mullahs cannot deal with literate peoples, they are so used to working with stupid brain dead people, that they are illequiped when dealing with the West.
you see the same tactics used against Robert's books and websites, they cannot attack their works and words, but the person's credibility. muslims who want true dialogue will take a more honest approach to reading their koran. the smart ones should just abandon this cult of death, as those who try to change will be charged with being apposates and killed. the start of the end of islam is coming very soon.

Posted by: Lulu at May 5, 2006 8:40 AM

This is important. I hope the Pope steps up to back him if this escalates any further.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at May 5, 2006 8:46 AM

Go Pell!!!

Trust the "Green Party" to call for his resignantion. They really should be called the "Red Party"!

The man has studied his stuff and is still committed to interfaith dialoque. What else do these creeps want from him?

Posted by: Gramfan at May 5, 2006 9:09 AM

"He is the leading Catholic he should be working for tolerance and respect."
- Australian MP calling for Pell to resign

But he is. He is doing it far better than almost anyone else in Australia.

Posted by: Hugh at May 5, 2006 9:28 AM

Anybody who wants to send a message of support to Cardinal Pell can do so by emailing to

chancery@ado.syd.catholic.org.au

or go to the Archdiocesan website 'Contact Us' page at

http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/contact.shtml

and click on the relevant link for a Quick Form email box.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at May 5, 2006 9:37 AM

No longer can Muslims speak as if they are the seekers of tolerance and respect,no longer can they deny the militant ideology that pervades the teachings of the Quran, and the hadiths,no longer can they call for the resignations of those who speak the truth such as Cardinal Pell.

The window of knowledge is opening slowly, but it is opening when it comes to the practices of anti-semitism,and the intolerance towards all that are not muslims.

Stand firm with great resolve Cardinal Pelt.

Posted by: Mackie at May 5, 2006 9:37 AM

They just can't stand the truth. When people know the truth, they aren't going to join islam and the cult would die out. And most definitely the Pope should back him all the way.

Posted by: freewoman at May 5, 2006 9:39 AM

"Isolated suggestions that I am uninformed on Islam are cliches, smokescreens to distract, to divert attention rather than address basic issues which need to be discussed,"
Are we sure this guy hasn't been lurking on Jihadwatch? This sounds like textbook Robert or Hugh, almost to the point of plagiarism :) But that's the nice thing about REAL truth: It can be independently obtained in different times and locations, as seen in the case of many scientific discoveries made by people geographically isolated from each other with no knowledge of the other's work.

Posted by: Kuffir at May 5, 2006 9:49 AM

It seems like every time there's an act of anti-dhimmitude, it comes from Australia.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at May 5, 2006 10:03 AM

Re: "New South Wales Greens MP Lee Rhiannon says Cardinal Pell should resign."

OK, I'm taking bets that say Mr. Rhiannon hasn't read the Koran.

Posted by: johnb at May 5, 2006 10:23 AM

God bless and be with you, Cardinal Pell. You speak the truth about Islam and as Jesus says, " the truth shall set you free ".

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 5, 2006 10:38 AM

It's wonderfull to see Pope Benedict and now Cardinal George Pell speaking the truth about Islam.

Islam cannot stand the truth but they will find it hard to silence the Roman Catholic Church.
I must say I'm proud to be an Australian and Catholic :)

Posted by: Mike_W at May 5, 2006 10:55 AM

Re: "New South Wales Greens MP Lee Rhiannon says Cardinal Pell should resign."

OK, I'm taking bets that say Mr. Rhiannon hasn't read the Koran.

johnb

This is the leader of the Greens party, a self loathing marxist socialist, so what else should we expect from them? Jihad enablers, every one of them.

http://www.bobbrown.org.au/

I can't believe I may have once contemplated voting for these nutjobs. They make me sick.

Posted by: Mr Krabs at May 5, 2006 11:09 AM

Rahim Ghauri, from the Federation of Islamic Councils, says Cardinal Pell's comments are disappointing.
"I wish people of his calibre would give some positive statements so the world can come together," he said.

So the world is not together because, people like Pell, cant see their way clear to make positive statements about Islam. In other words they refuse to lie; 'roll over and play dead like a good little dhimmi, and dont forget to pay that tax.' I can see why that would get Rahim upset. The truth always upsets Islam and its submitters. Truth hurts ...dont it...Not only that, is 'wishing' haram? Rahim could be in big trouble with Allah. Wishing is a mental attempt to change destiny. Since predestination is Allahs forte, wishing to change it could be bad news for the wisher. You dont try to undo by wishing, what Allah has already decreed. I think poor Rahim has shot himself in the foot...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 5, 2006 11:22 AM

This slave Rhiannon said: ''Pell should be working for tolerance and respect''

Who's this guy kidding? The wilful blindness here is nothing short of criminal. What is it in a person that can't see the the glaringly obvious,ie the nature of Islamic belief and its bottomless intolerance and total absence of respect for other beliefs.Why should we tolerate evil? It is insane to do so. This goon Rhiannon is the Aussie version of Jack Straw, who thankfully has been removed today by Blair from his position of Foreign Secretary and replaced by Margaret Beckett. Hopefully she will exercise her more noble and courageous feminine instincts and integrity and tell the truth. Unlikely though, as she's just another Blair sycophant and Islam appeaser.

Posted by: samson at May 5, 2006 11:33 AM

It is time that men like Archbishop Pell speak the truth about Islam. I too started reading the Koran and underlining the messages of violence. Almost every page of the Koran speaks of doom, hell fire, punishment, torture etc. This is an easily established fact. Try it!

Pell is not ignorant of Islam!

May many more people follow Pell's example and advice.

Read the Koran! Note the violence, the hatred and the terror!

...And realise the desperate need to help Muslims be freed from the terror of their own "holy" book, their own terrorist prophet, their own violent religion.

May many more people stand up and speak the truth, without fear!

Posted by: yamiin at May 5, 2006 11:38 AM

So why should only muslims get tolerance and respect?

Posted by: freewoman at May 5, 2006 11:54 AM

Mike_W

"I must say I'm proud to be an Australian and Catholic :)"

You have every reason to be. Pell's article is an historic act.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 5, 2006 12:17 PM

It's in the Koran
In our days of glory now centuries past The kingdom of islam stood mighty and vast Then we failed our faith and watched your power grow But soon our greatness will return And this is how we know

Because it's in the Koran It's writen in the Koran A world united under Allah Is the future of man How could it not be so when most opposing us panic and surrender once a few of them have bled

We're happy to torture We're eager to rape We savor your lsat screams on videotape We massacre children We ransack a shrine And all our acts are sanctified By Suras 2 through 9

Because it's in the Koran It's written in the Koran that we should fight and slay the infidels however we can We'll blow ourselves to bits if that gives us an advantage Or we'll slit your throats while youre asleep in bed

Those heathens who scold us are wasting their breath over the millions we've butchered and starved We're men who would let girls be trampled to death Rather than see them in public unscarved

So don't look for mercy when you're at our feet The justice we'll give you is harsh and complete We danced in delight when your Twin Towers fell And you'll weep with your slaughtered as you burn with them in Hell

Because it's in the Koran, it's written in the Koran Your fate was settled long before this latest battle began We've found our holy purpose and we'll never abandon it as long as there's a sinner to behead

In other words we won't rest tlil everyone in the west is a slave, a Muslim or dead

It should interest us all that the video has been removed from the site....(some BS reason, I'm sure it is really because muslims objected)

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 5, 2006 12:27 PM

Yamiin posted: I too started reading the Koran and underlining the messages of violence.

Long ago I started to read the koran. Frankly it was difficult to get past the first couple of pages - turgid, repetetive and plain idiocy all the way, so it was difficult restraining oneself from chucking it.

So to all those who have gone through the koran in a couple sittings - my admiration for your fortitude and restraint.

Posted by: DP111 at May 5, 2006 12:37 PM

If this behavior Down Under keeps up, I might have to marry an Australian woman. It seems that the Aussies have more verve than the rest of the Western world.

Rahim Ghauri, from the Federation of Islamic Councils, says Cardinal Pell's comments are disappointing.

"I wish people of his calibre would give some positive statements so the world can come together," he said.

How typically deceptive and disingenuous of a Muslim spindoctor.

Posted by: Foehammer at May 5, 2006 1:13 PM

Yes, Rahim Ghauri, we know your song. It is not quite John Lennon's; more like -
Come together
Right now, how how
Under me!

Posted by: Paolo at May 5, 2006 1:26 PM

Foehammer,

IMHO, the Aussies are very gutsy folks. The are great folks, but also not afraid to be blunt. They do not want to become dhimmi. But also they are in the front to get the west to wake up and see the dangers that are ahead.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 5, 2006 1:27 PM

This is the text of the message I sent to the Chancellery of the Archdiocese (Cardinals rarely read their own mails):

Dear Sir/Madam,

please convey to His Eminence Cardinal Pell the congratulations of one single Catholic of no importance or name, such as myself, for his upright, truthful and yet calm and unaggressive statement of certain commonly ignored truths about the Muslim faith. A statement of truth in such a matter is both necessary and, as His Eminence no doubt realizes, greatly dangerous. His Holiness the Pope has recently stressed that the red of Cardinals is the red of martyrdom, connecting the order of Princes of the Church with all those who have made themselves at one with Christ in death; and while we hope that His Eminence will not have to risk their fate, I may say that I have rarely seen such explicit and unscared testimony - and testimony is martyrdom - in the modern Church. God be with you, My Lord Cardinal, and bless all your efforts.

Posted by: Paolo at May 5, 2006 1:35 PM

Foehammer

There have been so may excuses that muslims have made for islam, that it is worth keeping a tab on them.

Here are a few I can remember

1. The sura or text has been taken out of context. When shown that the context reinforced the sura, we had

2. It is only a tiny minority of muslims that are responsible for violence, and they are not REAL muslims.

When that ran out of steam

3. It is the Wahabis and only the Wahabi strain that is giving islam a bad name. Steven Scwartz used this quite often.

When it was shown that not just Wahabis were out of control

4. Non-muslims just do not understand the nature of the divinity of the koran. Patently absurd.

Then came

5. Only muslim scholars truly understand the nature of the koran. When that was disposed off, we had

6. Only when the koran is read in Arabic is its divinity grasped.

7. Islamosphobia - any critic of islam was an islamophobe.

We have new excuses

8. Official and Un-official islam. This is a brand new theory, cooked up to excuse the utter depravity of islam.

9. "I wish people of his calibre would give some positive statements so the world can come together."

The last is a peach, as it gives the impression that the world is full of hatred, and it is islam and muslims who are trying to bring peace to the planet.

Posted by: DP111 at May 5, 2006 1:40 PM

Rebecca JW - there is no need to worry about the Cardinal's posture. A Cardinal is nearly untouchable - even Nazis and Communists rarely threatened them. His only superior is the Pope, and as a rule he can be quite impervious to any kind of convinction or pressure. When a Cardinal is a bad man - such as Mahoney in LA - the result can be disastrous; but I already knew Pell for one of the most forward-looking, fearless, orthodox and strong-minded leaders in the world Church, and a very successful shepherd of his people. And it so happens that the Anglican Archbishop of Sydney is also said to be strong, orthodox and brave. Australia does seem luck in her pastors.

Posted by: Paolo at May 5, 2006 1:42 PM

Foehammer
I was unable to access your quick time audio on your website and want very much to hear it. I don't understand why because I have quick time, just not the pro version. I wasn't able to listen on the internet because the website was down. Any suggestions.

Posted by: dms at May 5, 2006 1:44 PM

A friend of mine is American, has lived his whole life of 50+ years in the USA but has traveled extensively (to among other places, Greece and Egypt), has been a devout Greek Orthodox Christian for decades, and is currently on a mission in Uganda helping a small community of black African Christians build a school. I've known him to be a Lefty and we've had our disagreements about the problem of Islam. I hadn't been in touch with him for over three years. When I discovered his personal blog recently, and noticed an article he reproduced approvingly about how the evil West (mostly the USA, of course) is to a great degree to blame for, or at least is fomenting, the horrors in Sudan, I had to email him and advise him to at least check out Jihad Watch and educate himself about the scourge of Islam. Here was his reply to me:

"yes, that's what's happening in places, and, to a large degree, their
rulers are just as corrupt as ours.

but you gotta believe this is true as well:

"Islam is a mosaic of many sects....It's as
diverse as humanity itself."

-- Carnegie Corporation president Vartan
Gregorian (commenting on the exclusive focus of this year's Carnegie Scholars program on issues
relating to Islam and the modern world,Press Release 4/25/06)

"it would not be good," contined my Greek Orthodox friend, "to fall into some kind of
stereotyping. the muslims here [in Uganda] (about 20% of the population) don't seem to be too interested in killing people who don't like islam."

I forthwith emailed him a Hugh Fitzgerald article that mentions Vartan Gregorian; though I doubt it will do much good.

Posted by: Television at May 5, 2006 1:50 PM

PS: I'd like to add that my Greek Orthodox friend has been a student of theology and philosophy for decades, can read Greek, Latin, some Russian and Sanskrit, and is very well-read in the Western classics (as well as in the Patristic Fathers and in Hindu and Buddhist literature) and extremely intelligent.

Posted by: Television at May 5, 2006 1:55 PM

I've never met an Aussie I didn't like. God bless Australia!

Posted by: MP at May 5, 2006 2:19 PM

Paolo
Great letter. Reading it I had a feeling I was back in time, in Rome, possibly at the time of Bellarmino.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 5, 2006 2:36 PM

Television

Your friend sounds almost like the twin of one of my own friends back in Eastern Europe. He is steeped in Eastern Orthodox Church matters.

To him and to many in the Church circles there, nothing could be worse than Protestantism, contrary to the received wisdom about the "quarrel" between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. They despise the theology, the ethos, the whole spirit of it. Thence they despise America. They are somewhat in awe of what they perceive as the "piety" of Islam, its aggressive anti-secular drive.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 5, 2006 3:01 PM

The mental image of of 'seething' Muslims gives me great cheer.

I applaud the Cardinal's honesty and courage.

But, as Archimedes noted yesterday, I wish that the Cardinal had thought this part of his statement through:

"In the Muslim understanding, the Koran comes directly from God, unmediated. Muhammad simply wrote down God’s eternal and immutable words as they were dictated to him by the Archangel Gabriel."

Considering that Pickthall's translation of sura 7:157 states:

"Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write,..."

It would be difficult for Mohammad to write that he could not write.

But, I did send an email of support to the Cardinal.

Posted by: PRCS at May 5, 2006 3:12 PM

Maybe the Cardinal can visit the gibungous Muslim tent in London for some of that there "interfaith dialogue."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2165866,00.html

Posted by: scaramouoche at May 5, 2006 3:18 PM

ovidius, Yes, my friend is quite anti-Protestant (particularly anti-American-Protestant). He also tends, more or less in keeping with his Church, to accent the eschatological glory over the immanent mystery of history, and combines that tendency with a profound distrust of all nation-states (of course, particularly the American nation-state) and a conviction that there was some proto-Communism practiced by the early Israelites and Apostolic Christians, superior to the evil Capitalism which the modern West (again, particularly the USA) has megalomaniacally foisted on the world.

I wouldn't say he's exactly "in awe" of Muslim piety; he probably considers them to be an "Abrahamic" cousin religion; but my friend is strictly orthodox (with both an omicron and an Omega) and doesn't for a minute think Muslims are any less benighted, soteriologically, than are American Protestants.

My main point is that my unusually well-educated and intelligent American friend seems to be practically illiterate about the problem of Islam, and willfully, comfortably so.

Posted by: Television at May 5, 2006 3:25 PM

The only thing a muslim fears more than an armed infidel is the TRUTH. Cardinal Pell, I salute you and wish you well.

Posted by: Ronin at May 5, 2006 4:17 PM

I continue to be completely committed to dialogue with Muslims, to supporting moderate forces on all sides.

Did our dear friend Daniel Pipes get to this poor soul?

MO HIJABS MO BANK JOBS MO NAKLAH CARAVAN ROBS MO UNICORN SEEING SLOBS

For my part, I continue to be completely against dialog with Moslems cuz listening to their self-serving nonsense only encourages them, and I laugh derisively in the face of Unicorn-hallucinators wherever I meet them.

If there are "moderate forces on all sides" of this epochal mess then I'm Brad Pitt.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at May 5, 2006 5:09 PM

Well, Publius O.N., when you write to a Cardinal, you do it in the proper style. After all, you are not exactly writing to your mate in the pub - unless of course your mate in the pub DOES happen to be a Cardinal. Which is not impossible!

Posted by: Paolo at May 5, 2006 5:20 PM

If there are "moderate forces on all sides" of this epochal mess then I'm Brad Pitt.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer

Mr Pitt, my plan is to someday spend eternity whipping muhamad like the dog he is. I figure with the things I have done in my life, I’m going to the same place old mo ended up and I’ll need something to occupy my time. Although, I am sure the fire is burning his black hearted butt I plan to thump him on his noggin.

Posted by: Ronin at May 5, 2006 5:29 PM

I haven't seen this anywhere else except here and at CatholicReport.org I wish everyone could read about stories like this. However, it seems only this site and CatholicReport.org cover these type of stories.

Posted by: Dave at May 5, 2006 5:42 PM

Lee Rhiannon of the Greens party is a woman, by the way.

Posted by: Voltaire at May 5, 2006 5:53 PM

Thanks, Robert Spencer or his sit-in for taking my last statement off this blog. Now in the aftermath it strikes me as almost embarrassing. But like any western person it happens that I was out at the pub and had a few refreshing drinks. Coming back home to my PC (personal computer) i could not stand the ravings of this Naseem entity any longer, so I adressed the entity with a threat... well, this threat was not impossible, considering I have learned a lot from the "blackfellas" of Australia´s Top End...
These "blackfellas" do not trust any white Australian, (MP: I did not meet any Australian I didn´t like...) thats why they usually fall back on doing their dealings with the white world via non-australian born Euros... I am one of these, and for a long time now I have to listen to elders complaining about the threat of 160 million Indonesion muslims located only a couple of hundred miles to their north becoming horny for the uranium mined at Kakadu and other northern places in Australia. ( there are about 800.000 blackfellas left up there) If you forward this concern to any white Australian they will treat you as a pro-blackfella ideological idiot who is taking up their cause without knowing whats going on.. Of course, these Blackfellas are not catholic and do not want to be, after all they have their Dreamtime.
So all these white Australians padding the shoulder of their Sydney cardinal Mr. Pell is a good thing for the cause of JW, but to the blackfellas of the north Sydney is 3500km away and it would be useless to address those Sydneysiders. The Sydneysiders are still crying after the aussie victims of the Bali bombing (80)but still fly there for a short holiday, if possible with a bag full of marihuana for a few bob on the side. (more crying if smugglers get busted and face death penalty).
Now the Australian Government is considering rewriting its constitution on uranium because G.W.Bush has been to India signing a couple of nuclear treaties, but India not being a member of the general nuclear alliance was not allowed under Australian law to receive any australian mined uranium, this situation will change now in a couple of months, not like before, 20 years NO!
India receiving australian uranium is probably a good thing considering that the muslims must be kept at bay, but it also shows that Australia is ruled by a bunch of most opportunistic political criminals who do anything to stay in power and friends with the big mob...
The twelve or so aussie bloggers on this site do not give a correct picture of the general australian state of mind. Aussies do not want to know about this information, they do not know about muslim infiltration, even the "riots" of Dec.2005 where probably not really the muslims fault, there were probably a few beachgoing aussie drinkers who lost it, but in general our country is the greatest on earth, so what you are going on about?
Australia has got only under 20 million population (size of Holland), and I would not be surprised if already 5% were muslim...

Posted by: cosmicAvenger at May 5, 2006 6:00 PM

Only Polite Comments - Please -
Even if they are not truthful.

""Rahim Ghauri, from the Federation of Islamic Councils, says Cardinal Pell's comments are disappointing.

"I wish people of his calibre would give some positive statements so the world can come together," he said.""

This is the ‘big secret’ for Islam
That the terrorist are acting on the Islam’s very own religious text. That everything the terrorist are doing has been sanctioned by the Koran. So that in effect these terrorist are "doing God's /Allah’s will". And in this case it will be difficult, if not unlawful, in Islam, to oppose these terrorists directly.

While the Muslim Councils attempt to increase the power and influence Islamic has in non Islamic countries, they expect or rather demand that everyone go along with the pretext that Islam is indeed peaceful.

The Catholic Church can help, as it has as many members as Islam and possibly more (I have a feeling, that Islam is loosing more people than it is gaining these days). If members of the Catholic Church speak out and let people know what is really written in this book, then this will be heard by and possibly have an influence on, many in the community, such as teachers, librarians and policy makers.

Posted by: Pass It On at May 5, 2006 7:10 PM

In a slightly longer version of the above article from the ABC http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1631670.htm they "wheel" out Keysar Trad the founder of the Islamic Friendship Assn. of Australia, for his opinion on Cardinal Pell's address in Florida. It is appalling that a man with 9 children, on low income support who supports polygamy -

"Aware that Australian law prohibits polygamy, they know a second wife could never be official. But their religion allows a man four wives and though a lot of what they say to each other about polygamy amounts to teasing, there is also a serious thread. It was Hanifeh who first raised it, approvingly, before they married"

should be mentioned in the same breath as a man of Cardinal Pell's calibre.
I've often seen Trad on Australian TV commenting on all manner of things relating to Islam. Read all about this "outstanding" example of an Australian immigrant at this link.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/01/1033283486605.html

Posted by: cathkins at May 5, 2006 7:21 PM

The article by Cardinal Pell has ben reproduced in the latest issue of
Quadrant magazine. Quadrant is an Australian polical/literary magazine in
the style of, say, the New Crierian or the English Spectator Magazine.
(Quadrant once received, probably inadvertently, some funding from the
CIA!!). This issue celebrates the Golden Jubilee (50 years) of publishing
and there are two other articles discussing Islam in Australia. If you
are sympathetic to a generally right wing position, Quadrant is a good place
to find coverage of current political and social issues in Australia. The
Web Site is www.quadrant.org.au.

On a separate tack, I went to a Greens public meeting with one of the blue
scarf ladies. The meeting was entitled "Racism and the Law - are you
getting a fair deal?" The convenor was the Grens senator Lee Rhiannon.
There were a number of invited speakers including Malikeh Michaels an
Auburn Grens councillor as well as a former NSW policeman turned academic
Michael Kenedy. The motion to be put to the meeting related to the use of
the police descriptor "Middle Eastern apperance" Somewhat amusingly the
only person who knew anything about policing - Kenedy - said (albeit
heavily qualified) these descriptors were useful. That position did not
disturb the meeting overly much and the motion was passed with two
dissenters!! Michaels, it turned out, is a convert to Islam and is married
to an Egyptian. She publicly carried all the Islamic baggage icluding, as
usual, the plight of the Palestinians. Certain politcal parties are in feeding
frenzy circling the Islamic vote

Whever there is a public meeting on Islam in Sydney I will be there with
my (metaphorical) metalstorm. The psuedonym metalstorm is based on an
Austrlian designed and built electronic gun. It holds the world record of
1,000,000 rounds per minute.

Posted by: metalstorm at May 5, 2006 7:30 PM

"Aussie Muslims seethe"

Sounds like a good time to remind ourselves of the " Muslim Offense Levels", courtesy of "The Religious Policeman":

http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006/01/cartoons-offense-level-raised.html

Just to remind you what the various levels mean:

"LOW
Meaning - We are slightly miffed, although we are not sure why. We think we are not as popular as we would like to be....

GUARDED
Meaning - We are quite offended, because people are generally picking on us.

ELEVATED
Meaning - We are definitely cross, because people keep blaming us for 9/11, Parisian cars getting torched, Saudi women getting stoned.

HIGH
Meaning - We are extremely offended by a particular individual or country.

SEVERE
Meaning - We have had enough of your rudeness and ridicule and have gone completely ballistic."

Personally, I would rank this Muslim "seething" at the level of "elevated" - merely on the grounds that "seething" strikes me as rather akin to "cross".

Posted by: Caroline at May 5, 2006 7:43 PM

Cardinal Pell is definitely NOT succumbing to the typical dhimmi response associated with the "elevated" level of "Muslim offense"(per the Religious Policeman):

Expected response: "Pretend that these things have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, tell everyone how we brought algebra to 9th Century Spain"

Cardinal Pell's response: "Isolated suggestions that I am uninformed on Islam are cliches, smokescreens to distract, to divert attention rather than address basic issues which need to be discussed," he said in a statement."

Yeah. This "seething" is DEFINITELY at the "elevated" level and Cardinal Pell is most definitely NOT giving the expected response.

Posted by: Caroline at May 5, 2006 8:13 PM

The only Western people who are consistently showing any backbone at all against Islam are the Danes and the Australians.

How is it that the rest of us have sunk so low into dhimmitude?

Posted by: Suzan at May 5, 2006 8:50 PM

hi,
I read the quran too, and was rather shocked about the unveiled threats and violence in there. The same stuff can be found in the bible too of course, but christianity is older and had time to develop. I'm not really a bible hugger and Jesus supporter, for me he wasn't the son of God, but at least he wasn't a child molester. For all I know.
It's good that people know what's the real message of the quran. We don't need male-dominated religions any more.

Posted by: rainbow-colours at May 5, 2006 9:26 PM

re the *Australian Muslim Association spokesperson Keyser Trad , mentioned a couple of posts above.
* I'm not sure what his proper title is but he is their "Minister for (dis-) Information ." ( Taquiya )
Whenever Islamics behave criminally or otherwise disgrace themselves ( ie often) he is the one trotted out to stand in front of the TV cameras and lie straightfaced. One gem that comes to mind , following (yet another ) gang rape / smash 'n grab/ car -jacking etc. spree by Lebanese "youth" he came out with the assertion that Lebanese youth were better behaved and more socially well adjusted than Australian youth . A statement at great odds with the many court cases, gaol places, stabbing and shooting cases (including the shooting up of a police station in an almost exclusively Lebanese suburb) documented with almost tediously predictable regularity in newspapers.
The great man recently scored himself a permanent social security benefit due to his " stress -disorder" stemming from his being in the constant media spotlight.
Great example /role model for Muslim male migrants to aspire to. Grab that jizya ! As all their leaders are giving that by "leading by example" . All appear to be on maximum on welfare.

Another great example of this. After the Australian govt. rightfully rejected a boatload of invaders from the M.E . trying to illegally migrate to Australia the socialist govt. of our neighbour New Zealand took them in with great fanfare of moral superiority. Then set them up in nice , fully furnished houses , generous welfare etc.
I just read that 3 years later 89% of these migrants are still not in employment and on welfare . (thats 'AFTER THREE YEARS and EIGHTY NINE PERCENT.)
One man said ( through an interpreter of course , and pictured with his hajib covered wife and 2 daudaughters outside their smart house) how nice the NZ people were and how employment would come along fine when the English language skills were mastered.
After 3 years !!??

I guess they must have zero homeless or unemployed in the NZ born population. I wonder how they feel about their govt's generosity ?

This just proves that our much maligned by the left Aust. govt. was correct in repelling the Muslim invaders in the first instance.

ps. just so I can correctly drop the terms into my conversation with un-enlightened lefty aquaintances when trying to educate them to the true face of Islam, can anybody advise the correct pronunciation of these two terms;

taquya = tack-ee-ya (?)

jizya = jizz-ya ( or jizz-ee-ya ?)

wouldn't want to mispronounce them.

Nazeem, can you advise ?

Posted by: protestcat at May 5, 2006 9:27 PM

Paolo

Sure. The guy deserves every bit of your high style: the phrasing, the cadence, the word choice (with one exception, "unagressive," which is an awful choice, and I think you know it) as well as the modern austerity: no fawning lexical and syntactic arabesques when addressing a superior and a possible employer, not even the overt begging for patronage that was the rule back then.
Still, Pell's tract has many, mmany weak points. How about them?

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 5, 2006 9:48 PM

Suzan,

Mohammedans are less than 2% of our population, so they are still at the 'controllable stage'. Also, the rape gangs predated 911 by a year, so we had forwarning.

The Danes also have a non leftish gov that is even more popular now due to the cartoon jihad.

Posted by: PAS at May 5, 2006 10:03 PM

And, we now have a connection with Denmark...Crown Princess Mary, the future queen, is an Aussie.

Posted by: PAS at May 5, 2006 10:07 PM

cosmicAvenger - 'The twelve or so aussie bloggers on this site do not give a correct picture of the general australian state of mind.'

Really? Judging by the ill-informed comments you have made, you are the one without a clue regarding the general Australian state of mind.

' ..they do not know about muslim infiltration'

You appear to be completely out of touch. Yes, we *do* know all about Muslim infiltration - we have watched it since the 1980s. Most people in Sydney are all too aware of it and are very concerned - especially those who are forced to live with the Muslim neanderthal thugs in SW Sydney and their endless mindless violence, drug-dealing and driveby shootings. Ask anyone in Sydney what he/she thinks about Muslims and Islamic immigration - you may get a surprise.

"even the "riots" of Dec.2005 where probably not really the muslims fault, there were probably a few beachgoing aussie drinkers who lost it,.."

Wrong again. The riots at Cronulla happened because of years pent-up local anger over the antisocial behaviour and violence perpetrated by Muslim Lebenese trash from SW Sydney. I banned my daughters from Cronulla Beach years ago. Police refused to address these issues and of course, the gutless NSW Premier is MP for the Islamic suburb of Lakemba. Finally the local people had had enough and unfortunately, riots were the result instead of the more sensible paths of protest.

' ..there were probably a few beachgoing aussie drinkers who lost it'

Yes indeed, about 5000 at last count.

'and I would not be surprised if already 5% were muslim...'

There are 300,000 Muslims in Australia.

Posted by: Deecha at May 5, 2006 10:56 PM

Hello everyone!

I found your site by mistake, but hey, Jihad Watch is just great. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who knows their enemy.
Well done, cardinal Pell, shout the truth out if you must, one day they will listen.

Posted by: uspatriot1488 at May 5, 2006 11:00 PM

PM John Howard has stood by Pell's comments.

"I think any kind of analysis that somebody makes from his position, and he brings a great intellect to the analysis he makes ... I'm quite sure he is not trying to be unhelpful," Mr Howard said.

The Muslims must really be seething now. I guess their little Muslim Reference Group, the hand-picked bunch of taqiyya-artists that have Howard's ear, haven't been able to pull the wool over his eyes. But then Islam is as Islam does. All the chatter and yammer about Islam peace, Islam tolerance, just doesn't wash.

Posted by: feralee at May 5, 2006 11:54 PM

"Quadrant once received, probably inadvertently, some funding from the
CIA!!"
-- from a posting above

I hope it wasn't "inadvertently." I hope it was deliberate. It would have been money well spent. Money from the CIA spent on Encounter Magazine, and the Congress for Cultural Freedom, was possibly the best use of taxpayers's money during the Cold War against Soviet Communism.

I do wish the CIA would take it into its pretty little head to send Jihad Watch money. It would be money well spent. Money from the CIA spent on Jihad Watch would be possibly the best use of taxpayers's money during the Cold War of self-defense against the Jihad.

Do I repeat myself? Very well then, I repeat myself. You know the rest -- large, contain multitudes, very well, all that.

Posted by: Hugh at May 6, 2006 12:29 AM

rainbow-colors said

The same stuff can be found in the bible too of course, but christianity is older and had time to develop.

I am not a Christian or Jew either, but even I know that there is nothing like this in the Bible:

Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

As for "having time to develop", the difference between Christianity and Islam is not their age, but their teachings. The Qur'an is the immutable word of Allah; it will not change, cannot change, in 100 years, 600 years, or 6000 years. The Bible could undergo examination and debate and re-interpretation. Islam would call this blasphemy, and the penalty for blasphemy is, well, you know.

I disagree that all religions are basically the same. There is something fundamentally different about Islam.

Posted by: special_guest at May 6, 2006 3:12 AM

Hugh said

I do wish the CIA would take it into its pretty little head to send Jihad Watch money.

I cannot imagine a better use of our tax dollars. Perhaps the sudden retirement of Porter Goss will bring new possibilities for comprehension of the jihad at Langley. And if the writings of JW can hasten the U.S. exit from Iraq, then we should funnel 0.1% of the money saved (not even including the lives saved) to JW as a small token of our appreciation.

I'm thinking of General Ulysses Grant, later President Grant, who after saving the Union from destruction, retired to write his autobiography. The pension of a soldier being what it is, his only hope to provide for his family was from the sale of his memoirs. One day I hope you can title your autobiography "How I Saved Western Civilisation", and I hope it is successful as was Grant's.

Posted by: special_guest at May 6, 2006 3:30 AM

I believe that the Australian Green Party gets half its votes from Muslims. When Bush visited Canberra a few years back, they pinned pictures of Australian detainees Hicks & Habib on to their chests as if these Islamists were national heroes, and they went nuts about the new anti-terror laws. They stood outside my local polling booth (Sydney) last election with a sign saying “FREE THE REFUGEES” – in reference to detention camps full of Muslims who entered the country in a variety of bogus ways. You would think that cutting down trees and slaughtering whales would be their main beef, but it isn’t. Even something as harmless and logical as wanting immigrants to speak English so they can talk to the rest of us, is considered “racist” in their opinion.

From their website:

Greens Senator Kerry Nettle today questioned the logic behind government citizenship spokesperson Andrew Robb's proposal to introduce a citizenship test saying, "It's hard to see how a test designed to exclude people will help to build a cohesive and inclusive nation."

"The Greens support education and language assistance for all new migrants who need it, as part of an ongoing commitment to multicultural harmony in Australia.

"The solutions to the perceived problems that Mr Robb is worried about are to be found through dialogue with the communities concerned not through the imposition of stigmatising tests."

Get a bucket ready to spew into, there’s more:

Senator Brown, 11th January 2006

The Attorney-General's lecture to Muslims celebrating the end of the Haj yesterday ("When you are Australian...you have a responsibility to uphold the laws of this country.") was insulting and completely unnecessary, Greens Leader Senator Bob Brown said today.

"Muslim Australians are proud, law-abiding citizens who do not need to hear patronising comments from the Attorney-General about upholding the law or practising tolerance," Senator Brown said.

"Did Mr Ruddock make similar comments to Christians at Christmas, or Jews during Hanukkah? This was a celebration of faith, certainly not the place for Mr Ruddock's patronising display.

………………

Ruddock probably didn’t make a speech to Christians because they’re not rioting, making bombs and burning the flag!

Local Muslims vote for the Greens because they are class 1 anti-Australian troublemakers who are always sticking up for the “poor downtrodden Muslim brothers”. The Leftist Greens ignore the fact that the Koran advocates wife beating and killing Homosexuals, and the Muslims ignore the fact that the Greens advocate gay marriage and women’s rights – as it is a convenient relationship for both parties. The Muslims provide the votes, the Greens provide the agitation – and the taxpayer provides the big fat salaries of Greens senators.

Posted by: Timbo at May 6, 2006 7:12 AM

"Local Muslims vote for the Greens because they are class 1 anti-Australian troublemakers who are always sticking up for the “poor downtrodden Muslim brothers”. The Leftist Greens ignore the fact that the Koran advocates wife beating and killing Homosexuals, and the Muslims ignore the fact that the Greens advocate gay marriage and women’s rights – as it is a convenient relationship for both parties. The Muslims provide the votes, the Greens provide the agitation – and the taxpayer provides the big fat salaries of Greens senators."

D--h it, Timbo, That's Democracy for you, isn't it? Other people will always take advantage of our freedoms.

It was Sir Winston Churchill who said "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at May 6, 2006 7:53 AM

Regarding Cardinal Pell upsetting the muslims, he has long been an advocate of orthodox Catholicism. If you google "George Pell" and "rainbow sash" you will get near a thousand hits.

He has upset the gay activists by refusing them communion when they wear their rainbow sashes and demand the Eucharist.

He's always been a staunch supporter of the Church. No weaselling around and trying not to upset people, and I don't recall him ever backing down when he's taken a stand.

Don't expect a backdown on this, either.

On a personal note, many years ago, as a recent convert to Catholicism, I was honoured to meet the then Archbishop. I wasn't quite up to speed on All Things RC, and I'm still getting there. It was at a confirmation ceremony, and the atmosphere was amazing. All the kids and their families had to get their photos taken with the cardinal (not me, though. Bummer about that!)

I've still got the photos even though I'm no longer in communication with the family involved. I'll have to take them out and frame them, I'm thinking.

Posted by: L.Drummond at May 6, 2006 8:18 AM

"New South Wales Greens MP Lee Rhiannon says Cardinal Pell should resign."

I say that Rhiannon should resign and immediately commit seppuku. Do the Australians a favor you gutless worm.

Posted by: Lepanto at May 6, 2006 12:42 PM

special_guest: Ulysses S.Grant had himself assisted by a rising young writer from his part of the world, name of Samuel Langhorne Clemens. The result was indubitably a success, but I think that the literary talent present at the founding of JihadWatch make the suggestion of such ghost writing unnecessary.

Posted by: Paolo at May 6, 2006 12:48 PM

Having seen the good Cardinal interviewed recently on EWTN, I was aware that he viewed the current dialogue with Islam a totally one sided affair. He also claimed that the dialogue would
change under the current Papacy. I am thrilled that such a learned man is willing to challenge the ignorant amongst us who constantly claim that we have nothing to fear from Islam. If one member of every family were to read the Quran throughout the West, the World view concerning Islam and Muslims world wide would be altered forever. The Quran is the source today not only for the terror the Western world is facing, but also the Muslims themselves.
Let us hope that there will be much more of this coming from within the Catholic Church in the months to come.

Posted by: sul3j at May 6, 2006 11:17 PM

Deacha,
regarding your statement that most people in Sydney are wary of Islamics. That may be true in your immediate circle of friends . I wish it were true of mine.
Until recently I worked in a shop with many customers of all ages. I would have to say most were antagonistic to the US govt. and it was very, very trendy to embrace multicult and express sympathy for the "refugees".
I'm afraid that PC dominance prevails.
For now.
Some poster previously suggested that it will take a nuclear incident in the West before people will admit the truth.
I think even then lefties and many others who refuse to engage their faculties will still be talking about "root causes " and blaming the West.
When I was a teenagerin the 1960s/70s it was the Right who were dogmatic , set in their ways, unchanging .
Now it is the left who have this predictable default position on all issues which will not allow for debate or discussion.

Posted by: protestcat at May 7, 2006 3:56 AM

"Trust the "Green Party" to call for his resignantion. They really should be called the "Red Party"!"

Posted by: Gramfan

All greenie-do-gooders are actually watermelons... green on the outside... red on the inside.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at May 7, 2006 4:10 AM

exhibit A of Sydney, Australia dhimmitude;

letters to the editor Sydney Morning Herald Sat 06/05/06. ( a widely read paper btw )

letters on subject of this topic = 7

ALL anti-Pell.

result = 100% dhimmi.

Posted by: protestcat at May 7, 2006 4:55 AM

All greenie-do-gooders are actually watermelons... green on the outside... red on the inside ...

... and too much of it, gives you the sh**s.

As others have said, Muslims vote for Greens in large percentages. Not for any environmental concerns but because the Greens believe in throwing the doors wide open to every non-contributing bludger, no questions asked, no qualifications necessary. Even the poor and unemployable and those needing long-term medical care. How they expect us to pay for this, who knows? Especially given they are so anti-business, anti-farming, anti-everything. I think they expect us not to notice the devastation they'll wreak, because another of their policies is that everyone should have free access to all the drugs they want. We'd be too stoned to notice.

protestcat, the Silly Moaning Herald only posting anti-Pell letters? You don't say! Will wonders never cease?

Posted by: feralee at May 7, 2006 7:44 AM

Check out the letters in Monday's SMH. 3/4 pro Pell and giving the responses that I would have given.

Posted by: PAS at May 7, 2006 6:29 PM

I wonder what the moslems wantus to understand. Is it that the korn is no more their holy book or that what we are reading is not what the book i realyy talking about? The koran encourages violence period. It is very clear.
The problem with islam is fundamentally ideological.They cant change their ideology otherwise islam will cease to exist. They cant change their holy book because it is too late. No wonder when these weaknesses are pointed out, the only option the moslem has is to react violently.We read both the Arabic and English versions and they say the same thing.
Every sensible moslem should be thinking very seriously on how to leave the religion.

Posted by: Nwachinemere at May 8, 2006 9:17 AM

I wonder what the moslems wantus to understand. Is it that the korn is no more their holy book or that what we are reading is not what the book i realyy talking about? The koran encourages violence period. It is very clear.
The problem with islam is fundamentally ideological.They cant change their ideology otherwise islam will cease to exist. They cant change their holy book because it is too late. No wonder when these weaknesses are pointed out, the only option the moslem has is to react violently.We read both the Arabic and English versions and they say the same thing.
Every sensible moslem should be thinking very seriously on how to leave the religion.
I've already written the rev gentleman to encourage him.

Posted by: Nwachinemere at May 8, 2006 9:18 AM