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Anti-dhimmitude from The Sunday Times: "No offence, imam, but we must call it Islamic terror"
After the terrorist outrages of July 7, 2005, most Londoners have continued to travel by bus, train and Underground. They are more vigilant, but few seem to experience anxiety about a repeat attack during their journey. That is remarkable because objectively the chances of another massacre must be higher than a year ago.
Last year the bombs were the first shock. The second was to discover that the terrorists were suicide bombers and British. We could have coped with the outrage more easily had the murderers been foreigners, raised in squalor, brainwashed under a theocratic dictatorship and shipped here to massacre people for whom they had no kindred feelings.
Once we understand that, we feel less safe. Also, things have got worse over the past year. Although there has been no anti-Islamic backlash it seems that many British Muslims feel victimised by the authorities’ response to terror. They think they face discrimination when stopped and searched. The bungled police operation in Forest Gate has become an emblem of supposed repression.
Even peace-loving Muslim spokesmen feel obliged to give credence to the perception that their community is being unfairly harassed. It causes some young Muslim men to withdraw further from a British society claimed to be hostile. At best that surrounds the terrorists with a penumbra of disaffected Muslims who may not condemn their crimes or denounce their murderous plots. At worst it enlarges the pool from which new bombers can be recruited.
It is there that Al-Qaeda has scored its greatest success. More significant for the long term than the bombs is the impact that terror has in dividing the groups that make up our society, and in increasing the appeal of militancy to those who can be duped into seeing themselves as repressed.
[...]
So to try to condemn the expression "Islamic violence" is a dangerous attempt at censorship that would hamper our understanding of the threat we face. The term is certainly offensive to Muslims, but the offence is caused by the bombers, not by those who describe the process.
Last week Tony Blair caused a furore by calling on Muslims to do more to control, denounce or deliver up the men who preach and practise violence. Some Muslim spokesmen said that was a divisive remark that stigmatised Muslims instead of recognising that the problem was one for British society as a whole.
Read it all.
Posted by Marisol at July 9, 2006 8:18 PM
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More significant for the long term than the bombs is the impact that terror has in dividing the groups that make up our society"
This article is a great conceptual leap forward, but it still falls short. The nub of the problem arises when Islam itself mandates the supreme separation of the world into the camp of believers (the Muslims) and non-believers (all the rest).
Whereas Mr. Portillo obviously buys into the notion that there is a multifaceted but single British "society" -- the Muslims don't and WILL NOT buy into this notion because of their belief in Islam. The devil is in the details of that distinction.
Posted by: jsla![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 9, 2006 9:15 PM
yes, i was thinking along the same lines. good clarity, but wishful thinking at the end.
i don't know if churchill would do any differently, by the way, the muslims going about their business in our communities are for the most part ... just going about their business. you and i can imagine the effect of their doubling and doubling in percentage; it will become decreasingly comfortable, as many will have a political chip on their shoulders the size of muhammed's list of innocent victims.
so we wait for the european renaissance with some hope; but may be waiting in vain for an expulsion, for an end to the third jihad.
pity that folks are powerless, trapped by a sense of what decency requires.
Posted by: StillBreathing at July 9, 2006 10:04 PM
On 9/11 this year we will be holding an Anti-Islam protest at the ASU Mosque on Mill ave. We will have signs that say "Mohammed is the prophet of Satan" and "Allah = Satan" we will be stomping on Korans and burning Palestinian flags. Anyone who wants to attend be there by 11:30 AM.
Posted by: alShaytan at July 9, 2006 10:29 PM
"we will be stomping on Korans..."
-- from a posting above
That would be a grave error and would play into the hands of CAIR. I hope you reconsider. But I also hope that you will carry signs on which instead of brief slogans, you will have written, in large letters, certain Qur'anic passages -- such as 9.29 and 9.5. A half-dozen, in very large lettering, would be good. And so would a few signs that mention: Asma bint Marwan, the farmers of the Khaybar Oasis, the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza, little Aisha, and so on. Make sure those signs appear in duplicate and make sure they are used wherever a protest against a Muslim word or act or institution occurs -- make sure the cameras show not only the signs (not hand-written, but professionally produced) but also, if interviewed, discuss what is in Qur'an and Hadith. Force the coverage into what you want it to be -- not a spectacle of crude hatred, easily dismissed, but the much more deadly act of education.
Imagine, after all, that you are a Muslim living in Infidel lands. You know what is in the Qur'an and Hadith. You know what those passages mean and what Muslims have, over 1350 years, naturally taken them to mean. So you have to work night and day, trying to pretend that those texts do not mean what they say. You have to make sure that the Infidels metaphorically never go into that room in the back of your house, and open that door, and discover what you have been trying to hide from them.
The greatest danger for them is that Infidels will find out what Islam teaches, and how the Qur'an is, through the doctrrine of naskh, still more hate-filled and violent than it might at first appear. That is what worries. Not someone playing into their hands by "stomping on Korans."
Plan this as you would a propaganda campaign during a world war. For that is exactly what it should be. Do not supply ammunition to those who do not wish you well.
Posted by: Hugh at July 9, 2006 10:54 PM
al Shaytan
I agree with Hugh. Reserve stomping on Qurans (or better still, burning them) for the next terror attack. For now, just carry signs that show real Quranic passages. They should suffice.
If you are accused of spreading hate, that would be revealing, given that none of that material is your original creation.
Oh, btw, I loved your video and companion music. I suspect not many may share my admiration.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 9, 2006 11:10 PM
No.
Posted by: Shinoliite at July 9, 2006 11:11 PM
This article is indeed a small victory, but a welcome one nonetheless (particularly coming on the heels of the "BBC bans 'dhimmi'" post.) I would like to know if anyone else has noticed an increase in the use of the words "islamic" and "jihadist" over the past week or two, or is it just me? Baby-steps to be sure, but it seems to me that the veil of politically correct idiocy is lifting slightly. We will never be able to confront this problem until the masses acknowledge its existence.
al Shaytan: Hugh is right (as ever.) Far safer and far more effective if you follow his advice.
Posted by: IrishEi at July 9, 2006 11:54 PM
Al-Shaytan,
Hugh's right.
"Do not supply ammunition to those who do not wish you well."
Those histrionics (stomping on Korans, etc) which you propose won't work. Instead, they'll backfire, making you come across like the extremists against whom you are protesting.
If you are protesting outside a mosque, Hugh's approach (drawing attention a few carefully selected quotes and issues) is ideal because it shows what is being preached inside the mosque.
After having read the "kill them all" madness at the "bombIslam" site, there's no way I'd support what you propose, and I doubt that the vast majority of population would support it.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 9, 2006 11:56 PM
I wish you good luck with your protest in front of that mosque no matter what you do. Even if you do stomp on the koran or burn flags it is not even close to doing the evil muslims do all of the time.
Posted by: Truth at July 10, 2006 12:22 AM
alShaytan,If you resort to muslim tactics to express your outrage and disgust for Islam, albeit entirely justified, you will look like just another offshoot of the KKK or similar group of bigots/supremacists. Don't give the likes of CAIR any more ammunition to encourage the muslim entitlement/victimization mentality; they invent enough as it is.
I think your protest would be more effective if you use methods entirely averse to the muslim foaming-at-the-mouth, maniacal rampages like those that ensued after the cartoon controversy.
I can certainly empathize with your urge to burn Qur'ans. You could vent your rage privately with a bonfire and party in your back yard attended by your family, neighbors, and friends. Society has lowered the standards of decency and civil comportment for muslims because they are expected to behave like petulant wretches. PC does not permit the verbalization of this odious but tacit distinction. If you expect to be taken seriously, you must adhere to a higher standard of public behavior than muslims.
Posted by: Susanp at July 10, 2006 12:37 AM
Al Shaytan, if you want to do something pro-active with your family and friends, why don't you celebrate the date when Charles Martel defeated the muslims on 10th October 732, and when King Jan Sobieski defeated the muslim Turks in 1683 on the 12th September.
As was said, you can have a Koran burning in your backyard, eat pork and ham, and drink beer. You could also have a re-enactment of the occasion with some-one dressing up as Charles Martel, or King Jan Sobieski. Maybe you could even put on the play "Mahomet" with all your friends playing one of the parts.
Maybe we should ALL do this on this day!
Posted by: Voltaire at July 10, 2006 1:30 AM
Al Shaytan, if you want to do something pro-active with your family and friends, why don't you celebrate the date when Charles Martel defeated the muslims on 10th October 732, and when King Jan Sobieski defeated the muslim Turks in 1683 on the 12th September.VoltaireAs was said, you can have a Koran burning in your backyard, eat pork and ham, and drink beer. You could also have a re-enactment of the occasion with some-one dressing up as Charles Martel, or King Jan Sobieski. Maybe you could even put on the play "Mahomet" with all your friends playing one of the parts.
Maybe we should ALL do this on this day!
Posted by: Voltaire
Absolutely worthless suggestions. As for a Quran burning in the backyard, any of us can do that now, without attracting any attention. And anniversaries like that of the battle of Poitier's are so obscure, except to perhaps an avid student of French history, that it'll be lost on the populace at large. And doing it in the privacy of ones own home ensures that it goes totally unnoticed by anybody, and a barbecue would be no different from the average garden variety barbecue that one can have any summer weekend.
al Shaytan wanted to commemorate 9/11 with a public protest, and came up with the above idea. Suggesting carrying placards with Quranic verses, instead of stomping on Qurans, is a constructive suggestion. Asking him to go home and have a barbecue which nobody outside his circle notices is an asinine alternative. If what drives your suggestion above is the desire that no public anti-Islamic demonstration takes place, then you can stuff that idea of yours where the monkey stuffed the peanuts.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 10, 2006 2:00 AM
al Shaydan, there is a leaflet here which was drafted specifically to counter the Islam Expo which took place on the anniversary of the London bombings.
I believe that the author intends to re-draft it for general use within the UK in due course. It would need a different redrafting again to make it suitable for US use. But most of the points recommended by Hugh above, ie "mention: Asma bint Marwan, the farmers of the Khaybar Oasis, the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza, little Aisha," are covered within it.
There might be a few lines or paragraphs there that you could use for your event.
at July 10, 2006 4:02 AM
al-Shaytan-
Got to agree with Hugh.
We have to outwit the halfwits, not match wits with them.
If you want to get the SAME effect of "stomping on Korans", but then turn the tables on those who are ready to be p.c. knee-jerk "outraged", try this little psyops manouver:
-Get junk books at a thift shop that could appear to be the size of a usual Koran, wrap them in plain heavy brown paper covers with the word KORAN neatly printed on them, and stomp on these.
Then, when the "desecration" effect is being registered (or police begin to move in to prevent this "hatespeech"), rip the plain covers off the books to show that the volumes are actually innocent old Latin or Geometry or Ken Follett tomes.
This would expose the brainless nature of such faux "outrage" ("They aren't even Korans, you idiots! But you are so gullible, you'll believe ANYTHING!") And you thereby achieve a double-whammy propaganda victory.
You get to "stomp on a 'Koran', and defeat it, too".
By both not being blamed -because you did not really do it- and by bringing out the Pavlovian fury of the Islamo-morons with a cheap trick.
The desired effect is achieved, -and then some.
Utilize the robotically-delusional nature of the enemy against them.
And use their own Koranic words to smack them in the puss with their own murderous intolerance.
Nothing we can say against the Koran is as crazy as what it preaches in its own vile dogmas.
Print up Sura 9:29-30.
And Bukhari's Hadith 2;26;666-667.
Bring out the worst in them by showing the best of our side.
Our superior cunning as well as our supreme disgust.
If I'm in the neighborhood, I'll be there.
I'll wear a blue scarf.
Posted by: profitsbeard at July 10, 2006 4:16 AM
Perhaps we should go further and gold gild the Qur'an?
Posted by: Mike_W at July 10, 2006 4:36 AM
alShaytan, Hugh et al - Asalamau-laikum to you,
While you have a right to feel aggrieved with what happend on 9/11, I think perhaps you need to sit & think about this.
Think about what your action means to peaceful loving wuslims amongst you. They work hard, do a lot of the jobs nobody else amongst you want to do and do them amicabily. To an extent they already feel alienated....a lot of this is down to action of externals I know...but wuslims still have some fragile faith in the indeginious infedel of "doing the right thing for integration".
Your actions however will serve to cause further disintegration ....ghettoising....single faith schools, ....lack of integration.
In the mean time the wuslim population will continue to grow....immigration of muslims will also continue and parts of most cities will be alien to YOU because of your actions today....is that what you want?
alShaytan,...don't do this...because if you do I predict that within decades you will have PARTITION of the USA....like India-Pak.
Muslims/Wuslims will want their own country within the USA because you have made it impossible for US Wuslim citizens to live side by side with you. Think about that !!!!
You know what would come next....Sharia in that new country (ISA) within the USA, Islamic business, banks mosques, masjids, madrassas, Islamic taylors, Islamic coke, halal food...mind you having said that ...it sounds just like Pak...hmmmmm. perhaps not so bad after all...ummm, I'm confused now ....perhaps you should go ahead...I can wait a couple of decades for this!
at July 10, 2006 4:45 AM
"They work hard"
hahaha
"do a lot of the jobs nobody else amongst you want to do and do them amicabily. To an extent they already feel alienated"
Ok, they want to commit mass murder but do it amicably.
"Your actions however will serve to cause further disintegration ....ghettoising....single faith schools, ....lack of integration."
Riiiiggghhhhttt..more lack of integration...our fault obviously..got it.
"In the mean time the wuslim population will continue to grow"
Gotta cut back on those freebies to genocidal ethnic minorities in the way of health cae etc.
"....immigration of muslims will also continue and parts of most cities will be alien to YOU"
Obviously...
Seriously, is that you dressed up in a burqua for comic relief Hugh?
"because of your actions today"
yes, self defence is terrible and useless...we will all be assimilated.
"alShaytan,...don't do this...because if you do I predict that within decades you will have PARTITION of the USA,"
Yes, you guys have good guys and bad guys too, we are all one big human fraternity :)
"Muslims/Wuslims will want their own country within the USA because you have made it impossible for US Wuslim citizens to live side by side with you."
Naseem wants a burial where she won't be dug up a week later and thrown to the dogs...ie a burial in the 'oh so thoughtfull to our minorities', U.S.A."
"You know what would come next....Sharia in that new country (ISA) within the USA, Islamic business, banks mosques, masjids, madrassas, Islamic taylors, Islamic coke, halal food...mind you having said that ...it sounds just like Pak...hmmmmm. perhaps not so bad after all...ummm, I'm confused now ....perhaps you should go ahead...I can wait a couple of decades for this!"
Naseem, who are you?
at July 10, 2006 5:26 AM
Naseem
Would you not be better spending some time with your sons, grieving your recently deceased husband quietly.
The Jews have a custom of sitting shivva (Jewish posters will tell me if I have got this wrong) where a widow, and beareved family are cared for by their friends for a period while grief is at it most acute, and so that they can concenrate on grieving, during which period they accept the condolences of their friends. It always seemed to me that this was a good idea to prevent the later problems caused by "bottleing it up"
Go and quietly mourn your husband.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at July 10, 2006 5:38 AM
I would like to know if anyone else has noticed an increase in the use of the words "islamic" and "jihadist" over the past week or two, or is it just me?
I've noticed it too. Sometimes the word "Islamist" is used interchangeably with "Islamic". I used to be a bit of a purist about the word "Islamist"; there is, of course, no distinction between Islam and "Islamism". But now I think that it is better people talk about the real Islam, even if they use the wrong word for it.
Posted by: Interested at July 10, 2006 6:41 AM
Infidel Pride,
Any public anti-Islamic demonstration outside a mosque could get you stalked and killed by muslims.
If you did that in England or Europe, then you could get arrested by the police for committing a hate crime.
Even in the state of Victoria, in Australia, two pastors got sentenced by a judge, for repeating verses from the Koran.
What I'm saying is don't put yourself in danger.
Posted by: Voltaire at July 10, 2006 6:55 AM
Infidel Pride,
Any public anti-Islamic demonstration outside a mosque could get you stalked and killed by muslims.
If you did that in England or Europe, then you could get arrested by the police for committing a hate crime.
Even in the state of Victoria, in Australia, two pastors got sentenced by a judge, for repeating verses from the Koran.
What I'm saying is don't put yourself in danger.
Posted by: Voltaire at July 10, 2006 6:55 AM
Glad to see the tide is changing in Britian. For too long they have left the high ground to the unhinged left and the "moderate" muslims.
My wife is Polish and therefore I endorse the celebrating the great victory of Sobieski over the Ottomans thus going a good way to preventing us all from being enslaved.
Posted by: Gunfire at July 10, 2006 7:38 AM
Interested:
I would like to know if anyone else has noticed an increase in the use of the words "islamic" and "jihadist" over the past week or two, or is it just me?
Glad to see that someone else has noticed it too. I agree, the correct term is not always used, but at this point I am happy to see any reference whatsoever to Islam, Muslim, or jihad as opposed to youths, Asians, etc. Even President Bush used the word "jihadist" a week or so ago. (I believe it was when he was criticizing the NY Times exposure of the SWIFT program.) I nearly fell off my chair when I heard it! Certainly this development is fairly miniscule and is frustratingly late in coming, but any movement in the right direction is an improvement.
We must continue to reveal the problems with Islam in a civilized and rational manner and hope that the world opens its eyes before it is too late.
Posted by: IrishEi
at July 10, 2006 8:32 AM
Wa Alekum Esalaam, Naseem
I'm very sorry to hear about your recent loss. I pray that God will give you peace and comfort.
I see in your last post that you predict, with the inevitable (although it could be dabated how inevitable it is) growth of Muslim populations in the West that there will be an eventual partitioning of countries like the United States. This begs the question in my mind why this sort of measures only seem to become necessary when Islam is involved. Whether it's India or Israel there seems to come a point where a division (partitioning) needs to be made between Muslims and non-Muslims. Indeed the only times when there is any semblance of "harmony" (and I stretch that term to its grossest extreme here) in nations with a significant Muslim population is when they are in a position of dominance.
I can understand that this is in keeping with Islamic teaching that Islam is to "dominate and not be dominated" et cetera but it is exactly this that makes Islam peculiar among the world's religions. The rest of us seem to be able to keep our faith a personal matter, practicing in our own lives and "rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" without real difficulty. Indeed most of us recognise that our own flawed readings of our own religious teachings (even if they are perfect and divinely inspired, as I believe mine to be) that it would be wrong to try to enforce them on others and that it is best for people to govern themselves with general consensus.
It seems that Islam and Islamic teaching are the causal factor in the events that lead to "inevitable" partitioning. No other religious or ethnic group makes the same demands so it's difficult to imagine that anything less than capitulating to all of Islam's triumphalist demands.
I heard a Muslim cleric today trying to answer the question: "Was Islam spread by the sword" - Rather than answer the question directly he ambled through a lengthy discourse stating that Islam is from the root word "salaam" (meaning peace) and is defined as surrender or submission. This, I think, is at the heart of the matter - the only terms Muslims offer peace on is through submission to their way of doing things.
If you're concerned about Muslims feeling alienated in the West then you should turn your attention to the Islamic teachings which state in fairly unequivocal terms that the infidels are "najis" (filthy) - it's not nice to find oneself on the same list as urine, semen and faecal solids. These attitudes manifest themselves in ways large and small - from the txt messages circulating among Sydney's recent Lebanese gang-rapists to the woman in the kebab shop dropping my change on the counter so she wouldn't have to touch my filthy infidel hand.
None of these things go unnoticed, neither does it go unnoticed that it is peculiar to Islam. The West has many and varied ethnic communities and many of my countrymen would agree with me that Australia just wouldn't be Australia without our relatively recent Greek and Vietnamese communities to name just a few. In short, Islam seems to be like a child that's always telling their friends what to do then wonders why nobody wants to play with them.
(This is a long post - sorry - I should wrap it up)
In refence to the article above - I must agree that the term "Islamic violence" is offensive because of the bombers not those who describe what they do.
I pray that you'll come to know the love of Iesus Christos, Naseem.
Pax
- 'Skarr
Posted by: Razorskarr at July 10, 2006 8:33 AM
Raz....
If you are subject to distain from a Kebab shop employee then may I suggest you stop going there, take them out of the loop.
If you crave a kebab get a recipe off the net, buy the ingredients and make it yourself. You will then know what you are actually eating, it's most certainly likely to be better quality and you take away the possibility of being poisoned.
Posted by: Turbinehead at July 10, 2006 8:50 AM
Turbinehead,
Actually I just go to their competitors across the road from them . . . I find the East European lady there (always greeting customers, ALL of them, as: "my beautiful gentlemen/ladies") it's much more pleasant place to eat and the kebabs can't be beat.
I also fancy the West African girl who works there . . .
Posted by: Razorskarr at July 10, 2006 8:55 AM
Raz....
Glad to know you have the option. Competition and the exercise of choice.
Posted by: Turbinehead at July 10, 2006 9:22 AM
Naseem, your blood cult of a religion will not survive as Nazi Germany didnt survive. The West will get pushed too far and you will rue the day Mohammed was spawned from Hell.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 9:28 AM
Gunfire, I am also one of these Polish wives ;-)
regards to yours and let's keep up our good work ..of Polish wives!
at July 10, 2006 10:32 AM
alShaytan,
I agree with Hugh and all of the others about the signs and various things to put on them, but I think that if you want to go ahead and stomp on a Qur’an, you go right ahead. The last time I checked this was a free country and there’s nothing saying you can’t. They can burn our flag in their countries as well as on the streets of New York City, so you go right ahead and express your freedom …while you still can.
Burn one if you’d like to. Burn several. The less there are, the better off mankind will be. As a word of caution, however, I’d be prepared to document the many, many times reported that a bible has been stomped, burned, defecated on, and whatever other abuses Muslims have dealt out on others and be prepared to shove that information down the throats of anyone who has any problems with your actions.
Bring cameras and film and document everything and upload it afterwards. Those of us who would love to be there but can’t would love to watch whatever you capture!
The very, very best of luck to you!
Oh, and to you, Naseem …I would love to see it become more difficult for ‘wuslims’ to live in the US. No, they would not divide this country, but rather all of those who had grievances with the local infidel populace would be shipped away, deported, and sent back to their stinking hellholes. Good riddance to bad garbage, I say.
Posted by: MaxInfidel at July 10, 2006 10:56 AM
The comment by Naseem above is revealing. She apparently cannot conceive of the Western world halting all Muslim immigration, and working to deport all those who are non-citizens (there is no god-given right to live in any country one wishes, not least if the mental baggage you bring with you is a mortal danger to the laws, customs, political institutions, social arrangements and assumptions of that country), and then stripping of citizenship those who cannot, in truth, swear allegiance -- and mean it -- to that Infidel nation-state.
This is beyond her.
at July 10, 2006 10:59 AM
But when will the West have the will to truly fight Islam? Britian is bending over as we speak.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 11:01 AM
There is a limit to everything, including British patience.
Posted by: US_infidel at July 10, 2006 11:38 AM
Its too late for the Brits
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 11:39 AM
Naseem,
Think about this. What about all those peace-loving infidels, who work hard and pay taxes who had their loved ones murdered by jihadists?
As to demonstrating outside a mosque. Several are saying it's too dangerous, and dangerous it surely will be.
The thing is, if this gets started then more and more people may lose their fear of doing just THAT.
This what we need before anything will ever change. I said this on another thread, but the comments were deleted! We NEED to be able to show our disdain for islam in the open before anything can ever change!
That means in FORCE! I mean if a million people can take to the streets in France to protest and CHANGE employment laws, then why can't the same thing happen regarding the islamization of our nations?
Illegal aliens took the streets in the United States to DEMAND RIGHTS that are not due them!
Hundreds of thousands of illegals poured into our streets without fear of repercussions.
Our lawmakers will never sit up and take notice if we are afraid to challenge what is happening in our countries!
Posted by: AIG at July 10, 2006 11:45 AM
Assalamau Laikum Hugh,
In truth this may or may not be beyond me. I can see that in difficult times a law may be passed to send all temporary staff peoples back to their countries of citizenship...that part is easy for the administration.
What ofcourse is not only beyond me, but I feel beyond infedel governments too is what to do with with "indeginious wuslims" (i.e. they have US citizenship) ...how will you (legally)strip citizenship off them?
It will be very difficult to achieve this...there may be laws passed to revoke citizenship if terror links are shown ....but proof of this will be hard to come by (I am not against this idea per-say), it will be challenged every step of the way by able wuslims and/or corrupt infedel lawyers out to make a fast rupee/name for themselves.
Infedels themselves will fight this tenet themselves..."we cannot allow individuals to lose citizenship....big brother cannot be allowed to rule, no matter what is at stake".
As to muslim immigration...unless someone from this forum gets elected....or there is another attack of 9/11 proportions....nothing will happen...peoples can wish for something...but it does not mean that it will happen, so please do keep looking out for more burkas, more mosques & more high quality speaker reproduction of 1400 years old Quaranic suras at 5am or 10pm.
In the end I think that sheer numbers will carry the day...geriatric infedels who will reminise and remember the "good old days" will be only too pleased with USA partition ....if it means that wuslims will be out of their hair, not governed by cumbersome US laws.
I am all for getting rid of the terror....I have said this repeatedly...and that is what the FBI/CIA will do very well and more grease to their elbow....this means it keeps the wuslim safe & sound in the USA ...whose grandoise numbers ultimately will lead to the ISA within the USA....even if it the size of a hankerchief ...it's laws will be sharia and it is so because of the will of Allah.
The geriatric infedel will be pleased as will the wuslim...it's a win-win situation and only a few of decades away.
Posted by: Naseem at July 10, 2006 11:59 AM
more grease to their elbow
Gold start for you. Stick to your laurels.
Posted by: Interested at July 10, 2006 12:18 PM
Dream on Naseem. America isnt like Europe. You will push us too far and say goodbye to your blood cult religion. We crushed Nazism, we can crush Islam too. You can keep your 3rd world shitholes though.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 12:21 PM
As to muslim immigration...unless someone from this forum gets elected....or there is another attack of 9/11 proportions....nothing will happen...
posted by Naseem
I hate to say it, but I agree Naseem. We know what needs to happen, but chances are it won't.
I also have no solutions as to how to get things moving in our direction.
As to getting rid of the terror. Do you really think that is possible, even under the scenario you described?
Posted by: AIG at July 10, 2006 12:22 PM
I must be feeling defeated today, it's unlike me to agree with Naseem, but it is so darned frustrating watching how people are unwilling to get up and move on this issue!!!
Elricc66 I hope in that case that they pull another terrorist stunt.
We've said before: Worse is better!
Time to wake up people.
Of course the terrorists stationed in the U.S. may know this and are waiting for exactly the right moment. I hope they screw up and make a big mistake soon.
One would have thought though that 9/11 would have riled the American AND European people into taking drastic measures, but if it takes some more terrorist attacks then so be it.
at July 10, 2006 12:33 PM
Its sad to say but I rather have another attack to wake up the US than have to have us wake up to the fact we replaced the Constitution with the Qur'an.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 12:39 PM
Naseem
One more thing. Despite the plethora of PC politicians, we saw how they came together against Islamic terror in the wake of 9/11. In other words, not only are there no Jinnahs here, there are no Gandhis nor Nehrus either. As it is, public tempers at illegal Mexicans who demonstrated publicly in support of the 'right' to benefits; just imagine what it would be if you had Muslims demanding their own country in Dearbourn or Oakland, circa India in the 1940's. Republicans & Democrats would be racing each other to pass laws not only expelling Muslim non-citizens, but also stripping Muslim citizens of their citizenship and either expelling or incarcerating them. Nobody would tolerate any Gandhis in such an environment.
However, I don't think it will come to 'Wuslim' demands for seccession; given the way that Islam as a problem is being ignored, I do think another 9/11 magnitude attack will happen, and after it does, we'll simply have to tell the Mohammedans, "Hasta la vista!"
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 10, 2006 12:45 PM
Voltaire
One would think that anyone who knows enough about Muslims, as al Shaytan seems to, would be sensible enough to go there in big numbers, not in hundreds, but thousands of demonstrators. If they do that, one would like to see how the local Tempe ummah (we aren't talking here about Lahore or Ramallah) responds. CAIR will scream foul no matter what, but I think most Americans see it at best as an Islamic advocacy annoyance group, with agendas similar to ACLU; at worst, they see it as a political arm of the Jihad, much like Sinn Fenn was the political arm of the IRA.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 10, 2006 12:52 PM
Elric, one more attack will hardly be enough in the USA. It will likely take several attacks, larger than 911, to shake the country from its dominantly powerful PC paradigm.
Posted by: Television at July 10, 2006 2:09 PM
Anyone want to help out this Dirty Kafir and tell me what is a Wuslim?
Posted by: Infidel at July 10, 2006 2:10 PM
You might be right TV, it would depend on how severe it is and what was used. Seems all these arrests arent enough. We can win it till public opinion is on our side. Otherwise, the MSM and ACLU will tri to hamstrang us at every turn.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 2:13 PM
Naseem, yes, you are right. Bin Laden is really being counterproductive to Islam.
The general guidelines in targetted infidel countries are: Have lots of kids, marry more natives (pick the defeated. this is easy in the West with their broken families and social lives, their prison numbers etc). Essentially quietly increase the numbers of willing converts.
These are better ways to gently submerge the West in Islam, rather than terrorist attacks which end up being counterproductive.
at July 10, 2006 2:33 PM
Once the magical 50% majority number is hit, the land is Islamic anyway. They can gradually change the laws to be "more Islamic".
Gentle does it.. some souls refuse to be saved, but they still must be.
Did I state your position correctly, Naseem?
Posted by: kufr at July 10, 2006 2:39 PM
Infidel,
A 'Wuslim' is simply a Muslim standing on his head...
Posted by: MaxInfidel at July 10, 2006 2:40 PM
Hey Kufr, the West doesnt want your stinking death cult in the West. Its bad enough, Islam poisoned the Middle East, we dont want it here. Stick to your shithole 3rd world countries.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 2:48 PM
Elric66, haha, you poor ignorant idiot. You personally don't want Islam (yet) and so you may.
But hundreds of thousands in the West are getting salvation and spiritual peace by reverting. More and more blacks, constantly discriminated against and hated, stuffed like animals into cages called 'prisons' for supposed crimes of being black. More and more kids from poor broken homes, brought up without love or peace are finding the peace that comes with accepting the truth, Islam. More and more girls and women, mistreated and brought up to believe their looks are their worth, are finding the freedom and solace that comes from Islam and its clothing.
There are reasons why Islam is finding more followers in your countries. Look to those.
P.S. 'kufr' means 'unbelief' in Islam. I'm not a Muslim, just a wellwisher. Get some knowledge before you shoot your mouth off about third-world shitholes, for crying out loud.
Posted by: kufr at July 10, 2006 2:56 PM
You are a moron, thats what you are.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:04 PM
"You are a moron, thats what you are.
Posted by: Elric66 [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 10, 2006 03:04 PM "
Hahaha, and that's the stage where the West shall remain.
at July 10, 2006 3:06 PM
Wow, you got me there. :-)
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:07 PM
"there may be laws passed to revoke citizenship if terror links are shown ....but proof of this will be hard to come by "
I usually ignore the posts by this specimen, but this time I have to say something to her, and all like minded "wuslims":
Wait until the terror war you're waging escalates. In your unbridled arrogance you have no idea what we "infidels" are capable of doing. Despite your delusions do you honestly think our animal instincts for self-preservation are dead!?
When WMD descends on our heads at your hands -- and it surely will happen -- there will be no limit to the fury we will bring to bear on YOUR heads. Micheal Moore, Charley Sheen, Sean Penn, and Ibrahim Hooper will not protect you from what will happen. And we won't be interested in the slightest in continuing to preserve all the niceties and generous gifts we've afforded you in our domain, and you've taken such glee and comfort in abusing and exploiting. We won't even bother with a "backlash", which is a temporary thing -- something that would pass after the fury was spent.... It will be OVER for Islam in the West, honey. And I suspect it will be OVER for Islam elsewhere too.
Muslims are playing with fire in every way. They imagine with each transgression, with each defamation, with each undermining that the West is becoming enfeebled and debased, and that Islam is gradually gaining the upper hand in all her heinousness. But after the gold rush, there will be an unshakable correlation between Islam and annihilation for us. When that day comes, all who are Muslim, and all who stand in the way of the Righteous Fury which will be unleashed against Muslims will regret it to their very core.
Dream on you wicked witch, and all your fellow practitioners of Islam. When your "tiny minority of extremists" finally lower the boom somewhere in infidel lands -- the very fact that you are a practicing Muslim will be sufficient for us to do just about ANYTHING to you and yours. The fact that you aren't doing everything in your power to forestall or prevent that day shows how utterly arrogant, and ultimately foolish the Muslims are in the West. Dream your supremacist dreams. There's a certain tragic inevitability in it all. OUR day of reckoning comes.
Posted by: jsla at July 10, 2006 3:08 PM
JSLA
There is no room for Islam and freedom in the world, one has to go. I vote for Islam to be erradicated from the planet.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:12 PM
Elric66
I think kufr was being ironic - he spelt out Naseem's position pretty well.
Infidel
'Wuslim' is Naseem's coinage for 'White Muslim'. I'd think Ibrahim Hoops would be an example.
TV
I recall there being a major anti-Islamic sentiment after 9/11, such as the case of the Paki who was boycotted by all other passengers and had to take a flight alone. You may be right, but I think it will be harder to claim that Islam is a religion of peace, particularly if the attack is done not by Arabs or Pakistanis, but by home grown Muslims or Muslim immigrants. Yes, I think one more should do it.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 10, 2006 3:13 PM
Hey kufr,
You move to Somolia yet? Experience the wonderful experience of Islam? This what you want for the West?
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:14 PM
I thought that "wuslim" meant "western muslim"
Correct me if that's wrong.
Posted by: AIG at July 10, 2006 3:17 PM
IP,
He was being sarcastic? If so, I apologize. I thought his ID didnt match his rhetoric.Sometimes its hard to pick up sarcasm on a message board.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:17 PM
Unfortunately I think jsla is a prophet.
"But after the gold rush, there will be an unshakable correlation between Islam and annihilation for us. When that day comes, all who are Muslim, and all who stand in the way of the Righteous Fury which will be unleashed against Muslims will regret it to their very core."
I think this pretty well sums up what will happen if the trends in place do not change soon enough. When the event happens ( and it will if the trends in place don't change ) the people of the United States will indeed become the Great Shaytan and will release hell on earth. It doesn't necessarily mean WMD... but the world will never be the same. And the ummah will pay the price.
This is what we need to be fighting against. This is why we need to get the word out. Before it comes to this. But people will continue to do what they're doing until they're shaken out of it by a catastrophic event. The true believers are doing everything they can to deliver this event.
If we can't effect some change and get people to focus on this situation it's going to be
"live free or die" meets "convert, conquer or kill" and when these things do meet it will be The End of the World as We Know It. A terrible price will be paid. Over and over again humanity shows itself to be stiff-necked, self-absorbed and short-sighted. May we be wise enough this time to stop it.
at July 10, 2006 3:41 PM
Its like the build up of Nazi germany except we are allowing the enemy build up its forces on our home soil.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 3:46 PM
I read something like this on a German web site, it is so true:
The cuckoo bird pushes the babies of other birds out of the nest.
The other bird "parents" work overtime and become exhausted in the efforts to feed and nurture the "imposter" babies in their nest, not even realizing that those imposter babies are much, much bigger than their own babies would have been!
In our case though, we help the cuckoos push our own babies out of our nests and willingly and knowingly feed and nurture the imposters instead of our own children!!!!
Posted by: AIG at July 10, 2006 4:18 PM
AIG,
Very good analogy. I say we push our imposters out of our nests.
Posted by: Elric66 at July 10, 2006 4:25 PM
You're right, jsla. They'll push and push and once they do the most horrific thing imaginable that they can do, the West will rise up, strike, and not care who gets in it's way.
Funny, but for as much supposed 'history' they know of ('cause their crap-tastic lands have been around SO damn long) they don't see the wreckage and destruction they cause, not the infidels. They strike two towers in NY and the US overthrows and occupies two of their countries. Whatever they do to us we can return 100 times worse.
Even better is the destruction they bring to each other -possibly far worse than we can imagine doing. They blow themselves up making bombs that kill only themselves and they walk into mosques blowing up nothing but other Muslims. It's been reported that more deaths of Muslims have come at the hands of other Muslims than the invading troops caused in both places. How stupid.
You may be right, too, A_Plague_on_Both_Houses. Islam has never created anything besides enemies, so they may be slowly creating their worst enemy yet. If they seek martyrdom, the US just might be the one to deliver it to them.
Posted by: MaxInfidel at July 10, 2006 6:30 PM
naseem represents a culture that has swum around in circles like a one legged duck for the best part of a millenium. It's rather comical tht she thinks the future belongs to her - although Pakistan is such a dreary dump of a country, you can understand that it's inhabitants go in for compensatory fantasies. The place can' make up it's smind whether to be merely a cess pit of corruption, an obscurantist and irrational theocracy or a full blown failed state. It spends no money at all on public education (letting the Saudis finance brainwashing madrassers in stead), wastes money making atom bombs and bleats about Western countries not being generous enough when it suffers from an earthquake. No wonder they want to take over the US - they've created such a junkyard of their own country.
Posted by: wallyUK at July 10, 2006 9:10 PM
Anyone brave enough to desecrate a Koran at a mosque has my admiration for his cajones if not his good sense.
It might be useful to remember that Robert and Hugh don't do such things and they reside in Secure Undisclosed Location because they have good sense.
Even Hugh's suggestion, while more sensible by a longshot, could turn ugly if implemented.
I won't bore you with a dramatic tale, but I have experience with sticking my chest out, shooting my mouth off, and exposing myself and my family to Moslem nut balls. I don't recommend it.
Remember, for most of us, there's nothing secure about our locations, whether undisclosed or not. Don't put yourself in danger.
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at July 11, 2006 2:16 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Just out to water the garden....Mashaallah....I cannot remember the last time I did that...well having time on my hands ...I'm doing things that I don't usually do.
It's a shame that Jsla brought the tone of the thread down to death & destruction....I don't know what it is that brings the infedel and the Kafur done to such lowly depths.
WallyUK...Pakistan is a dump in places ...bnut in a lot of others it's shining.
Haid...it is good advice given to the peoples who want to confront peace loving muslims/wuslims. Since most of the 9/11 externals came from Saudi....I recommend they take the protest outside the Saudi Embassy.
BELIEVE ME , taking on muslims is highly not recommended. When it comes for action time , there is no talking to be done, no sitting round the table crap.
Still, if you wish go ahead...I hope there are wuslims about that will keep the peace...also you should think that you are wasting police time and endangeing police.
Even they know that Islam is a religion of peace.
Posted by: Naseem at July 11, 2006 4:12 AM
Naseem: to paraphrase a great Jewish philosopher, Benedict Spinoza, peace isn't simply an absence of overt hostilities. It's a state of being free from fear and intimidation. The peace you advocate of submission to an xenophobic, mysocgenistic and homophobic creed is the peace of the grave.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 11, 2006 8:05 AM
"No wonder they want to take over the US - they've created such a junkyard of their own country."
-Posted by: wallyUK
Yep, that seems to be the way with Islam.
Wherever it goes, desolation is left in it's wake.
Islam, the abomination that brings desolation.
Like a collossus made of the flesh and blood of it's victims, constantly decomposing, it requires new death to build the rotting sinews for the next step.
That's why Islam withers when starved of new conquest as it is then forced to feed upon itself.
Posted by: Mike_W at July 11, 2006 9:09 AM
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