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The next time you enjoy a baked potato and some green beans with your t-bone, be sure to utter a quiet prayer of gratitude to Allah for the portentious invention of the three-course meal.
But of course, there are many more things for which we owe gratitude to Islam, cars, carpets, and cameras among them -- at least according to a new exhibition in Al-Britannia: "1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage of Our World," which has gotten support from the Home Office and the Department for Trade and Industry.
I have several reactions to this. The first is skepticism. In my book The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), I examine several of the most common inventions and innovations attributed to Muslims and find that actually they are the work of Christians and Jews who lived in Muslim societies. Does this mean that Muslims aren't capable of creating something on their own? Of course it doesn't. But it does mean that for various purposes, political and otherwise, the historical achievements of Muslims have been exaggerated. This exhibition is not the first time it has happened. So caveat emptor.
Second: cars and cameras? I am no expert on the genesis of either one, but I don't recall ever hearing about Henry Ford or Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre working closely with Muslims who gave them a few tips about how to get where they wanted to go. I don't remember ever seeing photos of, say, the Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II (d. 1839) or Muhammad Ali of Egypt (d. 1849) -- or even a photo of people tooling around Constantinople or Cairo in automobiles circa 1890 or 1900.
Of course, the exhibition most likely intends to establish that Muslims invented not the car or camera as such, but some component of each, without which the thing itself could not have come into being. But such an argument is extremely tenuous. It depends, in the first place, on the assumption that those who actually came up with the finished product could not have developed on their own whatever component Muslims supposedly supplied. But if the infidels were able to take this component so much farther than Muslims ever could -- using it to develop cars and cameras, both of which originated in the West, not in the Islamic world -- is that a fair assumption?
Second, such an argument is subject to endless atomization. If Muslims developed some key element of the car and the camera, were they perhaps building upon earlier discoveries made by non-Muslims? If so, would this vitiate their achievement in the minds of those who mounted this exhibition? If it wouldn't, but were instead discounted as irrelevant, than would not the the development of these key components of cars and cameras by Muslims also be irrelevant?
And third, in what way did the Muslim development of these key components depend on their Islam? Did these putative innovators innovate because they were Muslim? There is some considerable evidence that if any actually did innovate, they did it in spite of being Muslim -- I explain why in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades). But even leaving that aside, were they Muslim inventors or inventors who happened to be Muslim? This is a fair question to ask whenever inventions are attributed to any group: i.e., if Daguerre was a Christian, that still wouldn't make the daguerrotype a Christian invention, because his creed is simply irrelevant to his development of a practical process of photography -- except in the most indirect or contextual way, as it may have made for a cultural environment in which such investigations were desirable and welcome. So if we owe cars and cameras to Muslims, it is fair to ask whether or not that is because of their Islam, or if their Islam is incidental to whatever it was they contributed.
Ultimately, the question that must be asked of this exhibition is: so what? What if Muslims really did give us all things? What point is being made? Professor Mark Halstead sums it up at the end of this article: "Islam needs to take its place alongside other historic groups, such as the ancient Romans and Greeks. When Europe was living in the dark ages, Islamic civilisation was blossoming, and the advances during this period are more relevant to the modern world than those of the Ancient Egyptians and Aztecs."
Of course they're more relevant to the modern world, because there aren't any ancient Romans or Greeks or ancient Egyptians or Aztecs immigrating to Western countries in large numbers today, but there are Muslims. The point of this exhibition is to lessen anxieties among Western non-Muslims about this immigration, and to turn their attention away from honor killings, boasts about the coming domination of Islam, and jihad violence -- all of which we are already seeing in Western countries.
But you see, we're told, that isn't the true face of Islam. The true face of Islam is the car and the camera and the three-course meal. Aside from the What-Have-You-Done-For-Me-Lately aspect of this, which is an important question in light of the relative development of Islamic societies today, ultimately this is completely irrelevant -- as The Religious Policeman riotously pointed out in his Muslim Offense Level chart. He explains the "Elevated -- Quite Offended" level as: "We are definitely cross, because people keep blaming us for 9/11, Parisian cars getting torched, Saudi women getting stoned." And the non-Muslim response? "Pretend that these things have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, tell everyone how we brought algebra to 9th Century Spain."
So what if Muslims did bring algebra to 9th-century Spain and three-course meals to gourmands everywhere? Would that change the jihad ideology? Would that eradicate the traditional Islamic imperative, affirmed by all the schools of Islamic law, to fight to impose Sharia and the hegemony of the Islamic social order everywhere?
Of course it wouldn't. It would just make that hegemony easier to live under. This UK exhibition is offering the British public a spoonful of sugar to help them swallow the idea of imminent Islamic supremacy more easily.
From The Guardian, with thanks to Sandi:
It is the thread that links cars, carpets and cameras and is also responsible for three-course meals, bookshops and modern medicine.The Islamic civilisation, according to the curators of a national exhibition that opened this week, has made an enormous but largely neglected contribution to the way we live in the west.
The project, 1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage of Our World, supported by the Home Office and the Department for Trade and Industry, uncovers the Islamic civilisation's overlooked contribution to science, technology and art during the dark ages in European history.
It lifts the veil on hundreds of innovations - from kiosks and chess through to windmills and cryptography - that are often popularly associated with the western world but originate from Muslim scholarship and science.
Based on more than 3,000 peer-reviewed academic studies, the exhibition charts Islamic innovations during ten decades of "missing history" spanning from the 6th to the 16th century and covering an area stretching from China to southern Spain.
Tailored to appeal to school children and their teachers, and accompanied by a book and online resource, the project was launched at Manchester's Museum of Science and Industry and will tour the country.
Professor Salim al-Hassani, who has led a five-year project to collate and validate the research behind the exhibition, said: "If you ask the average person where their spectacles or camera or fountain pen come from, few people would say Muslims.
"A lot of these scientific and cultural developments are accepted as fact in the academy, but the vast majority of people - because of the nature of the education system - are completely unaware of their origins."
In his own field, mechanical engineering, Professor al-Hassani has used original 13th century manuscripts to produce virtual reconstructions of sophisticated water pumps and cranks.
"The technology behind these mechanisms was incredibly sophisticated for its time and eventually gave birth to pioneering machinery which still features in every single car," he said.
A central theme is the exchange of knowledge and culture between civilisations and their lasting significance today.
For example, the 9th century musician and fashion designer known as Ziryab, who travelled from Iraq to Andalusia in Spain, is said to have introduced the concept of the three-course meal.
Meanwhile, it was Caliph al-Ma'mum's interest in astronomy that led to the development of large observatories, sophisticated astronomical instruments and a rigorous analysis of the stars.
The organisers, the Manchester-based Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilisation, hope to use the compilation to bring about an audit of the national curriculum to ensure it recognises Islamic achievements and the full extent of knowledge transfer between civilisations through the ages.
"For a lot of children in schools, the history of science seems untouchable and remote," said Yasmin Khan, the exhibitions project manager. "We need to change the way we explain civilisation's progress in our schools."
Last year, the government's preventing extremism working group on education proposed that the entire education system should be instilled with "a more faithful reflection of Islam and its civilisation".
Professor Mark Halstead, a lecturer in moral education at Plymouth University, said there was scope in the existing curriculum to teach the contributions of Islamic civilisation, but teachers required better training.
"Islam needs to take its place alongside other historic groups, such as the ancient Romans and Greeks," he said.
"When Europe was living in the dark ages, Islamic civilisation was blossoming, and the advances during this period are more relevant to the modern world than those of the Ancient Egyptians and Aztecs."
Posted by Robert at March 22, 2006 7:54 AM
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the 9th century musician and fashion designer known as Ziryab, who travelled from Iraq to Andalusia in Spain, is said to have introduced the concept of the three-course meal.
Music and fashion were always the passion
With the Umm---aaaah
Don't fall in luuuuurrrve
I thought music was haram. And fashion? A black sack? Perhaps the fashion was only for men, as indeed it is today, with the rise of metrosexual Muslim man and his bi-chadored bint
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at March 22, 2006 8:08 AM
Come on. It was the communists who invented all this stuff. Just read their history books from the Soviet Union!
Posted by: Quijybo at March 22, 2006 8:11 AM
So the Muslims invented the baked potato same as the French invented French fries? Thanks. Though Ted Bell (American steakhouse owner) claims he invented the foil wrapped baked potato
Posted by: dennisw at March 22, 2006 8:17 AM
This crap really needs to stop. Where are the science historians? Why won't they set these dhimmis straight? Somebody has to speak up. This is blatant propaganda. Sooner or later we are going to be accepting the fact that Muslims discovered America and spearheaded the Enlightenment. Oh, and did you know that Hume was a Muslim?
Posted by: igor at March 22, 2006 8:19 AM
Personally, I've always been perplexed that the guillotine was not invented in the Islamic world. But then again, the "up close and personal" method has always been preferred in Islam.
Posted by: kafira at March 22, 2006 8:20 AM
How's this for an invention? These guys built their own radio controlled flying saucers and stirred up the citizens of Orange County, California.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/21/wufo21.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/21/ixnewstop.html
at March 22, 2006 8:22 AM
They might have invented the baked potato 800 years before Sir Walter Raleigh brought the spud back from the US. My money is on the irrelevant Aztec's for that, who also invented chocolate, without which my world would be so miserable I would have to drink a gallon of small beer a day, like the nuns of Barking Abbey. But I bet they didn't have a hand in bacon and egg, Lincolnshire sausages or crackling.
at March 22, 2006 8:24 AM
Muslims did not invent the carpet but this is surely one area in which they have excelled. A Greek friend of mine would venture into Muslim towns and buy carpets. He saw them being made by the docile woman folk along with child labor. These towns were poor and backward. He told me he could never conceive of a Greek woman having the patience to weave one.
Carpets of Central Asia:
http://www.rugreview.com/mosh1.htm
at March 22, 2006 8:32 AM
How does one invent anything if they aren't allowed to think outside of the koran?
Posted by: freewoman at March 22, 2006 8:34 AM
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm assuming everyone here is familiar with the "What Arab Civilization?" letter sent to Carly Fiorina, one of the worst CEOs in recent corporate history:
http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm
In case the Brits have forgotten, Nazi Germany was the first to develop: a modern assault rifle, the first jet fighter, the first rocket-powered airplane, the first ballistic missile (V2), the first "cruise" missile (V1), the first flying wing (although it remained an experimental craft), and an urban-combat firearm capable of firing around corners. Not sure if genocide will be on display, though, considering that was probably invented by the Turks.
Perhaps there are more important criteria which should be used to evaluate a culture/civilization than the trinkets they *might* have developed.
Posted by: Darius LaMonica at March 22, 2006 8:38 AM
It's funny but wherever you go, tour guides will tell you that their country invented soap.
Posted by: Interested at March 22, 2006 8:44 AM
What a pile of dung. Irrelevant revisionist and par for the course for Religion "Junior". Just another Islamic pissing contest of lies and deceit. Treat it with contempt.
Posted by: Turbinehead at March 22, 2006 8:47 AM
Say Islam is innovative, or we'll kill you.
at March 22, 2006 8:58 AM
Say Islam is tolerant of criticism of their innovation, or we'll put you back together again, and kill you again.
at March 22, 2006 8:59 AM
"When Europe was living in the dark ages, Islamic civilisation was blossoming,"
And today, Islamic "civilization" is living in the dark ages, and Israeli civilization is blossoming.
I wonder if this little fact will become part of the curriculum.
Note: For more information on Israeli scientific advances, visit the website www.israel21c.org
Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at March 22, 2006 9:02 AM
Perhaps the exhibit should include the Muslim invention of the cell phone at Motorola-Israel in "Palestine"?
The number of inventions that have emanated from Israel are remarkable and evoke respect and admiration from rational non-Jews. This kind of creative intelligence evokes hatred and fear from others? Why?
Posted by: Frank at March 22, 2006 9:07 AM
I’m not sure about their inventions but they have mastered rape, pedophilia, torture, intimidation and slavery among their other fine accomplishments.
Posted by: Ronin at March 22, 2006 9:09 AM
Please excuse me while I PUKE..........
Posted by: Jewish Girl at March 22, 2006 9:25 AM
Granny, et al:
The Arabs couldn't have invented baked potatoes, or potatoes cooked in any other fashion. Potatoes and tomatoes were imports from the New World, brought back to Europe by Spanish explorers in the 1500s. The French were so suspicious of the potato's botanical origins (deadly nightshade family) that its promoters named the vegetable pomme de terre -- apple of the earth.
No, the point of this pathetic claim to fame is not to establish the agricultural and culinary greatness of Islam, but that the practice of not hauling out all of the comestibles at once comes from the Arabs. Talk about clutching at straws.
Here's a claim to fame I'd rather people concerned themselves with: tiny, beseiged Israel, population 5 million, publishes more scientific papers annually than the entire Arab world and it's also home to the foremost medical research institution in the world.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at March 22, 2006 9:29 AM
"When Europe was living in the dark ages, Islamic civilisation was blossoming, and the advances during this period are more relevant to the modern world than those of the Ancient Egyptians and Aztecs"
The dark ages is a myth that has little basis is historical reality. During this era the Catholic Church was a centre of discovery and ingenuity. The basis for capitilism and political freedom, which ultimately led to the creation of human rights, had its geneisis in 11th century monostary's. Also concieved in this era in Christiandom was we today recognize as the modern hospital and university--creations that came to life because of the Church's metaphysical view of the universe.
There is a reason why the scientific revolution and the enlightment took place in Europe and not Islam--because Sharia ultimately stifles dissent, experimentaion, independent thought, and growth. As well, the Muslim view of the Universe--i.e., that to postulate consistent and natural laws that are amenable to human discovery is inconsistent with Allahs omnipotent sovereignty--prevented the growth of science and research into the natural world; dont expect them to tell u this at the exhibition
Posted by: Dhimmiwatch in Canada at March 22, 2006 9:34 AM
The so called arabic numerals are actually Hindu numerial. Arabs took it from India and introduced elsewhere. Al-Khwarizmi wrote On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals.Algoritmi de numero Indorum ("al-Khwarizmi on the Hindu Art of Reckoning") on Arithmetic, which survived in a Latin translation but was lost in the original Arabic.The work on arithmetic first introduced the Hindu numbers to Europe, as the very name algorism signifies.
Posted by: Sandracottus at March 22, 2006 9:38 AM
Tailored to appeal to school children and their teachersOr, in other words, 'teaching pack' propaganda. Everyone knows that, for the most part, modern teachers cannot (or will not, dependent upon your perspective) take the time to produce quality course materials and teaching plans.
Eh, voila! Prettily pre-packaged, pre-digested 'learning', just waiting to be consumed.
And am I the only one who finds this deeply worrying?
the entire education system should be instilled with "a more faithful reflection of Islam and its civilisation".
Sorry, I think I missed a meeting - what civilisation?
at March 22, 2006 9:42 AM
Jewishgirl.....I'm with you my friend.
Talk about rewriting history and publishing bulls..t.
Posted by: marilyn at March 22, 2006 9:45 AM
Totally OT
"Ted Bell (American steakhouse owner) claims he invented the foil wrapped baked potato"
Being an Idahoan, and Ex-Restaurateur - a foil wrapped tater is not baked. It is steamed...
A true BAKER is washed, salted, and cooked in its skin at 375 until a fork can penetrate to the center. A goes from a hot Oven to Plate! No middle ground, No capitulation!
A FWT sits in a steam tray and arrives to the plate mediocre and warm…
GOD, please safe the BAKER.
>>rant off.
at March 22, 2006 9:55 AM
In the late 1980s I read an article in Arab News about modern Saudi inventors. Singled out for most outstanding innovation was a fellow who created a device that connected a telephone ringer signal to a common table lamp. When the phone rang the lamp would flash. It was designed to let deaf people know when the phone was ringing. They never did explain what a deaf person would do if they picked up the handset of a ringing phone.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at March 22, 2006 10:01 AM
JihadWatch is generally good, but everynow and then it achieves excellence. This is one of those times where I think that Robert Spencer hit top marks with his introduction.
There were indeed some contributions to science and to culture that should be credited to Muslims. They did invent tiles, they invented primitive navigational intruments, and they even introduced oranges in Europe for medicinal purposes (although the sweet oranges commonly eaten worldwide came from India and were brought to Europe in the XVI century by the Portuguese - the variety from Arabia was too bitter). The cure for scurvy can be owed to Muslims (the Dutch - and a few decades afterwards, the English - found out the medicinal use of lemons, thus the name "limeys"). The use of pepper and other spices was popularized in Europe only after the Crusades. We can even say that while medieval Muslims bathed for religious purposes, medieval Christians avoided the bath for exactly the same reason.
But with the exceptions of the bath )which is indeed "prescribed" by the Koran) and of eating pork (copied from Judaism, it was originally a reasonable measure to prevent infection by intestinal parasites), are the other contributions really Islamic? Is the aeroplane a "Christian" invention? How about the radio? The automobile? Steam engine? The cure for beriberi, the erradication of smallpocks, tuberculosis, or cholera? If so, it would be thouroughly humiliating to Muslims to realise that most of the scientific conquests of their world are not really theirs, but Christian. And Muslims wouldn't even come second, they would come third of fourth, definitely behind the Greeks and the Romans. And have some respect for the ancient Egyptians. They built the Sphinx and the pyramids while Muslims damaged the first and pillaged the sandstone cover of the latter.
As many of you said - or at least hinted -, religion brings social stability at the expense of inventiveness. The more castrative a religious belief is, the less inventive the believers will be. This is true about every religion, including Christianity, and it is also the reason why it is completely hilarious for anyone to believe that a religion as intolerant as Islam could have fostered any major discoveries.
Posted by: cruzado at March 22, 2006 10:03 AM
This reminds me of when children boast about doing things patently impossible for them to have ever completed successfully.
The mistake that we all make is that THEY believe in all of this codswallop. They will believe in anything which makes them seem superior. If that is not a sign of desperation then what is?
Perehaps all of this dhimmitude is just to humour the poor sterile morons and not rub in overmuch their obvious inferiority both of creativity and of civilisation. If they were such violent scum I could even feel sorry for them
Posted by: Zathras at March 22, 2006 10:17 AM
Islam surely invented the four course meal.
Flapdoodle, piffle, falderol and b.s. for dessert.
But their greatest 'invention' was stealing someone else's religion and calling it your own.
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 22, 2006 10:37 AM
Native Americans had squash, beans and corn long before The Profit. Ancient Rome, India and China also served a good spread. Yet it is possible Ziryah did eat better than the swabs in the Royal Navy. These proud Muslims had best restrict the display to young children--there are sure to be a few educatd teachers who won't hesitate to dispute the obvious fictions.
Posted by: justsayno2islam at March 22, 2006 10:38 AM
waterdragon52:
Regarding the scientific contributions of Arabs (or Muslims) and Jews - just list the Nobel Prizes for science and medicine respectively won by each group. Around 13-15 millions Jews have won about 150 whereas over one billion Muslims have won about five. Talk about under-achievers.
Posted by: johnb at March 22, 2006 10:46 AM
johnb-
Surely you know that Einstein had a Muslim gardener who really came up with E=mc2?
Jews have been stealing humble Muslims inventionsa and getting the credit for it since Moses stole the Bible from Mohammad.
How did he do that?
Via yet another Muslim invention, the camel-dung powered time machine.
Zionist propaganda has blinded everyone to this Nobel thievery.
(Muslims also invented the pencil sharpener. Unfortunately, this was in 700 A.D., long before the pencil's existence, so the comlicated device languished in a Beirut mosque for over 1,000 years, until its real use was recognized by a wandering French archeologist in the 1920's. Sadly, he was killed by an angry Muslim mob as he tried to insert a blunted pencil in its orifice, which they mistook for an insult to Allah.)
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 22, 2006 10:59 AM
... invention of the three-course meal
This might pass muster with someone who's never heard of the Romans.
What a load of tripe! The "achievements" of Islam seem not to amount to much more than getting a few slaves to translate Aristotle. And, of course, paying any attention to what Aristotle had thought was pretty soon stamped on. Anyway, most of the interpreters are fairly second-rate and seem always to return from argument to Islamic doctrine - although perhaps Leo Strauss is right and they could see through Islam but couldn't risk saying so, so hinted instead.
"Islam's" most famous architect was Koca Sinan (c.,/em> 1500-1588) a Greek-speaking Christian from Central Anatolia who was conscripted by these thugs into the Janissaries and converted (and what a tale of woe hides behind such words and phrases).
Oh, I forgot the calligraphy.
But, of course, all this heap of dishonesty is supposed deceive the British public, to sell Islam to them, to make things like this all right:
http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/ymg/blogs/blogs-799561836-1142888731.jpg?ymc0KV7Ce3Hg7S3s
at March 22, 2006 11:04 AM
The world knows they can't invent anything but jihad. But what I want to know is, they enjoy all the things westerners invented, cell phones, computers, jeans, cars, etc., and yet knowing that all modern technology would die out if islam took over, are they trying to destroy it?
It makes no sense. They could have stayed in the desert and still enjoyed all this without ever leaving home. Go figure.
Posted by: freewoman at March 22, 2006 11:28 AM
As a guy who lives in country witch was some time ago under USSR influence, i must say that islam is unsurprisingly using the same propaganda tactics as the Soviets used. 40 years ago it was common in books, popular science magazines etc. to say that the biggest technical advances in history were Russian ones. So we had first space flight (Yurij Gagarin), first radio (by mr. Popov), first nuclear power plant (in USSR), first liquid-propelled rockets (Russian), first areoplanes etc etc. Some of them were true, but many were just fakes.
...I am waiting the day when Muslims declare, that they were first in space...
Posted by: DoktorNo at March 22, 2006 11:34 AM
re: the proscription against "eating pork (copied from Judaism, it was originally a reasonable measure to prevent infection by intestinal parasites)"
I think this is an anachronistic interpretation.
at March 22, 2006 11:39 AM
"I am waiting the day when Muslims declare, that they were first in space..."
DoktorNo ... I'm afraid you'll be waiting for a very long time .. Didn't you hear that we never went to the moon? According to the ignoramuses of the world, it's a conspiracy!
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
As far as the 'invention' of bookstores ... let's pretend for a moment that Bookstores did indeed arise from the Ummah. Now will someone explain the extraordinary illiteracy rate of Muslims?
Books may be traded (like by the nasty old Bookseller of Kabul) but are they written or read within the ummah? Apparently, not very often at all ...
Posted by: Daisytoo at March 22, 2006 11:47 AM
Just a few comments on Muslim innovations.
Muslims didn't invent chess: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2155916.stm
But here are two great 20th century scientists:
Abdus Salam http://nobelprize.org/physics/laureates/1979/salam-bio.html
and Ahmed Zewail http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/zewail/zewail_interview.html
Both are Muslims and claim to have been inspired by the Quran. Personally, I have no problem with Islam as an individual inspiration, only as a political ideology. However, it should be noted that both of these men did their work in the West.
It might also be worth mentioning Ibn Sina, one of the greatest poets and thinkers of Islamic history. Ibn Sina drank wine. In most Muslim countries today he would have been physically punished or even killed for such a transgression. The political Islam we're facing today is obviously not a religion at its best.
Posted by: Morten Nielsen at March 22, 2006 11:49 AM
Why is wine a no-no here and yet they are allowed to drink it while cavorting with 72 virgins?
Posted by: freewoman at March 22, 2006 11:55 AM
Why is wine a no-no here and yet they are allowed to drink it while cavorting with 72 virgins?
Why, indeed.
I have heard that it says somewhere that the wine will not be "heady". It sounds like a quibble to me - an exercise in "harmonizing" different statements to attempt to put an end to such questions.
In any event, a rewards-and-punishments theology sounds fairly primitive to me. It seems to emerge in Ancient Egypt - there's a text of a dialogue where a soul tries to justify itself after death.
It's certainly not what Christianity teaches at all - you could just about read the odd parable in that way, but only if you misread it and missed the point. For Christians, no-one earns salvation - it's a free gift.
And for the Ancient Greeks moderation is part of the character of a well-ordered soul. Without it, rationality would not be possible. There is no prize for being moderate - as if it were an instruction handed down from on high to obey and of no significance in itself (a taboo) - moderate is simply what a mature man would be.
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 22, 2006 12:33 PM
The only innovation Islam has ever had has been the amazing ability to distort reality, re-write history, confuse the Infidel masses by showing hatred, death, and mayhem towards all others and then the whole time manage to somehow claim that Islam is the ‘Religion of Peace’ with a straight face. Truly amazing.
Oh, and suicide bombers. We can’t forget that. What a great innovation!
Oh, wait …even that was originally a Japanese creation with kamikaze pilots. Sorry Islam, you lose there, too.
Posted by: illustr8rg8r at March 22, 2006 12:50 PM
Muslim inventions:
Camels (not the cigarette)
Turbans (unblocked)
Dates (not the kind with a girl)
okie dokie ... that about wraps it up.
at March 22, 2006 12:56 PM
Toilets???
I doubt it, but here's a reference from a guide to hadith...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/hadith/had32.htm
Posted by: daveconcerned at March 22, 2006 1:02 PM
Yes, toilets indeed.
All those references to Anas said this and Anas said that. My Anas only makes loud abrupt noises.
Posted by: JanuaryMan at March 22, 2006 1:13 PM
Flush toilets with indoor plumbing for water supply and waste scavenging were know in the patrician estates of Rome 500 years before ol' Mo' breathed his first breath.
Persians invented chess and when ol' Mo' came across these intellectually crafty Persions, he quickly banned the game as haram, seeing how its strategic analysis could give adversaries a decisive advantage in battle.
Then there is the Hindu Gupta's, cir. 350-450 A.D., who first postulated the planetary theory of motion, only later confirmed 1000 years later, what should be called gutabra istead of algebra, and of course the decimal number system.
Wine has been found in Etruscan ruins predating the Greeks.
For the trivial, not only did the Romans have multi-course meals, but they also invented the "supersize."
But true honors should be given to whoever invented pasta e fagioli.
Posted by: Lisa at March 22, 2006 1:35 PM
1001 Muslim inventions
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewBlogEntry&intMTEntryID=2737
The history of the tent
December 21, 2005
Did you know that the tent is the symbol of ancient Arabia? The Ottomans gave it a new impetus making it a royal structure, which was set up for ceremonial occasions and trips. The tent was adopted in Europe initially for the same function, but later was developed into roof style used in large buildings such as botanic gardens, rail stations as well as for camping.
I had no idea that Moslems invented the tent, and to think they did it thousands of years after it was first invented, is truly amazing, I cant get over their overwhelming intellectual superiority.
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewBlogEntry&intMTEntryID=2735
First bold attempt at flight
December 20, 2005
Did you know that the first really scientific attempt to fly in the Muslim World was made in the 9th century? Abul Qasim Ibn Firnas, who lived in the Spainish city of Cordoba, built a glider which was capable of carrying a human being. People from the city turned out to see the maiden flight from a mountain top. His plane carried him some distance but then it crashed and he was fatally injured.
If Daniel Bernoulli only knew....
at March 22, 2006 1:37 PM
Flushing toilets?
The Indus Valley Hindu civilization had 'em in 2500 BC:
http://www.mohenjodaro.net/latrine47.html
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 22, 2006 1:45 PM
and all John Crapper ever got credit for was the unofficial trademark.
I didn't claim the Romans invented it, only that is was in common use in patrician estates.
Posted by: Lisa at March 22, 2006 1:55 PM
That's Thomas Crapper, Lisa, though it would have been interesting if there had been a Crapper Bros. rivalry, patterned after that of the brothers Bernoulli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crapper
Posted by: Shinoliite at March 22, 2006 1:58 PM
Another innovation: The dishadasha is the original "wife beater," not that sleeveless undershirt which garnered that nickname due to its apparent popularity among perpetrators of domestic violence, as seen on cop shows and local newscasts...
Posted by: Shinoliite at March 22, 2006 2:05 PM
Well, it says:
Toilets would have been an essential feature in Mohenjo-daro, but the early excavators identified most toilets as post-cremation burial urns or sump pots.
And then unaccountably the site reverses this opinion of the "early excavators" in the final sentence.
OTOH, the sentence structure is a little odd - they may be saying that the "early excavators" thought that the structure into which they drained "might have been a toilet".
In any event, there is an extensive drainage system there - and something that looks like a baths. Not bad for 2500 BC.
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 22, 2006 2:09 PM
There are impressive remains of very early date on Malta and Gozo:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/malta/
There was obviously a highly sophisticated civilization thriving there while the Arabs were - well, doing nothing much at all.
But let's not spoil things for the anti-educational brainwashers funded by the British Government.
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 22, 2006 2:14 PM
This piece, from and Arab website, gives the honest assessment:
Today, the Arabs’ failures are noticeable everywhere: in education, in economics, in politics, in culture, in administration, in technology, in manufacturing, and in human relations. If it were not for the mercy of God and the existence of the West, the Arabs would have perished, as their life expectancy would not have exceeded thirty years. [They should thank] the West that provides them with the necessities of life: such as food, medicines, technology, as well as university training for those fortunate Arabs [who manage to enter Western universities.]
And regardless of this evident lack of progress, we find Arabs taking a stand against intellectual pursuits, civil liberties, and science. They neither control the present, nor the future; all they possess is a past that ceased to exist around five hundred years ago. In other words, they glory in a culture that is no more!
Just as a car does not move without fuel, so is the condition of human civilizations; their fuel is liberty and democracy. Arabs refuse both. But they insist on claiming that they love freedom, intellectual life, and culture; while they keep on playing a broken record that proclaims the West’s indebtedness to the Islamic civilization. This is the apex of delusion!
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/JacobThomas60321.htm
at March 22, 2006 2:24 PM
Is there a patent attorney out there? I'm going to invent the 12 course meal.
Posted by: mustang65 at March 22, 2006 2:24 PM
"and the three-course meal."
-- from the article above
Well, who invented the pre-prandial aperitif?
Posted by: Hugh at March 22, 2006 2:33 PM
OK OK OK, my dear profitsbeard, I can't stop laughing. We need a comedy corner with you and Robert moderating. I love your humor.
Posted by: Jewish Girl at March 22, 2006 2:52 PM
Ted Bell, an acknowledged Christian, also invented a very popular mixed adult drink called "The Ted". It features Ice, Coke and Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum, in a tall glass.
I was enjoying several "Ted's" last night while eating a two course dinner of Steak and French Fries, while admiring the Ted Bell Baked Potato tree at his steakhouse in Beverly Hills.
Posted by: macc at March 22, 2006 3:27 PM
In George Orwell's (his real name was Blair) novel depicting life in a totalitarian regime, '1984', the anti-hero, Winston Smith, had a job constantly rewriting history.
Posted by: Elephant at March 22, 2006 3:43 PM
When I was in the 6th grade, some 25 years ago, one of my classmates, a Muslim, told me about Neil Armstrong's conversion to Islam. The claim was that when he was on the moon, he saw the word "Allah" written in the sky, so that when he returned to earth, he recited the shahada and embraced Islam.
At that time, I had no idea who Neil Armstrong was, and didn't care. Some years later, I read a statement in a newspaper where he categorically denied it. Looking back at it today, it was a good thing that Armstrong didn't deny it in an Islamic country, or else he would have faced the same potential fate as Abdul Rahman.
The next guy who ever travels to the moon should be sure to eat some sausage, bacon and ham while he is there. How's that for a 3 course meal?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 22, 2006 3:45 PM
I can’t believe you people refuse to recognize the achievements of muslims. Without them we would have no United States. When Columbus asked his navigator (mohammad ackmed mohamid) how to get to India, he told them of the short cut. When the Spaniards asked the queens military advisor (mohamud ackbar muhammed) what should we do about all these natives, he gave them a solution (kill them). When General Sherman was bogged down and told his advisor to help him find away to Atlanta, he gave him a solution (burn everything). When President Bush asked his advisor (Karzi) what type of government should we use in Afghanistan, he gave him a solution (sharia). So you see, they have always made intelligent and well thought out plans, as long as someone or something needed to die, be punished or enslaved. Muslims invented all sorts of useful things, sticks, stones, knifes, swords, rifles, catapults, dirty bombs, nukes and they are working on a man packed, heat seeking anti infidel missile with multiple warheads and it is designed to fit into a large shipping container. Don’t tell me they are not great inventors.
Posted by: Ronin at March 22, 2006 3:58 PM
Infidel Pride
Your classmate actually had it wrong, Neil Armstrong did not see the word allah written in the sky, but heard the azzan(sp?), the call to prayer.
If he saw the word allah, was it in English or Arabic? After all, allah can ony communicate in Arabic according to all Islamic scholars. I don't beleive he would have been able to read Arabic.
The Neil Armstrong story is still prominent on many Islamic websites as one of the many scientific miracles they use to convince themselves of the trueness of Islam. Then again, how could not have heard any sound on the moon, since sound propogates as wave energy in the atmosphere, which the moon lacks.
Posted by: Lisa at March 22, 2006 3:58 PM
Lisa
At that time, it didn't strike me to ask him. But I think that it's a good guess that if I did, he would probably have told me that even if it was written in Arabic, Allah would have sent him a telepathic message about what it read.
Does snopes.com (sp?) address the origins of this myth on their website? Or is it too fanciful even for them?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 22, 2006 4:08 PM
Lisa
Well Lisa, at least not ALL Muslims are conspiracy theorizing the fact that we landed on the moon :) ! Whew!
Thank you Neil Armstrong.
at March 22, 2006 4:09 PM
Lisa .. Sorry, meant to write- " 'conspiracy theorizing away' the fact .."
Posted by: Daisytoo at March 22, 2006 4:11 PM
About Islam a bit from an article put up last November, "Yes, But What Have You Done For Us Lately?":
"For a few centuries the Islamic world served as a conduit (of Chinese papermaking, of Hindu numbers and algebra, of Greek philosophy rendered first into Syriac, then into Arabic, often by Christian or Jewish translators). There were some very minor achievements and a handful of figures, their names repeated over and over and over: Al-Rhazi, Averroes, Avicenna, Al-Farabi, and a dozen others -- compared to the tens of thousands of similar figures in the Western world, not to mention those in the civilizations of China, or those unknown creators of Inca or Mayan civilization.
Almost all of the famous figures in high Islamic civilization were either non-Muslims, or Persians whom, dare one say it, in thought as in poetry (Firdowsi, Hafez, Khayyam, Sa'adi), were just "less" Muslim than the always more primitive and more fervent Arab Muslims. In art, the Indo-Persian (or Mughal) miniatures are not the products of Islam; they are the products of people ignoring the strictures of Islam. Should we give credit to Soviet Communism for Mandelshtam, formed by pre-Soviet Russia, or for Sakharov, a dissenter from everything that the Soviet system stood for? Of course not. Why then give "Islam" credit for those who, in spite of Islam, or because they were never Muslims to begin with, did so much?
The "Golden Age" of Islamic civilization was in many ways parasitic on the Christian and Jewish host populations that had been conquered. These populations were more advanced, numerous, and rich than the conquering Muslim Arabs, and remained so for some time. And while those Christians and Jews remained culturally significant, and not only as translators and transmitters of the achievements of non-Muslim civilizations, eventually they were reduced in numbers, power and influence. In Muslim Spain, political upheavals drove out some of the most significant figures (as Maimonides was driven out by the Almohad-induced persecutions -- he escaped from Grenada to Fez, where he lived disguised as a Muslim, but the atmosphere of persecution in Fez led him to Cairo, where he worked as a physician for the Fatimid rulers).
In any case, whatever was "great" about Islamic civilization, despite the exaggeration, came to a close about a thousand years ago, about when Christians and Jews ceased to be an important factor, and when, within Islam, whatever freedoms an ar-Rhazi or ibn Rushd was permitted came to an end, because those mental "gates of ijtihad" were closed.
That is how the "Islamic civilization" came to an end -- never to be reborn. For Islam inhibits artistic expression and scientific inquiry. It stunts the mental growth. That, above all. For a thousand years, since that brief period (about 200 years) of what some call the "Golden Age" of Islam, there has been very little of permanent scientific or other worth to be mentioned in the same breath with what was achieved in the West. Ravenna alone contains more art treasures than the entire Muslim world produced in its entire history.
Why do we keep forgetting this? Why do we pretend that "Islamic civilization," which began in the 9th century (and Islam itself probably did not begin until the 8th), and was simply the result of the conquest of non-Muslim peoples who were not converted or killed at once, but subject as dhimmis to slow asphyxiation, was such a splendid thing? Why do many make exaggerated claims, as if they must keep constantly in mind the remarkable self-esteem problems of present-day Muslims, who must always have their own hypertrophied sense of Muslim achievements -- even those from a thousand years ago -- confirmed?
One of these is Lewis, who offers formulaic praise to high Islamic civilization and continues to compare Europe in the Dark Ages with the Islamic civilization that was the "richest, most advanced, most..." in the world. Now that statement can only be made by someone familiar not only with "Islamic" civilization (and with the fact that many of those who were responsible for important parts of that civilization were Christians and Jews), but also with rival civilizations on which judgment is implicitly being passed -- such as China and Europe. Leave aside the gigantic and ancient civilization of China. In the study of Europe, the past fifty years of historical research have overturned, ended, put paid to, the idea of "Dark Ages." Intellectual and artistic activity that was either not sufficiently recognized, or demeaned by historians in the past (some Protestant historians in Germany, England, and the United States found suspect the dominant role of Catholicism during those non-existent "Dark Ages") has been discovered, unearthed, appreciated. But Lewis and those who like his phrase about "in the year 1000 A.D. Islamic civilization was the most advanced, most assured, most...etc." appear to have ignored the revolution in the history of those "Dark Ages." See, for a short summary, Regine Pernoud's Those Terrible Middle Ages!
But if Professor Lewis really does have such a view of Islamic achievement long ago, then perhaps none of us should really worry about the islamization of Europe. After all, if that was possible once, surely we should listen to the Da'wa of Tariq Ramadan, who believes that the future of Islam lies in Europe (and possibly America, though after his visa refusal that may have to wait a bit).
Another Muslim claim that has infiltrated into Western educational systems, and into the general (uninformed) consciousness, is that Europe itself owes "so much" to Islam. This is nonsense on stilts. Islam was at war with Christendom from Islam's inception. Its only legitimate relation to Christendom was that of enemy and conqueror. Christians could be left alive, but only in an inferior position, with all of their "rights" granted by Muslim overlords, and only so long as the Christians obeyed certain onerous financial, social, and other burdens. That was it. How did "Islamic civilization" contribute? It did not contribute to the development of Western art and music. Its scientific contributions were, outside of optics and some parts of medicine, nearly invisible.
And even if we were to participate in the exaggerated claims made for things which took place a thousand years ago, one question remains:
What have you done for civilization lately?
On the civilizational resume of Islam, there is roughly a thousand-year blank.
"1000-2000 A.D. Painted Mughal miniatures, built some mosques in Constantinople, quarried the stone from tens of thousands of destroyed churches and Hindu temples for Muslim structures."
No serious science for the past thousand years, no music, no sculpture, no paintings save for some un-Islamic Indo-Persian miniatures, no philosophy outside the limits of an 8th-century text composed in part of pagan Arab lore, and stories from both the Hebrew and Christian texts, imperfectly recalled-- well, that just won't do. Islam just doesn't get the job as Permanent Solution for All Mankind.
Sorry."
Posted by: Hugh
at March 22, 2006 4:11 PM
If he saw the word allah, was it in English or Arabic?
It was written in ice cream.
Of course, ice cream was invented by a Jewish firm.
Walls of Jericho.
I think it was Neil Armstrong, if not it was one of the other (very few) men to set foot on the moon, who I once read his description of how he received Holy Communion on the moon. His parish priest, (episcopalian I think) celebrated communion and gave him the wafer and wine which went into one of the sealed containers used for space catering, on the same principle that communion will be taken to the housebound. So that astronaut was able to partake on the surface of the moon.
at March 22, 2006 4:15 PM
Yeah, right. Some Mahometan guy is "said to have invented" the three-course meal.
Becomes "the three-course meal was invented by such-and-such a Mahometan."
Becomes "Mahometans invented the three-course meal."
Becomes "without the Mahometans, we would be limited to one or two courses per meal."
Becomes "see how much we owe this wonderful religion?"
One might as well credit Christianity with the pizza and the sandwich.
Posted by: Cato the Elder at March 22, 2006 4:20 PM
It was written in ice cream.
Was it the Burger King swirl?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 22, 2006 4:28 PM
One might as well credit Christianity with the pizza and the sandwich.
THANK YOU,Christianity.I love me some Pizza
at March 22, 2006 4:31 PM
"In any case, whatever was "great" about Islamic civilization, despite the exaggeration, came to a close about a thousand years ago, about when Christians and Jews ceased to be an important factor,.."
Precisely and Exactly. Thank you Hugh.
Posted by: Daisytoo at March 22, 2006 4:36 PM
Fjordman has an interesting post over at LGF.
It seems the Algerian government is getting nervous about conversions to Christianity and is clamping down on apostasy. There's been a few - some people have taken a good look at what the death-cult has done to the society they live in and decided they want no more of it.
He gives two links:
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060321/2006032108.html
http://www.meforum.org/article/104
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 22, 2006 4:49 PM
profitsbeard:
I am afraid you are wrong in your history of Einstein's famous equation. Many years ago the great Gary Larson (a Muslim revert I might add) published a cartoon (Allah have mercy on him) where the Jew Einstein was working away in his lab unsuccessfully. He was writing nonsense like E=mc, E=mc3, E=mc4 when his Muslim janitor (PBUH) finished cleaning the lab. The janitor told Einstein that everything was SQUARED away, yes all SQUARED away. The cursed Einstein stole that idea.
Posted by: johnb at March 22, 2006 5:05 PM
It is not that i am anti arab..
But I am now awaiting for the announcement that
A. All Modern computers were invented by muslims since mohammed was struck by lightning 1300 years ago while holding up a sword in a storm.
B. All modern cars were invented by muslims since mohammed dropped a dish out of a moving ox cart and saw it roll down the hill (also it crashed) so islam invented the air bag system.
C. All modern aircraft were Obviouslyu invented by muslims since mohammed took his famous midnight flight to jerusalem...
Also by proxy Since it was a night flight
IOslam was responsible for
Night Vision goggles
Radar
De-icing equipment
Landing lights
the light buld (see above)...
Seatebelts
Compressed cabins
the lavitory
Toilet paper (see above)
So the entire world should be thanking islam for all of the above inventions..
tin foil time folks
Posted by: jingoist at March 22, 2006 5:12 PM
Cultural vandals before ascendancy.
These creature's claims should be ignored. Attention only encourages them.
Posted by: zhu97 at March 22, 2006 5:46 PM
Totally OT
"Ted Bell (American steakhouse owner) claims he invented the foil wrapped baked potato"
----
Ted Bell, an acknowledged Christian, also invented a very popular mixed adult drink called "The Ted". It features Ice, Coke and Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum, in a tall glass.
I was enjoying several "Ted's" last night while eating a two course dinner of Steak and French Fries, while admiring the Ted Bell Baked Potato tree at his steakhouse in Beverly Hills.
Ted Bell is a made up character by Phil Hendrie, radio performer/host and voice artist. Hendrie’s character Ted is a pompous bastard who is endlessly smug about his inventions and how high class is his restaurant “Ted’s of Beverly Hills.”
http://www.philhendrieshow.com/home.html
More Ted Bell bit premises”
http://www.philhendrieshow.com/guests.html?action=view&id=34
More on Phil Hendrie”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Hendrie
at March 22, 2006 5:54 PM
Its not only inventions they claim but certain aspects of culture. I am tired of coming across certain liberals who when they come across things that are similar between muslims countries and their non muslim neighbours automatically assume that the non muslims stole from the muslims. An example I always here that Greek food and other cuisines of the Balkan are really Turkish. Why do they assume that when evidence shows the opposite. The same with music. There is no music allowed in Islam. My suspician is that the similarity of the music in the mid east and balkans is do to the Christians in the mideast and balkans sharing a similar culutre before the muslims got there. Also food and music isnt something that is owned it is shared one group will add something and make it their own yet it is only the muslims who are militant about demanding that it is recognized as being theirs only. I have heard baklave to be turkish yet the origin goes back to a sweet dough with nuts the assyrian ate(assyrians christians of the mideast) the greeks added teh filo pastry. And the syrup probably came from the Iranians. The Iranians had rich culture until the muslims ruined it. Also most arab music is known to be greek/persian in origin. Pre Islamic Arabic music is supposed to sound totally different.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at March 22, 2006 5:58 PM
Johnb: Gary Larson?!
Wikipedia has him cross-listed under "Lutherans." I'd have thought the legions of Islamphiles that seem to hang out there would have plastered his profile with any news of his "reversion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Larson
And, apparently, this cartoon originated from his pen at some point:
http://democracyfrontline.org/blog/wp-content/files/Muhammadmountain1.jpg
... which brings up another tune to apologize for: "They Can't Take That Away From Me."
Posted by: Shinoliite at March 22, 2006 6:40 PM
Shinoliite:
Re: Gary Larson's reversion - just a little humour on my part. I very much remember the cartoon though. It remains one of my favourites.
Posted by: johnb at March 22, 2006 6:51 PM
Johnb-- Ah, I get it now. I'm a little dense for lack of sleep, I guess. But...
Whew! What a relief! :o
Posted by: Shinoliite at March 22, 2006 7:00 PM
"An example I always here [sic] that Greek food and other cuisines of the Balkan are really Turkish."
-- from a posting above, noting that Muslims are given credit for things which they took from pre-Islamic or non-Islamic sources
There is one thing that definitely came from Turkey, and borrowed by the Greeks. And that was the particular torture of the bastinado, or falacca, during which the bottoms of a prisoner's feet are hit with, say, an iron rod, and the exruciating pain travels upward (or if you are strung upside-down, downard) all the way along the central nervous system to the head. A torture used in the Ottoman-ruled territories by the Muslims for 400 years. In "L'Apocalisse" Fallaci mentions how, during the time of the colonels, her lover, the Greek political prisoner Panagoulis, had to endure the bastinado. He limped for the rest of his life; he told her that it was the most horrible pain. As a way of extracting confessions, it had been a gift from the Muslims of the Ottoman Empire, left behind for those who wished to emulate them, in Greece and elsewhere.
Posted by: Hugh at March 22, 2006 7:32 PM
my take on the islamic golden age is that both europe and the arab world were about to embark on a period of cultural advance around 800AD (in europe there was the stillborn so called carolingian rennaissance) but that 200 centuries of incursions by the vikings and magyars as well as muslim pressure from the south (and the break up of charlemagne's empire) deprived europe of the relatively stable, prosperous conditions needed for ongoing intellectual advance. As soon as the europeans became settled and rich enough to resume cultural development, around 1100, their scholars set about systematically translating arab scientific works, eager to catch up. The arabs, for their part, owed and immeasureable debt to the greeks, hindus, chinese and Zoroastrian persians. Modern western civilisation has many sources and its typical of islam to claim that it was the unique and vital contributor - it also gives some writers such as ziauddin sardar a chance to gloat about moslems living in paved cities with baths and libraries while the europeans were living in mud huts (timber-framed structures would be the more accurate description). The moslems are obliged to the europeans for picking up the ball at almost precisely the moment that they dropped it (muslim scientific research peaked about 1000 and had virtually run its course by 1100). If the muslim belief that their scientific sophistication was the product of the islamic religion then the europeans were doing a profound service to human progress between 800 and 1100 - they kept that religion out of their continent and therefore avoided suffering from whatever malaise it was that brought muslim intellectual advance to a halt later.
Posted by: wallyUK at March 22, 2006 7:46 PM
Just wondering: how many exhibits of Infidel inventions have their been in Muslim countries?
Posted by: perpster at March 22, 2006 8:16 PM
Just wondering: how many exhibits of Infidel inventions have there been in Muslim countries?
Posted by: perpster at March 22, 2006 8:17 PM
Baked potatos and beans? Invented by desert dwelling Islamists? Oh , Come on...There is a limit to 'Gassing'.
But one great Islamic invention,no one can deny: Pork pot-roast,with wine gravy.
at March 22, 2006 8:24 PM
My favorite part of that article is the penultimate paragraph:
"Islam needs to take its place alongside other historic groups, such as the ancient Romans and Greeks," he said.
And the sooner it leaves the realm of current events for the historic realm the better!
Pangloss
at March 22, 2006 8:26 PM
You will have to agree, the thing that Muslims did invent is the trade of the "assasin."
If Islam does conquer the world, look for the return back to the stone ages. Maybe this why the liberals are so keen on Islam, no cars, no pollution, no nothing, no pollutions.
Posted by: FIVEOFNINE at March 22, 2006 8:56 PM
The only way that Muslims discovered the "baked potato" was after they decided to burn some poor Spaniard's house down then realised that they were a little peckish afterwards and found said "baked potatoto" in the ruins of his house, and it was good. Please no smart comment about timing, as if it is okay for the Muslims then it is okay for me.
I think that Robert Spencer is far too kind to the Muslims: such a stifling relgion as islam can effectively sterilise people re creativity.
There had to be some creative Muslims, although we haven't seen much of them for a few centuries(does the TNT belt suffice?), but most of these spent their time in showing how perfect Muhammad was and how his dark age laws could be expressed best. Very few showed both the courage and the initiative to produce something new and useful as it nmay have been regarded as nonKoranic(eg the guillotine) and hence heretical with all that that implies.
Thank heaven that they are so sterile as if they cannot buy it or steal it they will never be able to use it and it could be the realisation of this which one day sinks them
Posted by: Zathras at March 22, 2006 9:51 PM
Nothing as oppressive and stifling as Islam could ever foster innovativeness--except how to slaughter the masses of infidels that they believed threatened their existence (or maybe to invent ways to escape from it).
*
Babylon likely is the real source of Islam. And it is quite possible that the Babylonians, and not the Muslims, contributed real if not major inventions to the world. That is, in addition, to their having contributed human sacrifice to the world (and the Babylonians may have been the first to introduce THAT to mankind as well).
Posted by: pythagoras at March 22, 2006 10:04 PM
johnb-
Larson couldn't tell the true story of E=mc2 (changing its protagonist from a noble gardener to a lowly janitor, hah!), being an accursed cartoonist himself!
And we all know what cartoonists are capable of!
*~@:~{>
I want to see Larson come out of retirement to draw one more image:
Melon Collie Danes.
(Lassie crossbred with a seedless in Copenhagen?)
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 22, 2006 11:10 PM
Jewish Girl-
Here's one of the most scientific parts of the Koran, showing the roots of Muslim inventiveness:
SURA 69- "The Rotten Meat"
Lo! Allah told his prophet that rotten meat creates new life. Yea, this process can be seen in experience as when houseflies surely appear from the corpses of slain foes. Thus, the servant of the Creator understood that the faith would grow upon death.
The more rotten meat, the greater the religion would become.
Beginning with the head.
And it was so.
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 22, 2006 11:28 PM
How does one invent anything if they aren't allowed to think outside of the koran?
They don't. Great question, though. Hell, the greatest moron in world history, Mohammed (pbuh), couln't even event his own religon. He went about ripping off from the Old and the New Testaments (i.e., the Jews and the Christians).
But the amply established fact that Mohammed was a dumbass is not in question. Hell, Abu Afak had that figured out, until he was gutted by a fervent Moslem on Mohammed's orders.
The key to this whole mess is that Moslems --- by accepting the laughably ridiculous and murderous precepts of their "relgion's" oh most holy and sacre scriptures --- consign themselves to the absence of critical thought and an intolerence to criticsm, thereby.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 22, 2006 11:40 PM
Hugh good point I got a chuckle Muslims have been very inventive when it comes to torture and suffering. If ther was a nobel prize for the category of suffering, rape, and pillage a muslim would win hands down each year. I guess it must be a zionist conspiracy to keep muslims from winning nobel prizes by picking jew dominated topics like science and medicine. Lets stop this discrimination and bring in the more important topics that bring suffering to so many people. Of course I am not serious
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at March 23, 2006 12:00 AM
@cruzado
I beg to differ about tiles, if you come to Sofia, Bulgaria, you can see plenty of them in the uncovered Roman baths.
@jingoist
Ironically, Muslims can claim that the computer was invented due to them! The father of John Atanasoff (who invented the first ABC digital computer in 1939) escaped from Bulgaria to the USA in order to avoid being slaughtered by the Ottomans.
at March 23, 2006 12:11 AM
I think I mentioned it in a previous topic but Muslims can claim a lot of surgical inventions: chirectomy (cutting a thief's hand off), clitorectomy etc.
Posted by: highbg at March 23, 2006 12:13 AM
"Pretend that these things have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, tell everyone how we brought algebra to 9th Century Spain."
LOL, when I grew up in Germany, a primary school teacher told us that 'Hitler wasn't really so bad - he built the autobahns!!'
at March 23, 2006 2:51 AM
Nobody has mentioned yet that there have been environmentally sustainable and largely unchanging cultures that did not create many of what one would call inventions in the western sense, nor do they pretend that they have.
And there is nothing wrong with that. So why do certain people have such trouble just admitting that inventing things in the western sense wasn't their cup of tea?
Perhaps because they want to be superior in every way...
Posted by: Lili at March 23, 2006 3:18 AM
profitsbeard
Does this sound familiar?
If a house fly falls into the drink of anyone, then one should dip it in the drink because one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease
http://www.faithfreedom.org/comics/13.htm
(My apologies to any reader who might happen to be eating or drinking while reading this. But that's for another thread in D/W. Oh no, those apologies are for Muslims. Oh, well...)
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 23, 2006 4:02 AM
What this exhibion really says is how insecure moslems feel about their achievements, how weak and vulnerable they feel, and how ready they are to resort to empty blustering and boasting. Basically, it's not cool.
Posted by: Dr. Pangloss at March 23, 2006 4:39 AM
The fact is that behind many of the so-called great minds of the West -- Einstein, Newton, Kant, and Hegel, for example -- was one or another truly great canine thinker. The real outrage is how little credit is given to our furry friends, some very gifted specimens of whom have been behind brilliant works like Kant's Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics. A certain passage in the latter, concerning the question of whether dogs in heaven urinate on heavenly trees, is only comprehensible when one realizes who provided the real intellectual firepower behind all of Kant's work. On his own, Kant couldn't bite his way out of a paper bag. We often hear that Kant was so punctual about his daily walks through Konigsberg that people set their watches by him. But it is rarely mentioned that he always walked with a certain unleashed dog, nor is it asked by you humans how it was that the dog in question managed such precision in defecation and urination as to permit Kant to be exactly on time each day.
But a distinction does need to be made between non-Muslim and Muslim dogs. A little honest research and sniffing around shows that dogs, once they bark the shahada, produce relatively little in the way of culture, and what they have produced has mostly come by way of Jewish and Christian canine translators. Dogs who believe in Hinduism, Christianity, atheism, and especially in Judaism (it is no accident that Jewish humans produce such a disproportionate number of Nobel prizes -- just look at the dogs they buy!! They rarely get the dumb blondes of dogdom, you know, those golden retrievers and labradors who never worry their pretty little heads about anything) -- ruf, er, as I was saying, all the non-Muslim dogs have been responsible for everything from 747s to the electric light, though you'd never know it from you tendentious mainstream human historians. Some will say that I am probably just a member of the canine species myself, and am hopelessly biased. Not so. At least throw me the bone of considering my view on the merits. It shouldn't matter whether I'm a dog or a person. And by the way, I've always really resented Gary Larson since he did this cartoon:
http://amybrennan.blogs.com/Ginger.jpg
As if we dogs -- I mean those dogs -- were all morons! Pure speciesism!! Grrrr!
at March 23, 2006 6:15 AM
It’s not at all difficult to draw up long lists of achievements for almost any place or any group of people in the world. It just needs the kind of spin that the tourism industry and local history museums have been employing for years. You start and the top, ‘Einstein was born and raised here’, ‘Newton studied here’, ‘Galileo lived and worked here’, then work your way down. The further you descend the more you exaggerate the person’s contribution until you end up with something like “John Smith, whose pioneering research many believe to have paved the way for the invention of the bunsen burner, without which modern chemistry would not exist, was a pupil at this school” (omitting to mention that he only attended the school for 6 months); and so on …
Posted by: Harold Hat at March 23, 2006 7:02 AM
When I think about what Islam might have done all those years ago for humanity, it always springs to mind ->
"What-Have-You-Done-For-Me-Lately"
In this modern world these people spend half their time looking back.
I was told one by a proud member of the Islamic community that they invented the number zero.
Which would account for the number of inventions - that those in Islam have put forth lately "0".
Will someone knock on Islam's door and tell them that - 'the time is NOW'!
at March 23, 2006 7:15 AM
Muslims were first in space, and are still there.
During the moon landing of Apollo 11, Armstrong radioed to NASA that there were other craft there that were watching...they were muslims. Armstrong knew this when he read the word Allah on the side of the craft. Muslims were the first to the moon and established bases there. They developed space travel based on Mohammads method of flying to Jerusalem that fateful night.
These muslims have been in space so long, that other Earthly muslims have forgotten about them.
All UFO activity is muslim. Little grey men are just muslims in space suits...You have heard of 'flying triangles'? Saw one myself...said 'Allah' right on the side of it.
Yes friends, muslims are in space. Those muslims are 'high guys'to say the least...the rest of the Earth-bound ummah are spaced out, so to speak. I think thats just what is needed...Muslim space colonys...lots of them...way the heck up there. Not exactly Allahs paradise, but close enough for government work.
When infidels examine the ruins on Mars, they will find that most of the structures were mosques. If they find any writings they will be fragments of Quran in Arabic. Thats good enough for me...Muslims were the first 'space crusaders'...Capt Kirk was fighting them all the time...they were refered to in the series as 'Klingons'...you know, the 'kling-ons'...
'Klinging on'...The invisible, and secret, seventh pillar of Islam is space flight.
This is why Allah is the 'moon' god...when man looks closely at the dark side of the moon, they will find Allahs paradise. There's a lot going on there, and guess what, it's muslims all over the place...you wont find one infidel on the dark side of the moon, but there are lots of retired jihadists...now you know the 'rest' of the story...sound 'far fetched'? Maybe, but you will change your mind when fragments of the Quran are found on Mars...
Posted by: duh_swami
at March 23, 2006 7:18 AM
Also...Mohammad did invent praying five times a day...He originally said fifty, but praying fifty times a day, leaves no time for fighting, looting, murdering and capturing and raping slave girls. So he reduced it to five in order to free up the time to do important stuff. Nine year old girls need attentive husbands...got to cut down on all that praying stuff...Aisha is waiting...
Posted by: duh_swami at March 23, 2006 7:29 AM
And let us no forget Mohammed's personal contribution to the medical science, the Universal Medicine (as documented in “Hadith”): CAMEL URINE.
"The prophet ordered them to follow his camels, and drink their milk and urine, so they followed the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy." Vol. 7:590
Posted by: petegood at March 23, 2006 7:47 AM
by accepting the laughably ridiculous and murderous precepts of their "relgion's" oh most holy and sacre scriptures --- consign themselves to the absence of critical thought and an intolerence to criticsm, thereby.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer
Can this be used to explain the affinity that today's left-wing academics seem to have for Islam?
Posted by: Cynic at March 23, 2006 7:56 AM
wallyUK, you are correct except for one thing: the growth of philosophy and other learning in the West was on its way independently of Muslim learning. Apart from the strange episode of John Scotus Eriugena, the first great original philosopher in the West, for instance, was Anselm of Canterbury (to the English) or Aosta (to the Italians), who owed nothing whatsoever to Muslim learning (and opposed the First Crusade). He, in turn, was the result of a steady growth in learning that was already visibly on its way a century before, when Gerbert of Aurillac was made Pope as Sylvester II, a name that stood for renewal (Pope Sylvester I was the one who had witnessed the Christianization of the Roman Empire under Constantine I). The first true University, that of Bologna, was established in 1091, at the same time. It was not until over a century later, when the Castilian conquest of Toledo made a great number of Muslim manuscripts available to Spanish translators, that the great Western interest in Arabic and Greek learning began. Even so, it would not have worked without the existence of the learned Dominican order, established on purpose to argue the Catholic corner and preach to Christian dissidents, whose members translated newly found manuscripts not only from Arabic but from Greek as well, to fuel the genius of the Dominican professors Albert the Great and Thomas Aquinas. In other words, the energies already alive and unleashed in the Christian world, quite autonomously from Islam, seized on what they found in Toledo and made use of it in exactly the same way as they did with the manuscripts that were coming in increasing amounts from the former Byzantine Empire (conquered by Western crusaders in 1204) and being increasingly discovered in their own monasteries.
Incidentally, bookstores were active in Roman cities. One is mentioned by name, giving the address, by the poet Martial, 600 years before Islam.
Posted by: Paolo at March 23, 2006 7:57 AM
First, let's not forget the Chinese who are supposed to have invented block printing and gunpowder [hence rockets], and some say that they invented noodles, etc.
Second, let's take the Arabs/Muslims at face value. They and their Western apologists say that their ancestors had a flourishing civilization in the Middle Ages. Let's grant that for argument's sake and get to the next question. What happened to that high culture of theirs? Ibn Khaldun died in 1406. Whom have they had since he died? Which original, creative and constructive mind since 1406 was a Muslim? Where did that high culture go? Whom are they going to blame for their own failures, obscurantism, and so on?
Posted by: Eliyahu at March 23, 2006 9:38 AM
This fake history is only a natural follow-on to the overarching Fictive Reality that Islam is a religion, that Islam is a religion of peace, that Unicorns exist, and other awesome stuff like that.
Hey, if you're gonna swallow a load of bullcrap down your gullet, then that highway is opened for business, and deserves all the traffic it can take down the throat.
After all, our ruling elites have newspapers and TV segments to fill, university curricula to build out, and government policies to implement.
The prevailing Fictive Reality is closing around us. Next, we'll have Algerian Astronauts orbiting the Earth in 1961, call them the Astral Allahus.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 23, 2006 12:29 PM
There is scant reason to suppose that the Muslims ever invented ANYTHING except perhaps new ways of killing or torturing or otherwise making fellow human beings 100% MISERABLE.
Virtually everything Muslims claim to have invented on their own (at least anything of intrinsic value to humanity) in reality came from elsewhere. That trend continues into the present unabated and unabashedly.
We have only Muslims' word that they were inventors. Well so what?? Because we are non-Muslims Muslims are under no obligation to tell us the truth about anything. In fact, owing to the Taqiyya directives in the Kuran, Muslims are more or less forbidden to tell us the truth. Thus whatever they tell us can and should be automatically WRITTEN OFF!
There were reports during the Middle Ages that Islamic societies were in many way ahead of the western world. This is because Muslims overran at least eight major civilizations, sacked them and then detroyed them. What the Muslims stole is what was palmed off as theirs. This includes the 'zero' which the Hindus had in use long before old career criminal Muhammed arrived on the 6th century scene to stir up the pot. By the way, when Islam ran out of civilizations to loot it started to implode. You'll note the Muslims have NEVER managed to innovate their way out of their own self-induced decline. And this supports the view that Islam is unable to produce inventors, innovaters, etc. Freeze the human mind as the Kuran DOES and you freeze everything that goes with it. Like creativity, inventiveness, innovativeness.
The Arabian peninsula once was a territorial possession of Babylon. What has been said about Islam applies to the Arabs in general as well. Anything the Arabs claim as their inventions almost certainly emanated from the Babylonians. There is little reason to believe otherwise.
Posted by: pythagoras at 
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