"In a pamphlet from the ‘North Waziristan Mujahideen’, they demanded that female doctors be appointed to carry out the procedure."

Yes, but, according to the Taleban, females are not allowed to school and study, so how are they becoming doctors?

Catch 22.

BTW. Ultrasound scanners? Damned infidel technology. Is that Islamic? How did it get here? Trash it!

Posted by: pr126 at June 20, 2006 7:16 AM

That area is all going to hell and breakfast. A brief history of waziristan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waziristan

A brief history of baloochistan.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Kabir/Freedom_Figting-The_Baloochistan_Way

These tribes were never under the control of pakistan. Now they are running wild.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 20, 2006 7:39 AM

It's alright to butcher women like chickens, but not alright to give them medical care....

Posted by: moderationist at June 20, 2006 7:40 AM

Yes, but, according to the Taleban, females are not allowed to school and study, so how are they becoming doctors?

As a feminist, either Condi or Hillary sponsors them, they are admitted to Yale, whereafter they are Sandra Day O'Connored into a prestigious medical school at Harvard, Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, or Columbia. Some homies even stay to attend Yale Medical School.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at June 20, 2006 7:45 AM

The health of women and babies does not appear to matter to the super-matcho brave warriors of Allah.

My wife was told recently by a practice nurse here in the UK that the muslim women in the area are not coming for smear tests or breast screening because they are refused to by their loving and caring husbands. The result being when they do seek help it is often too late.

Posted by: Turbinehead at June 20, 2006 7:51 AM

I guess the net result of this is that there will be less babies in part of the world where every human being is part of the jihad.

Should the Taliban adopt more measures to limit population growth, I doubt that many will object.

Posted by: Sebastien at June 20, 2006 8:37 AM

This just goes to show the "expendability" of their women. If they die, they go get new girl wife.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 8:45 AM

freewoman,

Bingo!!!! You got that right!

This shows Islam's poor treatment of women.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 20, 2006 8:53 AM

Yes, but, according to the Taleban, females are not allowed to school and study, so how are they becoming doctors? Posted by: pr126 at June 20, 2006 07:16 AM

Posted by: Shy Guy at June 20, 2006 8:53 AM

In the UK the main reason that muslims want an ultrasound is to identify the gender of the baby. If the ultrasound shows a girl the father demands an abortion. In parts of the Indian subcontinent, mainly muslim areas, this has resulted in such an abnormal girl-boy ratio that some are now worried there will not be enough brides to go around. This will probably lead to muslim men trying to convert non-muslim women.

Posted by: clipper at June 20, 2006 8:59 AM

I guess we can look forward to more two headed babies.

Posted by: Ben-Hur at June 20, 2006 9:33 AM

Bigcatgirl, did you ever notice on T.V. that, in the M.E. you always see men crying over the bodies of other men and NEVER bodies of women?

My thinking is, the way they arrange marriages instead of allowing the couples to choose each other based on "love"(if there is any such thing with them) is the reason they don't care. To me, it's like deciding to marry the next guy walking down the street.

These men have no use for technology except to kill a greater amount of people.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 9:58 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Some peoples have talked about abortion so I’ll add my 5 rupees worth but in I only know about Pak, but would imagine it similar in Afghanistan.

Abortion is illegal in Pakistan unless performed to save a woman's life; but every year the estimated national abortion rate is roughly 29 per 1,000 women in the reproductive age-group.

This rate is higher than neighbouring India and almost similar to Bangladesh. Clearly this points to a high level of unwanted pregnancies, induced abortions and post-abortion complications in the country.

As abortion is illegal, safe abortion services are rarely available to womens, who are forced to visit illegal clinics run by traditional birth attendants or midwives. Womens approach these dais (midwives) because they "feel their secret will be kept", but complications from septic abortions are a leading cause of maternal deaths.

Most abortions are carried out to prevent unwanted births, this is a sad affront to Allah who has gifted the childrens to them.

Inaccessibility of family planning services, financial constraints, and in some cases, husbands who want more children while the spouse don't are some reasons why womens don't use contraception. Many Pak womens and men consider use of contraceptives more threatening to their health than an occasional induced abortion.

Sadly, scores of low-income women suffer from post-abortion complications that include uncontrolled bleeding, infections, perforation of the uterus (womb), and injury to the bowel.
There have been cases where intestines — mistaken for foetus parts — have been pulled out, however the more permanent damages include infertility.

There has been some debate about abortion being legalised to save womens from complications caused by unsafe abortion, however it is a bit of a taboo subject…and “experts says the solution lies in improving the quality of family planning services”.

Note in this instance Islam is right in not allowing abortions…...it is safer for the womens to have the child in preference to an abortion.

Peoples say it is Allah’s Daen (gift) resulting in the explosive population in Pak. It was 45Millions at time of partition…today it is over 160Millions.

In many areas there is room to swing a cat, Clearly Pak needs to expand into “other” territory to cater for these peoples.

Posted by: Naseem at June 20, 2006 10:16 AM

freewoman,

No, I have not, but thanks for that info. Learned something new today.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at June 20, 2006 10:23 AM

In many areas of the UK, the doctor will not reveal the gender of the unborn child after a scan.

Another example of Occidentals bending over for the joys of multiculture

Posted by: Sebastien at June 20, 2006 10:31 AM

Naseem, I didn't think allah allows family planning? I thought muslim women were to have 10 children each so 5 could be killed for jihad and the other 5 to continue the species. And if a man had only 4 wives, that would be 40 children. How does a man feed and support that many children? Are these abortions of unwanted pregnancies because they are girl babies? Surely it's not because a man doesn't want too many children. He wouldn't want his pride hurt.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 10:35 AM

"In many areas there is room to swing a cat, Clearly Pak needs to expand into “other” territory to cater for these peoples."

In other words - 'Lebensraum'.

What's the islamic term for 'the infidel question'?

Posted by: Sebastien at June 20, 2006 10:36 AM

Freewoman,

It is true that there is no family planning in Allah's way. however,your response is a very infedel stereotypical view of islamic families.

Families in Pak are large (being a responsible and good woman I only have two childrens though), but there are NO expandable childrens.

While SOME peoples may think that (mainly infedel & a few muslim) belive me when I tell you that Pak families are very closely knit and (usually) there is much love there.

Your stereotypical thinking does much harm to our peoples here and it is vey sad...

I think I have only found the infedel postee "champ" who has really understood our plight. Dee, may Allah always keep you as my friend and sister in spirit...safe and bless your wish to be a grandmother.

Freewoman, indeed there is much you could learn off Dee.

Posted by: Naseem at June 20, 2006 10:52 AM

Naseem, I would think the atrocity's the muslims commit in the name of allah does more harm than anything I could ever say.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 11:10 AM

Clipper, what if muslim men try to kidnap non-muslim women and force them to convert to Islam?

Didn't that British rear admiral say that between 2012 and 2018, muslims would invade European beaches and pirate yachts and boats sailing in the Meditteranean?

Posted by: Voltaire at June 20, 2006 11:11 AM

“We will award punishment in accordance with Islamic laws if any male doctor is found to be carrying out ultrasound tests on female patients.”

I have read some truly hilarious things on JW and DW regarding the backwardness of the sons of the false prophet, but this could be the best yet.

Truly amazing..........

Posted by: Anthony at June 20, 2006 11:22 AM

Freewoman,
You asked how muslim men support so many children. They don't. As soon as the kids are 4 - 5 years old, they take handpumps and sit on the sides of the roads. They fill the tubes of cyclists with air, and get by on that. Then they eventually learn to repair a cycle. Over here in India, most all of 'cycle puncture' guys are muslim.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 20, 2006 11:43 AM

Naseem: Please answer this infidel woman these questions: Do you agree with the Taliban position that only female doctors or nurses can medically care for women? If you agree with this position, then how do you justify a young mother dying, for example, from an ruptured appendix, because a female doctor was not available to do surgery? Please, be specific and clear in the answers to these two questions. Thank you.

Posted by: maryrose at June 20, 2006 11:53 AM

Sebastien-

"What is the Islamic term for 'the infidel question'"?

Answer:

"Allahu Akbar!"

(Repeat until there are no infidels.)

Hope this helps clear up that thorny theological issue.

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 20, 2006 11:54 AM

Arjun, it's so sad children cannot be children. This is why there needs to be birth control in third world countries. There is no way a child of four or five is mature enough to be away from his mother much less to try to earn a living. Childhood should be free from worry and abuse. These poor children aren't lucky enough for that.

This is why Naseem sounds so hypocritical. If there was love in islam, they would take care and caution in having children and caring for them.

It's a muslim man thing. I see no pride in having litters of children and not being able to care for them.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 12:07 PM

Freewoman,
I think you have been away the last few days. We discussed this topic a few days back. At the age of 4 - 5, muslims teach their children stealing. I would not have believed it myself, but I have seen too many example. The most recent was at my friend's farm. In the fodder fields, where he lets his cows free for grazing. I was behind a hedge, and heard 3 muslim kids discussing which cow had the most meat, so they could steal it. My friend's milch cattle is regularly stolen. If the kids are caught with the cows, they always say, 'hey just playing'. And if they manage to get away, a feast for them. This last incident was the proverbial straw. I heard kids discussing which one to steal, they were that cold and organized. After all, anything that belongs to infidels is open for stealing in islam. These are not 'children'. These are baby zombies.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 20, 2006 12:15 PM

Maryrose asks "Do you agree with the Taliban position that only female doctors or nurses can medically care for women"?

NO.

I don't much care for the Taliban, at best they are conservative...at worst they are mad. They don't support my brand of Islam...I have virtually nothing in common with them.

Freewoman says "it's so sad children cannot be children. This is why there needs to be birth control in third world countries".

I couldn't agree with you more! It is why I made the concious decision to only have two. Pak urgently needs to address this huge problem...education is gonna take time ..which we have not got.....problems for sure!

Posted by: Naseem at June 20, 2006 12:17 PM

Arjun, you're right, I had to go home and take care of a family member.(My husband thinks I missed Robert Spencer more than him!)

While I was in rural America, I had no cable tv, no computer (most in that area don't)and I was very upset to find they still think islam is a religion of peace. I went prepared with Robert's books and a few others and loaned them out. A few were shocked. Some thought it was fiction. Some minds were opened. But I did spread the word!! It's a culture shock alright.

Posted by: freewoman at June 20, 2006 12:31 PM

"We will award punishment in accordance with Islamic laws..."

Hey, I like this. A religion that AWARDS punishment! How lucky can one get? Where do I sign up?

Posted by: perpster at June 20, 2006 12:42 PM

I don't much care for the Taliban ... They don't support my brand of Islam.

But yours is "heretical", Naseem. In any case, what should anyone make of that statement? It seems to me that it's a bit like saying, "I know banging my head against a wall hurts, so I only bang it a bit."

So did you order that copy of Ali Sina's book in the end, as you mentioned you were thinking of doing? Having read some of his writings I think I'd be intrigued to see what he'd have to say about any topic that interested him - a very light, quick mind: he likes to examine detail but he also delights in spotting illogicalities wherever they rear their heads.

What would happen if a "real" Muslim caught you with his book?

Posted by: Yojimbo at June 20, 2006 1:33 PM

Posted by: arjun.sevak
Why, anything happened since?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 20, 2006 2:12 PM

naseem,
How about you doing your part by just talking to your neighbours about teaching their children, especially girls, about getting an educaton so that they can hel/heal/cure, free other women by becoming teachers and health care practioners?
Would they be willing to SEE the benefits to the society?

Posted by: freetoBEfree at June 20, 2006 2:40 PM

Naseem: An unbias history and Muslim demographics of Mohammed's Islam should be read, the philosophy and adventures of Mohammed's Sword.
All 21st century Muslims are slaves to "submit," or they are not Muslims. Islam is a sanctified terrorist manifesto which has complete control from cradle to grave or one will bleed on the edge of a sword.
If your allegiance is to only India, Check Islam's continuing conquest in India history from 712 to 2006.

Posted by: ElephantWalker at June 20, 2006 3:11 PM

There is no good side to "evil".
Political correctness is a product of Lenin 1923 Moscow, Marxism, and the stepchild of Mohammed's "Islam", Muslims with a 7th century prayer rug. Both are Mind control philosophies, the control of how and what one thinks. "It" is used to obfuscate truth, common sense, logic, reality, and perhaps, "subit" now sleeps in one's house. To conquer this enemy, quarantine, use all useful tools, foreign and domestic, there is no good side to evil.

Posted by: ElephantWalker at June 20, 2006 3:32 PM

But they can still perform ultra-sound tests on men...right?

(I am joking)

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at June 20, 2006 4:04 PM

We have some radioactive tests we can perform on them. Just say the word.

Posted by: Television at June 20, 2006 7:16 PM

What does Islam need with doctors if Allah decrees everything?

Wouldn't illness be "Inshallah"?

Wouldn't everything vile, sickening, demented, diseased and corrupt be from Allah?

Like Islam?

Just wondered.

Maybe "Ask The Imam" can answer this curious theo-ontological quandry?

Catch-23:

Allah trips Allah.

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 20, 2006 9:25 PM

profitsbeard, you are right. But it is consistent with the overall existenial inconsistency of Islam.

All this "Mo did it, so we have to do it" mentality reminds me of the scene in "Life of Brian" when Brian is being benevolently pursued by the mob and his sandal falls off. The mob takes it as a sign from the Lord and they all take off a sandal and then continue chasing Brian. Just imagine if that movie was poking fun at Islam instead of Christianity--it would have made the cartoon riots look like child's play (which is what Islam is anyway).

Posted by: perpster at June 20, 2006 11:34 PM

perpster-

Or is Islam like the Python "Cheese Shop" sketch... where you finally discover, after endless circumlocutions, that there is no cheese.

Just as, after inspecting the Koran throughly, you discover that there is no "Compassionate" Allah.

Only a projection of Mohammed's revenge fantasies, megalomaniacal ego-predator illness, and plagiarized Old/New Testament gibberish.

Only by killing the skeptical intelligence at its root -in helpless children- can this kind cosmic fraud be perpetuated for centuries.

And now for something completely different...

The "Polly wanna theist?" parrot sketch.

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 21, 2006 12:00 AM

Statistics for maternal deaths by country.

http://www.unfpa.org/mothers/statsbycountry.htm

Posted by: Borg at June 21, 2006 12:26 AM

Many Pak womens and men consider use of contraceptives more threatening to their health than an occasional induced abortion.

Sadly, scores of low-income women suffer from post-abortion complications that include uncontrolled bleeding, infections, perforation of the uterus (womb), and injury to the bowel.

Maternal death statistics -lifetime risk of death due to childbirth (from the link above)

Pakistan - one death for every 38 women
Afghanistan - one death for every 7 women

Yeah, you think birth control would cause more complications? Unlikely.

Pak needs to expand into “other” territory to cater for these peoples.-Naseem

They are already being exported everywhere.

Again, no personal responsibility AT ALL. Others have to be responsibility.

Naseem, did you lose a child? Before you said you had two sons and a daughter.

Posted by: Borg at June 21, 2006 12:45 AM

"This last incident was the proverbial straw. I heard kids discussing which one to steal, they were that cold and organized. After all, anything that belongs to infidels is open for stealing in islam. These are not 'children'. These are baby zombies."

Posted by: arjun.sevak

Children learn from the elders around them, from how they live. It makes one sorry to see the lost lead the pure to the valley of the dead. All because of a book of faith from the past.

Pray for them all, if you can see it is needed.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at June 21, 2006 2:04 AM

This is from bbc. Couldn't send it to Robert to post.
The constable should be freed.
'Killer father' shot in custody

Mohammad Ashraf after giving himself up
Pakistani police say a man who killed his three daughters has been shot dead in police custody.
Mohammad Ashraf is reported to have cut the throats of his three young daughters while they were asleep.

Later he gave himself up at a nearby police station where police say he was shot dead during questioning.

Police say he was shot by an officer who could not control his emotions after hearing how the father had killed his children.

The constable was then arrested on murder charges.

Posted by: freetoBEfree at June 21, 2006 3:20 AM

freetobefree

The constable killed a performer of honor killings, so he is unlikely to go free for the reasons you advocate.

I have a suggestion. The constable should say that he killed this murderer for the sake of Islam. If this man's daughters weren't slaugtered, they would have grown up to become wild slutty womens (thank you, Naseem) or part of different harems, and each of them could have had 10 children, who'd then have had 100 more, and so on (okay, you work the math)

As a result of this murderer killing his daughters, Pakistan was deprived of that many more potential Islamists. That so riled this constable that in the name of Allah-tala and his Rasul, he went ahead and shot him.

Frankly, I think this constable was a far better human being than his victim - he shot him whereas the victim cut 3 throats.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 21, 2006 3:35 AM

Arjun

I meant to cite your comment about the proverbial straw - and that got clipped. My question being - was there any follow-up action taken to show those Qatloos their place?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 21, 2006 4:28 AM

Infidel Pride,
Sorry about the delay. Yes, we are putting up fences around the fodder fields, where the cows are during the daytime. Initially, I had envisioned two fences. Now we are going up with three. The fence in the middle, I propose to run electricity in. My friend does not agree with me on this one, but whenever I am over at his place, I shall turn the current on. Between the middle and the inner fence, we are digging 16 feet holes. These holes are comouflaged and are evenly spaced out. I have instructed the farmhands myself to check the integrity of the fences every alternate day, and to check the holes once a week.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 21, 2006 4:33 AM

Naseem says,

Abortion is illegal in Pakistan unless performed to save a woman's life; but every year the estimated national abortion rate is roughly 29
per 1,000 women in the reproductive age-group.

What is the rate outside the reproductive age-group?

Posted by: western infidel at June 21, 2006 5:59 AM

Arjun

That's good. If those Jihadlets try anything else, they should get the shock of their lives. 230V should do it.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 21, 2006 11:53 AM

ok, none of you actually get the real reason why they taliban oppose this...

1st. as rightly pointed out, under their rule there would be no women doctors anyway
2nd. if you ultra-sound a woman who is with child, you are likely to find a taliban fighter hiding behind them

Posted by: viahj at June 21, 2006 1:23 PM

"some are now worried there will not be enough brides to go around. "

Worried? This is now a total fact. I heard an interview with an Indian journalist who reported that now poor husbands in these areas are 'hiring out' their wives for a few weeks or months. In other words, they are pimps forcing their (probably unwilling) wives into prostitution. Which makes the hirers, in my view, rapists.

However, for the suffering of the men who can't find brides I found myself thinking that society is getting its just deserts. And so will Afghanistan if women are killed off in this way.

The weird thing was that there are still these big dowry traditions that make people not want daughters. You'd think laws of demand and supply meant that the dowry would become redundant now.

Posted by: Lili at June 25, 2006 1:53 AM