful threw their stones, Reuters reported

“I have seen imams taking exercise to get stronger to hit just like an arrow into the crowd.” said Dr. Abdullah Omar Nasseef
**************************************************

"I assure you that all the preparations are always made, but we don't always know God's intentions. What happened will be evaluated," Mr Madani said."

Grand Mufti Shaikh Abd al-Aziz explained Sunday's stampede as "the will of God", but stressed the council intended "to seek by all means to avoid similar accidents" in the future.

So…, the goal is to evaluate and thwart(avoid) the will of God?

Thirteen Egyptians were among the dead and four South Africans are reported missing, the news agency said

Only South Africans?…mystery here…were they trampled into fine dust? Used as cheeseballs by famished pilgrims perhaps?

Posted by: XRDC at December 22, 2005 4:20 PM

Hugh states:

The more we have to do with Muslim mores and manners, Muslim ways and Muslim byways, inevitably there will be more opportunities for Infidels to be fooled, to be inveigled, to be impressed, to be treated with such outward respect, to be subject to people well-versed in using personal charm (those soft voices, those looks of deep sincerity, the whole bit), that the clarity, and resolve, of many will be weakened.

It appears that our government is begging for a bruising . . .
In addition to
Saudis sending thousands of students here

now our brilliant INS officials think this is a bright idea . . .32-YEAR-OLD MOROCCAN Islamist chosen to attend Johns Hopkins and for further training at the U.S. Congress and the Canadian Parliament.

Must we train our enemy so completely - eh? Tancredo, are you reading this?

Posted by: justamomof4 at December 22, 2005 5:17 PM

Hugh, those "trainees" are Muslims, all they are getting is free Hajj trips, and inculcation in Wahhabiyyah..more radicalization, this time at British tax payers expense.

And the Muslims teach nothing about Crowd Control, and there is nothing to learn from the Saudis, remember the 200 French Paratroopers that had to be Shahadeed, so they could put down the riots in 1980, which the Saudi National Guard couldn't or wouldn't handle.

Posted by: Nariz at December 22, 2005 5:31 PM

He wants to see first hand how the Saudi police manage over two million pilgrims -

Yea, nothing that the trusty old AK47 can't handle. Who cares if a few Muslims die in the Haj? Just so long as they keep coming and spending their money in Saudi Arabia - just like Mohammed insured, as his family owned the pilgrimage rights to the pagan center.

Hugh - yes the Arabs can turn on the charm. I foresee one day that a politician in the West will rise up, fueled with Saudi Oil money and fix all of 'our' problems, build infrastructure, turn our economies around. The dumb masses will love him. The whole time he is in office he will be Islamisisng our West. By the time the masses wake up, it will be to late - we will exchange our freedom for a few pennies and a 'miracle' worker.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 22, 2005 7:43 PM

'I foresee one day that a politician in the West will rise up, fueled with Saudi Oil money and fix all of 'our' problems, build infrastructure, turn our economies around. '~3rdtimelucky

Hmmm. And would probably suggest putting a computer chip into either the hand or the forehead.... where have I heard that before?

Posted by: Gary at December 22, 2005 8:08 PM

A show of a yearly Arab venerability found in Muslim mob control. Of course, this is only a once a year massive herd of stampeding pilgrims that can't wait to die while throwing rocks in Mecca.
I would have to say, " I'll get right back to you on that for Muslim mob control", but wait a minute, maybe this has something to do with "welfare" and hundreds of thousands of Peace loving Muslims getting ready for London's neighborhood Olympics?

Posted by: SirSeth at December 22, 2005 9:05 PM

They are just trying to show off their [what they think] is their strengh??

In how many people they have all over the world to make trouble??

But this will back fire on them because the British will look to who they can trust and all mulsums who enjoy the FREEDOMS of the West in thier country will soon be exported to mulsum lands without food??

I see this Back Firing on the Saudis Watch them Back out of the Deal ??

Or maybe they will say it can only be mulsum police who are allowed to come and if this is the case the Brits had better not take the offer??

Nothing like 2,000,000 people going around a big rock to show your strengh??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 23, 2005 12:32 AM

Wherever they have settled, Jews have always produced wealth.

In 624AD, when the Mohammed and his Moslems laid seige to Banu Qaynuqa -- and threatened these peace-loving hard working Jews with genocide, ran them off to Syria, and stole their wealth -- remains a perfectly valuable object lesson for every infidel to this very day.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

This Irish Catholic would like to extend heartfelt Happy Hannukah greetings to all Jews everywhere.

Natural allies, just like our Hindu and Buddhist friends. Atheists and pagans, too. Allies all.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 23, 2005 12:07 PM

Maybe, Chief Constable Akhtar will make it to Mecca in time to watch and learn "Eye Gouging".
He will need the expertise when Sharia law is proclaimed in the UK

Posted by: faqi at December 23, 2005 4:01 PM

I wonder if they will show the PC Brits "Chop Chop Square" in action before Friday prayers - after all, those Islamic Apostates and infidels don't really need their heads!

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 24, 2005 1:24 AM