It is a shame that Islam brainwashes woman to be so submissive and weak that they they do not even want to go and take revenge on their oppressors.

If those woman would use the Thai method of dealing with obnoxious husbands, they would find that there is much more respect to be had.

I once, in my carefully-mispent youth had a boyfriend who used to 'slap his woman around'. He tried with me, and after he got bombarded with the contents of the scullery, he quickly thought better of it, because he really was a wimpy coward at heart, scared to get hurt. It is amazing what a well aimed tomato tin to the brow can do...

Wife-bashers are losers no matter in what culture they live.

Posted by: Imli at March 20, 2006 12:48 PM

How well islam treats people. Here's another example:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2095003,00.html

Disgusting ideology.

Posted by: Obelisk1 at March 20, 2006 1:16 PM

It's such a sick culture. And of course the men don't want it changed. It's to their advantage.

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 2:32 PM

From Genesis: "And the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. And God said: "Let there be light". God saw the light and it was good" These words demonstrate a causal relationship between gentleness, joy and creation. In Genesis, God created man and women in His OWN image! Jesus made marriage a sacrament between equals at he Marriage of Cana.

It's instructive to compare this to the Babylonian creation myth of Enuma Elsih (foundational to the Arab Mohammed's belief system):

"So they came together - Tiamat and Marduk, sage of the gods. They advanced into conflict and joined forces in battle. Marduk shot an arrow; it pierced Tiamat's stomach, pierced the bowels and tore into her womb. At that he strangled her, made her life-breath ebb away, and cast her body to the ground. Standing over it in triumph, he slit her in two like the fish of the drying yards, the one half he positioned and secured as the sky. Therein traced he the stars, star-groups and constellations. The great sun gates he opened in both sides of her ribs. He made the
moon to shine forth. He placed her head in position, heaped the mountains upon it, and made the Euphrates and Tigris to flow through her eyes."

This is (in part) from "Wrestling With Angels" a completely fascinating book by Naomi H. Rosenblatt, Family Psychotherapist and (former/present?) conductor of Bible classes held at the US Senate.

Ought we be surprised by the behavior of people whose foundational creation stories equate death and destruction of the Feminine with creation that (supposedly) leaves the Masculine alone but intact albeit busy tearing his female mate asunder in order to build his lonely and stupid world?

People are created as equals; at the same time, all religions/cultures/beliefs are Not Created Equal.

Posted by: Daisytoo at March 20, 2006 2:36 PM

How sad it would be to sit by and watch your innocent daughter be stoned or hung, and know the criminals are free to rape again and again.

I know these women are browbeaten from birth, but there should come a time when they stand and say ENOUGH! We are not going to waste any more of our girls to an ideology that condones killing them for any male whim.

And then begin to raise their sons to take responsiblity for their actions.

I know I'm eguating them with all women, but where is the motherly instinct? Where is the mother's love?

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 2:51 PM

Ooops! That should be equating!

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 2:52 PM

".. where is the motherly instinct?"

freewoman .. I think that is such a pertinent question .. It's one I wonder about a lot myself ... There have been interesting studies done with some types of animals that suggest that the 'mothering instinct' needs to be socially ignited even though some part may be innate. For instance, apes (and humans too, it seems) don't automatically know how to breast-feed (even though the newborns of both species are born with an instinct to root for the breast). It's a socially learned skill ... learned by imitation/modeling.

It seems that lots of Muslim women do choose to practice breast-feeding. However, since Muslims equate feminine bodies and bodily functions with brutality and shame, breast-feeding becomes just another source of shame. In this way, Islam suffocates even the beneficially calming/nurturing hormonal messages sent by breast-feeding and thereby distorts the 'instinctual' mothering message into one of hate and shame. Add that to sex that must be endured through genital mutilation .. child marriage .. multiple wife status ... no say in anything .. legally sanctioned rape .. and the Motherly "Instinct" becomes twisted and inaccessible. It gets lost in Islam's translation of hatred for humanity.

Maybe it will be found through the sound of Free Woman's voices calling upon these women to listen deeply to themselves and begin to change the world. I sure hope so.

Posted by: Daisytoo at March 20, 2006 3:22 PM

The motherly instinct begins with the child in the womb. And it grows the moment the child is born. You protect them with your life. We all know how animals protect their young.

Maybe these women hate their husbands so much, that they don't get the love for the child. Or, maybe the women don't see a future for their children and just refuse to love them. Or, maybe they are so scared of losing their daughters to their mens whims that they distant themselves.

I don't know the answer.

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 3:36 PM

OT/

Mr. Spencer and ibn Warraq on "Janet Parschall's America" www.jpamerica.com

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at March 20, 2006 3:56 PM

freewoman,

As a girl I had a cat that was crazy. I'm not sure what caused the cat to become crazy , however, this cat ate her kittens. Maybe she did this to save them from herself ... or maybe she was acting out of some other aspect of her traumatized self, I don't know. One thing is certain for me: it was horrifying to discover her in this act of destruction and terrifically challenging to imagine what the experience must have been like for the newborn kittens.

Personally, I'm glad we don't have the answers since maybe the questions are really all that belong to us. After all, it's the Muslims who must come up with some sane answers.

Posted by: Daisytoo at March 20, 2006 4:05 PM

Naseem,

What do you know about this problem of rape in Pakistan, and what is your opinion on it?

Posted by: Archimedes at March 20, 2006 4:07 PM

Daisy, I too had a cat with kittens. And between the tom cat and my mother running over the them...well ... I didn't have kittens left.

But, back to the point, if these people can't love and care for their children, they need birth control. And it should start with the men. Maybe use something sharp.

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 4:43 PM

If those woman would use the Thai method of dealing with obnoxious husbands

????

Wife-bashers are losers no matter in what culture they live.

True, but some "cultures" see it is acceptable. In Islamic "cultures" a man would be seen as a loser if he didn't punish his wife for "disobedience", but "allowed" her to do as she pleased and "dishonour" him. (What a lot of scare-quotes.)

this cat ate her kittens

This happens. When I was little we had a cat called Fred - my dad's idea - that turned out to be female and gave birth to adorable but defective kittens. One day there was nothing (much) left of them.

Amazing I turned out so normal, all things considered.

Posted by: Interested at March 20, 2006 6:18 PM

Interested,

"When I was little we had a cat called Fred - my dad's idea - that turned out to be female and gave birth to adorable but defective kittens. " ..
You know, now that I think of it, my cat was also thought to be male (male name??) .. as yellow cats usually are .. Upon becoming pregnant ("his") name became Daffodil. It didn't help :)

If the only gender that (practically and 'spiritually') exists in Islam is male, there is bound to be a whole lot of confusion around sexuality. I think this particular variety of gender confusion in the Islamic world helps explain aberrant behavior (such as blaming women for being raped .. and basically, legally sanctioning rape). My guess is that all expressions of sexuality within Islam are fraught with some level of frustration and violence. For that, I go back to the Babylonian creation myth and watch how it's psychically/socially enacted today. Rape becomes legal and women, while they may not eat their children, hold their daughters down for genital mutilation and 'rejoice' when their sons and daughters suicide-murder.

And Interested .. lucky for you the cat was not your Mother!

Posted by: Daisytoo at March 20, 2006 6:51 PM

And Interested .. lucky for you the cat was not your Mother!

Well, I wasn't a child of the revolution.

Posted by: Interested at March 20, 2006 6:58 PM

"And of course the men don't want it changed. It's to their advantage."

Is it to their advantage, really? They don't know the benefits of living in an equal, trusting and truly loving relationship. I don't think that your average western male would enjoy living as a 'slave-owner' - at least I hope not.

Posted by: Lili at March 20, 2006 10:37 PM

Lili, if the men in islamic culture didn't enjoy the status quo as it has been for hundreds of years, they would have changed long ago.

I'm sure they enjoy their variety in women, not having to take them out, not having to reciprocate in bed, not having to argue with the little woman(women) nonstop sex 24/7.

Apparently they, the muslim males, don't see or care about the benefits of a loyal, nurturing, equal relationship.

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 10:54 PM

I think they don't see it, as western men didn't until women achieved equal rights. Freewoman, do you think that western men, brought up to appreciate strong, equal women, would enjoy living like that? Well, part of their anatomy might, but the whole person wouldn't.

Posted by: Lili at March 20, 2006 11:15 PM

LOL, my partner just said "too much like hard work!"

Posted by: Lili at March 20, 2006 11:17 PM

I think our men of today enjoy women who can do things for themselves. Aren't totally dependent on them. Except when it comes to changing a tire in the rain.

Posted by: freewoman at March 20, 2006 11:22 PM

It's not to the man's advantage - but that of the Mufti's/”profits” who benefit the most from the sexual frustration and general lack of love between man and woman.

Think back to Mo and his merry band of thugs. It was to his advantage to have sexual frustration - especially on the part of the males. How else could he convince all those stupid followers to die in Jihad to get 72 virgins??? (fight for sex - they would fight for sex if they were already getting it in a loving relationship)

If the men were in loving relationships with women, with the consequential life that such a union NATURALLY brings forth (I'm yet to see the non-hetro community do this naturally)- kids - whom loving parents would lay down their own life to protect, well could Mo really get his empire? Clearly the answer is NO! The loving fathers and mothers would not die for Mo, but would rather live to see their own flesh and blood flourish.

Individualism CANNOT exist in Islam. One must give total loyalty to the state of Islam (now what utopian idea does that sound like, you know, the one that is nearly always in bed with Islam, not for money - but simply because "birds of a feather"??).

To achieve this total loyalty the bonds of family love MUST be broken down. True Islam accomplishes this fact.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at March 21, 2006 12:20 AM

Typo:

fight for sex - they would fight for sex if they were already getting it in a loving relationship)

should read:

they fight for sex - would they fight for sex if they were already getting it in a loving relationship??

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at March 21, 2006 12:21 AM

@Interested:

The Thai method of dealing with obnoxious husbands(tm) can be seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_removal

Thailand has the lead worldwide in reattachemnts...

Posted by: Imli at March 21, 2006 3:22 AM

Let me see, the US must have a mental sickness, it has imported, for re-colonization of US, 10,000 victorious Somalis Muslims who love to Hate for Allah, unknown thousands of Iranians a gift from Jimmy Carter and Iraqis with civil war and Shiite flagellation on the mind or back for fun.
I believe 18,000 displaced Muslims from Russia with love are to be parked in Ohio along with the friendly food for Somalis. The Muslims-Arabs-Islamic et al believing in their idol Mohammed is tattooed on brain and backside from birth, do not have an allegiance to US, they are at war with us. It is in an Islam war plan by demographics and Islam is winning. The US & EU and Israelis are still looking for the enemy and/or a War Plan for Victory? We are sick.

Posted by: SirSeth at March 21, 2006 4:28 AM

Real men are not threatend a show of love. Jesus was a REAL man. He is the measuring stick for all men. Its too bad they don't respect Issa enough to read 1cor13 and act accordingly with their spouses.

Posted by: daveconcerned at March 21, 2006 4:56 PM

Fight demographic jihad. Watch out for local welfare fraud.

Posted by: daveconcerned at March 21, 2006 5:27 PM

Women of the world Unite!
Draw some cartoons of muslim men beating their wives, sex with 9 y.o girls might be a bit rich though

Had a couple of breeding rats once and sold several litters to the pet shop. Once l took the young away from their parents too early and from then on in they ate their young as soon as they were born. I never got to sell a litter of rats from them ever again.

Posted by: stranger at March 23, 2006 7:20 AM