The Swedes did this to offset them shooting down the call for seperate laws for Muslims. Right?
Got to be fair and balanced. Right?

Posted by: JanuaryMan at April 28, 2006 12:53 PM

"Israel is not advancing peace..."
-- from a statement by a Swedish official, explaining his country's boycott of military exercises because Israel was taking part

Others can deal with Sweden's deplorable record -- overlooked for so long -- in World War II. I will simply note that for the entire history of modern Israel, that state has been trying to make peace, and has again and again given up territory to which it had legal, moral, and historic rights. The fact that many Israelis are insufficiently aware themselves of those rights, and their leaders in articulate in presenting that case, and unaware of the circles being run around them by Arab propaganda (including that invention of the "Palestinian people") does not mean that those rights do not exist. Israel has at least as good a claim, and actually a claim a good deal better, to the West Bank and Gaza, as part of the territory intended to be in the original Mandate for Palestine (which itself was established in order to create a Jewish National Home, inexorably leading to a state), as does Italy to the Sudtirol or Alto Adige. When, after World War I, Italy was given the Sudtirol (taken from Austria), it seemed legitimate to all the alies. Austria had ruled over much of Italy (see Garibaldi); Austria had commmitted aggresson against Italy. Besides, the helmet of Italy (l'elmo di Scipio) had to be nicely rounded off with the additional territory taken from Austria, as the Italian natonal hymn says.

There is only one peacekeeping force that has been permanently effective in the Middle East during the past half-century. Europeans owe it a debt of gratitude, just as they owe Israel for being not the cause of the Jihad now being waged against them, but rather for so long the lightning-rod that preoccupied the Arab Muslims before the trillions in OPEC oil money, and the millions of Muslim migrants, allowed to settle deep within Europe, allowed the Greater Jihad -- and not merely the Lesser Jihad against Israel --to be conducted, using instruments (Da'wa, demographic conquest) for a campaign that is harder to recognize, harder to halt.

The name of that peacekeeping force? The IDF, or Israel Defense Forces.

Posted by: Hugh at April 28, 2006 12:58 PM

Sweden was such a great help in defeating the Nazi Regime in WWII. Gee, wonder what happened?

Posted by: MP at April 28, 2006 12:59 PM

"Israel is not advancing peace..."

What more is Israel supposed to do? I guess the only option left is surrender.

I am going to have to place Sweden in the "Against us" column.

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at April 28, 2006 1:22 PM

Sweden the country that was, like the Swiss so well known for its nutrality, has finally chosen a side. What a choice after all these years.

Posted by: dizzyfatplonka at April 28, 2006 1:53 PM

Not being Danish, I do not know if I am telling it right, but as I seem to remember, there was a Danish joke going around during and after the war, that said: "What is a Swede? A German with a grin on his face." Sweden, like Switzerland, had the misfortune of being surrounded by Axis territory on all sides, but the fact is that there was strong sympathy in the country for German aggression, not only in WWII, but in the previous war as well. Sweden and freedom have never really agreed together, and as the country has never had a revolution or any serious popular movement (even its Social Democrats were elitists), freedom as such has no great hold on their imagination. Notice that what really pissed them off about the recent blackmailing note by a local Muslim association was the threat, not to liberty, but to their idea of equality.

Posted by: Paolo at April 28, 2006 2:09 PM

Worth reading, the former Spanish PM's opinion on Israel's participation in these exercises, courtesy of Melanie Phillips's on-line diary at melaniephillips.com:

NATO's new mission

A splendid piece by the former Spanish Prime Minister, Jose Maria Aznar, reminds us of what a tragic day it was for both Spain and the defence of the free world when the Spanish buckled under the threat of terror and replaced him by an appeasement-minded government. Aznar is one of the few present or former world leaders who really gets it. NATO, he says, needs to articulate a new mission: to combat jihadism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and concentrate its efforts upon fighting terror. Obvious. In pursuit of this aim, he says, it should open its doors to those nations that share its values and invite Japan, Australia, and Israel to become full members. Obvious: but only to some. Israel, as he says, may be in the Middle East but it is defending western values, and its half-century defence against the Arab enemies who have ceaselessly tried to exterminate it has now mutated into a defence against the Islamist extremism which has taken over the Palestinian cause. But as he says, there are many who don’t see it that way:

"As you can imagine, many people in Europe and in NATO were shocked by the idea of inviting Israel, although they took as a natural fact the establishment of closer cooperation with Japan and Australia, which indeed is a big change for NATO. Some people from Israel also objected to having Israel as a formal ally in NATO. But treating Israel as if it were not an integral part of the Western world is a big mistake that will affect our ability to prevail in this long war against jihadism. I think it is in our mutual interests to have Israel as a formal ally... "

"The West cannot fight this radical tide without Israel. Israelis might decide that for their own security they had better follow the traditional policy of relying just on themselves. But Islamic extremism is more a tsunami than a tide, and in front of this powerful force we better stand together. In Europe, more and more people better understand the Israeli position each day. If you agree that the world faces a global threat, it is necessary to organize a strong response to this threat. For me, Israel is a vital part of the Western world. Israel is becoming more and more important to the Western world for stability, prosperity, and freedom..."

"I don't believe in appeasement against terrorism. I don't believe in negotiation with terrorism. I believe in the necessity to fight against terrorists. It is a very serious mistake to negotiate with terrorism. Terrorists should be frightened and defeated, and this is possible. No other policy exists for me."

It’s not often one hears a member of the political or intellectual class articulate so clearly and unequivocally such a moral, progressive and eminently realistic position.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at April 28, 2006 2:47 PM

I wonder what the people of Sweden think of this? After all it's their government that make these decisions. In the UK Tony Blair has been allowing wanted terrorists to use my country as a base of operations for years. The majority of the UK are against this (obviously) but the politicians only make a show of listening to the people just before elections. Sadly it is the people who pay for this. Would like to get an opinion from any Swedes that read this forum?

Posted by: DaveMate at April 28, 2006 3:09 PM

We're Swedes, from the land of the Nobel Dhimmi Prize.

We're morally superior.

We won't join a military training if Israel is present, but we'll let people come and visit us who want to see Israel destroyed.

We've already given a zillion kronor to the Welfarestinians, plus we've donated Malmö and large chunks of several other cities to the Ummah.

We're Swedes. Please don't hurt us. Here, have our Jews.

Posted by: Cato the Elder at April 28, 2006 3:12 PM

No big loss here. When push comes to shove, who would you rather have on your side – Israel or Sweden? What has Sweden given the world other than blondes to shag, some decent hockey players (who won’t fight), furniture (made in China) and boring cars that are expensive to fix?

Posted by: johnb at April 28, 2006 3:45 PM

"What has Sweden given the world other than blondes to shag...."
Posted by: johnb

Now, now let’s not diminish this worth while contribution. As for the hockey players, furniture and cars they can keep 'em.

But you are right I'd rather have Israel on my side.
I would think THEY would rather have Israel on their side too.

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at April 28, 2006 4:14 PM

Sweden does seem to have a thing about Jewish people don't they.

Posted by: IceDragon at April 28, 2006 4:50 PM

"the Swedish Armed Forces were notified at a late stage that a state not belonging to the Partnership for Peace, and with which Sweden did not previously have bilateral military cooperation, and which does not take part in international peacekeeping missions was to take part in the air exercise."

and

"A Swedish official told Israel Radio that Israel was not currently advancing peace and was therefore not fit to take part in the exercise."

Peace is war.
War is deception.
Black is white.
White is black.
Got that?

Oy the Swedes. One is constantly being disillusioned by the facts. Education is sobering.

So I will contrast Sweden's official words (and the words of a Swedish official) with the words of G-d when G-d revealed G-dliness to Moshe at Sinai. One section of G-dliness is "Abundant in kindness and truth". In Hebrew this is: rav chesed v'emet. Swedes, tell the truth. It's better that way.

Posted by: HaMalach at April 28, 2006 7:19 PM

The Swedish position is incredibly undiplomatic and insulting. It borders idiocy.

Then again, so do the comments of many of you regarding Swedes. Do notice that I wrote "Swedes" and not "the Swedish government".

"What has Sweden given the world other than blondes to shag"

Johnb, you just wrote one of the most stupid posts I have ever read in this site.

With the exception of Hugh's post, Paolo's and a couple of others, most of what was written here borders xenophobia. Congratulations dimwits.

Posted by: cruzado at April 28, 2006 7:37 PM

Hamas will do everything they can to destroy relations with Israel. Why can't we all get on, and share this planet, without hate and violence. We will destroy each other, that is not in doubt, but why? Why must we kill people? Do you know what happens when you die? NO, of course you don't. To think that you will get some kind of special treatment for destroying God/Allah's creation is beyond me.

Posted by: DaveMate at April 28, 2006 7:59 PM

If you really want to know how bad things are in Sweden, read Fjordman's 3-page article below. What is most shocking beyond the scope and degree of muslim rape and violence in Sweden, is the absolute refusal of Sweden to even acknowledge that there is a problem, from the politicians right down to the rape victims themselves. It is mass denial. Truly amazing. I used to feel sorry for the Swedes, but not anymore after reading this article.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/Fjordman50506.htm

Also check out this article on the rape wave itself

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

Posted by: thethinker at April 28, 2006 10:16 PM

As an American of Swedish ancetry, who still has relatives in Sweden, I am ashamed of my people, or at leats my mother's people. I hate to say this but they have chosen the side of evil in this conflict and will sadly get what they deserve.There are some good things about Sweden that are probile gone or going to be soon.
I agree with the above posters about Swedens deplorable record. Swedish culture has a pathological aversion to conflict, that is and has been pervasive blight on the Swedish character, one that militant Islam will quite naturally use to its advantege. My money is on Sweden to be the first Western European country to surrender in part or in full to Islam.
As another poster also noted, Sweden doesn't have history of freedom and democracy. In some way or another Sweden has always been a very conformist culture.Tyranny with a nice clean face and welfare benefits. The current tyranny and locus of conformity is an almost cult like belief in multiculturalism and a deep pathological self loathing of everything Swedish.
There have been signs of hope such as the opposition to seperate laws for Muslims and the refusal to join the E.U., but over all things are looking grim for this nation of adrift moral paupers.

Posted by: abdulalshirk at April 29, 2006 1:12 AM

re: Sweden's gov't announcement and their mockery of truth is on par with many other western officials. The prophet Isaiah says it best:

Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Barnes' notes comments on Isaiah 5:20

[Wo unto them that call evil good ...] This is the fourth class of sins denounced. The sin which is reprobated here is that of "perverting and confounding" things, especially the distinctions of morality and religion. They prefer erroneous and fake doctrines to the true; they prefer an evil to an upright course of conduct.
Applicable to all government representatives, this is a more general reference to those who confound all the distinctions of right and wrong, and who prefer the wrong.

Posted by: GA_boy at April 29, 2006 1:26 AM

I'm sure that Sweden's air prowess will be missed.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 29, 2006 3:03 AM

Well, at least the Muslims that continually rape Swedish women will be happy.

Posted by: DCWatson at April 29, 2006 4:58 AM

i am actually stunned at this government position

tsk....still cant believe it.

after all the recent suicide bombings, and the newly elected palestinian government being a terrorist organisation, you say Israel are the ones who dont want peace?

why? cos thier building a wall to protect themselves?

I say enough of this bs, Sweden should be left to rot if they are taken over. If they seem destined to keep repeating history they should learn the lessons in the hardest way instead of other countries continously bailing them out.

Posted by: chu - doc at April 29, 2006 6:40 AM

Who knew that Sweden had an armed force? And an Air Force to boot. I bet that they are formidable. Seriously, I thought that they were done with that sort of stuff after Gustavus Aldophus got whacked at Lutzen.

Posted by: Lepanto at April 29, 2006 1:25 PM

thethinker I agree with you "I used to feel sorry for the Swedes, but not anymore after reading this article. " What is happening right now in sweden is a reckoning. Moral cowardice is immoral. They are standing buy and watching others suffering and they are not doing anything out of fear for themselves. What comes around goes around. The swedes have no problems voicing opposition to Milosovic. And they supported the bombing of Yugoslavia, even though the Serbs were innocent. Yet when the US bombed a middle eastern tyrant they could not support that war. When that swedish politician was murdered by the young man a couple of years ago I was disgusted how they made her out to be a hero. She was a monster.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at April 29, 2006 3:40 PM

HaMalach:

Tov, tov, tov. Rav Chesed v'emet.

I also think it is time to note that while Sweden did take in Jewish refugees from Denmark and Norway, they also provided Hitler with his ball bearings, and gave German troops transit through Swedish territory to fight on the Finnish front and occupy Norway.

Maybe the Irgun did a service by bumping off Folke Bernadotte.

Posted by: Kepha at April 29, 2006 6:37 PM

Too bad Swedish women aren't allowed to carry much of anything to defend themselves, not even pepper spray. If these Muslim men came here to Texas, they'd could very well be looking down the barrel of gun if they tried to rape a woman.

Posted by: corli at April 30, 2006 6:29 AM

I'm a Swede and just want to say that many, many Swedes are very angry about this. I don't know a single person who supports this decision, and in the discussion forums you see comment after commetn like 'I'm ashamed to be Swedish', and 'WTF are the politician's doing?!!!'

We are in the middle of an election year and hope very much to get rid of the socialist party that has spent the last 30 years ruining our country and our international reputation. Please don't think that this decision represents what ordinary Swedes think because it doesn't. A loud minority here are hypocritical pussy leftists and they have held power for a long time, but the tide is turning.

So from me and the majority of _normal_ Swedes a big "we're sorry!" to the rest of the world and especially to Israel.

Posted by: Rolle at May 5, 2006 2:42 AM

In sweden the official papers are mostly leaving out the facts that are not the governments policy. It is called PK, or Political Correctness in english. PK is that the israelis are the bad ones. PK is that it is only the palestinians that are suffering.

There is much rotten in sweden and we have only seen a small portion of it.

Once i was proud of my country, not any longer

Posted by: barobas at May 5, 2006 4:51 AM

I'm Swedish, and I'm very glad the minister was granted a visa. Hamas won the democratic referendum fair and square, and their newly formed government should be recognized as any other deomcratic government. Refusing contacts with them, terminating talks etc, will only serve the interests of the militant extremists there. They will gain and gain support from people if west doesnt recognize their government and stopping negotiations. Look at the Iran-Iraq war, where west supported Iraq with weapons. The support and loyalty towards Khomeini of course grew within Iran.

And, if funds and economic support to Palestine is cancelled, it's the people who will suffer, and support their leaders even more.
I advocate talks and more contact, that's the only way to future peace and understanding. Marginalizing them even more won't do any good.

Posted by: Pravda at May 6, 2006 7:59 AM

Pravda, your nick says it all. Shouldn't you be passing out communist pamphlets on some city square? Try washing your hair next time, more people might stop to listen to your lunatic rantings.

Posted by: Rolle at May 8, 2006 9:21 AM