Just when you thought you had seen the worst of dhimmi lunacy. I somehow wish for sharia fascism to be introduced in at least one European country - although not Denmark - in the hope that it will wake up the indigenous populations and oust madmen like this "Donnerwetter" creep.

Posted by: anti-uffe at September 13, 2006 9:43 AM

What if two-thirds of the Dutch population decided that all Muslims must be sent to death camps for execution along with anyone who collaborates with them? Would the Justice Minister be willing to go along with this?

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at September 13, 2006 10:09 AM

Did I just read what I thought I read....

It's about as pathetic as you can get, PC and "multi-culturalism" run to its insane and ultimate conclusion.

"given the rotten state of that culture in the Netherlands, maybe he is right"

It doesn't sound like the Dutch are ready to defend their secular, ultra-liberal, anti-Christian "enlightened" culture. Certianly it isn't worth fighting or dying for.

I guess that's why they are rolling over and playing dead instead of defending it from islam....

Keep voting in ultra-liberal politicians, keep calling President Bush the "terrorist", keep being anti-Isreal, keep living that little bubble you call an enlightened culture until it's to late....

Wake up... reclaim your Christian roots and culture.... reclaim your democratic values.... reclaim you sanity...

Posted by: adobe at September 13, 2006 10:15 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Well it isn't everyday that your predictions come true. I have said 2 years ago that democracy will be used to destroy or replace democracy.

Inshallah we shall see an example of this in the modern world ...and a template for the formation of Eurabia.

It will be interesting to see that this will happen in our lifetime...truly Allah has blessed you all.

The EU is a perfect vehicle for this. Some countries within the EU will "fall" to sharia. The EU shape will be lopsided for a bit until more and more countries "fall".

I predict that this will then become a domino effect and inshalla Eurabia will be a reality.

I think this day and viewpoint marks peoples with a vision of reality...i.e. you can talk about no sharia until the cows come home...BUT it is the reality on the ground that is important.

Please celebrate today by passing out sweets in the street...and welcome to Eurabia.

Posted by: Naseem at September 13, 2006 10:21 AM

The majority is always right. If the majority want to run naked in the street, then thats what they should do. JCS above makes a good point...the justice minister is an idiot.

Posted by: duh_swami at September 13, 2006 10:23 AM

Well, there you have it, The Netherlands will probably be one of the first European countries to fall to Sharia, if not the first if that kind of dhimmitude is what passes for public policy there.

I think it's a race between Sweden and the Netherlands with France not far behind in the race to Sharia. Maybe we should do something very un-Islamic and take bets on who goes first. My money is on the Islamic Republic Of Holland.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at September 13, 2006 10:28 AM

Just made room on the living-room wall for "A Woman In Blue Reading a Letter."

It's going to be quite a headache. Packing up the entire contents of the Rijksmuseum and the Mauritshuis -- no, maybe some Ruisdaels will pass the no-life test -- not to mention moving, the way an entire Chinese house was moved to the Peabody-Essex Museum in Salem, Massachusetts -- Rembrandt's House, and Leeuwenhoek's microscope, and Spinoza's books, and Anne Frank's hiding-place, just for the remaining Dutch who, having fled, are now huddled masses, yearning to be free, starting over again, in the United States and Canada. They can call their city something like -- oh, what do you think of Nieuw Amsterdam?

That is one possibility.

There is another.

Posted by: Hugh at September 13, 2006 10:49 AM

I know how you feel but it is just not going to happen here. The Dutch are just not that F##king stupid. I have lived here for 20 years and I have notice a sea change in the last few years, it is difficult to put ones finger on it but it has a lot to do with the feeling of cynisim you feel when talking to the indiginous Dutch. Do not take any notice of Donner and the CDA check out Wilgers Party, that will give you a better indication of how the the Dutch really feel. This man is fishing this man is launching a ballon to see which way the political wind is blowing.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at September 13, 2006 11:15 AM

Can you imagine if Attorney General Gonsalez of the United States made the same comments. This after he was sworn to uphold the Contitution of the United States.

Was Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner required to take an oath to his office to defend the laws of his country or is that just an ignored formality?

The mere suggestion of allowing a vote for such insanity is traiterous at best to the country that he, and his political allies should be sworn to defend.

George traiterous Galloway must be smiling at such a thing occuring in Netherlands.

Posted by: Mackie at September 13, 2006 11:22 AM

Hmmmm...so if sharia is allowed by majority, the crime rate against women will go dramatically up, there will be more handless and footless people, more hangings in the streets, more mosques for sure, slums everywhere, no more agriculture, art, beauty...it will become just like the rest of the middle east. A sewer, cesspool and a blight on civilization. So..is this minister a muslim?

Posted by: freewoman at September 13, 2006 11:29 AM

Moslems refusing to shake hands with others is simply a matter of bad manners, arrogant and disagreeable but tolerable. However, introduction of Shariah into any Western domain, even democratically introduced Shariah? What does this portend for the West? That's obvious. Look to the Middle East and North Africa which were both once unencumbered with Islam, with rich cultural and philosphic traditions. But they both fell to the arguments of jihad.

But if democratically introduced, can Shariah be democratically rescinded? Or does establishment of Shariah, in whole or in part, forever make the land wholly or partly one with dar al Islam? Have these politicians considered these matters? Has the general population? Have they considered that the success of jihad may depend as much upon the serpent's tongue as it does upon its bite?

On the other hand, how big a majority would be required to change immigration policies? Or what level of public concern is required to get the matter of immigration policies debated in Western legislatures? Democracy requires the participation and consent of the governed. Concerned people of the West need to remember this, speaking up loud and clear to their elected representatives. Making sure that these matters are on the front burners of public debate.

Posted by: Chatillon at September 13, 2006 11:30 AM

Politicians can say what they want, but the people will not stand for it. Up to 5 years ago, wisdom handed down from on high instructed passengers on a hijacked aircraft not to interfere - that the authorities should handle everything. The passengers on Flight 93 would have none of it. So too the Dutch people will not let their leaders dictate that this is the direction their country should take.

Posted by: Jan III Sobieski at September 13, 2006 11:32 AM

The very idea that mere head-counting should be allowed to determine whether the country, people, and civilization of Holland should live or slowly be put to death sickens. But Piet Hein Donner apparently believes that numbers are everything; that numbers, voting, is what "democracy" is all about. In this respect he has some analogues -- such as President Bush -- who keep prating about "democracy" and "freedom" in Iraq and "in the Middle East" without having any very good idea of what democracy, in the Western sense, is or should be.

But in the case of Holland and the rest of Western Europe, and indeed in the case of other threatened countries, such as Israel, only those should be considered citizens who fully accept the political, legal, and moral institutions and foundations of the country. Naturalization, citizenship, is much more than being in a certain place for a certain time and declaring, easily, phonily, on this or that oath. It has to be more, for now we understand that there is one major belief-system whose adherents do not, even when they leave countries suffused with such a belief-system, drop it, for they fail to recognize the connection between the unpleassant or even hideous state of the countries from which they come (Iraq or Egypt, Saudi Arabia or Iran, Somalia or Morocco or Algeria) can be explained as arising out of that same belief-system. Unlike refugees who fled the Nazis and the Communists, and the countries they controlled, these people who in essence flee the Muslim world, nonetheless do not denounce that world and its belief-system, but smuggle into their mental baggage, and remain firmly committed to, the very thing that they should have been eager, and certainly willing, to drop.

It is ludicrous to ask the peoples of the Western world to admit into their midst, and welcome, and supply with every benefit that the Infidel lands now offer, and even encourage participation in the "system" -- that is, in politics -- which participation will only, can only, conceivably be exploited by Muslims to further the case and cause of Islam.

But Islam teaches that the source of a government's legitimacy lies only in its adherence to Islam, and to the final authority, the Holy Law of Islam or Shari'a. Some countries attempt to hew closely to it -- Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan. Others less closely follow it -- Egypt, for example, which claims absurdly to have a "secular" civil code -- but a whole series of cases involving Copots shows that to be untrue.

How can those who claim that they believe firmly in a belief-system that is both religion and politics, that offers a Total Regulation of Life and a Complete Explanation of the Universe, and that in every way flatly contradicts not only the very ideas upon which democratic government has been developed, but also flatly contradict the rights that protect individuals, for in Islam everything is collective, everything is about the Umma al-Islamiyya, and the individual does not matter. The scholar Reza Afshari had shown -- and so have others -- the contradictions between Islam and the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That is why no Muslim state (save for Iran under the Shah) ever ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, all of them instead coming up with a "Muslim" version that completely excludes all the most important rights of individuals, such as free exercise of religion, equal treatment of sects, full legal equality for women, freedom of speech, and so on. None of it is, and none of it can be, in Islam.

The comment by Piet Hein Donner, of the Christian Democratic Party, should be taken to heart. And citizenship should not be granted to, nor contiinue to be possessed by, anyone who cannot wholehearedly and genuinely subscribe to the principles on which democratic government redsts, and on the individual rights, those which are now taken for granted all over the advanced democracies of the West.

And what if a Muslim swears he is a good Muslim but one understands, one realizes, one discovers from his comments, that he does not believe any of those things which contradcit Islam? Do we nonetheless award him citizenship, so that he may vote, may agitate, may affect by sheer swelling of numbers the behavbior of Infidels, already fairly fearful and willing to appeasse?

No. We do not.

We do not because our goal is to preserve ourselves, and our ways -- and not on the basis of some abstract piety ("all people have a right to be believed", "it wouldn';t be right not to believe a Muslim who swore he was 'a good American'" and insistences at that level) or Idol of the Age, to flippantly surrender an entire civiilizational legacy.

Piet Hein Donner should go. Everyone who thinks like him, who approves of him, who is not appalled by him, should go. Somewhere, anywhere -- but not in a position where he is supposed to protect, and instruct, others.

Posted by: Hugh at September 13, 2006 11:33 AM

Naseem:
Please celebrate today by passing out sweets in the street...and welcome to Eurabia.

I didn't like modern civilization anyway. I don't mind living without computers, antibiotics, global communication, music, movies, hobbies, human rights, civil rights, religious freedom... yeah, to hell with all that, I want to live in a 7th century wasteland where I can beat up and rape some whores (aka women), hunt infidels for sport and praise Allah (penis upon him).

Of course you're asking: why would we suddenly lose computers and antibiotics? Well, who is going to design and manufacture them when the infidels are gone, schools no longer teach anything of value, freedom of inquiry is outlawed and scientific thinking is demonized? Where will you get your AK-47s, RPGs, cell phones, cars and Google searches when there are no longer any infidels around to make them for you? I guess you'll just be rotting in your mental prison and wondering why the sun keeps going up and down.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at September 13, 2006 11:36 AM

"Going Dutch" was posted here at the beginning of July. That is not long ago, but nonetheless it may be worth reposting:

"The Dutch government has decided that immigrants, by which is meant mainly Muslim immigrants, should have made available to them government-sponsored courses in the Dutch language, Dutch history, Dutch culture. And with those courses on offer, there will be new requirements. Immigrants will be required, within a very generous five years, to demonstrate a minimal knowledge of that language, that history, that culture. It is an act born of hope and despair. The hope is that these Muslim immigrants will, in learning these subjects, not simply be thereby better able to manipulate Dutch infidels, to make demands and to subvert the laws, customs, understandings of local Infidels using tools provided by those same Infidels, but will, instead, come to appreciate that Dutch society, (as Ayaan Hirsi Ali so clearly did).

Then, instead of wishing to Islamize the locals or to have Islam dominate the Dutch, will themselves be in fact so transformed by this new knowledge, having acquired a knowledge of, and therefore deep appreciation for, Dutch freedoms, Dutch individualism, Dutch laws and understandings, Dutch thought and Dutch art, that they will not only profess loyalty to the Netherlands, but when they profess it, mean it.

To date Muslims in Holland, as elsewhere in Western Europe, have not demonstrated such loyalty or a desire to integrate through the acceptance of certain basic understandings. Instead, the younger generations of Muslim immigrants seem filled with fervor that increases rather than diminishes, and have created a situation that is unpleasant, expensive, and dangerous for Infidels in all of the countries of what Muslims call Dar al-Harb (the Domain of War) or the Bilad al-kufr (the Land of Infidelity, or Lands of the Infidels). They are taught to despise Infidels, to express hostility toward them, even at times to “cut off the heads” of the Unbelievers. This kind of sentiment, repeated so often in the Qur’an and the Hadith, has its effect.

The despair of the Dutch government is shared by the governments of other Infidel countries in Western Europe. They do not know quite what to do. Like other Western governments, that of the Netherlands appears to believe that it simply has no choice, but cannot expel (Why not? On what peculiar theory?) those who remain adherents of a belief-system that uncompromisingly divides the world between Believers and Infidels, and tells Believers that it is their duty to strive for the day when all parts of the world have removed all obstacles to the spread and dominance of Islam, so that the entire world will become part of Dar al-Islam. And the despair is felt most by those who have taken the time to thoroughly investigate the nature of Islam, not only the contents of Qur’an and Hadith, not only the example of Muhammad and the implications for Infidels of that example, but also the history, over the past 1350 years, of Muslim Jihad-conquest, and the Muslim subjugation of many different non-Muslim peoples. All of those non-Muslim peoples suffered under Muslim rule in ways that one would, if one did not know about Islam, and the conception of the “tolerated” non-Muslim, the dhimmi, and his legal status, regard as amazingly, rather than unsurprisingly, similar.

Whether they belong to the party of those Infidels who think the truth about the belief-system of Islam should be stated, or to the party of those who think one should avoid stating the truth for fear of making that grim truth even truer, Europeans recognize that the belief-system of the millions of Muslims permitted into their midst poses an unprecedented and unique problem. For Islam is not quite like any other undeclared mental baggage brought by any other kind of immigrant. Dimly, or brightly, Europeans are beginning to understand this business of a strict division in the world between Believer and Unbeliever, Muslim and Infidel. Muslims are taught this. It is taken to heart and is not theoretical. It is vividly alive for most of the world’s Muslims, no matter where they may be. The Qur’an instructs them “not to take Jews or Christians as friends, for they are friends only with each other.” Muslims are taught never to participate in, nor to recognize, the religious holidays of others. They are told to obey only those Infidel laws, in the Infidel countries they happen to live in, that Muslim scholars tell them do not conflict with Islam. They are taught that, as always, their sole loyalty must be to the Umma, the Community of Believers. Islam is a collective faith; it has no time for individualism or the individual. Muslims determined to carry on campaigns of Da’wa among vulnerable and carefully targeted groups of Infidels, ordinarily the psychically or economically marginal, are not trying to save souls so much as they are attempting to gather recruits for the army of Islam. And once recruited, those new soldiers are never allowed to leave Islam – or if they try to, they will be punished as deserters.

Muslims are taught that they are the best of people; that non-Muslims ideally should be subjugated to them; that the lands of the world’s peoples belong to Allah and to the Believers, and that in the end the entire world will, in fact, belong to them. They are taught to regard with contempt non-Believers, and the legal status of “dhimmi” that is imposed on non-Muslims (should they manage to be considered as “protected peoples”—which is only guaranteed to Christians and Jews as “ahl al-kitab” or “People of the Book”) is so onerous that over time many, to escape its burden, converted to Islam.

Holland needs to toughen its test for those wishing to become citizens of Holland. It should not be some multiple-choice farce, but so constructed as to constitute a serious inquiry into the mental makeup of the takeover. To halt the tide of Muslim immigration that is now flooding not only low-lying Holland, but all member states of the European Community, more than a finger in the crumbling polder-dike of present immigration laws will be needed. The testing of would-be immigrants for Holland should make them no longer regard the country they have landed in as just one more part of the Bilad al-kufr, the Land of Infidelity or of the Infidels, an incidental variant on the theme of the Kuffar. Those in England must learn all about England, those in France all about France, and those in Holland, all about Holland.

An immigrant must want to come to the Netherlands, for more than the free medical care, free education, free or subsidized housing and generous living allowances that Muslims all over Europe have become masters at exploiting beyond anything the creators of these welfare states ever contemplated. He must not merely be seeking an initial foothold to which he can be admitted, so that subsequently all of Europe will be open to him – to find the best way to be supported, and to work to undermine the very peoples and societies whose generosity he is exploiting for aims that those peoples and societies are only now beginning to comprehend.

It is in reality a great privilege for someone from the world of Islam to come to a Western country. The Islamic world denies many forms of artistic expression, discourages at every step free and skeptical inquiry by the Believers, limits the freedoms of women, and encourages Believers to treat non-Muslims under Muslim rule at best as “dhimmis” -- that is, those non-Muslims subject to carefully constructed legal system whereby all kinds of disabilities are inflicted on them, the sum of which is a status of humiliation, degradation, and permanent physical insecurity. Mere geographic presence in Holland does not make one Dutch, and it certainly does not allow one to both inherit the legacy of a thousand years or more of Dutch history, and then to attempt to change, to mutilate, that very legacy, as one inferior to the only legacy that counts: that of Islam.

The government of the Netherlands might wish to consider suggestions from outside.
As a well-wisher, who prefers to keep Miep Gies in mind, or the retiring Professor van der Horst, rather than Menten or the wife of Wim Duisenberg, I have prepared a test that might fit the bill.

Here it is:

1) List five achievements of the Dutch East India Company from the time of its founding in 1602.

2) In appraising Dutch rule in the East Indies during the period 1880-1940, what acts of the Dutch were most deserving of praise, and what most deserving of blame?

3) When Jews expelled from Spain came to Amsterdam after 1492, many came and settled in Amsterdam. Why were they made welcome? How did this minority, quite foreign in many ways to the Dutch in language and culture, contribute in succeeding centuries to Dutch life? If you wish, you may concentrate on the figure of Spinoza and his role in the Enlightenment.

4) Who was Anne Frank? Why is the house in which she and others hid during World War II visited by people from all over the world? What is the historical significance of Anne Frank?

5) Who was Menten, and what is his historical significance?

6) This question counts for one-third of the total grade on the entire examination, so think carefully about its full significance before answering. Discuss three of the ten paintings listed below. Choose the painting that you find most appealing and the one you find least appealing and discuss your reasons for those choices:

a) Jan Vermeer's Woman With a Turban
b) Rembrandt's The Jewish Bride
c) Lucas van Leyden, The Last Judgment
d) Gerrit Dou, Young Woman Dressing
e) Henrick Avercamp, Winter Scene on a Canal
f) Geertgen tot Sint jans, The Assumption of the Virgin
g) Bosch, The Garden of Earthly Delights OR The Marriage Feast at Cana
h) Frans Hals, The Merry Drinker
i) Vincent van Gogh, Self-Portrait

7) Describe the part of the terraqueous globe most closely associated with each of the following:

a) Henry Hudson
b) Abel Jansz Tasman
c) Willem Barents

8) Describe briefly the significance of any three of the buildings listed below:

a) Pieterskerk in Utrecht
b) Grote Kerk in Breda
c) Mauritshuis in The Hague
d) Rembrandtshuis in Amsterdam
e) Erasmushuis in Rotterdam
f) Portuguese Synagogue in Amsterdam
g) Beguin Convent in Amsterdam

9) Among the famous foreigners who came to Holland seeking refuge were John Locke, Descartes, and Pierre Bayle. Choose any one of the three, discuss his significance, and explain why that person sought such refuge, and whether he found in Holland what he sought.

10) What was the effect on Holland of:

a) The Treaty of Utrecht
b) The Peace of Munster
c) The Treaty of Breda
c) The Maastricht Treaty

That's ten; there are two score more. Ten of those questions will be devoted to short but representative passages from Dutch intellectual history. The original Latin of some of the writers chosen – Erasmus, Grotius, Spinoza – will have been translated into Dutch. Ten more questions will be devoted to Dutch literature, and will range chronologically from Jacob Cats to Cees Nooteboom and Harry Mulisch. And a final twenty will be devoted to the most important text in Dutch history, the one which informs so much of its artistic and philosophical legacy. That text, or those texts, consist of the Old and New Testaments. Familiarity with the Bible stories without which no one can enter, say, the Rijksmuseum and comprehend much of its contents, or without which so much of Dutch literature and history cannot be comprehended, will be essential for all those who will wish to partake of the civilizational legacy which the Dutch are generously inviting non-Dutch to share.

Extra credit? Well, we’ll give that a little thought. Possibly a paper, written outside of the examination room, on Pieter Geyl’s essays on historiography, or a paper on Huizinga’s “Homo ludens.” Yes, an essay on the spirit of “Homo ludens” will do nicely.

It won’t be an easy examination. But it shouldn’t be. Think of all the people who labored and invented and painted and wrote political tracts or a tractatus theologicus, and established joint-stock companies, and went exploring in distant lands austral and septentrional, from Van Dieman’s Land to Hudson’s Bayand even went to war from time to time, all of which went into making the Dutch the Dutch.

Standards will be high. The task of reading and judging examination answers should come to be regarded as among the most solemn duties for the citizens of Holland – that is, the indigenous Infidels who wish to keep Holland Holland. That is as it should be. No one has a right to complain, least of all those who come from societies far more violent, primitive, and collectivist than that offered to them, practically on a platter, by the people of The Netherlands, whose country it is. Obtaining Dutch citizenship, after all, is a very high privilege indeed. It can, and should, be made available only to the deserving – the deserving few."

[Posted by Hugh at July 1, 2006 01:53 PM | Print this entry]

Posted by: Hugh at September 13, 2006 11:36 AM

What if 51% of the Dutch, right now, wish to end all Muslim immigration, wish to extend citizenship only to those who can make a clear and coherent case for the principles of the Dutch Republic, and indicate their full, heartfelt, and permanent assent to it, and wish, finally, to in all other cases expel those who necessarily contribute, because of their beliefs, their attitudes, the atmospherics in which their families and neighborhoods and societies are suffused, to creating, for the indigenous Dutch, a situation that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous, than it would otherwise be.

Google, for more, "Benes Decree" and "Posted by Hugh." See what you think of Masaryk, and Benes, and all the Czechs who supported them in 1946, and in 1956, and in 1966, and today.

Posted by: Hugh at September 13, 2006 11:40 AM

The moonbats in the Democratic Party wouldn't have any problem with Sharia being introduced fully in the United States tomorrow, if they got enough justices in the Supreme Court to say that it was okay. A one vote majority would be enough for them. Put anything to a vote, and it's good enough for them.

Democracy is one step away from anarchy.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at September 13, 2006 11:41 AM

I can see history repeating itself again. Remember that great Byzantine Empire? It does not exist today because it was gobbled up, that is, consumed by the Islamic wave of conquest and destruction. Because of their stupidity, indecision, duplicity they were gradually conquered bit by bit until the fall of Constantinople. Those Byzantines probably thought that Constantinople would be the everlasting bastion standing mightily against the muslims. Well even Constantinople was consumed. And that was the end of that empire. Completely taken over by the muslims. I see the same fate for Europe if the present course is continued. It could be that Europe lose the continent little by little to the muslims. And the Europeans will feel that they can have one last bastion to stand against the onslaught. Maybe it could be one remaining European country that is completely surrounded by Islamic European nations. Then these Europeans may appeal to the new Crusaders, the Americans, to come and save them. History may repeat itself by seeing this New Crusader Army come and sack the remnants of Europe and take away all the remaining riches, arts, great works, treasures. America would see the opportunity to save the relics and treasures of the once great nations by taking them back to America. Any Europeans not willing to fight in that last stand to defend their land will escape with their life to America. But the ultimate fate is abandonment of Europe to the Muslims. Isn't that how the history of the Byzantine Empire went? It sure looks like it can happen again.

Posted by: norman at September 13, 2006 12:03 PM

It doesn't sound like the Dutch are ready to defend their secular, ultra-liberal, anti-Christian "enlightened" culture. Certianly it isn't worth fighting or dying for.

Freedom is always worth fighting for, even the inalienable right to be a liberal dumbass (and I pre-emptively apologize my redundancy here).

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

Question is, will we be accorded the freedom to stop this lunacy.

I’ve been feeding some Islamic scriptures and manifestos (as if there’s a difference between the two) to a housewife I know in the Biblical sense. She showed some of the paper to her sun, a construction worker. After about 15 minutes of his reading, she asks, “What are we gonna do?” The boy answered, “Simple, send ‘em all back to the hell-holes they came from.”

Setting humor aside, that is the only solution, cuz de-Islamicizing these nut-bags is impossible.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 13, 2006 12:12 PM

Pass out sweets?

It's odd, of course, to think that Naseem's reaction to this news is the same as the response in the islamic world to the suicide attacks on the Twin Towers.

Now, why would that be?

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at September 13, 2006 12:24 PM

You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!

Posted by: dragonfly11 at September 13, 2006 12:28 PM

Look what has happened to India, in the 50+ years of freedom. The greatest tragedy was to let Muslims live in India, after the country was partitioned.

Now, India is the second largest Muslim nation on the planet. India enforces Sharia for Muslims. Muslims in India are not governed by the Indian Civil Code.

Listen to the Dutch Minister now, and you will see the same repeating in Netherlands. The mistake India has done was to by follow the "Mahatma"... "Mahatma" Gandhi screwed India, by allowing all Muslims to remain in India, by replacing Indian National Anthem that was Politically Correct to Muslims, by including "Green" color in the national flag and so on....

The pattern of the "Islam" Virus is the same everywhere ...

Posted by: The Hindu Infidel at September 13, 2006 12:37 PM

How long did the Nazi/Islamists have the Netherlands during WWII? It looks like they are going to get it back again and keep it this time.

With out firing a shot.

A question for their Justice Minister. Doesn't your constitution have a higher moral code that would restrict the undermining of your constitution? If the old "all we need is 2/3rds" addage applies then you are a nation ran by the perceptions of 2/3rds of the people. For instance if 2/3rds of the people vote that muder is legal, then "well we got 2/3rds" so it is legal. There is no boundaries of what "2/3rds" of the people choose they want. And with Sharia murder will be legal.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at September 13, 2006 12:43 PM

I think it's a race between Sweden and the Netherlands with France not far behind in the race to Sharia.

Please, don't disrespect Belgium here.

Think about it: The folk who invented les frites down in Wallonie always strive to keep up with their counterparts in la belle France; and the Felmish up in Flanders must be burning with jealousy at the great strides being made by their cousins just across their northern border.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

Ken Livingstone and Galloway must be quite frustrated. What with all the English cultural and political tradition, they won't be able to attain Sharia until the Moslems paddle across the Channel.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

And what about Spain? Never discount experience. Ever.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 13, 2006 12:54 PM

William of Orange must be turning in his grave. He fought off the death sentence served on the entire Dutch population by the Spanish inquisition, and attempted by Phillip II of Spain. If this is what Holland is coming to, what was wrong with Phillip's idea either?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 13, 2006 1:03 PM

Welcome to Naseem World:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/3.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/5.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/8.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/9.htm

What a wonderful place Eurabia will be...

Posted by: Mike at September 13, 2006 1:07 PM

Well, one or two countries are going to have to 'go dark' or a big bomb is going to have to kill a million or so people to get this War framed in the proper terms. I don't think we're going to get it until a country falls. We never did before, did we?

I'd actually rather see Sweden or France fall instead of the Netherlands, but it's not up to me. It's up to the Dutch, Swedes and French.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at September 13, 2006 1:14 PM

And the day sharia is implemented, this obsequious muslim butt-kisser will be on the first boat of out the Netherland.

Posted by: 3812Michelle at September 13, 2006 1:17 PM

3812Michelle - come to america

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at September 13, 2006 1:36 PM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Plague says "3812Michelle - come to america".

Actually I would recommend you to come to PaK.

Amerika is only 10 years behing Europe...and you can avoid the fighting and live in Peace in Pak which as you know is already muslim.

C'mon...it'll ba a blast.

Posted by: Naseem at September 13, 2006 1:40 PM

Can this fool be voted out of office, or is "The Village Idiot" an office for life in the Netherlands? He sounds more like he's in Never-never land instead of the Netherlands.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 13, 2006 1:53 PM

One more blight against the name Donner.

Posted by: the poetess at September 13, 2006 2:08 PM

Why has Naseem not been banned? Is she really Robert Spencer trying to create an atmosphere of argumentation for the sake of controversy?

Shame on him in that case. If that is NOT the case, WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU PEOPLE RESPONDING AT ALL to her???

Posted by: Art Cove at September 13, 2006 2:18 PM

She is kept on for pedagogic purposes. She exists, an Ahmadiya in Pakistan who can't make a break over the wall to Christianity, who is therefore stuck with Islam, albeit Ahmadiyya Islam, and does not quite know what to do. She is hoping that somehow all of Europe will islamize, and that this, in turn, will somehow soften Islam, change Islam for the better. A crazy thought. But there are millions like her, and hundreds of millions far worse than she is. She's useful.

Posted by: Hugh at September 13, 2006 2:22 PM

C'mon Hugh, only a professional writer like you cold pull off a Naseem with such comedic clarity.

What impresses me most is that you're able to don that jibab you keep by your desk and totally switch out of your comma-dense prose style (which I find easy to read, btw) to the free flowing, trippy style of Naseem.

* 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21** 33:21*

What's an Ahmadiya?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 13, 2006 2:35 PM

These stupid remarks stirred up the hive real good around here. Tomorrow morning (local time) there will be an urgent meeting of the parliament where his fate as a minister is decided. I personally don't think he will be fired because the elections are this November. But these remarks have already generated lot's of sympathy for the conservative-right Freedom Party of Geert Wilders and the pro-Arab left (The Green Party) are getting a nervous breakdown.

Posted by: DrWolffenstein at September 13, 2006 2:48 PM

And by the way Robert, his name isn't "Piet". His name is "Piet Hein".

Posted by: DrWolffenstein at September 13, 2006 2:54 PM

Heineken and Grolsch - I shall miss thee.

Posted by: MP at September 13, 2006 3:39 PM

"What if two-thirds of the Dutch population decided that all Muslims must be sent to death camps for execution along with anyone who collaborates with them? Would the Justice Minister be willing to go along with this?"

LOL, the pleasures of democracy...

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 4:20 PM

"Well it isn't everyday that your predictions come true. I have said 2 years ago that democracy will be used to destroy or replace democracy. "

once again stupid nasheem grown up among goats doesn't know the basic teachings of history.

Hitler took power with democracy tools, and we all know what happened later.

But the rebuild germany is very nice therefore I have no fear that a muslim majority Holland will be grounded to zero and rebuilt muslim-free.

Welcome to your death nasheem. The rest of the muslim world will be next. And this time with NO regrets.

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 4:23 PM

"C'mon...it'll ba a blast."

stupid cow, the only blast you will hear is a big mushroom nearby you and we will just say "inshalla". And Laugh, LAUGH.

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 4:31 PM

"Why has Naseem not been banned? "

I have given up asking but at least we have the chance to kick a real muslim around all the time without PC bullshits around.

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 4:32 PM

East moves west, but the West never moves East. Why? Because who wants to live in a Muslim country?????

Posted by: Ironman at September 13, 2006 4:59 PM

FedUp,

Never will Naseem be banned. Never.

Posted by: Hugh #259942

Is it clearer now?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 13, 2006 5:45 PM

Donner Kebab is technically right a two thirds majority can change the constitution, but let me emphasis it is just not going to happen, the Dutch are just not that bloody stupid. As I said in an earlier posting here there is a sea change one can feel it. As DrWolfenstein has pointed out there are elections in November and this gentleman is floating a political balloon to see which way the political wind is blowing. The Dutch parliament is always made up of several parties, usually with one large party and several small parties. The formation of a cabinet and parliament can take weeks sometimes months and the horse trading is wondrous to observe, Geert Wilder's ( he of the peroxide hairdo and a couple of hundred death threats ) new party stands a good chance if he gets 10 to 12 seats of being a deciding factor, so for christs sake don't write off the Dutch because one of its Ministers has made stupid statement. Americans should also remember they are one of your allies fighting in Afganistan and Dutch soldiers have also been coming back in wooden boxes.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at September 13, 2006 5:50 PM

"She's useful."

Posted above by: Hugh

Well, at least she's upbeat and kind of plucky. Personally, I don't see the difference between, "convert or we will kill you" and "convert or they will kill you", which is the concluding theme of almost all of her posts.

She is absolutely dishonest in her presentation of Ahmadiyya "Islam", especially as though it is a potential salvation from the orthodox Islamists. It is and will always be apostasy from orthodox Islam. No number of Ahmadiyya converts can save her sorry ass from the true Islamists and yet still she prefers to live among them.

She never answers a single question relevant to being in Pakistan in a meaningful way. She only slightly cloaks her acceptance of your bloody death to advance the cause of militant Islam, which is OK as long as it is not by her hand.

However, I say keep her on as well. She's occasionally useful for ideological target practice.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 13, 2006 5:55 PM

Stop with the idea of banning naseem, I like them all. They show up whenever islam is in the news and occasionally their writing style matches previous posts. True, if you are a daily reader you can tell which one is working and who is off. At least they add comedy relief and if he/she/they are banned they might send a professional spokesperson.

Posted by: Ronin at September 13, 2006 5:59 PM

Assalamau Laikum all,

I have to agree with Hugh...why should I be banned? In a democratic forum such as JW my opinion may not be the same as yours but the right to say it must remain.

Art Cove and Fedup (aka Gorniak) demonstrate a personal attack on me when really it is the powerful message that they get emotional over.

Usually emotions spill when there is a grain of truth in what is being said. I say the things that lurk in the deepest depths of the Kafur's polluted mind, the things that you don't want to comprehend..but I put them on paper for you...and you want to ban me for that!...

Your forefathers had the technology to cure shortsightness but do not have the foresight of Allah.

Democracy rules were made by the Kafur for the Kafur....ofcourse they thought that only their peoples will live in England and the Amerekie.

How could they have known that only muslim holy ordained law will stay the course globally.

As an example, the byzantine empire had the best weapons, the best trained soldiers and the most advanced technology, wines fine arts etc.. They would laugh at the muslim , They were invincible ...or at least they thought.

They were "vanquished" from within, by the might of Allah's chosen. Then They had to relearn the way of living by the light of Islam.

Now it is your turn...art cove...fedup. You have the weapons and the technology...but remember the news in just today nobody wants to help Nato in Afgan...Can you start to see the similarities...blond boys don't want to go!

Don't fret, Do not worry about having to step back towards the 7th centuary ...a bit mystyfing at first ..and you may have growing pains...fedup but remember your grandaughters will be completely at home within Islam.

Now, There will be no polish king to stop things ...we are already way past that...hush

if you listen carefully you can hear it....hush ..fedup listen..there it is again

"Allah hu Akbar" (Allah is greater)....it is coming from that old converted church ..

come friends...romans...grandaughters....lend me your ears, it is time for the Azaan (call to prayers)...all are welcome and your presence is mandatory...especially because the religious police say so.

Posted by: Naseem at September 13, 2006 6:09 PM

"FedUp,

Never will Naseem be banned. Never.

Posted by: Hugh #259942

Is it clearer now?"

I have not said I don't know the reason or I don't understand it.

It was another poster who requested that. I said I gave up requesting because I had read the reason. I don't agree with it but I have read it.

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 6:19 PM

FedUp,

Apologies.

Interesting how Naseem clings to Western democratic principles to defend her right to post. How would she fair in Saudi Arabia posting her heretical Ahmadiyya faith? Go ahead Naseem, teach your Ahmadi way to the Wahhabs, see if you fair better than with the Deobandis right at home. That grain of truth hurts every now and then, does'nt it, Naseem? Hush, listen... yes, you can hear it now... that creaking noise in the distance... it's an Ahmadi just like you, swinging from the gallows.

Best abandon your perch, Naseem, and come over here where you are safe to spout off your ridiculous taunts.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 13, 2006 6:32 PM

naseem,

You protect a culture, which doesn't even except you as a real muslim. Stop trying to save us and obey mohammad. You should not even talk to men without permission. You disobey your own faith, protect a culture which doesn’t except you and continue to insult men which is a flagrant violation of muslim law, madness. I could almost suspect this is just your occupation, if so that just makes you little more than a barboog but like I said I just have suspicions and could be wrong.

I am not as eloquent as some but you are always wishing harm on us, I can only respond with “Bala ya khumak”

On the other hand if you can escape to the west and convert. I’ll send you a nice ham and my favorite BBQ recipe. I’ll toss in a few bucks for a colorful dress and a hat; it might take time for you to get used to not covering your head. We could become friends.

Posted by: Ronin at September 13, 2006 6:38 PM

"Art Cove and Fedup (aka Gorniak) demonstrate a personal attack on me when really it is the powerful message that they get emotional over. "

as i said other times, for a sociopath and a mentally deranged "person" like yourself all the attention you are receiving is damaging. You actually feel important while in reality you are as important as a mosquito over animal feces.

But in my town there's an old saying: when you hope very bad things happens to a person, usually sooner or later those things happens. You might have an idea of what I wish for you. Well, it's not even the half of what it really is...

As your death cult inspires you feel superior to the rest of humanity, when it's not like that.

"Usually emotions spill when there is a grain of truth in what is being said. "

not the slightest. again you are over-estimating yourself. you are a stupid illiterate half-brained woman from the most hated cult of all times thinking you are somewhat important.

It was like being in a class with the bully of the class. The teacher must put him behind the blackboard and humiliate him a bit, otherwise he becomes more aggressive. Not surely because the teacher thinks this kid is right or true.

You need that nasheem, unfortunately there isn't your husband anymore around to beat you with a stick so we are your muslim husband here.

"Your forefathers had the technology to cure shortsightness but do not have the foresight of Allah. "

your hahallah was so stupid to "appear" centuries after the hindu gods, the jew god, christ and buddah. He arrived even after satan...

First arrived, first served. I say your hahallah is the god with LESS foresight.

"Now it is your turn...art cove...fedup. You have the weapons and the technology...but remember the news in just today nobody wants to help Nato in Afgan...Can you start to see the similarities...blond boys don't want to go!"

well, stupid cow, may I point out to you the similarities with hiroshima and nagasaki. With one difference. The japanese weren't as annoying and stupid as the muslims... think about it.

The only thing the west care is money and wealth. Do you think the west can sit back and watch while you animals throw away 2 millenniums of science and progress and wealth and reduce us to your shitholes?

cmon, we exterminated people for much less.

"fedup but remember your grandaughters will be completely at home within Islam. "

not before your son will find himself in a huge mushroom

""Allah hu Akbar" (Allah is greater)....it is coming from that old converted church ..

come friends...romans...grandaughters....lend me your ears, it is time for the Azaan (call to prayers)...all are welcome and your presence is mandatory...especially because the religious police say so. "

your meds are on the table... remember to take them in large quantities. There is no cure for mental deficiency but you can try

remember nasheem... there are some nice pills... take the whole box... then go to sleep and you will see that... you will no longer be with us... but with your moon god... and 72 goats and ... because hahallahha is great you can be... a goat.... now expect your muslim martyr

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 6:41 PM

and always to burst nasheem's bubble over and over

Damir Mukhetdinov, first deputy mufti of the Nizhegorodsky region along Russia's Volga river, complained that there are more Muslims, especially Tatars, converting to Russian Orthodoxy than Russian Christians converting to Islam.

``A huge number of Tatars enter mixed marriages (with Russians) and their children loose their sense of religious and ethnic identity, and even call their children by Russian names,'' said mufti Mukhetdinov, reported Newsru, a Russian web newspaper. ``And the next generation even accepts Russian Orthodoxy. Such people are more numerous than Russians accepting Islam.''

ooooooooh, the horror, muslims giving up the death cult for another religion

and

ooooooooooooooooh, even worse, not giving a damn about the reaction of other muslims!!!

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 7:57 PM

I'm more interested in the question "if a
majority of the population wants to introduce
measures to stop Muslims from coming in and
having babies on the cheap, should they be
allowed to do so".

And of course, I think the answer is yes.

Next question is if the majority can vote that
minority of Muslims out. I say yes to that also.

Finally, comes the question of military action
against the invaders, to which I answer in the
affirmative as well.

Posted by: root_cause at September 13, 2006 8:20 PM

it will be enough just to treat them as they treat non muslim in their countries,

from turkey to egypt a non-muslim have a hard time finding a job, keeping a job, findig a home to stay and even having social life.

Simply if all the westerners stopped hiring muslims, renting homes to them, half of our problems would be over.

Posted by: FedUp at September 13, 2006 8:27 PM

Great news from Russia, also, recall a claim from the Russian Orthodox Church that 2 million muslims have converted in the last 15 years and conversions go up after each terrorist outrage like Beslan.

Hopefully, the conservatives will win the election in Sweden this weekend and that country will became more like Denmark.

Posted by: PAS at September 13, 2006 9:16 PM

As far as Naseem is concerned, she is a troll. That means she says what she does to get you riled up. She doesn't believe any of that stuff, but she says it to get a rise out of you.

It is strange that while all other islamic trolls have been banned, she has not. Gives weight to the grassy knoll conspiracy theory that she is a plant. Her use of perfect colloquial American english does not sound like any islamicized indian woman. But I digress.

As for Holland, well, I agree with donner in that if Holland, or any nation, is already 2/3rds islamic, then it is already a coupe d'etat, and no one can complain at that point. They gave up the ship. That is what da'wa is all about. Taking over by numbers, via democracy. That is why we must deport the muslims. With time, simple exponential math, coupled with democracy, guarantees that Sharia law will become a fact. Democracy does not mean liberal. Democracy means majority rule. Unfortunately, Bush and others, think that democracy ushers in liberal values. It does not. Democracy only produces what the people want. In Algeria, it produced an islamic government, so they nullified the elections. Smart move.

I must confess, for that reason, I was never a big believer in democracy. Democracy is only as good as the people that vote and the people that run. If those that run are corrupt, and those that vote are stupid, or vice versa, what does democracy guarantee?

Democracy is simply majority rule, and in some cases, the majority is out to lunch, or the candidates are so similiar, that it matters not who is voted in. Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind. And in the west, if congresses or parliaments can be dhimmified and corrupted, then democracy becomes a double-edged sword which can be used to destroy the very thing it was created to protect - namely the well being of the majority. I favor a libertarian dictatorship if such a thing is possible. The best of both worlds. I know Voltaire would vote for such a dictator. He could always temper such a man with assassination.

Ancient Rome, surrounded by land enemies, lasted 1200 years with that basic system. America, surrounded by ocean, might not even last 250. History will judge which system served its peoples longer and more faithfully.

Posted by: August22 at September 13, 2006 9:26 PM

Holger Dansker:

It is always good to read your posts especially after reading what this reindeer, Donner, had to say. Your optimism is encouraging and we are kinsmen in this fight. Please continue to give good news out of Denmark and Holland to the faint of spirit who wish to dismiss your country as traitors in this battle.

Posted by: Briars at September 13, 2006 10:03 PM

I could not believe this when I read it earlier today.

It is incomprehensible why a society would want to willingly step into slavery and eventual death. What possible motivation could there be for this?

Is it just a complete ignornance of what Sharia law really is all about? Do they really not know?

I'm grasping for answers and understanding, and am coming up empty. Why would any country commit suicide in this way? Why would they want to?

Posted by: Mo at September 13, 2006 10:25 PM

Naseem: 'welcome to Eurabia'

Although Naseem is probably a troll, many Muslim leaders make similar predictions and threaten to force sharia law and other Islamic idioces upon us, so the post deserves a response.

Naseem, you and other Muslim bigots never take into account the fact that we created the culture we have kindly allowed you and your kind to share. Without our inventions and discoveries you would be living your life in the 7th century. Your comments would not reach us because the computer is a western invention. The western world and the present high level of medical, scientific and techological progress is a European achievement that backward religious fanatics can never hope to equal.

Did I hear you say that Muslims will eventually outbreed us and take over our societies, Naseem? I doubt it, but if it happened, it would be educational to see how long everything remained in good order. Judging by the behaviour of Muslims worldwide, western institutions will last about 5 minutes since Muslims are certainly not capable of sustaining a culture based on individual and religious freedom.

If our culture were to be defeated by Islam, western countries would soon become as unlivable as Muslim countries - and who would Muslims sponge off then?

Cardinal Bellarmino stated at the trial of Galileo in 1615, that:

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin".

Sheik Abdel –Aziz ibn Baaz, supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia stated in 1993 that:

"The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment". [quoted by Yousef M. Ibrahim, The New York Times, 12 February 1995]

You are already over 400 years behind us

Posted by: Deecha at September 13, 2006 10:40 PM

Read this reposted article. Written by a muslim immigrant it was banned in the Netherlands for years.

The Downfall of the Netherlands
Land of the Naive Fools

http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm

I really don't think many people know what sharia law will mean for them. They are nice and raised to believe that if they are nice and tolerant then others will behave the same to them.

Posted by: Borg at September 13, 2006 10:57 PM

"Peace in Pakistan"? Is that what it's meant to be called? The terror under which non-muslims live is called, by a muslim, "peace".

This comment may be unsurprising. Many muslims actively engaging in da'wa define the word "islam" as "peace". Of course, it does not peace - it means "submission".

Some minds translate the two words the same way. Some do not. The new reader should learn which minds these are, and why.

In that sense, Naseem does a great service to the "Dar al-Harb", or "World Which Is To Be Made War On" in Arabic, by posting here; although, perhaps, not in the way she would like.

The post "it is time for the Azaan (call to prayers)...all are welcome and your presence is mandatory...especially because the religious police say so" needs no further annotation. Save perhaps that it is not merely the ears which islam demands, but ultimately the hands, the feet and the head.

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at September 13, 2006 11:19 PM

"...only those should be considered citizens who fully accept the political, legal, and moral institutions and foundations of the country." -- from poster above

This is already part of the law in the USA -- I don't know about other nations, but I assume they have similar clauses for immigrants wishing to become citizens -- a citizen must swear allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America.

There are also ample laws on the books regarding the infuriating and preposterous invasion by the ILLEGALS surging over our border.

Let's face it: When the big crunches occur -- Laws don't move the political tectonic plates -- it's FERVOR -- ANGER -- REVULSION -- which animates nations.

We will not prevail until we develop a revulsion towards Islam and Muslims which we don't currently have. It isn't pretty - but it's the truth. What most haven't realized yet in the West is that the presence of Muslims in the West has already demanded of us such measures. I for one don't have much of a problem with the notion directly since I fervently believe and intellectually am convinced that Islam can and will subvert, degrade and ultimately destroy everything we hold dear if we allow it to persist.

The problem emerges (and it's no small thing) when one further understands the forces which will inevitably be unleashed when/if we take the measures required in order to survive. I think our survival, in the end, will require us to resort to a brutality that I'm not sure we can muster, or are willing to even contemplate mustering. If that is true, then there is nothing to be done but find accomodation with the ever spiraling list of things which Muslims will happily burden us with until we are ground to dust.

The other day I was reading a commentary wherein the author rued the 'recent' impingements on our rights after 9/11. I reminded the author that Muslim terrorism in the late 1960s and 1970s made the necessity of metal detectors and wand searches a MUST in airline travel globally. Yet somehow we metabolized that fact into our daily lives until that simply became another 'given' of 'security'.

Make no mistake -- this is the slow Jihad -- the one which surges forward -- makes gains -- permits toeholds -- and then withdraws or hibernates for a time. The target audience (US) becomes accustomed to the 'new normal' and then the process begins anew. Through this alone (abetted by the breeding programs behind enemy lines in the House of War, Dar ul Harb, the Muslims will eventually destroy their way to hegemony.

Posted by: jsla at September 14, 2006 12:13 AM

Concerned Citizen, and others,

Never mind Naseem's usefulness as a touchstone, never mind her explications of the content of her posts and her justifications for her beliefs. Never mind her (occasional) silly statement that the devil-worship of islam will triumph over our God-given reason and our hard-won freedoms. In fact, never mind all her odd quirks. At least Naseem is always polite. She greets us as she should and frequently signs off with suavity and style. Many of us here could learn a great deal from her good manners, her forbearance in the face of the unwarranted rudeness from many who post here and her patience even though we do not, and never will, agree with the tenor of her arguments. Good manners cost nothing and hurt no-one.

Hugh, and JW/DW, have the right of it here, I'm afraid. There is no reason to ban her, for she is not rude or abusive and she is seldom off-topic. You may not like, or agree with, what she says but within the constraints laid down by the owners and controllers of this site she has a perfect right to her opinions. Live with it. This is the freedom and the democracy which we are supposed to be proud of and defending - perhaps it is even the oft identified dichotomy at the very heart of our beliefs.

Naseem, believe it or not, may just, by virtue of the sect to which she belongs, be more on our side than on the moslem side. Never reject an ally in time of war! One can destroy one's allies, if necessary, later and at leisure!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at September 14, 2006 1:13 AM

Good arguments all, particularly to Nassem,

I have to say, muslims have been reorganizing since 1950's to infiltrate usa & europe.

Why?, to control the west, & the rest of the world, and also they have a faked reason that they are human & others are not. So, they have right over us.

This makes no sense in a religious point of view. But in a political point of view, Yes.

Its about control, power & money.

The arabs have led weak minded people into believing into this concept & they made them to fight & die for them.

Even the history of Halal food was distorted conviniently. What am to say about the quran. 19 hearings with objections every single time. Its definately not accurate.

The dutch minister is right. if the majority rules & wants sharia, they shall get it. But is it quite stupid to base a future of a countries' structure on a book that has fake capitalism motives.

The muslim goverment had messed up everything from spain to Indonesia. They make their own people stupid by shutting off communication to the outside world.

It enforces order to a magnitude but in a wrong way. It itself could not defend its liberties & thats its weakness.

The muslims in Nethelands could freely practice their religion. This is because of liberty, not democracy. Nassem, you are wong on this, democracy wont destroy itself, liberty will. Democracy is just another way to control the masses from being insecure.

Ok, Fine, Islam is against democracy, but how does it confront libertism? You guys have no idea how it would backfire. This is something that will turn the colck 2 centuries backwards. The only way they solve it is more Islam.

That also means, Nassem, you would be killed for not following true Islam, For an extream example that it.

Muslims in particular have to think hard about this. If the way was backwards, If the non muslims had it up to their nose, they just might emulate the nazies & calculatively put an end to your constant brainwashing, or perhaps your lives. It happened before, it could happen again & I pray it does not.

Posted by: tjwork at September 14, 2006 1:22 AM

I think it's a race between Sweden and the Netherlands with France not far behind in the race to Sharia.

The Netherlands may be the first domino, but it's not by itself important, having little significant military or strategic assets. Sweden falling doesn't scare me much, though as I recall it does have some nice fighter jet technology the umma would no doubt want. France is the real wild card here. If it falls to Sharia, or even has significant Islamic infiltration in its military, the umma gets direct control of a ready-made nuclear arsenal with intercontinenal capability. That's scary, a scenario that, unfortunately, I think is somewhat more likely than the US allowing Iran to manufacture a nuke. Posted by: aynrandgirl at September 14, 2006 1:53 AM

Remember, this is from the same Europe that drove out the elected government of Austria, when they elected that Herder {?} fellow. HE, and all he represented, was totally out of the question to them, but shariaa, which wars FUNDAMENTALLY with everything the post-modern world praises to the heavens, that very same shariaa they are more than willing to come to an accommodation with.

That Austrian they branded Hitler reincarnate, when he was nothing of the sort of course. But these shariaa devotees, genuine Hitler types, meaning genuine totalitarians, with a genuine desire and thirst to impose their satanic will, those very same, the EU types are "open" towards.

This is insanity.

It's nothing short of insanity.

Where are the women of Europe. Why aren't they raising their voices, taking to the streets, holding rallies and outdoor gatherings. Why aren't they stating clearly they won't be shut under a burqaa, they won't be treated like filth on the street, and that they demand the "men" around them to drive this threat from their countries, from their shores, from their Europe.

WHERE THE HELL are the women? For after the Jews, they will be the FIRST to suffer the consequences of this satanic caste system.

Posted by: Dan at September 14, 2006 2:19 AM

Guys, gals, please calm down.

The minister was just stating facts. If 60% of the Dutch population would agree to change the constitution, Sharia can come in as a law but not until then. In the meanwhile, he is issuing a warning to his countrymen not to let that happen. So give the guy a break. He is on the side of sanity, not Sharia. Be aware. France will have Sharia before Holland does.

Posted by: Krishan Kumra at September 14, 2006 3:09 AM

Oops! It is 2/3; not 60% above.

Posted by: Krishan Kumra at September 14, 2006 3:14 AM

Krishan Kumra is correct. Minister Donner (in his own words) never meant his remarks to reflect a willingness, or even passive reluctance, to implement sharia in the Netherlands.

Apparently the discussion in which those remarks were made was about selective or limited implementation of the sharia in, for instance, neighborhoods that are predominantly muslim. Donner said 'NO' and went on to explain that for something like that, a change of the constituion would be required, which in turn would require a 2/3 majority.

Of course only the later bit was reported and a scandal was born.

later this afternoon there will be an emergency session of Dutch parliament. Should make for an interesting discussion.

Posted by: Klein Verzet at September 14, 2006 3:41 AM

I'm now sure that 'Naseem' is a troll or several trolls whose opinions actually tend more towards ours, but who enjoy/s the attention of posting as a muslim. He/she/they also enjoy setting up ridiculous straw men for us to knock down, and reminding us of the horror islamic rule would bring to the west. Sucha as the idea that future generations will tolerate islam like a herd of sheep?

Thanks for the scare and reminder, Nas, I might try a few letters to the editor in the same vein.

"I'm looking forward to sharia, because I know a few people who've committed adultery and I'd love to see them stoned to death!"

"Sharia would be really great, because if all women were covered head to toe, there would never be any more rape. That old feminist adage 'Whatever our dress, Wherever we go, Yes means Yes and No means No' was so obviously wrong! A woman's willingness to have sex is totally determined by the way she dresses!"

Etc. This could be very jolly.

Posted by: Lili at September 14, 2006 4:56 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Lili says "I'm now sure that 'Naseem' is a troll or several trolls whose opinions actually tend more towards ours, but who enjoy/s the attention of posting as a muslim"!.

Lili obviously has never been to Pak. For if she had she would understand the very real dangers of sharing such opinions as mine with ANY others.

I have said publicly that I don't believe some of the suras in the Koran. This would be enough for the death sentence. You would only require a bit of jelousy etc..to report me to the (mainly sunni) police and I would be toast.

So Lili...I am not a troll, I am not serveral peoples I am one female 40+ Ahmadi muslima...that's it.

As to other peoples suspicions about me knowing "Americanisms", well let me tell you (a little) about me.

I was born and schooled in the UK until my 20s. I have a degree from a british university and I met Anwer at the same uni. He was from Lahore Pak, we got married and I moved to Lahore with him where I have been since.

I have 2 childrens, my son has finished his Uni studies (from the same UK Uni as me) and is back in Pak...and my daughter is at Lahore Uni.

My life has obviously been a bit of a rollercoaster with Anwer being injured in the earthquake 2 years ago and subsuquently died of his injuries...leaving me somewhat lonely.

I visit the UK sometimes ...but it is my dream to see the Amerekie sometime soon for holiday. I want to see for myself...just what kind of peoples you are and your way of living, ...and just why do the muslims hate you so.

I want to do this while your country is still Dar_al_harb and not too influenced by Islam...for once this is the case ...there is no going back.

In Pak...at time of Azaan, you can have a sunni and shite mosque facing each other....each trying to outvolume each other....and that can be annoying.

In the Amerike I would like to see that speaker volumes are regulated and "rival" mosques are not built near each other.

Troll/Froll/provecteur...these are words for others. I am Ahmadi offering Dua and preparing all the Kafur for Islam...but particularily for Ahymadi-ship.

Posted by: Naseem at September 14, 2006 6:03 AM

HMMMMMMMMMMMM chocolate!

The race is on for mumerical dominance or the Big Bang Theory.

My money is on the the Napoleonic bastard in Iran.

Posted by: Grateful1 at September 14, 2006 6:29 AM

Naseem, is Allah so vain, so narrow, so pigheaded that we can only respect, honor or love Allah one way or is it man who is so vain, so narrow, so pigheaded that he assumes that we can only respect, honor or love Allah one way???
Think about it...

Posted by: eloivsdiablo at September 14, 2006 9:36 AM

"it is my dream to see the Amerekie sometime soon for holiday. I want to see for myself"

too bad when you will touch USA's soil it will be arab hunting season.

bye bye nasheem troll, see you at the next hahallah sent earthquake in pak.

Posted by: FedUp at September 14, 2006 11:57 AM

Art Cove and Fedup (aka Gorniak) demonstrate a personal attack on me...

There goes Nassem, ala classic mulima, showing her true colors. Someone PLEASE tell me where I "personally attacked" her????

Classic muslim tactic, Naseem's is.

Posted by: Art Cove at September 14, 2006 12:06 PM

remember nasheem has got half a brain, so take into consideration.

Other than that. Who cares? The whole muslim world offends me and attacks me every day.

Posted by: FedUp at September 14, 2006 12:54 PM

"I am not serveral peoples "

Absolute and final proof of Naseem's trolldom. I have posted for her at least three times that 'people' 'children' 'men' and 'women' are plural nouns that need no 's' at the end.

The fact that she persist in adding the 's' is obviously purely to annoy and frustrate. I can't believe that anyone could be stupid enough to keep doing it by mistake.

Also, how could anyone be stupid enough to cling to a faith that could have her condemned for not agreeing with all its tenets?

Troll.

Posted by: Lili at September 15, 2006 3:48 AM