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It is good to know that Congress still holds some who are not dhimmis. Florida Congresswoman Brown-Waite has written a marvelous letter to CAIR bullyboy Ahmed Bedier (whose love notes to me you can read here and here), refusing his demand that she condemn Hernando County Commissioner Tom Hogan and his wife, Mary Ann, for calling Islam a “hateful, frightening religion.”
Summary from the St. Petersburg Times here (all links thanks to Sugarquub). More details here. And here is a pdf of Brown-Waite's letter.
Some choice excerpts from it:
Mr. and Mrs. Hogan have shown tremendous fortitude by resisting the pressures of your group to retract their statements. I am sorry that Jeb Bush and Carol Jean Jordan from the Republican Party were so quick to also forget that we have freedom of speech and that the Hogans were made to feel that they are the ones who were in the wrong. The Hogans have a right to their opinion just as you have a right to yours. Mrs. Hogan expressed in her statements the views of many of my constituents, and while they do not encourage harmony in the community, they should demonstrate to you how many United States citizens perceive your faith. Your area of concern should not be focused on the statements of the Hogans, but rather upon the actions of many in your community who created these beliefs....You may recall our meeting on May 29, 2004, when I met with you and other members of your organization...You should also remember that I was invited over to the home of a prominent doctor in Hernando County to allegedly "have some tea and see how his children were doing." Imagine how surprised I was upon entering the home to find a group of eight or more men sitting in a semicircle preparing to have a discussion with me. It certainly was not the casual social event I was invited to, but not being the type to shy away from a healthy discussion, I joined in and listened.
It was suggested to me that the group needed a Member of Congress who would be sympathetic to the CAIR-Muslim view....
When it became apparent to you that I was not willing to champion your cause in Washington, you Mr. Bedier, made the following statement, which was so outrageous I remember it almost verbatim. You told me that you had done research on me and found that I was Catholic and then went on to say, "Catholic priests pose more of a terrorism threat by having sex with young altar boys than those who flew the planes into the World Trade Center." I found the statement so bizarre that I asked you to repeat it and, without hesitation, you did. It was at this point that I stood up and told you that the meeting was over. I also pointed out the fact that the Catholic priests did not kill 3,000 innocent people, and that we knew where the guilty priests were located and they were not hiding in caves. I then left...
I suggest you not only review the U.S. Constitution but also the Florida Constitution and statutes.
Mr. Bedier, in closing, I know many fine Muslims who would be well served by your resignation from the local CAIR office. Your militancy and manipulation of facts does not serve them well.
In this post I took issue with the Hogans on points of Islamic theology, as well as strategy. Those remarks were correct as far as they went, but on reading Congresswoman Brown-Waite's reply to Bedier I don't think they go very far. Her approach is vastly superior, and I'm sorry I missed the initial opportunity the Hogans' remarks presented to stand up more strongly for freedom of speech -- and against CAIR intimidation. Apologies to the Hogans, and kudos to Congresswoman Brown-Waite.
Posted by Robert at November 11, 2006 9:28 AM
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I wish all politicians show such courage as him.
I will remember this congresswoman next time she runs for office so I can vote for her.
She got just tip of the ice berg of islamic hate that is a part of these people. If she wasn't there, they would be discussing all the hate infested issues including their plans to remake america into an islamic hell hole. Their plans for the jews and other infidals, their plans to subject everyone to sharia laws.
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at November 11, 2006 10:11 AM
Sorry, I meant to say her instead of him. in previous post.
Posted by: desidude at November 11, 2006 10:12 AM
I tried to send an e-mail of encouragement through her website and other congressional websites but none of these links will allow people from outside the disrict to send. That's a real problem. I did not try to use a phoney zip code.
I spent an hour looking but gave up in disgust.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 11, 2006 11:39 AM
Praise be upon her! But with that attitude I doubt she'll win her next election. A pity, because in these trying times we need a lot of politicians just like her.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 11, 2006 11:51 AM
Your area of concern should not be focused on the statements of the Hogans, but rather upon the actions of many in your community who created these beliefs....
Wrong. Moslems should be focused on apologizing to civilized people everywhere for Islam, for what an awful thing Islam is, and for their felony crimes of practicing such a shameful thing. A sampler:
I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose me and Mohammed.
--- the low life crapulous punk Allah making routine death threats in Koran 8:12
at November 11, 2006 11:55 AM
At this stage, given how thin the criticism of Islam has been, I'd support any criticism, even if it doesn't pass the nuance test. It's okay to correct and reinforce their arguments in subsequent follow-up discussions, but not in their opening salvos, when they first muster the courage to launch their criticism. If someone condemned the Nazis for killing 7m Jews, would you instantly contradict him, saying that instead 6m Jews were killed, or would you first endorse the condemnation in itself, and then go about correcting those facts? Let's support the criticism first, and refine any inaccuracies later.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 11, 2006 12:14 PM
Miss Ginny, you go girl.
More WWBs (Women With Balls.) Only in America, folks. I love it!
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 11, 2006 12:16 PM
More politicians like him and we will win this war.
---
Please take time today to remember the allied troops of the past who gave their life to protect our freedoms. God bless them all.
at November 11, 2006 12:22 PM
Notice she was given the impression that she was going to a meeting to meet one person the doctor and to see how his children were doing and finding eight or more men there.She was ambush and one of the reasons for eight or more men to be there was to intimidate her.
Posted by: RED at November 11, 2006 1:03 PM
Nothing may come of it but I sent the letter by Congresswoman Brown-waite to the Bill O'Reilly show along with the lead comments from Robert Spencer.
Posted by: Mackie at November 11, 2006 1:17 PM
CAIR - 1, FREE SPEECH - 0
Islamonazi CAIR Intimidates Yet Another American Business In Dhimmitude
http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/videos/MS092506.php - MSNBC video
Free Patriotic Corner Banners: http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/cb/
at November 11, 2006 1:28 PM
Let's support the criticism first, and refine any inaccuracies later.
Criticism well taken, Pride.
But, until we break through to the ultimate problem, Islam's central tenets, the disturbing fact that Islam is an evil thing in its essence, we cannot gird our own defense.
No more dilly-dallying. Osam called the Jihad in his '96 fatwa, let us identify our enemy and walk to the street corner and rumble.
Sooner or later. Better sooner. Unavoidable. Inexorable. I'm ready to fight. You?
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 11, 2006 1:43 PM
It seems that was Cair using taqiyya (again) to get their way in getting an elected official to a meeting. Maybe I could get my Congressman to come over for a meeting by saying I have a new puppy? Oops, I suck at lying, I actually have a new pup! and no political agenda. Why did she go to that meeting? That makes no political sense initially unless the guy is a big wig and she new him?
Reading the Hogan's letters I just wish those who whould speak out publically (like our Mr. Spencer does so well) would do so in an intelligent and cogent manner! Mrs. Hogan, while I agree with everything she said came off as ignorant and illiterate. The congresswoman did very well, to bad Gov'na Bush was a dhimmi!
at November 11, 2006 1:51 PM
Please take time today to remember the allied troops of the past who gave their life to protect our freedoms. God bless them all.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 11, 2006 12:22 PM
Yes-how many people remember that today is the 88th anniversary of the end of the worst war in history up to that point? The consequences of that war are still felt today in the Palestine and Mesopotamia of 1918 even if they are now well known by different names.
Sometimes I wonder if all those who died for freedom since at least 1914 have died in vain considering the mess we have today. Would the world be in that much worse shape had Germany won WW1? Look at the sacrifices made during WW2 alone-Nazism was defeated and yet now the victors act like idiots while an equally monstrous ideaology tries to destroy us all. What would all those dead veterans have to say to us about the stupidity of today's Western world? They'd probably be disappointed at us at the very least and I for one would not blame them.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 11, 2006 2:24 PM
The scene that the congresswoman revealed is very interesting. Please take the time to read again what she had to say to CAIR and to the bully boy Bedier.
Take note, she said that Bedier had done a background search on her. He knew that she was a Catholic. He thought that bringing up the issue of a few priests molesting altar boys or other children was going to make her cringe and keel over. He likened the scandal of these few priests to causing the deaths of 3000 people (not all were Americans, for several Australians, Brits, and yes Muslims died or were injured). He thought that by pulling this card that she would become their willing accomplice in the Congress.
If Bedier did this to this congresswoman, then how many others were approached? How many other members of the Congress have rolled over because Bedier or another member of CAIR did a background check and found some dirt? How many others have been tricked into an unexpected and intimidatory meeting, only to discover that they were being asked to do the dirty work for CAIR in the Congress?
If this has happened in Florida, where else has this kind of thing happened?
Here in Australia, our very own Bronwyn Bishop had a run in with a scarf-head when she likened the wearing of the scarf to slavery. The scarf-head got very upset claiming that she had freedom, but the young madam could not comprehend that Mrs. Bishop was expressing what a lot of Australians think and feel. There is a continuing trend here in Australia for politicians to be quite firm in their approach to the Muslims, and to not let them get away with their taqiyya. The Muslims are not getting everything their own way, and suddenly they realise that they are the ones who have to negotiate. Now compare that situation in the USA and the UK, France, Germany and elsewhere, where the politicians have rolled over and played dead, instead of standing their ground and telling the Muslims to either shut up or get out of the country.
Jeb Bush was guilty of backing away from some very serious issues. I wonder why he became so yellow. What do others have over him? Why was he in such a hurry to demand that the Hogans give an apology? The fear of offending these bullies is indeed offending many others who were his constituents.
Posted by: Maggie4Life at November 11, 2006 3:05 PM
While the fact that Republican Governor Jeb Bush was PC (condemning the anti-Muslim letter), while Republican Congresswoman Brown-Waite was rationally anti-PC, shows that PC has infected the Republican party -- nevertheless, it is highly doubtful that any Democrat anywhere would have stood up like Brown-Waite did. Hence, one can conclude that there is somewhat more rationality present on the Right than on the Left.
Posted by: remote_control at November 11, 2006 3:22 PM
Wow. Thank you for posting this.
Posted by: Josephine at November 11, 2006 3:23 PM
Well I'll be damned, Imabedwetter got owned again.
Posted by: EliasAlucard at November 11, 2006 3:32 PM
Maggie,
Jeb Bush was forced, by the content of Mrs. Hogan's letter, to distance himself from her.
In the process of excercising her right to freedom of speech, she expressed an erroneous belief that, as Robert noted, fatally weakened the point she was trying to make.
Unfortunately, the congresswoman made a similarly erroneous argument, too; which one of her local TV stations tried to exploit (see video link below):
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=41521&theType=NB
Posted by: PRCS at November 11, 2006 3:44 PM
I wrote Jed an excoriation For his treatment of the Hogan's I'll never vote for a Bush again
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at November 11, 2006 3:55 PM
sami al arian boasted (after the 2000 election of George Bush) that he and the ummah delivered the president's office to him. This was when the muslim brotherhood thought they could align with the republicans on family values and make in-roads in the party. It could have worked but along came 9/11. The brotherhood will ally with anyone to serve their needs.
The Bush family is not conservative but belong to the liberal branch of the republican party that is almost indistinguishable from the old liberal democrats. They are firm friends and allies with the saudi princes. They are politically correct and tied tightly to $$$ from oil. They are ignorant and refuse to educate themselves. They will take no action that means losing votes and thus, losing their job.
Posted by: the poetess at November 11, 2006 4:03 PM
And congratulations, Congresswoman, you are a courageous woman.
Posted by: the poetess at November 11, 2006 4:03 PM
KAOSKTRL, His name is Jeb, not Jed. I understand the slip; the comparison to the elder Mr Clampett is unavoidable.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 11, 2006 4:09 PM
The Bush family is not conservative but belong to the liberal branch of the republican party that is almost indistinguishable from the old liberal democrats. They are firm friends and allies with the saudi princes. They are politically correct and tied tightly to $$$ from oil. They are ignorant and refuse to educate themselves. They will take no action that means losing votes and thus, losing their job.
Posted by: the poetess at November 11, 2006 04:03 PM
Beware the liberal republican-the absolute worst strain of politician! John Lindsay was one and the eight years he ran New York City as mayor almost destroyed the place. Not until Rudy showed up in the 1990's did New York finally recover fully.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 11, 2006 5:17 PM
I would recommend you all take a look at the slanted reporting from the local Fox station (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=41521&theType=NB) on this matter. I submitted the following comment to the station:
Nice character assassination of the congresswoman. Are you so deluded that you consider this objective journalism or are you at least self-aware enough to understand that this segment was clearly partisan? Whatever the case may be, it doesn't change the fact that her stance is correct. Say what you will and do what you will for ratings but just remember, when the day comes that your children are faced with a "convert or die" ultimatum, you were a small piece of what allowed it to happen.
If anyone else would like to send a comment to them, the link is: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/ContactUs?pageId=5.11
Posted by: MilitantBuddhist at November 11, 2006 6:47 PM
Also, the new Republican governor-elect of Florida, condemned he comments. If you would like to tell him what you think of this, you can e-mail him at: campaign@charliecrist.com
Posted by: MilitantBuddhist at November 11, 2006 6:57 PM
robert
I argued profoundly against your stance in the post "what not to do" instead of looking at the issue from a strategic perspective you became obsessed with a point of theology and compltely missed the main point.
Its not the first time academic pride has caused you to make an error of judgement and when the stakes are so high we cannot aford this.
Maybe its about time we at JW had on open discussion about exactly what are our objectives and strategies. Winning academic arguments may not be the way to go?
at November 11, 2006 7:06 PM
Why don't you losers come out and speak your mind in public instead of hiding behind your computer screen?
Posted by: Salahuddin at November 11, 2006 7:27 PM
"Why don't you losers come out and speak your mind in public instead of hiding behind your computer screen?"
Salahuddin
Are you suggesting that we be brave like people who hijack civilian planes, brave like people who deny the true teachings of their religion, or brave like people who hold rocket launchers but hide in fear and try to pass as civilians whenever they encounter an IDF soldier?
Posted by: MilitantBuddhist at November 11, 2006 7:32 PM
BrownCrusader4Truth.
That pseudonym just about sums the whole she-bang up. Poor Moslems. Victims all. Boo. Hoo. Who.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 11, 2006 7:35 PM
Um, MilitantBhuddist,
That link doesn't seem to be working.
Is it the same one I posted about six post above your, but without the parentheses?
Posted by: PRCS at November 11, 2006 7:59 PM
Pelayo:
I hear your frustration. I too tried to email her but couldn't.
I called her and left a message. Open the PDF link and call the district office.
I live in Canada but i don't care. She deserves to hear from us and how proud we are of her! We need more people like her in Congress.
BROWNE-WAITE in '08
BROWNE-WAITE in '08
BROWNE-WAITE in '08
BROWNE-WAITE in '08
at November 11, 2006 8:52 PM
johnmac:
If you think what I am trying to do is win academic arguments, you have no idea what I am doing at all. My point in engaging Ahmed Bedier and Ali Eteraz, to name two recent examples, was in neither case to make or win academic arguments, but to bring to light some points that I believe are being overlooked in the American public discourse, to the detriment of our resistance to the jihad.
I also rather suspect that a careful reading of what I wrote to both of them will make that abundantly clear.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at November 11, 2006 10:31 PM
"Maybe its about time we at JW had on open discussion about exactly what are our objectives and strategies."
I admit to this kind of confusion myself at times; I think it is just the product of emotionalism and large time investments reading and posting that makes one think they own the place.
Spencer sets the objectives and strategies. It's his site, he's the lightening rod, he pays the bills, etc., though I'm sure he would wish you to feel free to contribute financially as you feel led.
However, I would like to be able to make him put in a button to help me delete archived posts of which I've become embarrassed.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 11, 2006 10:48 PM
salahuddin said "Why don't you losers come out and speak your mind in public instead of hiding behind your computer screen?"
First, This board is a public arena and I do send messages to this and other message boards.
Second, My views on the hateful religion of islam is well known to my family and workers.
Third, When will you muslim quit hiding behind your tired slogans of "islam is peace and love" instead of really telling the infidals that you want to take over, convert us to islam , make sharia the law of the land, and make all nonmuslims 2nd class citizens.
at November 11, 2006 11:10 PM
"Why don't you losers come out and speak your mind in public instead of hiding behind your computer screen?"
Salahuddin
Whoever you are, you seem to be quite good at hiding behind your computer screed like the rest of us loosers. What do YOU do? FYI, I proudly display my "Defeat Jihad" and "Support Israel" bumber stickers on my car. The only gas I put in my car is from Sinclair because they don't buy oil from Persian Gulf states. I also contribute to organizations that help persecuted non-muslims in the hellholes controlled my good ol Mo's henchmen. I dispise Islam and believe it's the rabies of humanity. If I was more of an articulate writer I'd probably be publishing. You may send death threats to: lynndeepoo@yahoo.com
Be ware though, like old-dude I'm armed and I'm a deadly shot. I aint no Dhimmi.
Posted by: never_submit at November 11, 2006 11:21 PM
Why doesn't your brave leader Osama crawl out of his cave and speak the "truth" in public instead of sending those lame messages? Courage is speaking truth to power like Aleksandr Solzhenitzyn or Vaclav Havel, without fear of consequences, not murdering three thousand people and then crawling down a rathole. He must not be to sure about those virgins if he is that afraid of getting a JDAM down his throat like that other valiant muslim Zarqawi, excellent at cutting of the throat of sedated, bound, defenseless civillians, incompetent at firing automatic weapons.
Posted by: godfreyofbouillon at November 11, 2006 11:33 PM
Congratulations to Florida Congresswoman Brown- Waite for her stand against Islamofacists of CAIR.
The danger are the "useful idiots". Beware of the Useful Idiots who live in liberal democracies. Knowingly or unknowingly, they serve as the greatest volunteer and effective soldiers of Islam. They pave the way for the advancement of Islam and they will assuredly be among the very first victims of Islam as soon as it assumes power.
The Useful Idiots are naïve, foolish, ignorant of facts, unrealistically idealistic, dreamers, willfully in denial or deceptive.
By the time they realize their great folly and ignorance they will be wiped out by the Islamofacists.
at November 11, 2006 11:38 PM
Salahuddin, I can't seem to find your street address in your posts, I guess you just forgot, huh?
Posted by: Pelayo at November 12, 2006 1:31 AM
Salahuddin is amusing. Personally, I write to newspapers all the time - and they publish your name. What has this troll ever done, save trolling?
Prophet Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at November 12, 2006 10:35 AM
Robert
It goes without saying that I admire your work and I am very grateful that we have someone such as yourself leading the anti-jihad intellectual debate.
The point that I was making and indeed why I disagreed with the post "what not to do" was one of strategy.
I recognised in the statement made by the congresswomen the correct strategy to beat the Islamists at their own propoganda game - simple bold statements designed to cut through all the lies and subterfuge whilst you seemed only to see congresswomens statement in terms of its veracity and not the potential power of it to communicate to the general public.
Do you still beleive that it was "what not to do" ? as I beleive we are in danger of losing the propoganda war if we dont play the game better.
Posted by: johnmac at November 12, 2006 4:47 PM
johnmac,
If you review Mrs. Hogan's letter, you'll note what RS stated in his 'What Not To Do' post:
In the process of excersing her right to freedom of speech, she made a well-meaning, but erroneous claim that scotched the point she was trying to make:
"The stated goal of the Muslim faith is to kill us, the 'infidels."
If you review this video of Congresswoman Brown-Waite, you'll spot the error that she too has unintentionally made.
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=41521&theType=NB
But you are correct: it's important to play the game better.
Posted by: PRCS at November 12, 2006 5:39 PM
Pelayo et al:
I found a place where you can send Congresswoman Brown-Waite an email. The button for "Email Ginny" is on the bottom left corner of the page. However, she will not respond to your email if you are not of her constituency:
I just sent her an email expressing my support and thanks for her defense of our Constitutional right to free speech.
I've also sent that local news station a comment with an "F" grade for journalistic sloppiness and bias.
Next time that woman runs for any office, I'm sending her a financial contribution!
Posted by: atheling at November 12, 2006 6:00 PM
"The stated goal of the Muslim faith is to kill us, the 'infidels."
PRCS - you illustrate my point exactly - you seem to be obssesed with the academic accuracy of the above statement - and rush to qualify it and in the meantime miss the big picture - exactly what robert was guilty of.
I say that winning the argument with the general public should be the stated aim of everyting that we do and say and in my view the statement by the congresswomen took us a few giant steps along that road. The inability of some to see that I find worrying as the stakes in this game are indeed high and we must have the correct strategy.
Compare this to the enemy camp - they know exactly what strategy they are following and execute it expertly - the proof being that most of the public still percieve Islam as a ROP and perception is everyting.
Finally I dont mean to denigrate anyone but I beleive this question of strategy is one of the most important that we have to make.
at November 13, 2006 3:09 AM
Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite's website: http://brown-waite.house.gov/
Posted by: Alert at November 13, 2006 5:19 AM
johnmac,
Academic accuracy is one of the most important aspects in exposing Islamic teachings, traditions, and laws to the uninformed.
Erroneous arguments distract them from the big picture.
But, it's not me who's obsessing.
Posted by: PRCS at November 13, 2006 2:10 PM
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