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The new chief of the Muslim Council of Britain demonstrates his moderation, inviting the British to accept Islamic ways -- not just to "tolerate" them, you see, but to adopt them. From the Telegraph, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari was returning from Paris on the Eurostar when he heard the news that a 23-year-old east London Muslim had been shot in a terrorism raid. "I was stunned," he says. "I am chairman of the east London mosque and I come from Bangladesh - I know the families in the area well. The children may squabble in the playground and there are occasional drugs - but not terrorists."After 9/11 and 7/7, this area prided itself on being mature. We don't rant and rave."
Maturity, as opposed to ranting and raving, is good. But it also suggests that he holds to the same goal as that of the Al-Ghurabaa types, but is just slicker about it.
The day after Mohammed Abul Kahar, 23, and his brother Abul Koyair, 20, were arrested, Dr Bari was voted the new leader of the Muslim Council of Britain. Afterwards he went straight to Forest Gate, where the raid had taken place, and set up a make-shift office in a sari shop. He was shocked by what he heard."Two hundred and fifty policemen seemed too much - and why did the police need a five-mile exclusion zone for the raid? There was a sense that the police had completely over-reacted and huge frustration because there was so much misinformation," he says.
In the aftermath, the media carried stories saying that the brothers' parents had gone on a pre-booked holiday to Mauritius (some said Bangladesh); a couple of papers also published a photograph apparently showing a third brother standing next to a man wearing a fake bomb at a demonstration.
"First, we were told one brother shot another, then that the policeman's glove was too thick," Dr Bari says. "There were so many stories against the two young men. It is untrue that their parents went off on holiday and the man involved in the Danish cartoon protests was only a half-brother they barely knew.
"On the face of it, these guys are innocent. I have talked to people who know them in the Bangladeshi community. The family said they were good boys."
As we sit talking in the mosque in Whitechapel Road in east London, Dr Bari grows thoughtful.
"If I had been a policeman, maybe I would see it differently. But that is part of the problem. We need 3,000 more Muslim policemen in London to restore trust."...
Foxes Guarding the Henhouse Alert.
His aim, he says, will be to encourage Britain to adopt more Muslim ways, as well as to encourage Muslims to be good British citizens.
Will he then call on Muslims to renounce Sharia and accept living in Britain as equals with non-Muslims on a permanent basis?
He thinks that non-Muslim Britons would benefit from having arranged marriages and espousing stronger family values; they would also do well to stop drinking and gambling and to follow many of the teachings of Islam.But, first, he must calm the tensions between Muslims and the rest of Britain.
"Muslims are frightened now," he says. "Many are still poor, under-educated and unemployed and they are finding life increasingly difficult. It is a nightmare, particularly for the young.
"There has been a 300 per cent rise in stop-and-search of the Asian community and a 600 per cent rise in race- hate crimes against Muslims. The young are rebelling. They become de-motivated; some turn to drugs, others become more religious."
I'd like to see documentation for those figures. They could be as trumped-up as CAIR's.
An increased interest in religion does not, however, turn them into extremists and terrorists, he says."Our religion teaches us to be good neighbours and friends. Any group or religion has one or two people who are bad. But now we are all seen as the enemy.
"7/7 was committed by idiots and the devout were against the man who dressed up as a suicide bomber to protest at those cartoons. These people are not true Muslims. Overwhelmingly, our community is made up of sane, sensible street cleaners, teachers, nurses and bus drivers. This idea that we are all fanatics is ludicrous."
Of course you're not all fanatics, Bari. But what are you doing to root out the fanatics, and to prevent your young people from becoming fanatics?
But would he not agree that many in Britain see Muslim fundamentalism as the biggest threat of the next few years?"Extremism is a threat, but on all sides: Christian, Muslim, Jewish," he says. "It is objectionable when people talk about Islamic terrorists; those who terrorise people are not being Islamic in any way."
Here we go again. Bari cannot, of course, produce any evidence of any Christian or Jewish terror groups committing violence and justifying their deeds by reference to core teachings of the religion. There are, meanwhile, Islamic groups that do that all over the world. If they are "not being Islamic in any way," Bari is being quite complacent about it. Where is his large-scale program to teach against their allegedly counterfeit Islam, to prevent more Muslims from falling for it?
Dr Bari wants to promote the activities of the 800 mosques in the country and to work with the imams."They do a tremendous job; but, in Britain, they are seen as nasty men with claw hooks. This is rubbish. Abu Hamza was a nightclub bouncer - he is not a religious man."...
The assertion does not establish the fact. Abu Hamza made religious arguments. Bari should answer them.
However, he does not think that Muslims should adopt too many British practices; Britain should espouse many more Muslim traditions, he says."Arranged marriages are a good idea. These are not forced on children but it is a way of parents helping to guide their children to make the right choices. In youth, you are very emotional; you just go on instinct. Elders can look at compatibility, background, intentions. It is a wonderful system...."
Posted by Robert at June 10, 2006 6:52 AM
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"The family said they were good boys."
I'm sure they were, according to their standards. Now, what does this prove?
Posted by: anti-uffe![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at June 10, 2006 7:41 AM
I read a short sci fi story a few years ago about a spaceman who ended up on an inhospitable planet. He tried by degrees to change the planet to make it more hospitable to what he was used to back home. He succeeded...or at least thought he did...the final paragraph was about him swishing his tail and flapping his gills...He had not changed his environment...his environment had changed him...he just didn't realise it.
Bit like the British with islam....
Posted by: Celsius at June 10, 2006 8:25 AM
Let Doctor Bari arrange a marriage for Yvonne Ridley. As she was greatly taken with Mullah Omar[one eyed] and Abu Hamza [2 hooks], this lady is unlikely to object to matrimony with a physically impaired Islamic man so long as he is a 'good Muslim.' Better still,make her one of plural wives living in a lovely Islamic country which practises Sharia-how about Saudi Arabia??
Posted by: Morgane at June 10, 2006 8:46 AM
Not certain that I wish to be a Muslim as I need my left hand to cut up the little meat that I do eat.
The idea of 4 nubile young wives all praying to allah for my divine presence has appeal but when I look at my wife of 20 years, (still with the same figure and temper that she had at 20) I am not certain that my aging bones and patience could handle 2 let alone 4.
at June 10, 2006 8:46 AM
And the Muslims should try ham on rye sandwiches with a cold beer. Geez! Why don't they just come out and demand the unconditional surrender of the West? Oh wait, that would be honest, something they aren't required to be by their religion. These people are not becoming assimilated to Western culture, but instead are trying to remake Western culture into the image of the third world piece of feces countries they come from. Either we remake their world in our image or they will remake ours in their image. There can be no middle ground. Send 'em packing back to Packistan or whatever "stan" country they come from. If they're not going to fit in here, we sure as Hell don't need them. It's like taking termites into your home and expecting them to behave like your cat.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at June 10, 2006 10:27 AM
Bohemond you are far too polite.
I am not allowed to say here exactly what I would do as recognition of an absolute and total enemy here still is not accompanied by the only possible successful response.
We are now like the allies in the "phoney war" where we tiptoe around trying desperately NOT to upset the enemy to much and all the time he builds up his forces and organises his plans while we sit there and allow it.
Let us hope that the future Dunkirk is as successful as the last one and that we have an iconic leader like Churchill to harden the souls of the frail. gird the loins of the brave and knock some survival sense into the PC teddies.
Posted by: Zathras at June 10, 2006 11:17 AM
There is one Islamic value that the Brits need to adopt immediately:
-rejection of those who wish to destroy you.
Defend the Civilization that 'brung you'.
We need the same strength and resolve to uphold our world as Imperialistic Islam devotes to conquering it.
In that, and that alone, do we need to borrow from Islam.
Like curing like.
Posted by: profitsbeard at June 10, 2006 11:25 AM
Profitsbeard not "borrow from" but descend from our evolved superior humanitarian stance and revert to the primeval swamp values of the arabian desert(doesn't sound quite right does it?) above which Muslims have never risen.
Posted by: Zathras at June 10, 2006 11:48 AM
*cough cough* Sorry Doc, women have rights where l come from...
Posted by: eloivsdiablo at June 10, 2006 1:59 PM
Im not so sure my daughter would accept an arranged marriage, and Im not so sure the chosen man would like it all that much either.
One step out of line and he would likely wake up duct-taped to the bed with his new wife hovering over him and wearing an evil grin. My daughter isnt being raised to sit on the back of the bus, if you know what I mean.
Posted by: Bacon-I Will Miss Thee at June 10, 2006 2:43 PM
Yikes.
Posted by: jsla at June 10, 2006 3:51 PM
Arranged marraiges, hummmm. I remember my dear late mother suggesting (when I was a teenager) that I ask certain girls to go out. These were usually daughters of her friends. She would always say that they had nice personalities. Well the only thing I can conclude after all these years is that homely girls always have nice personalities. Beautiful girls and beautiful women can afford to be cranky and hard to get along with. An arranged marriage - no way Jose.
Advice to the younger men of the JWDW world. The un-attractive teenage girl does not always grow into an un-attractive woman.
Posted by: Pelayo at June 10, 2006 8:15 PM
"We need 3,000 more Muslim policemen in London to restore trust."
Since there are about 30,000 police officers in the Met he is asking for a 10% Muslim presence.
This may explain why the Metropolitan Police today leaked the report showing that Muslim police officers are 10 times more likely to be corrupt than other officers.(The BBC reported the phrase 'more likely', leaving out the factor of ten for some reason).
The Muslim population have found that they can use the Forest Gate arrests as a way of cutting the police down to size ( they always launch protests after arrests of co-religionists - and let them fizzle out if the detainees turn out to be guilty as sin) and may use the incident to try and acquire greater influence over the Met. The idea of jobs for the boys probably appeals to them too. This could be the Met's way of telling them that at least one section of the indigenous British population has got their number.
At risk of sounding paranoid, I wouldn't fancy some jihadi fellow traveller downloading data from my bionic identity card (or whatever they're going to call them) off the central police computer.
Posted by: wallyUK at June 10, 2006 8:42 PM
There are very large numbers of Indians in Britain, mostly of Hindu and Sikh background. I have never heard a Hindu or Sikh 'leader' suggesting that Britain should adopt 'Hindu' values. The arrogance of this man demonstrates why Islam is different, and why there shall never be peace. Because fundamentally they believe Britain should adapt itself to them. What bloody cheek. Sheer arrogance.
Posted by: Cisoux at June 10, 2006 9:29 PM
Great idea. As long as they are suggesting adopting Muslim practices and behavior in Western Europe, why not adopt female mutilation, honor killing and rape for those females who insist on protesting an arranged marriage?
Oh, those are the "fanatics." Seems like a lot of "fanatics" in Europe these days.
I would suggest that the Muslim community adopt our bizarre culture of Equal rights and really have big rallies for the separation of Church and State.
Posted by: amana39 at June 10, 2006 9:30 PM
"...Let Doctor Bari arrange a marriage for Yvonne Ridley.."
LOL!
I know a lot of guys who would 'revert' to Islam just to get a chance to lock her up in a room and whack her everyday!
She would have to pay a fair bit of dowry though!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at June 10, 2006 9:33 PM
Umm . . guys?
What exactly is wrong with an arranged marriage? They were standard even among Christians until very, very recently, and there's certainly nothing intrinsically evil about them.
In fact, there are many who argue that these make more wholesome marriages than those that are made for superficial reasons like "romance".
Islam's a wicked, barbaric religion, but this is not a bone I think we should be picking with them.
Posted by: DominvsVobiscvm at June 11, 2006 12:44 AM
I developed a theory last night, when watching a 1950's Japanese film in which there was an arranged marriage (with full right of refusal).
It's this: maybe in societies where everyone is very predictable due to similar genes, behaviour, religion, tastes etc, as Japan seems to have been back then and many ME countries are today, maybe arranged marriages often work because everyone within one's class or group is similar and predictable. The same might have gone for English aristocracy in former centuries.
How could one, after all, strongly object to someone whose pheremones are likely to be acceptable, whose behaviour is no different from most people's, whose standard of looks are going to be pretty much the same as most people's etc (for instance all the young Japanese people in the film were slim, good looking and well-presented - how could one object?)
This is in no way justifying forced marriage, which is a different matter.
But in a diverse society this couldn't work. When your options are so wide and your partner could be any genetic mixture, with a wide range of behavioural traits etc, making one's own mind up makes perfect sense.
Am I being racist by implying a less-diverse genetic mixture in some societies? No, I understand that to be a scientific fact.
at June 11, 2006 2:23 AM
DominvsVobiscvm
By themselves, arranged marriages can be workable - particularly for people who wanted parental help in finding a prospective spouse. However, typically, this tends to be more of a social or family driven issue, rather than one driven by a religion. Like you said, there are several people who may, for a variety of reasons, choose to go that route.
However, with this Imam, it isn't enough that his "brothers" are practicing arranged marriages: he wants that to be the norm with Brits. That is what makes this story noteworthy. It isn't a question of whether some Brits may choose to follow such an example; rather, it's more that those who do not practice it should start. Not to mention that with their Honour killings of those women who go against their family dictats on whom they should marry, Muslims don't show any evidence of "espousing stronger family values".
As far as Bari's Bangladesh goes, the one thing the Brits could learn is how to make jute ropes, which could then be used to hang Muslims - Bangladesh and elsewhere.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 11, 2006 2:30 AM
I had schoolfriends who were Greek, the boys elder brother accepted in adulthood the marriage arranged for him when he and his wife were children. Some years later when they divorced the reasons were little to do with the manner in which they had met. But he had the choice, and his brother declined an arrangement.
During a period after a failed relationship when I was feeling a little down I did wonder (briefly) if the arranged marriage system had something to commend it, although my mothers idea of a "nice boy" was not neccessarily mine. But, I thought, at least superficial considerations like acne and height would not be a factor.
Years later when I watched a Pakistani colleague assist in the arranging of a marriage for his youngest brother I was amazed. The brother had had several romantic failures and in desperation agreed to his mothers pleas.
So the round of visits to families with suitable daughters began. One nice girl was rejected because his father had once rowed with her uncles.
"I cannot allow such men to be visitors in my house"
Fathers of girls rejected the young man because he was short "I cannot deny my daughter the chance of tall sons" or because of his job. An engineer earning a steady living in a useful trade was not prestigious enough. In the end they did the enevitable and Mother sent for her cousin's daughter from the village back home, a very pretty girl, from the poorer branch of the family.
My parents met in a pub in 1942 and had 34 happy years together. I met my husband in a pub and we are doing OK too.
at June 11, 2006 3:26 AM
"Muslims are frightened now," he says. "Many are still poor, under-educated and unemployed and they are finding life increasingly difficult. It is a nightmare, particularly for the young."
The report shown recently that 50% of young muslims are unemployed is actually spin. I know some muslims from school. I know for a fact that it should read 50% of young muslims are claiming benefit, paid out of our taxes. So poor and unemployed just doesn't fit with what you see day to day. They are not poor. In fact, as a percentage of their population, poverty is the very lowest in the country. Still, in this country you can make anything sound the way you like by just lying of fiddling the facts.
And don't even get me started about the "England" flags they are selling in muslim areas for the world cup, with the Islamic star imposed above the centre of the cross.
Posted by: UKInfidel at June 11, 2006 5:50 AM
Aspirations and reality: British muslims and the labour market.
Tells you everything you need to know about how muslims aren't fitting into the labour market.
Posted by: Bert Preast at June 11, 2006 7:47 AM
There is a big difference in arranged marriage (by consent) and Mohammedan marriage arrangements. I could fill pages, but I don't have the time.
Short: A Mohammedan buys the wife like a goat or a camel, she 'belongs' to him and that's it.
Therein lies the difference. Japanese going on 30 also go for an arranged marriage, but if it is not to his/her liking, they quickly back out and (usually) nobody gets hurt. The same in many other cultures where this admittedly conservative practice prevails, or persists.
This is not the case with the cult of Islam: The bride is bought and sold and whacked into submission. The father makes the deal with the groom who is asked whether he agrees to "the fucking of the daughter..." (sic) and thats it....
Like I said: Big difference!
at June 11, 2006 8:03 AM
As an American, this is very alien for me. Is it true that the woman in Muslim arragned marriages have no say?
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 11, 2006 2:47 PM
"But would he not agree that many in Britain see Muslim fundamentalism as the biggest threat of the next few years?
"Extremism is a threat, but on all sides: Christian, Muslim, Jewish," he says. "It is objectionable when people talk about Islamic terrorists; those who terrorise people are not being Islamic in any way."
Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari,
Please with the rest of the Muslim community worldwide, please clean up your own faith house before making comments on the faith houses of the Jews and Christians.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 11, 2006 2:56 PM
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" -- 1956
WallyUK -- you aren't paranoid in the slightest. The fact that every movement by a Muslim somehow miraculously advances Islam is not a figment of the imagination. It is axiomatic. It is well within the realm of possibilities that 3,000 new policemen translates into 300 completely devastating zealot moles. (Even 30, or 3 would prove devastating -- think of Philby, Ames, or Hanssen)
Every significant bit of intelligence shared with the police regarding Muslim activities to subvert would be completely compromised, without doubt. Those who may prove effective anti-Jihad personalities would have to fear both the seething Muslim populace, but also the London Police. It is untenable. Good lord -- the recent raid in London was miraculous for the fact that some Muslim within the ranks didn't blow the whole thing anyway.
The mind boggling truth is that the body snatchers have arrived.
Remember how nobody noticed in the movie until it was too late? Even that creepy screech by the fallen is eerily simlilar to the hysterics of the endless Muslim howls of "protests". They deftly exploit every arrest, every terrorist act, or concoct tales of victimhood to further their Islam, demands for more concessions, and calls for more exposure to Islamic indoctrination. In short, every transgression and event is churned into a ripe opportunity for Islamic da'wa. That too is axiomatic with Islam. Islam is propaganda and mind control exemplified.
The bizarre yet all too real truth is worse than any horror film. We are beset with an alien invasion bent on our annihilation and subjugation -- yet nobody notice.
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was filmed right outside my offices in the Hollywood Hills in 1956. Prescience.
Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 3:00 PM
What can you expect from people that have to learn a few dance steps and take a compass with them when they want to go for a SHIT.
Posted by: Holger Dansker at June 12, 2006 2:46 AM
"Many are still poor, undeducated and unemployed." Unlike most of the other immigrants from the Polish, Irish, Sikh, Hindu and Chinese communities. I wonder why? Oh yeah, cause we're victims innit?
Posted by: londongirl at June 12, 2006 6:38 AM
Perhaps it should be suggested to the gentleman that Muslims could adopt one useful custom of the UK: getting a job and gainful employment.
Posted by: londongirl at June 12, 2006 6:45 AM
"Perhaps it should be suggested to the gentleman that Muslims could adopt one useful custom of the UK: getting a job and gainful employment."
What? And make like their oppressors? NO WAY!
Posted by: jsla at June 12, 2006 12:28 PM
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