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Muslim students want Indrek Wichman to be disciplined. The University, at least for now, is reminding them of a little thing called freedom of speech. Of course, given the pattern of events over the last few years in the U.S. and Europe, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if they caved before too long and reprimanded, suspended, or even fired Wichman.
Meanwhile, what did he say? He told Muslims mounting a Cartoon Rage protest that Islamic jihad murders were worse than a few cartoons. He said it in strong language. But what he said was true: everything he mentioned was true and has been reported here at Jihad Watch (Mr. Wichman, if you are a reader, my hat is off to you).
From the Detroit Free Press, with thanks to all who sent this in, here is the text of Wichman's email:
Dear Moslem Association: As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intened to protest your protest.I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey!), burnings of Christian chirches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavain girls and women (called "whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris France.
This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many, many of my colleagues. I counsul you dissatisfied, agressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile "protests."
If you do not like the values of the West -- see the 1st Ammendment -- you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.
Cordially, I. S. Wichman, Professor of Mechanical Engineering
And here are selections from the Free Press's story on the fallout:
An Islamic student group at Michigan State University demanded Monday that university officials publicly reprimand a professor whose Feb. 28 e-mail called on Muslims who don't "like the values of the West" to leave the United States.
That's a funny lead. I suppose they are demanding that Muslims who don't like the values of the West should not be free to leave?
Of course, what they really mean is that non-Muslims who realize that there are Muslims in the West who don't like the values of the West should above all not suggest that those Muslims should leave the West. Instead, non-Muslims should acquiesce peacefully while those Muslims set about to transform the values of those Western societies.
But MSU officials said there's little that can be done to punish Indrek Wichman, 55, a tenured professor of mechanical engineering, because his comments essentially constitute free speech. Wichman sent the message to the Muslim Students' Association of Michigan State University while it handed out free cocoa during a public awareness event about controversial cartoons that depicted Islam's founder as a terrorist....The Muslim Students' Association, along with 12 other student and advocacy groups, called Monday for the university to issue a letter of reprimand. They have met several times with university officials since Feb. 28 and went public with the e-mail Monday because the school had not acted.
Terry Denbow, spokesman for MSU, said Wichman's views in no way represent the university's views. But, he said, they do not violate the university's antidiscrimination policy.
"He was cautioned that any additional commentary ... could constitute the creation of a hostile environment, and that could ... form the basis of a complaint" under the policy, Denbow said.
He said he considers the comments "very inappropriate. And I personally wish he would apologize to the students."
To Farhan Abdul Azeez, an MSU senior studying human biology and the president of the student association, the e-mail was startling.
"Naturally, I was very upset. I was disgusted. All of those emotions went through my body," said Azeez, 20, of Canton.
In addition to a reprimand, the student group wants the university to implement diversity training programs for faculty and a mandatory freshman seminar on hate and discrimination.
"The best way to limit or to kind of defuse hate is through education, no doubt," said Maryam Khalil, 18, a sophomore from East Lansing studying journalism. Khalil is vice president of the association.
No, Maryam. The best way to limit or to kind of defuse hate is for Muslims to stop committing the violent acts to which Wichman refers, and justifying them by Islamic teachings. Those who do not commit violent acts should be directing their energies to those who are, and trying to convince them to stop. As well as working with non-Muslims to root jihad terrorists out of their communities.
If Muslims did that, they would find non-Muslims would have significantly less of what they think of as "hatred" for them, but which is actually a normal impulse for self-defense.
Denbow said discussions with students about sensitivity training are ongoing."We're not only willing to, but eager to listen to the students. Their commentary to date has been thoughtful," Denbow said.
Reached at home Monday evening, Wichman said he had regrets.
"I used strong language in a private communication that I would certainly not have used if this communication would have gone public," he said.
But he stressed the importance of free speech.
"I believe very strongly in free speech and free expression. It is one of the building blocks of this great republic in which we live. And any attempts to abridge or diminish it are serious matters."
The Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations also is urging the university to take "appropriate disciplinary" action, saying the e-mail creates a hostile learning environment for students.
I hope Wichman or someone there will point out that the true nature of CAIR.
"It was upsetting, yet sad" that a tenured professor could make such comments, said Dawud Walid, executive director of the council. "It's scary when you think about the power that this gentleman has" as a professor.Walid said that MSU has the academic and moral obligation to publicly denounce the e-mail, conduct a formal investigation and have sensitivity training on how to deal with Muslims on campus.
The university should "strongly and publicly disassociate themselves from the statement," Walid said.
Azeez said education is most important.
"There's a bigger problem here of racism and discrimination at Michigan State University. Faculty training and sensitivity training are very important to help prevent future incidents like this from occurring," he said.
I would like Walid and Azeez to explain what in Wichman's statement was false. The worst part of it is his reference to "you dissatisfied, agressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems." But CAIR and the Muslims at MSU must recognize that there are Muslims in the world -- and not a few -- who are behaving with aggression and brutality. And the slave trade exists today only in certain Muslim countries. They should be devoting their efforts to eradicating these evils from the umma, not to protesting cartoons and the unfortunate Professor Wichman.
Posted by Robert at April 25, 2006 8:20 AM
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I saw this story on foxnews.com this morning and sent an email to Mr. Wichman congratulating him on the courage to speak the truth.
Posted by: JanuaryMan![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 25, 2006 9:20 AM
I think we should stop prosecuting criminals. It's very insensitive to accuse them of commiting crimes. It creates a hostile environment for them, and they could become radical and angry.
Let us think on this.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 25, 2006 9:47 AM
Supercop - I wish you were joking. Or perhaps you are and do not know that this sort of attitude is really to be found among government advisers on crime in the UK. And meanwhile Britain has the highest jail population per head of any European country and cannot build jails fast enough to keep up with demand.
Posted by: Paolo at April 25, 2006 10:01 AM
Any information on which "12 other student and advocacy groups" are calling for a letter of reprimand?
Posted by: del at April 25, 2006 10:04 AM
Mr. Wichman is very courageous. There comes a time when you have to pick your battle. And the battle over cartoons is asinine.
They (muslims) are just proving to the world that cartoons are so much a worse matter than killing infidels , women and children, and everything else muslims do.
Our mistake as citizens was not protesting at the first beheading of an American citizen. If you noticed after 9/11 you didn't see a single muslim out and about for days. They were scared. They knew what they condone was rotten. Maybe our lawmakers and authorities don't really crackdown on muslims (illegals)because we as Americans seem lax because we don't gather in droves and protest.
Posted by: freewoman at April 25, 2006 10:07 AM
I took the cue from one reader and sent an e-mail to Professor Wichman at MSU for standing up to the Muslim protestors. I would encourage others to do the same.
Posted by: map at April 25, 2006 10:09 AM
"Sensitivity training..."
- from the article above
"Sensitivity training" about what? Is Professor Wichmman not entitled to express his opinion? Should he be "trained" in a Re-education Camp, like the kind set up by Communist regimes, such as that of North Vietnam for the benefit of insufficiently-enthusiastic South Vietnamese?
Anyone in the Administration of that college who does not stand firmly behind Wichman deserves to be discharged. Alumni, take note.
As for the whole sinister idea about this enforced "sensitivity training" -- one has to ask, what should one say about those who are raised up to hate Infidels (see 9.29, see all of Sura 9, see a hundred passages in the Qur'an, see several hundred of the isnadically "authentic" Hadith? Should one say nothing at all about their aggressive demands to change the laws, customs, manners, and understandings of non-Musliims, in this country which possesses a political and social order based on the Constitution, a Constitution which in every important respect is flatly contradicted by the Shari'a or Holy Law of Islam?
Prof. Wichman has nothing to apologize for. His colleagues should rally round. And so should the Amdinistraiton. No "sensitivity training" is called for, save perhaps for those Muslim students who have a hard time grasping the nature of free speech -- but had better start getting the hang of it, and accepting it, and all the other freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and especially by the First Amendment.
And anyone else who fails to understand sufficiently those rights has no business running a university.
Posted by: Hugh
at April 25, 2006 10:19 AM
I have a new hero.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 25, 2006 10:22 AM
Well, how do you like that, a university professor who isn't an apoligist for jihadists. I didn't think such a creature actually existed. With this discovery, can absolute proof of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster be far behind?
Posted by: Balrog at April 25, 2006 10:25 AM
"It was upsetting, yet sad" that a tenured professor could make such comments, said Dawud Walid, executive director of the council. "It's scary when you think about the power that this gentleman has" as a professor.
I pray that many more men of power and position will begin to tell the truth.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 25, 2006 10:28 AM
I run in a lot of 5K races in my area of the country. I printed some iron on graphics for a T-shirt and applied them. The front of the shirt has 3 flags (USA, Israel and Denmark). The back of the shirt has the infamous cartoon of Mo with the bomb in his turban. This weekend I will be wearing my T-shirt in a race. May be incentive to run faster.
Posted by: JanuaryMan at April 25, 2006 10:30 AM
One other note...I notice that the paper was so kind to print a very large photo of the professor, I guess so the offended muslims can identify him easily.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 25, 2006 10:31 AM
One thing that is encouraging is how more and more Infidels are speaking the truth about Islam and are not being silenced. The recent setbacks CAIR has suffered are proof that their intimidation tactics aren't working, if you stand up to them they will back down. That's because their actions will not stand up to close scrutiny in a court of law.
Still, as long as our elected leaders, Rip-Offlicans or Dhimmicrats, continue to speak that "Religion of Peace" twaddle, most Americans will continue to live in ignorance. But eyes are being slowly opened.
Cheers, Ralph
Posted by: Proud Infidel at April 25, 2006 10:52 AM
The Islamic Deception Machine that was created nearly 1400 years ago continues to be quite effective. There's a reason why not one MSU student would agree with Wichman, they are in favor of physical Jihad. There's a reason why not one MSU student will speak out against the worldwide violence of Islam, they are in favor of physical Jihad. The Islamic manipulation machine:
He was cautioned that any additional commentary ... could constitute the creation of a hostile environment, and that could ... form the basis of a complaint" under the policy, Denbow said.
Hmmmmm, He's the one who's causing hostility.
He said he considers the comments "very inappropriate. And I personally wish he would apologize to the students."
Ohhhhhhh, He's the one who's needs to apologize.
"Naturally, I was very upset. I was disgusted. All of those emotions went through my body," said Azeez, 20, of Canton.
Ohhhhh, the Muslim is always the victim.
"It's scary when you think about the power that this gentleman has" as a professor.
Hmmm, He's the one who's scary.
Walid said that MSU has the academic and moral obligation to publicly denounce the e-mail, conduct a formal investigation and have sensitivity training on how to deal with Muslims on campus.
Ohhhhhhh, He's the one who has to "denouce" "hatefulness."
Surrrrrre, the professor's the problem despite The worldwide list of Islamic Terror Attacks
Posted by: Report at April 25, 2006 10:54 AM
The article gives the impression that some administrators are already about to cave to these Muslim students demands.
Professor Wichman whose fortee is Mechanical Engineering, has some regrets to the harsh tone of his E mail. But where is the request for a dialogue, or discussion of what is true and what is not?
Why do we fail in these higher learning centers of academia that are bastions of freedom of expression to confront the good professors comments as to whether they are a valid representation of the truth or not?
Liberal leaning Universities have never had a problem with communists,Marxists, or any other leftwing groups who constantly bash the conservative foundations of America. Of course leftwingers do not have to proceed with such caution simply because in America no one is going to threaten them for their free speech expressions.
Case in point; the Jackson Heights, New York Islamic Thinkers group openly advocates for the destruction of Israel, and the overtaking of America by Islam and yet they are left to freely get away with it .
It is absolutely critical that professor Wichman get full support for his right to freedom of speech, otherwise the issue of freedom of speech on the campus of MSU is clearly a sham of the worst magnitude as well as any other university campus in America.
Has the University ever invited people like Ibn Warraq,Serge Trifkovic, or Robert Spencer along with Islamic clerics to an open forum on Islam? I kind of doubt it.
The big question probably is: Do the threats, and intimidation suppress the first amendment to the US Constitution? The answer--We will see.
Posted by: Mackie at April 25, 2006 11:08 AM
"In addition to a reprimand, the student group wants the university to implement diversity training programs for faculty and a mandatory freshman seminar on hate and discrimination."
When the Brain Police and Sensitivity Whores first introduced Political Reeducation Camps into American schools and workplaces I almost - just almost fled the country.
In the 19th century there was an alliance between liberal New England ministers (the impotent whiny over-educated types, especially Unitarians) and neurotic New Women who preached Purity, Temperance and the Innate Goodness of Woman in an incongruous mix with 'women's rights' and suffragism. To this day the bizarre mix of radicalism and Puritanism is a virulent strain in our national life.
The New Woman of the 19th century was too busy striking poses of moral rectitude and purity to notice the plight of women such as those who burned to death in the Triangle Factory fire.
These gals are still with us and running things - having fainting fits over 'hostile learning environments' while everyday thousands of girls are being genitally mutilated, beaten and degraded.
This warped elitist version of the Women's Movement was the petri dish that bred the virus of Political Correctness that may, in the end, destroy Western Civilization.
at April 25, 2006 11:19 AM
Prof. Wichman has simply expressed an opinion; he has not threatened anyone; he does not belong to any group that works to deprive US citizens of their rights; nor has he claimed that Muslims should be denied any right recognized by the university or the state.
But what about Muslim Student Associations across North America. Most of these groups are officially recognized by universities, and, hence, are obliged to function according to university rules. Almost all MSAs accept at least two common ideological principles: 1) the Qur'an is the final, perfect relevation from Allah and 2) the Sunnah provides authoritative guides for conduct in the accounts of the words and deeds of Mohammad.
And what do the guiding principles for conduct say about, treatment of apostates of Islam, treatment of women, treatment of non-Muslims, and treatment of homosexuals?
For instance: Sura 4:20-21: "Against those of your women who commit adultery, call witnesses four in number from among yourselves; and if these bear witness, then keep the women in houses until death release them, or God shall make for them a way. And if two (men) of you commit it, then hurt them both; but if they turn again and amend, leave them alone, verily, God is easily turned, compassionate."
Do MSAs advocate that homosexuals should be 'hurt' or 'punished' for sexual activity if they do not repent, as do all Islamic schools of jurisprudence (and some uphold the death penalty for such an offense)? Shouldn't MSAs be required to denounce death penalties for homosexuality in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Somolia and to explicitly reject the scritural basis for these laws? There are, of course, innumerable other texts and problems regarding direct threat to the rights of women, apostates, and non-Muslims generally.
Prof. Wichman does not deserve sanction for merely expressing an opinion, but shouldn't groups organized under university rules be held accountable for views that explicitly deny the legitimate rights of gays, women, apostates, and non-Muslims?
Posted by: JTF at April 25, 2006 12:02 PM
"'It's scary when you think about the power that this gentleman has' as a professor"
-- from the article above
It's true. Some professors in American universities are known to intimidate, mock, and otherwise make life most unpleasant for their students. Several of them teach in the Middle Eastern and Asian Languages Program (MEALAC), and complaints about their behavior (start by googling "George Saliba" and "Hamid Dabahi" or "Joseph Massad"). Don't think you can conceivably take a course on Islam, or anything to do with Muslim history, and dare to raise in class or anywhere else, such subjects as the dhimmi, and Muslim subjugation of non-Muslims. Nor should you show too great a knowledge of certain events in the life of Muhammad, or of the sayings of Muhammad. Best to stick to the Qur'an; better still, to the Michael Sells bowdlerized version, "Approaching the Qur'an: The Lyrical Suras."
Students who, nonetheless, enroll in these courses, should take careful note of what is said and how they themselves are treated -- especially when it comes to papers and exams.
One example: a student who graduated from in 2003, from a celebrated American university, and who had taken the course on Islam, reports that he was asked, on the final examination, to define the "Miraj." He answered, correctly, that the Miraj is the Night Journey of Muhammad, one which Muslims believe took place from a site referred to in the Qur'an as al-masjid al-aksa -- the furthest mosque -- and that on his fabulous winged steed, Al-Buraq, Muhammad within the space of 24 hours ascended all the way into the sky as far as the Seventh Heaven, and then returned to the same spot.
The grader (a Muslim) gave him a failing grade for that answer, and a C overall. The grader wrote on the margin: "Why do you say that Muslims "believe" this? And you didn't tell us that Jerusalem was the site of the Farthest Mosque. Why not?"
Now that blue book has been preserved, xeroxed, and some day it may come back to haunt that particular grader.
But the point here is thought-control and intimidation. Wichman was not intimidating students. He was not forcing them to study a subject and to report on it AS IF the student fully accepted the received Muslim version of events. He was expressing an opinion both rational and amply justified.
And if it was amply justified before, how much more justified is the opinion he expressed now that we have seen the hysterical and bullying and sinister reaction of local Muslims to it.
Posted by: Hugh at April 25, 2006 12:37 PM
"The recent setbacks CAIR has suffered are proof that their intimidation tactics aren't working, if you stand up to them they will back down."
This can be extended to the dog of islam in general. It will be "at your feet or at your throat" CAIR is in a particularly precarious position, in that it has learned that American courts of law are not generally susceptible to the kinds of physical and psychological intimidation that is the mahometan stock-in-trade throughout history. At this point, MSU's and CAIR's worst nightmare would be a huge defamation suit filed on behalf of Professor Wichman, should the intimidation turn uglier or the professor reprimanded or dismissed.
Posted by: Infidel33 at April 25, 2006 12:38 PM
Terry Denbow, spokesman for MSU, said Wichman's views in no way represent the university's views. But, he said, they do not violate the university's antidiscrimination policy.
"He was cautioned that any additional commentary ... could constitute the creation of a hostile environment, and that could ... form the basis of a complaint" under the policy, Denbow said.
He said he considers the comments "very inappropriate. And I personally wish he would apologize to the students."
Maybe the egregious Denbow should accompany the scowling Moslems to whom he kowtows on the emigration back to dar al Islam.
Two things:
1) What in the hell does "appropriate" mean in this context? That pointing out factual reality is not appropriate? Whoops. Stupd question college campus college professors Marxists echo chamber Fictive Reality.
2) The lack of rational discussion of factual reality is the poisonous re-agent needed to form a Fictive Reality, any Fictive Reality, whether around political economics, Islam, race relations, or the like.
MO HIJABS MO LEFT JABS MO BACK STABS MO POWER GRABS MO LAND GRABS MO
Sensitivity. Politesse. Viciously enforced self-censorship.
The good professor should stick to his guns and let this ridiculous thing run its course to the US Supreme Court. And, if I were him, I'd show up at my lawyers with all the books of Islamic scripture, history, and Sharia under my arms.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at April 25, 2006 12:40 PM
"In addition to a reprimand, the student group wants the university to implement diversity training programs for faculty and a mandatory freshman seminar on hate and discrimination"
I agree with one slight modification....the Muslim groups should have to go on an anti-discrimination course for Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, gays, Israelis, Madrid commuters, Russian schoolchildren, Bali nightclub partygoers, Dutch film producers......
Posted by: Celsius at April 25, 2006 12:44 PM
Man i love this guy...
Its the truth..
A. He told the truth about Islam...
B. He told the truth about how the muslims hate the USA
And he gave them a suggestion
If you hate the USA...
LEAVE..
Amen..
Posted by: jingoist at April 25, 2006 12:49 PM
Bravo for Professor Wichman.
His letter to the Moslem Association put the issue very clearly: How does a sane individual equate cartoons to blasphemy while ignoring innumerable outrages to human life, dignity and property performed in the name of Islam?
The professor was in fact acting as a teacher in this matter, working overtime to improve Moslem student cultural sensitivity to non-Moslems and raising Moslem student awareness of the rights enjoyed by everybody within the West. It seems the University administration ought to compensate the professor for his time spent up to this point.
Perhaps the University needs more professors of Mechanical Engineering and fewer of Social Engineering.
Posted by: Chatillon at April 25, 2006 12:59 PM
Yes, good for him.
Unfortunately, the EU is continuing its policy of appeasement, which means life in all the formerly sovereign nations that this corrupt, contemptible, undemocratic body is engaged in eating up stands to be further compromised:
Melanie Phillips:
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 25, 2006 12:59 PM
"He was cautioned that any additional commentary ... could constitute the creation of a hostile environment, and that could ... form the basis of a complaint" under the policy, Denbow said.He said he considers the comments "very inappropriate. And I personally wish he would apologize to the students."
Truth is no longer a defense when the thought police come knocking.
at April 25, 2006 1:05 PM
I wish it were possible to combat incidents like this with logic, facts and common sense, but it isn't. I wish you could just logically demonstrate that these apologists and dhimmis are wrong, but you can't. You can't reason with people who are, for all intents and purposes, clinically insane.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at April 25, 2006 1:10 PM
Just about the only thing I would have changed in the professor's letter is the "slave-trading" adjective. I would have put it in the "mundane things that offend me" paragraph instead. He has no proof that current members of the MSU MSA are actively engaging in slave trading at the moment, even if they do adhere to a cult that fully sanctions such activities.
Posted by: Infidel33 at April 25, 2006 1:24 PM
Tell the truth and shame the devil.
Posted by: MP at April 25, 2006 1:26 PM
GUADEAMUS IGITUR!!
I, too, sent the professor a congratulatory email, for his honesty and candor. The publicity around his action, and words, might give courage to other academics to speak up, as well.
Posted by: elcordobes at April 25, 2006 1:33 PM
Professor Wichmann, is a shining example. Others in similar positions should take note, and become an example of what freedom of speech really is. This is what will ( should) wake us up.
He has my full support and much admiration.
at April 25, 2006 1:41 PM
If the Muslims, and others, try to argue about the "slave-trading" comment, they should consult:
http://www.iabolish.com/slavery_today/sudan/index.html
AND read the book "Escape from Slavery" by Francis Bok (former Sudanese slave).
MSU should invite Francis Bok to speak at their campus!!!
Posted by: elcordobes at April 25, 2006 1:51 PM
I was utterly shocked when I read this - Professor Wichmann has a tertiar education and he can't spell!:)
Posted by: sarani at April 25, 2006 1:56 PM
Comment: CAIR and other entities want it both ways. When a Mideast studies professor is exposed for, say, pro-Palestinian propaganda by the likes of Campus Watch, then it's a matter of protecting powerless professors who must be protected from critics or else they all will be fearful to exercise their academic liberty. However, when an engineering professor sends an email (not even in class, mind you) that is critical of Islamists, then Islamists say the amount of power this professor wields is scary and they want mandatory sensitivity training in re-education camps, and disciplinary action, too. So, which is it, CAIR? Are the professors too fragile to learn from, or stand up to, criticism, or must they be censored because they are campus tyrants?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/011188.php
"It was upsetting, yet sad" that a tenured professor could make such comments, said Dawud Walid, executive director of the [Michigan chapter of CAIR] council. "It's scary when you think about the power that this gentleman has" as a professor.
at April 25, 2006 2:04 PM
"To this day the bizarre mix of radicalism and Puritanism is a virulent strain in our national life." - poetcomic
Actually, I believe the roots of modern day radicalism do lie (at least partially) in Puritanism. The Puritans began by rejected the worldliness of the Church and ended in binding themselves even more firmly to the world, so much so, their descendants are the material determinists of today, who admit no reality other than the material.
Bravo Professor Wichman! Stand firm.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at April 25, 2006 2:14 PM
Sarani:
Well lets just throw the baby out with the bath water!
Yep thats it! A few misspelled words and we certainly won't be able to give his E mail comments any credence at all!
And of course if that is the case, then why is the Moslem Association getting so upset? Usually the truth will set you free and of course if Professor Wichman is not telling the truth about fundamental Islam then they should eagerly welcome a forum of experts to discuss his comments and see if they have any validity to them or not. Seems quite fair to me anyay.
What do you think Sarani?
PS: Hope I didn't misspell any words or this comment will be irellevant I suppose!
Posted by: Mackie at April 25, 2006 2:14 PM
Assalamau-Laikum all,
As a result of the excesses of this professor, he should read the Koran & ask for ALlah's forgiveness.
I would also like him to carry a koran around and ask him to put it on the highest & cleanest shelf in his study.
On a daily basis he needs to surround it with incence and lots of TLC.
The professor should then stick with his study classes and leave Islam to muslims or hopefully convert after having read the Koran.
Posted by: Naseem at April 25, 2006 2:26 PM
Ah Naseem.
I'm glad to see you haven't lost your sense of humor. You say these silly things just to stir the pot, don't you!
Posted by: Chatillon at April 25, 2006 2:40 PM
Naseem, which part of his statement does he need forgiveness for? Which part of Mr. Wichman's statement is not correct?
Posted by: freewoman at April 25, 2006 2:43 PM
"Naturally, I was very upset. I was disgusted. All of those emotions went through my body," said Azeez, 20, of Canton
Thou does protest too much !
Posted by: Peter at April 25, 2006 2:49 PM
"Assalamau-Laikum all,
As a result of the excesses of this professor, he should read the Koran & ask for ALlah's forgiveness. " - naseem
or what?
typical muslim agressiveness, and you dont even know your doing it.
Posted by: chu - doc at April 25, 2006 2:59 PM
I think Robert Spencer's comment --
"The best way to limit or to kind of defuse hate is for Muslims to stop committing the violent acts to which Wichman refers..."
-- is a bit untidy.
His comment is directed at Muslims (university students at MSU, and specifically the Muslims in the Muslim Students' Association via its vice-president, Maryam Khalil) who are ostensibly not committing any violent acts. On the face of it, such a comment conflates Muslims who are ostensibly not committing violent acts, with Muslims who are committing violent acts.
What is the purpose of such a conflation? There are two possible functions of such a conflation (or there are two types of conflation being insufficiently distinguished in Spencer's comment):
1) to implicitly but indisputably accuse all Muslims, including the Muslim students at MSU, of committing violent acts
2) to implicitly but indisputably accuse all apparently non-violent Muslims, including the Muslim students at MSU, of being guilty of complicity with the violent actions of their fellow Muslims who are in fact committing violent acts.
Now, #1 is untenable. For one thing, if Spencer is doing #1, it is absurd to address the violent Muslims and say "if you stop being violent, we won't see Islam as violent", since Spencer knows that the violent Muslims obviously won't listen. For another thing, Spencer is addressing Muslims who are ostensibly not being violent, and telling them, as Muslims, to stop being violent: this would only serve to exacerbate the moral indignation of these ostensibly non-violent Muslims and their non-Muslim supporters and cause them to dig their heels in further against us and our supposed "Islamophobia".
But #2, on the other hand, is the more interesting accusation, but unavoidably raises highly subtle and complex issues. The subtlety and complexity to which #2 points is at the heart of our problem with Islam: how do we contrast, and connect, the two populations of Muslims (the violent Muslims and the ostensibly non-violent Muslims; the globally imperialist Muslims and the ostensibly non-globally-imperialist Muslims?). We have several options:
At one extreme:
a) Fuck an' nuke 'em all! They're all demons! Yee-haw!
At the other extreme:
b) The Bush/Rumsfeld/Rice Doctrine: Only a "tiny minority" of "extremists" are violent, and the "vast majority" of Muslims are "moderate" and "peaceful" and have a natural appetite for democracy which will easily fuse with their "great and noble" Islamic religion.
Between these extremes:
c) There is a spectrum of positions, ranging from
i) those that recognize there are Muslims we need to work with (whether or not those Muslims are authentic Muslims (reform is possible) or lazy Muslims (reform is not possible but partial Islam is a fact))
to
ii) those that rationally argue for a general, pragmatic suspicion of most or all Muslims based on insufficient means to distinguish dangerous from harmless Muslims (given that such a distinction exists).
It is the #2 option above --
2) to implicitly but indisputably accuse all apparently non-violent Muslims, including the Muslim students at MSU, of being guilty of complicity with the violent actions of their fellow Muslims who are in fact committing violent acts.
that could fall within the more nuanced spectrum of (c)(i-ii), and then the "guilt by complicity" (of the Muslims students with their Muslim brothers who are committing violent acts around the world) could be further fleshed out in all its complexity in political and cultural terms. But Spencer's comment insufficiently differentiates these nuances and invites confusion of various positions that, hopefully, he does not want confused.
Posted by: Television at April 25, 2006 3:00 PM
CAIR said:
"...create a hostile environment..."
Oh please-I am laughing so hard I am crying!
Um, so is that similar to the hostile environment at Wayne State? The one where Jewish students were scared to go to class because of abuse both verbal and physical from the Muslim students? Do you think that maybe Muslim students throwing urine on the Jewish kids created an environment not conducive to learning? The kind of hostile environment which caused a parent to create anti-dhimmi t-shirts such as the one which said "Infidel and proud of it!" in Arabic? I am just sure that eventually CAIR will become an advocate for those students who were hounded by Muslim students- after all, aren't the Muslim students the representatives of the "tiny minority of extremists"? I thought so.
Hats off to Prof. Wichman. I think that any of us who are within driving distance should organize a rally in support of him and of freedom of speech on the MSU campus. Any takers?
Posted by: libbysmom at April 25, 2006 3:02 PM
Naseemsostupid...
Put the koran in the outhouse where it belongs.
Surround it with bacon....Succomb to Islam?
Dream on nun...where's that belly dance?
at April 25, 2006 3:22 PM
Report...Great site by the way. Religion of pieces would be more appropriate.
Posted by: Siciliano at April 25, 2006 3:24 PM
chu says "typical muslim agressiveness, and you dont even know your doing it".....nonsense, all who know I know that I am not like that.
Chatillon says "You say these silly things just to stir the pot, don't you"!
Now come on...I see that you have not lost you french sense of humor either!
The thing is that the professori is not so humble himself. He forgets that the "conservation of momemtum" or Hooke's law...the things that he teaches his students ...these are all Allah Ta'alh's creation.
He may understand the odd few laws of mechanical engineering....but the ALL the laws of Allah have to be treated with care & respect including Allah's chosen peoples.
Hopefully the prof will come out of this a man better versed with these laws. ..He is just a bit misguided... I'm sure that Allah SWT will look favourably upon him.
Posted by: Naseem at April 25, 2006 3:25 PM
Well, I wonder why they want to do a cartoon protest. Do they not want the idiocy and violence of the middle east riots to die down? Do they want the normal world to continue to see how they worship a pedophile? Are they trying to prove to muslims in other countries they can disrupt the Americans? If they don't want the cartoons shown, why do they keep bringing it up?
Do they want the world to continue to see them as savage backward people? Are they so bored they feel they have to stir up problems?
Do they think only THEY have the right to free speech?
Oh, and btw, on the slave thing, there was the Saudi family in Colorado a couple of weeks back. And oh, btw, there was the 4 year old girl who was married to a twenty something year old man whose family used her as a slave. And a table top.
Posted by: freewoman at April 25, 2006 3:26 PM
the Free Press's story on the fallout:
"...a professor whose Feb. 28 e-mail called on Muslims who don't "like the values of the West" to leave the United States."
From the email:
"If you do not like the values of the West -- see the 1st Ammendment -- you are free to leave."
He DID NOT call on them to leave, he said you ARE FREE TO LEAVE." Big difference here, in my opinion. Didn't the Free Press(?) note this distinction?
And isn't it funny that a paper called the Free Press is so against free speech!
Posted by: ShortBoard Surfer at April 25, 2006 3:42 PM
Care and respect for Allah? I'm glad all of his rantings are similar...NOT! MOFO lived for violence and robbing children of their virginity. Get with the picture Naseem and convert to Christianity before you see Mohammed Atta in the Underworld...don't forget about Arafathead too! One big party down below sweetie...
Posted by: Siciliano at April 25, 2006 3:45 PM
Mohammed was just a pimp murdering gangster...Allah was one of his alter egos.
Posted by: Siciliano at April 25, 2006 3:48 PM
Folks, I am offended by cartoons too. I am mightily offended by the frequent Judeophobic, Israelophobic cartoons in the Arab press. Can Kofi Annan arrange a sensitivity session for Arab cartoonists so that they can become more sensitive to Jewish and Israeli sensitivities? By the way, the Arab press was publishing mightily insulting cartoons against us way back in the 1960s, if not earlier. One cartoon from Jordan published after the 1994 Israel-Jordan peace treaty showed Rabin [!Rabin, their peace partner!] as a Nazi.
Joel Kotek of Belgium wrote a booklet on Arab anti-Israel cartoons that came out 1 and 1/2 years ago, published maybe by the World Jewish Congress. An Israeli, Aryeh Stav, collected and annotated, with a theoretical esthetic commentary, a collection of Arab cartoons that appeared AFTER the Oslo accords. Stav notes a similarity to Der Stuermer cartoons by Phips. [his first name may be spelled Arieh?]. Stav's book is "Peace: The Arab Caricature."
Hope I'm not boring, but I'm also offended by certain professors, like Juan Cole, who say unpleasant things about my people and my country. Do you think he could take a sensitivity course so that I would no longer feel offended? So that my daughter would not feel offended and threatened if she were on the campus at Columbia or MSU or Yale or wherever?
at April 25, 2006 4:37 PM
From the email:
"If you do not like the values of the West -- see the 1st Ammendment -- you are free to leave."
He DID NOT call on them to leave, he said you ARE FREE TO LEAVE." Big difference here, in my opinion. Didn't the Free Press(?) note this distinction?
And isn't it funny that a paper called the Free Press is so against free speech!
ShortBoardSurfer,
Ditto,ditto,ditto.
Posted by: freetoBEfree at April 25, 2006 4:46 PM
Television,
Great use of logic, but you missed the larger point/context.
The Muslims were up in arms about those freaking Danish cartoons - the greatest defeat for the West since Constantinople in 1453, or the beginning of the EAD. The professor was contrasting that anger with apparent acceptance of violence done in the name of Islam. Robert was pointing out Muslims could improve their image by fighting violence, oh, let's say one tenth as hard as they fight sketches.
Posted by: Beagle at April 25, 2006 4:53 PM
"It will be "at your feet or at your throat""
A paraphrazed quote from Winston Churchil - spoken about the germans during the thirties - there are many parallels now - the majority of people , as then are either pretending that everthing is rosy in the garden or are muslim (nazi) apologists.
The good professor reminds me a lot of Churchil - he too was chastised by the press and establishment but we all know how it turned out in the end
3 cheers for the prof - he a fu.... hero and we need more of them
Posted by: johnmac at April 25, 2006 5:19 PM
Slavery, in all its forms whether of muslim women or non-muslims as in Sudan, or the law on Apostasy, is something that shames all humanity.
In south Sudan, the genocide and slavery of Christians and Animists, has been ongoing for 20 years.
Slavery is part and parcel of islam. Islam = submission = slavery. It is slavery for muslims, as they are effectively tied to a belief they cannot leave on pain of death. It is slavery for muslim women who are mere chattels. And it is slavery for us in the future.
Muslims are, and were the first slaves of this ideology that is islam. It is our unfortunate task in the 21st century, like it or not, to release muslims from the prison of the 7th century that they are locked in.
As Churchill recognised over a hundred years ago
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among menPosted by: DP111
at April 25, 2006 5:28 PM
Being allahs' chosen is a scary thought. More like the Devil's minions.
Posted by: freewoman at April 25, 2006 5:56 PM
Memo:
To anyone sending emails that are not flattering of Islam:
Make sure you add references to the documented facts to support your claims. Make sure your statements are worded carefully and with precision. If the statements are not accurate, and not supported by appropriate references, then don't make the statements. If you do not make these simple steps, most people will automatically assume that you are a bigot. Granted, some people will still assume that you are a bigot even if your statements are well-supported, but at least if your statements are well-supported you will (a) discourage your would-be opponents up front, and (b) make your would-be opponents look bad if they attack you.
Reckless statements are damaging to our efforts.
at April 25, 2006 5:57 PM
·You are responsible for bringing the reputation of JW to an appalling low.....bravo "friend"."
listen my muslim friend - no word - phrase or sentence written here could compete in any way to the vile actions committed every day by the followers of the violent sect called Islam.
I am sure that underneath you all know the absurdities than are the foundations for this barbaric sect.
Also you must know that you WILL lose - we in the west will triumph over a seventh senture desert cult and the latest re-birth of islam will lead inevitably to its destruction - you are a slave - as Morheous said to Neo.
And playing poker with the big boys with no hand can only have one result.
at April 25, 2006 6:11 PM
"As Churchill recognised over a hundred years ago
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men"
Over a hundred years ago -- and here we are now, with a President who repeats over and over again that Islam is a "great noble religion of peace".
at April 25, 2006 6:14 PM
DP111 says "Muslims are, and were the first slaves of this ideology that is islam. It is our unfortunate task in the 21st century, like it or not, to release muslims from the prison of the 7th century that they are locked in."
On the contrary, it has become our unfortunate task in the 21st century to prevent ourselves, our children and our grandchildren from being locked in the prison of the 7th century that Muslims themselves choose to live in. They've got a medieval mindset that comes from the texts of the Sira, hadith and Koran. That is how they live by choice, and that is how they want all of us to live (I say 'live' but it is a miserable existence they have in store for us if they get their way). We've been here before in Europe and handled it differently in times past. Europeans fought with fury at Tours and Poitiers in 732, Vienna (twice) in 1529 and 1683, Lepanto in 1571 etc, and there was a certain Reconquista which took 769 years to accomplish (now there's a word of warning as to how long it will take to free ourselves from despair and tyranny if we succumb to the dark forces of Islam). For us to succumb to Sharia a mere 100 or 150 years after World War II would be the ultimate way of insulting the memories of those who fought and died in that war to preserve our freedom, give freedom to those subjugated by Nazi and Imperial Japanese tyranny, and create a land fit for heroes for those who survived those six harsh years. 350,000 British and 400,000 American servicemen didn't give their lives for the West to fritter away their sacrifices and fall to Islamic depravity, and its time the traitorous quislings of the press and media were made to understand that.
Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at April 25, 2006 6:14 PM
Television:
Clever but too much so. Robert was simply saying that perceptions of Muslims among non-Muslims are dictated by observation of Muslims behaving consistently in a certain way and creating patterns, i.e. Buddhists are shown to protest war by throwing themselves on the ground and praying and meditating (I'm guessing) whereas Muslims--well, you can fill in the blanks.
Ergo, Muslims should change their behavior if they want non-Muslims to perceive them and react to them differently.
at April 25, 2006 6:14 PM
"Reckless statements are damaging to our efforts."
So who are you ? my mother!! and maybe its time we dropped the pretence - just what the hell is a reckless statement anyway - I dont think I could find language strong enough to describe what islam is how dangerous it is - its worse than communism and should be treated like the evil cancer that it is and any followers of it are fifth columnists - its completely incompatible with our life and values so muslims can not ever live in peace with us- I mean whet the f.. is reckless?
at April 25, 2006 6:20 PM
johnmac says "Also you must know that you WILL lose - we in the west will triumph over a seventh senture desert cult and the latest re-birth of islam will lead inevitably to its destruction - you are a slave - as Morheous said to Neo".
Ha ha....that's so funny. This website (and others) was born in desperation for unfortunates like you to make these comments...while you can.
Nothing can withstand the power of peaceful muslim dawa. You must know that every red corpusle of every muslim belongs to Allah as do our souls...this is a faith that can move mountains....Ask Robert Spencer, Hugh, Archimedes or the pig on this site....they will put you straight.
You are looking to protect your way of life ....and lots of peoples are worried. I hope & pray only to see the light & peace of Islam upon you & your childrens. They are more lost than at any other time in history and desperately require the discipline of Islam...and Allah SWT is most merciful in this way....please do not worry...Inshaalla --- all will be well.
And playing poker with the big boys with no hand can only have one result.
Alhumdulilla! And how right you are...Islam is the biggest boy of them all.
at April 25, 2006 6:31 PM
"
Ha ha....that's so funny. This website (and others) was born in desperation for unfortunates like you to make these comments...while you can. "
You just dont get it do you - we in the west have not paid attention to the islamic countries for centuries - this site and others like it are evidence of the slow awakening of the west to the islamic danger.
Just how will islam triumph - the islamic countries are the weakest on the planet - they have no advanced technologies - science - engineering - THEY HAVE NO POWER and - here is another famous truism-
IN THE END ALL POWER IS MILITARY - and islam - stuck in a seventh century HAS NO POWER!
at April 25, 2006 6:41 PM
Naseem the Maroon Muslim (apologies to Mr. B. Bunny): "...Islam is the biggest boy of them all."
Too bad for you the United States Marine Corps has a few good men . . . and women. Real women.
at April 25, 2006 6:41 PM
Naseem - if you really think that islam can triumph were the nazis and hitler failed - the incredible german war machine but a footnote in history now- get real - the only question is this
How will it end for the muslims - if you push us too far -too quick it could be very bad - maybe the worse that has ever been known on this small planet - I hope not for all our sakes but I have a feeling thats what your leaders want - they are nihilists at heart as is islam - a death cult - populated by cowards - it takes more courage to live life than to worship death - you KNOW that too but dont think tooo deeply about it - that after all is what islam is about - obedience - docility - nihilism!
at April 25, 2006 6:55 PM
Sarani,
Those are not evidence of not being unable to spell as you claim, they are called TYPOS!
This was an e-mail, not a letter. When someone types fast in an e-mail, typos are common and it is considered bad computer etiquette to call attention to them, since e-mails and posts like this follow the rules of verbal conversation, rather than formal writing.
Record yourself and your friends carrying on a conversation and when you replay it, you'll be shocked at how many grammatical mistakes everyone makes in verbal conversations.
I actually teach English as a Second Language (and spelling) but if I were judged by the typos in my posts here, I would be thought illiterate. When posting or e-mailing, few have the time to go back and spell check.
Posted by: Provoslavni at April 25, 2006 7:03 PM
Naseem can express any kind of wishful thinking she or he wants. The bottom line is that she/he underestimates the sleeping giant that is America. She/he continually misleads and paints an oh so rosy picture of the peace and beauty of Islam. But Robert blows her/his arguments out of the water with patient, daily, relentless application of the facts.
We know Islam isn't peaceful. We know it cares nothing for the lives and well being of the people who adhere to it. We know it encourages filthy sexualization of minor female children in the name of "marriage" (is that what you call it when some horny old Moslem bastard 'thighs' a young girl child, even an infant. Charming.) Hey Naseem, is that the kind of "peace" you're talking about? Do you think the true God wants you to stick your head in the sand when your best friend is encouraging her kid to blow himself up or kill his sister because she fell in love with some boy your husband didn't approve of? Not so peaceful, huh? How about dragging people out of their cars, beating them to death and then hanging them up on a bridge to swing while they are burning? The peace and beauty is really getting to me now.
No Naseem, you will go to your grave as frustrated as ever that Islam did not take over the United States. We've got some plans and tricks up our sleeves that aren't talked about on this website. But you keep talkin'...that way we'll know right where you are, when we are ready.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at April 25, 2006 7:15 PM
Naseem, I don't think that you have very many "friends" at this website. In the thousands and thousands of years that human beings have existed, why did it take so long for your islamic god to be discovered or invented as the case may be?
Balrog said; "Well, how do you like that, a university professor who isn't an apoligist for jihadists. I didn't think such a creature actually existed. With this discovery, can absolute proof of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster be far behind?"
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: Do you want to know where the honest professors in academia reside, I'll tell ya. They hide in the colleges of engineering throughout these United States. As I meet recent college graduates, I realize that engineering still contains the bulk of the no-nonsense, conservative types that one does not find in liberal arts or other places. Does the engineering discipline attract these kinds of people, or does the academic rigor mold them? Hell if I know. There is no room for biased, opinions in engineering. The laws of physics cannot be revised, repealed, or interpreted based on the prevailing political winds. If a rich Republican slips on an icy sidewalk, he will fall just as hard, and it will hurt just as much as it would a tree hugging, neo-com Islamic apologist.
Posted by: Pelayo at April 25, 2006 7:33 PM
Pelayo
This was true about my professor. This was in Computer Engineering, and he happened to be a Conservative, and active in the local Presbyterian church.
Given that, I wonder why the bulk of techies here in the Bay Area are such Liberals. And that too, Dhimmi Liberals at that.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 25, 2006 7:46 PM
Despite Naseem's confidence, I don't know a single American male worth the name who'd hoist his buttocks to Allah like a catamite waiting for his purchaser.
Despite the pusillanimity of some of our chattering classes, I have faith in Americans. In the end, we'll have have answers to fatwas, and they'll unfortunately come in gauges.
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at April 25, 2006 8:52 PM
Naseem, you still didn't answer my question. Which part of Mr. Wichman's post needs forgiveness? Was it the fact that muslims behead innocent people? Was it the fact they persecute Christians, or are savage to women?
Is it just the fact he spoke the truth about islam and it doesn't make any difference that he is right?
Posted by: freewoman at April 25, 2006 8:58 PM
Spirit of 1683 posted: On the contrary, it has become our unfortunate task in the 21st century to prevent ourselves, our children and our grandchildren from being locked in the prison of the 7th century that Muslims themselves choose to live in.
True enough- I take that for granted as I'm sure (fairly), we will win this war on that count. My point is that we do not have to be on the defensive. That just ceads the initiative to islam. Offence in combination with defence is better then just defence.
Posted by: DP111 at April 25, 2006 8:58 PM
Pelayo
"Do you want to know where the honest professors in academia reside, I'll tell ya. They hide in the colleges of engineering throughout these United States."
I'd expand that to hard sciences. The so-called "humanities," my own field, have become a thing of shame, an appauling mix of lack of critical thinking, political naivete, and narcissism. Most of the students marching against the new job bill in France were, unsurprisingly, "soft science" and an assortment of language and literature students. Those fields of formerly dignified and illuminating specific/specialized studies are now nothing more than appendages of anti-Western, anti-Christian political indoctrination.
at April 25, 2006 9:05 PM
Asked about his experience after a year of teaching in America, a famous Russian scholar of my acquiantance said: "A strange place. In America, the best Russian scholars are spread out at very small schools. They are not in the big famous schools." I leave it to others to judge the accuracy of that remark, or its possible applicability to other fields.
Posted by: Hugh at April 25, 2006 9:11 PM
I do believe that SOME verses of the Koran are not true ...but the Majority of them are.
Posted by: Naseem at April 9, 2006 04:00 PM
What mohd. did by marrying Aiesha at 6 & consumating at 9 was nothing short of disgusting.
Posted by: Naseem at March 18, 2006 07:17 PM
them statements are gunna cost ya,when you see allah
Posted by: patriot4 at April 25, 2006 9:14 PM
Economics may be one exception among the social sciences; the profs I had in core requirement classes were unapologetically non-liberal. This may result from working in a field that requires one to deal in facts rather than feelings.
If the hard sciences are also said to be a bastion of political sanity, mathematics is an oddball, perhaps for all of its abstraction and isolation. One of my undergrad degrees is in applied mathematics (youthful indiscretion-- much better now!), and I had a number of quite left-wing profs.
One in particular wasted an appalling amount of class time looning off about Bush and Ashcroft. It felt good to let him have it on the end-of-semester evaluation, for whatever it was worth. ;)
Posted by: Shinoliite at April 25, 2006 9:17 PM
Sofia, the lucky ones were butchered before they treated them as infidels. The unlucky ones saw muslim love in its true form, a punishment worse than death.
Posted by: Ronin at April 25, 2006 9:35 PM
"the laws of physics cannot be revised, repealed or interpreted based on the prevailing political winds"
-posted by Pelayo
That's an exellent point to be made in this context. If only the Quran, whose laws cannot be revised, repealed or interpreted based on prevailing trends of cultural advancement and mental evoulution, then maybe then maybe the world of Islam would not be the backward, sand-ridden slime-pit it is today.
Keep posting Naseem, you inspire inspite of yourself.
at April 25, 2006 9:45 PM
Check question number 16, Ahmadiya are not muslim and the pakistan government doesn't plan to let them escape.
http://www.embassyofpakistan.org/forms/FORM-A-print.pdf
Posted by: Ronin at April 25, 2006 9:47 PM
Confound it! In the above post, "If only for the Quran" should read - "If not for the Quran"
Posted by: hasan salami at April 25, 2006 9:48 PM
It's amazing to see how some Muslims who portray themselves as Warriors of Allah whine like little crybabies when they're doused with some truthful criticism. They never respond by trying to refute the criticism but they always seek some administrative repression of that criticsm from authorities. Perhaps they picked this love of repression from some of the countries they came from or from the religion they were indoctrinated into.
Thankfully, through the courage of this professor, some truth got out into the college community which is a rare thing in this day and age. I'm sure some students "learned" something who had their ears open and maybe more will have the courage to speak up.
at April 25, 2006 10:02 PM
Going to have to write this man a supportive email myself. I am sure he is going to be the target of sensitivity training, which will just reinforce his initial position. I know people who got along fine in companies and were forced to go through sensitivity training. They usually left the meeting hating each other.
Posted by: amana39 at April 25, 2006 10:03 PM
Not to worry amana, look how sensitive it made me.
Posted by: Ronin at April 25, 2006 10:06 PM
How dare Wichman misspell "intend" and "counsel"! That calls for a flogging! Seriously, it was a grievous error for him to attack the students personally ("you dissatisfied, agressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems"). His job as an educator is to serve all students, even the Muslim ones, not belittle them. Unless MSA members were actually involved in slave-trading, his choice of words was poor. Attack Islam--OK; attack Muhammad the warlord--OK; attack students, not OK. His letter would also have been way more effective with quotes or citations from the Quran; if (a big if) the Free Press had printed that, lots of readers would have known for sure the guy was on to something instead of just mouthing off. The best propaganda against Islam is citing authoritative Islamic texts.
Posted by: sceptico at April 25, 2006 11:43 PM
"I counsul you dissatisfied, agressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile "protests." "
Sorry folks, but I'm with sceptico on this one. The above sentence is over the top.
Too bad too. It was otherwise a perfectly valid assault on the RoP.
at April 26, 2006 12:11 AM
Ronin,
Thank you for the Passport form from the land of the "pure" (pakistan). A most excellent find. I didn't realize that the lahoris as well as the qadianis are forced to self-negate. Did naseems ever describe its personal experience filling out question 16 on that form?
Posted by: del at April 26, 2006 12:12 AM
Hey Naseem....have you been tip toeing out to the wild mushroom patch again?
Posted by: DCWatson at April 26, 2006 12:32 AM
What gives these arrogant muslim activists the right to come to OUR country, attend OUR universities, and dictate that WE undergo sensitivity training?! The Muslim Student Association is one of the most radical Wahabbi organizations in America, next of kin to CAIR. We don't need their political or religious input or their approval for a damned thing we do.
THEY should undergo cultural sensitivity training to learn how we live in America and as long as they are here, keep their damned mouths shut and go with the flow, or get the hell out. I am fed up with these insurgent fifth columnists and their incessant grievances, whining,protests, and complaints. Not a day goes by that some muslim troublemaker doesn't try to get a professor fired, university policies changed, force their vile culture and religion down our throats, or otherwise disrupt our way of life. Never has any minority group in this country created incessant conflict and discord like muslims do. They might think they are advancing the islamic agenda with their bully tactics and attempts to stifle free speech, but they are only soliciting more contempt for themselves and islam.
Posted by: Susanp at April 26, 2006 1:02 AM
I ENCOURAGE SENSITIVITY EDUCATION FOR ALL who fail to show tolerance for the opinions of others. MSA@MSU, CAIR-Mi, and other groups who are calling for a letter of reprimand for Wichman, need to receive sensitivity training in order to learn how to be tolerant of opinions they object to.
--------------------------------
ALL the laws of Allah have to be treated with care & respect including Allah's chosen peoples. -- Naseem
Incorrect. That is not how things are done in the West. You cannot force others to respect Islam, only to respect your right to practice it.
We need more Wichmans. He said what needed to be said.
Posted by: Jim The Kafir at April 26, 2006 1:23 AM
Where did the phrase "religion of peace" originate anyway?
Posted by: freetoBEfree at April 26, 2006 1:41 AM
The best propaganda against Islam is citing authoritative Islamic texts.
Posted by: sceptico at April 25, 2006 11:43 PM
Well, I don't consider "authoritative islamic texts" to be propaganda but regardless, even when specific passages from the satanic qur'an are quoted verbatim, muslims insist that they are being taken "out of context."
As for the professor's putative "attack" on the students, they are insurgent islamic activists with an agenda that threatens all of us. They are here to advance the Saudi Wahabbi scourge and disrupt our society. I think some of them are members of sleeper cells and I believe they are capable of anything.
Posted by: Susanp at April 26, 2006 1:47 AM
Each and every believing Mohammedan in the west is an insurgent and an enemy agent. Sure, perhaps the majority is -not ready yet- to go on throat-cutting, mass-raping, slash & burn Jihad warfare against their infidel hosts, but that only means they are biting their time until demographics are in their favor and the call for Jihad comes from the mosque.
Standard procedure for 1400 years, the pattern is clear.
Allah made booty 'lawful' for them, and infidel women are war-booty... Be ready, girls!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 26, 2006 2:58 AM
Where did the phrase "religion of peace" originate anyway?
I don't know, but I've a strong suspicion that the phrase got into circulation as a way of mocking this speech by President Bush:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
Almost every day there is some occurence that makes the phrase seem even more fatuous, so that anyone who still uses it in earnestness begins to sound like someone out of 1984.
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 26, 2006 4:48 AM
KARACHI: Sixteen-year-old Isma Mahmood was deported to Pakistan last month after serving six months in shackles and handcuffs in a prison in Saudi Arabia. Her crime: being raped by a Saudi man.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\04\24\story_24-4-2006_pg7_11
Religion of Peace? More like Religion of Rapists.
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 26, 2006 5:00 AM
ONLY NATURAL "PROGRESSION"
What the neo-Nazi fanatic did next: switched to Islam
Two faces, two converts - two Muslim extremists in Britain
David Myatt, who has changed his name to Abdul Aziz ibn Myatt, is a former leader of Combat 18; he now says Islam is the best hope for "fighting the West". Photo: BBC Panorama
A NEO-NAZI whose ideas were said to be the inspiration for the man who let off a nail bomb in Central London in 1999 has converted to an extremist form of Islam.
David Myatt, a founder of the hardline British National Socialist Movement (NSM) who has been jailed for racist attacks, has changed his name to Abdul Aziz ibn Myatt. David Copeland, who is serving six life sentences after three people died in his Soho bomb attacks, was a member of the NSM.
Myatt is reportedly the author of a fascist terrorist handbook and a former leader of the violent far-right group Combat 18. But now — in his mid-50s and sporting a red, bushy beard — he subscribes to radical Islamist views.
In an internet essay entitled From Neo-Nazi to Muslim, Myatt asks: “How was it that I, a Westerner with a history of over 25 years of political involvement in extreme right-wing organisations, a former leader of the political wing of the neo-Nazi group Combat 18, came to be standing outside a mosque with a sincere desire to go inside and convert to Islam? “These were the people who I had been fighting on the streets, I had swore (sic) at and had used violence against — indeed, one of my terms of imprisonment was a result of me leading a gang of skinheads in a fight against ‘Pakis’.”
In a later interview, Myatt supports the killing of any Muslim who breaks his oath of loyalty to Islam, and the setting up of a Muslim superstate. He describes himself as having been “staunchly opposed to non-white immigration into Britain and twice jailed for violence in pursuit of my political aims”.
He added: “I spent several decades of my life fighting for what I regarded as my people, my race and my nation, and endured two terms of imprisonment arising out of my political activities.”
But his belief is now that: “The pure authentic Islam of the revival, which recognises practical jihad (holy war) as a duty, is the only force that is capable of fighting and destroying the dishonour, the arrogance, the materialism of the West . . . For the West, nothing is sacred, except perhaps Zionists, Zionism, the hoax of the so-called Holocaust, and the idols which the West and its lackeys worship, or pretend to worship, such as democracy.
“They want, and demand, that we abandon the purity of authentic Islam and either bow down before them and their idols, or accept the tame, secularised, so-called Islam which they and their apostate lackeys have created.
“This may well be a long war, of decades or more — and we Muslims have to plan accordingly. We must affirm practical jihad — to take part in the fight to free our lands from the kuffar (unbelievers). Jihad is our duty.”
Myatt, who briefly became a monk after his second spell in prison, said that he became a Muslim while working long hours alone on a farm. He grew up in Africa, moved to Britain in 1967 and spent time living in Worcestershire. In July 2000 Searchlight, the anti-fascist magazine, described him as “the most ideologically-driven Nazi in Britain, preaching race war and terrorism”.
Myatt was the architect of the NSM and was involved in the leadership of Combat 18. He issued a statement in response to the Soho nail bombings saying: “Neither myself nor anyone else connected to the NSM can be held responsible for these bombs in any way. That responsibility lies with the person who constructed them, planted them and caused them to explode. Only that person, and God, know the motive behind the attacks.”
Myatt said that “all bombs are terrible and barbaric”, whether detonated by lone bombers, Western governments in Iraq or Zionists in Palestine.
“The NSM considered the creation of a revolutionary situation in this country as necessary since it wished to build an entirely new society, based upon personal honour, and believed this could only be done by destroying the dishonourable and corrupt society of the present.
“However, the NSM neither preached, nor sought to incite, what is called ‘racial hatred’. Instead, it strove to propagate the warrior values of honour, loyalty and duty, and make the British people aware of, and come to value, their ancestral warrior culture and warrior heritage.”
Myatt said recently that he had given up hope of a breakthrough by the far Right and believed that Muslims were the best hope for combating Zionism and the West. “There will not be an uprising, a revolution, in any Western nation, by nationalists, racial nationalists, or National Socialists — because these people lack the desire, the motivation, the ethos, to do this and because they do not have the support of even a large minority of their own folk,” he said.
“If these nationalists, or some of them, desire to aid us, to help us . . . they can do the right thing, the honourable thing, and convert, revert, to Islam — accepting the superiority of Islam over and above each and every way of the West.”
at April 26, 2006 6:01 AM
Yojimbo:
Religion of Peace? More like Religion of Rapists.
at April 26, 2006 6:11 AM
Sure, women are always to blame - even for crimes committed against them. I have re-examined my former statement in light of the ideology of "diversity", and I now feel compelled to recognize the truth of this.
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 26, 2006 6:57 AM
I should also like to add that I have just discovered that child prostitution in Iran is on the increase:
estrictions on women, along with drug addiction and domestic violence, causing many young women to leave their homes ...girls as young as 12 are now selling their bodies on the streets of Iran's cities. ...
Smuggled out of the country by criminal gangs, an estimated 100,000 women have been sold to brothels in the Persian Gulf.
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002018.html
Naturally, the False assumption that any of this has been caused by the Islamic Regime's pursuing the false idol of an Islamic society as opposed to paying attention to how politics, law, and economics are conducted in civilized societies in the West must be discarded.
This is quite clearly all down to the base and evil nature of woman the seducer, who is a threat to all true Islamic males - especially when her hair is not covered
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 26, 2006 7:13 AM
well l am offended by muslim students who demand so much, but give so little. the more they demand, the more we see their true desires, that is our submission to their death cult. hopefully this grand
Professor if he can stand up to the scrunity will give others the courage to do the same. Freedom of speech, and other Freedoms have been fought for, and many lives lost and hurt to attain these rights. It is incouraging to see that flicker of freedom still alive and doing well icamedia!
at April 26, 2006 7:25 AM
Well done the Professor for having the balls to stick up to those intellectual bullies
Lets hope more follow suit, and lets hope some african americans pick up on the incredibly racist comments made by Osama Bin Laden Recently
It would make the job easier, if Muslims where more isolated - mentally, physically, spritually
Posted by: chu - doc at April 26, 2006 5:26 PM
poisonr ... a very entertaining reply...thank you for emulating your name.
Increasingly infedels want to nuke (the majority) of peace loving muslims like me...and ofcourse that may happen through some rouge president.
But You know that in a decade or so that "advantgage" will dissappear....so poisonr....do it while you can ...make hay and mushrooms ...and don't forget to ask for Allah's assistance.
Posted by: Naseem at April 26, 2006 6:37 PM
CAIR are displaying a written apology from the professor on their website.
Posted by: wallyUK at April 26, 2006 7:36 PM
Naseem
I too am interested in your response to Ronin's & Del's question - how did you answer question 16 in your Pak passport application?
And Lahoris? Does that mean that the only people in Lahore are Ahmadiyas?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 26, 2006 8:08 PM
Johnmac
Churchill was an artist with words. This one is appropriate in this case.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last."
OH - and Naseem, here's one for you.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Posted by: WC at April 26, 2006 8:25 PM
Infidel Pride,
Lahore Ahmadiyas (Lahoris) are a separate subsect, distinct from the Qadianis, of which naseem has claimed membership in the past. Both groups saw Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as somesortofprophet, but they split apart about some later Ahmadi leaders. One can find websites where Lahoris rant on and on about how the Qadianis are apostate infidels, but they, themselves, are true muslims. Sort of a puerile dhimmified behavior within islam, among those who desperately want to be considered part of the crowd, so that they dump on someone else, in order to suck up to the "high" status sunnis or the slightly lower shia. One could also see the abject begging for muslim status several weeks ago in the way naseem was so thrilled when the idiotic mohideen wrote that he considered "her" to really be a muslim. naseem was like a puppy dog licking its owners face, just thrilled with the attention and the "compliment". The problem is: It might be entertaining, but its not a game -- people get killed over this idiocy.
Posted by: del at April 26, 2006 10:25 PM
Gentlemen and Ladies! Please do try to remember where you come from and where it is that you do not wish to go! I cannot sit by and allow people to post on matters of the gravest urgency as though nothing were happening outside this forum. Right now, there are a staggering number of US and Allied soldiers fighting desperately (amidst, dare I say it, silent tears of sheer horror and frustration at the actual,real and undeniably true nature of their common enemy, Islam).
These men and women are by no possible means cowards, so tears would not come easily. However, there is no way that the military academies, or grunt-level (Marines and first-wave toughest of the tough)bootcamps of the US, British,Italian Australian, (et al) armies can ever train their fighting men to tackle girl or boy "soldiers" except under the most dire & extreme of circumstances.
So, how do they gear up for suicide attacks? How do they fight off the paranoia that comes only when they cannot tell who their enemy might actually be? How do they react when they hear that accursed warcry of "allah akbah!" (I refuse to grant, to the tail (R Send) of that mighty serpent, sweeping so casually through waves of humanity, the respect of a Capital A to its supposedly formal and "holy" name).
These men and women are trained for conventional warfare, as are the battle-hardened warriors of the Israeli army. But they may soon have to endure, as do their Israeli counterparts, the sickening reality that they "have no choice" but to shoot dead a Moslem woman or child who refuses to stop at a safe distance, lest s/he be a "suicide bomber" - meaning a thoroughly and "successfully" propagandised murderer.
And who sends the woman/child to perform this duty? Will it be some demented anarchist from the
slime-pits of Kuhzbayn who threatens to shoot them from behind should they choose to baulk and run? No, it will be a mother/husband/wife/Imam who applauds the overwhelming "bravery" of the freshly-vapourised "martyr" and rejoices in the everlasting rewards that are sure to follow.
And it will have to be some highly-trained and heart-broken son-of-a-? in Khaki green who has to accept the awful duty of stopping the potential "martyr" DEAD in his/her tracks. Are we going to ostracise these soldiers when finally their "call-of-duty" ends? Let us pray NOT, but war is an intransigent enemy... And they are there, while I am not. LEST WE FORGET
Posted by: maranatha50 at April 27, 2006 8:57 AM
Naseem said:
"It is thanks to Isl
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