Last year they legalised 600.000 and 80.000 more are waiting to go to Europe. They´ve even planned to set off from Africa to the U.S...

Posted by: sugiero at July 13, 2006 6:50 AM

Tragic indeed.
There goes Spain again! We need another El Cid - not just in Spain, but everywhere!

I have heard that tourism in Islamic places e.g. Turkey, Lebanon and Bali etc is dropping.
Although Bali is mainly Hindu, it is the Indonesian business men who own heaps of the resorts.

Maybe we can get them in the hip-pocket nerve?
Money speaks volumes!

Posted by: Gramfan at July 13, 2006 7:44 AM

Look at those stats!

Spain is gone--just a matter of time.

Posted by: Always On Watch at July 13, 2006 8:01 AM

Spain is not gone. I live here and work in construction alongside many of the sub-Saharan African muslim immigrants. Their treatment is appalling - €30 a day and sleeping on the site is not at all uncommon. But I like them - they work, laugh, and most importantly neither do prayer breaks nor Friday afternoon off. They are just so chuffed to be in Europe and working that the idea of making demands and complaints has not occurred to them yet.

Spain also still has quite a conservative catholic identity despite the recent actions of the government. At the moment there is nothing of islam in the Spanish media when compared to the UK, Holland etc. When it does start to become a major issue I am confident that the catholics aren't going to take it lying down as their opposite numbers in the north have.

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 13, 2006 8:22 AM

Zapatero actually has quite a lot to be concerned about vis claims on "Al-Andaluse".

This is not to say that I think he's capable of connecting the dots and understanding that the Muslim Brotherhood's various branches in Egypt, "Palestine", Algeria, etc., are not deadly serious about opening another jihad front to reclaim Islam's western European beach head.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 13, 2006 8:27 AM

I meant to say -- despite what Bert says above about all things being peaceful and harmonious for now -- that Spaniards should be very, very concerned that the Madrid train bombings were but a taste of what might come.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 13, 2006 8:30 AM

We surrendered immediately and unconditionally after the train bombings, so until we upset them again I can't see us being targeted.

More concerning is either the break up of Spain as a nation - I'd expect problems with islamists in an independent Andalucia - or recent happenings in Morocco. The police there have arrested some 500 islamists in the last couple of months and the word is that the spiritual leader of the largest (and of course banned) islamist party has said that 2006 shall be the year the Moroccan monarchy falls.

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 13, 2006 9:47 AM

I agree with Bert. The core of the problem isn't even the sub-saharan immigrant, at least not initially. The worst problem is the penetration of north African islamists into the Spanish society.

From my experience, these first generation immigrants won't even get involved in violent crime (probably unlike their sons). They realize they are very fortunate to work in Europe, and they will do their best not to screw up their chances.

Like I said, the problem is the radicalized north Africans. Sub-saharans tend to be humble. North African Muslims are arrogant. Sandmonkey showed this clearly in a recent piece about the Egyptian parliament "reluctantly accepting" Danish aid "despite" the Mohammed cartoons.

Posted by: cruzado at July 13, 2006 10:12 AM

Yep, that's why I specified sub-Saharans.

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 13, 2006 10:20 AM

I'm sure that Zapatero will curb Spain's illegal immigration problem in the same way that Blair has managed to curb Britain's - i.e. ignore the problem until there's a million or more of them, and then start talking about an amnesty. So that way they all become 'legal' after all. QED.

Posted by: enemyofislam at July 13, 2006 12:06 PM

Bert-

So, you prefer to soft invasion over the hard?

But the final result is the same.

A knife at the neck is quieter than a gun at the head.

But you end up just as dead.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 13, 2006 1:38 PM

It all depends on whether the sub-saharan is Muslim or not. The sub-saharan Muslim Nigerians who routinely riot, mass-murder, arson and behead non-Muslims at the drop of a Koran are somehow better than North African Muslims...?

Posted by: Television at July 13, 2006 2:30 PM

Bert,
The situation you are describing is exactly like the east end of London 30 years ago. At some point the lone males will ship in their wives and children (on their money, they can obtain wives back home just by clicking their fingers) as well as any other dependents. The resultant population avalanche will be on a scale that will be wondrous to behold.

Posted by: wallyUK at July 13, 2006 2:33 PM

I forgot to mention that most of these wives will be 10, 20 even 30 years younger than their husbands and will be kept almost permanently pregnant. Their offspring will, of course, only marry people from the homeland which will help with the exponential increase in numbers.

Posted by: wallyUK at July 13, 2006 3:10 PM

But I like them - they work, laugh, and most importantly neither do prayer breaks nor Friday afternoon off. They are just so chuffed to be in Europe and working that the idea of making demands and complaints has not occurred to them yet.

Damn. After years of apparently needless consternation, I see it all clearly now: We're gonna be alright; everything's gonna be ok. The Moslems are alright.

610 * 623 * 732* 1066* 1215 * 1504 * 1526 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001

On the other hand...

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at July 13, 2006 10:23 PM

Here's a cost effective way to curb North African immigration - support these guy.

Posted by: Popovich at July 14, 2006 2:51 AM

For all the people taking me as naive and an islamophile, I'm not. My posts above were replying to the array of "Spain is gone" statements. I am well aware of what comes from continued muslim immigration, and am fully in favour of anything to put an end to it.

Two things will happen in the long run - some major terrorist attacks followed by yet another expulsion of the Moors, or the long slow and unstoppable democratic takeover which it seems impossible to do anything about, at least as long as the EU calls the shots.

Can you guess which option I'm rooting for?

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 14, 2006 7:22 AM

We surrendered immediately and unconditionally after the train bombings, so until we upset them again I can't see us being targeted.

[...]

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 13, 2006 09:47 AM

Uh, Bert, isn't that sort of what Israel did when they withdrew from Gaza last August, only to see Hamas use it as a base to fire even more rockets at Israel and burrow under the "apartheid wall" and attack a military post inside of Israel's 1948 borders?

For the time being, they may be appeased, but only for the time being.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 14, 2006 8:03 AM

Yes of course. But the difference is that Israel is target number one for Hamas, whereas Spain has now probably dropped out of the top five targets for Al Qaeda.

I'm not saying we're off the hook permenently, just that we're okay for the next few years - unless of course we upset 'em again.

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 14, 2006 9:11 AM