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More public school establishment clause follies. Only one religion violates the establishment clause, evidently. By Bob Unruh in WorldNetDaily, with thanks to Doug:
Another school has been "teaching" Islam by having students study and learn Muslim prayers and dress as Muslims, and a lawyer who argued a previous dispute over this issue to the U.S. Supreme Court said such methodologies wouldn't "last 10 seconds" if it were Christianity being taught."Would it have been 'just cultural education' if students were in simulated baptisms, wearing a crucifix, having taken the name of St. John and with praise banners saying 'Praise be to Jesus Christ' on classroom walls?" asked Edward White III, of the Thomas More Law Center.
His comments came after a new protest arose in Nyssa, Ore., where one parent raised objections when the Islamic teachings came to light. The district there, according to Supt. Don Grotting, is teaching a chapter in a history textbook "Journey Across Time" that talks about "how civilization has developed and some of the particular aspects of Islam."
"We teach out of the book, and there are some supplemental class activities," he told WND. "The kids do some skits, they could bring a food from the region, you could build a prop that would have depicted (something) maybe during that time period.
"If you wanted to you could dress up (as a Muslim) for extra credit," he said.
He said students also learned about the climate of the Middle East, the food and everyday activities of Islam, and the geography and the lay of the land.
Still another assignment was to learn the "five pillars" of Islam, study Ramadan and listen to guest speakers including an American Muslim who arrived dressed in her religious costume to talk to the kids about her Quran.
"She relayed to the kids, if you're a Christian you have your Bible, this is our Quran," Grotting said.
Parent Kendalee Garner, however, objected to having her son being taught Islam and also to the time the public school system spends on the subject.
She told WND that her 13-year-old son is being "indoctrinated that Islam is a religion of peace, and being dressed up as a Muslim, being taught prayers, and scriptures out of the Quran."
"I just don't understand the ban on Christianity but Islam has free rein," she said.
Posted by Robert at October 10, 2006 6:12 PM
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Good Lord, Nyssa is right accross the river from my home state. I think it's hilarious that the liberal western part of Oregon tried this in the conservative rural eastern part of the state. Then again I wonder of some wealthy Mullah is buying up land to start a "camp" like they did
Western Oregon. Eastern Oregonians tend to be a live and let live type. They like their privacy and they don't go bothering groups of people no matter how strange they are. Someone needs to remind Oregonians of what happened to the community of Antelope...it can happen again with Muslims and the consequences will be much worse. If the public schools do that here in Idaho I'll do everything in my power to publicly expose Islam for what it really is. Then again rural Idahoans don't put up with that kind of crap like Liberal Oregon...we still have that reputation of being a bunch or aryan racists.
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at October 10, 2006 6:36 PM
I really don't either, Kendalee. I think it might have something to do with islam being the "true" one, though...
Posted by: porksides at October 10, 2006 6:41 PM
What the hell is going on in this world? A study on Christianity will certainly get you crucified, but Muslim studies, fill your boots!
The world has gone without a doubt, completely insane.
All you hear about is how the Muslims are victims of the west, yet over 6000 terror attacks since 911 alone by Muslims, and we still don't get it.
We hear stories of the Bin Laden clan whisked out of country by the Bush administration when planes weren't allowed to fly. None of these pseudo intellectuals ever check their facts to see that the stories are just that.
I don't know what to do anymore, all I can say this kind of crap better not happen at my kids school.
Niv
Posted by: niv at October 10, 2006 6:42 PM
If I had kids in that school I would first pull them out. Write letters to my elected officials, the press, and the school board explaining that we have enough violence in our school without teaching jihad to children. I would remind them that the schools job is to educate and not indoctrinate. I would include copies of Robert’s latest book and if all that failed. I would try and raise enough money to buy a home across the street tear it down and put a 20-foot Star of David next to a 20-foot Christian cross. After all I want to respect real religions even if I don’t practice them.
Also needed would be handouts showing graphic muslim on muslim violence. It would only ask one question and one phrase:
“If this is how they treat their own, how will they treat you?
“The schools job is to educate and not indoctrinate”.
at October 10, 2006 6:43 PM
"'If you wanted to you could dress up (as a Muslim) for extra credit,' he said."
OK, children. Today we are going to learn about being spiritual whores. What? Spiritual wh... uh, just forget I said that, I meant open-minded. Now just put on your burkhas and turbins and you will make a better grade in this class than the prudish Islamophobic children who refuse to be whores... uh, openminded. What's that? Oh. Islam-o-phobic, I-S-L-A-M-O-P-H-O-B-I-C. It's... well... it's like being a racist. R-A-C-I-S-T. They're... well, they're like bad people, OK?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at October 10, 2006 6:50 PM
"...guest speakers including an American Muslim who arrived dressed in her religious costume to talk to the kids about her Quran."
Yes, her attire is a COSTUME and it is definitely HER {and not mine or anyone who doesn't want it) quran.
Posted by: 3812Michelle at October 10, 2006 7:15 PM
When I first started researching islam, I had nightmares. It scared the daylights out of me to think people really lived as they do and are as violent as they are. So let's scare the crap out of the children.
There is no redeeming value to islam. The children need to learn to NOT fall into the trap of muslims. They don't need it idolized. Old mo was a horrific criminal. They need to understand that. There is nothing worth worshipping about him.
They need to understand how terrible islam is to women. To children. To animals.
It's irresponsible of the school to allow indoctrination , as Ronin said, of these children.
Posted by: freewoman at October 10, 2006 7:53 PM
Hey teacher! I cut off my clitoris for extra credit.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at October 10, 2006 8:00 PM
Looks like the Islamization of this country will happen through the public school system. Who would have thought?
I tend to have a different opinion of school shootings in light of this, and the Excelsior School, Byron rulings. We need more Dylan Klebolds and Eric Harris' in every school where dawa in the guise of education is practiced. Having Satan worshippers and Nazis is preferable to having Islam in the school
Posted by: Infidel Pride at October 10, 2006 8:20 PM
I think I would send my kids to school dressed as Crusader Infidels ;-)
Or maybe in the traditional garb of one of the Cultures Islam exterminated or enslaved.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 10, 2006 8:26 PM
I think many of you have missed a very important point from the article. Sure, teaching Islam is bad. Note the even more important (in my opinion) admission from the superintendent that they're teaching it from a book! Since textbooks go through endless rounds of vetting, usually at the state level, who approved it? Given the scrutiny given even the most minor details of a new textbook, these sections can't have been missed. I wonder if there are moles, deliberately disguising their affiliation with Islam, inserting themselves at high levels in the various state governments in order to promote Islam. Moreover, who is writing this stuff? Inserting Islamic screeds into textbooks can only be intentional and deliberate on the part of the writer and publisher; are Islamists trying to take over our textbook industry?
Posted by: aynrandgirl at October 10, 2006 8:45 PM
I wrote recently that CAIR has runs to a school or college everytime they get their feeling hurt. When they go into a school or college for 'sensativity' or 'diversity' training they use a Educators Guide. They recently mentioned this Guide in an article complaining about another offense.
The guide can be seen at http://www.ico-ne.org/Education/Educators_Guide/educators_guide.html
After reviewing it you will see that this is a sermon and is being allowed in school.
Also, note at the bottom of the guide under 'Patriotism', muslims do not to have an allegiance to anything other then Islam. So they will not intigrate.
Posted by: alaskan1000 at October 10, 2006 8:56 PM
Hey Teach - On "dress like a Muslim day" can I wear my suicide bomb belt?
Posted by: MP at October 10, 2006 9:02 PM
Yo naseem, found work yet? (Muslims don't work otherwise their countries would be successful)
I have long said that education is no indicator of intelligence. We have many educators to thank for that. I especially like the ones at Columbia University. The students pay 30G's a year to learn how to be real A$$holes.
The learning of Muslims ways I think should be confined to the knowledge of how they train their soldiers. That way we will know how to defeat them.
God willing, of course.
at October 10, 2006 9:19 PM
Disgusting. Who is behind this idea to brainwash kids-CAIR? What exactly will these kids learn? That Mo was a nice and peaceful fellow? That the Palestinians had their country stolen from them?
That the US deserved 9/11? How about stoning girls in the schoolyard during recess for not observing Ramadan? Were kids taught the merits of Nazism during WW2? Of course not-anybody trying that would have been strung up from the nearest lampost. Yet here we are in a "war against terror" and we're introducing kids to the philosophy of the enemy. What kind of a nation do we have here? It's blatant idiocy like this that makes me ashamed to share the same country with such traitorous scum. Maybe that Naseem character is right-we are doomed if we allow this kind of cancerous idiocy to spread.
at October 10, 2006 9:28 PM
Hey, for extra credit I bitch-slapped my Mom and then slit my little sister's throat for going to church. Then I stole some money from my brother, but blamed it on my Jewish neighbor, so we both went over and beat him up. When the cops came we called the tv and radio to show how Islamophobic the police are.
Posted by: Sansantiago at October 10, 2006 9:29 PM
Hey Teach - On "dress like a Muslim day" can I wear my suicide bomb belt?
I have a better idea, supply all the kids with Infidel's Revenge Pens
;-)
What do you get the Crusader Infidel
Who has everything?
How it works. In the extreme heat of a terrorist explosion the components in the pens' chambers combine, and vaporize. The result is a fine atomized mist of fully active, reconstituted porcine plasma (pig's blood) permeating the entire scene; defiling the flesh and soul of the suicide bomber; paradise lost for terrorists and incentive eliminated for would-be-terrorists. Our products are safe, non-toxic and do not affect the eternity of infidels.
Overcome the fear of terror with the threat of eternal damnation.
PS they make great stocking stuffers LOL
at October 10, 2006 9:53 PM
Aynrandgirl -
There is a significant amount of information available about the Islamization of public shool textbooks. Jihadwatch/dhimmiwatch.org and Daniel Pipes websites provide a good place to start reflecting on this topic.
Spreading Islam in American Public Schools
Check The Textbook League and William J. Bennetta,
a professional editor, a fellow of the California Academy of Sciences, the president of The Textbook League, and the editor of The Textbook Letter. He writes often about the propagation of quackery, false "science" and false "history" in schoolbooks.
"Islam and the Textbooks," by Gilbert T. Sewall, February 2003
Then SEARCH the internet using terms like
* SEARCH "Islamic indoctrination in public schools",
The site dawanet.com explains the systemic (and deviously clever) manipulation of a free society.
According to Islamic Outreach site astrolabe.com. . .
Public schools are required to teach about Islam.
FrontPageMag:
How did such a textbook get written and approved? It was launched in accord with California policy in 1991, which wanted such a book to advance the state’s multi-culturalist, inclusive agenda.
In 1990 a new man was named its Chairman and Chief Executive Office at this textbook’s publisher Houghton Mifflin, and in 1991 he was also given the title President at the company. He was Nader F. Darehshori, who before coming to the United States in “the early 1960s,” as his short biography tells, was for a year a teacher “in a one-room elementary school in his native Iran.”
Iran, of course, is an overwhelmingly-Islamic country.
The textbook was published with approval by the Council on Islamic Education (CIE), formed in 1988 to promote a better treatment of the subject of Islam in such texts.
This 558-page history textbook, notes Rod Dreher in National Review, includes 55 pages about Islam, all of them positive. By contrast, the entire Middle Ages in Europe get only seven pages, and Christianity is discussed therein “not in terms of moral and theological belief, but almost entirely as a matter of power relations and social organization.”
The whole eastern half of the Roman Empire known as the Byzantine Empire that survived until 1453 (when Muslim Ottoman Turks toppled Constantinople) gets only six pages. A chapter about “Village Society in West Africa,” notes Dreher, rates eight pages.
But praiseful writing about Islam takes up 10 percent of this entire history book written for American students to study in their American Madrassas.
But does it matter when a handout supplement to the pro-Muslim Across the Centuries textbook hypnotically tells students that, as an exercise, “You and your classmates will become Muslims”? Or when students are required to memorize a prayer that includes the line “Praise be to Allah, Lord of Creation”?
There is one particular article I am having some difficulty locating . . .or perhaps I'm not recalling the details correctly. IIRC, there was a female text book advisor involved. Although muslim, her name didn't immediately identify the cultural link which would explain the bias in her critique/selections for school textbooks. If anyone can recall the article or correct my perception, kindly post the details.
at October 10, 2006 9:57 PM
Why? Why should this be allowed in seventh grade classrooms or in any western classroom for that matter? It's alright for crosses to disappear. Seems this teacher never learned that Islam is not a religion in any traditional sense of the word. Now she's beginning the brainwashing process with children. It's frightening that this is going on. She should read one of Robert's books.
Oh, missing the days of the pledge of allegiance and such.
at October 10, 2006 10:15 PM
This is easily fixed, send copies of this article and our response/concerns to your elected officials, your states and schools might be next. Keep copies of the responses you get back or lack thereof and vote accordingly next elections. You have no children, save someone else’s. The jihadi they train today will aim for you soon, stop the indoctrination slow the spread.
Posted by: Ronin at October 10, 2006 10:22 PM
If you have only time and energy for one area of political activity other than virtual
Make it the SCHOOL BOARD.
A house is only as strong as it's foundation.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 10, 2006 10:32 PM
The school board is a good idea but take the time to find out which side your elected officials are on, ultimately the schools money comes from them. Hopefully most of you will contact both.
Posted by: Ronin at October 10, 2006 10:40 PM
Have the students play-act a land conquered by Muslims. Choose some to be Muslim overlords, and others to be the non-Muslims. Hand out to the non-Muslims and Muslims alike the rules that will govern the conduct of the non-Muslims, and of course what it is that the Muslims will, in return, do for the non-Muslims. Then students will learn that the dhimmi, the non-Muslim under Muslim rule, will pay the Jizyah, will refrain from riding a horse, will not be able to sue a Muslim at law, will not be able, if a man, to marry a Muslim woman without first converting to Islam, and so on. And the students will also learn that if these "protected people" fail to fulfill their "contract" they then will lose their "protection" and can be killed.
Make it an occasion for real teaching.
The Five Pillars are trivial parts of the ritual. The heart of Islam is the Total Regulation of Life, the Complete Explanation of the Universe, the duty of Jihad to spread Islam until it everywhere dominates and everywhere Muslims rule, and of course its essence is contained in that division of the world between Believer and Infidel.
All else is apologetics, whether the result of suicidal innocence by non-Muslims, or sinister calculation by Muslims involved, hardly matters.
Posted by: Hugh at October 10, 2006 10:50 PM
This is what we have to fear, not terrorism. Terrorism is a sideshow, to distract us. The real threat is the indoctrination of the youth in school, so that they grow up to accept islam as a fact of life.
And we know the Left is behind this. The Left controls the school boards, just as they control the libraries, the media, the news, and the entertainment world.
Only a country tilted towards the Right can fight islam. All countries tilted left, will succumb, as is the plan. Islam is a threat that communism only dreamed it could be.
Posted by: August22 at October 10, 2006 10:57 PM
Five Pillars, Ten Commandments, Seven Deadly Sins and Three Dog Night
Posted by: hasan salami at October 10, 2006 11:05 PM
Hey teacher! I cut off my clitoris for extra credit.
[Isn't genital mutilation more of a regional thing versus Islamic?]
AND
a lawyer who argued a previous dispute over this issue to the U.S. Supreme Court said such methodologies wouldn't "last 10 seconds" if it were Christianity being taught.
"Would it have been 'just cultural education' if students were in simulated baptisms, wearing a crucifix, having taken the name of St. John and with praise banners saying 'Praise be to Jesus Christ' on classroom walls?" asked Edward White III, of the Thomas More Law Center.
__________________________________________
This is true. I am sure most of us have heard about the case of a war memorial being threatened because there was a cross displayed.
I had a friend who was told to stop reading his Bible at school. This was on his own personal time BEFORE classes even started!!!
A double standard. This is equivalent to teaching Nazism in American schools doing W.W.II.
It's one thing to read about Islam or to actually study it. It's another thing to pretend to be Islamic. I may study the history of Nazism in history class, but I don't go chanting Nazi slogans or stomping around in an S.S. uniform during W.W.II history. This must be stopped now!!!!!!!!!
at October 10, 2006 11:05 PM
Alaskan,
Looks to me like they need to worry less about teaching sensitivity and more about learning basic English. That "Educators Guide" was an embarrassment. Most of the mistakes were run-of-the-mill poor grammar (their for there, thee for the, etc.), but the line that "Islam is . . . a complete "way of life", that focuses and reviles [sic] around God" could get dangerous should any jihadis learn what "revile" means.
Posted by: CJ at October 10, 2006 11:09 PM
Ibrahim "Dougie" Hooper
National Spokesman of CAIR
"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future. But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, April 4, 1993)
Is this the type of education that Mr. Hooper has in mind???
Posted by: Monkeywho at October 10, 2006 11:11 PM
Susan L. Douglass is the name I was trying to recall. . .described in Paul Sperry's article "Look who's teaching Johnny" linked above in my previous comment.
Notice how she keeps her American moniker. Saudi-funded Islamic activists appear to have final say in shaping public-school lessons on religions. Ms. Douglass advised state education boards on curriculum standards dealing with world religion, and has helped train thousands of public school teachers on Islamic instruction. In effect, she is responsible for teaching millions of American children about Islam, experts say, while operating in relative obscurity.
Another name to add to this list:
Audrey Shabbas. She is the author of Arab World Studies Notebook. Ms. Shabbas attempted to rewrite the history of the Algonquin Indian origins to Islam.
After six months of protests from the Algonquins and only when confronted by Campus-Watch Shabbas conceded and wrote, "I bow to the knowledge of the Algonquin Nation about their own history," but posted on al-Jazeerah's website: Shabbas "questions the motives of those who censured the offending paragraph." She said, "The Arab World Studies Notebook is exactly what its meant to be, and no apologies need to be made for it." She also said, "What's interesting is the motive of the folks that brought this to the attention of the Algonquin Indians."
The Thomas B. Fordham Foundation study titled "The Stealth Curriculum: Manipulating America's History Teachers," concludes their review of the "Arab World Notebook":
"One can only wonder if this has ever been questioned by the teachers who use its materials, or if they feel they must agree to any claim made by Muslims as an 'alternative perspective' or risk being labeled insensitive, Eurocentric, or racist."
Controversy erupted over the 540-page book with claims that Muslim explorers preceded Christopher Columbus to North America, married into the Algonquin tribe, resulting in the births of tribal Chief Abdul-Rahim and Chief Abdallah Ibn Malik.
Director of the Algonquin Nation Secretariat, Peter DiGangi, called the book "preposterous" and "outlandish," saying nothing in the tribe's written or oral history support the claims.
Pure mohammedan propaganda.
DiGangi said the guide's author, Audrey Shabbas, and MEPC were unresponsive to his objections for six months until Shabbas said "the passage was removed immediately from subsequent copies," and that she was "giving careful and thoughtful attention" on how to notify the 1,200 teachers who have been given copies of the book in the past five years.
"There was no [scholarly] peer review," said Mr. DiGangi, who says he was never contacted after lodging his complaint. "It was so outlandish. It never should have gone to press."
Posted by: miira at October 10, 2006 11:12 PM
Alas, Islam's pillars are but three:
1-) Infidel.
2-)Bomb.
3-)Explosion.
All the others exist only on paper. By god, let's teach 'em the facts!
at October 10, 2006 11:34 PM
Another outfit that distributes books to public school libraries throughout the country is AMIDEAST, which calls itself a "private, nonprofit American organization." They are headquartered in Washington, DC. Karen Armstrong and John Esposito are two of their favorite authors, and they have books to accomodate every level, from Elementary to High School.
One particular book in their lovely little pamphlet of propaganda is entitled "Akbar", by Julia Marshall. "The third great Mughul emperor Akbar brought stability to the Indian subcontinent and its diverse population of Muslims and Hindus." How's that for real history?
Heroes From the East is a collection of revisionist history, eleven books, four of which were written by Julia Marshall. "Queen of Sheba" is described as: "This historic female heroine challenged the wisdom of Solomon, Hebrew King and prophet of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
These books have very colorful jackets with striking pictures, designed to appeal to children.
I found the teachers guides to be the most disturbing. There are guides on muslim holidays which include a calendar; strategies and structures for presenting world history; and an in-depth guide for teachers on how to present "objective, historically accurate instruction about islam and muslim society." But this one is the most appalling: "Teaching about Islam and Muslims in the Public School Classroom."
It would appear that our socialist, dysfunctional, totally corrupt public school system has added islam to the curricula, to compliment studies in moral relativity, political correctness, and the sanctity of diversity and multiculturalism. I have heard of children being expelled for bringing Bibles to school, teachers reprimanded for wishing their students "Merry Christmas", but now teachers are given a 113 page book instructing them on effective islamic indoctrination, including protocol for muslim holidays.
These books are dangerous because they completely sanitize islam and demonize Christianity and Western Civilization. The Elementary level books are the most insidious because they target the most vulnerable group. Our children are being indoctrinated in the very government schools that forbid all Christian or Jewish prayers and religious observances, and most of their parents don't even know it.
Posted by: Susanp at October 10, 2006 11:58 PM
I think everyone has a right to protest this program in public schools. If you are not allowed to mention Christianity then Islam should not be taught in any shape or form.
I saw some good ideas, especially that of using the school board. However, what you, as parents need to consider, is whether you are willing to get onto the school boards to ensure that this kind of program is not allowed in public schools.
Also, you are the ones who need to be able to infiltrate the departments of education, and wherever else to ensure that a balance in religious education is maintained everywhere. You need to stand up and tell those who refuse to allow Christian symbols that you are not going to accept their refusal any longer, and that they are in the minority, and they are the ones who must respect the majority.
You also need to become more cohesive as Christians. So long as you create artificial divisions you will continue to be seen as weak and divided.
The goal is to ensure that our countries are not overrun and that we do not end up as the slaves of very cruel masters. You can only achieve that goal by uniting with other Christians so that there is one united and common front against the jihadi enemy.
Posted by: Maggie4Life at October 10, 2006 11:59 PM
http://www.aclj.org/Contact.aspx
at October 11, 2006 12:11 AM
That they are doing this to children is especally sickening.
I pray that all these fifth columnists and traitors in our midst are brought to account for this type of treachery.
Even those on the left blinded in their own Godless dreamworlds have no excuses, having voluntarily rejected God.
All those responsible for this type of treason - those in the media, educationl institutions, government, wherever they are doing their filthy handywork - I hope they are exposed and treated with utmost prejudice comes the day of reckoning.
at October 11, 2006 12:13 AM
Sadly, the left has sold out America to anti-American groups in our school system. The left has lost their moral compass and intellectual integrity to educate and lead our children in the right direction.
Endorsement of a religion in the classroom is un-American and opposes the establishment clause. But American tax dollars continue to flow towards school districts that violate the rule of law and promote Islam while neglecting to allow other religions to have their own place in the classroom.
This is un-just and un-ethical.
It must be stopped.
Islam is tolerated in the classroom while Christianity and Judaism are kept at bay.
Favoritism and preferential treatment towards Islam will forment an anti-western and anti- Judeo-Christian culture in the future.
Posted by: Johnathan
at October 11, 2006 12:38 AM
Ooh I have an Evil Idea, if it is ok to teach Islam like that for Ramadan, the do the same for Christianity and Judaism for Christmas and Hanukkah,
I wonder if we would hear from Mr Hooper, if little Muslim school children were Playing Mary and Joseph and lighting a Menorah? ;-)
at October 11, 2006 12:48 AM
LOL Teach them to chant Hail KALI too. ;-)
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 11, 2006 12:49 AM
Susanp wrote: "These books are dangerous because they completely sanitize islam and demonize Christianity and Western Civilization."
How true Susanp! Good points made in your post.
These book must not be allowed to be taught in the American school system.
Posted by: Johnathan at October 11, 2006 1:01 AM
Why can't we just sue the school district and site the fairness doctrine that they have for talk radio conservatives?
Posted by: theblakester at October 11, 2006 1:47 AM
Well kids, here's our chance to comment:
I suggest we all take about 5 minutes and email Mr. Dan Grotting, the Superindentent at Nyssa at his work email address:
don.grotting@nyssa.k12.or.us
and ask him whether a) he similarly plans to have Christian or Jewish or Bhuddist or Shinto speakers in to discuss their religion, and when, or b) why the introduction to islamic speakers is not a blatant violation of church and state, or c) whether or not he realizes the significance of reciting islamic prayer, namely the shadada.
Do so politely, and forthrightly. Use his official titling:
804 Adrian Blvd
Nyssa, OR 97913
(541) 372-2275
(541) 372-2204 (Fax)
I at least presume the above is his work address: it's posted on his website, so if this is incorrect could someone post that?
This is public discourse. We are the public. Get discoursing.
Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at October 11, 2006 4:59 AM
How on earth can your society have a provision which separates Church from State and forbids praying and religious education in publically funded schools yet has curriculum which requires your children to act out the tenets of other religions? Someone said earlier in this thread that "the world has gone mad". Well, err, no other western country I know of has such a ridiculous double standard.
In Australia we allow certain amounts of religious activity in school we dont have this rigid separation of church and state idea that extends to worrying about people praying at school.
How can you let your judiciary betray you like this? Is this article in the MSM? Surely they would be interested in this too?
at October 11, 2006 6:20 AM
A double standard. This is equivalent to teaching Nazism in American schools doing W.W.II.
Just when I was beginning to think I'd seen it all, along comes this. It is worse than teaching Nazism in American or British schools during World War II, because as grotesquely evil as the Nazis were, they would still have kept a civilization going if they'd won World War II, unlike Islamists whose desire is to destroy Western civilization, and if they could topple the US and Western Europe, would then probably feel encouraged to turn on China.
I cannot help but think that we are going down that same path as the Byzantine Empire. As I read, back in the early 7th century, the Byzantine Empire was one of the superpowers of its day, perhaps the United States of 600 AD, but in 669, 674 and 717 AD Islamist warriors tried to take Constantinople - the beating heart of that empire, after first conquering large chunks of its territory - read it on http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=2756&HistoryID=ac59 and see what happened to that empire in the course of just a few decades. Like us, the Byzantines would have had their equivalent of the leftie peaceniks who were a similar destructive influence on their empire. And as I read from this piece by Ray Kraft on http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=545 three paragraphs stand out:
We can be defeatist peace-activists as anti-war types seem to be, and concede, surrender, to the Jihad, or we can do whatever it takes to win this war against them.
The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.
So, from a historical perspective, we have two choices - either to stand up to the Islamists and shape the future, or we follow our destructive PC course and succumb to the dark and evil forces of Islamic barbarianism and get consigned to the dustbin of history.
The choice is ours.
at October 11, 2006 6:57 AM
Hey, Teach, can I get extra credit? I strapped some dynamite onto my three-year-old and sent him over to the Jewish neighbors' place and pressed the button to blow them to smithereens while chanting Allaho Akbar. Ooops! He snatched some of granddad's bacon before going out! He's in Jahanum! Boohooohooohoohhooooo!
Posted by: Kepha at October 11, 2006 7:09 AM
School...church...state...jihad...and so it continues.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=17757
Posted by: HawkWatcher at October 11, 2006 7:41 AM
In my country (Greece) they have introduced the teaching of the turkish language in some schools (as a compulsory subject), and probably this will expand to all of the schools. So, we as descendants of the Ancient Greeks and Byzantines are going to learn the language of the fucking jihadists and ex-conquerors that caused us 400 years of slavery, and who knows why we should… Maybe some ill-minded people that govern this country are in the payroll of some UAE or Saudi Arabian rich jihadists, and they prepare the way for an Islamic occupied Greece. Well fuck all these traitors. Fuck jihad and all muslims, for they are uncivilized pigs (that’s why they eat pork, i.e. it would be cannibalism) which destructed far more advanced civilizations, that they couldn’t reach with their full-of-crap Koran book. We are under a BIG PLOT. Beware of your politician, for they are in the payroll of rich-jihadist-petroleum owners!!!!
Posted by: AllahIsDead at October 11, 2006 8:34 AM
Just try and get objectional(to parents) material
removed from a California USA classroom. You will meet recalcitrance, reluctance, even hostility at every level of school administration, from individual teachers, to the school board, and finally the State Board of Education. It wont take you long to realize that parents have no rights, and the teachers know more about teaching than you do. Thats why parent groups take the state schools to court over things.
If you can call it an 'educational' experience anything goes. And almost everything has been tried. From Porno to Islamic costume parties. I would be willing to bet that almost all of the screwy ideas, forced on the captive audience of school children in the US, has a leftist, liberal behind it.
Public schools (government schools), have taken over the raising of our children, and have 'arranged' things so that, even if you notice it and complain, nothing will be done, and the complainer will be made to feel like a second class citizen and a pest.
The only real answer to this is private schools or homeschooling. I prefer homeschooling. Even then, the state lays on requirements, but it's worth it.
at October 11, 2006 9:56 AM
You will meet recalcitrance, reluctance, even hostility at every level of school administration, from individual teachers, to the school board, and finally the State Board of Education.
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Which is why the political battle for the defence of the Nation must start with the Local School Board Elections. All the other local elections are
equally important it is from that pool candidates for higher offices emerge.
Cull the moonbats out while they are small and not deeply rooted weeds.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 11, 2006 10:28 AM
But you do have a point, in the duration it might be best to protect your own children with private or home schooling.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 11, 2006 10:29 AM
Dan...that is a great observation and right on the money.
Posted by: duh_swami at October 11, 2006 10:31 AM
@duh_swami not enough attention is paid to grassroots politics a house with a weak foundation is sure to collapse, We have abandoned this part of the political arena to activists who do not have the best interests of the Nation in mind.
I am not saying we can turn things around in a short time, it is going to be a generational struggle.
But then we did not get into this mess overnight.
It took a generation to almost destroy our educational system.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 11, 2006 10:36 AM
Spirit of 1683 and AllahIsDead both touch upon one of the root problems we face here - that of modern liberal ideology. If people believe in nothing, how can possibly hope to stand against those who not only believe, but are quite willing to kill, to sacrifice their own lives and even the lives of their children?
The infection of modern liberalism is a graver problem than Islam itself. The Muslims, despite all their taqqiyah and the like, are remarkably blunt about their objectives to anyone of average intelligence who cares to consider the issue seriously.
The gravest problem lies with the masses of indoctrinated, stupefied, western voters who have been taught to reject their own faith, culture, and nation in the name of "diversity" and the treasonous criminal ruling elite they enable. I urge everyone to read Fjordman's excellent essays on the making of Eurabia for a description of this repugnant ruling class.
The Marxist phrase "Diversity is our Strength", uttered by a supposedly conservative president in the wake of a Supreme Court decision permanently enshrining racial preferences, is no less odious than "Arbeit macht Frei." The ultimate goal of the idelogy behind both phrases is nothing short of genocidal.
A reader named Shewsbury at Lawrence Auster's blog gives us an oustanding concise description of the modern liberal ideology:
"Liberalism is a species of nihilism, the denial of meaning in anything outside the self. This explains why the liberal becomes so furious at any religious or patriotic claims upon him, or even any data or event (or rather, at being presented with any data or event) which makes it difficult for him to maintain his (anti-)philosophy. The cases you give are interesting examples of how the liberal simply sectors off vast areas of reality in order to maintain his cozy psychological stability, to make of his mind a kind of intellectual greenhouse.
Worse yet, from the same necessities of nihilism, the liberal instinctively sides with all destructive forces, whether they be atheism, sexual license, or revolutionary movements. But not mere dictators, who tend to retain at least the trappings of patriotism and traditional authority. The political force must have that destructive zing or it don’t mean a thing. The liberal is however instinctively attracted even to totalitarian regimes, whether Communist or Mahometan, which would mean the death of liberalism. So long as the political force promises the destruction of elements in his own society which he finds constricting precisely because they have profound meanings, he will find himself almost subconsciously but powerfully drawn to it. He can never do otherwise than almost tropistically side with the enemies of the West."
- Shrewsbury, at VFR, 9/14/06
Until those who hold the belief described so well by Shrewsbury are completely removed from power and influence - which they presently wield in every single institution of the west, be it financial, political, academic, the media, the arts - we will continually retreat before the advacing jihad.
at October 11, 2006 10:51 AM
Perhaps the school could re-enact, in keeping with the spirit of "cultural authenticity," floggings and beheadings in front of the multi-purpose hall after Friday prayers?
That might cut down on student lawlessness.
Posted by: DesertDawgN29 at October 11, 2006 10:53 AM
The govt. schools at it again. Wear your cross or wear your yamika(sp?) proudly. When you hear a muslim pig discussing pislam, make sure you express your beliefs. Fight fire with fire, the tongue is a sword.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at October 11, 2006 10:58 AM
Let's tone down the language: one can appreciate the imperative and the understandable emotion behind it, but ultimately it helps no one.
AllahIsDead: don't forget Sun Tzu.
Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at October 11, 2006 11:30 AM
In Indonesia, religion class is mandatory at school for all religions. The problem is that only funding is given for an Islamic teacher by the government for government schools. If there are students that are Christian, Catholic or Hindu or Buddhist at a government school, a religion teacher must be paid for by a church or temple. If no teacher is available then the Christians, Catholics, Buddhists or Hindus must attend Islamic religion class. This is the case in most schools in Indonesia outside of Bali, North Sulawesi, Nusa Tenggara Timur unless it's a private Christian or Catholic school.
Posted by: bigwhiteinfidel at October 11, 2006 11:55 AM
As Ann Coulter in her book pointed out public school is a indoctrination center for the left.
In public school, Islam is not the only thing that is being pushed in front of our kids. Do the study and formulate your own opinion.
In my house private school is the rule. Private schools are growing 13% faster then public schools, homeschooling is growing 26% faster. The level of academics is astouding when you compare the differences, oh and don't count on the media to share this information with you and if they do the will say public school is better.
Colleges are starting to get into the battle, siding on the side with public schools. They are restricting parts of private and homeschooling curriculum, even though the CAT's and SAT's for private and homeschooling students score drastically higher.
Look to your public schools to educate your student with: islam, lack of patriotism, early age sex, same sex sex, lack of respect for everything of authority or country, be dumbed down, drugged up, hate our police and military, have no knowledge of American history or holidays, pro-U.N., pro-Socialist, don't be an idividualist do what everyone else does, don't over achieve join the group, be anti-religous, and try and keep the teacher from having sex with your kid.
Go private school or home school. Don't complain about the Left and then send your kid into an environment that you would not put up with for yourself.
Posted by: alaskan1000 at October 11, 2006 1:11 PM
Dan K-
The “Pig Pen” would only be effective if the would-be attacker knew the pen was present and what it meant. More of a gag-gift obviously. Besides, if Jews are pigs, aren’t the suiciders in trouble already?
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August22-
Right and Left are not the same in every country but your message is clear.
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hasan salami-
“Five Pillars, Ten Commandments, Seven Deadly Sins and Three Dog Night”
How about “Three Mules for Sister Sarah?”
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Pythagoras-
“Islam's pillars are but three”
We need more modern-day Samsons to push those pillars over. (Judges 16:26-30)
-XRDC
at October 11, 2006 1:25 PM
They are trying to take over our country slowly but surely. They are even starting to vote in muslim congressmen. They get special privilages for all sorts of shit. What happened to the so called separation of church and state? This is a clear violation. What the fuck is wrong with out country. Are we going the way of dhimmi Europe?
I think so.
Posted by: Phximan at October 11, 2006 2:09 PM
Allahisdead: Are you forgetting the Urum and Karamanli Christians of pre-1918 Asia Minor, those Eastern Orthodox populations that spoke Turkish? You got an awful lot of them in the 1920's.
Further, it might be modern Greece's calling, as the land that preserves the tongue of Apostolos Ioannes and Agios Pavlos to be the launchpad for the evangelization of its eastern neighbor.
Religious advance need not be a one-way street.
Irini; from Kepha
Posted by: Kepha at October 11, 2006 5:11 PM
@XRDC
The “Pig Pen” would only be effective if the would-be attacker knew the pen was present and what it meant. More of a gag-gift obviously. Besides, if Jews are pigs, aren’t the suiciders in trouble already?
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It needs more exposure and a broader use base.
Think of it this way, Why are burglaries in England far more likely to occur in an occupied dwelling than in the US? Why have violent crime stats gone done in States with Right to Carry Laws?
Because the Criminal is not sure they won't get shot. Now in every case they do not know that the victim has a weapon.
But the fact that there are larger numbers of potential victims who might shoot back has an effect.
So what we need is to publise and spread the use of the Infidel Revenge Pen.
The only time a Muslim knows for SURE if an Infidel has one is when they do, or do not go to Paradise!
Do you feely LUCKY Punk????????????
rotflamo
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at October 11, 2006 6:23 PM
This could be an opportunity if played right. Have your kid document all the violence of jihad, the subjugation of women, and the destruction of art. Then, when he goes to class in Muslim dress, let him truly role-play being a Muslim.
First he calls all the girls "whores" who are not in hijab. Then he rips the posters off the walls shouting that Allah disapproves of art. When the teacher tries to stop him, he pulls out a large blade from under his robes, shouts "Allahu Akhbar" and threatens to behead her.
Of course your son will be arrested for destruction of property, bringing a weapon to school and (I love this one) "making terrorist threats"! But at the hearing, to which you invite the news media, present the documentation about Islam and have your lawyer point out that he was only following the instructions of the teacher. Then demand he get his extra credit!
Posted by: Provoslavni at October 12, 2006 4:34 PM
By having the children say these things, its possible for others to later claim that they had converted to Islam. Then when they go back to being secular or Christian, that can be claimed to be leaving Islam.
This may place the children at risk. That is a violation of due process of law. The school, which is part of the state, is putting the children at risk without parental consent.
Moreover, that this happens in a community can be used by terrorists to justify targeting the entire community. That can include the US. It can include the school. It could include other religious groups in the community.
All of these consequences show this is governemtn action that is a violation of due process of law. It puts a person at risk without due process of law. It denies them the right to exercise their religion.
Those children who go through this may fear to exercise their true religion. Thus the government has denied them their religion and right of freedom of religion. The government also constructively is aware of that.
The US president commented on the Sharia court in Afghanistan that condemned a man for converting to Christianity. This was public. This shows the government was aware of this issue already.
Because the community and other religious organizations are placed at risk by this, they have standing to seek an injunction and other legal and equitable relief. Since the US might be targeted for systematic conversion, any person in the US has standing to bring a suit in any jurisdiction and seek an injunction.
Since they could be subject to violence in any jurisdiction, any jurisdiction has competence to hear a suit seeking an injunction.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:10 PM
Anyone subject to this threat, can seek an order requiring the school to send a notice letter to each person so placed at risk, or to advertise to reach a wide audience.
A fatwa against the US could be issued to use WMD because of systematic conversion to other faiths.
The school should be required to send a letter to each parent and child notifying them they may be at risk if they exercise a religion other than Islam from persons in the community or while traveling in other countries.
Also, an injunction on immigration from people from countries that have such laws could be sought as equitable relief and mitigation of the danger. The school should have to pay all costs and damages, including any attack on the US based on this. Also
including the costs of defense of the US or of any organization or person. Any fatwa based on this should result in the school and all those involved paying the full costs.
The school should be required to post on its web page a warning to the community and all persons and organizations of the potential of risk to them from this and the potential limitations on their freedom from this risk, including those who might try to get the children to belong or assert other faiths or no faith.
The school should be required to take out ads in newspapers and on tv and radio warning of this. It should be required to pay costs and expenses of individuals and organizations whose risk goes up because of this.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:29 PM
Everything in the record can be used as part of common plan or method evidence. This includes all events since 633 or earlier. It includes the attempt to get the US Supreme Court to remove Muhammed from its frieze. It includes the WTC 1993 attack, 2001 attacks, and other attacks. It includes death threats, e.g. against the car dealer in Ohio.
CAIR and fund raisers can be questioned in this matter. So can university professors and others involved in this whole set of schemes.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:32 PM
CAIR and other organizations, professors, law firms who assisted, etc. can be required to post warnings on their web pages of this.
They could be required to being and end each public
speech or appearance on TV by warning about this.
An injunction could be sought that any attempt to get a person to convert to Islam must be first accompanied by a warning. There should be notice in writing obtained before attempting to convert.
The parents should get a notice in writing of these risks if the program is continued and must consent before hand.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:36 PM
Persons in prison, military, etc. An injuction can be sought in these cases for trying to get them to revert to Islam. Persons in prison in particular, should not be subjec to visits or an atmosphere of such pressure to revert to Islam.
They may be in prison for a long time. Prisons are violent. Those who later convert to another faith or no faith, then might be subject to attack.
This could also be used to get injunctions on prisoners from having written materials or visits relating to any religion or doctrine placing them at such risk. If even one prisoner converts to Christianity or another faith or no faith, then an injunction can be obtained to prevent the exercise of any faith or ideology or possession in prison of any written materials that advocates violence to that other prisoner.
Such literature in prison is a denial of due process of law to the prisoner who converts back to Christianity, another faith or no faith.
Same applies to military, military academies, etc.
Literature that teaches that for any country or that might justify attack on any country including the US should not be allowed on any US military installation, nor any service academy. This especially applies since all 3 services have access to WMD or anti WMD equipment.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:47 PM
An injunction on travel or immigration by those who hold these views and may try to convert others to them. Or who support such laws in any country.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 5:54 PM
As long as there exists countries in which the governments have such laws, any person being asked to revert to such a belief is subject to risk if they leave the US and travel there.
Thus an injunction can be obtained for any organization or activity subjecting a person to harm in such country if they exercise freedom of religion in the US to turn to another faith or no faith.
Any person asked to revert has standing to seek an injunction on all the above matters.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 12, 2006 6:21 PM
Let's tone down the language: one can appreciate the imperative and the understandable emotion behind it, but ultimately it helps no one. - Geoff
While some folks are worried of keeping the language toned down, there is a muslim "peace" rally where a few thousand jihadis are chanting for the your death. I wish I didn't have to speak the way I do, but right now its a matter of survival. I could care less if I offend a mo or any dhimmi that is afraid to speak up. The quote above sounds exactly like a response you would hear from a public school official. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. Its life or death my man. There are many fronts in this war, the public school curriculum happens to be one of them. We have learned how the followers of pigslam cannot handle insults. I am sure jihadis check these postings, this is your chance to speak out. It is too bad that the best way to wage war against this enemy, is to stoop down a few levels. As we can see, in this war against pislam, name-calling, drawing cartoons, and criticism works.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at October 13, 2006 9:35 AM
Comming soon to a school near you! Islam, Scientology, Evangelicalism, Jehovah's Witlesses, and many more. All with books to beat and agendas to push and minds to close, compliments of our Congress.
HR 2679 has passed the House, and looks like it will fly through the Senate. This bill overturns 1988 Federal Statute 42, authorizing awarding attorneys' compensation from loosing defendants for successfull challenges of the 'establishment of religion' clause.
Here is an op-ed piece on the bill, with a good explanation as to why this is BAD policy.
Posted by: Shakey_Premise at October 13, 2006 7:36 PM
"If you ain't mad, you ain't payin' attention!"
It applies here too. We all should be good and f**king mad!
americaningermany
I'm PISSED!!!! I'm glad to know others are too.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at October 16, 2006 10:56 AM
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