The filth of judges should be jailed themselves. They must be related to the scum in a gown that condemned the notorious German cannibal to some nine years as well - German, too. Sounds to me like what passes for justice in Germany is sick to death with relativism. I know I have a temper, but I cannot remember the last time I was this angry. Nine years for deliberate murder???? For FRATRICIDE, which every system of justice in the world considers particularly heinous??? And his vile kin, whom everyone knows were in it up to their hair, set free???? Keep on killing, guys, keep on killing; we German judges are too enlightened to punish anyone.

Posted by: Paolo at April 13, 2006 7:25 AM

i think the present German culture is so decadent that it is one of the few cultures in Europe that I detest as much as the Muslims. Relativism is the norm in Germany. This is a country where people can argue on compassionate grounds to terminate the lives of those deemed worthless. Europeans, especially Germans detest inequality so much when they see someone who is terminally ill or handicapped their first instinct is to kill that person, but of course they whitewash it under the name euthanasia. And like you pointed out Paolo the Cannibal wasnt seen as so bad by the German Press, because apparantly his victim volunteered. What sick society.

I now understand why European culture is so open to Islam, both are death affirming societies. While the Judeo Christian tradition is life affirming.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at April 13, 2006 8:12 AM

I don't know if euthanasia is even legal in Germany (it's not even called euthanasia anymore, because Nazi Germany gave the term a bad vibe), but the whole idea of euthanasia is that it's _voluntary_ (doctors don't just go around killing people), unless the patient is declared brain dead and beyond recovery (even then it may require approval from the patient's family, but I'm not familiar with German laws). There's nothing immoral or unethical about euthanasia.

I think you're just spreading disinformation and propaganda, much like Jihadists and dhimmis, though I can't even begin to guess what your agenda might be. It's strange that at first you attack Germany for not punishing the killer enough, but then you say that Europe (or Germany) is a "death affirming society," which to me would suggest the use of capital punishment. By the way, Europe isn't a singular culture, it's a collection of several countries. I just decided to point that out because Americans, and now apparently Canadians as well, often make the mistake of believing that Europe is just one big country.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 13, 2006 8:34 AM

I know euthanasia is not legal now but the push is very strong in Europe and I guarantee it will be so in a few years. My point is that the lack of morals and values is what is at the root of Europes problems. Not having capitol punishment does not make them life affirming.there is not captial punishment because the continent is so PC they cant stomach punishing criminals.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at April 13, 2006 8:56 AM

Oh yeah one more point euthanasia is unethical and immoral

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at April 13, 2006 8:57 AM

For Germany this is a pretty strict sentence. The moron was a juvenile when he committed the crime and for juveniles the maximum sentence over here is ten years. For most Americans that is hard to believe but I would say the judge in this case dealt with it pretty well - as far as the circumstances and the law allow. A lot of Europeans would love to see the death penalty again, by the way.

Posted by: disillusioned_german at April 13, 2006 8:59 AM

I believe it is the case that the youngest brother is chosen to carry out this type of murder as his youth means he will receive a lighter sentence.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 13, 2006 9:07 AM

pissedoffcanadian:

Being againts euthanasia means that you support torture (if being forced to rot away for decades without the ability to move your body is not torture, then I'd love to know what it's called), which kind of makes you unqualified to criticise Europe for its alleged lack of morality. I also find it peculiar that you find capital punishment to be perfectly ethical, yet euthanasia is not. Would I be correct to assume that you are a devout Christian?

While I sometimes can't comprehend the short sentences that criminals receive in Finland, I also can't comprehend the overblown sentences that people can get in the US (and don't get me started on the additional punishment they can get in prison). Finding the right level of punishment isn't always simple.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 13, 2006 9:08 AM

"honor killing"

I wish people would quit calling murder "honor killing". There is certainly nothing honorable about it.

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at April 13, 2006 10:00 AM

It's so hard to believe that with muslims, blood is not thicker than water.

It's a shame that there is no love in the muslim world.

Posted by: freewoman at April 13, 2006 10:19 AM

Well I live in Europe and I don't see lots of people wanting euthanasia or mercy killing or whatever you want to call it. It seems to me that a few people think that we ought to talk about "assisted suicide" for the terminally ill who are in severe pain but even that makes most people revolted at the thought even when they wonder how they would cope in the same circumstances.

But this sort of murder for living her own life has got to stop. People who think that it is right just don't belong in a civilised society. I don't know about feminism but I know this sort of thing is against all Christian principles.

We don't have the death penalty because we were convicting and killing too many innocent people and because judges and juries and witnesses are just human and it is all too easy to make mistakes.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at April 13, 2006 10:50 AM

Dominic,

glad to see ya come back

Posted by: Patriot at April 13, 2006 11:11 AM

Dominic,

glad to see ya come back

Posted by: Patriot at April 13, 2006 11:15 AM

A sentence long enough for him to write out a copy of the Koran in his own blood and emerge from jail as an honored jihadist just in time for the initial Eurabian take-over of an EU member.

I'm betting on France to succumb first to the demographic/infil-traitor onslaught.

Because, what war did France ever win on its own? (Since Joan of Arc, I mean.)

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 13, 2006 12:09 PM

Post-War Germany is based upon the Original PC: the bending-over-so-far-backwards to rectify the sins of Hitler that they institutionalize and socially solidify the absolute utter preventive medicine against the slightest hint that the state might be showing signs of slipping back into Fascism & Nazism.

Of course, all rational people want to guard against the state slipping back into Fascism & Nazism, but sometimes the measures taken to prevent an evil can themselves breed new problems. In Germany's case, they have over the decades set in unalterable cement the idea that

1) the specter of Fascism & Nazism in the future -- against which we must all guard -- can arise only out of a Western state (this would effectively exclude Islam as a problem); and that

2) anything hinting of racism and collective discrimination must be immediately stamped out and forever guarded against through comprehensive institutional, legal and cultural measures.

Since most Muslims are non-Western ethnic people (the latest fashionable term being "brown" people) and since they adhere to a non-Western cultural group, this makes them doubly privileged for not only protection by the State against any would-be Fascists, but also for inoculation against the charge of nurturing Fascist tendencies themselves.

We thus see throughout Europe (since all Europe after the Second World War was affected by this institutionalization of the prevention of Fascism) the absurd paradox that anyone pointing out and criticizing Fascist type elements arising out of Islam will themselves be condemned as more or less Fascist. (A similar paradox exists in American society.)

Posted by: Television at April 13, 2006 12:27 PM

Jesus Christ supercop (and could anyone have a sillier pseudonym) - check out the situation in the Netherlands, where the murder not only of the old and the sick but even of sickly babies is legal. And with no obligation, either that the victim should have a terminal illness, or that they should accept to be murdered. It is widely reported that elderly Dutchmen no longer visit their doctors, for fear that they will be placed in the exit lounge. I cannot possibly imagine how anyone could oppose Islam for being murderous and find this sort of thing even worth discussing, let alone acceptable.

Posted by: Paolo at April 13, 2006 1:46 PM

Television:

Ironically, the only people the Europeans no longer feel obliged to bend overbackwards to accommodate because of the sins of Nazism are the Jews, whether they continue to live in Europe or have left for the State of Israel. Instead, they hate and resent them with a passion unless they are hysterically "anti-zionist".

Posted by: waterdragon52 at April 13, 2006 1:55 PM

I think the length of his punishment is quite long by European standards. Here in Holland, if you conspire to kill and actually kill someone, the max. time in jail is about 12 years.

I think it isn't dhimmithude, the traditional leftist (who were in control in Germany until recently) believe that if you set someone loose in the society, he will be formed by the society.

So, if a person kills another person, it is the fault of the society who made him kill and not of the person who did the actual killing. Then, if he was formed by the society who made him kill, the leftist believe, he can be formed back by the society to a regular person who has a job, kids, mortgage, etc.

I know, it is absolute and utter nonsense, but it is really something else than forms of dhimmithude.

Posted by: DrWolffenstein at April 13, 2006 1:56 PM

waterdragon52,

Speaking of politicians in Europe and the UK, did you see that Gerald Kaufman had called for sanctions against Israel?

I was surprised, since I knew that Kaufman was himself Jewish. However, it seems he has a history of making public attacks on Israel.

Wikipedia - often unreliable, I know - in this case was all too plausible:

Some, however, have suggested that Kaufman's attitudes to Israel may have been as much determined by his local political situation as to his angst over his Zionist past. There have been repeated attempts to unseat him by those hoping to capitalise on the large and growing Muslim population in his constituency of Gorton. At one point the Labour party expelled a number of Muslim members. A later Labour party enquiry found that these disenfranchisements were unconstitutional. In the meantime, Kaufman maintained his candidacy and despite his refusal to condemn the Iraq war kept his seat in 2004 with a respectable majority, perhaps because of his efforts to engage with concerns of his Muslim constituents around the Kashmir dispute.

I particularly liked the restrained and ironic tone of the final sentence.

Posted by: Yojimbo at April 13, 2006 2:08 PM

waterdragon,

Yes, this bending-over-backwards has almost bent full circle.

Posted by: Television at April 13, 2006 2:28 PM

Since Europeans don't impose the death penalty, honor killings deserve not nine years but 39 years without parole. I cannot imagine why the Germans are so soft on crime !!!!

Posted by: Nashville Gene at April 13, 2006 2:47 PM

Paolo, it seems you're right, I found a link about the subject at Wikipedia. Even so, this is just a case of bad practise, and not an inherent flaw in euthanasia. And yes, I do have a silly pseudonym (Google it to find out where it's from).

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 13, 2006 3:09 PM

Traveling in England, Theodore Dalrymple writes:

Of course I know that people have been saying this kind of thing for the last two thousand years at least – come middle age, everyone complains that it is not he alone who is falling to bits, but the world around him – but it just so happens that this time it is true. The fact is that in Britain, the young have imposed a de facto curfew on the old: practically no old person dares go out after dark, for fear of what or who he will meet and what will be done to him.
 
This is all the more distressing since the country is so obviously much richer than it was. One feels that material progress ought to be paralleled by moral progress. The fact that it hasn’t been induces – at least in me – a profound pessimism.
 
Another cause of pessimism is my difficulty in persuading my liberal friends, who are interested in every cause of crime except the decision of criminals to commit it, that the principal victims of crime are not the rich and strong but the poor and vulnerable. It is they whose everyday life is dominated by the fear of crime (often disdainfully regarded or dismissed as neurotic by criminologists). While it is true that most burglars are poor – E W Hornung’s Raffles is so rare that, despite having met thousands of burglars in the course of my career as a prison doctor, I have never met a single one like him - it is also true, of the British burglar at least, that he is rather lazy or unimaginative: he steals mainly from the people who live near him. Quite often, in fact, a fight breaks out in prison because two burglars meet who have burgled each other’s houses.
 
While on the subject, let me just recount one story to illustrate how seriously the British state takes the defense of the property of its citizens. I was looking through the criminal record of one of my patients in the prison and discovered that he had not long before been convicted for the fifty-seventh time for burglary. Since most criminals will happily admit, in confidence, that they have actually committed between five and fifteen times as many crimes as they have ever been caught for, it was quite possible that this man had committed more than five hundred burglaries. And what was his terrible punishment for his fifty-seventh conviction for burglary? A fine of $85, presumably paid for from the proceeds of his activities.
 

Posted by: Rebecca JW at April 13, 2006 3:58 PM

supercop: Thou shalt not kill. End of story. Euthanasia means encouraging a person to feel worthless in order to get his/her consent to kill him/her off and stop spending money and effort on them. And that is pure stinking evil.

Posted by: Paolo at April 14, 2006 10:50 AM

No, euthanasia means that if you want to kill yourself yet aren't capable of doing it, you will be assisted. How would you feel if you were paralyzed from the neck down (or something to that effect), unable to do anything for the rest of your life, forced to rot in bed for decades? Some people accept it and adapt, but some don't. Forcing them to keep on living is torture, and by opposing euthanasia you accept and support torture. What about brain dead patients? Is it not a complete waste of time and resources to keep them artificially alive?

If someone close to me wanted euthanasia, I'd kill him/her myself, no question about it. "Thou salt not kill" is complete nonsense because it's far too simplified to have any relevance in the real world. I suppose you're againts police and military forces as well.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 14, 2006 4:46 PM

Jesus christ supercop I truly believe in the power of human will. If people lose the will to live they will not live much longer. I agree with Paolo he has worded it perfectly.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at April 14, 2006 11:03 PM

The bastard who killed his sister was the youngest of the brothers.

He was chosen -because- he was underage at the time. Mohammedans may seem stupid at times, but they are not THAT stupid.

They know very well how the infidel laws and the system works.

That is not to say that changes to the law and harsh sentencing should not be considered and implemented in these cases.

But show me a place, any place in the western world, where the creeps don't get off lightly if they are still juveniles at the time when they commit the crime!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 15, 2006 1:57 AM

supercop: one thing I know about is disabled people. Not a single one of them wants to die - except people who have had their noses rubbed into the GREAT SACRIFICES that their damned families have made for them, and how TERRIBLY they are affected by their condition. Show me one disabled person who wants to die, and I'll show you one greedy and heartless family.

Posted by: Paolo at April 15, 2006 1:52 PM

I doubt anyone will ever read this, since this entry hasn't been touched since April 15th. Regardless...

You are twisting reality to suit your anti-euthanasia agenda. The notion that there's not a single disabled person on the planet who doesn't wish to die (of his own will) is absolutely preposterous. If someone wants to die because he doesn't feel like being paralyzed for the rest of his life (or blind, or whatever), that's his choice. You can't deny him the option just because you've deluded yourself into thinking that nobody could possibly want to die without being manipulated into it.

Many people kill themselves for far lesser reasons, without anyone encouraging them to do so.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 19, 2006 10:24 AM

Hi,
I'm German myself and I am disgusted by the thought that Hatun's elder brothers get away as free men. (The prosecutor wants an appeal, though, so the last word has not been spoken yet.) As for the 9 years for the actual murderer...that is not bad, given that the highest possible sentence is 10 years for juvenile delinquents. However, the court had the chance to treat him as an adult as he was over 18, but found him too immature to be considered an adult. It's the usual practice that the court decides if young people between 18 and 21 are treated as adults or not.
But still, for Germany, even those 9 years are a positive surprise. Here, muslim offenders who commit "family violence" crimes are treated very leniently, and many - of course mostly male - judges used to consider the criminals' "cultural background" mitigating circumstances, so that the occasional murderer who boasted about slaughtering his wife in front of the court "for the family's honour" was only charged with manslaughter and sentenced to a few years, or e.g. muslim men who beat their wives and daughters got off better than german men who did the same.
This is horrible and unjust, because it is a slap in the face of muslim women - all women. I think what our government needs to understand is that we shouldn't show false tolerance towards cruel and inhuman traditions like "honor" killings and forced marriages, but we should support the muslim girls and women, help them out of their families if they are threatened, open shelters and offer alternatives. Even at school there should be information about that topic. The girls and women need to feel that they are safe here and protected. Or they should be.
The first article of the german constitution reads: "The dignity of a human being is untouchable." For good reason. And that goes for all human beings. Even women. And muslim women. And if their husbands and brothers don't understand that, there is no place for them here.
I'm glad we have quite lenient laws in Germany, but for those bastards, who even laughed about their sister's death and called her a whore, they should re-introduce the death penalty. At least I hope the prosecution still succeeds in their appeal and Hatun's murderers are locked away forever.
A man of honor protects his daughter or sister and doesn't threaten her. And by hurting, let alone murdering her, they lose the little rest of honor they had. I hope they'll go to hell.

Nicole

Posted by: nicolefromgermany at April 20, 2006 6:58 PM