um... interpretations, please. is this simply a political statement? i'd guess it's an honest perception. might help lead to a tory win... 2009, is it? bye bye, blair?

Posted by: StillBreathing at March 24, 2006 4:09 PM

When I hear Tony Blair or George W. Bush spout this sort of nonsense I always translate it as an acknowledgement that "*gulp* Houston, we have a problem." Nobody suspects that they mean the grovelling platitudes about "the great faith," right? It can only be seen as trying to placate the demon, vainly hoping that it won't devour us. *That* is truly scary.

Posted by: anti-uffe at March 24, 2006 4:11 PM

Please excuse me if I feel like throwing up!

Posted by: Razdan at March 24, 2006 4:11 PM

The standard bearers of tolerance were far more likely to be found in Moslem lands....
Wow, Tony, What happened?!

Posted by: MP at March 24, 2006 4:12 PM

Improved the Status of Women?

7th Century A.D.
Hmm, in the Christian Byzantine Empire, monogamy was the rule. Men and women married and became one and no divorce was permitted.

Move to Mohammedville
Men are told they are favored over women, they can have four wives, they can beat their wives, they can sexually exploit any slave girl in their household and they can divorce at any time for any reason, keeping a rotating stable of women around the house. Sure, this is a step forward for women.

Posted by: Athena at March 24, 2006 4:14 PM

Tony's timing is off: I checked my calendar and it's not April 1st yet!

Posted by: Jen at March 24, 2006 4:18 PM

There's no excuse for this sort of idiocy in the Internet Age. If Blair's lying, he should know he can't get away with it in the Internet Age.

Progressive thought in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries was decidedly un-progressive.

I'd like to think Blair was misquoted this makes me so angry.

Posted by: Beagle at March 24, 2006 4:23 PM

Tony Blair is one sickening and mortally dangerous dude. He takes stupidity to soaring new heights, because he looks great and sounds smart when he talks. At least our President looks like Alfred E. Newman and talks like a hillbilly.

MORE MOS MORE TONY BLAIRS MORE MOSLEMS SENDING UP FLARES NO PLOWSHARES

The most remarkable thing about reading the Koran – in so far as it can be truly translated from the original Arabic - is to understand how progressive it is.

Not only is he oblivious to the grave situation we’re in, he’s entirely ignorant of translational linguistics.

WHERE ARE MY MOSLEMS I WANT MO MOSLEMS NOW WHERE IS MY MONEY GIMME MO

Here’s what Tony Blair finds progressive about equality of the sexes:

Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.
--- God’s commandment in Koran 4:11

Here’s what Tony endorses about racism:

Allah’s Apostle said, “You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.”
--- Mohammed’s commandment in Bukhari hadith V9B89N256

And here’s what Tony regards as progressive on religious freedom:

The Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.”
--- Mohammed’s commandment in Bukhari hadith V4B52N260

This is just a sampler. I could go on for several thousand more quotes, but you get the jist. Tony is full of crap and should shut his pie-hole on matters of great ignorance to him.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 24, 2006 4:23 PM

It's really quite understandable, the remarks he made. While laying in bed last night with Cherie, he teased her about losing the headscarf case. Cherie grabbed his gonies in a vise grip, her nails sinking in like talons, and said "tomorrow, in your speech, you say Islam is religion of tolerance or you wont have these anymore." A high-pitched squeaky "yes, dear" followed in reply.

Posted by: Lisa at March 24, 2006 4:24 PM

Can Blair have done this? Can he be at this level? Is this not a fabrication?

I want to know.

Posted by: Hugh at March 24, 2006 4:25 PM

If the Koran is so progressive, why are its followers so backwards? Maybe Mr. Blair can answer that one.

Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at March 24, 2006 4:26 PM

The Qur'an is the bandits' code devised by Mohammed. It was indeed progressive compared to the anarchy that ruled in the Arabian peninsula.

The claims that the Qur'an sets the Jewish and Christain scriptures right, however, are silly. What kind of book is called the guide for all humanity, yet then supposedly can't be translated accurately enough to be critically discussed?

The Qur'an maintains more credibility when it sticks to describing how the swag is to be divided

Posted by: Chatillon at March 24, 2006 4:30 PM

Now do you see why some of us loathe Tony Blair? Or the Tory Blur, as I prefer to call him. Just read Melanie Phillips on the bastard, and bear in mind that she, as a Jew, does at least not have to put up with his fraudulent pretensions at a Christian surface. Pictures of him going to Mass and meeting the Pope make me want to vomit.

Posted by: Paolo at March 24, 2006 4:33 PM

Why should this surprise any of you? Advisors to Blair and Bush for that matter come from the finest universities in the world. With high level studies come higher level thinking. The educated elitists have seldom followed the common man’s way of viewing historical, political or financial problems. I don’t know who they are in Blair’s case but I’m sure his advisors middle initials are “PC”. I am sure he has the best muslim apologist money can buy to advice and direct him in all matters islam. If he dropped by any pup in marry ol England his advice would probably be different than what he gets from whichever PC PHD he now pays. In President Bush’s case, stop by any town where the steal mills, textile mills, lumber yards have closed, ask around for Joe Common man, he would be glad to give you a few tips on foreign relations. They might even be able to explain life’s biggest mystery to you: why mosques are always located within a few miles of Walmart. I have my own theory on that one but I shop Walmart so I’ll keep it to myself.

Posted by: Ronin at March 24, 2006 4:35 PM

Impeach Blair.

Posted by: igor at March 24, 2006 4:37 PM

Why not tell the esteemed and obviously well read Mr. Blair what you think? Use this form to contact him.

SEYMOUR PAINE (PBUM)(Peace be unto me)
Prophet
Atheist
Homosexual
Raconteur

Posted by: Seymour Paine at March 24, 2006 4:37 PM

Britishers - get rid of this man and replace the government which supports him.

We have a while before elections in the United States, but we'll need to clean our own house before we can clean the House of Submission.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at March 24, 2006 4:41 PM

He's right..........at least the title

The Qur’an "is practical and way ahead of its time". In a position of power: how easy to subjugate the masses, mobilise them for the cause and ostensibly get rid of internal opponents using a variety of practical methods; mainly causing death using barbarity.

I read the rest and have had to hit the bottle. My sincerest apologies for suporting the labour party in 1997 and letting this idiot grease the wheels.

The interesting part of the speech might have come when he got beyond the middle ages and his rambling shite of preamble; but we couldn't expect the muslim weekly to tell the full story.

Posted by: muckyundercarriage at March 24, 2006 4:41 PM

That's all taqiyya quips that have been spread around to all the politicians. 'Bullet notes' provided by Muslim organizations to Bush's and Blair's staff, especially the ones working on 'the message.' Blair hasn't read the Koran. It is appalling. I knew he was as ignorant of Islam as Bush, but I think he is taking the lead in that contest. Our political leaders must live in a cocoon fed by their supplicant 'experts' on Islam; they themselves so obsessed with multiculturalism and seeking advice from Muslim groups. It is very disappointing.

Posted by: John Sobieski at March 24, 2006 4:45 PM

I sent him the following message:

If you were accurately quoted in the Muslim Weekly (http://www.themuslimweekly.com/fullstoryview.aspx?NewsID=2E55BC69EA7A593A9AEB68F6&MENUID=&DESCRIPTION=Search%20result) then you couldn't be further wrong. The Koran is an extremely cruel and violent document, written by a child molester (9-year-old "wife") and mass murderer. It is a mushy amalgam of Arab paganism and Judaism with some silly nods to Christianity; it is filled with Jew and Christian hatred; replete with admonitions to kill by various horrible methods; and vile bigotry, all eagerly practiced by its followers. It is sad to read statements like yours designed to suck up to a community that hates you. Sad and embarrassing.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at March 24, 2006 4:47 PM

Islam is inclusive????????

Then why does CAIR and their ilk constantly identify their plight as related to "Racism"
as if Muslims are a special RACE of people suffering for Islamophobia.

I've read about Muhammed on Middle East sites and I assume they're more accurate than our Western " Sanatized " versions of him, and Muhammed is claimed to have said that Slavery by White in Africa is insulting to Allah and Muslims must be their "Master's" to assure proper treatment under the protection of Islamic practises for owning slaves.
So Muhammed wasn't against Slavery eh , just when it was non dark-skinned people owning them , boy....this really makes a good selling point for converting to Islam and an interesting Tourism Promo catalog for Africa.

Posted by: ala-sux at March 24, 2006 4:47 PM

I googled around for another source for this speech and I found it here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1736040,00.html

It is reported very differently for a western audience. Seems this Muslim publication picked up on the words that rang in their ears.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 24, 2006 4:55 PM

Lisa
There is many a true word spoken in jest.
I believe your assessment to be the correct one, in principle, if not in detail.
Cheire - la eminence grisette.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at March 24, 2006 4:56 PM

Has Blair finally lost what was left of his mind? This is so outlandish and false. Muhammad was the ultimate bigot, making his sheep wear beards so that he could tell them apart from the pagans.

He was also a coward, lagging behind his brainwashed warriors as he sent them off into battle while he hid behind the biggest rock he could find sucking his thumb.

Blair is a fool.

Posted by: DCWatson at March 24, 2006 5:01 PM

mmmmmmm...I think he read a different koran. That's not like the one I've been reading.

Posted by: freewoman at March 24, 2006 5:17 PM

Tony Blair has completly " Lost it ".

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 24, 2006 5:22 PM

The Holy Bible Mr. Blair; in truth, is the real book ahead of its time. Plus it is the number one all time best seller.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 24, 2006 5:24 PM

Tony Blair is a pathetic, sniveling, excuse for a man. Now you see who is behind all these ridiculous speeches that Prince Charles is given to deliver in Muslim occupied lands.

Remember, it was Tony Blair who, along with Slick Willie Clinton, bombed Christian Serbia and forced the islamic destruction of Kosovo. Both of them, along with Mad Albright, "General" Clark etc. ought to be tried and executed as the war criminals they are. One day, these petty anti-Christs will look up from Hell and see those they've persecuted, like Slobodon Milosevic, looking down on them.

Posted by: Provoslavni at March 24, 2006 5:52 PM

Now now, let's give Blari a chance. So let's have a look see at the enlightened face of Mohammed, and the Koran, and reexamine ourselves: perhaps we're missing something...

THE KORAN; WHAT DOES IT SAY?

Men are superior to women (surah 2:228).
 
Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (surah 2:282) and in inheritance
(surah 4:11).
 
A man may punish his wife by beating her (surah 4:34)  !!
 
A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (surah 4:3).
 
A wife is a sex object for her husband (surah 2:223). 
 
Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (surah 9:29).
 
A Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend (surah 5:51) !!
 
A Muslim apostate must be killed (surah 9:12).
 
Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (surah 5:38).
 
Adultery is punished by public flogging (surah 24:2).
 
Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet
(surah 5:33).
 
Fate decides everyone's eternal destination (surah 17:13).
 
Every Muslim will pass through Hell (surah 19:71).     
 
Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim will be reclining, eating meats and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with virgins (surah 55:54- 56) &
(surah 52:17,19).

-O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11] !!!!!!!!!

-Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152) !!!!!!!!!!!

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)     !!!!!!

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29). 

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81) !!!!!!!!!!

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).
-------

The failure within the Koran, within the culture of islam- which seems to have destroyed the advancements of the arabian culture, and stole much from the Jewish and Christian cultures whilst trying to invade, submit and destroy them.

Israel is the truest victim of all this. It is been savagely bent into pretzel shape as a jizya for the hounds of Islam- forgive my sanguine language, but Islam has brought so much death and destruction and domination against all it comes against.

Posted by: mgoldberg at March 24, 2006 5:56 PM

Leaders that don't babble on and speak with clarity are PM Howard and his successor (I hope) Costello. Why did they (Australia) get all the good stuff?

Posted by: John Sobieski at March 24, 2006 5:56 PM

"It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance," he said."

A big part of the reason that the profit mahomet's manifesto commands the cultists to kill non-muslim males is so that they can appropriate the females at the 4:1 ratio, instead of nature's 1:1. Yea, real practical.

Posted by: Infidel33 at March 24, 2006 5:59 PM

"I am not qualified to make any judgements."

Firstly, he certainly has made a judgement - a rose-tinted one.

Secondly, any text or speech demanding that one believes its claims is there to be judged - that's what 'communication' means - say something and have others judge what you're saying.

Several possibilities:

1. He read the wrong text, perhaps a bowdlerised koran.
2. He has read the correct text but chooses to ignore the calls to violence for personal or political reasons.
3. He has read the correct text but is too stupid to understand the calls to violence and see that they are causing violence today.

Pretty depressing, anyway!

Posted by: Lili at March 24, 2006 6:03 PM

Blair is showing his true colours. Somebody please stand up in the British parliament and have a non confidence vote now. Anybody will be better than this guy. Even the biggest pinko in the labour party would make a better leader. At least they dont pretend to be tough. With Tony we get a pinko in Conservative clothing. So everyone thinks he is being tough on muslims and they let their guard down. Tony Blair must go.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at March 24, 2006 6:03 PM

Hahahahaha.............!!!

Heeheehee..............!!!

The pyschological-suggestion technique at it's most outrageous.*
Truth is "whatever ya want it to be". Hey, if the "government" sez it, it MUST be true! Absolutely, fursure,fursure.

Posted by: kentim at March 24, 2006 6:06 PM

Even Prince Charles would not utter seuch ignorant drivel.
This must be another example of heavily misquoted speech by islamic publications.
Surely the speech is available from a more reliable source.
IF not then Britain is well on the road to perdition.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at March 24, 2006 6:06 PM

The muslims are always bragging about thousands of years ago. What have they done for the world lately, besides suicide bombings?

Posted by: Truth at March 24, 2006 6:07 PM

Blair is either a complete liar, or he's steeped in wishful thinking. Besides - Blair doesn't want to kick Islamic-ass, he wants to kiss it instead!

Posted by: champ at March 24, 2006 6:37 PM

I've been reading Bruce Bower's 'While Europe Slept; How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within.'

This is a profoundly insightful (and most definitely disturbing) analysis of the coming of Eurabia written by a gay, liberal, American. For those with intractably liberal friends and/or family, this book could be just the ticket to open their eyes.

It is an interesting read for one thing because it recounts his personal experiences, from fleeing the "repressive" culture of the religious right in America where gay marriage is strenuously opposed...and moving to enlightened, gay-friendly Amsterdam, where he and his partner are routinely spat-upon, threatened and even physically assaulted by Muslim immigrants.

His disenchantment with Europe extends to the natives...who consider themselves so sophisticated but in point of fact are incredibly naive in so many of their views of the world. He attributes that naivetay with the stranglehold of the elite on the discourse in Europe...and documents the strident anti-Americanism of the press and electronic media.

Hugh may not like the disparaging connotations associated with our use of the word "elite," but in Europe, according to Bower, it is truly a force to be reckoned with, as the flow of information to the populace is controlled and colored in ways we Americans would find shocking. No wonder that same elite wants control of the internet; it is the one media outside their control right now.

If Bower is any guide, one certainly gets the impression that homosexuals are waking up to the dangers Islam poses to their well-being.

Now if we can just get the feminists on board...

Posted by: Cornelius at March 24, 2006 6:43 PM

"Leaders that don't babble on and speak with clarity are PM Howard and his successor (I hope) Costello. Why did they (Australia) get all the good stuff?"

Posted by: John Sobieski

JS, mate: Blair, Bush, Dr Rice, Clinton and Prince Charles are all boomers. Most boomers have a blind spot with the ROP; see no evil, read no evil. Howard & Costello are a generation apart, either way. JWH beat the only boomer PM Oz has had, and that was a decade ago. Hint for any political party in the West: put a non-boomer up against a boomer. People won't vote for their own destruction.

Posted by: islamophobic pride at March 24, 2006 6:58 PM

It sounds to me as if Blair is looking for a cushy position post-Prime Ministership. And the Arabs have a lot of money.

Posted by: Raw Data at March 24, 2006 6:58 PM

Blair is a traitor. Everyone here knows that Blair is uttering gibberish that, uttered from his lips as leader, endangers the lives of British citizens by lulling them into a false sense of security. Doesn’t his gibberish take the definition of “toady” to new extremes?

Blair: "The most remarkable thing about reading the Koran – in so far as it can be truly translated from the original Arabic…”

When they get into trouble, Islamic apologists will say the Koran must be read in Arabic, but…

Blair:“ - is to understand how progressive it is.”

…they will not raise this objection when bimbos like Blair express their admiration for it. (I know, Blair was well-educated, once upon a time. But education is like exercise: You’ve got to keep it up. Sounds like Blair’s critical faculties need some exercising).

Blair:"I speak with great diffidence and humility as a member of another faith. I am not qualified to make any judgements.”

He speaks with great diffidence an humility because of verse 9:29, which states that if he is not humble and diffident he must be fought and killed.

Not only is it the case that he is not qualified, but if Blair had been paying attention while he read that Koran, he would have noticed that it contains at least 250 verses condemning him and all other non-Muslims to the tortures of hell-fire for all eternity. In addition, according to an on-line skeptical annotation, there are at least 406 verses showing religious Intolerance, 532 verses showing Injustice, 333 verses showing Cruelty and Violence, 51 verses showing disrespect or mistreatment of Women, but there are only 64 verses showing what would generally be considered Good moral values (Source, retrieved January, 2006: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm ). Even the 'good' verses mostly only apply to Muslims; the positive sentiments are often not extended to the treatment of non-Muslims.

But the Koran itself says that Blair, as a non-Muslim, is not qualified to judge it. After all, the Koran says that non-Muslims are deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171, 5:103); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); they are a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111).

Blair: “But as an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book,”

Ah yes, reform. Here’s are some Koranic examples of “reform”:

Reform in the afterlife.

22:19-22. “...those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"”

Reform in the here and now.

5:33 “The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;”

“…trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, rather as reformers attempted with the Christian Church centuries later. It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition.”

Are you kidding? Even Allah himself was superstitious: 70:40 “But nay! I swear by the Lord of the rising-places and the setting-places of the planets that We verily are Able.” The Koran says that the sun sets in muddy water (18:83-86, and this cannot be a metaphor because it is in the context of an historical narrative), that the sky is a tent covering or canopy (2:22), and that a man’s semen originates between the ribs and the backbone (86:5-7; pssst! Note to Blair: It originates in the testes).

“It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance," he said.”

LOL! It permits polygamy (4:3), takes for granted that Muslim men can marry pre-pubescent girls (65:4), and that Muslim males can have and be “lewd” with their captive slave girls (70:29-30) in addition to their wives. The Koran asserts that Muslim man cannot treat his wives equally, even if he wanted to (4:129). Muslim men may exchange wives (4:20).

No one may share in Allah’s government (18:26; i.e., which is Koranic, Islamic Law, Sharia). All disputes must be referred to Allah 42:10. Retaliation is the law: eye for eye, life for life, tooth for tooth, etc. (5:45); ill deed in exchange for ill deed (2:194, 42:40).

It’s time was the 7th century. It is doubtful that it was ahead of it. Mohammad destroyed all 360 tribal religions; what a paragon of interfaith tolerance!

Maybe Blair also missed this one, the kind words of affection from Allah to the non-Muslims (i.e., those who do not accept Mohammad’s revelations and worldly ambitions for his followers in their entirety.

http://muttaqun.com/quran/e/nobe022.htm
22:15. “Whoever thinks that Allâh will not help him (Muhammad SAW) in this world and in the Hereafter, let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and let him strangle himself. Then let him see whether his plan will remove that whereat he rages!”

Tafsir confirms that this verse really does say “go hang yourself” (if you oppose Mohammad and his goals). Some translations say cut himself off, but this still means kill himself.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 24, 2006 7:07 PM

Another gem. Once again, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Definitely ranks right up there with "Religion of Peace" and "We don't want to interfere with Afghanistan's sovereignty." Is Esposito writing Blair's speeches now?

Posted by: amana39 at March 24, 2006 7:19 PM

Hell of a racket they've got going there. I remember, almost a decade ago in a "world religions" class in high school, coming away with almost exactly the same impression.

The problem is that the prevailing presentation is grounded in:

- Selective reading (like Approaching the Quran), ignorant of or deliberately concealing abrogation and nastier verses
- The fear of offending by disagreeing.
- A sense of denial that any religion might not be what it advertises itself to be.
- Accepting just about any smiling, mild-mannered practitioner as an "expert" and representative of their entire group.

A stack of Robert Spencer's books needs to find their way into 10 Downing Street, because whoever has coached Blair on Islam so far has sold the Prime Minister's office a supersized order of bridges.

Not unlike these:

http://www.bridges.tv/home.asp (scroll down for a look at "Prominent Scholars.")

Feh.

Posted by: Shinoliite at March 24, 2006 7:22 PM

Way ahead of it's time?? The Koran was trying to return Judaism to it's roots??

How- by slaughtering all the men and raping the women to make a population of muslims for the global conquest it then undertook??

How- by making women chattel to be owned?

Women in the Torah were venerated. Not just talk. The stories of Ruth ( a convert ) Rachel, the matriachs, Sarah- Closer to G-d than even Abraham, the judge Devorah- a women- who judged all of Israel, as she was the best of the best. There are countless examples, not just tokens and nonsense of the likes of Blair- looking for post office oil loot for himself.

The holiday of freedom, the holiday of Purim, every jew must read from the Megilla Esther- the story as told by Esther, of the almost annihilation of the jewish people and their salvation.

Every jewish man, when he marries in a traditional wedding, signs a document- the Ketuba.

It is as far as I know, the oldest document that truly protects and elevates a woman, and demands that if a man leave a women, this document held by her mom, commands that she be taken care of for life, unless she remarry.

Who the hell is Blair kidding? The Muslims enslaved the human race as dhimmi, as 'niggers' if truth be told what the word means.

1800 yrs before Mohammed married for money- and then 11 more times after his first wife died- in 14 yrs- making a cattle show of his female breeding herd; there were understanding from the Torah and the oral Talmud. A women was to be offered pleasure on the eve of Shabbas, but if she was too tired, from taking care of the home and the children and the husband, he was not to pursue. It was for her pleasure that it was essentially reserved.

What a bunch of hooey, this creepy twaddle about the advancements of Islam. You dress a women up like a covered vagina, and forbid the site of her to others- and she must be accompanied by a man if she is to walk about?!?

Someone, please email Blair and tell him he's an idiot.
Churchill ( Winston) not the traitor Ward- called the Koran, the Mein Kamph of Religion, or something like that.

What poppycock he is reported to have spouted.

Posted by: mgoldberg at March 24, 2006 7:41 PM

In the military we have a saying "know your enemy: Blair is not the enemy, it's the PC PHD advisors. Someone needs to replace them with an educated non PC type. My vote would be Hugh. Texican would be good also, but he wouldn't like England.

Posted by: Ronin at March 24, 2006 7:53 PM

Well, Blair was trying to be PC but I suggest to read ALL his speach here: http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page9224.asp

As someone else already said the Muslim Weekly chose to quote only what was convenient for them.

They did not quote this, for example:
"This terrorism will not be defeated until its ideas, the poison that warps the minds of its adherents, are confronted, head-on, in their essence, at their core. "

Nor did they quote Blair saying:
"The different aspects of this terrorism are linked. The struggle against terrorism in Madrid or London or Paris is the same as the struggle against the terrorist acts of Hezbollah in Lebanon or the PIJ in Palestine or rejectionist groups in Iraq. The murder of the innocent in Beslan is part of the same ideology that takes innocent lives in Saudi Arabia, the Yemen or Libya. And when Iran gives support to such terrorism, it becomes part of the same battle with the same ideology at its heart."

Me says: never trust those muslims or their pubs...

Art

Posted by: Art at March 24, 2006 7:56 PM

The muslim barbarians take over the library at the university of Sorbonne/France and destroy 10 centuries worth of cultural heritage.
http://www.english-france-echos.blogspot.com

Posted by: adela at March 24, 2006 7:58 PM

It has too be hard for someone to make a speech which will get the point across and not cause idiots to riot and burn things. I wouldn't have Blairs job for any amount of money. Still you are only as good as your writers and advisors. First we take control of the muslims then the PC types who back them.

Posted by: Ronin at March 24, 2006 8:01 PM

How rude of me. In the excitment I forgot to say that the one I just made was my first post after lurking for a while here and on JW.

Was good to find people that share the same view on Muslims and their religion. Much like finding brothers and sisters in a foreign land.

Cheers everybody

Art

Posted by: Art at March 24, 2006 8:08 PM

When reading this article; I could not believe my eyes. Mr. Blair does not realized that the Holy Bible is truly the advanced book of its time, not the Koran. The Holy Bible in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures elevated women and that in the eyes of God, as equals as St. Paul has said, " There is nether Jew nor Gentle, slave or free person, male or female. " Also St. Paul calls "husbands to love their wives as Christ loves his church". Even Jesus had women as his first followers. The first Easter Sunday, it was women who discovered the empty tomb of the risen Christ. All in all, this proves that the Bible is for all peoples and all times.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 24, 2006 8:30 PM

Forgot to add, that the real first follower of Jesus, was and is, his mother, Mary.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 24, 2006 8:32 PM

mgoldberg -

I share your confusion! Blair stated that the Koran wants to bring "Judaism and Christianity back to it's roots."

Huh?!? I'm a Christian, so I'm just as confused as you are, because Muslims's believe that Ishmael was Abraham's intended sacrifice in the book of Genesis. We, Christians and Jews, believe that Isaac was the son Abraham brought to be sacrificed.

Blair doesn't know what he's talking about, because anyone who knows the basics about the Koran knows that the roots of their faith are very different from ours.

Posted by: champ at March 24, 2006 8:47 PM

I think they are all on the take.

Quite simple. It makes sense: Whether its old Blowjob Clinton, Peanut Carter or Papa Bush, the despicable Gallow-swine or that German ex-chancellor Shredder, Bob Dole or that Jack 'Chamberline' Straw or Cherie Blair.

They go to the ME on some 'speaking tour' for which they are paid exorbitant amounts, all the way praising Islam and knocking their own. Whatever the Arabs promise them, they come back with full pockets and promises for more. This definitely is what is happening to us right now.

Only when laws are being changed that those who aid and abet the enemy will be hanged along with those on the take we will see change.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 24, 2006 8:57 PM

This sort of nonsense goes beyond mere pandering. It's a violation of the law of non-contradiction. Blair is either a mental deficient or an intellectual criminal. In either case he ought to be removed from office and sent packing.

Posted by: Lepanto at March 24, 2006 9:00 PM

Here is the softer side of Islam that wants to bring Christian and Jews back to their Islamic roots:

All religions other than Islam are heresy and error. Any place designated for worship other than [that of] Islam is a place of heresy and error, for it is forbidden to worship Allah in any way other than the way that Allah has prescribed in Islam. The law of Islam (shari'a) is the final and definitive religious law. It applies to all men and jinns and abrogates all that came before it.

Those who claim that there is truth in what the Jews say, or in what the Christians say - whether he is one of them or not - is denying the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad's sunna and the consensus of the Muslim nation… Allah said: 'Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him [3:85]'; 'The unbelievers from among the people of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] and the polytheists are in hellfire and will be [there] forever. They are the worst of all creation… [98:6].'

Therefore, religion necessitates the prohibition of unbelief, and this requires the prohibition of worshiping Allah in any way other than that of the Islamic shari'a. Included in this is the prohibition against building houses of worship according to the abrogated religious laws, Jewish or Christian or anything else, since these houses of worship - whether they be churches or other houses of worship - are considered heretical houses of worship, because the worship that is practiced in them is in violation of the Islamic shari'a, which abrogates all religious law that came before it.

Thus the 'ulama agreed that it is forbidden to build heretical houses of worship - such as Christian churches - in a Muslim country, and that it is forbidden for there to be two directions of prayer coexisting in a Muslim country, and that there should be no symbol of unbelief, neither churches nor anything else. They agreed that it is obligatory to destroy any church or other heretical house of worship that was built after [the advent of] Islam, and it is forbidden to oppose the ruler in the matter of its destruction, and he must be obeyed.

Posted by: Lisa at March 24, 2006 9:14 PM

The above is quoted from an official Saudi fatwa, our good friends and allies.

Posted by: Lisa at March 24, 2006 9:16 PM

Provoslavni
Entirely agree with you. The treachery of the West towards Serbia will be paid for in blood as Britain & Europe's Muslims bomb and terrorize their hosts. As I put in an E Mail to BBC 'By the time Dhimmi Dimwits understand Serbia it will be too late. Situation in Kosovo will be a teaparty compared to carnage on Western
Streets when leaders such as Blair finally admit it's either FIGHT OR FLIGHT for Non Muslims IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES. Hey, ever heard of History repeating itself...'

Posted by: Morgane at March 24, 2006 9:17 PM

"I speak with great diffidence and humility as a member of another faith. I am not qualified to make any judgements...."

Prime Minister, you can say that again. You just emphatically demonstrated it.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 24, 2006 10:19 PM

So, tell me, why exactly did he bother to fight on our side at all?

Just hoist the black flag of Is-Lame over 10 Downing Street and have done with it, Tone!

Posted by: Cato the Elder at March 24, 2006 10:52 PM

"Now if we can just get the feminists on board..."

Well Cornelius, you have this feminist on board, and hundreds of those working for human rights and women's rights in Islamic countries and migrant communities.

Also, fear not, there are millions of us who appreciate, use and will defend our rights, but whom you may not think of us 'feminist' because the word has been maligned in the last decades.

But to women who think the term 'feminist' is negative I'd say 'well give up your vote, education and right to work - it was feminists who got us those rights'. Women who appreciate that effort should re-claim the term.

Posted by: Lili at March 24, 2006 11:28 PM

Mr.Blair,please tell how inclusive and progressive the koran is,to the ex muslim convicted to death in Afghanistan.
Please also explain the wonders of the koran to the families of the 9/11 victims,Beslan victims,
Madrid victims,London Victims,to the wife of Theo Van Gogh,and many,many others who have been and are being victimized by the religion of peace allover the world.

Posted by: adela at March 24, 2006 11:57 PM

C'mon, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Why should only Muslims be allowed to make use of the Taqqiya?

Posted by: highbg at March 25, 2006 12:05 AM

I think that Tony Blair has definitely gone over to the dark side.

Posted by: CelticCoyote at March 25, 2006 12:19 AM

"Abhors superstition"? I suppose Jinns, or Shaytan, or whoever it is/they are have been located by magnetic resonance in the noses of Muslims in the morning. Odd it hasn't been published in the journals yet.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at March 25, 2006 12:40 AM

I don't believe these are Blair's words. He would be crazy to make a speech like this, crazy!
Blair is an orator extraordinare but this is over the top, even for him. This speech has muslim editing written all over it.

Posted by: Susanp at March 25, 2006 12:44 AM

Amen Lili.

Indeed the word feminist has been (mis)appropriated - much as the word liberal has...and now means something very different then it once did. How very sad that advocating for women has taken a back seat among feminists in order to further the agenda of the Left.

Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broderick, assaulted Kathleen Willey and exposed himself to Paula Jones, yet all was forgiven by the feminists because of his Left-wing politics. Meanwhile, Clarence Thomas was crucified for saying the word "pubic hair" in mixed company because he was pro-life. No hypocrisy there folks.

And today, NOW and other feminist groups have not a word to say about Islamic misogyny...for fear of upsetting the powers-that-be among their fellow travelers on the Left.

I've read the most absurd apologia imaginable coming from hard-core feminists regarding Islam: The Norwegian sociologist Uni Wikan who blames the epidemic of rape in her native country not on the Pakistani immigrants who are the perpetrators, but on the victims themselves, for not taking into account that they now live in a multicultural society and therefore should dress accordingly (i.e., veil themselves); the American radical feminist professor whose name escapes me but who blames Islamic misogyny on the 'frustrations of the Muslim man in coping with the Western colonial presence in his homeland.' I suppose it never occured to such a vapid intellect that Islamic misogyny pre-dated the Western colonial period by 1200 some-odd years.

Interestingly, the apologists in Europe are also the old-guard feminists, while an activist, anti-Islamist faction has emerged...lead by disaffected Muslim women. We could start calling them neo-fems.

Posted by: Cornelius at March 25, 2006 12:55 AM

Whoa. This guy is seriously confused. And you say he's prime minister of Great Britain?

I believe Tariq Ramadan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ramadan) may have some play in a statement like his. Being the grandson of a founder of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, I wouldn't trust him one inch. In France, several books have been published about his speeches in Arab language and the radical (pun intended) difference from what he says in European languages to what he preaches in Arab.

Unfortunately, the UK government seems to be completely unaware that he's perhaps not the best advisor to have on board.

Blair really should learn to be more critical. And fast, things are sliding fast in old Britain.

Posted by: Henrik at March 25, 2006 2:50 AM

Well Henrik, arabs keep telling us that the koran can't be translated. Seems like the principle applies to newspaper articles, too.

Posted by: Lili at March 25, 2006 3:04 AM

He added that under the guidance of the Qur’an, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands was "breathtaking"...

Yup, it was called the Crusades you idiot!

Posted by: McCain2008 at March 25, 2006 3:40 AM

Thank you MR BLIAR and this is the reason why many decent hard working class christian citizens in Britain are for the first time in their lives, turning to the bnp. Not for racist reasons, not for being against allowing for other faiths to flourish but because as good christians, jesus said we must each carry our cross. Yes each day that islam grows stronger all christians that allow it are carrying their own cross to calvery for the very people who will crucify us. Why does this government insist we must respect the beliefs of people whome wish to kill us. NOW THAT TRULY IS POLITICAL CORRECT MADNESS! Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do. OR DO THEY?

Posted by: dizzyfatplonka at March 25, 2006 4:03 AM

Is this for real??? Blair is a guy who said he went to war because God told him to. He is no way going to praise another religion at the expense of his. I think this is false propaganda.

A little more googling leads to this page... http://fpc.org.uk/in-news/ and from there to this page http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/blai-m24.shtml

As usual the muslim media is reading between lines and making a mountain out of mole. Blair basically has said that it was ahead of its time for 7th century, not for today. He had this to say too...

"Blair echoed those who profess that Islam has fallen behind the advanced Western world due to the impact of the Renaissance, the Reformation, and the Enlightenment. His invocations of an ideological crusade were backed up by reference to his own Christian faith and his desire to safeguard “our way of life.”

It was not simply a question of defeating terrorism, Blair said, but defeating the “global ideology” that lay behind it, which had become “embedded now in the culture of many nations and capable of eruption at any time.”

This ideology had to be taken on by “telling them their attitude to America is absurd; their concept of governance pre-feudal; their positions on women and other faiths, reactionary and regressive.”"

Posted by: csa bill at March 25, 2006 4:21 AM

Blair is appealling to the moderate Muslims, its a mistake he should be carrying out policies that help moderate Muslims leave Islam.

The speach was carefully crafted to appeal to those moderates. Blair is not and was never stupid, however his policies are part of the problem and the cultural baggage he has from old labour.

On Harry's Place one poster made effectively the following statement, the right has won the economic and political war, the left the culture war, the left are incapable of defending that which they have won.

I think that is a fair reflection.

As for getting rid of him and his party, its impossible, they have loaded the seat in parliment to make it impossible for a tory victory.

I never really liked Blair, but he does have principles and he sticks to them. Also remember that he was very close to the imam who was murdered by Sadr's people a couple of weeks after the fall of Bagdad.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 25, 2006 5:23 AM

Tony Blair is a pathetic, sniveling, excuse for a man. Now you see who is behind all these ridiculous speeches that Prince Charles is given to deliver in Muslim occupied lands.

The first part, I agree with with - wholeheartedly. The secod part, I think you're wrong on. Charles has been an Islamophile for many years. Indeed, his Islamophilism (or should that be 'Islamophilia', because it sounds more like the disease it actually is!) pre-dates Blair's becoming prime minister.

Remember, it was Tony Blair who, along with Slick Willie Clinton, bombed Christian Serbia and forced the islamic destruction of Kosovo. Both of them, along with Mad Albright, "General" Clark etc. ought to be tried and executed as the war criminals they are. One day, these petty anti-Christs will look up from Hell and see those they've persecuted, like Slobodon Milosevic, looking down on them.

Yes, and that was disgraceful, too. Would Muslims ever have fought against their own kind if the tables had been reversed? Don't bother to answer that question! We all know what the answer is.

If the Koran is so progressive, why are its followers so backwards?

Howard, Fine & Howard (wow, that fine name sounds like the name of an upscale attorney's practice!), you've got that right! Why indeed?

Please excuse me if I feel like throwing up!

Yes, Razdan, so do I. All over him!

Posted by: Mark Alexander at March 25, 2006 8:12 AM

"Now if we can just get the feminists on board..." - Cornelius

We need an entirely new feminist movement.

You've heard of "girls with guitars"? How about "girls with guns"?

The new woman - Anne Coulter with a six shooter.

Protecting the first amendment with the second. Isn't that how it should be?

Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 25, 2006 8:20 AM

csa bill,

EXTRACT from the actual speech

The most remarkable thing about reading the Koran - in so far as it can be truly translated from the original Arabic - is to understand how progressive it is. I speak with great diffidence and humility as a member of another faith. I am not qualified to make any judgements. But as an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, rather as reformers attempted with the Christian Church centuries later. It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance.

Under its guidance, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands was breathtaking. Over centuries it founded an Empire, leading the world in discovery, art and culture. The standard bearers of tolerance in the early Middle Ages were far more likely to be found in Muslim lands than in Christian.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 25, 2006 8:23 AM

I'm being redundant but considering the fact that Mohammed lead the extermination of Jews, and called for the killing of them and the Christians, and in fact, lead 75 such slaughterings, on the way to emptying the Arabian peninsula of such people- how the hell does Blair get away with making such nonsensical statements??

I don't understand- really, I don't.

There must be people who have the honesty to stand up and speak of such things for the outrageous lies they are.

It is nonsense and beyond. The problem is, it seems, is that as always, these lies get a life of their own, and are not challenged enough, such that they can be dutifully disgraced as the disinformation.

Was it Winston Churchill who said:
'A lie gets halfway around the world, before the truth puts on it's pants'

Posted by: mgoldberg at March 25, 2006 8:41 AM

"Howard, Fine & Howard (wow, that fine name sounds like the name of an upscale attorney's practice!), you've got that right! Why indeed?"

Mark,

Thanks for the compliment. As for the name, you must not be a Three Stooges fan. Howard, Fine & Howard are Moe, Larry & Curly. Actually, those are their stage names. Their real names are Harry Horowitz, Louis Fineberg and Jerome Horowitz.

No upscale law firm ever had a name as honorable as Howard, Fine & Howard. "Moe, Larry, the cheese!"

Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at March 25, 2006 9:11 AM

I'm not buying this for one minute, somebody prove me right, or wrong!!

Posted by: Mackie at March 25, 2006 9:27 AM

Rebecca... I saw that too... But the reform that Blair is talking is relative to the early 7th century culture. Too bad Blair doesn't understand that all that is there in the quran is nothing but a twisted version of previous works by Greek, Roman, Christian, Jewish literary & religious works and nothing original. The only thing that might be original is the hatred for pigs.

For e.g the nonsense that some muslim websites claim about quranic cosmology was known to the Greeks much earlier, who conquered till the Sindh in the sub-continent. Even if the knowledge of quranic cosmology did not come to Arab world thru the Greeks, there are plenty of examples where the same scientific theories are developed by multiple scientists in parallel.

Posted by: csa bill at March 25, 2006 9:33 AM

Not to mention that there is nothing scientific about the quran since all statements have been proved just false advertisements. Why is nobody suing the muslims for misleading advertisements????

Posted by: csa bill at March 25, 2006 9:34 AM

((( Blair ain't read no Koran! )))

I can't stop laughing!!

This is show case politics at its best – though carefully worded to sooth.

As at the same time the UK government is cracking down on immigration - and on Islamic schools - and I could imagine that all Islamic organizations are now being infiltrated.

He has to protect the country first.
That is what the Muslims believe – he simply told them what they wanted to hear – in the effort to maintain good relations.

It’s a gamble.
Between Islam ‘itself’ being the total threat or the radical element ‘within it’ being the threat.

When it comes to immigration an increasing number of European countries are taking the view that Islam ‘itself’ is a threat. But when it comes to those Islamic people within these countries – some having lived there for many years – the radical element is seen more as the threat.

So to butter up 'normal' Islam – however one feels about it personally – would cause the majority of Muslims to feel included, and so reject the more radical element.

Will this work – is the question?

Posted by: Pass It On at March 25, 2006 10:02 AM

I haven' located the full text of this March 21st speech yet, but from what I have read so far is that a great deal of it has been clearly taken out of context.

Posted by: Mackie at March 25, 2006 10:18 AM

Tony Blair is an idiot--a very dangerous one. Maybe he should do some reading at The Truth Project!

Posted by: WatchfulEye at March 25, 2006 10:45 AM

Mackie, full text here:
http://fpc.org.uk/events/past/231

Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 25, 2006 10:54 AM

Well well. Lets see if Englanders will vote him out of office......

Posted by: el greco at March 25, 2006 11:02 AM

I'm gobsmacked, nauseated, bewildered, amazed and very, very, angry.
How can this cretin be prime minister of the U.K.
For this he deserves to be beaten and thrown out of office and then prosecuted for treason, as he is obviously helping the muslims to take over.
May the public hound him out of office very soon so that the business of sorting the muslims out can get started.......
oh Winston where are you.

Posted by: marilyn at March 25, 2006 11:06 AM

Here's the wind up paragraph that should be included in any anthology:

"The extremism is not the true voice of Islam. Neither is that voice necessarily to be found in those who are from one part only of Islamic thought, however assertively that voice makes itself heard. It is, as ever, to be found in the calm, but too often unheard beliefs of the many Muslims, millions of them the world over, including in Europe, who want what we all want: to be ourselves free and for others to be free also; who regard tolerance as a virtue and respect for the faith of others as part of our own faith. That is what this battle is about, within Islam and outside of it; it is a battle of values and progress; and therefore it is one we must win."

Karen Hughes couldn't have said it better.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 25, 2006 11:14 AM

Unhappily, the British will NOT vote him out. (In any case, he's supposed to be going voluntarily soo......n).

But an equally cretinous successor will step effortlessly into his shoes.

We once great Btitish people are much too stupid these days to lift a finger to stop ourselves being destroyed.

Whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make brain dead.

Posted by: david at March 25, 2006 11:26 AM

More fluff from Blair, I hardly think the islamic world is going to believe him as no one over here believes him...

Posted by: fido at March 25, 2006 11:37 AM

Oh com'on! Blair is a politician & a bullsh_t artist..

Posted by: stranger at March 25, 2006 11:39 AM

Thanks for the link....have emailed him....or his office anyway.Lets bombard him.

Posted by: marilyn at March 25, 2006 11:42 AM

pass it on you got it in one. Will it work, hell no, because there are not many real moderate muslims, and that means people who reject Sharia and do not think that Mohammed is the perfect man. But it is better than crossing your fingers and hoping that Muslims intergrate, which was the previous strategy...

Posted by: Daffersd at March 25, 2006 11:49 AM

RE: "the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, rather as reformers attempted with the Christian Church centuries later. It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance," he said.
__________________________________________________

Has Tony Blair been brainwashed? I almost choked on my oatmeal this morning when I read these statements from Tony Blair. Obviously, he doesn't know the Koran very well and has been getting his information about Islam from an Islamic apologist.

Robert, will you please give him some history lessons. Well, at this stage doesn't really matter any more. Tony's days are numbered as a leader in Great Britian. The British election is fast approaching. His influence is waning.

There is nothing reforming about the Koran. The Koran is most definitely NOT inclusive. Try telling Rahman in Afghanistan the Koran is inclusive as he awaits his death sentence for becoming a Christian.

Where does the inspiration come for this serious LACK of inclusivity?

The Koran!

The Immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Quran 47:
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

Tony Blair states:
" under the guidance of the Qur’an, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands was 'breathtaking'."

Breathtaking?

Deplorable is a more suitable word.

Get your historical facts straight Tony Blair!

Read here:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/Crusades.htm

This article is also very good:
http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/jc140602.htm

Posted by: Johnathan at March 25, 2006 12:05 PM

Tony Blair probably did not really put much thought into this speech; he said what he thought the crowd wanted to hear perhaps, within the bounds of politically accepted ideas. Just another speech. So, what?

But I wonder how this speech (which few but Web sites like Jihad Watch and a handful of others really care much about) will affect the way the Tony Blair will be remembered?

Curses fall upon leaders, no matter how well intentioned, who act as fools, who lead their people to slaughter, who do not sound the early warning. And Tony Blair in this speech goes so far as to aid and abets the enemy.

And so will go his legacy.

Posted by: JTF at March 25, 2006 2:10 PM

Over centuries it founded an Empire, leading the world in discovery, art and culture.

I thought Empires were supposed to be bad, bad, bad! I guess only if they're Christian empires. . .

Posted by: Suzan at March 25, 2006 2:27 PM

Blair is on his way out. He's not doing well with in country. I believe most people don't listen to much of what he says. Excuse me, I must go and regurgitate my dinner. I will still rejoice after, with Andrew's success!

Posted by: herself at March 25, 2006 2:32 PM

Still trying to wrap my noggin around Blair's statement about it being a clash about civilization not a clash between civilizations. Doesn't it amount to the same thing? If it's a clash about civilization, its about those who believe freedom and Western democracy are the way to be civilized, and those who believe that following the strict letter of the Koran is the way to be civilized. There are still two sides of a an unbridgeable divide, arguing about who gets to define what "civilization" is for the world.

In other words, same difference, Mr. Blair.

Posted by: scaramouoche at March 25, 2006 5:12 PM

Ahead of its time? Oh gee! islamic law is about to be thrusted upon us judging by this moronic statement... The next election will be most interesting indeed.

Posted by: stranger at March 25, 2006 6:56 PM

I finally got a chance to read the entire text of the speech and am mostly in agreement with the poster Art (at 7:56pm on 3/24), who also linked to the full text of the speech.

Clearly, the Muslim Weekly only chose to excerpt a small slice of this speech and the excerpt it selected is indeed nauseating enough to account for the large numbers of keyboards throughout the world that have now been destroyed by vomit.

BUT

Blair also very clearly 1. Links widespread events together as evidence of the global jihad and 2. Firmly dispenses with any explanation of these separate events as justified "grievances".

“This terrorism will not be defeated until its ideas, the poison that warps the minds of its adherents, are confronted, head-on, in their essence, at their core. By this I don't mean telling them terrorism is wrong. I mean telling them their attitude to America is absurd; their concept of governance pre-feudal; their positions on women and other faiths, reactionary and regressive; and then since only by Muslims can this be done: standing up for and supporting those within Islam who will tell them all of this but more, namely that the extremist view of Islam is not just theologically backward but completely contrary to the spirit and teaching of the Koran.

But in order to do this, we must reject the thought that somehow we are the authors of our own distress; that if only we altered this decision or that, the extremism would fade away. The only way to win is: to recognise this phenomenon is a global ideology; to see all areas, in which it operates, as linked; and to defeat it by values and ideas set in opposition to those of the terrorists.”

That bit about “completely contrary to the spirit and teaching of the Koran” is admittedly quite unfortunate. But when he says “It [the Koran] is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance” – I see no reason to infer that he means anything other than progressive for the 7th century because he clearly takes the Muslim world to task for its backwardness in the present. In short, there is a great deal to complain about the speech but it is also very much the case that the Muslim Weekly is guilty of great journalistic crimes of omission in this article.

Posted by: Caroline at March 25, 2006 7:55 PM

"The most remarkable thing about the Koran is how progressive it is.

Do you remember when I printed a list of similarities between Muslims and liberals?
Isn't progressive another name for liberal???
If progressive is a code name for totalitarian Communist, (and I claim that it is!) then the ultra-liberal Blair is totally correct.
But if you think progressive means tolerant, curious, hygienic then ....

Posted by: dococ at March 25, 2006 8:33 PM

Mr BLAIR !!
"It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance," he said"

What book is Blair reading from ?
The last time I read the Qu'ran, it estolled the beating of wives if they didn't co-operate.
The killing of infidels.
The description of a Fetus as "grub shaped", (I think that is the scientific part), preoccupation with the number '9', as some thing meaningful. (lucky for the Qu'ran we evolved using base 10 number system)

God forbid he starts reading the Hadiths...

Peter

Posted by: Peter at March 25, 2006 8:44 PM

It is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance," he said.

Science: islamic style
Tabari I:219 “When Allah wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke hovered loftily over it. He called it ‘heaven.’ Then He dried out the water and made it earth. He split it and made it seven earths on Sunday. He created the earth upon a big fish, that being the fish mentioned in the Qur’an. By the Pen, the fish was in the water. The water was upon the back of a small rock. The rock was on the back of an angel. The angel was on a big rock. The big rock was in the wind. The fish became agitated. As a result, the earth quaked, so Allah anchored the mountains and made it stable. This is why the Qur’an says, ‘Allah made for the earth firmly anchored mountains, lest it shake you up.’

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 25, 2006 11:59 PM

way ahead of its time in attitudes to marriage, women and governance,"

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 26, 2006 12:03 AM

Thank you for the references, mgoldberg.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 26, 2006 12:10 AM

Thanks Art and Caroline,

I've just read the full article as per your suggestions. (BTW, I don’t expect you guys to read or respond to all of my comments in this post. This is just an exercise and if people want to read through it, fine)

As far as I can judge it, the block of text posted by Rebecca originally (from the Islamic website) still expresses the same meaning, in context. I don't think anyone had imagined that Blair had abandoned his views on the war on terror, simply due to his presentation of foolhardy comments about Islam. This is essentially the same line Bush and Blair have always maintained: It's a tiny minority of extremists who have warped and misunderstood Islam, and who are simply using it for political purposes.

Polls show that a large minority of British Muslims want sharia law (40%), and 58% wanted the Danish cartoonists to be criminally prosecuted and punished for blasphemy. These percentages are undoubtedly higher in Muslim countries.

And we have seen, in example after example, how the actions of terrorists and sharia-enthusiasts conform directly to straightforward interpretations of the Islamic scriptures.

We know all of this, but Blair as a politician needs to know this and needs to find a clever way to say this. He should explicitly identify the goal of the Islamists, which is to establish sharia, and should identify all of the various ways this political-religious system is being pursued.

Caroline, you note:
"Blair also very clearly 1. Links widespread events together as evidence of the global jihad"

[but he still construes it as a terrorist ideology and overall he thinks he is fighting terrorism. He is even hesitant with regard to using the phrase "Islamic extremism"].

and

"and 2. Firmly dispenses with any explanation of these separate events as justified "grievances".

[agreed, and that's an important point to make]

I add some of my comments on some parts of Blair’s speech that caught my eye.

“I also acknowledge - and shall at a later time expand on this point - that the state of the MEPP and the stand-off between Israel and Palestine remains a, perhaps the, real, genuine source of anger in the Arab and Muslim world that goes far beyond usual anti-western feeling. The issue of "even handedness" rankles deeply. I will set out later how we should respond to Hamas in a way that acknowledges its democratic mandate but seeks to make progress peacefully.”

[problems:
-doesn’t acknowledge here, though he talks about a global network of terrorism, that Israel-Palestine conflict is merely one out of many. What about Sudan?
-Hasn’t read the Hamas charter, doesn’t acknowledge the history of Hamas,
-doesn’t understand the connection between Hamas and Islam,
-doesn’t know that suicide attacks against women and children is permitted if it is unavoidable (note: fighting in “Allah’s Cause” is unavoidable until Judgment Day, the prophet himself permitted the killing of women and children in such circumstances, and there is no penalty for killing a non-Muslim anyway unless they are slave or dhimmi)
-doesn’t understand Islamic land policy (which is in the Koran—any land occupied by Muslims is Muslim for all time and must be fought for as a religious duty, failure to do so is hypocrisy, hypocrites must be executed),
-is dreaming if he thinks Hamas will accept a permanent peace (again, Islam only allows for temporary truces with the non-Muslims),
-ignores the fact that Hamas wants to impose full sharia (is that peaceful?), etc.]

“There is an interesting debate going on inside government today about how to counter extremism in British communities. Ministers have been advised never to use the term "Islamist extremist". It will give offence. It is true. It will. There are those - perfectly decent-minded people - who say the extremists who commit these acts of terrorism are not true Muslims. And, of course, they are right.”

[Not “true” Muslims? Are Meccan-verse Muslims more true than Medinian-verse Muslims? What about Muslims who opportunistically subscribe to either the Meccan or Medinian verses according to circumstances? He’s wrong, and he doesn’t have to say any of this anyway. He’s just tying himself into knots. Why doesn’t he just say he opposes those who push for sharia?]

“They are no more proper Muslims than the Protestant bigot who murders a Catholic in Northern Ireland is a proper Christian. But, unfortunately, he is still a "Protestant" bigot. To say his religion is irrelevant is both completely to misunderstand his motive and to refuse to face up to the strain of extremism within his religion that has given rise to it.”

[Equates Christianity with Islam. We know this is an invalid comparison]

"[re Sadiq Khan] There was something tragic, terrible but also ridiculous about such a diatribe. He may have been born here. But his ideology wasn't. And that is why it has to be taken on, everywhere."

[Saddique Khan’s ideology was born in Britain. Two origins: Islamists in Britain (Koran, theory), and western self-loathing. It was given the finishing touches at the Al-Qaeda training camps (Koran, applied). The ideology has to be taken on, yes, but given what Blair has said about Islam, I do not believe he is up to the task].

“This terrorism will not be defeated until its ideas, the poison that warps the minds of its adherents, are confronted, head-on, in their essence, at their core.”

[Sounds good, but he’s not doing it in this speech].

“By this I don't mean telling them terrorism is wrong. I mean telling them their attitude to America is absurd; their concept of governance pre-feudal; their positions on women and other faiths, reactionary and regressive;”

[Good, notwithstanding his limited conception of who “they” are…]

“…and then since only by Muslims can this be done:”

[I think that’s a seriously mistaken assumption. Help from moderate Muslims is fine, but much of the work and much of the drive will have to come from non-Muslims. It has been proven over the last 5 years that moderate Muslims have had at best a minimal impact. Without the pressure from non-Muslims, most moderate Muslims will generally not be motivated to act].

“…standing up for and supporting those within Islam who will tell them all of this but more, namely that the extremist view of Islam is not just theologically backward but completely contrary to the spirit and teaching of the Koran.”

[They can’t dissuade the Islamists. The moderates need to seize power—clerical positions, positions in Islamic organizations, governments, and schools. We shouldn’t need argumentation to show that sharia is bad. Get the radical imams out of there and replace them with moderates or radical progressive reformists. The government should intervene to facilitate this process. Again, viz. the Koran, Blair hasn’t read it or, hasn’t understood it. Moderates will have to ignore the bad stuff or explain it away]

“The roots of global terrorism and extremism are indeed deep. They reach right down through decades of alienation, victimhood and political oppression in the Arab and Muslim world.”

[This doesn’t explain why they attack non-Muslim civilians. This doesn’t explain why Mohammad Atta packed his wedding suit in his suitcase on the morning of Sept. 11/01. This doesn’t explain why they kill apostates nor why they kill critics and riot over cartoons].

“The extremism may have started through religious doctrine and thought. But soon, in offshoots of the Muslim brotherhood, supported by Wahabi extremists and taught in some of the Madrassas of the Middle East and Asia, an ideology was born and exported around the world.”

[Ignores 1400 years of Islamic history, most of the bloodshed happened before Wahhab came along, and the Muslim Brotherhood follows its Koran very closely from what I’ve seen].

“It ignores the true significance of the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan. The fact is: given the chance, the people wanted democracy. OK so they voted on religious or regional lines. That's not surprising, given the history.”

[OK?! Given the democracy, they used it to choose sharia. True, Afghanistan has improved since the Taliban, but anything is better than the Taliban. Lots of Afghans still want to kill critics and execute apostates of Islam. Nevertheless, I agree with Blair that we need to stay the course in Afghanistan with more troops and we need to stay on in Iraq in a reduced role]

“The extremism is not the true voice of Islam. Neither is that voice necessarily to be found in those who are from one part only of Islamic thought, however assertively that voice makes itself heard. It is, as ever, to be found in the calm, but too often unheard beliefs of the many Muslims, millions of them the world over, including in Europe, who want what we all want: to be ourselves free and for others to be free also; who regard tolerance as a virtue and respect for the faith of others as part of our own faith. That is what this battle is about, within Islam and outside of it; it is a battle of values and progress; and therefore it is one we must win.”

[I can’t fault that sentiment; of course we must fight it and win. He is simply naïve about what percentage of Muslims want what, and is naïve about the true voice of Islam. I would not be so presumptuous to say what the true voice of Islam is. Nevertheless, the Koran is clear that Muslims must conquer the whole world by force if necessary. Is there a true Islam that does not contain this goal?]

Posted by: Archimedes at March 26, 2006 12:11 AM

Oops. My initial claim that "Blair is a traitor" was an overstatement! Nevertheless, he is endangering the public with these platitudes about Islam. That nonsense has go to stop.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 26, 2006 12:26 AM

Typo, I meant "That nonsense has got to stop."

Posted by: Archimedes at March 26, 2006 12:28 AM

Archimedes - you did a nice job of pointing out just how many "platitudes" there are in the speech.

Overall, I think you summed up the speech best by noting, "This is essentially the same line Bush and Blair have always maintained: It's a tiny minority of extremists who have warped and misunderstood Islam, and who are simply using it for political purposes."

The question is, do they persist in this sort of public rhetoric despite grasping the bleaker picture merely in order to try to encourage reform within Islam and avoid a clash of civilizations? I could see some merit to that approach (publicly spoken platitudes) if Bush and Blair were simultaneously taking steps to limit Muslim immigration, shut down mosques and so on. But in the absence of those measures it would appear to be more likely that they are simply naive, as you say, about "what percentage of Muslims want what", although why this should be the case after elections in Iraq and Egypt and Lebanon and the Pali territories not to mention the cartoon riots, doesn't make sense. More polls like the one done in Britain showing 40% favoring Sharia law would be helpful in dispelling the great hijacking of Islam myth. Let's see, e.g. a poll showing how many European Muslims think Rahman should be executed for apostasy.

Posted by: Caroline at March 26, 2006 4:49 AM

Islam is tolerant to women??? Tell that to the women who were murdered and oppressed in Afghanistan in the name of Islam. Tell it to any sane and rational person capable of forming an opinion based upon fact rather than abstract ideologies.

Of course what Mr. Blair is trying to do is win the muslim vote. Since there are now a lot of muslims here in the UK, and there will be more of them before long even if we assume no more move here because of their incredibly fast breeding rate. Is it not logical that he wants to be seen as putting muslim interests first so that not only the muslims themselves will vote for him, but the PC crowd that have brought into the same kind of bullshit.

Also I don't care what muslims were like centuries afo, that is irrelevant to the modern world. Even if they were once a peaceful people, it should be obvious in the light of the global terrorism network that is the Al- Quaida that this is no longer the case. The Western world should not be afraid to take necessary defensive measures, including heavy limitations on immigration from the middle east, if not a complete ban.

GothicBrit

Posted by: GothicBrit at March 26, 2006 5:41 AM

Howard, Fine & Howard (the upscale attorney's practice):

Thanks for the education! No, as you can see, I was no fan; otherwise I wouldn't have come up with the notion that it was an upscale attorney's practice! :-)

Anyway, anything for a bit of levity in this world, dominated as it now is with Islam and news of atrocities committed in its name.

Posted by: Mark Alexander at March 26, 2006 9:19 AM

Tony Blair scares me, he really does. He thinks the koran is progressive? Am I reading this right? He must agree that beating women and pushing walls over onto homosexuals is a good thing? How does marrying a six year old tally with being progressive? Maybe I read this wrong. Please God tell me I read this wrong.