When will those "people" grow up and join the human race?

mohamid is repulsive to me and mine

Posted by: CelticCoyote at April 23, 2006 9:52 PM

Never heard of St. George before, but thanks to the Dhmmis, I now have a new champion. I can't help but feel I was born a 1000 years too late.

Of course, if Fjordham is right, there might be some excitement on the horizon sooner than we think.

Posted by: thethinker at April 23, 2006 9:55 PM

"Chris Doyle, of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, says the red cross is an insensitive reminder of the Crusades. He said: "It is offensive to Arabs and muslims, including many from non-Arab countries.They see the Crusades as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam."

Yeah, well I see the prophet Muhammad and the Koran itself as an insensitive reminder of Muslims launching a brutal holy war against Christians and other infidels who, by the way, predated Muhammad. So you guys get rid of any reference to Muhammad (especially that noxious PBUH) and with him the Koran which both started this "holy war" business in the first place, and then we'll talk about St. George and the red cross.

Posted by: Caroline at April 23, 2006 9:58 PM

Typical BBC, mentions that St George 'may have been a Turk'. Just because this blessed Saint was born in Asia Minor, this does not make him a Turk. There were no Turks in Asia Minor in 3rd and 4th centuries.

Posted by: PAS at April 23, 2006 9:59 PM

Does Chris Doyle buy the line that an Arab must be a Muslim? This is flat out ignorance. Every other Arab Christian I know is named George. The sight of his martyrdom, though this is disputed, is a mosque in Beirut. St. George may be one of the friendlier symbols to create a bridge with the Arab world.

Posted by: JCameron at April 23, 2006 10:23 PM

All a smokescreen on the part of People for the Ethical Treatment of Dragons.

Seriously, though, this is insane, and another front in the jihad's campaign against Jahiliyya: All infidel symbols, customs, history, heritage, and values just have to go. Pre-Islamic = trash = gone.

But while attacking St. George's cross is a brazen escalation in that culture war, it may be a strategic mistake. One would think they'd let the more insidious erosions of Western civilization go on a bit more before this kind of move.

Attacking such a fundamental, identifying symbol of England as this is seems like it would be a decent candidate for being a tipping point-- possibly, hopefully, if the "Muslim community" ever pesters enough about it.

Posted by: Shinoliite at April 23, 2006 10:36 PM

For me it's a toss-up for patron saint of JihadWatch between St. George and St. James the Moor Killer. Perhaps we could adopt St. George for JihadWatch and Santiago Matamoros for DhimmiWatch?

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at April 23, 2006 10:50 PM

Bearing in mind the other things that they might find offensive to their sensibilities, I guess we ought to burn history books, too, because they're a painfull reminder of the truth.

Posted by: Elliot at April 23, 2006 10:55 PM

So anything said, or any depiction of, Mohammed is verboten, may be punished by death, rioting, or whatever the hordes feel like on any given day. But any Christian symbol, historical figure, or Jesus can be attacked endlessly?

That's the new reality as I see it.

It's not unfair to say dhimmitude has now become global policy at every level. This information revolution is not at all where I saw it going 10-20 years ago.

Until someone in power has guts we're going to keep losing battle after battle.

Chris Doyle, of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding

The Fourth Reich (EU) is going to get all our children, and children's children, enslaved if somebody doesn't put a stop to Frankenstein's social experiment.

What doesn't offend Muslims other than conversion, dhimmitude, or death?

Posted by: Beagle at April 23, 2006 10:58 PM

Shinolite, the islamics are not too smart. They keep pushing and pushing without any regard to strategy. I am hoping for a point of critical mass, or a tipping point as some call it, soon, long before they become powerful enough to win by sheer force of influence.

Posted by: thethinker at April 23, 2006 11:07 PM

How about putting up Uccello's "St. George and the Dragon," in either the National Gallery version, or that found in the Musee Andre-Jacquemart,just reopened this decade? I'd vote for the latter. And not because it is less accessible, less commonly reproduced.

Posted by: Hugh at April 23, 2006 11:12 PM

The way I read this, the Dhimmis/Muslims are rooting for the Dragon.

If and when it gets to Ireland, St. Patrick would be verboten, and Muslims will be lamenting Irelands loss of snakes.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 23, 2006 11:31 PM

St. George is actually considered a saint by Palestinian Muslims, who call him al-Khadr and see him as God's martyr. They pray to him during times of crisis at the Dome of the Rock.

Posted by: jehana at April 23, 2006 11:50 PM

A message to our English friends: if the April 23 celebrations gets banned in your country, come to Bulgaria on May 6 when we celebrate St. George the Victory-Bringer with a military parade in the centre of Sofia! You can see the Bulgarian Patriarch bless the flags of the troops and toast to the feast with nice Bulgarian wine!

Posted by: highbg at April 24, 2006 12:19 AM

Since everything that's infidel makes muslims angry...I wouldn't worry about it. It makes me angry to see a mosque and women in tents.

I say ...MORE CROSSES EVERYWHERE!!!!

Posted by: freewoman at April 24, 2006 12:20 AM

Let me add a link to the MoD webpage on the May 6 holiday: http://www.mod.bg/en/praznik.html.

Posted by: highbg at April 24, 2006 12:37 AM

"St. George is actually considered a saint by Palestinian Muslims, who call him al-Khadr and see him as God's martyr."

Muslims also conflate St. George with the Prophet Elijah; probably one of the many garbled mythomemes that found their way into the Koran from the larger streams of pagan, quasi-gnostic, apocryphal, apocalyptic, and pseudepigraphical sources roiling throughout the Ecumene at the time that Mohammed and his heirs were mythologizing (when they weren't hectically expanding, conquering and mass-murdering).

Posted by: Television at April 24, 2006 1:16 AM

Why not simply tell Muslims that we find their crescent symbol just as repugnant as it was the symbol of Islamic barbarianism that slaughtered myriads in Europe during Islam's centuries-long conquest of Europe, which predated the Crusades and which lead to the need for the Crusades in the first place?

Simple enough, isn't it?

Posted by: Shy Guy at April 24, 2006 1:32 AM

St George definately went places. I have heard of an Indian doctor who credits his escape from kidnappers to the dragon slayer. And a picture of St George is also talismanic against snakes whatever the skeptics say.

Posted by: ivan at April 24, 2006 1:46 AM

It's a shame this thread did not appear until after I went to bed last night.
I had spent the earlier part of the day at a St George's Day parade in the seaside town where my in-laws live.
There are more and more celebrations of St George's Day in England these days, encouraged by our brothers and sisters in the rest of the UK who celebrate the days of St David, St Patrick, St Andrew, St Piran, etc with vigor.
I hope to write a little more there, later.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 24, 2006 3:15 AM

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id=141
I am giving up on this neat link device!

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 24, 2006 3:31 AM

Chris Doyle, of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding.

The man is just a parrot. What else would you expect given his paymasters?

St George and the celebration of Englishness has been under attack as long as I can remember because of it's reminder of conquest, empire and English pride. That's not seen as acceptable in our multi-cultural society you see.

The English acoording to the likes of Chris Doyle should be on their knees begging.......we are so so sorry.......so sooooooo sorrrrry.

But alas the celebration of St George and Englishness is on the rise. As a civilising influence on the world the English/British have nothing to be ashamed of.

Posted by: Turbinehead at April 24, 2006 3:41 AM

Chris Doyle. Chris, that is Christopher. Ought he not to alter his own name before he suggests that England alters her patron saint?

(Mind you, from personal experience - beware anyone called Doyle. The name comes from an old Gaelic word meaning "dark", and some members of the lineage certainly fit it.)

Posted by: Paolo at April 24, 2006 4:26 AM

Chris Doyle, of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, says the red cross is an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

Then evidently the crescent will be an "insensitive reminder" of jihad and Muslims had better stop using it.

beware anyone called Doyle. The name comes from an old Gaelic word ...

Well, as he's sticking his oar in on "Arab-British Understanding" he is, presumably, a Briton. But if he has, like many Britons, relations in Ireland he ought to be aware that they wouldn't be allowed to wear their national colour - green - under Islamic rule, since that colour is reserved to Muslims. That's another reminder, as if any were needed, that this nonsense must stop now. In the end, infidels stand to lose not just this or that but all their symbols and their whole culture if they will not call a halt.

This process has more-or-less already taken place in places like Indonesia, as readers of V. S. Naipaul's Beyond Belief will know. The paradox is that Muslim Indonesians will prate about "imperialism" by which they mean the Dutch while being so thoroughly the victims of Islamic (and hence Arab) cultural imperialism that they don't even perceive it. (See, especially, the last paragraph of Chapter 4.) The Dutch, actually, caused this cultural imperialism to be held at bay for awhile, so that the animist and Hindu-Buddhist elements of traditional Indonesian culture were saved for awhile. Much thanks they've got.

Posted by: Yojimbo at April 24, 2006 4:51 AM

Chris Doyle, from the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding reared his ugly head in an earlier post on this site.

The Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding seems to think any misunderstandings are on the British side.

Posted by: Interested at April 24, 2006 4:59 AM

Well, Saint George (São Jorge) is also the patron saint of my country Portugal. I was under the impression that he was chosen because of the deep ties between England and Portugal that were forged in the mid-XII century during the crusades, which makes me think that Saint George had a special relevance in Britain for quite some time prior to the XIV century.

"São Jorge, Portugal" became as much of a battlecry on this side of the peninsula as much as "Santiago, Castilla" on the other. Sad are the days when we allow ourselves to place our own heritage in check in the name of PeeCee. Hopefully Scotland will be more keen to protect her patron saint.

Posted by: cruzado at April 24, 2006 5:03 AM

I'll wear my cross with pride.

Posted by: Razorskarr at April 24, 2006 5:12 AM

Here is a fine article on St George: http://www.britannia.com/history/stgeorge.html
It also says that the Roman Catholic Church did not abolish him (which I had thought was the case)

Posted by: philiph35 at April 24, 2006 5:27 AM

"an ill-favoured thing, sir, but mine own"
As You Like It Act V Scene IV

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id=320

St George's Day is also Shakespeare's birthday and the anniversary of his death, so do all excuse me.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 24, 2006 5:28 AM

I do like your link Philiph.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 24, 2006 5:38 AM

I'm really sorry, Robert, but on second look it seems that you have resurrected an old piece of news. The BBC story first appeared on Sunday, 21 April, 2002, 09:06 GMT 10:06 UK
"St George comes under fire" ...
http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/england/1937546.stm

Posted by: highbg at April 24, 2006 6:06 AM

More demands from the Islamists!

A lesson needs to be learnt.
Any attempt by Britain to defend itself against islamic attacks or demands is itself an An attack on Islam- which could lead to further reprisals or attacks.
So therefore a policy of total appeasement is adopted by the British.
In the event of an islamic attack on british soil it is the duty of the media to divert blame from islam. Socio econmic reasons must be found and the blame laid squarely at the feet of an "uncaring government". Those who do not comply with the FO regulations can be labelled as zionist influenced media or right wing neo cons.
they must be seen by islamists to be discredited as deviants.
Firebrand clerics such as Qaradawi are given the red carpet treatment in the hope that such welcomes will induce them to persuade their miltant followers not to attack London.
Militant that should never have been allowed into GB but for the idiocies of Foreign office policies which has turned GB into the terrorist capital of europe.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at April 24, 2006 6:43 AM

Could it be because the feast day of the above saint is today and that this saint fighting the dragon, the Muslims know that the dragon represents Islamism.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 24, 2006 6:46 AM

A comment above reminds me I've yet to see a review anywhere of Melanie Phillips new book, Londonistan.

Anyone else? Anyone got links if there are any reviews out there?

Posted by: Yojimbo at April 24, 2006 7:06 AM

Just another attempt to undermine anything un-islamic. They know that our government are weak willed useful idiots who will sell out thier own people so as not to lose the muslim bloc vote and they are milking it for all it's worth. Perhaps we should ban the koran as it was that which gave the inspiration for the 7/7 bombings and I find THAT insulting. In fact the koran incites racial hatred so really should be banned. These people are getting beyond a joke in my country. This is nothing more than the ongoing islamic invasion of the UK. Until we see a strong move from our government, or better, a strong government, we will continue to see this type of behaviour. Integrate or leave. Don't pretend to integrate until you are strong enough to take over the country as instructed by mohamed. We cannot continue give people who have the destruction of this country forefront on their minds a voice, they need to be removed immediately. Multiculturalism is to blame, it is nothing more than an excuse to live off of a country whilst never integrating; adding nothing to it and draining its resources until it is ripe for takeover.

Posted by: DaveMate at April 24, 2006 7:06 AM

The Telegraph names what it calls (ominously) key battlegrounds in the forthcoming local elections.

Much has been made of polls that show a shift of (unsurprisingly) nervous working-class voters from Labour to the BNP, but it seems that George Galloway's socialist-Islamist party Respect is also poised to make gains:

In Tower Hamlets, the loss of Oona King's Bethnal Green and Bow seat to George Galloway last year suggests that Respect could gain at least nine councillors in predominantly Muslim areas, and perhaps even the ward of Shadwell, solidly Labour since 1919. With the Lib Dems strong in the north, and the Conservatives likely to take all six councillors for the Isle of Dogs, Labour will lose this borough.

Local elections used to be about the drains, but there is more going on here.

Posted by: Yojimbo at April 24, 2006 7:20 AM

St. George(Sveti Djordje) is revered by Serb people. That very icon above is seen in every church, sold in every bookstore, displayed prominently in many households and hung from key-chains necklaces and rear-view-mirrors. As well as being the patron saint of all Serbian Roma, his saint's day(Djurdjevdan) is a national holiday celebrated with much feasting, drinking and the obligatory crossing with three fingers- this saint's day being most likely an example of some pre-Christian pagan fertility rite; as any account of a long day and very long night spent honouring St. George could be lifted from Euripides' THE BACCHAE- what with the plum brandy, the gypsy brass circle-dance and the sporadic gunfire.

Patron Saint of Jihadwatch? I'd better stock up on vitamin B-9, Tylenol and of course Euripedes, Sophocles and Aeschylus to make sense of the many long days and very long nights to come.

Posted by: hasan salami at April 24, 2006 8:41 AM

Every Lebanese household has a copy of that icon. But we use aramean, greek and Latin letter (generally it's a combination of two out of three alphabets). This one is Greek, obviously.

Posted by: Syriacs Are not Arabs at April 24, 2006 10:18 AM

UPDATE: My apologies. I see this is a 2002 BBC piece. I always check the dates, except when I don't.
I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who ever made that mistake. I was searching Google and found an article with the same date, just a couple of years old...it really is an easy mistake to make. (I look now to see what year)

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 24, 2006 10:39 AM

It seems this site and CatholicReport.org are the only places that carry news about Christians coming under attack from Jihadists, or in this case the rare instance in history of Christians defending themselves from attack!

Posted by: Dave at April 24, 2006 11:20 AM

St. George, patron of Jihadwatch?

I believe his resume states that he has experience managing dragons. Just the thing. Excellent choice.

Posted by: Chatillon at April 24, 2006 11:33 AM

There is a lovely site based around the following URL. Anyway I enjoyed it.

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/stgeorge.html

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at April 24, 2006 12:34 PM

Hi Robert
Thank you for remembering St Georges Day. Perhaps we should also celebrate October 10th as Charles Martel day? After all, other holidays (eg Hannukah) celebrate - at least in part - military victories. Perhaps you could sell some Hammer T-shirts.

Anyway just to let you know that I have recently reposted some sound clips and photos of the Free Speech demo in Trafalgar Square, London on 25th March 2005. These included the full speeches of the last 2 speakers (Libertarian Alliance and Freedom Association) which aren't in the http://www.littleatoms.com/audio.htm" target="_blank">little atoms broadcast.
Also, we have a couple of clips of the anti-Sharia Law demo last year 8th Sept outside the Canadian High Commission. We will continue to update these and others as we rebuild the blog. Hopefully, it won't be too long before the webmaster has the site up.

Thanks for all your work. It is good to have people like you who have studied the Koran - as many of us at One Law For All were forced to, even at University. If you have actually read the Koran, and particulalrly if you have lived under its diktat, you don't tend to fall for the 'religion of peace' nonsense. Prime Minister Blair claims to have a Koran at his bedside. He clearly hasn't read it properly judging by the way he quotes it.
Remember that while we might not always agree on every issue, or politically, it is refreshing to have free debate. You have free speeech is guaranteed in the constitution. Many of us - especially in the UK - do not. Our free speech is increasingly coming under attack and being gradually eroded by a series of insiduous 'catch-all' laws. I'll be posting more on the hypocrisy of this very shortly.
How would you feel about living in a country that you thought was 'free', and then realising you could be arrested for expressing what is in your blog or for a talk you give at a university campus?
Yours ever

Posted by: Damocles at April 24, 2006 12:54 PM

Hi Robert
Thank you for remembering St Georges Day. Perhaps we should also celebrate October 10th as Charles Martel day? After all, other holidays (eg Hannukah) celebrate - at least in part - military victories. Perhaps you could sell some Hammer T-shirts.

Anyway just to let you know that I have recently reposted some sound clips and photos of the Free Speech demo in Trafalgar Square, London on 25th March 2005. These included the full speeches of the last 2 speakers (Libertarian Alliance and Freedom Association) which aren't in the http://www.littleatoms.com/audio.htm" >little atoms broadcast.
Also, we have a couple of clips of the anti-Sharia Law demo last year 8th Sept outside the Canadian High Commission. We will continue to update these and others as we rebuild the blog. Hopefully, it won't be too long before the webmaster has the site up.

Thanks for all your work. It is good to have people like you who have studied the Koran - as many of us at One Law For All were forced to, even at University. If you have actually read the Koran, and particulalrly if you have lived under its diktat, you don't tend to fall for the 'religion of peace' nonsense. Prime Minister Blair claims to have a Koran at his bedside. He clearly hasn't read it properly judging by the way he quotes it.
Remember that while we might not always agree on every issue, or politically, it is refreshing to have free debate. You have free speeech is guaranteed in the constitution. Many of us - especially in the UK - do not. Our free speech is increasingly coming under attack and being gradually eroded by a series of insiduous 'catch-all' laws. I'll be posting more on the hypocrisy of this very shortly.
How would you feel about living in a country that you thought was 'free', and then realising you could be arrested for expressing what is in your blog or for a talk you give at a university campus?
Yours ever

Posted by: Damocles at April 24, 2006 1:03 PM

Granny Weatherwax, thank you for your kind words. Yojimbo, Londonistan only comes out here in June (May in the US - see http://www.melaniephillips.com/). So I guess there will not be reviews here until the end of next month at the earliest. I hope that Melanie will get more response than Eurabia did.

Posted by: philiph35 at April 24, 2006 3:49 PM

Jehana,
It is true that many "Palestinian" Muslims will pray to al-Khadr but that is part of the cultural folk-religion and not part of Islam which rejects all intercession.

The identification of the qibla at the Haram al Sharif in Jerusalem with al-Khadr and linking it to Saint George is because during Byzantine times there was a chapel to St. George near that spot. This was destroyed by the Muslims when they conquered Jerusalem but it survives in the local folk-tradition.

Al-Khadr in the Quran is in Surat al Kahf (18:60-82). In his journey, Musa (Moses) came upon a servant of Allah (known as al Khadr) and wished to follow and learn from him. But he told Musa "Verily thou wilt not be able to have patience with me!" But Musa insisted and they proceed on their journey. Musa was only permitted to follow al Khadr on the condition that: "If then thou wouldst follow me, ask me no questions about anything until I myself speak to thee concerning it.”Musa agreed to this."

The Quranic al-Khadr is actually thought to be the Prophet Elijah. The young Muhammed would here these stories from Christians and Jews and later mix them up when proclaiming Islam.

Posted by: Provoslavni at April 24, 2006 8:13 PM

Chris Doyle should NEVER AGAIN call himself an Englishman (assuming he is one). Whatever happened to Prince Hal's "For Harry, England and St. George"?

Posted by: Darius LaMonica at April 24, 2006 11:49 PM