"the council has to be sensitive to how residents of other nationalities would react to England flags being displayed."

Is this a joke? The people of other nationalities are LIVING IN ENGLAND! My husband is from the UK (Scottish), and it is these types of stories that have put him off us ever returning to the UK to live. If people of other nationalities find the display of the English flag so offensive (during the World Cup, no less), why are they living in England?

Of course, I'm sure the real reason they might be offended is because of the cross on the flag--not the nationality that the flag symbolizes.

Posted by: kaffirchick at June 2, 2006 3:22 PM

The world is at war folks. It won't be long now before concern about "offending" anybody will take a back seat to concern about how they are getting their weapons and ammunition that they are using to kill us and our families within our own borders.

New York. Washington, DC. Pennsylvania. Madrid. London. Bali. Kenya. Tanzania. Moscow. Beslan. Delhi. Tel Aviv. ...

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at June 2, 2006 3:52 PM

This is absolutely insane. Some British citizens not allowed to fly the flag of their country IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY? Yet another piece of evidence showing what a crock of excrement political correctness and multi-culturalism are and why they should be defied and opposed at every step.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at June 2, 2006 4:21 PM

These incidents keep cropping up, and the authority concerned always backs down in the face of a public opinion which is very pro England flags. There are loads round my way, on cars and houses, belonging to black, white and (as Asian is misleading for omitting the far east, and sheltering a certain group under the Sikh, Indian, Sri Lankan umbrella) neighbours of Indian sub continental heritage. There will that do!
On my own jacket I have a rather neat England flag brooch shaped like a football shirt which I bought in the cancer relief shop.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 2, 2006 4:28 PM

Perhaps it's too late for a 'do over,' "We'll take a Hirsi and give you Dearborn," but how about taking in all the Christians and Jews from Euroabia, take the art, military ect, and give them Islam. Perhaps the US of A is the only last hope for mankind.

Posted by: biorabbi at June 2, 2006 4:28 PM

Just remove that silly red cross, and fly the white flag that remains! What a crew of Dhimmi's to forbid the flying of the English flag in Salford, ...... (wait for it!) ......England. If I lived there, I'd be flying the cross of ST. George 24/7! How about it? Britons, never,never, never shall be slaves?

Posted by: MP at June 2, 2006 4:37 PM

From the article: "...the flags... can seriously compromise the health and safety of our own employees and members of the public."

How? I didn't know flags could be dangerous. Do they recklessly jump up and strangle the unsuspecting? Do they michieviously twist themselves into blindfolds for drivers? Are they impregnated with some deadly poison? Do they burst into flame when gazed upon?

Here's a classic and pathetic case of inability and/or unwillingness to identify the real source of a problem.

The maintenance firm is in effect saying, "Let's blame those darn flags ... let's redirect our fears from those elements which are difficult to control to those elements which are within our grasp."

Posted by: Jen at June 2, 2006 4:48 PM

I realize that encouraging others to defy their bosses may seem insincere, I'm not sure I would do it at all, but surely the best thing that could happen would be for someone to do just that, and make a helluva story out of it - "Brit sacked for flying the flag," or however the tabloids would put it. Presenting such a clear case of PC absurdity would speak volumes in the public.

More and more I believe that cracking the PC ice age requires high profile news, ranging from exposing the absurdities to, sadly, riots and worse. During the reporting by Al-BBCera on 7/7 last year I got the impression that they had temporarily suspended their language codes. Don't know if this was in fact the case, but I hope at some point a point of no return is reached by the media. Then the debate may begin about what the heck to do.

Posted by: anti-uffe at June 2, 2006 4:54 PM

The moment that I read this I went and rootled around in my junk cupboard and unearthed my Cross of St. George Flag and my Union Jack. I then hung them in my windows. Tommorrow I am going to buy one for the car. I have absolutely no interest in football at all but from now on the flags are out and they are d****d well staying out.

How dare they!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at June 2, 2006 4:57 PM

"However, Salford is increasingly becoming a multi-cultural city and the council has to be sensitive to how residents of other nationalities would react to England flags being displayed."

Multi-cultural, OK. But one nationality, surely.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at June 2, 2006 5:00 PM

Dominic
I got mine in the local in and out shop, 99p, but they have some nice quality ones in Sainsburys.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 2, 2006 5:10 PM

These English ladies show cultural sensitivity - with the cross of St. George (scroll down a couple of pages):
http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=94702

Posted by: johnb at June 2, 2006 5:13 PM

Ah, such youth!

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 2, 2006 5:25 PM

Multi-cultural, OK. But one nationality, surely.

On the face of it, unless they meant foreign nationals staying in Salford, it was a strange comment to make.

But I'd suggest there actually is a not-fully-conscious recognition that sovereignty, law, and culture are not wholly separate, and it comes out in confused statements like the one you cite. (When I say not-fully-conscious, I'm not referring to an "unconscious" here - merely to a confused and hazy recognition of things that people haven't properly understood and thought through.)

The confusion is revealing. What "multiculturalism" amounts to is an attempt to give different communities separate political identities. ("Multiculturalism" isn't about cookery or clothing, but about this, or it is about nothing.) So "multiculturalism" is ultimately a challenge to political allegiance (as symbolized by the flag).

It results in the creation of "states within a state" (enclaves as they call them in the U.S.) - which is a very dangerous thing to do and likely to lead to civil war. This is why the disastrous and ill-thought-out ideology of multiculturalism should have its assumptions exposed and questioned before they do any more damage to the social fabric in Western countries. There are a couple of essays with some interesting thoughts on sovereignty and how it is underpinned by "pre-political loyalties" in The Philosopher on Dover Beach.

Posted by: Yojimbo at June 2, 2006 5:37 PM

"The draconian line taken by New Prospect – in charge of Salford City Council’s stock of 27,000 council homes – has infuriated workers who simply want to demonstrate their support for the national team."

1: Every worker and resident of Salford should simply disobey this asinine rule and display the Flag of Saint George everywhere. Make sure that there is no where in Salford that the idiot John Rule and his goons go that they won't be confronted by the Saint George Cross.

2: If a single worker is fired or even reprimanded for disobeying John Rule's rule, every worker should go on strike in solidarity.

3: If Rule tries to enforce this, the England football team should announce that they refuse to play the World Cup until this regulation is repealed and John Rule is fired. This kind of gutsy action by the English team would show principle and would rally every fan in England to support not only the workers of New Prospect but the team as well.

4: If idiot John Rule really believes that displaying the flag "can seriously compromise the health and safety of our own employees and members of the public" then maybe some young fans should show him that NOT allowing the display of the flag "can seriously compromise the health and safety" of one assistant director of property services.

Posted by: Provoslavni at June 2, 2006 6:03 PM

"The St George's Cross, a red cross on a white background, is the national flag of England and was adopted for the uniform of English soldiers during the military expeditions by European powers to recapture the Holy Land from Muslims"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._George's_cross

I will be buying one tomorrow

Posted by: Sebastien at June 2, 2006 6:03 PM

Try this link for the above

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George%27s_Cross

Posted by: Sebastien at June 2, 2006 6:08 PM

Of course, one does not just have to get mad; one can get even too.

If anyone here is British and happens to be passing an 'anti-war' or 'pro-Palestine' demonstration in one of England's major cities (they are almost weekly occurrences), there will undoubtedly be a plethora of Palestinian flags - or maybe the odd crescent here or there.

Simply complain to the police and demand that they be removed from view. The police recently used a by-law to prevent demonstrators at a free speech rally from flying the Cross of St George in Trafalgar Square (significantly, this by-law appeared not apply to those bearing the Pally flag), so there are clearly powers available to the police.

There are those who complain that the Cross of St George is inextricably linked to the far-right; consequently its display is discouraged or banned by over-zealous bureaucrats or self-loathing liberals.

The 'Palestinian' cause, however, is seized upon by every jihadist on the planet and used to justify unspeakable acts of violence. By that token, I'd say the Palestinian flag is pretty offensive too, no?

Posted by: TAoL at June 2, 2006 6:13 PM

The PC crowd claims that we are all one, that we cannot distinguish by such racist terms as "Pakistani immigrants" or "Egyptian immigrants". They are British "youths" just like anyone else. It would be racist to suggest otherwise.

But the PC crowd simultaneously knows it would "seriously compromise health and safety" to suggest to the Pakistani immigrants or Egyptian immigrants that they are British "youths" just like everyone else. That would also be racist and insensitive.

"They" are just like "us", except for G*d's sake, don't tell "them" they are like "us", or "they" will kill "us".

Posted by: special_guest at June 2, 2006 6:16 PM

I'm sorry. If this keeps happening, and increasing, then nobody has the right to criticize the BNP. Stop acting like bloody fools, then you have the right to criticize the BNP : Not before then.

Posted by: Television at June 2, 2006 6:23 PM

With bureaucrats this simple and short-sighted, I think you could confuse and bewilder them by flying the English flag upside down.

If flying one's national flag in that same nation can cause mayhem, something has already gone rotten. Cut away the gangrene and cauterize the wound. Maybe showing the flag will remind people which country and society they live in.

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at June 2, 2006 6:41 PM

If this keeps happening, and increasing, then nobody has the right to criticize the BNP.

Not terribly logical, that. We who actually know about the BNP do indeed have a right to criticise it. That right is independent of our right to criticise Islam, the other form of Fascism in the UK today.

Electing a neo-Nazi party would not be a proportionate response to a bit of silly political correctness on the part of a local council. Most of these stories about local councils turn out to be of the Nat West piggy bank/Christmas lights ban type. That is, if not actually untrue, they are usually resolved after protest.

Hardly a reason for supporting the BNP. Not everyone needs a reason, of course.

Posted by: Interested at June 2, 2006 7:22 PM

Headscarves and mosques are what should be banned. These people have some whacked out world view, these Muslimists.

Posted by: Prickzilla at June 2, 2006 8:10 PM

I am not offended by the Union Jack, the French Tri Color, or any other national flag flown by a national of the country. If a foreigner is so offended by the possibility of seeing a foreign flag being flown, they should not leave their own country. Why ascede to their insane prejudices? I am not a citizen of the U.K., but I would say fly St. George high as well as the Union Jack.

Posted by: Worry at June 2, 2006 8:35 PM

I would be interested to what you "know" about the BNP Interested. I am an American and I visit their site daily and I see no evidence of Nazism but a lot of common sense and a growing political clout that could do something abount the Islamic problem. Are you a Labourite believing that Tony Blair's bozos still represent the working class instead of their own self interest? This banning the flag of St. George looks like it comes right out of the Labour party's stance as spineless dhimmis.
You use the same "attack the person" instead of what he has to say approach that the muslims take.Go get your daily dose of BBC.

Posted by: Briars at June 2, 2006 9:19 PM

I don't know if England might be playing Saudi in the world cup but when they see all those red crosses of St George in the stadium, the Arabs will think the Crusades are back on.

Posted by: wallyUK at June 2, 2006 9:40 PM

Adding to Sofia's list, I seem to remember stories here on JW of things "offending Asians":

pig figurines in store windows
Saracen pictures on .... pub placards(?)

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at June 2, 2006 10:48 PM

I am an American and I visit their site daily...

Not even "I'm an American but I visit the site daily", or, better still, "I'm American, so you probably know better since you actually live there, but their website says..."

Yes, their website. Well, if it's on their website, it must be true. Just as what Muslims say about Islam on their websites must be true.

The Klu Klux Klan have re-branded themselves. I'm English. I visit their website. They're OK really. What do you Americans know? You only live there.

Posted by: Interested at June 2, 2006 11:05 PM

This sounds like it's welfare housing refusing to let natives put out flags because it might offend nonnative welfare cases?

What kind of people are being allowed to immigrate?

In the immortal words of President Bush, they're probably just "good people who just come here to leech off the welfare state"?

Posted by: treehugger at June 2, 2006 11:12 PM

Britons! Fly the flag. Multiculturalism be damned! Take back your country. Crush the beast before it kills your nation.

Posted by: Lepanto at June 3, 2006 12:10 AM

On my property I fly the American flag over the Californian, and on separate flag poles i fly the St. George flag and the Danish flags. They contrast in a neat way. I also have a St Andrew flag... but as my grandmother use to say, "That's the scotch in me."
And she didn't drink.

Posted by: JaimeZepeda at June 3, 2006 12:29 AM

Briars: I admit I hadn't heard of the BNP until somewhat recently. I agree that it's hard to find anything objectionable on a quick jaunt through their website, although there is this last little nugget from the 2005 abbreviated "manifesto" (any outfit issuing a "manifesto" tends to have me reaching for a grain of salt):

http://www.bnp.org.uk/candidates2005/manifesto/manifesto_abbrev.pdf

We will never again involve British troops in any more American "wars for oil" or neo-con adventures on behalf of the Zionist government of Israel.

Looking beyond how the BNP sells itself, it is worth noting that, however moderate it wishes to position itself to win votes (a universally exploited political maneuver), its roots and history raise highly disturbing questions. For example, John Tyndall, was a member of the National Front, and founder of the neo-Nazi Greater Britain Movement (a splinter group from the National Socialist Movement).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Britain_Movement

Rotten tree => rotten fruit, in my opinion.

For that matter, other documentation exists of how not-really-moderate the BNP is. See the two items below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3901621.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/roots/1984.stm

From the second one:

When asked if the BNP was racist, [Deputy Leader Richard] Edmonds said, "We are 100 per cent racist, yes".

I hope this sheds some light for my fellow US readers on why singing the praises of the BNP raises such alarm in fellow readers in the UK and elsewhere.

Posted by: Shinoliite at June 3, 2006 12:38 AM

So when does the intrepid Tony Blair finally take the Shaddah? May the fools that destroyed the once great nation of Britain reap what they have sowen. Lord have mercy.

Posted by: abdulalshirk at June 3, 2006 12:49 AM

" the flags were inappropriate and 'can seriously compromise the health and safety of our own employees and members of the public'.

I have tried to keep a straight face.

I can't imagine how the union jack flag could cause health and safety problems for the Brits.

This is nothing less than misguided anti-Christian European political correctness run amok!

Posted by: Johnathan at June 3, 2006 3:40 AM

What kind of people are offended by the sign of a cross? Vampires?

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at June 3, 2006 5:38 AM

This is yet more evidence that the manufactured cartoon jihad has intimidated the Europeans and Brits into submission. Those Danish imams could never have imagined it would be this successful. To describe this as political correctness is wrong. Its a surrender. A total surrender.

Posted by: Mr Krabs at June 3, 2006 6:05 AM

people seem to be missing the point with regards to the english flag , in england with it,s 30 years of of forced multiculturism the cross of st george is the only symbol left to the ethnic anglo saxon people of england. it is our war flag it is our christian flag it is the only exclusive thing english people have left.it can only be flown by true ethnic english people nobody else has the right , that is why the left wing elite hate it why the labour councils hate it , the scots the welsh and the irish see it as the flag of a country that rules them , to the muslims it is the flag of the crusader a hated symbol throughout islam , it makes me feel proud to be a true englishman seeing the flag fly proud in face of all those who hate it long live england harry and st george njuk

Posted by: njuk at June 3, 2006 6:48 AM

So we're not allowed to display the English flag, but burning the Union flag in public and calling for another 9/11 is acceptable?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/18759971?source=PA#

"Muslim protesters today called for the bombing of New York in a demonstration outside the US embassy in London. "

"There were threats of "another 9/11" from militants angry at reports of the desecration of the Koran by US troops in Iraq."

"Some among the crowd burned an effigy of Tony Blair on a crucifix and then set fire to a Union flag and a Stars and Stripes."

Posted by: Celsius at June 3, 2006 10:58 AM

from MP's post above:

"Just remove that silly red cross, and fly the white flag that remains!"

Brilliant!

Posted by: Infidel33 at June 3, 2006 12:46 PM

I don't care what Muslims in Britian may say about this matter..... the Union Jack is NEVER to be associated with the swastika.

End of discussion.

Posted by: Johnathan at June 3, 2006 3:40 PM

OT While much of the article in the link in saint_george's post is somewhat fair, the beginning statement is misleading:

"It is one of those strange ironies that the patron Saint of England is half Turkish and half Palestinian."

St. George was born in Cappadocia, centuries before the Turks would invade and occupy the land. His father was also from Cappadocia, a Roman Province in Anatolia. His mother was from the Philistine city of Lydda in the Roman province of Judea. St. George was a chiliarch (commander of a thousand) in the Roman military and a member of the Roman (Rum) Church. Emperor Diocletian had him tortured and when tortures could not persuade him to give up his Christianity, St. George was beheaded.

The Philistines were originally from Greece (check this in any encyclopedia) and are the ancestors of Palestinians. If you are going to anachronistically call St. George a Turk or a Palestinian, then please refer to me as a Frank, a Gaul, or a Saxon.

Later in the article, St. George is portrayed "... as a true follower of monotheism[.] Muslims regard him as dying in a state of submission to the One Creator. Or in Arabic – of dying in a state of Islam."

Those Christians living at the time of St. George's death, after the priest Arius began teaching that the Creator was part of creation, declared openly (Council of Nicea, A.D. 325) what the Church had always believed: The One God, the One Creator is a Trinity. Muslims say that Christians have changed our faith and often point to the Council of Nicea as where this supposed change took place. Even a brief study of the writings of Christians before the Nicene Council will show that the Christian faith remained unchanged. Some argue that Christians falsified ALL our history to hide the change. How huge a hoax that would be: altering every single record, written and archeological, across several languages and political divisions!

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at June 3, 2006 3:50 PM

Flying the flat of St George also seems to be a class issue in |UK (what isn't?). I read a letter to the editor of one of the broadsheets on the subject recently (sorry, didn't save a link) to the effect that the reader would be able to discern the 'chavs' from the humans by the flying of the flag of St George from their cars.

Pathetic.

I cannot believe a country is ashamed of its national flag. It's really beyond me.

Posted by: Silvester at June 3, 2006 7:49 PM

We will never again involve British troops in any more American "wars for oil" or neo-con adventures on behalf of the Zionist government of Israel.

Sometimes the BNP are off the mark, there anti-americanism seems a little hysterical, especially considering the lives and treasure the US has spent defending Britain.

The other sources from Wikipedia and the BBC, must be viewed in the context that these sources have already been found to be bias and predominantly in favor of Multiculturalism.

Posted by: km at June 4, 2006 2:48 AM

Interested- I think it is time for us to rekindle the old flames of KKK and Skin Heads,to face these Towel Heads.

Typical American..Towel Head!!!! In case you dont know towel heads is term generally apllied to Sikhs and Hindus...

BNP are racist FULL STOP... Say sofia you wanna see these skin heads come down to London and i'll take you to Feltham when Chelsea play Arsenal. I'm British and i'm brown... and to me both are important factors of my identity. As much as i hate Islamists, BNP are even worse. All I can say is that your imbecile comments only serve the purpose of turning away people from this website and diluting cerdibility of Robert's work.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 4, 2006 4:13 AM

Sometimes the BNP are off the mark, there anti-americanism seems a little hysterical, especially considering the lives and treasure the US has spent defending Britain. (raises eyebrow)

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 4, 2006 4:14 AM

All I can say is that your imbecile comments only serve the purpose of turning away people from this website and diluting credibility of Robert's work.

I don't think that could be put any better! ! !

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 4, 2006 4:50 AM

We will never again involve British troops in any more American "wars for oil" or neo-con adventures on behalf of the Zionist government of Israel.

Perhaps the fact that the BNP are anti-American is the only argument that will cut any ice with its supporters in the US. The above quotation will hopefully shut them up when they rear their ugly heads on this site, as they do with mind-numbing regularity.

Torn between their ignorance of and contempt for the UK, and their ignorance of and misplaced respect for its neo-Nazi party, they will disappear up their own backside.

Posted by: Interested at June 4, 2006 5:22 AM

Interested a lot of British are convinced the war with Islam is due to some Zionist/Neocon plot to seize the Middle East’s oil.

I listened to a lecture from Melanie Phillips who in light of the Multiculturalism that now pervades the UK stated that although Britain shows a military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for now. It is likely that when Blair is steps down, British Military support will likely be pulled due to the wide spread view that it is some Neocon plot.

So don't sit there thinking that this policy of the BNP's is some indicator that they are extreme neo Nazis, because that would make the majority of British neo Nazis in your book.

The principle facts are that the Jihad cannot win through solely military means; its principle weapon is one of the dawa and the use of the West's current laws and liberal tendencies to accept Islam as just another culture which will eventually fit in.

No other party in the UK recognizes this except the BNP and until they do the BNP has a legitimate message coming from a legal and established political party who now represent an ever increasing number of voters many of whom were formally conservative and labor voters.

Your knee jerk hysteria stops debate and aids in the spread of the dawa and consequently the Jihad. Until you can show that one other party in the UK officially recognizes the danger of Islam then you will continue to sound as if you already have disappeared up your own backside.

Posted by: km at June 4, 2006 11:20 AM

As I said above, those who want to support the BNP do not need a reason to do so, and will not change their mind whatever evidence is put before them, nor if their support damages the reputation of this website.

As Vikrant above makes clear, Hindus and Sikhs will be alienated from reading this site on seeing the BNP advocated. Perhaps more importantly, so will apostates, who, since they were originally Muslim, are likely to be non-white.

The testimony of apostates from Islam is one of the most valuable resources we have. Yet, if Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq or Ayaan Hirsi Ali lived here, the BNP would wish them deported.

Posted by: Interested at June 4, 2006 11:52 AM

As Vikrant above makes clear, Hindus and Sikhs will be alienated from reading this site on seeing the BNP advocated.

Well this Hindu nearly is... All the talk about BNP gaining popularity is bltant scaremongering. To be fair, methinks BNP would get get more votes in US rather than UK given the American ignorance bout us wogs.

But theres one thing they deserve credit for. Uniting Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims inspite of genetic hostility between Hindu-Sikhs and Muslims. Even those puesdo-secular minions of Nehru and Gandhi couldnt manage that!

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 4, 2006 12:27 PM

Well it appears that some Sikhs think differently. The Sikhs have long standing ties to the BNP.

http://xrl.us/SikhBNP

Interested appears histerical and has been shown on many occasions to distort the truth and be working from a particular agenda. I wonder if she is a member of the National union of Journalists?

The long and the short of it is the Sikhs recognize the utility of the BNP's message.

Posted by: km at June 4, 2006 12:57 PM

Vikrant, a Hindu is confirming exactly what I said, but this has no effect on you at all.

Interested appears histerical and has been shown on many occasions to distort the truth and be working from a particular agenda. I wonder if she is a member of the National union of Journalists?

Er....no....no....no and no. Apart from that, very sensible

Posted by: Interested at June 4, 2006 1:05 PM

ok so have 1 sikh in half a million on your side... so what? BNP are even allied with VHP (Vishwa Hindu Parishad) who make even them (BNP that is) look like third rate thugs. VHP afterall have done things to Muslims that BNP only dreams of doing on all browns.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 4, 2006 1:59 PM

The Sikhs have long standing ties to the BNP.

btw methinks those guys support BNP to 'buy' protection for their own community just like some Kashmiri Hindu lads used to fight alongside jehadis against 'occupation' to ensure Hindus remain unharmed. For all their pains they got bullets in their heads.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 4, 2006 2:02 PM

May I just interupt at this point to inform you good folk that the item above you are all discusing. From Salford, was brought to the attention of the Jihadwatch team by a BNP voter.
Whome it may be added is not racist in anyway whatsoever, but has seen that in the current world situation that patriotic nationalists and the BNP seem to be about the only people speeking out against the threat and coming under a great deal of abuse for doing so.
The only hope that was seen in Britain was the free expression movement that sprang up after the cartoon fiasco. Yet even that banned anything that would be offensive to muslims at their first rally. DHIMMIS!

Posted by: dizzyfatplonka at June 4, 2006 2:18 PM

Whome it may be added is not racist...

"Who", not "whom" and certainly not "whome".

Posted by: Interested at June 4, 2006 2:31 PM

Well you, not being a racist, may be happy to vote for them.
But members of my family had to leave a pub last week because a BNP candidate for their borough was leading the chant of "If they're black - send them back" followed by a rousing chorus of "There ain't no black in the Union Jack" (and they are just the ones that are repeatable here), and the BNP would have people we hold dear sent abroad purely because of the colour of their skin, and the birthplace of a grandparent, so I could not vote for them, no matter how tempting their blandishments.
As I keep saying, they are a tiger we cannot ride.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 4, 2006 3:11 PM

I wish to qualify my post above (June 3, 2006 03:50 PM), where I said:

The Philistines were originally from Greece (check this in any encyclopedia) and are the ancestors of Palestinians.

That Palestinians are related to the ancient Philistines or other Canaanite peoples is disputed. Many people think that there is only a feeble link between the two. I have one Cherokee ancestor. Does that make me a Native American?

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at June 4, 2006 3:47 PM

The articles about the BNP from the BBC of course would have a slant as would wikipedia which is changed by readers to reflect opinion as well as facts.

As for the KKK in the US according to the Tuskegee Institute the total lynchings in the US (including those not committed by the KKK) from 1890 thru 1969 was 2,911. That's over 80 years.
1890-1899 1,111
1900-1909 791
1910-1919 569
1920-1929 281
1930-1939 119
1940-1949 31
1950-1959 6
1960-1969 3

In New York alone during 1990 there were 2,605 murders. Most of which were black on black crime. In Baltimore City alone during 1990 there were 550 murders. Most of which were black on black crime also.

So other than the aftermath of the civil war the KKK is a lot of bluster. Including during the Great Depression, when if poverty leads to crime, should have been the worst. It is currently a group name to be called upon when someone wants to scream about moral equivalence. Like calling Blair or Bush "Hitler". They are less dangerous than the mafia. And way less dangerous than the MS-13 gang, the 'innocent' immigrants who are only looking for work.

Muslims murder thousands monthly. Just look at the statistics at http://www.thereligionofpeace.com and scroll down to the two "lists".

Algeria alone has suffered way over 100,000 murders by muslims in the last 10 years.

How many have the BNP murdered?

Of course 'multi-culti' British don't like anyone to say it's a majority anglo-saxon country and should stay that way. Just give it away to anyone who wants it, why don't ya. BE NICE!

You can come back from the right but you can never come back from islam.

FLY YOUR COUNTRY FLAG IN YOUR COUNTRY!

Posted by: Borg at June 4, 2006 9:23 PM

As far as "no oil" remarks that is what we hear constantly from the 'left'. The BNP is worse than islamists? You don't hear what the islamists are saying about you and yours in the hidden rooms where they plot. Not only will you be in their sights to target but all who are not with them will be targeted also. Make no mistake about that. Don't you remember that imam who said that he would kill every last person on the earth? The BNP only cares about what happens in England, while the muslims want the whole world.

You can come back from the right, but you can never come back from islam.

Posted by: Borg at June 4, 2006 9:35 PM

The BNP,who else is there who will stand up for our rights in a ever decreasing pit of dispair WHO please tell me i would love to know,i have no trust in the legal systems in the UK anymore its time for a change.In what direction do you think we should travel and with what party?it seems to me people need to grow a backbone and stop the race hate toward our english culture,be you black,white,yellow,brown or indigo.

Posted by: Laststand at June 4, 2006 10:26 PM

Oh snap... i'm off... cant bear to see my (once) favourite blog being taken over by chavs and rednecks.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 5, 2006 4:22 AM

Well there you go - one Hindu states openly that the support for a racist party has alienated him. How many more Hindus, Sikhs and Muslim apostates have those posters whom Vikrant rightly calls "chavs" and "rednecks" frightned away.

Well done, folks. The BNP/KKK would be proud of you.

Posted by: Interested at June 5, 2006 5:42 AM

Indeed.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 5, 2006 6:38 AM

VC needs to get a little thicker skin if he wants to help defeat islam.

ISLAM IS WORSE THAN ANYTHING ELSE ~ EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.

Posted by: Borg at June 5, 2006 9:42 AM

One last comment...

VC needs to get a little thicker skin if he wants to help defeat islam. ISLAM IS WORSE THAN ANYTHING ELSE ~ EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.

Dude do you even know whom you are talking to. My grandfather was thriown out of Islamic Republic of Pakistan with nothing more than a suitcase. My ancestors have been fighting Islam since 1500's and our hostility towards Islam is nearly genetic. What do you BNP pussies have got to show for yourself. Beating some old dear in a back alley or singing racist songs doesnt make one patriotic . In my books a non-citizen Hindu Gurkha who serves in the army is more patriotic than you chavs. Grow some balls mate...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 5, 2006 10:37 AM

VC~
Interested seems to think that you and others are frightened away from this site by comments about the BNP or the KKK. Nasty genital comments turn readers away also. And can get you deleted and banned. I didn't think any thing as simple as a comment that you disagree with would stop you from reading here. I have followed your comments here for a long time and I know about your family history because of that.

I am not a BNP supporter or a KKK 'supporter'. I just think that people here lose perspective and don't always see the biggest picture. Those organizations and others may have many things disagreeable about them but they are a blip on the radar of history compared to islam.

I pointed out historical facts regarding the KKK because, COMPARED TO ISLAM, people always bring it up as a comparative evil and I don't think it qualifies as anywhere near as bad in the big scheme of things. As far as the BNP they may be singing racists songs but that is the small picture. Just the fact that they have the nerve to speak out or sing out when others are pissing their pants may give others the nerve to speak up about what is happening.

That's the reason they need to exist. Think outside the box. They make the press notice them by their insulting ways and cause discussion to come out of the shadows. The media (BBC especially) and Hollywood put a big spin on things that are bad but that do not come close to the evil that is islam. These groups lash out as a response to what they perceive as threats to their way of life and harm to their families, which of course can and sometimes does lead to crime. Islam says it lashes out at oppression but we all know it is out to conquer the world not just protecting their family or their neighborhood.

This is a discussion about a thorn and a bullet. The KKK (does it even really exist anymore other than in minds of liberal people who love everybody except rednecks?) and the BNP may hurt and draw blood but it is a temporary pain and limited in scope compared to the wound of the bullet that is islam, which if not treated will usually kill all that it hits hard and will wound and permanetly scar and change forever those it touches but does not kill.

Your grandfather was thrown out of Pakistan because of Islam. Do you think he would have ever thought it would invade England? Don't you think if he had thought that he would have been screaming and insulting them from the rooftops years ago? Not just complaining to family? And been called names and been labeled an inslamophobe? By those who hadn't yet experienced what he had been through? Just like the Armenians?

Move away, move away, move away. Someday there will be no where to move to. What will your grandchildren suffer then? Will they be given a suitcase to nowhere or be murdered by the islamists? Or will they convert to survive?

You can come back from the right, you can never come back from islam.

ISLAM IS WORSE THAN EVERYTHING ELSE ~ EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY

Posted by: Borg at June 5, 2006 11:30 AM

Why is it that so many people are willing to admit that the situation Britain has gotten into now with Islam and terrorism. All want to attack the BNP. As a long time Labour voter im guilty by my vote of taking us down this road, as are the Tories and Lib/Dems. We are all collectively guilty of the blood thats being spilt now, because its our votes that has brought us here, where we are today, not the BNP but every main stream party that all you good people have voted for are the ones with blood on your hands and still voting for more of the same, in the delusional idea that they will correct things.

Oh and thankyou for pointing out my spelling mystake earlier interested, really great difference that has made to the mess we are in.

On the subject of Sikhs, hindus and muslims uniting due to the BNP, something that not even Ghandi could manage, Ghandi was a great man of peace but lets remember his mission was to unite his fellow countrymen and women to get the British out of their country. Now you are telling me that a mere 60yrs down the line, thats just one generations lifespan, they are now uniting against us in our own country?
Talk about give an inch take a mile, as I say it does not take racism to unite people, just having nowhere else to turn can manage it.

Posted by: dizzyfatplonka at June 5, 2006 2:45 PM

Oh and thankyou for pointing out my spelling mystake earlier interested...

Well, it's just a drop in the ocean, but every little helps.

Posted by: Interested at June 5, 2006 3:25 PM

I would hope that they would not unite. But in India the majority did elect a muslim. I don't know enough about the situation there except it is volatile.

Most people don't have time to find out enough to see what is coming. I hope the non-muslims go with their gut and stick together, regardless of ANY other differences.

In the past people didn't even have a radio to find out what was going on in the world and the expansion of islam was quick. The expansion is still going on just not at a quick pace. When will the leaders stop it? The average person may not know about islam but the leaders have no excuse.

Posted by: Borg at June 5, 2006 3:37 PM

What do you BNP pussies have got to show for yourself. Beating some old dear in a back alley or singing racist songs doesnt make one patriotic . In my books a non-citizen Hindu Gurkha who serves in the army is more patriotic than you chavs. Grow some balls mate...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 5, 2006 10:37 AM

Vikrant you’re sounding more hysterical than interested. The reason this site is called 'Jihad watch' is because it is a site dedicated to combating Islamic warfare.

These so called BNP pussies as you put it seem to be winning council seats and building a support base from traditional Tory and Labor voters that is a direct challenge to the dawa and jihad. Your invective insinuating that anyone who supports the BNP is some sort of braying hooligan is an insult to the many thousands of normal people who have been pushed into a corner and see no other way to stop the Islamic menace.

The point is that a state of war exists between Islam and the rest of the world and this site should provide a forum where all strategies pertaining to this war can be discussed and their effectiveness and merits weighed and quantified.

I don’t think anyone here would bring up the BNP should the other parties in the UK be addressing the issue, however it is blatantly obvious that this isn’t the case. The BNP provides a useful method for raising the issue of Islam within British politics and as such should be accommodated and its utility recognized.

I know of one British born Indian who at the last council elections voted for the BNP in one London borough. The councilor apparently did win the seat. When I questioned him about his choice of party his response was very similar to yours.

His father was chased from Kashmir and barely escaped with his life at the hands of Islamists. He recognizes the danger signs as they begin to appear within Europe and the UK and as such is prepared to act accordingly. He may not like the position he is in or the choice he has been asked to make, but he made it because he does understand the gravity of the situation.

War is never pleasant and during a war we are asked to do many things that normally we wouldn’t do. However this brave individual loves his adopted country so much he put his vote where his mouth his and voted to stop the dawa and Jihad taking place in Britain.

If you have another solution as to where he should have put his vote why don’t you let the people of the UK know. Until you have a solution stop tarring everyone who feels the same way as racists and bigots.

He and a few other people who I know voted for the BNP in the last council elections are as far from the stereotypes yourself, Interested and Granny portray the BNP to be as you could possibly get.

Understand that the people of Britain of all colors and ethnicities are tired of coming off second best to Islam. A sensible strategy would be to engage those people that recognize the utility of the BNPs message and find some common ground.

To not do so will just play into the hands of the Islamists and an enemy that wants nothing more than your submission, dhimmitude or death. Wake up to the real world you are at war, you are loosing and you need to do something about it.

Posted by: km at June 5, 2006 4:12 PM

What I find sad is that in the last paragraph of the story as posted, the "partner" of the New Prospect employee decries the banning of their team's flag. The Muslims seem to know what that red Cross of St. George symbolizes --actually WHO it symbolizes better than the British. They oppose it because THEY know who St. George served and worshipped. That's why they hate it, not because it is a team flag or even a country's flag. So sad. I had heard that you could hold a soccer match in most British and European churches on a Sunday without danger of the ball hitting the sparse number of worshippers. Maybe that was not such an exaggeration as I had thought it to be. Well I am sure St. George is glad to know that the Cross for which he died is still revered by Brits like that New Prospect employee and his/her "partner" --- rah, team, rah. But I would have more hope for England, for Britain and for the West if England were as devoted to her true Lord as to her football teams.

Posted by: bevc at June 5, 2006 6:37 PM

they are now uniting against us in our own country?

No they are uniting against racism. Why do you think there are so many Hindu-Muslim, Sikh-Muslim marriages here. In India even today if a Hindu were to marry a Muslim he'd excommunicated by the family or even worse... killed.

Dont mix patriotism and racism, it divides more than it unites...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 6, 2006 4:14 AM

These so called BNP pussies as you put it seem to be winning council seats and building a support base from traditional Tory and Labor voters

Yeah right idiots who dont even know how to vote in a council meeting... Just one council among hundreds is just a drop in the ocean if yiou ask me...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 6, 2006 4:22 AM

this site should provide a forum where all strategies pertaining to this war can be discussed and their effectiveness and merits weighed and quantified.

Stuff it... this site is highly western-centric. Just about 95% of Jihad incidents in India and elsewhere in Asia go unreported even here. Ofcourse who cares about 20 wogs getting killed in Kashmir when some Arabs-hopping-school-bus are all the hot news...

Adios

Vikrant

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 6, 2006 4:25 AM

Just one council among hundreds is just a drop in the ocean if yiou ask me...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar [TypeKey Profile Page] at June 6, 2006 04:22 AM

It is a start vikrant, why dont you tell us all what your solution is.

Stuff it... this site is highly western-centric. Just about 95% of Jihad incidents in India and elsewhere in Asia go unreported even here. Ofcourse who cares about 20 wogs getting killed in Kashmir when some Arabs-hopping-school-bus are all the hot news...

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar [TypeKey Profile Page] at June 6, 2006 04:25 AM

So now Robert Spencer is the racist, let’s get something straight here vikrant. Robert provides excellent coverage of the ongoing global Jihad and as far as I understand it, only three people work to maintain this site. Your assertion that there is a deliberate suppression of these events simply because they are ‘wogs’, is just ludicrous.

This site provides a forum for discussion of the global jihad and how to achieve its eventual defeat. Feel free to join in the discussion if you can keep your ad hominem attacks and mud slinging to your self, if you cant, I for one and I am sure others will not be concerned if we don’t see any more whining ill thought and factually incorrect post from your self. Your hysteria just makes you and this site look bad.

Posted by: km at June 6, 2006 11:19 AM

What do you have to say for yourself vicrantchazi?

Posted by: km at June 7, 2006 5:37 AM

I'm not implying that Robert is racist or anything like that, but there is definite bias against non-western reports... Fell free to continue discussion by mailing me vikrant.rhd[at]gmail.com, since i'm busy with my GCSE's i may not reply on time..

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 8, 2006 2:04 AM