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For those who don't want to "go against Sharia." What will be next in their desire not to go against Sharia? By Joshua Freed for AP, with thanks to Recovering Pig:
MINNEAPOLIS - When Caribou Coffee went public last year, sharp-eyed investors noticed some unusual promises in its prospectus. Caribou, the nation's second-largest coffeehouse chain, said it would never sell pork or porn. It wouldn't charge or receive interest, either.By following financial rules that are part of the Islamic code called Shariah, Caribou is among a small but growing list of Western businesses looking to make themselves as attractive as possible to Muslim investors. Some, like Caribou, are motivated by principle, while others see Muslim investors as an attractive new source of money.
Middle Eastern investors flush with oil profits are looking for new places to invest, and American Muslims are looking to invest in a way that doesn't conflict with their faith....
Dow Jones has created an Islamic investing index. A Texas company issued almost $166 million in Shariah-compliant bonds to finance natural gas operations in the Gulf of Mexico. And the German state of Saxony-Anhalt issued a floating-rate 100-million euro note — managed by Citigroup — that followed Shariah rules.
Assets invested at two Shariah-compliant funds run by Saturna Capital in Bellingham, Wash. have swelled nearly 10-fold, since 2002 from $34 million in 2002 to $331 million now — though that's still tiny by mutual fund standards. The funds invest only in companies that are Shariah-compliant.
Islamic financial rules come from passages in the Quran that prohibit "riba" — making money from money. Generally, that means not paying or collecting interest, though some scholars say only abusively high interest rates are prohibited. Other prohibitions are more moral than financial, such as a ban on selling pork.
While many Muslims have invested conventionally in the West for years, some did so because they had few alternatives.
Moazzam Ahmed, a software engineer from Carrollton, Texas, has no car loans. Credit-card charges go on a zero-percent card or get paid off at the end of every month. And he's got a home mortgage that is a lease-buyback arrangement, rather than an interest-bearing loan, a frequent arrangement among Muslims looking to buy homes while obeying Shariah.
But he fretted about his conventional retirement investments until four years ago, when he discovered the Saturna funds.
"As soon as I found out about it I switched everything to it," he said. "I would have loved to do it from Day One, but it wasn't available, or at least I didn't know about it," he said. He said his returns have been as good as, or better than, more conventional investments he could have made.
Estimates of the number of Muslims in the United States vary from two million to six million.
Eric Meyer, who runs a Connecticut-based hedge fund called Shariah Capital, says Western banks and financial institutions need to have Shariah-compliant products or risk losing market share.
"There is a younger generation of Muslims who grew up during the last 20 to 30 years that have a reawakened sense of nationalism and religious pride that motivates them to invest according to their faith," he said....
To build its index, Dow Jones in 1999 hired six Shariah scholars to set standards to screen companies. Out of 5,000, Dow Jones found 1,800 that met its standards, including drugmakers Merck & Co. and Pfizer Inc., BP PLC, Microsoft Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co., and IBM Corp.
"I don't think that many of them know about Shariah-compliant investing, frankly speaking," said Rushdi Siddiqui, Dow Jones' director of Islamic market indexes.
Dow Jones now has over 60 Islamic indexes that track Shariah-compliant stocks and bonds. Siddiqui said about 30 firms have licensed the indexes, and about $5.5 billion in investments are managed in line with the indexes....
In fact, the wide range of what counts as Shariah-compliant can be frustrating for businesses that want to raise money that way. Investment firms retain councils of Islamic scholars who determine whether a transaction complies with their interpretation of the rules, adding an extra layer of complexity to already complicated deals.
But some investors appreciate companies willing to do so.
Shirin Elkoshairi, who works for a technology company and lives in Ashland, Va., said he is getting ready to switch his investments over to a Shariah-compliant mutual fund. He already has a Shariah-compliant mortgage.
"At the end of the day, you know you're living in a house and you can actually put your head down at night and not feel bad for going against Islamic shariah," he said.
But every time an adulterer isn't stoned and a thief goes with his hand unamputated, it is clear that there is still more work to do to ensure that all adherents of Sharia can sleep soundly.
Posted by Robert at October 14, 2006 7:57 AM
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Geez...it's nice to see that companies are going pro-Islamic. Is there going to be a Jihadist Members Rewards Card coming soon?
Posted by: Monkeywho![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 14, 2006 8:16 AM
If I wanted my marriage to be sharia compliant, would it be compulsory to 'beat my wife lightly' or just recomended?
Thanks for the hat-tip Robert
Posted by: RecoveringPig at October 14, 2006 8:31 AM
It's very good that you are posting an article about this situation, Robert.
I've been noticing articles here and there in newspapers financial sections regarding Shariah-compliant mortgages, etc., over the last couple of years. But that's piecemeal information. I don't think there's anyone taking a critical look at the overall phenomenon.
More scary stuff; decay from within.
Posted by: Vee at October 14, 2006 8:37 AM
While I don’t think Capitalism will change their violent religion nor change their core beliefs this is not necessarily a bad thing. They will hopefully think twice before targeting a neighborhood in which they have business interests. Most of us do not spend enough money in funds to have an impact on muslim investing. You can have an impact on other muslim businesses though.
I admit I normally steer clear of muslim owned businesses out of principal but because of the northern cap flab I have started a new tactic. Last night (Friday is the muslim holy day) I went into a muslim owned convenience store and purchased a six pack, a girly mag and was very careful to wink at the cute little muslima behind the counter and loudly say “thanks sweetheart, you’re a doll”.
So what do I get out of these stunts? Simple, I am profiling. How many are true muslims and how many are name only muslims? One way to find out is to watch the response when you do something to offend one (although buying things for sale in the store should not offend anyone). I will probably go back to that store (every Friday) as it is on the way home and although I will probably never spend more than a few bucks. I will go back simply because the girl behind the counter looked horrified at having to pick up the beer and scan it. The girly mag almost put her into shock and the infidel calling her “sweetheart” was icing on the cake.
Magainizne a few bucks
Beer 14 bucks
Watching muslima get pissed at having to do her job = priceless
Don’t fear these people, live your lives as you always have, they should conform, not you. If you want to spend money in a muslim owned company or invest in one, go for it but change yourselves for no one. Having done things like this for a while now, I have met many muslims who hate their religion (they will not say so out loud) many are very Pro American and are here to live as we do. The trouble is you don’t know who is lying or which ones will raise a second-generation jihadi. That leaves you with two main choices, deal with them on a professional level or simply avoid them. I don’t like one size fits all rule sets so I encourage you all to treat each one as an individual, many are afraid to leave islam because of the penalties. They don’t fear the death penalty (at least yet) here in the US but they do fear being branded as outcasts in their communities.
Interaction with them can work both ways, some will learn the truth, that we really are a great people and live a life style envied the world over and others will continue with their plans to dominate us.
at October 14, 2006 8:42 AM
In my youth, I did a short stint in prison and we used to sell sharia compilant pork chops. You see, on pork chop day, the moolies (as we called them at the time)could not eat the pork chops in the chow hall in front of their brothers so we saved them up and sold them undercover for $2 apiece. Same goes for ice cream. There was widespread belief that ice cream was made from pork products and yhey couldn,t eat that either. Turned out to be easy money and more for us infidels.
Posted by: RecoveringPig at October 14, 2006 8:45 AM
RecoveringPig,
They do tend to be two faced. When I was on active duty we kept porn for use as trading material with muslim officers. In Bosnia, the Bosniacks (muslims) actually sell porn from little road side sides, although the do not display it.
at October 14, 2006 8:52 AM
Mother E,
Thank you for your concern but I have been around muslims for most of my adult life and have no fear of them, peaceful or not. The most that would happen here in Tampa is them swapping clerks when I come in or they might stop selling beer and girly mags. They are not strong enough here to threaten anyone nor would they want to bring that type of attention to themselves. Tampa’s muslims are still in the building quietly mode.
As far as this concern, “The Scum will take note of your regularity and will also ORDER the young woman to be pleasant to you”.
Although, I think I am a good looking guy (lol) there is also no chance of the girl being of any interest to me.
All, I did was buy things from their store, what is the problem with that?
at October 14, 2006 9:36 AM
Interest-free loans. Lease-buyback. What an excellent idea. How can I exploit their system to my best advantage, possibly damaging it along the way?
Profit Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at October 14, 2006 10:07 AM
Hey, an interest free mortgage??
I need to get with my neighbor who has a bunch of houses and see if we can get one of those loans.
Yes the use of interest free money is good. It will eventually drain the coffers. I can just see a really successful business operated my a bunch of Immans. I would just like to have them on board in my business!!!!!!!!(NOT)
In a macro view, you can see how this all works. Islam is a way to the poorhouse.
Ronin & Recovering Pig.
You have been up close and personal with Islam. Have the Muslim's you have met seemed to be going anywhere in life or are they just hanging arouund to get dead?
God willing, of course.
at October 14, 2006 11:22 AM
nariz, i think the boycott is the best way.
If I will ever go to USA, Caribu is one of the things i will boycott
Posted by: StillFedUp at October 14, 2006 11:31 AM
Investment firms retain councils of Islamic scholars who determine whether a transaction complies with their interpretation of the rules, adding an extra layer of complexity to already complicated deals.
This is most troubling. The occasional jihad terror war mass murder --- say, detonation of a dirty bomb in a major American city resulting in 125,000 dead --- would certainly disrupt the world economy. But, the Financial Sharia being quietly imposed on us right now wouldn’t see Moslems disrupting the economy, it would see Moslems owning strategic chunks of the company.
Imagine that, prestigious SEC-regulated Wall Street firms taking orders from panels of hairy scowling reprobates who proclaim world takeover by extortion, blackmail, abrogation of contracts, and mass murder, or at least the constant threat of it.
We’ve already seen in Caribou what these insidious Financial Jihadis do when they gain control of a company, imagine what they’ll do when they gain a chokehold on an entire market. They won’t be as kind, or as incompetent, as the great Bill Gates when that time comes.
610 * 623 * 732 * 1066 * 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
Too bad we have no smart true Americans on Capitol Hill. Ok, one. Tom Tancredo. But we need the craven robots in the House & the pompous asses in the Senate to pass a law banning Financial Sharia.
But they won’t, cuz they can’t, not even if they wanted to.
Too bad about that danged Islam Fictive Reality thing.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at October 14, 2006 11:52 AM
wouldn’t see Moslems disrupting the economy, it would see Moslems owning strategic chunks of the company.
Shoulda typed "chunks of the economy." Damn.
at October 14, 2006 11:53 AM
Typically these mahomettan finance systems do not call it interest, but the effect is surprisingly the same.. There is no free money..
Posted by: lonewolf at October 14, 2006 12:46 PM
credit man,
As I understand modern Islamic "interest-free" loans, they are technically interest free, but in reality they do pay interest.
I believe they work like this. Say, a Muslim wants to buy a car for $20,000. The bank will purchase the car, then resell the car to the Muslim for, say, $24,000 with 0% interest. All the purchaser needs to do is pay off the loan. So this avoids the technicality of paying interest, while still allowing the bank to make money.
You don't actually get to borrow the money for free.
Posted by: non-redneck at October 14, 2006 1:10 PM
From several years ago,
Woman Fired For Eating 'Unclean' Meat
http://www.local6.com/money/3614199/detail.html
This is a preview of Islamic law in action. The women mentioned wasn't even a Muslim.
Posted by: non-redneck at October 14, 2006 1:14 PM
"You see, on pork chop day, the moolies (as we called them at the time)could not eat the pork chops in the chow hall in front of their brothers so we saved them up and sold them undercover for $2 apiece. Same goes for ice cream. There was widespread belief that ice cream was made from pork products and yhey couldn,t eat that either. Turned out to be easy money and more for us infidels."
The really hilarious thing is the apparent origin of the pork taboo.
In Ancient Egypt, pork was very much liked, a popular meat. However, given sanitation issues surrounding pigs, it was also considered dangerous. You could die from the stuff. So eating it was somewhat taboo, but done anyway because people liked the stuff. There were also some disease risks for pig farmers, who were therefore considered somewhat unclean, but there was money to be made in it, so the industry remained.
From this apparently evolved the religious taboos against pork on order of God, instead of just on health risk. (Some priesthoods in Ancient Egypt abstained from pork IIRC, this might have has something to do with the transition).
And from this, we've now got one billion people supposedly-avoiding pork on purely religious grounds, despite the fact that modern farming methods reduce the relative health risk of eating pork to, well, not different from eating beef or mutton.
Posted by: mrsmomomoto at October 14, 2006 2:28 PM
"Hmmm, "Sharia"(or religion) is not the first or only source of "anti-usury" thought."
On the same general topic as my previous post, there's a prohibition on usury in the Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead. You have to claim that you never did it, to get into the afterlife
Also, this prohibition existed for Christians in Europe in the Middle Ages, of course.
Would be interesting to track the history of this prohibition. I can't imagine that both of the religions that arose in the midst of the major trading partners with Ancient Egypt (Arabs caravan merchants on the one hand, and Greek seafaring merchants on the other) just purely coincidently developed this identical financial constraint. It is possible that Islam adopted it from the early Christians, but the fact that it persisted in the culture despite the strong economic pressures against it suggests it may have merely reinforced a prohibition already existing in Arab financial culture.
Anyone here with references to more info on this?
PS: There's a very nice alternative to Caribu Coffee. You may have heard of it. It's called Starbucks.
at October 14, 2006 2:42 PM
Boycott Caribou Coffee, Support Starbucks!
Posted by: Alert at October 14, 2006 3:09 PM
VINCENT:
Sausages taste good. Pork chops taste good.
at October 14, 2006 3:15 PM
The prohibition on usury predates Christianity. It is Jewish, and you will find it amongst the precepts listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
It does not say that you cannot charge interest, but that the interest is not to be extortion. Perhaps one can get a good understanding from Shakespeare's "Merchant of Venice", since the charging of interest was one of the issues in the play that pointed up the hypocrisy.
Also keep in mind that the low or no interest only applies to Muslims and Jihadists.
Posted by: Maggie4Life at October 14, 2006 5:20 PM
non-redneck and credit man
I believe non-redneck is correct. I heard a radio program some while ago explaining how the Mohamamedan mortgage worked. Instead of the bank paying interest, it buys the property and then rents it to the client, at an inflated rent, until the full purchase sum is paid off. It actualy works out that the client pays the same amount as if they had taken out a normal fixed-rate mortgage.
I thought at the time (and still think) that it's a bit like saying "My religion forbids multiplication, so I can't do 2 x 3 = 6. Instead I have to use addition, and say 2 + 2 + 2 = 6."
Just plain daft, really.
Posted by: Aardvark at October 14, 2006 7:25 PM
So what do I get out of these stunts? Simple, I am profiling. How many are true muslims and how many are name only muslims?Isn't a supposedly Muslim-owned store that sells beer by definition "in name only"? Posted by: aynrandgirl
at October 14, 2006 10:22 PM
The most that would happen here in Tampa is them swapping clerks when I come in or they might stop selling beer and girly mags. They are not strong enough here to threaten anyone nor would they want to bring that type of attention to themselves.A few weeks ago I heard a radio interview on one of the Tampa talk-radio stations with the Tampa-area head of CAIR. His hatred of Jews was poorly concealed to anybody paying attention, and the interviewer was having a lot of fun exposing his hateful screed. You could hear that the CAIR spokesman was trying mightily to conceal his rage at being questioned by a mere infidel, and if the interview had gone on a few minutes longer I suspect he would have hung up on the interviewer. Posted by: aynrandgirl
at October 14, 2006 10:31 PM
Isn't a supposedly Muslim-owned store that sells beer by definition "in name only"? Posted by: aynrandgirl
they could be name only or one verse from snapping, hince the test.
Posted by: Ronin at October 14, 2006 10:32 PM
I've been drinking Starbucks since I heard about Caribou a while back.
Hey! If we all boycott Caribou...could we say...they're de-kafur-nated?? ;)
Posted by: GoldieLox at October 14, 2006 10:43 PM
If I ran a company I wouldn't want any blood money invested into it by Islamaniacs. Shame on those companies that accept such money. Maybe it's time to do to them what was done to companies in the 1980's that invested in South Africa-shame them into not accepting such dirty money. If Muslims want to invest their money, let them invest in a company owned by them that caters to them.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 15, 2006 1:39 AM
De-kafur-nated?
Goldielox, girl, that was good!
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 15, 2006 2:24 AM
Time for a bratwurst and a beer!
Posted by: MP at October 16, 2006 2:07 PM
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