| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Jihad Watch | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Raymond Ibrahim | Robert Spencer |  |
|
|
|||||||||||
|
|
Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the threat to Western art posed by the Islamization of Europe:
Already statues have been vandalized by Muslims in public places, and in churches, in both France and Italy. The destruction of the monuments and artifacts and hence part of the histories of Infidels, that so many Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Buddhists in the Middle East, in North Africa, in the Balkans and southeastern Europe, in Central Asia and Hindustan and in southeast Asia know well, now has come to Western Europe. What will happen in Italy, where every street corner in Rome has something that could be damaged by determined Muslims? What will happen to the churches, to the frescoes (including that which Muslims have been taped planning to destroy in Bologna), to the paintings in the Louvre, the Prado, the National Gallery, the Rijksmuseum, the Alte Pinakothek, the Uffizi? Has any organized association of museum curators, or of art scholars, even dared to think of organizing a conference on the protection of art in Europe, and the prohibitions of Islam against sculpture of all kinds, against paintings of living creatures?Is anyone at all thinking about this, and contacting others? What about Philippe de Montebello or J. Carter Brown or Anne d'Harnoncourt or any other museum directors or retired directors, or any celebrated collectors, or those who already belong to such groups as Save Venice or Save Florence or FAI or Save Art here and there and everywhere? What about those who fund foundations that will pay to rescue Roman mosaics from the rising man-made floods that covered Zeugma, or the Temples near Aswan, but have a new kind of inundation to deal with, the flood-tide of Islam's adherents, who to the extent that they take their Islam seriously, can only threaten Western art, as they once not only threatened, but managed to destroy, so much of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Greco-Bactrian monuments, stupas, manuscripts, temples, artifacts, to erase, or to appropriate as their own, the signs and symbols of anything pre-Islamic or non-Islamic?
This matter cannot wait. Raising the matter publicly, noisily, so that everyone is made aware of the problem, so that Muslims themselves (the same ones who pretended to be outraged by the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas but in truth helped the Taliban, as those Pakistani and Saudi engineers did, and were secretly pleased at the result) are put on the defensive, and forced either to admit to or to change their ways.Raising the issue will offend Muslims -- or at least, many will feign indignation. But why? The issue is real. The prohibition is real. Any Muslim can find it in Qaradawi's handy guide to what is halal and what haram. Any Muslim can read what the Egyptian Grand Muft said recently about this. Muslims have been acting on those prohibitions for 1350 years. Now they exist, in large numbers, within the Lands of the Infidels, the Bilad al-kufr. This poses many problems for Infidels, their laws, customs, understandings, political and social institutions, physical security -- and for their artistic heritage, the heritage that, supposedly, belongs to everyone.
Time to bring it all out into the open. Who will be brave enough to discuss it? If not the heads of American or European museums (who, for all I know, are eager to obtain Arab money for some pathetic "Islamic art" wing and as craven in their pursuit of such money, and hence in their willingness to remain silent on all sorts of questions, as college and university presidents whose every statement is cleared with the Development Office, that beating heart of the modern university) then who?
It could be one of those scholars grateful for the training he received, perhaps at the Warburg or at the Courtauld, in the days when that instruction would have been given by some unforgettable, irreplaceable Jewish refugee from another totalitarian belief-system, that which ruled Germany and almost wrecked European civilization.
There is one celebrated art historian whose clashes with the Belle Arti in Italy have been based not on any deliberate damage inflicted, but rather on the unintentional damage that may have been caused by well-intentioned cleaning that may have removed what the artists in question (Michelangelo, Jacopo della Quercia) foresaw, and intended to be, the pleasing effects created by the patina of time on the Sistine Chapel, on the giant statue of Ilaria del Carretto in Lucca.So perhaps someone will kindly pass on this suggestion to Professor James Beck of Columbia. He would at once grasp the gravity of the problem that large numbers of Islam's adherents, now in Western Europe, pose to our civilization and its artifacts, as the behavior of Muslims who conquered initially through the sword, and completed their dominance through demographic conquest demonstrates.
And as the boys from the Belle Arti, and some Japanese businessmen who were awarded proprietary rights in the Cappella Sistina reproductions have discovered to their own great dismay, nothing and nobody intimidates James Beck.
Posted by Robert at June 14, 2006 9:17 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
Just think of all the history in the making the Muslims are making by destroying history.
March 11, 2001: We destroy Buddhist statues in Afganistan
September 11, 2001: The day we destroyed WTC
July 4, 2025: The day we burned the Declaration of Independence
and on and on and on.
![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at June 14, 2006 9:22 AM
What Mr. Fitzgerald says makes perfect sense, but I doubt if PC museum directors will do one thing to preemptively protect the treasures entrusted to them. At some point, after Muslims grow tired of spitting or urinating on church doors and outdoor sculptures, they will find offense with a particular piece of art work and demand its removal. If the demands are not met, the museum will be bombed/burned, with little if any official regret from the Muslim community. The dhimmis will be outraged and and demand changes in procedures to protect museums, etc. Enflamed Muslims will again be furious that the dhimmis are engaged in "racial profiling" and "Islamaphobia." The dhimmis will back down and remove any special efforts to protect their treasures and history. The cycle will repeat itself in another city with another museum or church. A sad and dreary future for all those who care about the history of Western civilization...
Posted by: maryrose at June 14, 2006 9:43 AM
Field trips for students to museums -- students not only of the History of Art, but of History (as, for example, students studying Roman history as part of a course)-- are common in Europe, less so in this country. Imagine what Muslim students would do, if on a school trip to a museum they were asked to look at Greek or Roman statuary (not to mention those red-figure or black-figure vases), or a madonna with child (on the rocks, with poppies, col cardellino), or sitting for a portrait painted by St. Luke (we've moved from Italian to Flemish paintings), or St. Andrew and St. Peter setting off in a bark on the Sea of Galilee, or St. Jerome in his study? What would Muslim students make of the odious non-Christian art of the last century, at some sprawling girl by Balthus, some orientalizing in content and color by Delacroix or Matisse? Imagine the howls of protest from Muslim groups at such mental cruelty. For them, art should consist only of the tamest of landscapes, Qur'anic calligraphy, and color-field theorists galore.
at June 14, 2006 10:15 AM
Locust people, "planet of the apes" in reality.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 14, 2006 10:49 AM
We know that the only time museum curators get upset is when they can blame the US or Israel for the destruction of antiquities, whether they in fact have done so, or, in the case of actual damage, are directly responsible. (Think the looting of Iraq's museums after the invasion and the Intifada II era allegation of the structural undermining of the big mosque in Jerusalem that intentionally encroaches on pre-existing major Jewish and Christian holy sites.)
Seems to me that the origins of the architectural heritage preservation and "biosphere" preservation is a United Nations "preserve". Perhaps protecting the world's antiquities should be a UN concern.
/sarcasm
Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 14, 2006 11:39 AM
I am familiar with the monuments that were destroyed in India throughout its history - some 100,000 temples, among other great institutions. Is there a list of everything that was destroyed in the rest of the Islamic empire - Persia, Turkistan, Syria, Egypt, Mahgreb, East Indies, et al? Does India hold the record in terms of monuments destroyed, or do other countries in the list come close?
at June 14, 2006 12:10 PM
Sita Ram Goel and other Hindu historians compiled a list merely of the names of the Hindu temple complexes destroyed by the Muslim invaders. It is in two volumes. I have one of them.
Posted by: Hugh at June 14, 2006 12:19 PM
@Hugh: the irony is that many of the abominations contructed on the sites of ruined Hindu-Buddhist temples are now world heritage structures for example see Qutub minar a mosque that stands on sites of 27 Hindu-Buddhist-Jain temples.
Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 14, 2006 1:49 PM
Assalamau Laikum all,
I think that when wuslims kind of start to run things they may be a bit more careful with monuments.
Te Vaitican & whitehouse "monuments" should never be destroyed...I am strictly against this.
I would be happy though to see (well blended) minerets (with obligatory high quality loudspeakers) to be erected though. It will speak of a sort of integration....Islam + the west ..with ease of each other.
at June 14, 2006 1:54 PM
You can see why we find her posts so valuable.
Posted by: Hugh at June 14, 2006 2:10 PM
If only it were only artworks that would be something. The Muslims, when they take over France in a few years, may well be greedy enough to sell the works in, for example, the Louvre rather than destroy them.
But think of all the ancient buildings - and not just the buildings themselves as separate things but how they fit into their landscape.
And all those records. How many must there be across Europe? Hundreds of tons of dusty records. They may not seem very exciting, but for someone who knows how to read them they unlock the secrets of people's life in the past. What when there is no one capable of reading them, no one who knows how to keep them, no one who cares about them? So the past will be lost as well as the present and future. Those cultures which have outlived men will die, too. "They all go into the dark ... And cold the sense and lost the motive of action".
Posted by: Yojimbo at June 14, 2006 3:23 PM
Naseem is not a muslim, just a lefty troll, out to yank our chain. Most likely white, a lapsed Catholic. Probably some Green Party member, who vandalized Bush/Cheney lawn signs in the last election. Stays at home cloistered in the suburbs, husband is a director of sales and marketing at a major plastics firm. She drives a Ford Windstar minivan. Her kids attend the annual Kiwanis festival.
"Assalamau Laikum" is a phrase she googled off the internet recently. "Naseem" is the name of a pakistani woman who works at the daycare where she takes her kid every morning - because she is too lazy to be a mother. And she needs time to surf the net and troll jihadwatch when she is not flame baiting other conservative sites.
Campaigned for Kerry in 2004 by putting anti-Bush bumper stickers on parking lot cars.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 14, 2006 3:45 PM
"She" may not be just that, though. I actually liked that "wuslims" bit, you've got to credit him/her with a sense of humour. "Wuslim" sounds pretty male-ish, think Beavis & Butthead.
Posted by: anti-uffe at June 14, 2006 4:35 PM
I am convinced Naseem lives in Pakistan, has the husband and son she claims to have, is a member of the Ahmadiya sect, and has that confused collection of beliefs and promptings, sometimes a fear of Islam (the real Islam, the one whose adherents regard the Ahmadiyas as Infidels), more often a slightly reluctant desire to see the triumph of Islam, based on the belief that it simply must be, and that, furthermore, the display of cheeky freedom by Infidels (the very thing she sees at Jihad Watch) will no longer be possible, and we will all have to suffer together -- she, now joined by all those Infidels, including you and me. She wants us to share her pain so that she can say: "I feel your pain." Right now she fore-feels it, she tastes it in advance. And you know something? She likes the idea of our suffering, as she has suffered.
Posted by: Hugh at June 14, 2006 4:56 PM
Hugh, I think Naseem lives in Pakistan and to this I agree with you on this one. The truth is that she is simply is hoping for a victory for Islam because she knows of the massive growth of the Christian faith in the global south. Plus as you have said, the Muslims do not consider her community of Islam to be truly Muslim. I was suprised she used a different word, "wuslims". That is new to me.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 14, 2006 5:07 PM
Using GPS, plenty of money, perhaps a little knowledge of chemistry, engineering, aerospace etc would it be entirely beyond the realms of fantasy to send something to "modify" Islamic monuments in, for argument's sake, Mecca?
It isn't? Well get on with it people!!!
Posted by: IceDragon at June 14, 2006 5:16 PM
Here is how Naseem in a previous post defined the word she fabricated and favors, "Wuslim":
"So who are these people....whay we need Wuslims (Western Muslim)...lots of them. A swathe of muslims who have been christians or other but converted ...who understand what the West will lose but at the same time cannot think to be any thing other than muslims...
As Wuslims grow and become influential it is possible that a leader emerges ...who has the influence and the charisma to modernise.
It maybe even that he has to be declared as a Calipaha (for a bit) to get things done...most likely to happen in Amrika I feel....(the US administration must play along) to help him get things done....help Islam moderate."
Posted by: Naseem at January 14, 2006 07:08 PM
In other words, she is hoping that Islam will convert those Westerners who will still have retained their non-Muslim rationality, ability to think and to question, sense of decency, and so on, and that somehow these "Western Muslims" will rescue Muslims from Islam itself.
A telling notion. It is exactly, in a sense, what the Shi'a exiles wanted the Americans to do in Iraq. It is what some would-be Muslim "reformers" in Egypt and elsewhere want. They cannot admit that Islam is the problem. They cannot take our side, the Infidel side, and warn the Western world or the larger Infidel world not to squander resources trying to make the Islamic states somehow fairer, more just, better. And they will not warn us about halting Muslim migration to the West (for god's sake, they want to take advantage of that, they want that possibility to remain always open to them). They want the West to share Islam's pain -- or rather, the pain of the reformers, and in some cases, the secularists (look at Turkey's secularists -- they desperately want Turkey to be admitted to the E.U., and don't give a damn what the consequences would be for the Infidels in that E.U., for they are thinking only about how to share the problem of Islam with Infidels in Europe, hoping that somehow they will be able to cope, to modify and to reform the problem of Islam that will not go away).
That's Naseem. Desperately seeking Western Muslims, who will rescue her, and others like her. That's the Iraqi Shi'a. That's Said Eddin Ibrahim. That's the handful of "reformers" in Syria, in North Africa, in the Gulf states, even perhaps a tiny group -- see The Religious Policeman -- who call themselves Saudis.
Sorry. No can do. We have to save ourselves. And we certainly are not about to commit civilizational suicide by becoming Muslims, or even, as Naseem would put it, Wuslims.
at June 14, 2006 5:52 PM
Hugh,
I don't wish to be picky but it would have been highly unlikely that any of the Apostles would have used the services of a barque (bark) on the Sea of Galilee at that time. Much more likely, if a large vessel had been needed by Them, would have been a "shell first" construction of cedar planks with oak framing about 28ft. long, 8ft. wide and 4ft. deep. It wouldn't have had more than a single mast (barques [barks] have a minimum of three) and would have been crewed by five or six people who would have had to row if the wind dropped. A boat similar to this was found on the shores of the sea and has been preserved, I understand in the Kibbutz Ginosar Yigal Allon Museum.
However, if you are just using 'bark' (barque) loosely to mean a small boat then please accept my apologies in advance.
(By the way, the US Coastguard has one of the finest oldest barques (barks) still under sail. See it at
http://www.uscg.mil/datasheet/wixtrain.htm )
Dominic.
Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at June 14, 2006 6:15 PM
Hugh: excellent profile (and now I don´t have to call Naseem a bunch of poofters from the UAE anymore..) Great!
Posted by: cosmicAvenger at June 14, 2006 6:21 PM
But Who will save the monuments ?
no discussion after the incident will bring back the pieces of great heritage to mankind... and it might be some carvings in Turkey, or a statue in Europe, it will be gone forever. too late.
quite some years ago i climbed those Buddhas in Bamyan/Afghanistan, and those moments are strongly imprinted in my memory. - When they got blown up in 2001 I began to understand what we are dealing with.. It is a terrible monster within humanity and we still underestimate it..
It will not stop untill we stop it. Its name is Islam!
at June 14, 2006 6:40 PM
Hugh
The interesting part about this is that those who would become "Wuslims" (notice how there isn't that eagerness from Naseem's ilk for non-Whites to become Muslims, since they won't be any different from previous editions who did, such as Pakistanis, other than inflating the numbers) e.g. Yusuf Smith, would become Sunnis and would just join in the persecution of Ahmadiyas, among others. There aren't too many Thomas Haidons among that bunch (incidentally, Haidon, if you happen to be reading this, which category do you fall under?), and even for those who are, they aren't likely to pick either Bahai nor Ahmadiya, since that would just be painting bullseye on themselves. So ironically, if her wishes, or that of those like Said Eddin Ibrahim, or Kanaan Makiya, ever came to fruition, things would actually be far worse for people like Ahmadiya and Bahai, not better.
Back to Naseem's post, if minerets are so good for the White House and the Vatican, why not have them on the Ka'aba?
at June 14, 2006 7:07 PM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Some very interesting perspective on me.
Let me re-iterate for the sake of peoples like "cosmic-Avenger".
I am Ahmadi, female & live in Lahore, Pakistan.
Pakistan has changed much over the past 20 years. While there has not been vast amounts of political stability...two things have happened.
1) There has been a hugh growth in population.
2) There has been a powerful movement of the need to conversion to a more pure and conservative form of Islam. Unfortunetely, this has seen the form of much madrassas...and the devaluation of sufism and Ahmadism....but Alhamdililla...we are still here.
When I moved to Lahore, while they had "outlawed" Ahmadi via the constitution...on the ground however..there was not so much visible friction....this is starting to change somewhat.
Some things are certain in my mind...although very small parts of the Koran are not true ...but there is enough there to keep me muslim. The great suffering I have is with my sick husband ....this is distressing & frustrating but his pain has moved me closer to him & Allah SWT.
I am convinced that the Ahmadi form of Islam is the correct model for us all. IF Islam is to dominate the future (as we all think it will) then I would prefer it to be "Ahmadi".
In this "journey" the Ahmadi view will require help certainly....and where best to get it from?...why within the midst of the infedel ....as we always have.
The infedel is weak in faith and easily forgets...he fights...vigerously for freedom...for a few decades ..but then settles down and is weak again (Israel is a prime example of this).
The infedel is a rich honey fountain...an irrestible and bottomless honey trap...in all sorts of ways.
Economy, kindness, schooling, grants, aid,..but also in my opinion allowing the development of a unique muslim entity...the WUSLIM... who is smart...possibly white in large number...with an adherence to some infedel practices....he/she has a grudging admiration for some of the laws & style of living of the infedel ....BUT IS STILL MUSLIM at heart....and therefore cannot deny Allah under any circumstances....this we will ask of all wuslims...many many of whom will be readers of this very post...former infedel ..."Cat Stevens aka Muhd Yusaf "is an example.
The wuslim interesting though does not feel entirely comfortable with the muslim of the ME or South Asia.
The wuslim...likes to live with the infedel...but on islamic terms....the wuslim also no longer wants to marry muslim of the ME...but wuslims..this I know from personal experience of my son.
You will start to see this trend more & more.
Over a couple of decades when enough majority /consensus is reached two things will happen in the West.
1) Laws changed to allow wuslims to marry upto 4 womens....with a milder form of sharia starting to take root.
2) Gentle persuasion to take control of wild slutty womens to gently bring them back into the "fold". Those who can persuade womens to their way of thinking will doiminate.
The majority by birth on the ground will rule...via sharia or democracy ...it doesn't matter. This will be Islam as you have already given up with your pathetic attempts of birth control...dogs instead of childrens...hahaha so funni.
I guess you may start to see some religious police for womens ...but I think the infedel womens will conform quickly & easily....after all any faith is better no faith...your lifestyle has put you in that predicament...do not blame Islam for this.
So in concluding...if Islam is to dominate...why not the Ahmadi way...this "halfway" house can help us all to live & breathe...so why not.
Hugh is only partially correct...if you want to share my pain ...then share it....but the end goal must have Allah centrally placed....It is only a case of which type of Islam we all want.
Loudspeakers & minerates are a small price to pay for peace....you can help by becoming a wuslim and pushing the Ahmadi way.
You know it makes sense...peace & jilbabs, dates & copper trays be with you.
at June 14, 2006 7:55 PM
Infedel Pride asks "if minerets are so good for the White House and the Vatican, why not have them on the Ka'aba?"
I have not been to the Ka'aba....but I know that minerets could be a safety concern there. With Millions of muslims/wuslims, any falling masionary could kill many...muslims are a precious community ...Allah's chosen ...so why risk it.
At any rate there are many minerets in Saudi ...so no problems there.
at June 14, 2006 8:24 PM
Returning to the problem of European art...Maybe they could ship all the paintings off to Japan on permanent loan.
Posted by: snowpea at June 14, 2006 8:32 PM
P.S. Does Naseem think Ahmadiyya will survive in Pakistan in the long run? If not, why would one expect it ultimately to do any better in a Muslim West?
Posted by: snowpea at June 14, 2006 8:41 PM
Naseem
You might want to start with Ibrahim Hooper, Husayn Ibish, Yvonne Ridley and Yusuf Smith. How about John Walker Lindh, Richard Reid, David Hicks? They are Muslim - are they Ahmadiya? Why not start with them?
As for "any falling masionary could kill many", we all know how perfectly every haj goes every year, don't we? Besides, if the minerets fall on the heads of Mohammedans, why mourn? It would just complement the annual stampede, and moreover be the will of Allah-talaa.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 14, 2006 8:58 PM
Naseem, as a hardcore Christian, I nearly giggled after reading your most recent comment. The truth is that there are westerners who do have a strong faith life. It may not be brought up everyday, but it is there. I had attend a wonderful all women's Christian Catholic retreat weekend this past weekend and there are many good women of Christian faith who had attended. A number of them young women. No "wild slutty womens" in this retreat weekend. One young women who is getting married in a month's time and whom the lead priest on the retreat team is going to witness the beginings of her new mariage, had at the closing Sunday Mass the priest blessed her.
The truth is that the best cure for the lack of faith in the west is NOT Islam as you see it; but the need for the west to rediscover its Jewish/Christian roots. This is why I am very happy that the global south were the Christian church is growing at a good pace has started, that is, Africa, Asia, and Latin America is now sending missionaries to not only minister to those members who come from the nations on those continents, but also evengelize westerners and helping to bring them to Christ. Do not be suprised if because of these missionaries the west will in time see a rebirth of the Christian faith.
This is the best route to go, seeing the west come home to Christ and to the Christian faith by those whom a century ago the west sent missionaries to now have missionaries being sent in a return way to the west to breath new a new life of faith.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Naseem, you discount the stupidity of your brethern Fast jihadists. Every time they attack, they poision the welcome you are counting on. And it is working. The tide is beginning to turn. There will be another large attack soon, and then islam will be thrown on the defensive. Denmark and the Netherlands have already put clamps on islamic immigration. And those countries have not suffered an attack yet. 9/11 was a wake-up call. Another 9/11, which is coming, will put a knife right through the heart of the Slow jihadist.
So how is life in Pakistan? Do you like the squalor? I find mere pictures of Pakistan depressing. How is your goat? Have you eaten it yet? Or do you drive it to work, still? Must be hot there this time of year? Do you go to the beach? Oh, wait, there is no beach. Perhaps you enjoy skiing in the mountains. Oh, wait, there is no skiing. What about a day at the fair? No fair, eh? LOL. There must be a public execution somewhere in your neighborhood. That could be fun.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 14, 2006 9:10 PM
Is that wuslims or wusslims?
Posted by: JanuaryMan at June 14, 2006 9:19 PM
There are many Christian Pakistanis in Canada. I have them as customers. I have never met a white muslism as of yet. Reason? The only whites that convert to Islam, are radicals, who are just trying to make a political statement. Conversely, when muslims comvert to Christianity, they are being driven, not be petty politics, like Cat Stevens, but my a universal human need to be loved and forgiven, as Christianity offers the world. That is why among intelligent people, Christianity is the most popular religion of all time, by far.
Christianity addresses a fundamental human need. Whether there is a God or not, is irrelevant. It is the theme of love and forgiveness that draws billions to Christianity. Islam does not offer that. That is why in Islam, they fiercely need to protect their minions from outside influences, especially those of Christianity. Like the Berlin Wall, they know that if given the choice, they would all jump over the walls of their prison and become Christians. That is why conversion is punishable by death.
Islam is a joke as far as religions go. Actually it isn't a religion at all. It is an ideology, with the only religious aspects being stolen from the Hebrews. So basically, Islam is Judaism with swords, daggers, beheadings and pedophilia.
That is not a religion. That is a Monty Python skit.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 14, 2006 9:34 PM
Krishna Mandir demolished despite objection
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at June 14, 2006 9:40 PM
This aversion to art, and by extension, nudity, might not manifest itself as strongly (or as violently) in Christianists as it does in Islamists, but it is nonetheless worthy of mention. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/29/statues.htm
Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at June 14, 2006 10:16 PM
The poster above offers up, by way of his symmetrical aversion to, and indictment of, all religions, in that plague-on-all-your-houses view that he cannot let go of, a single article from 2002. Ashcroft fig-leaving this or that statue is comical, in the same way that the Victorians who preferred not to mention the "leg" of an innocent piece of furniture (no, not a piece named Twemlow), but this hardly compares to the niqab-and-burqaed brood mares consigned to permanent semi-slavery in so much of the Muslim world.
For god's sake, a little sense of proportion. You know -- as in that opening scene at the War Office, in "Lipstick on Your Collar" -- the man with the suspenders who later turns out to warn Kim Philby, and Burgess and Maclean, who mentions the lack of a sense of "pro..portion"?
Posted by: Hugh at June 14, 2006 10:30 PM
Hugh,
Sure, I understand scale. They are proportionally different, but nonetheless, of interest. I am not suggesting Ashcroft is anywhere near as threatening to the West as are Moslems. His actions were rather harmless, although it was a waste of taxpayer dollars. Admittedly, they are also a far cry from destroying artifacts.
Comic relief is healthy for us all here especially since the subject matter here is rather dreary. Wouldn't you agree?
at June 14, 2006 10:44 PM
"I don't wish to be picky but it would have been highly unlikely that any of the Apostles would have used the services of a barque (bark) on the Sea of Galilee at that time.."
-- from a posting above
Go to the National Gallery (American version). Start with the rooms devoted to the Italian Primitives, mainly Umbrians. Enter room #1. There you will find a small and beautiful painting of St. Andrew and St. Peter, in their tiny fishing boat with a net, perhaps going out in their bark -- akin to that wandering bark of Shakespearean sonnet fame -- to fish in the Sea of Galilee for, of course, the fish called St. Peter's. I can't remember the painter. Perhaps Anonymous. Perhaps the "Master of the Something Altarpiece." In the same room, a nice picture of or possibly by Margherita d'Arezzo. Or of Marguerite, by the Master of Arezzo. I'm doing my best to pretend to be a combination of Funes el memorioso and The Man Who Knew Everything, but it's late, and I'm tired, and I just can't carry it off at this point.
If you can't show up yourself to look at that small and very beautiful primitive, it is one of those for which a museum postcard exists. Ask a friend visiting Washington to first look at the painting closely (and take a tour, while at it, of the first few rooms devoted to Italian primitives) and then ask that friend to go to the Museum Shop, the place many visitors can't wait to visit, in order to buy those postcards, those museum-logo-ed tote bags and notebooks, those decks of playing cards and tops and toys with an artistic theme which justifies their price, not to mention the scarves, and the reproductions of amulets, and then those very expensive art books on every possible artist or subject-matter -- oh, how much more fun it is, how much more...natural, to spend time in that part of the museum where you can actually buy stuff, and then there are the two cafes, the smaller more expensive one with the smaller but better menu, and the fountain and flowers, and the cafeteria, where you can choose from all kinds of things, as at a mall, and spread yourself out in the vast room, and take your time, look at your catalogue, make a stab at writing just one of those postcards (but there's nothing to write, what can I write?) and there, among the postcards arranged chronologically and by School (Italian, Primitive) your friend will find that postcard, and it can then be promptly mailed to you in Old Londinium.
You've questioned the word I chose to describe the fishing boat (with that fishing net, don't forget) of those lesser Galileans in that beautiful and small Italian primitive, and now I give you the means to obtain, from a distance, the optical proof. A phrase which prompts the realization that it is now close to the doom of midnight, and therefore time to put out the light.
Very well, I'll then put out the light.
Posted by: Hugh at June 14, 2006 11:53 PM
"Fitzgerald: Who will save the monuments?"
If someone is taking orders, I'll take all the Rembrandts, any Rodin sculptures (would look nice in the front rose garden), and the Arc de Triomphe would look good at the end of the driveway.
at June 15, 2006 12:30 AM
The posts from the dreaded N....m woman confirm that she may as well be from Mars.
Posted by: cathkins at June 15, 2006 12:46 AM
Maybe Unesco, the Sierra Club, leftist heros like Al gore can join forces and show the rest of us how conflict resolution works. Maybe they can have a sit in at the Saudi Arabian Embassy. I am sure that will save the world.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at June 15, 2006 1:30 AM
Hugh, if you really want to get your panties in a bunch over Aswan, skip the mosaics. The biggest loss there was probably the early Christian churches. What became Lake Nasser was home to some of the oldest Christian churches in the ME, dating back to the third century. Many had never been fully, properly excavated. All that's left now are photographs and some reasonably detailed archaeological studies.
Posted by: OutOfAqaba at June 15, 2006 5:56 AM
If there is someone still taking orders, please note that I'd like to add all the Renoir's to my earlier list. I think that the Luncheon of the Boating party would look nice over the fireplace.
http://www.globalgallery.com/enlarge/018-21404/
So you can chalk me down for Rembrandt, Rodin and Renoir, the three "R's".
Someone else can take the other R's, Raphael, Rubens, the list is probably endless (and that's only the R's).
I am hoping that Rockwell and Roberts will remain in safe hands.
http://www.art.com/asp/display_artist-asp/_/crid--32/pg--5/Norman_Rockwell.htm
http://www.artistsfootsteps.com/html/Roberts_sunnysouth.htm
Posted by: Ozi_bloke at June 15, 2006 7:49 AM
"get your panties in a bunch..."
-- from a posting above
You have remembered it incorrectly. Not "panties in a bunch" but rather "knickers in a twist." We are, after all, card-carrying members of the English-Speaking Union -- aren't we?
Posted by: Hugh at June 15, 2006 10:48 AM
somethingaboutislam,
On your commetary; it is not suprising that a number of Muslims, when given an opportunity once they move to the west, in your case to Canada leave Islam and convert to Christianity. They know that at least they will be left alone to live out their new found Christian faith in peace. By what I have read of your comments, there must be a sense among these folks that with all the news about the reality of the terrorism going on, as a result, Islam is slowly but certainly is more becoming a pariah faith, and seeing the forgiveness, hope, and peace that the Christian faith offers are coming more into relationship with Christian and becoming believers.
In truth, Islam is really a dangerous idology dressed as a religious faith. The more light put on the oppression and violence, the more this truth will be revealed. Also with the global south becoming Christian and with missionaries coming from the countries that the west sent many years ago missionaries to spread the Gospels and the faith, and with people searching for what is meaningful, expect a re-birth of Christianity in the west.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 15, 2006 12:26 PM
from Naseem above:
"Te Vaitican & whitehouse "monuments" should never be destroyed...I am strictly against this.
I would be happy though to see (well blended) minerets (with obligatory high quality loudspeakers) to be erected though. It will speak of a sort of integration....Islam + the west ..with ease of each other."
====================
It's like a vision from this movie. It appears to be a circa 1988 sci-fi version of what stealthed dhimmitude would be like.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/they_live/about.php
at June 15, 2006 1:40 PM
INCORRECT REPORTING: Krishna Mandir in Lahore safe
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at June 15, 2006 4:50 PM
Re: The usage of the word Ameriki by our own Naseem (Isn’t that a brand of rice in India? There is no such person)
I have been reading a great deal about Hindi/Hindustani and Urdu; their sameness as well their difference: the Persian and Arabic influences on Urdu. The more I read, the more I discover the enormity of the tragedy that befell India, which manifests itself in the “Urdu” language. This tragedy escapes most Westerners.
at June 15, 2006 6:57 PM
Hello Naseem - I've enjoyed reading your posts. Even those of us in the West who are not particularly religious have plenty of reason to fight. Any threat to my own freedom and that of my children would lead me to take to the field in a New York minute, and soldier on until a successful conclusion is reached.Let me ask you a personal question if I might. Forgive my ignorance, but are you a devotee of a sect of Islam that is perhaps regarded as heretical by the majority of Pakistanis? If yes, do you ever fear for your own life? The history of Pakistan has been violent and chaotic. Are you and your family only one riot away from destruction?
Posted by: MP at June 15, 2006 7:50 PM
Are you and your family only one riot away from destruction?
Posted by: MP at June 15, 2006 07:50 PM
Don't worry about Naseem, she can always escape to the UK if things get hairy. They probably don't advertise the fact that they're infidel apostates or godless heretics, or whatever the "real" muslims consider them to be.
Nobody knows what the future holds but I'm certain that Naseem won't live long enough to realize her fantasy of a "wuslim" Amrika.
Posted by: Susanp at June 16, 2006 12:29 AM
Kafir
Urdu was an artificial language created by Hindi being infiltrated by Arabic and Farsi, with the Arabic script. If it wasn't for Islam, it wouldn't exist - there would just be Hindi, and the other Sanskrit languages that exist in India.
Until the Brits arrived, Farsi used to be the official language of the Moghul Empire. This was one of the first things that the Brits did after they conquered much of North India - abolish Farsi as an official language. While other groups like the Marathas did much to destroy the Moghul empire, this move ensured that Muslim hegemony in India ended.
In one sense, a pity, since Persian, like English, could have linguistically enriched India. However, as a major vehicle of Islamic supremacy in India by both Afghans and Turks, it was something that just had to go.
All that said, whatever the Mohammedans did linguistically in India was the least of their crimes.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 16, 2006 3:20 AM
You ask "you a devotee of a sect of Islam that is perhaps regarded as heretical by the majority of Pakistanis?"
I am a muslim ....a believer of Allah. It is not the peoples of Pak on the street but the Mullahs who whip them to a state of hysteria, that cause problems.
Also we have state bias...where non-Ahmadi status is embedded in the constitution...that we are stateless...but can live in Pakistan ...for the moment anyway.
We also have "hudood" laws (strengthened in the 1970s)which effectively make the Ahmadi as outcasts.
Now, new passport forms state that we must declare ourselves non-Ahmadi to qualify for a passport.
Occasional violence towards us & our masjids keeps us on our toes.
All- in all ....not an ideal situation.
The two things that get under the sunni/shia nose is that:
a) We still have a live spiritual leader (we are on our 5th) ....they say none would be there after Mohd.
b) We believe in the earlier more peaceful suras of Mohd....most of which have been superceded by Mohd. himself as he bacame more successful.
Ironically, Ahmadis tend to be more balanced, non violent and very educated ....but are not allowed to fully participate in Pakistani society.
This is the crucks of the matter for them.
SusanP says "Don't worry about Naseem, she can always escape to the UK if things get hairy".
SusanP, my life, my family and my home are here in Lahore. Much better that I try to address my problems from here.
You also say "Nobody knows what the future holds but I'm certain that Naseem won't live long enough to realize her fantasy of a "wuslim" Amrika".
SusanP ....in the grand scheme of things I am not important. What is important is 2 things.
1) The West has a perspective of an alternative RoP. Prior to me coming here...did you know about Ahmadi...NO! Well now you & 2 million other infedel do.
2) "Wuslim Amrika"...is no fantasy...it is the future and only a few generations away!...You better wake up & smell the coffee....the dates and the jilbabs freshly dyed from Pakistan.
Laugh if you will....your grand childerns will laugh too ...but only as wuslims.
We have a live
Posted by: Naseem at June 16, 2006 5:00 AM
Wuss-lims! Not wuslims.
Posted by: JanuaryMan at June 16, 2006 7:21 AM
Endlessly informative.
Posted by: Hugh at June 16, 2006 9:47 AM
Hi Naseem, I see you are posting again. Just got back from an 8th grade Catholic day school graduation Mass. After coming home and once again seeing another post of yours, I have greater confidence that Christianity is in good hands and will become the leading faith by the year 2025.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 16, 2006 10:51 AM
I just want to add, thanks to today's young people and the Christian believers from the global south, the west will be brought home to Christ and Christian faith by 2025.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 16, 2006 10:53 AM
Thank you for your answers , Naseem.
Posted by: MP at June 16, 2006 11:56 AM
Endlessly informative. Posted by: HughThe gift that keeps on giving.
Naseem
Thanks for those insights. While you are at liberty to ignore anyone you feel like ignoring, there is one question you still didn't answer - why do you think Whites who for whatever reason switch to Islam would prefer Ahmadiya, when they could be amongst 900 million Sunni, and take part in bashing all other Islamic sects - Shia, Bahais, Ahmadiya, not to mention Kafir?
Not to mention that those who have converted, have been.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 16, 2006 12:42 PM
Assalamau Laikum IP,
Ofcourse I try to answer as many questions and as honestly as I can together sometimes with emotion and Inshallah my own mix of limited knowledge.
You ask "why do you think Whites who for whatever reason switch to Islam would prefer Ahmadiya, when they could be amongst 900 million Sunni, and take part in bashing all other Islamic sects - Shia, Bahais, Ahmadiya, not to mention Kafir?"
Here is my 5 rupees. Over the next 2-3 decades the west will be under tremendous presure from muslims & wuslims.
There will be much hatred but equally there will be much conversions..together with lots of confusion.
Wild slutty womens will come under the greatest pressures to convert ...and they need to make(for convert they will) an informed decision...and this is where I and the Ahmadi come in.
I will do my best Dawa pieces to inform the infedel that being an Ahmadi muslima is the best choice where Islam is concerned.
So I want all the peoples her to tell their friends, relatives that WHEN the time comes and they have to convert....choose Ahmadi....because it is as good as it gets.
Posted by: Naseem at June 16, 2006 3:28 PM
Where are these "wild slutty womens"? I'd like to make hay while the sun shines.
Posted by: MP at June 16, 2006 3:32 PM
MP,
I kidda wonder myself. To be honest, in Naseem's view, any woman who does not wear a burka is considered, even when dress by all standards of the west in the most modest way possible a "slutty woman ". Just a few thoughts.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 16, 2006 8:20 PM
Naseem is a troll.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 16, 2006 11:13 PM
I wonder if maybe we in the Christian West have begun to understand how the Greek and Roman pagans felt as their culture was slowly but surely undermined and "modified" by Christianity?
Certainly they must have fretted and complained as their shrines and monuments were altered and destroyed, their way of life altered to conform with the new, colonizing religion, as all the time their government accommodated and appeased by degree, eventually accepting the new faith as supreme.
The worm turns again?
Posted by: american tory at June 17, 2006 2:54 AM
Amreki_tory I love your post. You capture the essence of the future in just a few keywords. The best part of it is that you ALREADY accept that your future will change and that it will be Islam...a young wuslim..thank you sir/madam thank you ...please choose Ahmadi when converting.
The west resents the fact that their "culture" (a contradiction at best) will be superceded by an "inferior" way of life...but it's just not true. Lets us take but one example.
Friday nite is the day out for western womens in Londonistan...on come the tiny clothes which don't fit...onto streets full of alcohol showing off titties in the cold.
But Friday...is muslim prayer day...so the friday nite out will change to mid-day prayers and then a "jolly" at the mosque at nite.
This will have major benefits for these womens.
No diseases to catch....sober...no smoking...no feeling cold...saving money but most of all bringing a bit of discipline back into these misguided womens...learning the way of the cloth...the way of Allah SWT.
The local police will be aided by the womens religious police...gentle conformance.
Yes, Leciester square in Londonistan,...many of the pubs & clubs replaced by mosques and alcoholic drying out centres...devoid of traffic....
How can all these wonderful savings, key attributes of discipline be inferior....it is simply your wayword thinking that is backward.
Islam can set free ...and provide structure & discipline to the poor womens lives.
It is the parents fault...how dare they bring up the childrens badly?
Still better late than never....look out for this wonderful vision coming tou your town centre..only 20 years from now...Allu-Akbar.
Posted by: Naseem at June 17, 2006 6:02 AM
"I wonder if maybe we in the Christian West have begun to understand how the Greek and Roman pagans felt as their culture was slowly but surely undermined and "modified" by Christianity?
Certainly they must have fretted and complained as their shrines and monuments were altered and destroyed, their way of life altered to conform with the new, colonizing religion, as all the time their government accommodated and appeased by degree, eventually accepting the new faith as supreme.
The worm turns again?"
-- from a posting above
1. The Christians did not destroy pagan monuments of classical antiquity. And some would argue that Christianity was a moral advance on the Greek and Roman gods. For example, Chateaubriand in "La genie du Christianisme" -- argue not for the moral superiority not of Christians to the pagans of classical antiquity but rather for the superiority of the belief-system of Christianity to what it largely replaced. Christians did appropriate pagan monuments for their own uses (think of the assorted temples of Minerva, in Rome or Assisi, for example, that were turned to use as churches). But while in Islam everything pre-Islamic is held up for contempt, called the Time of Ignorance (the "Jahiliyaa"), and despised, Christianity contained within itself the possiblity of recognizing and valuing that classical antiquity. Isn't the rediscovery of the pagan past a standard subject -- the flight of the scholars from Byzantium with their Greek manuscripts in tow, the Revival of Learning, all that -- in the history of the early Renaissance? When we look at the insense study and respect accorded the pre-Christian past by those who are either Christians or raised in the Western world which was molded by Christianity, look at all the themes of pagan antiquity in, for example, Western art, can anyone say that the coming of Christianity removed for all time any interest in or respect for the past?
But in Islam the pre-Islamic past is despised. And with islamization, those islamized were taught to despise their own histories, their own pre-islamic pasts. What interest do you think the Arabs ever took, until Western archaeologists and philologists came along inthe 19th century (think of Champollion, Lepsius, Howard Carter and Egyptology, Austen Henry Laward in Assyirology, Leonard Woolley in the unearthing of Ur, and so on, or the Frenchman Mariette who founded the Cairo Museum, or Gertrude Bell's role in organizing the Dept. of Antiquities in Baghdad and the museum there. The Muslims were indifferent to, and mostly still are, to anything that is not about Islam.
You hint that the islamization of the Western world is akin to the arrival of Christianity. But the Western world is not really being islamized voluntarily. It is being islamized through an insensate immigration policy, through mere demographic conquest, not throught the remarkable achievements, behavior deserving of emulation, and teachings deemed morally superior to what they replaced, that are part of the story of the acceptance of Christianity (along with other means of christianization -- I'm not forgetting such episodes as the Spanish missionaries who accompanied or followed upon the conquistadores).
Islam is a complete and closed system. It is unable to change because it has declared one of its texts not merely holy, but the literal word of God, and while the doctrine of "naskh" exists to reconcile the many inconsistencies in tone in the Qur'an (by throwing out, or viewing as superseded, all those earlier and softer verses that are contradicted by later and harsher ones). Christianity somehow bent but did not break with the Higher Criticism that subjected its texts to historical study, to placing those texts in and not outside of time. Islam is further unable to change because it enforces its rules, or the rules are enforced, with a ruthlessness that corresponds only to the Spanish Inquisition at its parodic ("No one expects the Spanis Inquisition") height.
Do you think that the world of Islam would not be full of people openly declaring their apostasy, and many of them becoming Christians, if they were not terrified -- terrified of death or socail ostracism or seizure of all their property, all of which are the kinds of things that are meted out (google "Kuwait" and "Robert Hossein" and see what happened to him a decade ago for daring to become a Christian, and not in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Sudan, but in Kuwait). Lok at what happens to Christians in Pakistan -- google "Bishop Joseph" for more on his martyrdom).
Islam is totalitarian in that it offers a Complete Explanation of the Universe, one that rests finally on the all-purpose explanatory phrase "Allah knows best." Don't use your reason. Free and skeptical inquiry are not permitted. "Allah knows best." And it is totalitarian, too, because it is a Total Regulation of Life. Just look at those Muslim websites, where Believers write in to be guided as to what foods they can eat, how they should wash, what they can wear, whether they can do this or mustn't do that. It isn't a case of advice. It's a case of handing down the law. Islam does not speak of Good and Evil. It speaks of the Haram and the Halal. It forbids what must be forbidden (yours not to reason why) and commands what must be commanded (ditto).
In its terrifying hold over so many minds, and its abiilty to hold even secret dissenters in line, in the ways in which it enforces its rules on those who try to escape from it, in the Complete Explanation and Total Regulation that it offers, it makes one think not of Christianity but of something more recent. Of Italy, during the Ventennio, from 1922 on, when more and more people became enthused with the clown on the Piazza Venezia, chin-jutting Il Granitico, Benito Mussolini. Or still worse, in Germany, where in the late 1920s and then in the 1930s, slowly and then much more rapidly, sane and intelligent people, the kinid who were driven out of Germany in despair, as they walked the streets of Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfort, and small towns, noticed with alarm and amazement the constantly increasing street violence, the swelling crowds of the heil-hitlering, the montrous crazed and apparently hypnotic voice on the radio or at rallies, and all that came with it.
That is the truer analogy -- the onset of Fascism, or of its more deadly German variant, Nazism.
The best essay comparing Islam and Fascism is that by Ibn Warraq. It is based on applying the fourteen criteria that, accordiing to Umberto Eco, define Fascism and seeing the extent to which Islam meets those criteria.
A perfect fit.
Google "Ibn Warraq" and "Islam" and "Fascism" (it may have been mispelled so also try "Facism") to find that essay. Enlightening.
Posted by: Hugh at June 17, 2006 6:55 AM
Hugh,
"Islam is totalitarian in that it offers a Complete Explanation of the Universe, one that rests finally on the all-purpose explanatory phrase "Allah knows best." Don't use your reason. Free and skeptical inquiry are not permitted. "Allah knows best." And it is totalitarian, too, because it is a Total Regulation of Life. Just look at those Muslim websites, where Believers write in to be guided as to what foods they can eat, how they should wash, what they can wear, whether they can do this or mustn't do that. It isn't a case of advice. It's a case of handing down the law. Islam does not speak of Good and Evil. It speaks of the Haram and the Halal. It forbids what must be forbidden (yours not to reason why) and commands what must be commanded (ditto)."
Thank-you Hugh for your in-depth explanination on what Islam is all about. The life control stuff that is seen in your above discription does not suprise me in any way, shape, or form. It simply rejects the reality of "free will", which is truly a gift of God. This has all the makings of a cult. Why is it that it got the title of a "religion", I will never really know Hugh. Hugh, keep up the good work of getting the word out.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 7:52 AM
Naseem,
You can deny what I am about to say, keep dreaming on, but the truth is that ISLAM IS ON ITS WAY OUT. The real fastest growing faith is the Christian faith, the global south is proof of its sucessful growth and as I have predicted, the global south nations are sending missionaries to witness the good news of Christ and of the Gospels. Expect the west to be brought HOME to the Christian faith. The violence coming from the Muslim community is starting to open people's eyes up to the truth about Islam. Even in Russia after the Beslam slaugther up to 2 million Muslims left the faith and have decided to become Christians. That is truth alone that Islam is becoming a pariah in the world.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 8:05 AM
My comment about the genital mutililation of Naseem was removed, but really, it goes to the heart of her mental illness. The reason why she resents "wild slutty women", this seems to be a theme with her, is because having been mutiliated according to the doctrine of islam, she can no longer feel sexual pleasure as they can, having had her clitoris removed in order to keep her from straying from her husband, or even being tempted in his absense. Not only does islam imprison woman inside homes and burkas, but it takes away their very womanhood.
This creates a terrible sense of depression and also a deep resentment for "wild slutty" western women who are still anatomically unmutilated. She resents that, and wishes for all women to suffer the fate she has suffered as a muslim women.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam
at June 17, 2006 8:56 AM
Bigcatgirl (BCG) says "the global south nations are sending missionaries to witness the good news of Christ and of the Gospels. Expect the west to be brought HOME to the Christian faith".
BCG, I respect all peoples who have strong faith...and you particularily so. That is why unfortunately you will be so disappointed..
BCG...no one is coming...not from the gloabl south, east, west, north, under the sea or from outer space....no one except...
Muslim nationals, Islamic saints/imams, minerates, high quality speakers and peoples with Korans saying Allu Akbar ...that's all...please treat the Koran with respect on a clean top shelf ... I also recommend incense to go with it for purification of the air.
SonethingaboutIslam (SAI)writes "My comment about the genital mutililation of Naseem was removed, but really, it goes to the heart of her mental illness. The reason why she resents "wild slutty women", this seems to be a theme with her."
SAI ...I'm afraid I did not get to read your vile post about me. I have no theme about "wild slutty womens"....only a vision of cleanliness...fit for Allah's way.
You say "This creates a terrible sense of depression and also a deep resentment for "wild slutty" western women. She resents that, and wishes for all women to suffer the fate she has suffered as a muslim women".
Hahahaha......do I sound depressed...should I be depressed...even with a very ill husband, I am not...BUT IT SURE SOUNDS AS IF YOU ARE.
What is your problem anyway....I am only the messenger...I am not ones advertising this behaviour...they are...and is incompatible with reasonable and honourable behaviour...Islam is coming to save them ...you should be pleased ...not angry.
My recommendation to you is get your wife/girlfriend (if you have one) to try on a jilbab for size & comfort....might as well get ahead of the game eh!
Posted by: Naseem at June 17, 2006 9:51 AM
Naseem, LOL, you suffer from clitoris envy. But you know what, women like their bodies unmutilated, as you would have preferred yours remain unmutilated, so that sexual pleasure could still be experienced. But born into islam, you had no choice, so you were violated at the most fundamental level for a woman. That is what islam does.
This explains your constant harping about the sexual mores of western women and how you can't wait to see them all inprisoned in burkas.
I feel sorry for any woman so mutilated, in body, and in spirt. For that, I can't forgive islam. But for you, it is too late. Stockholm syndrome, which affects almost all muslims, keeps you ideologically tied to those that did this to you. This mental illness keeps you coming back to this board to remind western women that they all have the burka coming to them.
Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 17, 2006 10:37 AM
somethingaboutIslam,
The more I read Naseem's posts, the more it helps me to do my reasearch online to refute what she posts. Plus the research backs up what I have been posting.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 12:27 PM
Naseem,
Here is an online story on the growth of the Christian Church in Africa and how it will make a difference in the growth of Christianity and that missionaries are already are coming to the west starting with America.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1351346/posts
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 2:10 PM
...As well as the original website article, from "The Telegraph".
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 2:14 PM
Assalamau LAikum BGC
You are skating on thin ice if your are relying on the African community for the revival of christianity.
Africans greatest priority is survival and you need money for that ..give a few rupees and they are christians...another few rupees and they are muslims.
Like I said to you earlier .,....nobody is coming...have you got your jilbab yet?
Posted by: Naseem at June 17, 2006 2:54 PM
Naseem,
I am just telling the truth. The Christian boom is not just is happening in Africa, but Asia and Latin America as well. The Christian faith has gone global and there is nothing to stop its spread. I rejoice that there is a Christian boom.
Also do not ask me again about accepting Islam. I have REJECTED ISLAM, the Koran, and any jibab. Please do not ask me again. Thank-You.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 17, 2006 7:07 PM
Comments are turned off and archived for this entry.
(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)