In Baghdad today, we are witnessing the future of Europe--Islam unleashed.

Posted by: Stendec at May 16, 2006 7:17 PM

This is what I think:

America at Saudi Arabia's secret bequest invaded Iraq in order to get rid of a secular regime and impose a sharia Islamic state.

Posted by: Voltaire at May 16, 2006 7:20 PM

Yeah, nothing would thrill the Saudis more than a Shia theocracy on their border

Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 16, 2006 7:35 PM

Disgusting

We asked the Iraqis to support us, the Americans, in the removal of Saddam Hussein. Many Iraqis of goodwill did just that. Now what.

A refusal by the Americans to recognize and CONTROL armed militias. I have heard from several reliable sources that the existence of these armed militias, Shia and Sunni, as well as other groups, almost completely undermines the development of a real government. A government cannot function IF the country is swarming with militia.

At one point, the US had declared that it would "get" Moqtada, the Shia rogue, now it seems to have changed its mind.

I now, sadly, tend to agree with Robert Spencer that Iraq simply lacks the political culture necessary for democracy. The "tradition" of political violence is too strong, and there does not appear to be anyone to stop it.

After Bush's immigration speech last night, I have had it with him. It took quite a bit to wear down this former Bush supporter but there you have it.

Heaven help us, we need leadership so badly and I don't know where it going to come from.

Posted by: Athena at May 16, 2006 8:11 PM

This may explain some of the confidence of Ahmadinejad. He seems to know something that the idiotic Bush administration does not: theocratic, Shia jihadist, his allies, are already well armed, numerous, and on the ground in Iraq, consolidating power, and perhaps very nearly ready to turn on their American and British benefactors.

Does anyone remember the surprise of the Tet offensive?

Posted by: JTF at May 16, 2006 8:24 PM

I've posted this theme more than once - We are spending out treasure and the lives of America's finest for Taliban Lite. This is disgusting. GWB is the most disappointing human being I have ever voted for. Such promise, such hope, such crap!

We can all honestly debate the strategic value of invading Iraq without resorting to calling Bush a liar about WMD in the same manner historians debate the invasion of the Philippines in WW2, or Pelielu or the Hurtgen Forest.

When the "Lessons Learned Safety Meeting" is held, I believe one lesson is that Islam and democracy (as Americans know it) do not mix. The Middle East in general and Iraq in particular will only be "democratic" when there is no Islam. Let them stew in their own juices and perhaps Islam will die from within. Or we can nuke'em now. Sooner or later we will have to start shooting. I see no end without massive bloodshed. Five, ten, thirty years, who knows, I sure don't. I plan on carrying a gun and wearing brown pants.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 16, 2006 8:44 PM

Robert was right on the money, and it ain't just in Iraq of course. If Washington wants it for them, they will definitely do the opposite.

It's almost sad how the spinners on both Afghanistan and Iraq tries to portray both as a victory for Democracy, in spite of Sharia being the law of the land.

Posted by: amana39 at May 16, 2006 8:46 PM

I supported the Iraq war up until now, when I realized that the president is not prepared to win this war, just like American was not prepared to actually win Viet Nam. America is not prepared to take the gloves off and let them have it in a way that will mean military victory.

As far as democracy is concerned, well that is impossible in this culture. To islam, democracy is a four-letter Jewish word. The word democracy to them is like the word theocracy to us.

What we need to do is pull out and install a brutual secular dictator that will subdue the population. Someone who understand the arab mind. Someone who can keep a tight lid on islamic fundamentalism. Someone who is a little twisted himself, just twisted enough to put the fear of Allah into every wannebe terrorist in Iraq.

But where do you find such a man? Hmmmm...

Posted by: somethingaboutislam at May 16, 2006 9:29 PM

But where do you find such a man? Hmmmm...

Posted by: somethingaboutislam

Excellent!
Ya know, I've had the same thoughts.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 16, 2006 10:08 PM

Voting does not a democracy make!

Our stupid politicians may think it does but it doesn't. Look at Iraq, look at Hamas! What a joke!

The west should try to stop bringing democracy to countries that don't understand it, and don't want it. Let them stew in their own juice,,if only!

Now they can laugh and tell us,,,"we had a free election and look what happened! The people voted for us!"

Islam is not compatible with democracy. It is a "religion" that doesn't promote free thinking.

They are too primitive and too tribal. Western democracy has been fought for, and evolved over time.
These people deny the passage of time - medieval thinking prevails - and have only fought against infidels and themselves. They wouldn't know freedom or democracyif it fell on them.

Sadly they know how to use it against us when they dwell in our space.

Posted by: Gramfan at May 16, 2006 10:18 PM

If the war's aim was to depose dictator Saddam and determine the status of his WMD program, then the pull-out of soldiers could have begun with the first national elections.

If the Iraqis can't stop fighting and killing one another over their religious schisms, that's not our problem. (They've been at it since the Sunnis and Shi'ites split, circa 700 A.D..)

But the "mission creep" and lack of hard, clearly-stated, restricted strategic / tactical goals has led into the messy impasse that allows the coalition to waste its troops and time trying to bail out a sinking Sharia boat with a "democratic" sieve.

"Know your enemy before your strike."

Which simply means: know human nature.

The deepest needs of the animal psyche- for dominance, group security, comforting 'idols of the tribe', etc. that underlie all of the apparent "truths" blessing the brutal behaviors that result.

Or, even easier: Know thyself. (If you dare.)

The reptilian, mammalian and human.

Islam, two out of three.

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 16, 2006 11:35 PM

It is clear that Iraq was far better off under the radically secularist dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and his mixed Muslim/Christian cabinet than under the US imposed Islamic regime that now governs Iraq.

The US and its European allies first imposed Islamic terror regimes in Bosnia and Kosovo to the destruction of the Christian communities of those areas. Now they've done the same to Iraq, and hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled to Syria as refugees. I am completely ashamed to be an American.

Posted by: Provoslavni at May 17, 2006 12:33 AM

Not only a vicious totalitarian ideology that systematically oppresses others, but it oppresses its own women, and it won't let even let people have a beer.

Islam has to be the worst blight ever to descend on the planet. It's like an ideological phylloxera virus laying waste to the human world.

Posted by: Yojimbo at May 17, 2006 5:19 AM

radically secularist dictatorship of Saddam Hussein

That might be going a bit far. He did have a copy of the Koran written in his own blood. And he was not too secular not to want to fulfil the modern Islamic apocalyptic dream of destroying Israel with nuclear weapons. Thank goodness the Israelis took out the ozirak nuclear reactor.

Posted by: Yojimbo at May 17, 2006 5:22 AM

Slightly OT:

Slightly OT: CNN.com has a headline news story today (05-17-06) reporting that the Big Handjob of Iran is asking whether the EU "thinks that they are dealing with a 4 year old child." Uh, no. They aren't dealing with a 4 year old child. They are dealing with a 2 year old baby.

*********************************************

Sharia in Baghdad.... for this we let Bush kill 2,500 troops? And 17,000 have been seriously maimed? And 25% of them will have PTSD for the rest of their lives? How many of them are going to "go McVeigh" on us?

But oh, how certain people criticized Kerry's "The wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time." Oh, how he HATED the troops. Not at all like the noble President Gump who loved the troops sooooo much that he's sent them to die... in order to let the Iraqis vote their way into a Sharia hellhole.

And yes, Infidel Pride, the Saudis WILL be thrilled to have a Sharia state at their border. Nevermind that it's Shi'ite. Saddam was the only serious threat they faced. And, oddly enough, the only serious threat that Iran faced. And Kuwait... Let's see, there's a madman who lets women be judges, attorneys, and doctors in his nation... he massacred the Kurds, who were basically the Taliban West, he killed 500,000 Iraniacs in the 80s... he invaded Kuwait and Saudi was next. Yep, we'd better take him out.

The idiot GOP is 100% Personality Cult with His Majesty King Dhimmbya as their Kim Il Jong.

The first step to recover is admitting you have a problem... any confessors?

fanorollins@yahoo.com

Posted by: kj at May 17, 2006 8:24 AM

Yay, KJ is back!

Posted by: Voltaire at May 17, 2006 8:31 AM

Peoples,

Take a good look at what is happening in Iraq. It is shaping Amerikan values and Amrikan history.

Amrika does not know how to win, if it wasn't clear in Vietnam ...it is clear in Iraq.

Soldiers drive around in Iraq, letting the eastern breeze touch their blonde hair with dark green Rayban glasses around their lobster red faces, chewing gum & saying "howdy padner" to Arabs who do not understand english, democracy or both.

Why then is the Amrikan there? What are his goals, his objectives and more importantly if he is not leaving...then I want him there to protect my right to spread the language of checks and balances ...SHARIA.

OK these GIs need to look in the mirrors of thier Abraham tanks and see the history of Amrika reflected back.

In 50 years time, you will see this scene again in Amrika...only the civilian will be Amrikan (paying Jizya), the soldier will be muslim (paid by the Jizya) and the law will be sharia.

The granddaugthers of Caroline, SusanP, Sofia, Champ, Shinolite,Gorniak, CosmicAvenger, Proud Infidel, Eisenhund and Foehammer (to mention just a few) will be wearing the famed jilbab and talking in the national language of Amrika...Arabic.

Remember peoples... this scene happened because 50 years ago...Amrika could not win against the Mahdi army...because they didn't know how/were not allowed to.

By the fruits that they eat shall you recongnise your grand childrens....

the fruits of Sharia....ENJOY!

Posted by: Naseem at May 17, 2006 8:52 AM

naseem,yesterday you could actually spell America,what happined?you must have switched people again.In 50 years islam will be dead.You talk about whether our army is allowed to win or not,yes we have an idiot president,that wont let them.But,you have forgot them main thing thats gunna stop islam.The American public.230 yrs ago,a bunch of farmers took on the largest military in the world,and womped their a**.If there would have been an America then,islam would have been died before it started.

Posted by: patriot4 at May 17, 2006 10:06 AM

Hey Nazz;

You made a list of who's who in your post. I'm shocked that I didn't make the list. I guess that you figuered that any offspring of mine would would be like me and would gladly give their life/lives for the cause of liberty and freedom. And to never bow down to any kind of dhimmi, caliphate, sharia rule of law.
Thank you for the compliment.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at May 17, 2006 11:35 AM

The Iraqis have a constitution that they wrote. They have an elected parliament that has just recently formed a government. The Iraqi armed forces are as trained as they ever are going to be. Saddam is sitting in jail and the Bathist supporters are scattered like dust in a desert sandstorm.

Mission accomplished.

It is time to withdraw the troops.

Nothing more can be done for Iraq.

Posted by: GFB at May 17, 2006 12:52 PM

Assalamau-Laikum Gornaik,

Wow, without realising it I seem to have hit a raw nerve there....sorry about that....keep calm...no need to smash that monitor screen.

What nationaility R U ...Gornaik sounds a bit Indian (while it lasts).

Gornaik, no need to take it out on me....I'm just the messenger to wish you Islamic peace.

The peoples of the world will be blessed with it...why not you, learn how Islam can benefit you.

Posted by: Naseem at May 17, 2006 3:55 PM

Does anyone else remember when a Beer bomb was a frat party trick where you puncture the bottom of a beer can and open the top and let the beer shoot down your throat?

Posted by: SnowDawg at May 17, 2006 7:11 PM

Yojimbo,
Saddam was an evil dictator. The world is full of them, but he was no Islamist. Like most politicians, he would play to the Muslim masses if it was to his advantage, such as putting Allahu Akhbar on the Iraqi flag.

Still, it is obvious that the only other Muslims he trusted were members of his own Tikriti clan. That's why the non-Tikritis in his cabinet seemed to be overwhelmingly Christians. The Christians weren't a threat to seize power away from him and the Tikritis were loyal. He clearly did not practice Islam in any recognizable way and one of his daughters is reported to have been engaged to a Christian at the time of his overthrow.

Clearly, an Islamic Iraq is going to be a greater threat to Israel than Saddam ever was. Iraq, like Kuwait and Jordan are not real nations anyway. They are just creations of western colonialism and should be abolished and replaced with ethnically based states.

As for Jordan, it was probably a mistake that the Hashemites weren't given the Caliphate after the overthrow of the Ottomans. That would have had an interesting impact on modern Islam that would have to be better than the Saudi financed Wahabhi dominance we see today.

Posted by: Provoslavni at May 18, 2006 10:13 AM

Ext. Day.

A woman, dressed in traditional islamic garb, with only her eyes showing, walks down a street accompanied by her male escort. They pass a group of construction workers, who watch the couple with keen interest. One of the workers turns to his friend:

Worker: Wow! Hot eyes.

And that is why burkhas cannot prevent lust.

Posted by: Xerxes at May 18, 2006 12:37 PM

Aplogies. The above post would've made more sense on the "Stop Showing Pictures of Women" thread, which is actually where I meant to post it.

I have also posted a short script on the "Lingerie" thread.

Posted by: Xerxes at May 18, 2006 12:41 PM

naseem, you sound like a witch doctor who says that getting cancer is good for you. Islam is a blight that if it does not reform itself will be eradicated.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at May 18, 2006 11:28 PM