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Muslim clerics' anger. Don't they understand that Islam honors women?
If Islam is the religion of peace, tolerance, and equality that apologists in the West make it out to be, one thing is certain: it is also the religion that fails more miserably than any other to inculcate its true teachings in its adherents.
From The Telegraph, with thanks to Bryce:
Saudi Arabia has postponed plans to replace male sales staff in lingerie shops with women.The move had been its first cautious attempt to bring more women into the work-place.
But even minor reforms have incurred the wrath of ultra-conservative religious leaders, such as the Grand Mufti Shaikh Abdel-Aziz al-Sheikh, who has denounced them as "steps towards immorality and hellfire".
In a country that requires women to cover up in public, and bans them from driving, shop assistants are invariably men - even in stores selling women's underwear and cosmetics. The kingdom's sole exceptions are the few all-female shopping centres.
King Abdallah's government last year ordered lingerie shop owners to hire all-female sales staff by next month. In 2007, the policy was to have been extended to stores selling dresses and abayas (the black robes worn by women for modesty).
Posted by Robert at May 16, 2006 6:21 AM
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So what is new?
This news story does not suprise me, considering that Saudi Arabia is trying to look good to the USA and the west. I do not know how the men over in that country, Saudi Arabia, can live with themselves selling women's underware.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at May 16, 2006 6:31 AM
All those Arab men working in ladies' underwear.
Knickers are down at Abdullah's, so they say.
Posted by: Interested at May 16, 2006 6:38 AM
Interested,
Do you remember that old Two Ronnies sketch where they were shoemakers in Old Baghdad?
They got arrested for putting up a notice saying, "Cobblers to the Caliph".
Lord, you wouldn't be able to screen such a harmless joke in these sad politically correct times.
Posted by: Yojimbo at May 16, 2006 6:48 AM
Yojimbo, these days you couldn't even make a film about the Khasi of Kalabar.
Posted by: Interested at May 16, 2006 6:56 AM
Actually, AFAICT, this one is a bit misleading, becaue one sees "lingerie" in the title and jumps to the conclusion that it is significant.
In fact, it's not that the Saudis have some hang-up about women's knickers, Muslims being, as we know, sexually odd. It's that they have a hang-up with the idea of women working in paid employment, Muslims being, as we know, uncomfortable with the idea of female independence. (I know this is a generalization, and Iran, for example, is somewhat different, but that is a difference of degree not kind.)
The significance of the women's underwear here is merely that it would be an obvious thing for women to be allowed to sell, if they were to be allowed gainful employment at all. But obviously women gaining such independence would be a step towards "immorality and hellfire". Heck, whatever next? They might start thinking they were worth less than half a man.
Posted by: Yojimbo at May 16, 2006 7:01 AM
Men in lingerie shops?
Prudish Americans should be shocked, shocked!!!!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at May 16, 2006 8:13 AM
Grand Mufti Shaikh Abdel-Aziz al-Sheikh, who has denounced them as "steps towards immorality and hellfire".
Yeah, how else will all those muslim boys ever get their dirty little hands on women's panties if they can't work in lingerie shops. Perverts!
Posted by: CelticCoyote at May 16, 2006 9:45 AM
This is perverse, not perverted. To show respect for a woman, they force her to discuss her underwear with a man -- or take underwear out of his hands? Even a lot of non-Muslim women would be embarrassed by such a transaction. Or is the woman not even permitted to participate in the purchase? Does her ever-present male escort do that?
Posted by: Columba at May 16, 2006 9:56 AM
There IS a push to employ women in shops selling feminine products - clothing, cosmetics, beauty products. And the drive to employ women is running into problems.
Everyone here is assuming that Saudi men are working in the shops. The reality is that it is mostly TCN ex-pats. In general, ex-pats in these types of jobs are more reliable, more productive, and most importantly, less expensive. And an extra benefit is that ex-pats will clean up after themselves. Generally, Saudis will not.
jay stevens
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
at May 16, 2006 10:21 AM
Our good and solid ally the Saudis are cracking down, not just on women's lingerie, but also on women's faces.
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) -- Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, under pressure from Islamists to curb reforms, has warned local media against showing pictures of Saudi women, local newspapers reported on Tuesday.
Many [Ed.: I guess the phrase "The vast majority of.." is getting too worn out] Saudis have said they hope the king, who came to power last year, will loosen strict political and social mores in the ultra-conservative kingdom which imposes an austere version of Islam called Wahhabism.Posted by: special_guestNewspapers have ... begun printing photographs of Saudi women beside stories, usually with hair covered but faces showing, which many Wahhabi Islamists consider morally wrong.
[The King said] "There are photographs published in some newspapers ... and one needs to think if he would want his daughter, sister or wife to appear like that. Of course, no one would. Young people are driven by emotion and the spirit, but the spirit can go astray. So I ask you to go easy on these things."
at May 16, 2006 11:29 AM
special_guest,
Thank you for the news article above. The Wahhabism Islam that the Saudis pratice is why I also call it Taliban Islam, but of all the branches of Islam that is the least women-friendly, it is the Wahhabi branch.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 16, 2006 11:36 AM
Thanks bigcatgirl13106. I have given up trying to understand the different sects of Islam. Wahhabism is Sunni, but Iran is Shi'ite but Iran is very restrictive of women, but Iraq under Saddam was Sunni but was relatively (for the Middle East) not restrictive of women, but Iraq after Saddam is Shi'ite but is trying to institute Shar'ia which is restrictive of women...
I am beginning to think the Wahhabism thing might be just a diversionary tactic.
Posted by: special_guest at May 16, 2006 11:54 AM
The Iranians do permit women to work. Heck, there are even women police:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8071337793166478323
But don't anyone jump on me - since so much else is wrong with Iran, it's hardly an endorsement of the country to point that out.
Posted by: Yojimbo at May 16, 2006 12:17 PM
Maybe they don't want women in there because after hours they like to try on the lingerie and thongs and don't want women to see them.
Posted by: freewoman at May 16, 2006 1:18 PM
Jesus H., free, that was more information than I needed to know.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at May 16, 2006 3:12 PM
Wasn't there a musical called "The Desert Thong"?
Posted by: Interested at May 16, 2006 3:15 PM
We three kings of Leicester Square
Selling ladies underwear
How fantastic
No elastic
Only a penny a pair
We should actually have been singing We Three Kings of Orient Are.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 16, 2006 6:06 PM
Chick lit: "Embarrassing Moments" by Lucy Lastic.
Posted by: Interested at May 16, 2006 7:01 PM
Grand Mufti Shaikh Abdel-Aziz al-Sheikh, he is just a jealous old man, he would rather go in the lingerie store and make out with the clerk! no fun if its a women clerk! good ol muslim man prefer young men!
Posted by: Lulu at May 16, 2006 9:32 PM
Edible panties to Mecca!
Edible panties to Mecca!
Licorice thongs will defeat them!
And pastille pasties!
Let the sensual smorgasbord begin!
(And no clues left for the Religious Police to find.)
Posted by: profitsbeard at May 17, 2006 12:48 AM
OK, OK, enough already with the underwear jokes.
Yes it's funny in a twisted, depressing sort of way, but look at the grim reality:
Here's yet another Islamic example of total repression and a unilateral culture, as if we need any more examples. These places can never be normal until they let women elevate themselves out of "livestock" status.
What a colossal waste. They've dehumanized half their humanity, and they're fretting in the newspapers about "immorality & hellfire" for printing a photo of a Saudi woman. Talk about living under a rock.
Augh! what a dismal prospect.
Posted by: corax at May 17, 2006 2:38 AM
beardy kaftan men selling sexy lingerie to females covered in 'portable seclusion'... just get your mind around that...let it sink in!
What utter stupidity!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at May 17, 2006 7:54 AM
The 'Religious Policeman' touched on this topic recently. Apparently the men who work in ladies' lingerie, and perfume and make-up, shops, for some obscure reason, always seem to be Lebanese.
Posted by: wallyUK at May 17, 2006 8:57 PM
Int. Day.
A lingerie shop in Riyadh. A woman, dressed in a black burkha, approaches the male sales clerk.
Woman: I'd like to buy a bra, please.
Clerk: Certainly, but I need to know your exact size.
Woman: I'm not sure, I haven't bought a bra for some time. My size may have changed.
Clerk: That's no problem. The imam has taught me a foolproof way to guage a woman's precise measurements. Please reamin perfectly still while I place my hands on your breasts.
And that's the real reason women aren't allowed to sell lingerie. It would spoil the fun.
Posted by: Xerxes at May 18, 2006 12:20 PM
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