I would be very interested in reading the undoubtedly, well reasoned methodology (please note the sarcasm here) of this tyrants fatwa. This is not shar'iah. I am not aware of any of the four madhabs (or Jafari jurisprudence) which would authorise this. Muslims who don't pray or who regualrly miss prayer are often considered hypocrites, not apostates.

Robert, are you aware of the structure of the argument offhand?

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 6:54 AM

And a line the Church of England should adopt. That would get parishioners through the door for more than the customary Midnight Mass once every other year.

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 7:05 AM

The only way to keep their members in the satan worshipping death cult is to kill, kill, kill.

Posted by: moderationist at July 6, 2006 7:05 AM

Well Haidon, it's your problem not Roberts...you signed on for this rubbish.

Why don't you hang your own Imam shingle out front and issue your own fatwas?

Or even better, why doesn't all of Islam appropriate the title of Caliph and start issuing fatwas, so we infidels can sit back, open a beer, and though it's a bit late for fourth of July, enjoy the fireworks?

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 7:07 AM

Mike_W

Greetings to you too brother.

I will certainly consider "hanging out my own Imam shingle". Thanks very much for the advice.

Another intelligent, well though out post. Drink a beer for me while you are at it.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 7:09 AM

Haidon,

More taqiyya?
You think we don't know what you are about?
The arrogance of the Muslims knows no bounds.
Agents of Satan, the father of lies, all.

Why don't you hatch another sock puppet, we all need a good laugh at the ummah's expense.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 7:19 AM

Taqiyya. Wow, how did you figure it out? I was trying to be so surreptisious! You are clever, and I would have gotten away with it, if it were not for you. Back to the ole' drawing board!

That is really funny Mike_W. I love getting in these debates, especially with fanatical, reactionary fuckwits like you. Do you even know what taqiyya is?

I'm probably one of the most honest Muslims you will ever meet. I have never, ever attempted to sugarcoat Islam. Nor have I ever defended the aspects of Islam which encourage murder, paedophilia and the like. I've got a pretty good track record. I support Robert's work, and I say what I say here in Muslim communities.

Idiots like you really arent interested in solving the problem, you just want a fight. If you were interested in really fighting Islamism, you would listen to me first, hear what I have to say, disagree, and engage in a civilised discussion.

So, I wonder Mike_W. What sort of deception was I spinning in my above post? I genuinelly am not aware of any widely accepted law in shariah which permits the murder of Muslims for merely forgetting to pray, or even systemically not praying.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 7:30 AM

In truth, the allah that the Muslims worship is really Satan, the head demon.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 6, 2006 7:49 AM

The serpent known as Haidon shows his true nature in his recent outburst.
Why would anyone other than someone absolutely drawn to true evil and Satan as lord and master voluntarily devert to Islam?

Haidon, it is you who is the 'fuckwit'.
You 'genuinnelly' are the agent of Satan.

The cloak of moderation you try on for size just doesn't fit in view of your recent outburst.
There is no possible moderate version of Islam.
It is all rotten to the very core..the stench is unbearable.

You try to project a moderate image of Islam in many threads here.
Everyone here see through your attempts at taqiyya.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 8:00 AM

Serpent? Because I swore at you, that means I am engaged in taqiyya? That is one hell of a logical leap. Again, this is hilarious, because I have cursed at you (responding to your personal attack) that makes me an immoderate Jihadist, spouting taqiyya?

Perhaps you can find a posting where I have depicted Islam as being moderate (you won't find it, but best of luck trying lil' champ). I have never, claimed that Islam is in and of itself moderate. Moderate Islam, may not even exist. There are moderate Muslims however. I have only said that, in my view (whether it is wrong or right) may be capable of some level of reform. But again, I have never claimed Islam is mischaracterised.

I love the colourful insults... serpent, "agent of Satan", "father of lies". All I could muster is fuckwit.

But I must apologise, I take it all back in light of your thought provoking post. I'm really, really sorry.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:11 AM

Haidon
I remember you saying words to the effect that the reason you joined islam was because you didn't believe in the divinity of Christ or because you were disillusioned with Christianity, something like that anyway. You could have converted to Judaism, if you wanted to remain within the 'Abrahamic' family as it were, but you didn't, you converted to islam. Don't you see what that says about you, particularly as you went into it with your eyes open, having read Ibn Warraq, etc. as you stated in a previous post?

To have joined islam knowing what you know about it shows a complete lack of a moral compass. Or is it the unlimited religiously-sanctioned sex that swung it for you?

Posted by: Silvester at July 6, 2006 8:16 AM

Haidon,

I never said that you depict Islam as moderate.
That would be impossible as all evidence points to the contrary.
What you do do is try to portray Islam as capable of reform.
That is a big red herring and absolutely impossible.
You are lying about the possibility of change in Islam...when 1400 years have proved otherwise.
You lie to con decent people everywhere that Islam is somewhow capable of living in peace with civilization.

Then one day, those same decent people wake up with their throats cut.

C'mon entertain us, breaK out your latest sock puppet ;)

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 8:21 AM

Haidon,

'Do you even know what taqiyya is?'

Shoot, I'm listening. (without the use of taqiyya)

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 8:22 AM

Silvester

You are entitled to your opinion, but lets not get personal here. If you want to believe that I am immoral and somehow evil (despite the fact that I have worked as a force for good), you are more than welcome to think so.

And as far as your remark on sex, that is a bit offensive and unecesary. I am happliy married to a non-Muslim woman (who has a healthy distrust of Islam and will never convert to Islam) who is a constant source of strength for me.

I don't think you, or anyone else has the right to judge me. If anything, you should judge me by my actions. In knowing what my actions are, you will know that my morality is not questionable. But, believe what you will. I don't hold it against you.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:25 AM

"believe what you will. I don't hold it against you"

-from a taqiyya sling above, beware the splash.

Saint Haidon.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 8:28 AM

Mike_W

You wrote:

You are lying about the possibility of change in Islam...when 1400 years have proved otherwise.
You lie to con decent people everywhere that Islam is somewhow capable of living in peace with civilization.

I have a limited belief that Islam can reform. I have acknowledged the weaknesses of my argument. How does mere belief translate to deciet? I think you need to read some of my writings very closely. I have always qualified any hope for reform, by stating that the chances of it occurring are not high.

So, please enlighten me, as to how my belief that Islam can reform in light of what I have said now (and consistently in my writings) is a lie?

Please, please enlighten me...

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:33 AM

Haidon
You said:
And as far as your remark on sex, that is a bit offensive and unecesary. I am happliy married to a non-Muslim woman (who has a healthy distrust of Islam and will never convert to Islam) who is a constant source of strength for me

--

Fair enough. But both you and your wife must know that your marriage is inherently unstable due to the fact that at any time you choose you can 'marry' extra spouses.

Also, many of the early muslims converted for sex and booty, so it's not unreasonable to suppose it might also be the case today.

You accuse me of getting personal. I'm trying to understand how someone can go into this religion with their eyes open. I cannot understand it, and in my limited imagination I can only surmise that whoever would do it must not be able to distinguish right from wrong. That's not evil, it's a kind of blindness. I did not say you are evil.

Posted by: Silvester at July 6, 2006 8:34 AM

western infidel

Taqiyya could be defined as what I am doing now. Watch carefully as I attempt to hoodwink posters and lull them into the understanding that moderate Islam exists.

Afterall, only tiny minority of extremists support terrorism. Islam is a religion of peace! Islam literally means peace! Well, what about Christians and the Crusades? Christians have committed violence in the name of Christianity too. Islam is no different! All religions have their extremists. The Qur'an preaches peace, and the ayah in Surah 9 are merely taken out of context. Go back to sleep.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:39 AM

'Islam literally means peace!'

That one really brought me out of my slumber. I've been mislead to believe it meant SUBMISSION, not quite the same thing would you not agree?

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 8:47 AM

Silvester

I follow the laws of the country I live in, and am loyal to them. Silvester, marrying more than one wife is a sickening practice. I made a vow only to love my wife. So that has never and will never be an issue. I could never even fathom doing this. It sickens me to even think of it.

While I am devout in terms of prayer and fasting and zakah, I oppose the implementation of shari'ah, which only leads to the destruction of a society. I cannot think of one civilisation in Islamic history which implemented shari'ah in any capacity, that was just or even handed. By definition it can't be because it assumes some people are superior over others. Islam should never be legislated, ever. Islam should be relegated to the person. Any initiative to introduce any Muslim practice, especially in non-Muslim countries should be opposed.

Cheers

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:48 AM

western infidel

You are of course correct, Islam does mean submission. Salam (peace) is derived from the same root s-l-m. But Islam does not literally mean peace. Please note, as I am sure you are aware, my posting was meant to be in sarcasm.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 8:55 AM

"I have a limited belief that Islam can reform"

- posted by Haidon

Why bother...it's all filth.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 8:56 AM

'Afterall, only tiny minority of extremists support terrorism.'

Is that sarcasm also?

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 9:00 AM

Haidon,

We both know that the problem in Islam is what's written in the koran. The faithful believe it to be the immutable word of their god and in doing so will indeed emulate their so-called prophet. This leads to 'good' Muslims into doing things like murder, paedophilia and the like. If we could persuade the Ummah to recall all those errant korans, so they can be pulped, we could produce a revised version with all the offensive passages taken out and harmony will prevail.

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 9:22 AM

One wonders how much resistance was put up by vast majority of Somalian moderate mohammedans made as they watched their country hijacked by tiny minority of fanatics.

And when the arab slavers and genital mutilators start knocking on doors, the silence of moderates will deafen us as they have been doing for centuries.

Their silence has brought them Sharia law.

Whatever happens in Somalia, it's a relatively easy country to pacify from the air, should its tiny minority of fanatics wish to export their 'non-islamic' ideas elsewhere.

Posted by: Sebastien at July 6, 2006 9:29 AM

western infidel... It was all sarcasm. Revisit the opening note to that posting...

The first problem with Islam, in my view, is not the Qur'an per se. It is with the Muslim tradition and man made interpretations of the Qur'an. Much of the Qur'an is shrouded in inconsistency and allegory. The doctrine of abrogation, as interpreted by some allows some verses to thrive. I think a new tafsir would help...

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 9:30 AM

Haidon, considering all of the things you say you don't accept about Islam why are you a muslim? Prayers and fasting I know what those are but what is zaka? Is that giving to the poor?

If you think honesty is the best policy and you shouldn't think more highly of yourself than others then you aren't in the right religion for you.

Posted by: fireangel at July 6, 2006 9:35 AM

Haidon,

I was also lead to believe that the koran was the highest form of tafsir and the koran explains itself. That reminds me I must take up learning seventh century Arabic.

...Oops my taqiyya alert just went off, that's better now back to sleep.

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 9:52 AM

I'm not entirely sure what Haidon has done to deserve this vituperation. He asked a valid question to which I would like to know the answer.

So the guy converted to Islam. That's his business. He appears to believe that Islam should be practised as a 'personal' religion as Christianity is. Fair enough.

What, he can't be honest because he's a Muslim? The last time I looked, Irshad Manji also considered herself a practising Muslim. Should I stop reading her book because of that?

WSW

Posted by: Wild Slutty Womens at July 6, 2006 10:16 AM

There is nothing like a "Muslim tradition". There is a one Muslim religion, yes, with Koran and Sunna. But traditions of Islam are plural, quite diversified, even exploded, actually. The problem is definitely not in the traditions (also just because those can and do change over time). It is in the religion, in the Koran and Sunna, and both are essentially made of hate (and eternal at that). Hate is the engine of the thing, its source of energy, its beating heart.

No tafsir will ever help here, because such works are basically anchored in Koran and Sunna as a religious base. No work that doesn’t acknowledge the leitmotiv of hate of their literary content and intent will be credible for anyone who reads the texts – you have to be disingenuous for denying that aspect. And today, anybody reads the texts. And that is in fact why we have so many spontaneous jihadists.

But, fortunately, those who read those texts with their reason turned on (as there are quite a number of them on this list) recognize them for they are, that is, something not divine at all, and there lies the only solid solution; because after having studied those texts, you still can lie about them of course, but you aren’t able anymore to sound convincing to others who studied them as well.

Posted by: ajm at July 6, 2006 10:22 AM

A Muslim just tried explaing this same concept to me yesterday while I was drinking a glass of water yesterday, and I almost ended up spitting it up all over him I laughed so hard. To say the least, without an accompanying commentary the Qur'an is difficult to grasp. Afterall there are many apparent inconsistencies and allegorical statements. Muslims rely on centuries old tafsir to determine its meaning now.

A new tafsir, if developed by a scholar who could use some itjihad-like methods to contextualise the Qur'an would be the single best thing to help Islam. The scholar of course would have to be well known and influential, and of course willing to disregard 1400 years of interpretation. But it could happen.

And you could win 10,000,000 pounds tommorrow.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 10:26 AM

"The last time I looked, Irshad Manji also considered herself a practising Muslim. Should I stop reading her book because of that?"

- posted above

Perhaps you should.
As if Islam has anything about it that can be salvaged.
*spit*

No wonder the west is in dire straights when so many here, in the very heart of the resistance, are so eager to believe anything and everything a self-confessed Muslim says.

Go and read up on the life of Mohammed and the history of Islam, then ask yourself how anyone could voluntarily take Islam as their chosen faith....or defend it if born into it.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 10:30 AM

I would hate to be part of a group that want's to kill you if you don't join in every head dunk session.

Back in school, in Pep Club, the cheerleaders would tell us to be in the gym at 3 for a pep rally. But , I don't remember ANY of them telling us we'd be killed if we didn't show up.

Back in school, in Band, the director would tell us to be in the band room thirty minutes before the game. He threatened us if we weren't there at that time, but none of us took him THAT seriously.

And NONE of these people threatened to kill us if we decided to quit participation.

So why would anyone in their right mind decide to beome a part of a cult that want's to kill you if you change your mind? Especially if it's a religion?

Posted by: freewoman at July 6, 2006 10:40 AM

Mike_W

I repeat... you are a fuckwit.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 10:42 AM

Well freewoman, I guess that just makes me an irredeemably bad person.

Posted by: Haidon at July 6, 2006 10:46 AM

"Well freewoman, I guess that just makes me an irredeemably bad person."

-posted by Haidon

Finally, some truth.

Posted by: Mike_W at July 6, 2006 10:47 AM

A tafsir which wouldn’t acknowledge the literary meaning of 3:7, and which would even play the very contrary game, that is, base itself on apparent inconsistencies for trying to counter quite clear affirmations and orders – now that would be laughable. Pitifully so.

Posted by: ajm at July 6, 2006 10:51 AM

western infidel,

"We both know that the problem in Islam is what's written in the koran. The faithful believe it to be the immutable word of their god and in doing so will indeed emulate their so-called prophet. This leads to 'good' Muslims into doing things like murder, paedophilia and the like. If we could persuade the Ummah to recall all those errant korans, so they can be pulped, we could produce a revised version with all the offensive passages taken out and harmony will prevail. "

In simple words, the terrorists are simply being good Muslims.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 6, 2006 10:58 AM

Mike_W,

"Go and read up on the life of Mohammed and the history of Islam, then ask yourself how anyone could voluntarily take Islam as their chosen faith....or defend it if born into it."

This thread and the interesting debate shows how true every word you have posted as far standing up for the facts.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 6, 2006 11:01 AM

No, Haidon, that doesn't make you a "bad" person. I does make me wonder why you would subject yourself to a blood thirsty ideology. It makes me think you are a confused person. Or a glutton for punishment.

Is it the ideology that a man is supreme being, the reason you joined islam? Does your wife tell you that , you don't have to prove to her you're a man, she's seen you naked?

Do you believe the "scientific" portions of the koran? You know, the puddle, the mountains, the moon, semen from the back, blood clot, etc?

I don't see the "greatness" of islam. I don't see what would draw a sane, common, law abiding citizen to this cult.

Posted by: freewoman at July 6, 2006 11:03 AM

Haidon,
This was 'misunderstanders of koran' just starting in.

http://india.indymedia.org/en/2003/03/3571.shtml

Posted by: arjun.sevak at July 6, 2006 11:31 AM

Thomas, belief in Jesus Christ makes a lot more sense than following the land pirate muhammad.
Go back to the beginning and study from Genesis...you will find Jesus from the 3rd chapter
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,
and you will strike his heel."
To the Revelation of Christ.
Come back to the light out of darkness, Jesus is the answer. You are too smart to stay in islam.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 6, 2006 11:43 AM

Haidon,

I think your comments have been thoughtful and interesting. I have a couple of questions:

1) What is your opinion of the example set forth by the Prophet Muhammad as documented in the Ahadith of Bukhari and Muslim?

2) How could tasfir be utilized to "contextualize" the anti-woman verses in the Quran such as 2.228, 2.282, 4.11 & 4.34?....or the entirety of Surah 9?...or the prohibition of friendship with Christians and Jews (5.51)?

Posted by: Cornelius at July 6, 2006 11:58 AM

Carolyn2,

I know we should give people on here the benefit of the doubt and take what they say at face value. But Haidon is a Hydra-like troll. He is using a guise of respectability and moderation but is unable to conceal his true thoughts. Notice his mocking and arrogant tone. WSW & americaningermany, would you feel safe in a room with this character? Don't waste your pearls on this swine.

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 12:11 PM

Gimme that old time terrorism,
Gimme that old time terrorism,
Gimme that old time terrorism,
It's good enough for me!

The more the maniacal murderers of Mohammadism enact the cruel tenets of the pedophile "prophet", the more the dhimmified dolts of the West will wake.

Let hell break loose in Muslim lands under Muslim hands and by Muslim commands.

Let the mask of the Green Death (al-Qur'an) fall away.

Let's see the smiling skull of Allah nakedly at play.

'God' of slaves and mind-death.

By his fruits ye shall know him:

Rapine, slaughter, intolerance, intimidation, and global despotic doom.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 6, 2006 2:34 PM

western infidel, Thomas Haidon is known to us here at JW. I believe he is about ready to leave the false religion of islam. He is educated, and a western "revert", he knows that Christianity is peace and anyone who can read knows the qur'an is full of hatred and war. Just a gentle nudge from the "hound of heaven" could make a difference. Conversion to any other religion is what we have to hope for.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 6, 2006 2:39 PM

Carolyn2-

As an agnostic, I would still have to agree that Jesus would sure beat the hell out of Mohammad (metaphorically?) in Mr. Haidon's case, than remaining in the thrall of a Medusan tangle of vicious suras, pseudo-"compassionate" ones, and the bizarre example a "prophet" who was schizophrenic, at best.

Funny how someone can sound relatively rational, but buy a crock at the core of the cosmos.

Give me Lao Tzu and Basho and Boehme and Bahubali over the desert pedophile any day.

And The Christ's love over the approved assassination of a woman poet by medacious Mo.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 6, 2006 3:12 PM

"...mendacious Mo...", of course.

In answer to Mr. Haidon's initial question, one of the Five Pillars of Islam is to require daily prayer.

But I've never read that not fulfilling this "duty" has ever yet mandated a death sentence in Islam.

However, since the creed is somewhat open to 're-interpretation', as you hope, this seems merely to be one of those new, thorny tasfirs (commentaries). Beware!

Beware of what you wish for...

The 'sword of reform' within Islam is VERY double-edged.

And tends toward the bloody side, due to a history of cruel conquest.

These Somali 'interpreters' can only be 'argued' with by the same means they use: force.

Or, by deadly default, they win.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 6, 2006 3:34 PM

Well, what about Christians and the Crusades?

I suggest your read The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer

Here is a link so you can purchase it immediately:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895260131/qid=1152216340/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-5617128-6445416?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

While you are waiting for that book in the mail, read this:

Modern Aftermath of the Crusades
Zenit Interview of Robert Spencer

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/zaftcrus.HTM

Nice posts Mike_W, well made points left unanswered

Posted by: adobe at July 6, 2006 4:15 PM

I hope the Somalis like being shot at for whatever reason, because this is the fate they chose when they shot at American troops, which were just trying to help feed them.

Posted by: ethoman at July 6, 2006 5:09 PM

Ethoman, that's a good reason to keep arms out of the ignorant and fanatics hands.

The U.N. needs to disarm Africa and islamists instead of worrying about us in America.

Posted by: freewoman at July 6, 2006 5:29 PM

ethoman-

It's like the German philosopher said:

"They're like crabs stuck in a pit. Try to help them out, and they claw you. Leave them alone, and they walk backwards."

Islam is lame.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 6, 2006 5:35 PM

Haidon, who are you to argue against a member of the Supreme Islamic Council?!
Sit down, shut up and SUBMIT!
Or be killed by a sharia appointed executioner.
Your choice.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 6, 2006 5:55 PM

Carolyn2,

Don't be too sure with this guy. You don't leave the Christian faith to become a 'dabbling' Muslim. Yes he may be educated but that only makes him suitable imam material. His intentions are probably narcissistic and toying with Christian evangelicals is his way of getting his rocks off.

Posted by: western infidel at July 6, 2006 7:49 PM

Lets see... If i can follow the Logic of the Islamo Nazis...

A. Islam demands DEATH to all Jews, Christians, Hindus, Frogs but its a religion of peace

B. Islam demands DEATH to all who try to leave islams Demonic teachings... but Islam is tolerant and wont force you (yea right)

C. Islam Demands DEATH to all Infidels who oppose its DARK evil Plans .. but Islam is really the only path to peace

D. Islam demands the Submission (ie slavery) of all Dhimminis and if they dont pay the Islamic EXTORTION (Jizra) tax then the penalty is DEATH.. but islam jsut wants to protect you from the followers of Islam...

E. Islam teaches and its founder encouraged (Mass Rape of cative women, Child molesting, Incest, sexual slavery of women, so called 10 minute marriages (infidelity), Beastiality) (mohammed claimed you had to sell the meat to a poor sap down the road after you were done with the poor animal (animal abuse peta where are you?)...
but Islam claims that it stands for sexual purity

F. Islam claims to protect the innocent (yes we see each and every day as) in iraq and afghanistan old women and children handicapped men and other poor saps are blown to smitherines by both shia and sunni followers of the religion of pieces Islam

G. Islam tells its followers to tell the truth EXCEPT when
Its to an Infidel, Jew, Polythiest, earthworm or any contract that is against Islam (in essences anything a muslim states, signs or agrees to) cannot be trusted as mohammed himself said it is perfectly acceptable to LIE CHEAT and STEAL if the AIM is to SLAUGHTER non muslims...

but islam is truthful...

H: Islam states there is no compulsion in religion (But if you forget to pray) Islam demands your DEATH...

I: Islam says there is no be-heading except if you.. A Jew, Christian, Hindu , polythiest , earthworm or NON Muslim but Islam is a religion of piece.

J: Islam states it never targets the innocent (Belsan children school, Hospitals) where the children are Gang Raped by Muslims screaming allah akbar before they blow up the school or emergency room (but islam cares for the wounded) Like the Nazis did when they shot all the wounded because it slowed them down..

K: Islam says be at peace with your new countrymen (until you are strong enough to kill them all and take over).... but islam and muslims are loyal citizens

Gee with logic like this...

why wouldnt all the evil people in arab lands want to follow the teachings of an insane Child molesting, saidst and butcher named mohammed...

MORONS...

No wonder the muslim clerics are afraid of freedom... because if the 1.x billion muslims ever found out what a LOOSER , LIER madman they were following they would all leave Islam in a heartbeat..

Islam the religion of pieces...

Wherever islam goes
Everything ends up in pieces

Pork be on mohammeds DEAD DEMONIC ASS

Posted by: jingoist at July 6, 2006 7:54 PM

jingoist-

There's a lady name Rice I'd like you to meet.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 6, 2006 8:06 PM

I want to make this clear...

I do not hate arabs..
I also do not believe God hates any person..

But the sheer insanity of the logic is just maddening...

Posted by: jingoist at July 6, 2006 8:29 PM

The ultimate perversion on earth: ISLAM....

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at July 6, 2006 9:12 PM

western infidel, you could be right.
Thomas Haidon and I have had our arguments here before, but he at least doesn't usually get rowdy like some others. He seems to be as "moderate" as a muslim can be and still be a muslim. I do view him with suspicion and he knows it.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 6, 2006 10:48 PM

Haidon the moderate Muslim states: "I have never, ever attempted to sugarcoat Islam."

So what are we to conclude of the Islam you choose to follow? You like your Islam bitter and sugarless? Or did you find a chewy nougat center that hundreds of millions of other Muslims have not found? And if its the latter, where does Mohammed fit into it?

Posted by: Television at July 6, 2006 11:17 PM

Haidon's attempt to construct a divine and peaceful Islam is far more torturous than the attempts millions of Westerners have made over the past couple of centuries in constructing a Christianity based on a non-divine Jesus.

Posted by: Television at July 6, 2006 11:33 PM

Someday Haidon will realize exactly WHO he is worshipping . . . I hope he finds out in time.

Posted by: CGW at July 7, 2006 7:13 AM

Clearly Sheikh Abdalla Ali needs to be a speaker at IslamExpo in London as part of the PR to educate about Islam.

Posted by: Odysseus at July 7, 2006 9:38 AM

If there are any web pages available about the history of Jihad Terrorism in Somalia, please post links to them on Jihad Watch.

Posted by: Christian at July 7, 2006 10:39 AM

Uh . . . that should have been WHOM he is worshipping.

But don't we all already know?

Posted by: CGW at July 7, 2006 10:51 AM

After spending a good part of an afternoon reading T. Haidon's writings, I don't think he is ready to leave islam. I can't understand just what he thinks will "moderate" islam, the qur'an is to be believed without interpretation. /period
How can he not believe in the literal writings when it is specifically ordered.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 7, 2006 7:48 PM

Haidon is just your typical Islamist. He doesn’t believe in the texts, he just uses them because he sees how they can give him some power. In this world.

Posted by: ajm at July 8, 2006 12:41 AM