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Anti-dhimmitude in Germany. The uproar, as you can see from the end of the article, has already begun. But there is nothing wrong with this idea. Why must non-Muslim Westerners continue to assume that Muslim immigrants and Muslim populations in the West are completely loyal and accept Western values, when evidence continues to mount to the contrary in so many countries? From the Telegraph, with thanks to Don:
Muslims intent on becoming German citizens will have to undergo a rigorous cultural test to gauge their views on subjects ranging from bigamy to homosexuality.Believed to be the first test of its kind in Europe, the southern state of Baden-Württemberg has created the two-hour oral exam to test the loyalty of Muslims towards Germany.
It is to be taken on top of the standard test for foreigners wishing to become German citizens, which includes language proficiency skills and general knowledge.It also requires applicants to prove that they can provide for themselves and their families.
But there is one drawback: you get eight free years in Germany before you have to take the test.
Those applying must also have resided in Germany for the previous eight years and have no criminal record....The 30 questions, which have been set by a special commission, range from sexual equality to school sports and are meant to trigger a more detailed discussion between the applicants and officials.
Until now, all applicants have simply had to tick a Yes or No box to answer whether they felt loyalty to Germany.
But now they will be quizzed on their attitudes to homosexuality and western clothing for young women, and whether husbands should be allowed to beat their wives.
Other questions covering topics such as bigamy and whether parents should allow their children to participate in school sports have been called "trick questions", meant to catch people off guard.
The state interior ministry said the test would be used to filter out Muslims who were unsuited for life in Germany. Those who answered "correctly" but later acted against expected behaviour, such as wife-beating, could have their citizenship removed.
Critics say that the test is biased and discriminatory and that if Muslims are obliged to take it, so should all applicants for citizenship.
Brigitte Lösch, a leading member of the Green party in the Baden-Wurttemberg parliament, called for the oral exam to be dropped, arguing that it inferred from the outset that all Muslims were "violent per se" and unable to abide by German law.
"This list of questions is only to be used for applicants from Islamic countries. It is an unbelievable form of discrimination," she said. "If Germans were asked some of the questions, they would find it difficult to answer them."
The European Assembly of Turkish Academics rejected the questionnaire as "strongly discriminatory and racist" against Germany's three million-strong Muslim population, most of whom are Turkish.
Kerim Arpad, an assembly spokesman, said: "The test is shaped by stereotypes and damages integration."
But Dieter Biller, of the foreign ministry in Stuttgart, the state capital, said the test would help bureaucrats to form opinions as to whether citizenship applicants were suitable or not.
"It covers everything from sexual equality, violence, school sports and religious freedom," he said. "How the applicants stand on the question of the attacks of September 11 will also be a key question."
Posted by Robert at December 31, 2005 4:08 AM
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The only thing that this is really testing is how well Muslims know what answers are expected of them, that is not the same thing as what they really inwardly think.
Posted by: Elephant![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 31, 2005 5:18 AM
I like it- I like it alot.
I don't think it matters what they inwardly think. They are going to express what they think long before they take this test, and just look for somewhere else to live. I think it's designed to keep muslims from comming in.
Some Hitler lovers will be deeply saddened, unable to live in the land of the greatest Jew killer in history will be upsetting.
Posted by: Mullahmasher at December 31, 2005 5:52 AM
"what they really inwardly think"
Bigamy: OK
Homosexuality: death by beheading
Western women's clothing: means they are fair game
Wife-beating: OK
School sports: not OK
Sept 11: tiny MoE, Islam = Peace
Did I pass?
Posted by: islamophobic pride at December 31, 2005 5:54 AM
Most Muslims taking this test will probably give the desired answers that the German government is expecting. A more effective way to gauge a Muslim's committment to German culture is to make a series of classes mandatory for those seeking German citizenship. In these classes, it would be mandatory for men and women to sit next to each other, man/woman/man/woman, regardless of family relationship or religion. These classes should go on for a period of months; those dropping out should be considered for deportation. In the classes, subjects should range from women's rights in German society, concepts of German education, including total and mandatory integration of the sexes in classes and sports, freedom of the press and speech, including the right to critize Islam, explanation of German laws, respect for German traditions and holidays, testing of a certain level of proficiency in reading and writing German language, with no exceptions made for Muslim stay-at-home wives. Muslims are easily enflamed. I am certain that many would be enflamed by these classes and would not attend and would therefore be shown the door permanently out of Germany.
Posted by: maryrose at December 31, 2005 6:16 AM
From the Ayaan Hirsi Website:
The Dutch senate has approved a law requiring immigrants to take a special integration test before they can enter the country.
Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk hopes to begin with the test early next year. The migrants, mostly from Turkey and Morocco, will be tested on their knowledge of Dutch and Dutch society.
The immigrants will have to pay 350 euros for the examination. Residents of the European Union, the United States and a number of other Western countries are exempt from the test.
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at December 31, 2005 8:35 AM
l like the idea of mixed classes, women and men mixed in same classroom..but they will prol cry out
their relgion, aka cult does not allow the mixing of people.. l would ask a few more questions, and have them put their hand on a Jewish Bible for their statemnts!
at December 31, 2005 9:14 AM
Is the exam in German?
Btw, I see nothing wrong in discussing with people whether they support the base laws of the German state (Grundgesetz). In fact, if you have an organisation in German that can be shown to not support those laws, then by law, such an organsation can be closed down.
It is how we take care of assorted Nazi and Communist parties, Scientologists and other rabble who do not respect our democracy. Sure, it is somewhat undemocratic, but, after the events of 1933, a somewhat neccessary fix.
Imli
Posted by: Imli at December 31, 2005 9:19 AM
In principle this loyalty test is a good idea. It sends out a signal about the limits of tolerance. Such signals need to be sent out even in superficial ways, such as banning the burqa. If it annoys Muslims, well and good.
In practice, however, Muslim immigrants will probably, over the course of their probationary period, learn the "correct" answers. There may even be a black market in "correct" answers, as there is a market in essays on the internet. The doctrine of taqiyya will make this perfectly acceptable.
It isn't difficult to work out what the correct answers are. Look at those dozy "personality tests" you get in women's magazines and job applications:
(Are you:
A A dreamer who would rather be writing poetry?
B A subversive, back-stabbing manipulator?
C A dynamic, focussed, proactive self-starter and team player?
D A skiver who will spend all day emailing friends and shopping on the internet?)
Giving the correct answers may stick in their craw so much that they go home and beat their wives afterwards.
Actions speak louder than words. I think Maryrose's idea of mixed language classes is excellent. The classes should cover topics such as girls meeting their boyfriends and going to nightclubs. Never mind nightclubs, even to the theatre. Watch the reaction, as well as the drop out rate. No true Muslim will tolerate free women, though the men may allow themselves a great deal of freedom.
at December 31, 2005 10:06 AM
The test should be given in conditions that approximate those of German life. Men and women together. Sausages and beer for sale at the stand outside the examination hall. People walking their dogs.
And the test itself should include questions such as:
1) Define "taqiyya." Explain what you think of this doctrine.
2) Please discuss, in short answers, the relevance of the following to modern life:
a) Asma bint Marwan
b) Aisha
c) the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza
d) the attack on the Khaybar Oasis
3) What should a Muslim do if he learns that another Muslim is planning to bomb
a) the Embassy of Israel
b) a church in Berlin that American diplomats attend
c) a church that only Germans attend
d) a church that only converts to Christianity from Islam attend
Explain your answers.
4) How many wives should a man be allowed in:
a) Germany
b) France
c) Turkey
d) Saudi Arabia
5) If your child decides to become a Christian, you have a right to:
a) No longer speak to him
b) Remove him or her from your household
c) Kill him or her, or allow someone else to do it
6) Germany is a nation-state that requires loyalty to it of its citizens. Define what loyalty to the nation-state means.
7) Why should mosques be built in Germany but churches not be built in
a) Syria
b) Saudi Arabia
c) Algeria
d) Yemen
8) Do you think that Germany would be a better place if the Germans all accepted Islam or at least, if Islam were "to dominate and not to be dominated"?
If your answer is yes, please explain the reasons for this belief.
9) In Muslim countries, what particular differences in the treatment of Believers and Infidels do you find acceptable?
a) None
b) Only the jizyah tax, because that guarantees protection by Muslims of Infidels
c) Only the ban on repairing old, or building new, houses of worship
d) Whatever the Shari'a demands
10) Women should
a) Be free to dress as they wish
b) Be free to divorce their husbands as they wish
c) Be free to change their religion if they wish
d) None of the above
e) All of the above
Now, there are many more questions that might be asked.
But we can't have the Muslim equivalent of Bar-Bri and Kaplan and the Princeton Review being created, and setting up special cram schools, so that Muslims may learn exactly what answers are considered the "right" answers.
No, we can't have that.
Okay, everyone ready? Please use only #2 pencils -- Eberhard Faber will naturally be best here in Germany. You may go to the bathroom only with an attendant. In the short-answer and essay parts of the exam, please write on only one side of the blue book.
You may begin.
Posted by: Hugh at December 31, 2005 10:42 AM
And the test itself should include questions such as:
1) Define "taqiyya." Explain what you think of this doctrine.
Immediately after this question, I'd insert another.
1(b) Do you think I was born yesterday? Now try again.
Posted by: Interested at December 31, 2005 10:47 AM
Sure, it's imperfect, but it is a good idea.
Some of the additional ideas were quite good too,
like mixed seating.
Albert Einstein might have failed though, since
he thought men and women should be separated in
classes. When asked why, he said that if he had
mixed classes the boys would be paying attention to the girls, not him. Someone said, "Herr
Professor, surely the boys would listen to you
rather than watch girls?" to which he replied
"I could not teach such boys!" ;-)
at December 31, 2005 12:20 PM
I recently learned that there is an Arabic term used in Sunni Islam that is the equivalent of taqiyya. Unfortunately, I did not take note of it. But it's important for us to know, because the term taqiyya can be easily -- and factually -- dismissed as "Oh, that's just what the Shiites do against the Sunnis."
If anyone knows the Arabic term used in Sunni Islam that is the equivalent of taqiyya, I'd appreciate him or her letting me know.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 31, 2005 12:28 PM
"Brigitte Lösch, a leading member of the Green party in the Baden-Wurttemberg parliament, called for the oral exam to be dropped"
And this isn't a Left/Right problem?
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 31, 2005 12:28 PM
Perhaps you are thinking of "kitman" -- mental reservation.
Posted by: Hugh at December 31, 2005 1:46 PM
Why let them in in the first place?It's so simple, don't let the muslims into Germany.It means more rapes more terror attacks more honor killings more taxpayers funds will be used for security and social services.They're a burden and a threat.
Posted by: RED at December 31, 2005 2:00 PM
No, it wasn't kitman.
Similiarly, there is a Sunni equivalent of the Shiite practice of temporary marriage, muta, which, again, the Sunni majority Muslims can say "Oh, that's just a heretical Shiite custom"; and for the most part, as long as one doesn't know the Sunni equivalent, one will have no way to refute that. And, damn my luck (or poor memory), I saw the Sunni equivalent of the Shiite muta, but failed to take note of it.
I think this involves more than just an interest in obscure Arabic terms: the vast majority of Muslims, Sunnis, can simply say that religiously sanctioned deceit and temporary marriage do not exist and they have effective ammunition when Infidels use the incorrect terms for such practices.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 31, 2005 2:34 PM
A test really does not make much of a difference, as Muslims are allowed to LIE to non-Muslims. They will all have ready answers to all the questions. The only test is to repatriate all Muslims from the West. That is the ONLY answer. They are a fifth column.
Posted by: faqi at December 31, 2005 2:58 PM
The only test to be passed by Muslims is whether or they are loyal to the Western country in which they reside as opposed to the ummah. Period.
Posted by: epg at December 31, 2005 3:19 PM
Much to the chagrin of ex-RAF sympathizers like Fisher and Otto Schily the green party in Germany is deeply infiltrated by 'Muzzie-power'.
Since Mohammedans vote in a block the greens have become whores for the vote, just like in Australia, where the Greens are aiding and abetting the enemy for all the wrong reasons. Australian MP Bob Brown who 'defends' Mohammedans against 'racism' is a homosexual and one wonders whether he is aware of what they have in store for him should they get to power,
Filth like Turkish/green MP Cem Ozdemir push for the Islamic agenda in Germany and for little else.
German Green Party MEP Daniel Cohn, who is a Jew, a fossil from the 68 generation from the Paris riots, which is romantically thought of as 'student-revolt', is now little less than a corrupt EU-official, who will do f*#k-all to rock the boat.
Schily seems to get it, but he is hamstrung by those in the green party that rely on the Mohammedan vote, which is tragic: Mohammedans should have never been given the vote under any circumstances.
Test them for all its worth, but as long as they allow imams, mullahs and muftis to spread that poison of Islam, not much will come of it. One who passes the test now may be a a 'proper believer' complete with kaftan and coffee-filter 10 months later. No, they will not integrate, they will not assimilate and we must do everything possible to ship them out.
at December 31, 2005 3:38 PM
Greens don't favor Muslims merely to garner votes; their Leftist pathology actually warms to the anti-Western anti-Globalist nebula of Islamic ideology.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 31, 2005 7:21 PM
Loyalty test, shmoyalty test.
I reckon they should all have to draw little Mohammed (roast pork with crackling and apple sauce upon him) cartoons.
I they 'pass' send them back to wherever the hell they came from with the cartoon stapled to their foreheads.
And if they 'fail', ditto, but without the cartoon...just the staples.
at December 31, 2005 7:53 PM
A test can be had because of their nature, answers given to others, etc.
I prefer a way to have the person interviewed, and asking questions as to the following of their faith. On camera the questions are asked, and with knowledge that a false statement will & can result in deportation. If they do somthing in the future that conflicts with the statements in the tapeing, they would be deported.
This requires full understanding of the koran and islam by the host, and questions asked to raise points against the ideas in islam that may clash with the host country.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at December 31, 2005 10:38 PM
Exactly WHY do these countries NEED these immigrants? Tell me. Are there not serious unemployment problems in Europe? Why is the native population not making babies at the necessary rate to maintain the population? Why???(I know why) There are over 8 million unemployed people in the USA-- why do we NEED to continue to import people at such a high rate?( I don't buy the various rationalizations)
8 years is plenty of time to figure out the right answers. An industry will spring up teaching how to "beat" the test.( another "productive" contribution to the "economy").
If these people are "enlightened"muslums, in fear of persecution in their homeland it seems to me they should be able to pass the test upon arrival, especially since there is a large part of the test that involves discussion and explanation, where points of view can be clarified.
Fine do the test-- but they better limit it to muslum immigrants, and it better not evolve into some kind of universal Political Correctness conformity instrument.
at January 1, 2006 8:31 AM
Deutschland uber alles!
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at January 1, 2006 5:16 PM
Deutschland uber Allah.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at January 1, 2006 5:53 PM
Hear hear, Dr. P, hear hear!
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at January 1, 2006 7:02 PM
Don't hold your breath -- this is the same country that convicted the first 9/11 conspirator for mass murder, and then gave him the "maximum" sentence under German law -- 15 years... I calculated that this came to less than 3 days each for the murder of nearly 3000 American innocents... And to add insult to injury -- a higher court overturned his conviction because America wouldn't allow the freaking bastard to call CIA witnesses or incarcerated Al Qaida kingpins like Khalid Muhammad to testify --
Germans are not to be trusted in this fight against Islamic extremism... We are more likely to be betrayed by the French and the Germans than aided...
Posted by: jsla at January 1, 2006 9:17 PM
Western Europe should limit or stop Immigration from Muslim countries and instead consider Latin America, Poland, Russia, Africa or India.
Better yet, how about changing the declining birth rate give native Europeans a government subsidy to have more the two children with a bonus after four.
The other day I met a nice Dutch family with two lovely children at a family gathering, I think they were shocked when they saw that I came from a family of twelve and that I had four children of my own. The husband made a comment that two was enough for them, because of over population concerns and that having less children meant that they had more money to spend on themselves.
How sad, though I love spending money on myself, there is nothing more rewarding then watching children grow and being a part of their lives.
Of course the greatest news is the arrival of a child, my nice in Poland whose recent wedding I had described in an earlier post, is expecting a child.
In a Europe devoid of children this is a welcome sight.
Posted by: El Cid at January 1, 2006 10:20 PM
Correction to my post above...
Motassadeq was sentenced to approximately 1.85 days in prison (later overturned as detailed above) for abetting the mass murder of nearly 3000 in America on 9/11...
You see, every time you look at the European record -- it's even worse than you previously thought...
Posted by: jsla at January 2, 2006 1:56 PM
(1.85 days per murdered soul that is... )
Posted by: jsla at January 2, 2006 1:57 PM
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