I think the signs should be taken down and new ones put up saying "Islam sucks!!" Now they can use the ransom to fund another attack.

Poor guy.

Posted by: Sti at October 12, 2006 11:46 PM

The Americans should be making plans now to gather up the Christians, or those who wish, and to offer them a safe haven in the north, guaranteed by the Kurdish state that should be created there, and that will be completely dependent upon American diplomatic and military support for its survival, so had better, in exchange, make sure it offers the Christians of Iraq an Assyro-Chaldean autonomous region to which, of course, other imperilled non-Muslims --whether Syrian Orthodox, as in the case of this latest victim, or Mandaeans, or Yazidis -- may be allowed to continue living in the Land of the Two Rivers. If they do not, then Syria and Lebanon should be open to them or parts of Judea and Samaria -- the so-called "West Bank" -- from which, of course, local Muslims, no different from Arab Muslims elsewhere, can be expelled to make room for Arabic-speaking, but non-Arab, Christians who might help support, by their presence, the Christian stake to the Holy Land which, if it is not retained by Israel, will fall to Muslims with all that that implies for the physical presence of Christians and for continued Christian access to the holy places, and for much else besides.

A thought: remove the Muslim Arabs, replace them with Middle Eastern Christians who do not identify with Uruba, Arabness, even if they may, out of necessity, use the Arabic language.

Posted by: Hugh at October 12, 2006 11:50 PM

A history of the Syriac Orthodox can be found at:

http://sor.cua.edu/Intro/index.html

an overview at:

http://sor.cua.edu/ChTod/index.html

a descriptor of the modern Patriarchate at:

http://sor.cua.edu/Patriarchate/index.html

and if you've followed any, or all, of those links you will have seen the site and can navigate further as you desire.

May God enfold the soul of Father Boulos Iskander and may light perpetual shine upon him.

Remember him in your prayers - yet another martyr in our struggle against the evil one and the faith of the beast that it engenders - islam.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 13, 2006 12:03 AM

"I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" Revelation 6:9-10

Father Boulos Iskander, now truly a martyr in heaven, intercede for us all. May God hear his prayers!

Posted by: Provoslavni at October 13, 2006 12:28 AM

Robert/

How about starting a list of the faithful fallen and of the martyrs in the cause - not Christian, not Hindu, nor Buddhist, nor Taoist, nor Animist, nor any other faith or creed - just a running memorial of those who have fallen by the wayside, naturally or by martyrdom, whilst fighting or inveighing against the jihad.

No great fuss need be made - just a separate page on this your site, perhaps.

This is only a suggestion, not a criticism or anything of that nature. However, if it were possible it could be a poignant and stark reminder to us all of exactly what we are fighting for and against.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 13, 2006 12:40 AM

"His arms and legs had been severed and arranged around his head, which rested on his chest."

Our fighting cause is once again made crystal clear by such savagery.

Posted by: alexon at October 13, 2006 12:52 AM

necessitasnonhabetlegem:

There is a website called:

Project Open book which is a list of the faithful Christian fallen. Unfortunately, it was last updated in November 2003. This site has not been updated in a long time but it does provide a small glimpse into the cruelty done by Muslims against Christians.
http://www.domini.org/openbook/

Posted by: Johnathan at October 13, 2006 1:39 AM

hmm... In 1622, alarmed at the population growth of the English settlers, the Natives went on a rampage kill 347 men, women and children. "Their carcassses, the dipsersed bones of their countryment...speak, proclaim and cry, This our earth is truly English, and therefore this Land is justly yours O English."

i think history is simply repeating itself. i mean, yea i'll say it- these muslim drivers are completely out of line with their "we don't want to carry booze crap" - 'we don't want to tote drunks' -word, i feel that- but when it comes to passangers - concentrate on the fare, that's why you are there... and about this whole driver turned up the radio blasting jihadist propaganda - instead of yelling and causing him to sulk why not say "this isn't helping your cause at all" - politely, assertively, humbly - that they might reflect upon their idiocy (because somewhere in side they knew it wasn't).

of the same accord - what are we doing all across the world "bringing freedom and democracy" (exporting the nation-state)? it is precipating acid upon already faulty ground. There are 3 religious factions who all claim owndership of a tract of land. 3 - a real fun number because it always seems to end as 2v1 (christians/jews v. islams, et al.) - which it now is - islam has been backed into a corner - but so has christianity/captialism (i refer to Thomas Jefferson's bible as impetus for the marriage - creating what will be regarded as an American Theology). America is built up on the ideas of egalitarian respect for a neighbor's liberty. meaning - i acknowledge you as an equal in all your actions - so long as you respect mine -

i guess in the end my thought is this... over the course of the next six months a poll ought be taken by ticket holders (meaning, show your ticket and answer a question - as to deter tampering, et al- ) As it seems possible to argue the muslims decision to adhere to a right to refuse policy - ought allow us to as well...

I feel the muslim perspective - alcohol- i'm more of a cannabis man myself - don't get me wrong, johnny's good for a walk around the block - especially after your wife has left you - though again, alki is alki - i at times find myself confounded when thinking that alc and nicotine are legal, while the only thing more addicting than nic is heroine... and well, drunkdrivers (nogood), drunkgirls = oopsies = regret, drunkguys = testoterone = oopsies = cops/ambulance/just generalshit. still, respect the fact that i just got my ass of a long goddamn flight, halfdepressed because i have to return to reality/the reality i left was incredible-never wanted to leave-but i bought this bottle of wine from the vineyard we visited, et al - romantic time - treasured adventure - a memory to remember- HOME- some guy is saying i can't get there because... wellyea, fuck him... homie RECOGNIZE... though please recognize their reasoning - lets make a poll/petition... or i'll work on it...

but seriously - shit is fucked up enough - we don't need more people actin' like children throwing more bullshit - whining. People seem to project themselves as better by recommending beligerent instigative actions (placing bacon grease on one's currency - the aesthetic is applaudable - but the rhetoric behind it - not needed - not progress, ya feel?) "How about starting a list of the faithful fallen and of the martyrs in the cause " I'd be scared it would become a point system - "we have more martyrs than you" etc... why not - people are dying - people are hella uneducated = equaling people are ignorant - lets admit it and start learning...

END- somalis - sshh - a)it's not helping; anyone. b)get over yourself. c)welcome to america - we the people demand liberty - its a two-way street. americans - think a)read better books and not just from one perspective or author - we all hold a truth - but the truth lies in the dialogue between our truths. b)get over yourself - by taking the refusal/these killings, as personal afronts to humanity - seek to understand their context - under your own culpability in the events that have placed us here - i will not spout conspiracies over 9/11 - but i will ask: are we better off? or simply more convicted than before? how do we quantify progress? c)welcome to america - between 25 to 52 million Natives got legally fucked/killed so you could breath here (to refute is like saying the holoucast never happened---and then your in... well it would be ironic i suppose)... we are a refugee nation... and it is beautiful... hhmm. sorry i chose not to proof this as it is late and i need to make sure i get up for work in the morning - i almost didn't today, oops- so yea.. sorry if any of it sucks as such... safetravels, thankyou for reading... ciao

Posted by: 01.apriori at October 13, 2006 2:24 AM

i exist at www.myspace.com/apriori for those interested in blaspheming, commenting or c'est le... i don't think people should be scared of what they think, and that people ought be embrace for their convictions and beliefs - they are living who they think the best possible version of human is... some are futher along in that path than others... but by denegrating and arguing - adding fuel, we seem to have moved no where but - suspension of habeas corpus- people on both sides still vehemently hate each other resulting from a lack of understanding and a respect... much of this has to do with the nature of economies, how economies have developed socially, historically, politically, legally, geographically... and i would think it a great boon to understand these events in context... as shit if fucked up no matter which way you want to discuss it... at the end of the day, i don't know what i'm doing... i'm a pup - runnin' in the wind... barkin' for a frisbee... peein' on trees... diggin for bones... dreaming... again, thankyou, safetravels, and happycrafting...peace

Posted by: 01.apriori at October 13, 2006 2:33 AM

"lack of understanding and a respect... much of this has to do with the nature of economies" nation-states, iraq, egypt, israel, iran, kahzikstan (spelling?meh), turkey, shiites, sunnis and kurds, mexicans, chiapas, brazil's poor, the list goes on... i'm sorry - this has all been a bit of a pain i would suppose - i... we are eternal//this world although not as it seems, is not without reason//as we breath between seeds and dying trees - so put your ear to the ground and listen - dissect what you witness - safetravels, thankyou

Posted by: 01.apriori at October 13, 2006 2:42 AM

sounds to me like they would better of doing what the jews did after ww2 when they did not have any modern arms and bought up german surplus with that 40 grand they could buy up enough surpluss from the former ussr to fight back

Posted by: islamakapigeaters at October 13, 2006 3:07 AM

It is hard to digest that such a horrible crime has been allowed to happen. I assume that the poor man refused to convert to Islam, for after the dhimmitude of his congregation it was probably expected that he, too would cave in to their demands.

Fr. Boulos is indeed a martyr. We should recognize his martyrdom immediately. He is a true martyr of God.

Loler, yes there is a God, but not one that is the perception of Muslims. Our God is Loving, Kindness, Compassionate, Forgiving and Righteous.

Posted by: Maggie4Life at October 13, 2006 3:26 AM

Hugh, I understand that many Iraqi Christians are refugees in Jordan and Syria.

What should be happening is that Churches in the West should be focused on helping co-religionists but ECUSA is so stuck on 1960s navel-gazing as to ignore suffering for Christ in favour of self-indulgent posturing.

It is time that Syria was rewarded for helping Christians and brought into some kind of alliance outside the Iranians. It is a minority Alawite regime with much to fear from Sunni Islam. It could be a cornerstone of a sound Middle East policy and benefit economically from having lots of Christians in its society.

Posted by: Voyager at October 13, 2006 4:16 AM

Im am truely upset by this report - however, it goes to show that appeasement doesn't work and - in the future - will only bring worse attrocities.

We all decried the Fox news journalists who so easily 'coverted' to Islam under duress, because they had no beliefs, and so easily gave in to the islamists.

I do see in this case a same attitude - randsom paid, posted displayed renouncing the non statement of the pope etc.

And whilst I have no more facts about this case than those presented here, I do think we who fight Islam do need to stand up to the Islamists, and it doesn't appear to have happened here.

So I feel sad that the priest died, and sad that the Syrian Church didn't appear to stand firm and honour God in their response - no appeasement, no posters, no buckling under duress.

CAVEATS:
//I dont know what I'd do in a similar situation

// I don't know the facts of the case, and they may well have not appeased as much as the report appears to suggest.

Posted by: mazztr at October 13, 2006 7:34 AM

Such arrogance... I can't believe they just beheaded a priest, and yet they still have the audacity to demand an apology from the Pope.

http://www.aina.org/news/20061012004656.htm

They also crucified a 14 year old boy. But of course, that's the Pope's fault and let's all put the blame on him.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at October 13, 2006 7:53 AM

The Syrian Orthodox Church is considered the seat of St. Peter. Peter had established the church at Antioch, Alexandria and Rome. Alexandria is turning into a thing of the past, with the Muslim Brotherhood having their way there. The church at Antioch is still funtioning and it has churches in Turkey, South india and the US. In fact, under Thomas of Canaan, a large group of Christians had fled to South India and since then, have flourished in a land where they were welcomed by the local Hindus.
Now, many of these Christians in Syria and India are settling down in the US and have churches all over. Look in the list of Churches at http://sor.cua.edu/ChMon/index.html and you will see a few famous ones. This also includes the famous St. Mark's monastery.

Today, the Syrian Church's existence is threatened by the situation in the Middle East. The church never had a lot of money and so it does not wield as much influence as the Roman Catholic Church. But theologically, the Church is very similar to the Greek Orthodox and Coptic churches. This was one of those churches which are not tainted by corrupt Patriarchs or administration, possibly because of the lesser influence in the world. But remember that this is the one church that still continues in the true tradition of Christ and his disciples and even today, uses litturgy in the Syriac/Aramaic language that Jesus used.

I humbly request that everyone in the West do their best to improve awareness of this humble sect which has produced great sainst like Bar Ebroyo, Bar Saumo and Mor Greeogorios. The Peshitto Bible is the work of the Holy Fathers of this Church.
Pray for them.

Posted by: Mohd Is Satan at October 13, 2006 10:50 AM

"What kind of animals would do this?" from a post above.

Animals don't do things like this. They kill out of fear, instinct, or the need for food. The only exception is when there is a physical sickness such as rabies... In tis case, Islam is the rabies of humanity.

Like a rabid animal, these sick murderers must be restrained. The US army can't do it. The new Iraqi "government" has no desire to do it. Only one political power has been able to control Iraq, protect non-Muslims and women, and restrain both the Shia and Sunni Islamists. That was Saddam Hussein and the Ba'athists. It is time the US admit its mistake, apologize profusely, then release Saddam, Tarik Aziz, Chemical Ali, et al, and put them back in power. Only then can there be peace in Iraq.

Posted by: Provoslavni at October 13, 2006 11:08 AM

Did anyone notice that the ransom was paid and the signs put up?? Wow. Pure evil.

Posted by: milleniumbugger2000 at October 13, 2006 1:01 PM

Provoslavni, I assume you're being ironic, but it still makes me grimace. Saddam should never be anyone's "hero" as you put it elsewhere; he's a sick twisted psychopath. BUT, he was a sick twisted psychopath to his own people and his (mostly Islamic) neighbors, not to Westerners. I can live with Muslims torturing and killing their own, but to praise Saddam? I like dark humor, but that's too much for my taste.

Posted by: special_guest at October 13, 2006 1:04 PM

milleniumbugger2000 said

Did anyone notice that the ransom was paid and the signs put up??

It's almost enough to make us realize that Muslims do not honor agreements made with us subhuman infidels. [Relax France and Germany, I said "almost".]

Posted by: special_guest at October 13, 2006 1:07 PM

"It is time the US admit its mistake, apologize profusely, then release Saddam, Tarik Aziz, Chemical Ali, et al, and put them back in power. Only then can there be peace in Iraq."

Provoslavni, that's disgusting. You Ba'athist agent or something?

Saddam was an insane brutal murderous dictator. His rule wasn't about keeping the peace, it was about his personal drive for power.

Taking him and his cronies out was the right thing to do. Expecting Democracy to just sort of flourish with a light push, despite the fact that Iran has an intense interest in the region and the capacity to send in agents to incite violence, and despite the fact that there are very deep ethnic conflicts, and despite the fact that the majority religion can be appealed to by proponents of alternative political systems, was not wise.

*That's* where the subset of problems for which we are responsible lie, not in removing the monster that gassed his own people and put the families of his political opponents in rape rooms.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at October 13, 2006 1:21 PM

"It is time the US admit its mistake, apologize profusely, then release Saddam, Tarik Aziz, Chemical Ali, et al, and put them back in power. Only then can there be peace in Iraq."

Provoslavni, that's disgusting. You Ba'athist agent or something?

Saddam was an insane brutal murderous dictator. His rule wasn't about keeping the peace, it was about his personal drive for power.

Taking him and his cronies out was the right thing to do. Expecting Democracy to just sort of flourish with a light push, despite the fact that Iran has an intense interest in the region and the capacity to send in agents to incite violence, and despite the fact that there are very deep ethnic conflicts, and despite the fact that the majority religion can be appealed to by proponents of alternative political systems, was not wise.

*That's* where the subset of problems for which we are responsible lie, not in removing the monster that gassed his own people and put the families of his political opponents in rape rooms.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at October 13, 2006 1:22 PM

"Saddam was an insane brutal murderous dictator. His rule wasn't about keeping the peace, it was about his personal drive for power." in response to my post above.

Yes, absolutely, he was a brutal murderous dictator. And that is what is needed to govern these Muslim savages! It is true that Saddam cared only about his own "personal drive for power" and NOT about Allah or Islam. That makes him far superior to the Islamists running free over Iraq now.

But Saddam was not insane. He understood that Islam was a threat to his secularist Ba'ath regime. For that reason he only trusted members of his own Tikriti tribe and the Christians like Aziz. That's why he protected Christians and Mandeans. Not because he liked them, but because it was to his advantage to keep this educated community working for him. Frankly, I don't care what his reasons were. Christians were protected under the Ba'ath and they are persecuted today. On that fact alone, I'll defemd Saddam.

Posted by: Provoslavni at October 13, 2006 3:32 PM

Sorry for the computer glitch. I just had a power surge and for some reason it kept blinking as I posted. I hope Hugh or Marisol will remove the redundant posts.

Posted by: Provoslavni at October 13, 2006 3:36 PM

Ishaq:464 “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.”

Those who killed the priest were following the example of the "perfect man".

Does anyone doubt who allah is? And I do not mean God.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 13, 2006 4:27 PM

"Yes, absolutely, he was a brutal murderous dictator. And that is what is needed to govern these Muslim savages!"

If they are that savage, better they murder themselves and waste the wealth of their foreign cohorts doing so, than that we prop up someone to "govern" them (and use his power to plot against us and our allies on the side). This idea about letting them fight it out is Hugh's suggestion, in another thread. It would reduce the brainwashed people intent on killing us, and the wealth that might enable them to do so.

If they are largely not that savage, if some or many of them a decent people or people on the fence, then they don't deserve a monster dictator, but rather a slow gradual push to a tight but relatively sane society, and then perhaps in the long term to a more modern one.

Something a bit more like China or Singapore in the short term, tough on radicals but having at least moderate stability economic opportunity for people who primarily want to feed their families, might have been possible had we planned well (taking into account that the lower levels of the Iraqi government apparatus would be useful in a transiton climate), as Iraq hadn't been one of the more fundamentalist Islamic cultures in the region at the time our troops entered.

Democracy could have been introduces at a low, local level, after a few years of stability under a saner, non-threatening to us and our allies, and more economically-promising authoritarian regime.

There are other ways this could have worked out. I'm not convinced that the mess in Iraq now was unavoidable but for propping up monsters like Saddam. With the mess now, Hugh's suggestion makes the most sense. Aside from our Democracy-cures-all ideologues and their lack of planning, I don't think it had to be this way.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at October 13, 2006 4:50 PM

Robert says,

"Will the Islamaphobia never end?"

That really makes me think...Islamaphobia...the new definition...when Muslims kill people to make other people really, really afraid.

So who is really responsible for creating and maintainiing Islamaphobia?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 13, 2006 5:57 PM

Mother E,

I never hear Mother Frances Stanislaus call anyone a shithead, but I'm sure you are right.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 13, 2006 7:12 PM

A TV personality said something a few years ago, before Iraq, that stuck with me. He said that countries get the leadership they deserve. Saddam was evil, but you can’t deny his leadership skills. The ability to confront your adversaries in an auditorium and calling them out one by one for execution takes organization and charisma that most people lack.

Having had the opportunity to watch his former constituents for the last few years, his leadership style becomes more understandable.

Posted by: limes at October 13, 2006 8:09 PM

i agree with provoslavni saddam was the best ruler in iraq he was against islam and i dont care about the barbaric kurds they are not the poor opressed victims as they make out to be they have masscred thousands of christians in iraq during the ottoman empire i am fed up with hearing about the poor opressed kurds they where worse then the sunni and shia arabs when it came to killing christians in iraq during ottoman empire

America made a big mistake in iraq they are losing the war and at the same time more christians in iraq are being driven out its time for american to leave iraq and admit they made a mistake put saddam back in power

Posted by: Greek Gurl at October 14, 2006 8:13 AM

Provoslavni does make a good point. Christians in Iraq had it much better under Saddam. Christians in the middle east have been oppressed by the muslim kurds and turks for centuries; the assyrians and armenians were slaughtered by them (yes, genocide), so in that sense, I like for Saddam protecting the Christians.

There's no doubt that he was a brutal and murderous dictator. Does that mean I want him back in power? I don't know, the US military isn't doing a good job down there (lots of people dying), and perhaps he was the most fit person to rule over these murdering scumbags who behead a priest and crucify a 14 year old boy.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at October 14, 2006 12:14 PM

Greek Gurl: "Saddam was evil, but you can’t deny his leadership skills. The ability to confront your adversaries in an auditorium and calling them out one by one for execution takes organization and charisma that most people lack."

EliasAlucard: "Provoslavni does make a good point. Christians in Iraq had it much better under Saddam. Christians in the middle east have been oppressed by the muslim kurds and turks for centuries; the assyrians and armenians were slaughtered by them (yes, genocide), so in that sense, I like for Saddam protecting the Christians."

Saddam was a threat to us and to our ally in the region (Israel). I also doubt that the Christians had it so great under Saddam (his threatening his neighbors leads to sanctions, leads to shortages of food and medicine), but I don't know for sure how bad it was, and I will readily grant that they have it *far* worse now. Still, all dictatorships have a period of instability, either when the dictator dies or when there is uncertainty over who will replace him. The Christians were likely to come to trouble when this eventually happened, and it would likely eventually happen in the context of perperual dictatorship.

It would have been nice, to say the least if the US had plans to prevent it or lessen it, once initiating a period of instability, though.

Saddam had to go to protect non-Muslims in other parts of the world. He was not a sane person who could be dealt with in other ways. He was intent serious weapons, despite UN resolutions prohibiting this (and he quite possibly had some already, which were moved to Syria).

We likely could have kepts the lower parts of the control apparatus, installed a saner person at the top and saner people in the top rung, willing (like Saddam) to take the measures necessary prevent the Islamic population from degenerating into Islam-inspired war-lord-ism, *and* willing (unlike Saddam) to work with the non-barbarian by ceasing to develop offensive weaponry, and slowly working to build a decent economy, and perhaps slowly working to introduce democracy on a low level as a means of reducing corruption in the bureaucracy. This sort of thing could have actually *benefited* the Christians in the country, as a dictator not threatening his neighbors means fewer sanctions, and more food and medicine.

If our leaders had taken into account the fact that the presence of Islam introduces political complications not present in success stories like Germany, Japan, and South Korea, this might have happened, and we'd quite possibly have been able to protect both ourselves and the Iraqi Christians, *better* than under Saddam.

They American leaders behind the Iraq fiasco are ideologues who were, and largely still are, unwilling to admit (a) that sometimes an ideology (like Islam) isn't inherently good even though it can claim to be a religion, (b) democracy and freedom are not instant cure-alls in every possible political situation, and (c) sometimes very slow, gradual change toward freedom, under a system that is largely authoritarian, can work (as we see happening in China), provided smart, sane people are in place in the autocracy.

Saddam wasn't the only option. Taking the focus off of options that were likely to keep *both* the non-Muslims in Iraq *and* the non-Muslims outside of it safe, is not to our benefit in terms of what lessons we come away with, to apply to future similar situations.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at October 14, 2006 2:09 PM

I'm not saying Saddam was a good leader. He was terrible. Iraq may not have had terrorists when Saddam ruled the country, but they had him, and he was indeed *the* terrorist.

All I'm saying is that the Iraqi Christians had it much better when Saddam ruled Iraq than they do now. My fear is that the Christians will be completely wiped out by muslim terrorist. They are a minority in iraq, they can't defend themselves from the muslims, and it doesn't seem like the US military is doing a good job in protecting them.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at October 14, 2006 3:02 PM

mrsmomomoto I agree saddam was evil and but i dont beleive he was a threat to us or isreal there was no evidence of wmds found in iraq so far.

but i think the christians in iraq should be given land for there own country and given lots of weapons to defend themselfs abvously the west has forgotton about the christians in iraq they only have sympathy for the kurds who are infact no better then the terrorist

Posted by: Greek Gurl at October 14, 2006 3:18 PM

The kurds killed the Armenians in the genocide 1915-23. They are muslims first and foremost, and anything else afterwards. I have no love lost for the kurds. They are just a tribe, just like shia, sunni, balooch, waziri, etc.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at October 14, 2006 3:35 PM

I agree with you Greek Gurl. The Christians in Iraq (assyrians mostly) should have their own land over there. It would be more than fair. Iraq originally belonged to the assyrians.

The kurds want independence (Kurdistan) and they have been killing assyrians and armenians in hope that they would achieve it, but Saddam, together with Syria, Iran, and Turkey held the kurds back.

I'm not defending what he did against the kurds. It was wrong. But I don't see the kurds as innocent victims either.

Either way I don't feel sorry for the kurds; what goes around comes around.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at October 14, 2006 3:39 PM