http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-fyst4-7w&mode=related&search=

Thanks for that Little Green Footballs patriot daughter

Posted by: Borg at September 7, 2006 8:25 AM

It's too bad that Ms. Ates is ending her legal career. Yet, to paint all Muslim women as victims is wrong. Many times and in many places, Muslim women are the victimizers, forcing female relatives to submit to twisted Islamic customs and teaching their sons to hate-filled jihad warriors.

Posted by: Mary Rose at September 7, 2006 8:56 AM

Borg, that was awesome--I'm still laughing. Good to see VW has some balls.

Posted by: Know Your Enemy at September 7, 2006 10:01 AM

Europeans are not very good at listening to, or protecting, the few women in their midst who have been born into Islam but dare to challenge the cult: Norway's Samira Munir is dead, the Dutch drove out Ayaan Hirsi Ali, now Seyran Ates is closing her practice and going underground...

And don't even ask the "where are the feminists?"-question. Wanna know where they are? They're either too busy demonstrating against US and Israeli militarism (you know, "We are all Hizbollah now") or sitting at "postcolonialist and queer studies" (previously women's studies) departments analysing Western imperialist and racist patriarchy.

Forced marriages? Honor killings? Who cares? Just another Islamophobic construction, isn't it?

Posted by: rahel at September 7, 2006 10:42 AM

From the original article:

"Police denied that they had been approached by Miss Ates for protection."

And that, if asked, they would give her any.

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at September 7, 2006 12:10 PM

Let her emmigrate to the U.S. Germany's loss will be our gain and Ayaan Hirsi Ali can use the company.

Posted by: jay at September 7, 2006 12:26 PM

Islam's apostates and renegade women are the front line commandos in this war. No one is in greater danger. And all the time they have to watch for the knife in the back from the Western culture who's values they are defending.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at September 7, 2006 1:09 PM

Isn't private security an option? Maybe it's too expensive?

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at September 7, 2006 1:46 PM

"Islam's apostates and renegade women are the front line commandos in this war"

Precisely.

Moreover, Moslem women in general are a potential Trojan horse for Islam itself. It is they who are subjugated by this barbaric belief system. It is they who have the most to gain by its complete reform or overthrow. It is they who most directly influence the next generation. Women who come to understand the dignity of free will can pass this on to their offspring, helping to break the cycle of inshallah fatalism that is one of the dominant traits of Islam and consequently demonstrate the emptiness and desolation of this creed.

Every effort must be made to protect women like Seyran Ates and to promote their work.

Posted by: Chatillon at September 7, 2006 2:30 PM

From what I've gathered reading German newspapers on the net, Seyran Ates’ withdrawal from practising law has been
met with indifference.

Still in Germany, a action taken by Hans-Peter Raddatz, and backed by the Verfassungsschutz - homeland security - against Yavuz Ozoguz, moderator of Muslimmarkt, the largest Muslim portal in Germany with an average of 60K visitors a week was thrown out by a regional court. In 2005 it published a curse, disguised as a prayer, against HPR which he felt constituted a call to murder against him. This is the text of the 'prayer':

If this is Islam, as Herr Raddatz constantly maintains, then may the almighty creator annihilate all members of this religion.
And if Herr Raddatz is a hate preacher and a liar, then may the almighty creator punish him for his crimes, together with
all those, who in spite of being made aware of his widely-exposed lies, persist in believing them.

Several other islamic experts agreed with Dr Raddatz. Prof. Ursula Spuler-Stegma:"This is clearly a threat to murder packaged in the form of a prayer, a so-called prayer, but which in reality has a curse behind it", and Prof Tilman Nagel, University of Goettingen:"The prayer shows contempt for the state monopoly on the use of force and for
religious freedom by calling on Muslims to take the law into their own hands and by naming the target of the 'punishment'.

Their expert opinions were not allowed by the court, however, one of the reasons given was that they couldn't be relied upon to be neutral.

State prosecutors (Verfassungsschuetzer) ranked the curse on the internet portal for Muslims as a license to kill, but German judges didn't even punish it as an insult, said a state prosecutor, "particularly at a time when diverse forms of authorial and artistic freedom in Europe is perceived by Muslims as blasphemy and Kulturkampf. Such verbal ad personam attacks are irresposible and dangerous. The critic of Islam will not only be intimidated, the personified enemy would beome an object of punishment, which consequences could not be foreseen. Had the formulators of the 'prayer' come from someone from a European culture or similar, this internet curse would not be a problem. Active islamists, however, understand this as a 'call'.

Another expert, Herbert Handolin Mueller, said: "Ozoguz's language gives him away. He used the same vocabulary ('Liar 'Criminal') that was used in the Salman Rushdie death-fatwa and for the murder of Theo Van Gogh. Furthermore, the Caliph of Cologne didn't have to expressly call for the assassination of his rival, Dr. Sofi. An ardent appeal to the conscience and sense of duty of the Muslims is sufficient to constitute a call to murder."

Clearly, the reminder of a historical model is enough to inspire the deed. Muslims frequently see themselves as instruments of Allah and are conscientious about carrying out his will, as in Koran 8:17: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower. (M. Pickthall)

The court refused to commence proceedings against Ozoguz. The judges maintained that the prayer was not an incitement to kill HPR, although, of course, it mentions punishment, this should be undertaken by God in the next world. The judges did not see this as an appeal to other Muslims to commit a crime. And after all, HPR has himself frequently been a harsh critic of Islam.

The judges in their findings said it was merely a case of ' Mubahala' - a curse formula which is widely used in the arabic-islamic world to strengthen one's own position, to enhance one's credibility and to lend weight to one's stance. Such a curse implies the wish that those who are in the wrong be cursed with God's punishment.

In this finding, the court is obviously going along with Ozoguz's defence, he calls it the 'peaceful' Mubahala principle. It is based on by this verse in the Koran:
3:61. If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of God on those who lie!" For the event that inspired this verse see: http://www.batkhela.com/islam/story2.shtml

Ozoguz laid out this defence on the forum himself and distanced himself from any call to murder. Interestingly, a few days after the threat with Dr Raddatz's name was posted, it was changed to read 'If XXX etc.' (Dr Raddatz himself felt this intensified the threat:" Of course anyone who read the first call knows who it's directed at. In fact this amendment is an intensification, a confirmation") Later, in the same posting where he discussed mubahala, Ozoguz said he had deleted the entire threat, not because he felt it was an incitement to murder, but because it had been suggested to him that an 'Islam hater' could carry out the threat and pin it on the Muslims!

Dr Raddatz is worried not just for himself but for his family also. It is the case that if the killers cannot get to their target they will go for the next closest person.
He is angry with the court: "It seems the judges are saying, it's my own fault."
The author who often complains of a pro-islam cartel in political and social circles and polemicizes on 'Islam-enablers' will not allow himself to be intimidated. In his most recent book he says that the Koran contains an instruction manual for mass murder. He now has personal protection and must inform the police when he travels.

He says that, strangely, since the internet threat he has received no further death threats. He also had several before the internet one.

Ozaguz himself is no stranger to the German security apparatus. He regards Hamas and Hizbollah as charities, suicide bombers are resistence fighters and he denies the Holocaust. Theo Van Gogh was a criminal, Germany is on the way to being a godless society, and a muslim theocracy would be preferable.

Before this latest episode, he was cited for incitement (Volksverhetzung) and was fined 1000 Euro. He told the court he would obey the law from then on and they believed him.

He says he has received 200 death threats since the Raddatz episode and has given up his job in Bremen University.

The 'XXX' threat is still up, on http://f25.parsimony.net/cgi-bin/topic-flat.cgi?Nummer=63498&Phase=Phase1&ThreadNummer=36278

Posted by: Silvester at September 7, 2006 2:30 PM

I realised that muslim women are part of the problem not part of the solution.

I have no empathy left for them, maybe after decades of honor killing, forced marriages, slavery and abuse in western land (because in their own land it's the normal practice) they will eventually find out themselves that there's something wrong.

We have to stop cleaning their shits. Those people know NO gratitude whatsoever, so it's all wasted time.

Posted by: FedUp at September 7, 2006 4:16 PM

What happened to Ms. Ates will happen to others if people in the rest of the world do nothing to stop evil from taking over. Perhaps a clash of civilizations is what is needed to prevent such tragedies from being repeated.

It is time that all decent people tell the Islamists, "We are not going to take it anymore!'

Posted by: Christian at September 7, 2006 10:07 PM

Chatillion and friends. How little do you understand Muslim women, for that matter you seem not to understand women at all.

Women are MORE conservative than men, more adamant and defensive of any ideology into which they have been born or brainwashed.

The most female hating people I know are women..take Ann Coulter for instance, you obviously don't watch Arab and Iranian News, but I do and it is women who are the most fanatic, proclaiming they don't care about health or food but only victory for Allah, it is women who are proud to raise their boys to be suicide bombers.. in Saudi Arabia it is women who defend the clerical establishment, Shari'a and social order..more so than men.. because women believe that they find safety and security in the status quo, whatever that may be.

And in the U.S. it is actually women who are the most virulent and obnoxious "conservatives", it is women who are the most vocifeous "anti feminists", anti choice, etc.. like the (falsely named) Independent Women's Council.

Posted by: Nariz at September 7, 2006 10:48 PM

Nariz:

And whence came Seyran Ates? And who was she counseling in what community? Likewise, what community did Ayaan Hirsin Ali come from? Why did she leave that community and how was that managed? And Irshad Manji? And don't forget the Homa Arjoman, refugee from Iran, and others like her who participated in resisting institution of Shariah courts in Ontario.

The world isn't totally devoid of examples of Moslem women taking risks for themselves and others, confronting them either. If women are capable of bigotry, they are capable of open-mindedness too. If they are capable of repressing their own children, they are capable great acts of sacrifice to promote a better life for them as well.

Do you want to ignore this? Cynicism is not particularly helpful. I'd watch less TV if I were you.

Posted by: Chatillon at September 8, 2006 4:22 PM

"confronting them either." should read "confronting injustices transplanted to the West."

Posted by: Chatillon at September 8, 2006 4:29 PM

Those who refused to protect her are as guilty as the killers.

Posted by: IceDragon at September 9, 2006 11:27 AM