Reminds me of the ad in Italy a few years ago. Pun written on the dungareed rump of a model:

"Chi mi ama, mi sega."

Indignation. But no death threats.

Posted by: Hugh at December 30, 2005 1:33 PM

Hugh,

I remember those ads. If I am not mistaken the jeans themselves were actually called "Jesus Jeans," just in case anyone missed the point.

Yrs
Robert

Posted by: jihadwatch at December 30, 2005 1:42 PM

"The jeans are being shipped to Norway, Denmark, Britain, the Netherlands, France and Australia. Andersson said they're working on introducing them in the United States and elsewhere"

Middle East, anyone?

Posted by: cruzado at December 30, 2005 1:51 PM

This actually sets up a useful "Goofus & Gallant" comparison of Islam (Goofus) and Christanity (Gallant)."

Picture the cartoon in Highlights:

"Goofus cannot bear an insult. He directs his followers to act rashly, emotionally, and violently. Many people die."

"Gallant, armed with that last Beatitude (Matt. 5:11-12), gets on with his life, realizing that harrassment is part of the undertaking of faith, and if you let the bastards get to you, they win."

Posted by: Shinoliite at December 30, 2005 2:48 PM

I like the idea. Now, the man needs to add a few more designs, like perhaps the cool Mohammed picci with the bomb in his turban, from the Danish artist. That on a butt pocket would look rather fetching I'd think!

Imli

Posted by: Imli at December 30, 2005 2:52 PM

Yep, those Christians are a real problem in the world today. All the terrorism they commit.
/sarcasm
Now let's see the jeans insulting islam, you know why the idiot insults Christians...because he knows they won't try to kill him for his stupidity. (Unlike muslims who find offense in everything, even music or kite flying...or women's faces.)

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 30, 2005 4:08 PM

Here is an article about European women reverting.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20051227/wl_csm/oconverts;_ylt=AsAx7HSD7BDDWGEB.gU3D56s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 30, 2005 4:10 PM

Carolyn2 writes:
" Now let's see the jeans insulting islam, you know why the idiot insults Christians...because he knows they won't try to kill him for his stupidity. (Unlike muslims who find offense in everything, even music or kite flying...or women's faces."

I read about this in the "Tony and Tacky" section of
the WSJ and the designer states that with there so
much anti-Islam stuff out there he felt that was
being taken care of.

When my wife read that to me I made the chicken
clucking sound. "Brave artist" is an oxymoron.

Posted by: American at December 30, 2005 5:11 PM

American, you are right about the "Brave artist" oxymoron. Let's see this guy put Mohammad's face on the backside pocket. You'll find him gasping in some street in Stockholm with a note stuck to his chest with a knife.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 30, 2005 6:30 PM

Atldax says "In more religious countries, that might raise a furious response"

If it's the ire of Christians - 4getaboutit

but

Hold on a minute . . .UNLESS these fashionably 'tight' jeans happen to come with a hidden burkha . . . and this is Sweden you're talking about . . .Atldax's design may indeed incite the indignant and readily offended muslim male to "raise a furious response".

'For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct'

Western mores are offensive. Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation.

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

Rape: Nothing to do with Islam?

Robert Spencer on rape and jihad

"It is abundantly clear that this designer wants to create public opinion against the Christian faith ... but I believe that the way to deal with this is to start a discussion about what religion means."

YES, yes . . .please do discuss exactly which religion will be offended to the point of violence.

Posted by: justamomof4 at December 30, 2005 6:35 PM

quote/ The designer plans to create logos mocking, and critical of, other religions. "I plan to make something anti-Hindu because I think its caste system is awful. I am not considering any anti-Islamic work now because there are already a lot of anti-Islamic sentiments," he said. /quote
from: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=4502

I agree with American. The guy isn't "considering any anti-Islamic work now" 'cuz he's chicken.

"...already a lot of anti-Islamic sentiments...."

WHERE?? I know of no website where you can play "Dress Up Muhammad". Somebody show me a car bumper sporting a "star & crescent" logo with "Darwin" in the middle and little feet on the crescent. Have you seen any holy objects of Islam submerged in urine and called "art"? Maybe the 70 million Hindus slain under Muslim rule could tell the jeans designer about their little encounter with Islam.

I officially Double Dog Dare this guy to come up with a "modified" Islamic logo to put on his jeans. In fact, I'll email him and dare him myself.

Posted by: Jim at December 30, 2005 6:45 PM

I also dare the South Park creators to do an
islam spoof. They got slapped down with their
"Virgin Mary" thing, but will they try the
pedophile for profit?

Incidentally, I think that Virgin Mary stuff is
in bad taste, but as long as I don't pay, like,
whatever dudes. Bad taste is good comedy
sometimes, and I can take the jokes. I'd rather
religious leaders address issues like the high
divorce rate and worry about bad taste last.

Posted by: American at December 30, 2005 8:19 PM

Hey, of course Christianity never hurts anyone.

Oh, wait, I guess that was a fuck up.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051229/CFP03/512290458

"I did it because he is evil; he was not a believer," Shelton said.
Of course, the authorities were sure to assure us all that it "had nothing to do with (Christian) religion"
I guess it had nothing to do with verses from the NT (let's just leave the OT out of the question, Christans don't seem to appreciate it much when enggaged in inter faith dialogue) like Romans 1:18-32

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Yikes, I almost thought I was reading the Quran there for a second...

Then again, Christianity wouldn't have spread so far and so wide without men like Arthur Eugene Shelton and verses like Romans 1. Listen to what John of Ephesus, a pious Christian living in the 5th century under the reign of the ultra-pious Christian emperors Tiberian and Justinian has to say about what was done against the non-believers

“In the second year of Tiberius' reign, A. D. 579, the news reached the capital that the wicked heathens at Baalbec, otherwise called Heliopolis, who were professed worshippers of Satan, were plotting whenever they could find an opportunity to destroy and wipe out the very remembrance of the Christians in that town, who were few and poor, while they all were in the constant enjoyment of wealth and dignity. They indulged moreover in scoffs at Christ, and all who believed in him, and had already ventured upon many acts of open violence. Upon the news reaching Tiberius, he entrusted the matter to an officer who had already a short time before been sent to the East by Justin, upon the occasion of a revolt and disturbance created by the Jews and Samaritans in Palestine: and who on his arrival there had effectually reduced them to order, exterminating some and crucifying others, and destroying their property, and compelling them, by the severity of his measures, to submission. On receiving the king's commands, this officer, whose name was Theophilus, proceeded at once from Palestine to Heliopolis, and having arrested numerous heathens, recompensed them as their audacity deserved, humbling them and |210 crucifying them, and slaying them with the sword. And on being put to the torture, and required to give the names of those who were guilty like themselves of heathenish error, they mentioned numerous persons in every district and city in their land, and in almost every town in the East, but especially at Antioch the Great. Of most of these he was contented with sending the names to the magistrates of the place where they resided, with orders that they should be arrested immediately, and sent to him: but Theophilus dispatched one of his own attendants to secure the person of Rufinus, whom they had mentioned as holding the office of high-priest at Antioch. On the officer's arrival, however, he found that Rufinus was not there, but had lately gone on a visit to Anatolius, the governor and procurator of Edessa. Having demanded therefore the services of a magistrate to escort him, and of a bishop to conduct the examination; as soon as they were granted him, with an officer of the church court, he started for Edessa, in the hope of arresting Rufinus there.”

You go, Theophilus! Kill dem damn pagans! Rid the word of the wicked heathenish error! Death to the infidels, death to the anathema!

Oh, and to prove I'm no Islamophile, fuck Muhammed, fuck the Quran, and I'll be worshipping my idols of Allah's daughters now. I disadain all monotheistic madness.

Posted by: Julian at December 30, 2005 9:29 PM

The attitude of this Swede is just further proof that the growth of Islam in Europe is proportional to the abandonment of the Christian faith. Europe is now in a post-Christian era.

Think of the Swedish flag, it has a cross on it because symbols of the faith were important at the time of the foundation of the European nations, giving people strength and ideals.

Now most Europeans are like that Swedish designer, undermining the foundations of their nation.

Muslim needed troops to invade Europe from the South (in 711) across the Gibraltar straits, and again in the 15th century when, after raiding Constantinople, they came from the East.

But today Muslims need no troops. They just need to live in the faithless European nations and be witness to the weakness of the unworthy heirs of European Christian culture. Next, they will take over without a fight.

It's just a question of time, for since Europeans abandoned Christianity they are people without a compass. Anything goes now among Europeans, witchcraft, satanism, astrology, necromancy, Islam, occultism, and so on. And these invasive doctrines will be defended.
Anything is in the ascendancy in Europe except the Christian doctrine.

Posted by: rocky at December 30, 2005 10:31 PM

Julius, we focus on the here and now and while ancient history is a fascinating subject, the current jihad is a bit more pressing. Maybe you didn't hear about the Reformation; it changed Christianity's attitude. It occurred centuries ago.

Islam has not and will not experience a Reformation because it is immutable by design, with a special safety feature built right in by its diabolical creator, Muhammad the beast. Please spare us the irrelevant and inaccurate equivalency arguments. The concept of jihad is unique to Islam. It is the only religion specifically designed to wage endless war until it subjugates the entire world. That is its manifest destiny.

When you hear about Christians beheading the enemies of Jesus, let us know. When you see apostates executed by priests, let us know. When you see Christian adulterers stoned to death by crazed mobs, let us know. We are all familiar with the Bible and Christianity's history, neither of which is relevant to Islam's immutable doctrine and today's events. The key word is TODAY.

Posted by: Susanp at December 30, 2005 11:08 PM

American-- you said South Park got "slapped down" for the "Mary" episode? How so? Just curious because it was the first episode in 8 years that was really too much for me.

But, getting back to the theme of my previous post, I didn't riot, and I didn't issue a fatwa calling for their heads; I just aired my objections on their message board, and haven't watched since then.

That's how you let someone have it in a civil society: Stop doing business with them. Where the anti-Christian "fashion statement" (feh!) fails to sell, that's the only way the creators will get the hint: Public outrage will embolden them. Going broke won't.

Posted by: Shinoliite at December 30, 2005 11:39 PM

"When you hear about Christians beheading the enemies of Jesus, let us know. When you see apostates executed by priests, let us know. When you see Christian adulterers stoned to death by crazed mobs, let us know. We are all familiar with the Bible and Christianity's history, neither of which is relevant to Islam's immutable doctrine and today's events. The key word is TODAY."

Dud, did you click on the link?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051229/CFP03/512290458

"I did it (blew his head off with a shotgun) because he is evil; he was not a believer," Shelton said.
Of course, the authorities were sure to assure us all that it "had nothing to do with (Christian) religion"

You're going to scream "that guy's a nut, not a TRUE Christian!" Yet with passages like Romans 1 being preached to you at church every week, you've got to admit that eventually some nut is going to take the Bible seriously and go out and do what it says. You can't say (as Paul does in Romans) that unbelievers, gays, lesbians, and idolaters "deserve death" and then act all surprised when a true believer goes out and kills a non-believer.

What also gets to me is the hyprocrisy of so many Christians in criticising Islam for its violent history when theirs is so violent as well. Not that I discourage criticising the history of the violent and dusgusting religion of Islam, just that it's hypocritical of Christians to do so.

In the end, only a truly secularised West, free of all forms of disgusting superstition, will be able to stand up to the Jihad. You can't beat a Jihad with a Crusade.

As for Christian terrorism, you might be interested in the NLFT, a violent seperatist group currently working to establish a Christian fundamentalist state in the Indian province of Tripruru. One of their most prominent tactics have been carrying out conversions and baptisms at gunpoint.

http://www.christianaggression.org/features_nlft.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/717775.stm
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/tripura/terrorist_outfits/Nlft.htm

Praise the Lord, Hallelujah!

Posted by: Julian at December 31, 2005 12:11 AM

Happy New Year, all!

Jesus would just turn the other cheek at this show of demin 'daring'.

(Mohammad -and his flunkies- would simply cut off the 'brave' artist's hands.)

Atldax, the putative 'designer', knows that it is fine to kick the tame 'christian' dog ...who will only whimper and forgive you anyway ...but don't pull the stumpy tail of the 'islamic' pit bull.

Theo Van Gogh's face on a pair of jeans would be a little more to the point (upside down cross or not) -especially in Europe, but their Massive State of Denial is the true and secret name of the E.U.'s limpocracy.

(Their post-modern self-loathing and anarcho-nihilistic whining boils down to: "Let the 'Asians' and 'Africans' [code for radical Muslims] destroy as much of our countries as they can, because we invited them in and then didn't treat them like the superior princes they claim to be. We deserve to be punished for our 'racism', colonialism and arrogance. Our culture is built on old sins, and why shouldn't we let the Muslim scourge us? They claim to be purer than we are. Who is to say they aren't? I don't know enough of History to decide, so I will bow to their clearer will and allow them to destroy my civilization through their greater show of certainty about their own.")

What'll these cutting edge Euro-artists do next?

Mock the Manicheans?

Blast the Bogomils?

Kick a Cathar?

While the world IS burning, these avante garde sartorial schmucks spit on the cold ashes of ancient battles ...rather than defend what was won.

(Little things like the Rights of Man- ...and Woman. Freedom of thought and freedom of expression. Religious freedom. Sexual freedom. The freedom to say: "I think you're full of supernatural shit" -to mullah, monk or snake handler alike.)

The collective cowardice of the Continent is chilling.

Posted by: profitsbeard at December 31, 2005 12:28 AM

Julian,
Ever hear the expression "the exception that
proves the rule"? You don't have quite the weight
of evidence on your side, without going back several hundred years, of anything approximating
the violent behavior of Islam in Christianity.

Should I tally up the murders committed this
century by various avowedly ungodly regimes like
the Nazis or various form of Communist in the
atheistic murder bin?

Also, a jihad was beaten by crusade(s). Do
you think it was a modern secular state that
fought back the Turks? If anything, the burden
of proof would seem to be with those espousing
atheism as a central tenet of the counter-jihad.
Good luck with that! I can imagine it as a
possibility, but many of the atheists I know
who'd agree with you are so PC that they're
likely to beg to be dhimmis, like this Swede.

Posted by: American at December 31, 2005 12:47 AM

from the article: "It's just supposed to be a bit of fun, some kind of anti-culture," he said."

God forbid some young Swedish woman celebrating the "fun" of tearing down her own culture isn't gang-raped by you-know-who while wearing this particular pair of jeans. There's only so much irony a person can stand.

Posted by: Caroline at December 31, 2005 1:20 AM

Hey, guess what's on Special Report With Brit Hume's daily "Grapevine?" Devil Denim. As usual, where'd we see it first?

Interesting bit up front about profiling and the TSA, too:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180261,00.html

Posted by: Shinoliite at December 31, 2005 1:48 AM

I've given up on people like julian a long time ago. I don't have time for people with moral relevance disorder. I've actually come up with a name for this type of "argument" it's called the:
"but, but, but the Christians did..."
Next thing you know their bringing up the Inquisition, even though most serious scholars know that execution was not some rampant, out of control practice by the church.

I was on another site this week and some clown said that between 92 & 98 their were 7 abortion doctors killed.(didn't say if the killers were christian, but it was implied because of the thread topic) I was like wow that's an hours work for most jihadists, what's your point? They probably thought Tim McVeigh and Hitler were Christians also. Sometimes it's like a conversation with my 11yr old, although I'm trying to keep my kid from using the "but, but, but.." argument.

Some people are destined to go through life not "getting it".

People like julian miss the overall good point that has been made about if this was a upside down cresent or even if it looked like it said allah, like the burger king ice cream cup incident, the creator of the work would be completely harrassed & quite possibly killed.
Well guess what? I have a friend who does custom work, I think I've got some new designs in mind & you know what? I don't care, let them bitch, remember it's just "more of a joke". And guess what I'm gonna call it?
CHEAP PRAYER FRIDAY!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
How ya like me now??

Funny julian quotes from Romans, that's where the death penalty is justified.

Oh yeah anyone seen the way the jihad is going out with a bang this year in Indonesia?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4570912.stm

Completly glossed over & filled w/ moral equivalency. What else can we expect from the bee?

Posted by: flyingcarpetdust at December 31, 2005 2:17 AM

I like the idea. Now, the man needs to add a few more designs, like perhaps the cool Mohammed picci with the bomb in his turban, from the Danish artist. That on a butt pocket would look rather fetching I'd think!

How about Muhammad with a tuxedo on, holding hands with a baby in diapers bride? that will go over well..

There seems to be an anti Christian campaign on again. The "There was a female pope" doccumentry
on yesterday. Total slam against the vatican, based on nothing more than old folklore.
Disgusting.
I'll bet money that the money for this comes from Islamic pockets.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at December 31, 2005 6:01 AM

Posted by: Julian

B.S.

I'll bet you've never read the bible at all.
There is no commands from God to kill anyone.

The NT tells you to love, not kill. Your post shows just how ignorant you really are.

The Koran on the otherhand, tells it's faithfull that it's their duty to kill, it's but a small matter.

One day, your ignorance will be your undoing. The world is quickly changing, just as prophacy proclaimed. you can believe it or not. The problem is, when it comes to the time where you realize how wrong you are, the door will already be closed, so prophacy says.
Tuff luck. Prophacy has never been wrong yet, you should consider that.
If anything, rather than read a few anti christian sites which take literal quotes out of their intended meaning, and using them to justify your lazyness and immoral behavior, You should really read the bible, the gospels, and words of the fathers and really understand what Christianity is all about, what it's true history was, rather than run your mouth off and
make yourself look foolish by repeating Christian trashing B.S.
You don't even have to believe, but at least you will learn a little history, which will make you a little smarter than you are now.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at December 31, 2005 6:22 AM

They probably thought Tim McVeigh and Hitler were Christians also

I wish I had $1 for every time I heard that.
It must be something they teach at Evergreen marxist school.

Atheists like Hitler, lenin, Stalin etc. only killed around 2-300 million people in the 20th century- So what?

What about those Christians?
You can only take pity on the Julians of the world, they are victims of- themselves.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at December 31, 2005 6:38 AM

To lower the tone from the serious debate ongoing. From a "where to shop in Stockholm" type site.
"one of the stores that sell both Acne Action and Nudie jeans in addition to Cheap Monday (a super skinny line of jeans for guys and girls popular for creating that punk-inspired half-crack look),"
1 (OT) Even when I was young and slim I would not have been seen dead in jeans named after the zits which were the bane of my life.
2 Somehow I didn't expect "Cheap Mondays" to come in a size 18.
Sorry to interupt Gentlemen, now back to the serious commentary.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 31, 2005 8:43 AM

Robert --

The Italian pun modifies a New Testament line. The offense taken was not due to the mere employment of Jesus's words put to rumpsteak-serenade commercial use, but because of another meaning provided by the paronomasia.

Akin to taking Hamlet's line in naughty vein, and with the addition of a mad dash, having him assure Polonius that he could tell a "hawk" from a "hand-saw."

Posted by: Hugh at December 31, 2005 10:50 AM

Hitler an atheist. That's really funny. I'd like to here an explanation for why he said this, from Mein Kampf:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

People talk about Nazi mysticism, but only Himmler really got into it. The rest of the Nazis thought it was a big joke. Hitler sometimes got mad at the church when it didn't do exactly as he said, and he held some un-orthodox views, but that doesn't make him an atheist. Hitler hated atheism, that's why every SS trooper went into battle with "Gott Mit Uns" on their belt buckle. Although Hitler himself probably was not an orthodox Christian, he did draw strength from the great variety of anti-smeetic verses in the NT:

John 8:44 (Jesus speaking): Ye (Jews) are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matt. 27:25 Then answered all the people (the Jews), and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Acts 10: 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Hitler saw Christianity as a repudation of Judaism, and used the church (which galdly took his money) to promote his fascism and anti-semetism, both of which are more than compatible with Christian doctrine.
Hitler certainly had some problems with the church, but he had more problems with atheism, which he associated with atheism. whatever Hitler believed he was never an atheist.

Timothy McViegh's religious affiliation may be obscure, but his partner's Terry Nichols is clear as day:born again Christianity

Stalin's religious views are also complicated. He started his carrer of in seminary, his first aspiration was to be a priest. When Churchil told him of the plan to attack Africa instead of opening up a second front in Europe, Stalin is said to have gotten on his knees and praised God. Stalin mobilized the church, which the Commies never actually destroyed, during the war in support of Mother Russia. Both of these men were communists, and ideology I am completely against, anyway.

By the way, what did you guys think of the NLFT?

Posted by: Julian at December 31, 2005 2:24 PM

Julian,

A Christian is not merely a person who has inherited Christianity from his parents like a family keepsake or a bunch of cultural rites. Also, the mere believe in Christ as the savior, the son of God, does not constitute a Christian either. The greatest commandment in Christianity is love which is manifested in sacrifice, charity, and forgiveness. Christianity is the hardest path to follow and very few people are worthy to be called Christians. The people that you sited are not Christians even in the narrowest sense of the word. Christianity at its core is a complete rejection of power, wealth, and all the trappings and adornments of life; an extremely difficult task, even for those who devote their life to it. A Christian is someone who follows in the footsteps of that poor suffering carpenter from Galilee.

Yours is an extremely cheap attack, which is widespread among those who cannot attack the moral tenets of Christianity at its face, resorting to searching the history books for the most unchristlike characters, fraudulently labeling them as Christians. However, Christian dogma would label them as antichrists, the disciples of Satan, the deceiver, the enemy of all that is good and holy.

Posted by: have_mercy at December 31, 2005 4:03 PM

John 8:44 (Jesus speaking): Ye (evil men, who happened to be Jews) are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

In your quote of the Gospel, Jesus chastised evil men who commit or condone murder and spread falsehood; he considers them to be the children of Satan. The verse is sufficient repudiation of your false claims that the historic murderers that you mentioned were Christians.

Matt. 27:25 Then answered all the people (a minority of the Jews helping fulfill the prophecies of redemption), and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

You failed to mention the Jews who cried for Jesus while he is led to his crucifixion. Also, you neglect the Fact that Jesus was a Jew; his followers were Jews, and the entire Christian faith owes its spread to the Jews who propagated to the world, paying the highest price at the hand of fanatical blood-thirsty killers from all nations. The fact is, the true followers of Jesus are universally persecuted through out the world in the most extreme fashion in countries that were not founded on Christian principles, and through anti-Christian false propaganda, mockery, and discrimination in the post-Christian west.

Acts 10: 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Jesus’ crucifixion was actively perused by a group of the corrupt Jewish elites. The men speaking these words above were themselves devout Jews and very pro-Jewish. The fact that shallow evil people mistook such passages as a license to persecute Jews and other shallow anti-Christian zealots mistook them as proof of the Christian anti-Semitism is sad, but as in your quote of Jesus: When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The fact is Millions of the true followers of Christ suffer and die at the hands of Muslims, Communists, Marxists, and yes even Buddhists makes Christianity the single most persecuted faith of the world great religions. Muslims who apostate and embrace Christianity are even persecuted in the West.

Whatever parallel universe of moral equivalence that you choose inhibit will never set Christianity on bar with Islam’s message of a unholy war to subjugate all mankind through violence and the greatest cruelty imaginable, or equate Jesus with theimmoral, bloodthirsty, and merciless Mohammed.

Posted by: have_mercy at December 31, 2005 4:53 PM

Europe sow the wind, and shall reap the whirlwind.

Posted by: have_mercy at December 31, 2005 5:05 PM

Sigh. You guys continue to ramble on and on, saying the same thing over and over again, never citing your sources. No one has told me why a truly Christian government should not be killing gays, lesbians, idolaters, and unbelievers according to Paul in Romans 1, why exactly Tiberius and Theophilus were "antichrists" (despite the fact that they were believers, and 1 John 2:22 only single out the unbelievers (he that denies the Father and the Son) as "liars" and "antichrists"), and have so far not scripturally answered me as to why Arthur Eugene Shelton is not a "True Christian", whatever that is. In addition, I seem to sense a lurking unwillingess to discuss the Christian terrorist organization I pointed out, the NLFT. As long as those who oppose Jihad in the West continue to be raving Christian partisans who are hostile to logical debate (and continue to suffer from this irreducible "martyrdom complex") than Muslims and Islamophiles will continue to point out all of us as mere "fanatics" and "Islamophibes." Islam will continue to be viewed as the religion of peace, right as it slits our collective throats, unless we can all acknowledge our pagan heritage of tolerance and understanding and be willing to defend uit.

Posted by: Julian at December 31, 2005 8:46 PM

meant "Islamophobes" for "Islamophibes"

Posted by: Julian at December 31, 2005 8:47 PM

Oh and p.s. I'm going to be buying about 100 of these jeans when they come to the U.S.

Posted by: Julian at December 31, 2005 8:48 PM

"Oh and p.s. I'm going to be buying about 100 of these jeans when they come to the U.S."

Well duh

You might well need that many changes of pants soon.

Why is it that every time some atheist believes all the bullshit they have been reading they demand Cheistians spend several hours educating them?
Do your own research...if you are interested in the truth you'll find it.
Somehow though, I gather you are really not interested in the truth.

Posted by: Mike_W at December 31, 2005 10:32 PM

Leftists need a brain scan, there just has to be something missing.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 31, 2005 11:58 PM

Julian says: "Yikes, I almost thought I was reading the Quran there for a second...

As I said, you didn't understand a single word of what you posted, did you.

What do you thank that means?
What do you think God should do to those who give themselves over to sinful ways?

What he does is give you the freedom to do so. You reward however is death, This means Your soul doesn't trancend into heaven.

Islam however, tells it's followers to kill anyone they see "sinning", living outside the laws of the Islamic god Allah (al- ilah, the god) on earth. Muslims become his executioners.

The Lord jesus however, tells you not to judge, but to forgive. God alone is the judge, and forgiveness from him can be achieved if you simply believe in him, repent your sins, and follow the path he has set out for you. It is the only way for your spirit to transend into heaven. Otherwise it dies. it desends into the eternal darkness, which is death, nothingness, out of the light.
You have to think of things from a spiritual point of view, not a human one if you are ever to understand what the bible is trying to tell you regarding these things.

Islam's Koran is from Muhammad's mortal perspective, and it shows throughout that it is inspired by his own lusts and thought. Even muhammads heaven is nothing more than an earthly brothel. There are classier hotel resorts here on earth than what Muhammad dreamed up. The best rooms in Muhammad's resort are given to the best killers.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at January 1, 2006 6:03 AM

And as far as you thinking Hitler was a Christian, grow up. he clearly stated he was NOT.

Do you honestly think you are hurting a Christian with your attacks against the Lord and his gospel? You aren't. It's sad to see someone like you fall so far from his grace however.

The glory of Christ the Lord, your savior, is that he will forgive you if you believe in him, repent.

Not Allah. your path is predetermined. If your black, you are going straight to hell no matter what. And at best, no matter what you do if you are an arab Muslim, you have a 50/50 chance.

Bukhari:V4B54N430 “Allah’s Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, ‘Regarding the matter of the creation of a human being: humans are put together in the womb of the mother in forty days. Then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period. He becomes a piece of flesh for forty days. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things: the new creature’s deeds, livelihood, date of death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched. He will do whatever is written for him.’”

Posted by: Mullahmasher at January 1, 2006 6:15 AM

I'm going to be buying about 100 of these jeans when they come to the U.S.

You know that many people, all of them very thin?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at January 1, 2006 8:15 AM

Dear Have_mercy :

"A Christian is not merely a person who has inherited Christianity from his parents like a family keepsake or a bunch of cultural rites. Also, the mere believe in Christ as the savior, the son of God, does not constitute a Christian either. The greatest commandment in Christianity is love which is manifested in sacrifice, charity, and forgiveness. Christianity is the hardest path to follow and very few people are worthy to be called Christians. The people that you sited are not Christians even in the narrowest sense of the word. Christianity at its core is a complete rejection of power, wealth, and all the trappings and adornments of life; an extremely difficult task, even for those who devote their life to it. A Christian is someone who follows in the footsteps of that poor suffering carpenter from Galilee."

Islam aside, we cannot deny the atrocities & havoc, the power hungry Christian missionaries have done and still do in Asian/African countries...in the name of religion, in the name of Christianity's & Jesus's greatness.

Why do you Westerners not speak out against them too ?

Please read this article by Francois Gautier

"
--Conversions threaten a way of life--

Francois Gautier writes to Dr John Dayal, member, National Integration Council(India), in response to the letter he wrote Prime Minister Manmohan Singh:

Dear John Dayal,

I am a Westerner and a born Christian. I was mainly brought up in Catholic schools, my uncle Father Guy Gautier a gem of a man, was the parish head of the beautiful Saint Jean de Montmartre church in Paris. My father Jacques Gautier, a famous artist in France, and a truly good person if there ever was one, was a fervent Catholic all his life, went to church nearly every day and lived by his Christian values.

There are certain concepts in Christianity I am proud of: Charity for others, the equality of social systems in many Western countries, Christ's message of love and compassion.
Yet, when I read your letter to Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh, apropos the inaugural meeting of the National Integration Council, I was a little uneasy.

First, you seem to assume that you are speaking for the entire Christian community in India. But I know many Christians in this country, and they never voice the grievances you so loudly proclaim. In fact, I have found that most Christians in India are not only happy to live in this country of traditional tolerance, but that they are also different from many Christians in the world: More multicultural and ecumenist in spirit, maybe.

Then, you speak of the marginalised Dalits. I agree that there are still unforgivable atrocities committed against Dalits, although very often they are done by backward castes themselves. I remember during the tsunami in Pondichery, how the Vanniars, an OBC caste, stopped the Dalits from a coastal hamlet from crossing the Vanniars' part of the village to bury their dead, as the Dalits' cremation ground had been submerged.

At the same time, my 30 years in India have taught me that nowhere in the world has there been so much effort to rectify a wrong -- from 1947 onwards. This resulted in a Dalit, the late K R Narayanan, born in a poor village of Kerala, to be elected President of India, one of the highest posts in this nation.

Has a black man ever been President of the United States?

Reservations for Dalits have made it possible for them to access education and jobs regardless of their merits -- and this is a unique feature of India today.

Francois Gautier who are the real Dalits of India?

You continue by saying that 'the agenda draftsmen of papers for NIC seem to believe that forcible and fraudulent conversions (to Christianity) are the main cause of civil unrest in tribal and other rural areas'. And you retort that 'this is a malicious myth propagated by obscurantist and fundamentalist -- and often violent -- political groups'. Meaning Hindu groups, of course.
I have to disagree with you on two points.

One, I have seen with my own eyes how conversions in India are not only highly unethical -- that is, using unethical means of conversion -- but also that they threaten a whole way of life, erasing centuries of tradition, customs, wisdom, teaching people to despise their own religion and look Westwards to a culture which is alien to them, with disastrous results.

Look at what happened to countries like Hawaii, or to the extraordinary Aztec culture in South America, after Portuguese and Spanish missionaries took over.

Look how the biggest drug problems in India are found in the Northeast, or how Third World countries which have been totally Christianised have lost all moorings and bearing and are drifting away without nationalism and self-pride.

Second, I think people like you show very little gratitude to that Hindu ethos which has seeped into Indian Christian consciousness. It is because of that Hindu ethos, which accepts that god may manifest himself at different times in different names, that Christians were welcomed in India in the first century. Indeed, the Syrian Christians of Kerala constituted the first Christian community in the world.

It is because of this inbred tolerance in Hinduism that Christianity and many other persecuted minorities in the world flourished and practiced their religion in peace in India throughout the centuries.

But how do Christians thank the Hindus? When the Jesuits arrived in India with Vasco de Gama, they committed terrible persecutions, particularly in Goa, crucifying Brahmins, marrying local girls forcibly to Portuguese soldiers, razing temples to build churches and splitting the Kerala Christian community in two.

'Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel'

And today, people like you continue ranting against Hindus and promoting unethical conversions, using the massive power of the dollars donated by ignorant Westerners, who do not know that their money is used to lure innocent tribals and Dalits, who still possess that all encompassing acceptance of all gods, towards another religion.

Furthermore, you use false statistics, saying for instance that nuns have been raped. You no doubt allude to the Jhabua rape case, when courts have shown that these nuns were not raped by Hindus, but by Christian tribals.

I know, I went there and interviewed these innocent souls.

And who has been hijacking of the educational system in India? Not the Hindus, as you accuse, but the Christians, who control much of the higher education in India and by subtle and not so subtle means, poison the minds of the students, teaching them to look down on their own culture and look up to whatever is Western -- even if it has already failed in the West.

In how many schools and hospitals in India today, the Bible is read at the beginning of each day, each session? Would you approve of the Bhagavad Gita, the Bible of 850 million Hindus being read in Christian schools in the West to Christian students and nurses?

Finally, when you say: 'God bless you, you Government, and God bless India', which god are you talking about? Is it Jesus Christ? But the message of Christ was one of love, of respecting others' cultures and creed -- not of utilising unethical means for converting people.

It is false to say that Jesus is the only 'true' god. As Hindus rightly believe, the Divine has manifested himself throughout the ages under different names and identities, whether it is Christ, Buddha, Krishna or Mohammad.

Let this be the motto of the National Integration Council of India."

Regards,
LS

Posted by: lazysusan at January 1, 2006 5:23 PM

It is false to say that Jesus is the only 'true' god. As Hindus rightly believe, the Divine has manifested himself throughout the ages under different names and identities, whether it is Christ, Buddha, Krishna or Mohammad.
You believe that, a Christian by the very definition can't accept that.
You can believe that mohammad is equal to Jesus if you want to, but that is ridiculous to any Christian.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 1, 2006 5:34 PM

The utter depravity and stupidity of militant athiests anti intellectuals like Julian is so predictable and sad!!

I have dealt with moral equivicators all over the internet and elsewhere for years and Facts mean nothing to them and they despise truth!!

Perhaps these useful idiots will only get it when the Islamic scimitar is held against their throat but even then they will argue that their is no difference between the murderous cult of Islam and Christianity!!

Lazy Susan's is only just a step above Julian!!

My God....how are we going to win this battle against Liberal evil and Islamic evil when such people refuse to open their narrow minds and learn??

And how many of them are their out there?? The Julians and Lazy Susan's are not small in numbers.........stupidity and ignorance is massive in this day in age of appalling education systems and rampant moral relativism worshipped by all.......

Thank God for the Internet.......

Posted by: Albertanator at January 1, 2006 6:03 PM

"You believe that, a Christian by the very definition can't accept that.
You can believe that mohammad is equal to Jesus if you want to, but that is ridiculous to any Christian"

Its not a question of equality. It is the right of existance of different faiths. But if this is the way Christians (my Jesus is the greatest and I have the right to convert others) think, Muslims are only a step further...Christian missionaries butcher native values & culture while Muslims butcher the natives themselves. Good job keep it up.

Posted by: lazysusan at January 1, 2006 6:35 PM

And just to clarify, I am against Islamic terrorism ofcourse. Totally agree with Ali Sina of FFI, that is not a faith but a evil cult.

Posted by: lazysusan at January 1, 2006 6:39 PM

/correction

Totally agree with Ali Sina of FFI, that ISLAM is not a faith but a evil cult.

Posted by: lazysusan at January 1, 2006 6:39 PM

Sighhhhhhhh...Lazy Susan your knowledge of Christ and Christianity is brutal too say the least...

Whilst it is true that Christianity is a mutually exclusive path and proclaims that all outside of Christ are lost, the MAJOR difference vis a vis Islam or other systems of belief is that Christianity respects free will......NO ONE can force you too become a Christian.....that absolutely militates against the Bible.....however , yes we are called to share the message with whomever wants to listen!!
It would take the stupidest of moral equivicators to think that is somehow the same as Islamic teachings where force is allowed...

Secondly LazySusan, I have no problem with some cultures and values being wiped out......are you saying that you respect the culture of Slavery as in Islam or women beating as in Islam??

I fully support the destruction of those cultures and values by all means necessary......just as I supported the American Civil War to destroy Southern Slavery....

I also support the end of the Caste system in India and all of its brutalities.....

You wouldn't be much a human being that didn't care about his fellow man whilst he lingers on in brutal countries under brutal ideologies!!

Posted by: Albertanator at January 1, 2006 9:33 PM

Dear Albertanator,

"NO ONE can force you too become a Christian.....that absolutely militates against the Bible.....however , yes we are called to share the message with whomever wants to listen!!"

Yes that is true but it is true only in Western countries. Not in countries where there was Colonial Rule...there FORCE/DECEPTION/UNETHICAL pratices were/are used. This was understanable (not the right word but dont know what else to use!)during Colonial times, but now all countries are free but still these practices are carried out (yes by unethical means) and with the dollars Westerners donate to Missions. And no can do anything against it because of the Leftist Indians. Just like your hands get tied against Islamic terrorism because of Leftists in your country.

They also probably think like you that Missionaries are just sharing the message, but they do much more than that...and have been doing.
I ask you to question your heart, that do you think these unethical conversions are ok ? Do you support them ? Do you think a tolerant religion like Hinduism, which allowed prosecuted minorities (Zorastrians, Jews) & people of all religions, since ancient times, to live & flourish in India, should be subjected to this ? Or do you take notice only when something like Islam comes along to harm Christians & Westerners ? Then some Westerners appease Islam (Leftist types) or some like the ones on this website ask for immediate & strict action (the supposed Right). But since Hindus or Buddhists dont around bombing Western countries so is their religion fair game ? My entire argument is based on the fact of unethical conversions in India, probably unknown to and unknowingly supported by the average Westerner.

"I also support the end of the Caste system in India and all of its brutalities....."

India has already ended caste system injustices, qouting Francois Gautier, "At the same time, my 30 years in India have taught me that nowhere in the world has there been so much effort to rectify a wrong -- from 1947 (India's independence from British) onwards. This resulted in a Dalit (supposed low caste), the late K R Narayanan, born in a poor village of Kerala, to be elected President of India, one of the highest posts in this nation. Has a black man ever been President of the United States? "

I am certainly not equating Islam with any religion. I agree with FFI. The point I raised was with respect to a comment by have_mercy, I only intended to make you as a Westerner Christian (I assume you are one) question yourself about Christianity and whether you knew what was going on in India in the name of your religion. Please read the article by Francois Gautier fully.

Posted by: lazysusan at January 1, 2006 10:55 PM

How about the cresent, one on each cheek pocket. One could be reversed from the other, and called the "Cresant moon jeans".

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at January 1, 2006 11:33 PM

Lazy Susan,

Please take your BS with Christianity somewhere else. This site, in case you haven't noticed, is called 'Jihad Watch'. Its not 'Christian Watch', 'Hindu-watch' or 'Buddhist or Jew-watch," Its about Islam against the rest of the world. Let me know when you hear of a Christian suicide bomber or a Buddhist flying a Jumbo Jet into a high-rise building, will you?

Until then, go back to sleep or find yourself a Christian rant site, the net is big enough and you'll find your niche. This is not a Christian site and this is the wrong address for this kind of crap.

Good bye!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 2, 2006 4:51 AM

well spoken sheikh!

Posted by: rocky at January 2, 2006 9:40 PM

LazySusan is nothing but a "patriotic" Hindutvawadi - a product of MS (MS=More S.) Golmalkar, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh's spin doctor! These "super patriotic" Hindutvawadis believe that India is only for the Hindus (not for minorities like the 2% Christian population). Funnily enough, these "super patriots" all live in the West! Christians in India are being raped, murdered and killed by the militant Hindus while this Hindutva fifth column in the West, primarily belonging the the upper castes, hones the art of dissemnbling, even denying that casteism exists!

Take a look at this for starters...

Five Dalits (lower caste Hindus) lynched by upper caste Hindus for skinning a dead cow!
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20021122003703800.htm&date=fl1923/&prd=fline&

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1/index.html (Dalits - lower caste)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1797336.stm (Graham Staines, missionary, and two sons 9 and 11 burnt alive in India).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/461380.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/261391.stm

http://www.thehindu.com/2002/11/15/stories/2002111505561100.htm

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2123/stories/20041119001304900.htm (brother and sister??)

Posted by: obs1 at January 3, 2006 12:58 PM