OT, but just look at this:

As they say, "Now we know what the UN thinks (as if we didn't before)":

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/03/now-we-know-what-un-thinks-as-if-we.html

Posted by: Yojimbo at March 21, 2006 9:05 AM

I am so damned sick of seeing articles like this, and the next and the next.

Contributing to DW and JW by way of comment and sending in articles spotted elsewhere achieves nothing. We of like mind are just preaching to the converted.

At first, it's a relief to find places like this where one can "vent", or even just visit, to be assured that there is some sanity, some semblence of critical thinking, left in this world. But then, what? Does visiting and contributing (occasionally) achieve anything? Of course, it doesn't.

We silently cheer Fitzgerald, Spencer, Wafa Sultan, Hirsi Ali. GO, GO, GO! Go on talking, writing, attending conferences. But it all seems rather empty. They don't know me, or us. And they don't know we're cheering them on. Our support is invisible, and fruitless.

I take every opportunity to call talk-back radio to comment on 'Muslim" and "Islam" issues as they arise (once even had a local imam coughing and spluttering), e-mail a note of support for columnists that "get it" -- but it's not enough. We are overtaken and left in the wake of the world-wide solidarity that is Islam. Not to mention the dhimmwits in positions of power and influence who tumble, and tremble, at the mere thought of "offending" Muslims or Islam.

Unless, and until, something like the manufactured "cartoon rage" erupts, or there is another 9/11, 7/7, 12/10 that shakes the world, the vast masses of the unaware are happy to settle back into their daily routines coast along, caring, confused and uninvolved.

If anyone has an idea as to what we anonymous "little people" can do that might actually achieve something, I love to hear it.

Posted by: SandiM at March 21, 2006 9:28 AM

Looks like these guys are determined to create another taliban type state there. Taking away the rights of nonmuslims is the start.

Posted by: desidude at March 21, 2006 10:38 AM

Maybe we just all should revert back to Islam. All you have to do is shut your eyes, click your heels together and repeat 3 times 'I wish I were home'.

Posted by: JanuaryMan at March 21, 2006 10:46 AM

See, this is what most people are missing: when Muslim reach a critical mass of the population, you lose your rights, and that includes non-Muslims, women, homosexuals, ex-Muslims, wannabe-ex-Muslims, pigs und so weiter.

Indonesia and Malaysia were countries that were till recently multi-ethnic and prosperous. And now the Muslims are going about the business of establishing their Sharia state and these are the normal consequences.

Yes, I have Muslim friends, great, peaceful dudes. But I'm afraid they won't be able to do much to help me and my family once Islam is in power.

Demographic conquest, it's called. I'm not sure what Europe can do to stop this. It's going to be a relentless centuries-long struggle till Europeans finally give up and submit for the sake of peace. It's hard not to forget that Islam has patiently persisted for generations till it achieved submission.

It's time for the Chinese, Indians and Thai to leave their age-old homes in Malaysia and go to better places. Singapore is a good option with a very similar culture and climate, minus the atmosphere of an Islam come to power.

Posted by: kufr at March 21, 2006 10:47 AM

That should be: it's hard to forget that

Posted by: kufr at March 21, 2006 10:48 AM

Here, again, is a double standard: The Koran can condemn "People of the Book," without a single accurate quotation from that book. The Koran can say that Abraham built the Kabah, when no historical record puts him within 500 miles (across a desert) of Mecca. The Koran can say "they Crucified him not" without producing evidence supporting that claim. Yet when a non-Muslim reads back the offensive and violent edicts in the Koran and the hadith to Muslims, they feel their religion has been insulted.

This is only an indication of how "protected" that religion has been for centuries. Keep in mind that approximately 80% of Muslims cannot understand the Arabic which is the language of the only "authorized" version of the Koran. With the advent of satellite communications and the internet, people in the Muslim world have access to books and information that have long been censored in their own countries. This is why the imams stir up lots of dust (and blood) every time their protected world is threatened by the truth (whether it is a cartoon or a straight talking ex-Muslim Arab).

Yes, websites that expose Islamic hypocrisy and Islamic barbarity are mostly "preaching to the choir." However, there is more that can be done than just bask in our self-righteousness. We can write letters to the editor when newspapers publish falsehoods asserted by Islamic apologists. We can call in to talk shows when they allow the same kind of garbage to be broadcast. We can send emails directly to authors and institutions when they disseminate outrageous propaganda. We can write notes of support and encouragement to those who are speaking the truth and courageously criticizing some of the unsavory tenants of Islam. And most importantly, we can show kindness and tolerance to the Muslims who live peacefully around us.

Posted by: Chris at March 21, 2006 10:55 AM

SandiM,

I have to disagree with you. As I've stated before, this site is an education in and of itself. The stories repeated here are posted primarily for that educational purpose--to demonstrate that there is a real connection between an observable fact, such as the injustice to the individuals in this story, and the teachings of Islam. In part, these stories are cautionary--these things can happen to you, too, if you don't defend yourself. In part, these stories make clear what isn't always clear--for example, those thousands of Jordanians marching against terrorism aren't protesting against the killing of infidels, but against the killing of innocent Muslims. How many commentators killing trees, trons and viewers' minds caught that important and immutable fact? And if nothing else, the posting of these stories at least supplies facts, patterns of incidents that in and of themselves pose questions such as, why does this kind of behavior occur almost exclusively in Islamic countries? And is this what awaits us?

I understand your frustration in the lack of public outrage, but education is the first part of reversing the growing dhimmitization of the West. What can you, as one of the "little people"," do now? Learn and teach, and the numbers of those who will resist will grow.

Posted by: longtime lurker at March 21, 2006 11:04 AM

To say you can't understand or relevantly criticize Islam is the same as to say that you can't understand or relevantly crticize Communism if you are not a Communist or Nazism if you are not a Nazist. If no one would be allowed to criticize an ideology other than what one sees as one's own, there would be no meaningful political debate about anything, ever. Infidels should learn to tell Muslims: if you want to impose Islam as law and politics, you'll have to deal with it being criticized like any other political ideology. You want it protected from criticism as a private and sacred religion, make it such. Throw away the political stuff if you can. So simple, so impossible for some to grasp.

Posted by: rahel at March 21, 2006 11:16 AM

SandiM,

Longtime Lurker is so right, all you have to do is tell people about the issue in the most non-extreme way possible, which is very difficult as the subject is extreme. Push people to learn, tease out their concerns and push them in that direction. Try not to preach, try to advise.

The more people are showing concern, the more likely that the politicians will stand up and do what is necessary, attack the miss-use of racism for criticising Islam, I keep pointing out that racism will lose its effectiveness if miss-used in this way. Attack the use of Islamophobia by the ignorant and Muslims. The aim is to make the politicians lose their fear of being branded a racist.

Try to get the left on board, some are completely lost, but the decent left is coming to realize the issue.

Join the Blue scarf movement as I am going to do, or create your own group as part of this movement.

The more we can create a pressure group the more power we have, we can start to push politicians in the right direction.

Does that help?

Posted by: Daffersd at March 21, 2006 11:38 AM

SandiM:

I share your frustration. I think Longtime Lurker and Daffersd have offered very useful thoughts on where we're at and what we as individuals can do.

I personally advocate maintaing regular and critical contact with elected representatives and becoming a familiar to the editors of the local press. Other options exist of course, such as the The Blue Scarf campaign. However, this campaign appears to be more a matter of personal initiative than a movement per se and I personally am not aware of its specific goals. Is it a campaign demosntrating support for the preservation of persoanl liberties? Can anyone provide a bit of background on this?

Posted by: Chatillon at March 21, 2006 12:23 PM

Tiny Singapore has to pay the Jizya to Malaysia in the form of free education to ethnic Malays (read Muslims). This causes a lot of resentment amongst the non Muslim Singaporeans.

Posted by: Celsius at March 21, 2006 12:46 PM

"Infidels should learn to tell Muslims: if you want to impose Islam as law and politics, you'll have to deal with it being criticized like any other political ideology. You want it protected from criticism as a private and sacred religion, make it such. Throw away the political stuff if you can."

Very well said, rahel. Unfortunately, doing just that when you've become a minority in a now Muslim-majority land is mortally incorrect. As the Malaysians have just found out. As did the Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Or the Buddhist Afghans. Or the Christian Egyptians. Or the Christians in Europe?

paladin: Sadly, based on history, the non-Muslims in Malaysia have two options worth considering in the long run: submit to Islam and live as respectable Muslims in Malaysia, or leave. The idea usually is to make living as a non-Muslim so intolerable that people will finally submit. Read up on the history of Bangladesh and Pakistan where Hindus have been raped, killed and converted and have gone down from 14% of the population to 1.4 and .14% in just 50 years or so. The signs are quite clear in Malaysia today. What happened in those countries is the usual course. Better to make a decision early.

Posted by: kufr at March 21, 2006 12:50 PM

SandiM,

You raise a number of good criticisms; these are thoughts many of us probably have from time to time. I see several posters have responded above, so I won't belabour the issue. Nevertheless, education, writing letters to politicians and media outlets when an issue arises, talking to friends and family members...all of this on this individual level is important.

Also ask: What if we did or said nothing? We would not only not maintain whatever ground we have claimed, but we'd lose much more because the other side does not let up. So we have to keep it up and keep using our creativity and keep educating each other. I've learned a lot from the writers here as well as other posters.

----------------------------

Re: sedition charge,

this keeps coming up. The penalty for sedition directed against Islam is execution (Koran, 33:60-62). When those who adhere strictly to the Koran are in power, they will apply this rule because it applies for all time (33:62). They will also apply it based on Mohammad's example (33:21) and the Hadith which show Mohammad executing and asssassinating critics. The biggest threat to Islam is free criticism of Islam. Mohammad knew that, and today's Islamists know that. That's why they kill critics. Muslims have a chance to repent, but non-Muslims are executed (if they don't convert to Islam).

Posted by: Archimedes at March 21, 2006 1:03 PM

All countries tethered to the Kuran will sooner or later transform themselves into Islamo-fascist states. Malaysia is a shining exaple of this as can plainly be seen here. And there is actually nothing anyone can do about it. It is not for nothing that Apostates of Islam refer to their ex-'religion' as the "Cocoon of Terror."

Islam is certainly nothing if not the "Cocoon of Terror." Except maybe the kingdom of the killer-Zombies.

Posted by: pythagoras at March 21, 2006 2:20 PM

Chris: The least of our worries is Islam's clear and abundant hypocrisies. This damn thing has BRUTALLY murdered HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS OVER THE PAST FOURTEEN CENTURIES AND IS SET TO REPEAT THIS PATTERN OF BRUTALITY AGAIN AND AGAIN.

THAT is what we need concern ourselves with at this point.

The hell with hypocrisy in Islam.

Posted by: pythagoras at March 21, 2006 2:24 PM

All non-Muslims should seriously consider the possibility of evacuating the smiling land of Malaysian islamo-fascism immediately.

As Southeast Asia turns into an arid, desolate wasteland through massive ecological devastation caused by massive and unparalleled deforestation rates these people will eventually face starvation if genocide at the hands of Malaysian jihadists doesn't come first.

Malaysian infidel folks: It's definitely time to get out of Malaysia. Take your money, possessions and CLEAR THE HECK OUT NOW.

Posted by: pythagoras at March 21, 2006 2:32 PM

Okay, after discussing this with some Malaysians, it appears that accepting Islam isn't that big a deal to them. Most of them aren't too religious (they're Confucians, Hindus, and Buddhists mainly) and don't really care whom they're asked to pray to. And they point to the benefits of full Muslim membership (not sure if they're serious or kidding): upto 4 wives, monetary and other benefits from Saudi Arabia, no persecution or discrimination, right to head the government etc. Why be a sad dhimmi when you can be a crazed-happy Muslim? Sad..

Posted by: kufr at March 21, 2006 3:48 PM

Does Malaysia give the accused the constitutional right to face their accuser? A novel defense which I would love to try but do not have the guts to, I do not particularly want to die any time soon., would be to call on Allah to take the witness stand and confirm that the words in the Qur’an are actually and truthfully (his, hers, its) words. Mohammed was only human as such prone to make mistakes, he also died a long time ago thus cannot take the witness stand and the words as written are second hand hear say evidence, inadmissible. BUT Allah "was before time and will always be". If the prosecution cannot produce the accuser, the one who actually spoke the words of the Qur’an, the case must be on legal grounds dismissed. As an agnostic I sit on the sidelines and laugh at all those religions which claim to be the one and only perfect religion (and I’ll kill you to prove it).
The communists were right about one thing, religion is the opiate of the people, and now it would appear those who follow Islam smoke virtually all of it.

Posted by: WLF at March 21, 2006 3:58 PM

Sad especially when Malaysian/US trade is expected to double, and their cars will be sold here as part of that...

Ironic that the Malaysian Student Association, which is ironically made up of all Malaysian Chinese, is having a culturefest to make Malaysia look good when the country is going downhill.

Posted by: Itachi at March 21, 2006 5:58 PM

"Mohamad Nazri Abdul Aziz said the country's sedition act could be used on non-Muslims who make comments construed as belittling Islam"

Let them persecute these non-Muslims - Australia is getting rich from these non-muslims when they flee these Islamic paradises of tolerance for Aussie shores. Better still they bring stories to the West about true Islam.

It makes me fear for my own family though (part Malay) when I see things such as this (especially as they are native Indo Malay infidels/apostates). Islam is great at dividing families.

Such a "tolerant" religion. NOT.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at March 21, 2006 10:24 PM

kufr - that same Saudi money that's buying the Malay's is also buying off our educators and pollies - what's worse is that it now has a momentem (sp) of it's own (the Saudi's don't even need to spend their money to perpetuate their lie!)

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at March 21, 2006 10:26 PM

Hi SandiM

Why not start with what I do which is to spread the word. What I do is send selected posts from this site to people I know to show them the true nature of islam. it has born fruit in that some of those have sent them on to others who in turn have sent then further. Knowledge is a weapon. I also react when I hear an untruth about islam spoken by someone in public by challenging it with facts, this works in about a third of the cases as they are speaking out of ignorance not malice.

Posted by: learnmore at March 22, 2006 12:57 AM

Kurf - you are right in every count. As a Malaysian it is so sad it has come to this. Should non-Muslims leave Malaysia?

Answer is emphatic NO. Till how long should infidels continue to retreat. Ask Hindus or Serbs. There will a point where retreat wont be possible. The only answer is to stay and make Muslims fight for every inch of land. Thats how isolated Israeli settelements survived in the Arab-Israeli war of 1948.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at March 22, 2006 2:36 AM

Kufr

Malaysian Chinese and Tamils need to start breeding. In record numbers. And they need to follow the example of the Dayaks - resisting by force Malaysian attempts to suppress them.

You are still close to 50% of the population. Let there be a civil war. Once you smuggle enough weapons in, you have a fair chance. Let the Muslims fight for it. In Borneo, they are a minority except in Brunei.

Thailand needs to get serious about its Jihad problem as well. More troops on the Malay border.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 22, 2006 2:51 AM

Methinks that Malaysia is part of the so-called British Commonwealth of Nations. Now the Commonwealth imposed sanctions, I believe, on Zimbabwe because Mugabe was supposed to be abusing the rights of some of his population. What is the Commonwealth going to do about Malaysia which clearly practices all sorts of discrimination against the non-Muslim part of the population?
Maybe the Commonwealth is just continuing the long-time British policy of being pro-Muslim, pro-Arab. Or maybe Malaysia & Mahathir get a free ride because they're much richer than Mugabe.

Posted by: Eliyahu at March 22, 2006 4:56 AM

To all those who've offered suggestions, thank you. Very much appreciated. I'll keep on keeping on.

Posted by: SandiM at March 22, 2006 5:05 AM

guys, its not too bad living in malaysia as a non muslim/malay, heres some points in top 10 order; (disclaimer: no pun intended, by no means if you are offended, if you feel so, then dont read this, I wont be liable for your feelings)

10. you get to pay 5-8% more for property.

9. you get save battery from alarm clocks, the local mosques are kind enough to wake you up. highly dependent to proximity.

8. you get to pay taxes thats used for undisclosed purposes while muslims get to pay special taxes to support the muslim community.

7. you get to see large (sometimes expensive) mosques next to shopping complexes & prominent landmarks & way we go with the congestions.

6. you get to pay to serve halal food in your restaurant that takes say 10 years to be approved.

5. you get to work harder & save with barely getting ends meet for your son's university fee. & pass the success formula to him to work for his kids again. haha.

4. you get to witness first hand a paralysed (then passed away) hindu man's body taken custody by islamic authorities with a mob of 1000+ . & the fun part is his wife that took care of him has no clue. She must have been delighted to keep the pension fees as shes not the legal wife anymore.

3. you get to appoint a malay director to your company to get loans & listed. After all we encourage mixtures in all races, even in business.

2. you get to witness verbal along with keris (short knives) threats from prominent polititions. The same people that their great ancestors were probably hindus or some other religion.

1. you get to become a bumiputera (term for 1st class citizen) by converting to muslim, migrating to indonesia, change your name, wait for 5 years, come back to Malaysia, apply for citizenship by marrying a malay lady & wait for 5 more years.

There we go, top 10 list

If you dont hear this, its because people are too affraid to go to jail. If you dont here from me again, Im most probably in jail.

cheers to malaysia.

Posted by: tjwork at March 22, 2006 3:17 PM

And here I have been hearing the commercials on CNN advertizing tourism to Malaysia: Malaysia, Truly Asia. Tell me please, if Malaysia is truly Asia! Say it ain't so, Joe, and tj!

A lot of Israelis go to Thailand on tour, but somehow they're passing up Truly Asia [as fraudulent a label, I'm sure, as Eddie Said's claim that the Arabs represent the East, even the ancient East]. Should Israelis who go to Thailand or India but not Pakistan or Malaysia be considered racists or anti-Islamists?

Posted by: Eliyahu at March 24, 2006 5:58 AM

Thanx for the info, Paladin. I'm going to call my travel agent right away and cancel my plane tickets to Kuala Lumpur.

More seriously, you guys living in or originally from Malaysia ought to be doing a lot more to publicize what goes on there. I'm sure that few people outside Malaysia know the true story.

Posted by: Eliyahu at March 25, 2006 1:47 PM