""That autonomy helped those people integrate at their own speed into Dutch society. This compact hospital will give Muslims time to integrate at their own speed.""

at their own speed means NEVER.

However I would vote such a hospital only if done with muslim doctors ( AKA illiterate from the 3rd world) and total ban for muslim people to be cured in western hospitals.

that way muslim population will reduce

Posted by: StillFedUp at October 5, 2006 12:24 PM

By all appearances Muslim populations DO NOT WANT to integrate. This puts plans for separate Muslim institutions on a different plain altogether than separate Catholic institutions, Protestant institutions, Jewish institutions and the like, none of which to my knowledge, relate to a program for society that refuses to recognize the sovereignty of Western laws, governments and customs in Western lands. Islam seems to have such a program. This ought to disqualify it from any claim to "separate but equal" treatment in respect to the establishment of these kinds of seperate institutions. Dutch, and other European lawmakers ought to refuse such plans as this and they ought to be quite open about this. If they resist us, in our own lands, we resist them - to their faces!

Posted by: templar at October 5, 2006 12:34 PM

If a non-muslim had a medical emergency in front of this proposed hospital, would treatment be refused based on religion?

Posted by: forest at October 5, 2006 12:36 PM

Who is paying for this nonsense?

So now muslims have the choice of being treated in a standard hospital or one exclusively reserved for themselves.

Posted by: Celsius at October 5, 2006 12:36 PM

Will AIDS patients be treated at this hospital or stoned to death for immorality? How about woman who has been raped if she does not have 4 male witnesses of good cahracter? How would an alcoholic be treated?

Posted by: Celsius at October 5, 2006 12:38 PM

Templar you and the others hit the nail on the head. They are not coming to become Westerners, they are coming to force us to become orientals or die. Next you will see them follow their Nazi legacy and refuse non pure --oriental-- blood.

Pig be upon him!

Posted by: lonewolf at October 5, 2006 12:47 PM

Good questions, Celsius, but look on the bright side: Muslims are unlikely to go do medical school, so the staff will probably consist mostly of infidels, so hopefully there won't be too many instances of patients getting murdered because they had been raped or were improperly dressed. Then again, Affirmative Action and apartheid will no doubt ensure that more Muslims will go through medical school.

Anyway, I just love it how tolerance and equality are championed by the same people who want to segregate people based on their gender and religion. We live in a strange world.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at October 5, 2006 1:06 PM

I think StillFedUp has made an excellent suggestion. These kind of places could employ all those Pakis with fake medical degrees and stop them from trying to get employment in the UK and USA.

Excerpt from Call out the fire brigade:

On April 1 last year, Professor Sir Graeme Catto, the president of the GMC received a six-page letter on the subject of “Junior doctors trained in Pakistan — Issues regarding fitness to practise” from a gentleman who requested anonymity “considering the fact Pakistan has a dictatorial rule, unfortunately freedom of speech is not a privilege and the exposition of truth in particular is considered to be a threat to the relevant authorities.” (One must disagree with this statement as the freedom we have today we have not enjoyed in the past.)

The writer of the letter, who has “worked in Pakistan for many years in various capacities, finally opting for an early retirement [for] personal and professional reasons,” stated that he is a “witness to the decline in the standard of medical education and health services over the years and in particular to the extremely rapid deterioration which has taken place over the last 10-15 years ...” Copies of his letter were endorsed to the presidents of the Royal Medical Colleges, England, the Royal College of Surgeons and Physicians, Edinburgh, the Royal College of Surgeons, Glasgow and the Royal College of Surgeons, Ireland.

The letter was widely circulated by its recipients to many other relevant institutions within the United Kingdom and Ireland.

The serious issues raised was the steep increase in fraudulent measures adopted by junior doctors trained in Pakistan in order to gain employment in the UK, including concocted CVs, false titles and tenures of jobs, fabricated testimonials, publications and presentations and other numerous acts involving plagiarism — all encouraged by certain senior doctors of Pakistan.

The letter gave details of how Pakistan’s medical colleges and teaching hospitals function (or rather malfunction), and how doctors obtain house jobs certificates without spending a single day in their wards. It described Karachi’s Civil Hospital as a “complete shambles” and “a den of corruption,” it blamed the PMDC, “a puppet of the federal ministry”, for letting medical education fall to the despicable standards it has reached today, it accused the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Pakistan (CPSP) of being out of control of the PMDC as the president of this institution runs it “on a commercial basis collecting exorbitant fees and has been in the chair for more than 20 years.”

Giving credit where credit is due, the writer did say that “there are still a few institutions such as the Aga Khan University, SUIT, etc, that have managed to maintain their professional standards.”

Posted by: Shahryar at October 5, 2006 1:15 PM

There have been and are Catholic hospitals,Seventh day adventist hospitals,Jewish Hospitals, and they have always been open to any and all in the USA in my lifetime.

This once proud model of tolerance for other cultures in the Netherlands and which is the home country of my mothers grandparents is now confronting an ideology that does not fit that model and demonstrates non assimilation, intolerance,antisemitism, and an aggressive determination to bring their sharia. and totalitarian Ideology to where ever they possibly can.

Posted by: Mackie at October 5, 2006 1:26 PM

As long as not a Euro of Govt. money goes to build or support it, I do not see a problem. I'm a big believer in the individual's right of association. My problem lies with large-scale immigration, and the constant bleating about the value of multiculturalism. Aside from the few who profit from the availability of cheap immigrant labor, I fail to see the value of immigration to the average citizen in the West.

Posted by: MP at October 5, 2006 1:27 PM

Jesus Christ Supercop, there would be no excuse for the women to be improperly dressed on the wards. They could import the Burka gown from the UK (no, I'm not kidding).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=403693&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source

I wonder if camel's urine will be on the list of prescribed medicines.

Posted by: Celsius at October 5, 2006 1:31 PM

Celsius said

I wonder if camel's urine will be on the list of prescribed medicines.

And blowing one's nose thrice upon waking will be prescribed for lymphatic cancer; cleaning one's buttocks with sand will be the cure for emphysema. If the medicine or equipment didn't exist at the time of Mohammad, it should be haraam. Like StillFedUp, I don't have a problem with that.

But what does "Muslim-only" hospital mean? Can a hospital legally refuse to treat someone (infidel) based on their religion? Does this set a precedent that the rest of the hospitals (and other agencies and companies) can refuse to admit Muslims based on their religion? If the government is going to start down the path of having a nation-within-a-nation, then it becomes a two-way street.

Posted by: special_guest at October 5, 2006 2:01 PM

thanks shahryar

"If a non-muslim had a medical emergency in front of this proposed hospital, would treatment be refused based on religion?"

no, but it would be pure justice if a muslim had a medical emergency in front of an infidel hospital is refused.

Posted by: StillFedUp at October 5, 2006 2:48 PM

He said: "If Mr Wilders is saying in a xenophobic way that this will prohibit integration of Muslim Dutch citizens, we just point to the fact that 20 or 30 years ago, Jewish, Roman Catholic and Protestant Dutch people had their own schools, their own hospitals, their own trade unions and employers' organisations.

"That autonomy helped those people integrate at their own speed into Dutch society. This compact hospital will give Muslims time to integrate at their own speed."

What world is this guy living in? Muslims seem strangely resistant to integration-that's why they riot wherever they're found in great numbers in the West. The same can't be said of the other groups.

By the way, will a Muslim violently reject a trip to an infidel hospital when he's dying of injuries during a Ramadan "celebration"? He'd better if he wants a trip to "paradise".

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 5, 2006 2:53 PM

special_guest:
Does this set a precedent that the rest of the hospitals (and other agencies and companies) can refuse to admit Muslims based on their religion?

I think we all know the answer to this riddle: all discrimination is equal, but some discrimination is more equal. It's a-okay if Muslims were to discriminate patients based on their religion, clothing or what their "community leaders" decided that morning, but it certainly wouldn't be a-okay for infidels to discriminate Muslims who, after all, are the Master Race.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at October 5, 2006 2:54 PM

What world is this guy living in?
--- by ISLAMISFORLOSERS

Trust me, you don't want to know.

Posted by: DrWolffenstein at October 5, 2006 3:08 PM

Soon the Dutch non-Muslim population won't have ANY medical facilities at all in their homeland (that is if the Muslims get their way)and the EU will be making up excuses for THAT too.

Posted by: pythagoras at October 5, 2006 3:20 PM

"A populist Right-wing party..."
-- from the article above

What makes this party "populist"? Is it supported by the presumably Plain People of Holland, with nary a member of the self-defined elite in it? what makes this party "right-wing"? Is it the suspicion of Islam, totalitarian Islam, that makes this party "right-wing"? Is that it? Is it opposition to a belief-system that is entirely collectivist, that offers a Complete Regulation of Life and a Total Explanation of the Universe, that views the world as divided between members of the umma, fellow Believers, and all others, who are merely Infidels, and must either be converted, or killed, or subject to the permanent status of dhimmi, one involving degradation, humiliation, and permanent physical insecurity. And of course Islam cannot conceivably allow its adherents to concede that governments should locate their legitimacy in the expressed will of the people rather than the expressed will of Allah, as revealed in Qur'an, with the Qur'anic meaning glossed and amplified by the Sunnah (which in turn is teased out of the Hadith and the biography of Muhammad). Nor can it conceivably support individual liberties, which goes against the collectivist spirit and letter of Islam.
And the hatred for free and skeptical inquiry, for most forms of artistic expression (oh, mosques are okay, and so is calligraphy, but that's about it, and has been for 1350 years), is also part of Islam.

If one hates or fears all that, and joins a party that takes as its main platform the fear and even hatred of all that, does that make the party "right-wing"?

Why?

Posted by: Hugh at October 5, 2006 4:17 PM

Pym Fortuyn (the gay socialist) was regularly described as being on the "far right" in the UK press.

Years ahead of his time and cruelly murdered by an idiot.

If only he had become Dutch PM a few years ago, things may have been different.

Posted by: Celsius at October 5, 2006 4:28 PM

All discrimination is equal, but some discrimination is more equal. It's a-okay if Muslims were to discriminate patients based on their religion, clothing or what their "community leaders" decided that morning, but it certainly wouldn't be a-okay for infidels to discriminate Muslims who, after all, are the Master Race.

APPLAUSE!

Posted by: StillFedUp at October 5, 2006 4:35 PM

Muslim-only hospital?

Muslim-only doctors and nurses -- of course.

Muslim-only administrators -- yes, it will make everyone feel at ease.

Medicines and medical equipment only if invented and produced by Muslims only.

All funds for medical care by Muslims-only for Muslims-only should, of course, be supplied by --Muslims only.

This should be tried. In fact, it should be made mandatory. Muslims-only at Muslims-only hospitals, with Muslim doctors, Muslim nurses, Muslim administrators, Muslim ambulance drivers, Muslim cooks, Muslim drugs, Muslim vaccines, Muslim machines, Muslim money from Muslim patients paying for those Muslim doctors, nurses, administrators, cooks, drugs, vaccines, machines.

An idea whose time has come.

Posted by: Hugh at October 5, 2006 4:53 PM

Moslem doctors and nurses for this experiment? What ever happened to Doctors without Borders? On the other hand, this could result in Frontieres sans Medecins!

Posted by: Chatillon at October 5, 2006 5:30 PM

I'm moving to saudi arabia in a few days. I'm sure they'll have a hospital just for us Westerners. You Know, were I can were shorts and a tank top. KIDDING. Reciprocity is a one way street in islamic eyes.

Posted by: mustang65 at October 5, 2006 6:11 PM

MP:

It seems to me that beyond the question of multiculturalism and immigration, what is at stake here is the State's willingness to further empower and lend credibility to a minority that represents interests hostile to its own interests and the common public good. Even were the funding for the project entirely drawn from privately raised revenues the optics and the psychological significance of this kind of plan represent yet another brick in the wall of jihad and dhimmitude. Is it right to say that an immigrant group that is already poorly enough integrated into the host society, arguably even quite hostile to it, should be allowed to make yet more separatist demands? I'd say this is a very bad idea, that can only enourage new and bolder demands down the road.

I'd welcome your response to this thought.

Take care.

Posted by: templar at October 5, 2006 6:34 PM

The Dutch have to be asking themsleves why they allowed muslims to immigrate and breed - uncontrolled - in the first place.

Will we have to liberate Holland once more in WW III?

Posted by: tuckunderbreak at October 5, 2006 6:35 PM

Hello Templar, You make a good point. I would be 100% against this proposed Jihad-General Hospital if a single guilder (err Euro) of Dutch taxpayers' money is involved. I feel what people do on their own dime, as long as they obey the law, is their business. Look at it this way; if the Dutch government has the power to tell law-abiding citizens how to spend their own money, they could require you to do most anything. They could tell you who you must sell your house to, and for what price, etc. Without the right of free association, they could compel you to live and work the way they see fit. Quite frankly, the Dutch Government seems to lack the common sense to make decisions of this nature, even if you concede that they have the right (or merely have the power) to do so. Just my thought on this. I mistrust government. It seems to be simultaneously incompetent in carrying out the tasks like defense, maintaining infrastructure, etc. that it should perform, yet perversely desirous to acquire even more powere over individualstelling us what to eat, where to live, and even what to think.

Posted by: MP at October 5, 2006 7:14 PM

If the Muslims wish to keep themselves segregated from their host societies, all the better. If European health-care billing is anything like the US system, the medical staff will fill out their forms and send them to Uncle Sugar for payment. We working stiffs will pay for our Muslim friends’ medical care in either case.

A segregated medical facility would have two benefits; (1) it would be a powerful visual for Westerners and (2) in the end-game, isolation is our friend. The greater the isolation, the wider the options as we kick the Clash of Civilizations can down the road. I'm surprised that the Muslims aren't calling for full integration. Arrogance will be Islam's downfall.

Posted by: limes at October 6, 2006 12:45 AM

Mackie
re your post on hospitals of other denominations:
same here in Australia and it has worked well. I have been to at least one of each!

There was a big scandal re a Canadian-Pakistani doctor here. He caused the deaths of over 80 people.He refused to wash his hands before surgery.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/General/The-scandal-of-Dr-Death/2005/05/27/1117129900672.html

I agree with Hugh. Let them have exculsively muslims hospitals and let the governments check their statistics!

Templar - is that you on Bolt's 'Blog, or is it that you have such a cool name that someone else is using it also? Just curious!

Posted by: Gramfan at October 6, 2006 12:49 AM

The problem isn't that they (Muslims) are getting their own hospital. The problem is that their culture, institutions, RELIGION etc. are hostile to those of the host nation, in this case Holland. Even the endlessly tolerant Dutch are beginning to see the light.

Posted by: alexon at October 6, 2006 12:51 AM

The same will happen as in Gaza the quality of treatment will sink so low that they will demand admission to the Infidel hospitals and all the rest of us muggs will end up footing the bill the way the Israeli tax payer pays to sew the wounded palastinians

Posted by: Holger Dansker at October 6, 2006 5:07 AM

Holger:

The reason Palestinians seek medical attention in Israeli hospitals goes beyond mere quality of care. Recalling the "Gaza Beach Bombing" incident of June '06, it seems the "triage" performed by Palestinian doctors make consist of removing evidence as to bombs (as not being of Israeli origin), that resulted in greater injury to the wounded than had there been no intervention. And, recalling the legendary Pallywood case of Mohammed Al-Durrah, presumably the same would be true of Palestinian gunshot wound "victims".

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 6, 2006 8:26 AM

Gramfan:

I recently posted a comment on Westernresistance.com, but I've never posted on Bolt's Blog.

Sometime after I began posting here, back in early- or mid-August, which was when I first used the name, I wanted to go back and check something I had said earlier, so I did a Google search and found comments on Jihadwatch that I had not made, that had been posted by a person using the same name some time earlier, at least a year ago I think, so it's likely that there are others, possibly quite a few, of us in the blogosphere.

Which raises a problem. If the earlier Templar shows up on this site again, I'll probably end up modifying the name or changing to something else altogether.

Posted by: templar at October 6, 2006 4:40 PM

Lets see will a individual brought there semi conscous after an attempted honour killing be helped to die? or to live/ will a female get genital mutulation or will doctors who do that get thrown in jail,will rape victims be treated with respect or will their suffuring be swept under the muslim curtain of second class and protect the family honour.Will the hospitalbecome a unlimited sourse for those claiming hurt by oldtime Dutch people.

Posted by: mark52 at October 6, 2006 6:21 PM

What is sturkenboom talking about? I was raised Catholic, yet I could easily share a hospital with a Jewish man or a muslim woman.

Posted by: mustang65 at October 7, 2006 8:56 AM