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This was inevitable. An update to this story by Paul Garwood for Associated Press, with thanks to Kapil:
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan's lower house of Parliament passed amendments to the country's rape laws Wednesday, ditching the death penalty for extramarital sex and revising a clause on making victims produce four witnesses to prove rape cases.Consensual sex outside marriage remains a crime punishable by five years in prison or a $165 fine, said a parliamentary official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
International and local calls for change intensified after the 2002 gang-rape of a woman, Mukhtar Mai, who was assaulted after a tribal council in her eastern Punjab village ordered the rape as punishment for her 13-year-old brother's alleged affair with a woman of a higher caste.
The amendments — which still must be approved by the Senate — enraged Islamic fundamentalists, but won cautious support from human rights activists, who wanted the controversial laws scrapped altogether.
President Gen. Pervez Musharraf praised lawmakers for passage and urged the government-controlled Senate to approve the amendments within days. He also criticized Islamic fundamentalists for their "unnecessary" opposition and claims that his government was acting against Islam.
"I have taken a firm decision to change these unjust rape laws as it was necessary to amend them to protect women," Musharraf said in a televised address to the nation.
The amendments were passed by a majority of the 342-member assembly, including Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, who said it marked "a historic day" for the country.
"Nothing is against Islam in this bill," Aziz said, adding that the amendments were made in consultation with Islamic scholars, lawmakers and human rights activists.
Pro-Islamic lawmakers stormed out of the National Assembly Wednesday in protest of the new legislation, known as the Protection of Women Bill.
"We reject it," Maulana Fazlur Rahman, a top Islamist opposition leader, told reporters after the vote, which he described as a "dark day" in Pakistan's parliamentary history.
Rahman and other Islamists vowed to devise a strategy to block Senate passage of the bill. Islamic political groups have previously staged mass rallies to denounce moves by the military-led government deemed contrary to Islam.
Pakistan's late military dictator, Gen. Zia ul-Haq, introduced the laws, known as the Hudood Ordinance, in 1979 to appease Islamic fundamentalist political groups opposed to the secularization of Pakistani society.
Human rights activists and moderates have long condemned the laws for punishing — instead of protecting — rape victims by placing the burden of proof on them and providing safeguards for their attackers, such as requiring four eyewitnesses to bring rape charges.
The amendments come amid efforts by Islamabad to soften the country's hard-line Islamic image and appease moderates and human rights groups opposed to the laws.
Hina Jillani, a leading female Pakistani human rights activist, praised the government for taking practical steps to amend the rape laws, but demanded more legislation to protect women's rights.
"The government has made some positive changes by passing this bill, but it does not meet our demands," said Jillani, of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. "We wanted a total repeal of the 1979 rape law, but the government has not done it."
The amendments include dropping the death penalty and flogging for people convicted of having consensual sex outside marriage and giving judges discretion to try rape cases in a criminal rather than Islamic court. Strict Islamic law dictates that a woman claiming rape must produce four witnesses, making a trial almost impossible.
Discussion on the bill broke down in September after the government failed to win support from opposition Islamic groups, particularly for abolishing the need for four witnesses to a rape.
In a compromise, the government proposed the clause allowing a judge to try cases in either a criminal court or in an Islamic court. The new bill also removed the right of police to detain people suspected of having sex outside of marriage, instead requiring a formal accusation in court.
Remember this opposition from Islamic groups the next time you hear an apologist explaining how wonderful Islam is to women. Musharraf and Aziz follow the pattern of all too many moderates: they simply claim that what is being done is not against Islam, while their opponents insist that it is and have chapter and verse from Qur'an, Sunnah, and Islamic law to back them up. If moderates hope ultimately to blunt the force of opposition from Islamic hardliners, they will ultimately have to confront this fact.
Posted by Robert at November 16, 2006 5:55 AM
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Assalamau Laikum all,
So the new laws angers Islamists...well f*ck them...(not the womens).
It is about time that Mushi got some backbone to pass these laws ...which don't nearly go enough anyway.
Now if only they would consider the discrimination against the Ahmadis too....perhaps in good time.
Posted by: Naseem![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 16, 2006 6:14 AM
Who else would object to a law designed to protect the mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, cousins, neighbors, etc. of the land from rape?
Posted by: Kepha at November 16, 2006 6:35 AM
What? Give up the Illah given right to rape with impunity? Never!
Only in the wacky world of Islamania.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 16, 2006 8:07 AM
Really, what would we do without the land of the pure™?
Such an endless source of education of the ugliness and evil of the religion of peace, if it didnt exist, we might have to invent it...Well, ok, maybe not.
Posted by: thomas ato at November 16, 2006 8:32 AM
Naseem
Now if only you would consider the discrimination against the Ahmadis too....before spreading your bile here
Posted by: shiva at November 16, 2006 8:52 AM
Look at these brave muslims and their "brides":
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm639_la-gazette-de-gaston26
at November 16, 2006 9:13 AM
If they pass the law against sex with girls under sixteen, that will mean no more 8 year old brides, thighing babies and raping 5 year old neices.
Oh the outrage!! The muslim males can't bear this. They must ...have.....pedophile sex!!
Posted by: freewoman at November 16, 2006 9:53 AM
I like Naseem. Don't blame the mess we're opposing on Naseem. If the observations about our grandchildren make us angry, it's because deep down we know it's possible. Save your anger for the many dhimmi Christian/political/military/Jewish leaders of the world. They deserve it.
Posted by: Beagle at November 16, 2006 10:11 AM
This is a victory no matter how small. Now if the law is actually enforced it will be a great victory for the war against global islamicism.
Naseem... I'm glad to see you think this is a good thing and that you hope for further measures like prohibitions against sectarian discrimination of your Ahmadis...
But don't you see your support of this is against Allah? See it... you're halfway over the river... keep coming over to us. Let us know before the firewalls go up and you can no longer communicate with the free world out here.
Do you know when your ISI will shut you out of this place?
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 10:16 AM
Good job, Musharraf - now how about repealing that blasphemy law? That would be against Islam, though. Oh, well.
As for Ahmadis, they are heretics and apostates, no punishment is too harsh for them. Mohammed was the last prophet, got that? But Ahmadis only believe in defensive jihad, so maybe that's an improvement (though of course further evidence of heresy as well).
Posted by: tvdog at November 16, 2006 11:08 AM
I hope that the ahmadi keeps on being persecuted. Chances that this way they finally will turn to a more decent religion
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 11:40 AM
Interesting play on words, Naseem. Does allah let you talk like that?
at November 16, 2006 11:43 AM
So the new laws angers Islamists...well f*ck them -Naseem
Be careful they might just consider that to be an invitation.
at November 16, 2006 11:47 AM
Ha Ha Ha!!
Posted by: champ at November 16, 2006 12:25 PM
Assalamau Laikum Stillfedup,
You say "I hope that the ahmadi keeps on being persecuted".
Stillfedup...I tell all, that you one f**ked up lund...and that's only the half of it.
We Ahmadis have learned to live within Islamists...and 150 years later after the development of our Ahmadi religion...we are still here.
You wish for my death ...but it's not up to you it's for almight Allah to decide....earthquakes not withstanding.
It will be interesting to see when Italy becomes Islamic (within the next 20 years)...how you squirm?... to see whether your faithless post modern christainity can survive against a pre-modern extra faithful Islam...ultimately to witness minerates and loudspeakers mounted on the Vatican....blaring the Islamic call to prayer 5 times a day...like it or not...it will happen...and stillfedup I certainly don't wish for any harm to come to you...I want you to witness that with your eyes wide open and your numb mind with disbelief.
Stillfedup, the best way you can survive is to own a clothes shop...buy all that extra black material ...and start sewing....you will need the practice for all those Jilbabs, hijabs and veils ...oh and conversion (to Ahmadi) wouldn't go amiss either!....happy sewing
Posted by: Naseem at November 16, 2006 12:28 PM
Naseem you are Ahmadi? I know two Ahmadis they tell me you are the only Ismlamic sect that hates jihad and does not preach it (so you are hated by sunnis and the rest). Is this true? I will have to look it up. IF it is true then you Ahmadis have to convert the rest of them and make them Ahmadi muslims. Start with the crazy sunnis!!
I know that the other Muslims (sunnis etc) have persecuted your faith for a long time.
however your attacks on unbelivers here (and I am one too) here telling them to get ready for an islamic state confuse me. Are you saying you want to forcibly coerce nonmuslims to become Muslims?
Naseem no offence but italy and the other Allies will not become Muslim we will drive out the Sunnis --a few more major attacks and you will see a different angrier west.
However Ahmadis are the ONLY muslims who I have met who told me they do not believe in Jihad. Is this true?
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 12:35 PM
Sounds like someone's got their panties in a bunch.
Posted by: champ at November 16, 2006 12:44 PM
Naseem ... I'm glad to see you think this is a good thing and that you hope for further measures like prohibitions against sectarian discrimination of your Ahmadis...
But don't you see your support of this is against Allah? See it... you're halfway over the river... keep coming over to us. Let us know before the firewalls go up and you can no longer communicate with the free world out here.
Do you know when your ISI will shut you out of this place?
at November 16, 2006 12:48 PM
....oops....I meant to say "burqa in a bunch".
Posted by: champ at November 16, 2006 1:14 PM
Assalamaua Laikum THE ALLIES SHALL WIN,
Yes it is true that we Ahmadi muslims don't believe in violent Jihad.
We are educated believers of Dawa and inner spiritual (non-violent) jihad.
You say "IF it is true then you Ahmadis have to convert the rest of them and make them Ahmadi muslims. Start with the crazy sunnis"!!
Allies...we have been trying to convert the rest of the muslims to Ahmadi like us for 150 years now...the situation however has changed with the West (better for Ahmadi) coming into the picture so prominately.... the sunni are not now so interested in us...but in you.
I figure that since Islam is spreading so rapidly in the West ...many western peoples will (want to or otherwise) convert...so I spend my energies ensuring that YOU peoples know about the Ahmadi and when it is time for you to convert ...you choose Ahmadi.
Together with our skills (as Ahmadi) we can with our increasing numbers "disinfect" the Sunni and the Shai ...so that the world can still be Islamic ...but it is a peacful Ahmadi Islam.
Surely this is a much better alternative than becoming Suuni or Shia...let them fight each other ...and let us pick up the pieces and together remain the true proponents of the Ahmadi....
Thank you for supporting Ahmadi
Alhumdulilla...May Allah show mercy upon you!
Plague...why are you so interested in when and IF I go offline!
at November 16, 2006 1:36 PM
Naseem I see you Ahmadis have suffered at the hands of the sunnis but, my friend, you must understand, we unbelievers (Christians, Jews, Buhddists, seculars, etc) want to live in peace with you but we do not want to convert to your faith.
Just as you value your faith we value ours. The thing is we do not attack others who do not believe in our faith and force them to convert. And since you do not believe in violent jihad you do not believe in that forcing either.
We might have to end up driving out the violent jihadists from among our western countries. To say that a mass conversion is coming to the West and its better if we convert to Ahmadi is like me saying a mass forced conversion is coming to the middle east and its better if YOU convert to Christianity before
we start throwing out the jihadists.
How about this instead: YOU Ahmadis take over the middle east (take it away from the sunnis and shia) and we the rest of us maintain the nonmuslim world.
If you do not, in your particular expression of Islam, believe in violent jihad then we could live in a world with you you see?
An Islam of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ONLY and in Mecca and medina large mosques to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad since you do not believe in jihad to convert people we could live beside a middle east dominated by Ahmadi and not the sunni/shiite. I notice Ahmadis forbid
Again no offense but as Christians (and others) we have no interest in converting to your religion (as you do not have converting to ours).
HOWEVER I notice in Pakistan you are considered so different by the sunnis they say you are not even muslim! This makes you their enemies. how about the future: You guys own the middle east and we own the west. Turn Arabia into a tribute to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and we will turn Europe and US back to its Judeo-Christian roots. And if you have no intention on Israel converting them by jihad you can live in peace beside them. We can ALL wait in peace until judgement day.
But please do not assume we christians and jews will enmasse convert to Islam because of the crazy sunnis and shiites. We are a humble people who carry big sticks.
A question: how do you interpret ALL those obvious quotes in the quran that say you must go out and force by jihad and kill unbelievers until they are muslims. How do you interpret those since you do not believe in jihad.
Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad add a testament on the Quran that overrides the obvious "kill the kafiir even if they are not bothering you" texts in the hadiths/quran??
Thank you for your blessing (Spencer said in Islam you cannot bless an unbeliever is Ahmadi different in this? In Christianity you can bless everybody)
May Christ and the God of Israel bless and show you mercy.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 2:36 PM
PS for my Christian friends out there Yes I know about/believe in the Trinity my blessing was in two parts so I can write the God OF ISRAEL...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 2:40 PM
A_Plague_on_Both_Houses said it best "halfway over the river keep coming over to us." If Ahmadis are basically non jihad muslims they could actually get along with us without trying killing innocent people. As for the Vatican the only thing that will blar out from there are the bells of St Peters of Rome calling Christians to prayer.
Naseem how about focusing on Mecca and Medina for your faith since I notice the Sunnis dont let you got there. Call to prayer (Ahmadi Muslim ) prayer could blare out of Mecca and Medina.
If islam is willing to convert to Ahamdi expression (I dont know how else to state it) then the west wont need to wipe out sunni/shiite islamofascist hatred.
However we will not convert to Islam as you do not want to convert to our faiths (whatever they may be).
at November 16, 2006 2:45 PM
Naseem I do not support Ahmadi as a believer-- I support Jesus but I welcome Ahamdi if Ahmadi wants to live in peace beside me and not kill me for my belief.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 2:49 PM
greetings ALLIES SHALL WIN I appreciate you trying to be a peacekeeper with our Ahmadi friend here however I would take a different tact.
Naseem said :
I figure that since Islam is spreading so rapidly in the West ...many western peoples will (want to or otherwise) convert...so I spend my energies ensuring that YOU peoples know about the Ahmadi and when it is time for you to convert ...you choose Ahmadi.
Together with our skills (as Ahmadi) we can with our increasing numbers "disinfect" the Sunni and the Shai ...so that the world can still be Islamic ...but it is a peacful Ahmadi Islam.
I on the other hand say:
I would say to him as he said to us you my ahmadi friend convert to the Christian faith and then together we will disinfect islam by wiping it off for the Christian faith (as he is calling for your conversion would mean wiping off your faith).
And for the record the fastest growing religion in the West and in the world is not Islam its evangelical protestant Christianity. Thats a fact.
You may look it up in google. Most of the sites that say the fastest growing religion is islam are newswebsites not the professional stats sites.
Newssites have their own agenda.
at November 16, 2006 3:04 PM
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
don't be fooled by this idiotic beast from fuckistan.
The Ahmadi sect is still pushing the supremacist agenda of all muslims, plus they count ZERO among the muslims and it's more likely that islam disappears from the face of the planet than the Ahmadi takes power over the other types of muslims.
I found this quote (the supremacy of islam anyway) in italian on an italian website, I will be looking for another page in english.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 3:10 PM
Naseem - just throw the stuff over the side of your boat and come over. Forget about da'wa - if you won't convert us by force that's great. I don't mind if you stay Ahmadi and most people won't in the free world.
If you like Ahmadi because of the lack of violence and zakat, salat, honor for widows and orphans let me tell you something. You can give to poor ( any poor even outside your beliefs ), pray 5 times a day, honor and respect widows and orphans and do good things for them, honor your mother and father, all those things can be done outside of Qur'an.
all of those things existed before Mohammed came along. They are parts of other religious systems that predate Islam. Some of these religious systems expand out the concepts greater than Islam does....
while you don't have to be Ahmadi to do the good parts of Islam... you don't have to be anything to do them & even do more.
Love your neighbor as yourself ... it doesn't mean love people like you but hate your enemy. You don't have to hate anyone - hate is NOT 'holy'
God doesn't need us to hate.
God wouldn't want half of his children to be treated like cows to be f@#$% when he needs more children. You're not worth 1/2 of me, Naseem. You're worth every bit of me, a western, freedom-loving man. Anyone who tells you different is one evil motherfucker!
God didn't say you are worth 1/2 of my worth. No way.
Drop all the Islamic trash - live by the good principles you find: zakat, salat, hospitality, protecting widows and orphans and more. It's all outside of Submission... It's not about submission... it's about loving God and loving the people of this earth. Treat others as you would be treated. It is that simple.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 3:10 PM
Treat all others as you would be treated.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 3:11 PM
Naseem:
Plague...why are you so interested in when and IF I go offline!
Posted by: Naseem
To be honest - I don't think you are in Pakistan.
You've been responding to this thread during the late hours of Pakistan night.
I work with People in Pune, Mumbai, Bangalore and other Indian cities. I work with them in real time, so I know what hours they keep in my day.
You are working on this site during times when a middle aged woman who helps run a furniture store should be resting in bed. I think you are trying to deceive us with your personal story.
Naseem - if you are a woman remember this one thing from me: you are not 1/2 of my value. You are as valuable as any man. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a motherf@#$R%Ti !!!
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 3:15 PM
Yankeeboy yep I am trying to say "since you can live in peace beside us then do so but we will not convert to Islam as you will not convert to Christianity or Judaism"
You are turning the tables and asking for his conversion as he asked for mine. Fair enough.
As for evangelicals being the fastest growing faith in the world. Yep thats true i cant argue with that. As an Orthodox Christian (and I believe Robert Spencer is Roman Catholic) I have no problem with that because basically if you believe Jesus came and died for your sins and rose from the dead then of course I have no problem with that!
here is the article I read only a little while on that somebody else pointed me to.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/979
Christianity is having probs in Europe but its actually growing in the rest of the world like wildfire. (Dont even ASK about the Chinese Christian underground church it is truly gigantic).
Maybe we should bring alot of Chinese christians and let them loose in Europe. I feel bad for that sweet Lutheran priest who doused himself in gas and lit himself because of the islamofascist threat in Europe. Its not necessary. Christian faith preaches peace (like our Ahmadi friend says Ahamadi Islam preachers) but we also have the blood of Christ --a free gift of eternal life you dont have to spend your life cowering in fear. You receive eternal life in Christ (he died for your sins) and then you can go do good as a RESULT of being saved not in order to be saved. (yes we orthodox believe that too --its in the bible hard to miss!)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:15 PM
"...the pattern of all too many moderates: they simply claim that what is being done is not against Islam, while their opponents insist that it is and have chapter and verse from Qur'an, Sunnah, and Islamic law to back them up. If moderates hope ultimately to blunt the force of opposition from Islamic hardliners, they will ultimately have to confront this fact."
Rape laws, polygamy, supremacism, dhimmitude, slavery....
The hardliners have not hijacked Islam.
So few of our politicians, academicians, journalists, and fellow citizens understand that.
Not even Glen Beck.
at November 16, 2006 3:17 PM
StillFedUp dont worry my fellow infidel, like Samual L. Jackson said in
PULP FICTION; "I got my eyes wife f@$@#4 open!"
Anyway I am wary --thats why I asked okay Naseem how do you treat ALL those "kill the unbelievers" commands in the quran and hadiths (and of course the beat your wife ones, the one where MUhammed had sex with a nine year old one, the dhimmi status for unblievers verses, the islam as a political force and not merely a mystical belief ) etc etc
I will wait and see what he says....
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:18 PM
here is some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad
When Ahmad was forty years old his father died. At this time Ahmad claimed that God had begun communicating with him, often through direct revelation.
(don't you see the similarities with mohammed?)
Jesus (called Yuz Asaf) was crucified and survived the 4 hours on the cross, then was revived from a swoon in the tomb. [4] He died in Kashmir of old age whilst seeking the "Lost Tribes of Israel".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad
so much for the PERSECUTION, in the above page it's written NOBODY went to jail for being ahmadi
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 3:19 PM
Ps
STILLFEDUP what is the link? Even in Italian I have an online translation engine I can use and get the gist of it.
The online free language translation engine is
here:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:20 PM
just read what the founder of the movement said
http://www.jamiat.org.za/is_qadshia.html
1890: He claimed 'I am the replica of Jesus.'
1892: 'Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was the final prophet. I do not lay claim to prophethood. I am the son of Mary.'
1893: 'God speaks to me and gives guidance for reforms'
1894: 'Jesus was a liar and his grandmother was a whore.'
1902: He declared: 'I am superior to all prophets including Muhammad'. 'One who does not believe in me is a Kaafir.' 'The Qur'an and my words are from Allah.'
1904: He declared 'I am god and Lord also Krishna'
Make of it what you want.
at November 16, 2006 3:25 PM
STILLFEDUP
re: the wikepdia stuff thank you Im reading that now.
I remember the early christians where thrown into the lions pens (a holocaust) and the millions of christians in Asia Minor (Turkey) who were massacred by muslims on and on. I know christians have suffered for their faith extremely.
hmmm you are right STILLFEDUP where is the persecution of their founder?
STILLFEDUP and like I said earlier problem verses aside and jihad aside Islam still has mases and masses of bad stuff in it like the doctrines of women and dhimmni and their value being 1/2 of a man as PLAGUE_ON_BOTH_HOUSE stated.
Maybe Yankee_boy is right perhaps I should just say:
Naseem come over to our side and live dawas and such and become a Christian!
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:28 PM
StillFedUp - what I make of it is this guy was another delusional in line with the rest.
Drop the religion and keep the relationships.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 3:29 PM
STILLFEDUP:
*as if waking up from a stupor*
WAIIIIT WATI ,,
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT A MINUTE the ahmadi founder
said:
1894: 'Jesus was a liar and his grandmother was a whore.' ??!!
ALLLLLLLLLRIGHT THEN ITS OVER>
NASEEM REPENT AND TURN TO JESUS WHO IS PURE AND WHOSE MOTHER IS A SAINT THE BLESSED VIRGIN HERSELF.
REPENT AND WASH AWAY YOUR SINS NASEEM. I SPEAK TO YOU TODAY OF CHRIST AND HIS LOVE FOR YOU.
"God presented CHRIST as a sacrifice of ATONEMENT by his blood through faith" (Romans 3:24-5)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:31 PM
this is the link
http://www.cesnur.org/religioni_italia/i/islam_17.htm
I am referring to the sentence
"Negli anni 1880-1884 scrive i quattro volumi dell'opera Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya, destinata a mostrare la superiorità dell'Islam sulle altre fedi, e particolarmente sul cristianesimo, accolta con favore da numerosi ambienti islamici. "
I am looking for the original source in english, even if the final meaning is very clear.
There is NO PART of islam, heretic or not, jihadist or not, that wants to live with non-muslims without trying to convert them in any way possible.
This sounds to me as a threat anyway.
After all, you see the pakistani cow is telling us to get ready with veils and turbans.
Cow, it's pointless that to pretend you are better than bin laden you wish me no harm, the islamization of the west and bringing us back to 7th century arabia is the worst death possible that can be wished to humanity.
Therefore you are worse than bin laden (and deserve accordingly).
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 3:34 PM
Thanks PLAGUE and STILLFEDUP.
By the way my Turkish nonmuslim friend just phoned me (I read him the entire above post).
He said to me:
"Ahmadis dont believe in jihad but the believe in all the rest. AND they still believe in defensive jihad, there are a few ahmadi teachers who turn almost any form of insult easily into 'defensive' dont be fooled!!"
Oy vey. These guys are smooth. I think I need a strong cup of coffee be right back guys.
at November 16, 2006 3:35 PM
"hmmm you are right STILLFEDUP where is the persecution of their founder?"
what i meant was this sentence from the wiki article
"In 1974, the Pakistani parliament amended the Pakistani constitution to declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims for purposes of the constitution of the Islamic Republic. [13] In 1984, a series of changes in the Pakistan Penal Code sections relating to blasphemy that, in essence, made it illegal for Ahmadis to preach their religion openly as Islam, leading to arrests and prosecutions. However, no one has been executed yet, even though it is allowed under the law."
where are the persecutions?
it's all lies
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 3:37 PM
STILLFEDUP and et al.
I have to apologize to you guys in my zeal at trying to be a peacemaker as YankeeBoy said I am forgetting everything else about Islam Ahmadi or otherwise.
Its a weakness with us soft hearted westerners I guess. And (God I feel like such a fool) I read his stuff sooo fast I didnt even see certain things he posted on here.
what the #@$@#$@#.
Clothing shop?
Start sewing burqas?
ARRGH its a good lesson to me. Im drinking coffee now and Im going to reread the QURAN and Spencer's books! (reading the quran always makes any illusions one has about Islam go away).
Arrgh I feel like such a tool.
And my turkish nonmuslim friend Bulent is laughing on the phone here. He said "defensive jihad yeaah it depends on how you you mean defenseive PARDON MY EYE IN YOUR FIST" I get it.
sheeesh.
okay looking up the italian page now.
at November 16, 2006 3:41 PM
Naseem - you don't even have to be Christian... just throw the rubbish overboard, come over to the other side of the river and live according to the ethical rules you have already.... no problem. Just don't try to bring the other Qur'anic junk with you. Keep the good parts and leave all the rest behind.
Or if that monster in the closet ( allah ) frightens you too much... keep it. If you can't walk away from the fear of eternal punishment from allah. Keep allah and come over... as long as you don't try to convert by force and you don't try to force the rest of us to change our societies to reflect your rules and beliefs, it's okay.
Just don't expect us to agree with you. Bringing Islam with you is like traveling with a suitcase filled with dirty underwear and a few coins scattered among the laundry. It's hardly worth searching piles of soiled cloth to find the 10 Pakistani rupees... and you get dirty when you try.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 3:43 PM
pardon my eye in your fist = oh I offended you with my eyes so your fist to my eye is your defense.
Ie ANYTHING can be termed an offense that needs a 'defence'.
-------------
"...However, no one has been executed yet, even though it is allowed under the law."
where are the persecutions?
it's all lies
STILLFEDUP
-----
yep I see it. sheesh.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:44 PM
basically this mirza guy said that jesus's grave is in kashmir, then he said it's in syria and then again he changed his mind and said it's in Kasmir
you cannot blame the other muslims for not taking this ahmadi sect seriously...
http://alhafeez.org/rashid/grave.html
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 3:50 PM
LOL, however here's how the muslims wash away the "prophecies" of this last prophet...
http://www.irshad.org/exposed/verdict.php
"My work for which I am standing .n this ground is none other than that I will shatter the pillar of 'Isa-worship' (i.e. Jesus- worship) and will spread monotheism instead of Trinity and exhibit the eminence and dignity of the holy Prophet(SAW) to the world. Hence, if even millions of signs may appear from me but this real work does not come to pass through me, then I am a liar. Therefore, why is the world hostile to me and why does it not see my accomplishments? If I succeed in doing that work in Islam's support which ought to be done by the promised Masih and the promised Mahdi, then I am truthful and if nothing is achieved and I am dead, then let all be witness that I am a liar". (Akhbar Badr, Qadian Number, Vol. 29, P. 4, dated July 2-19, 1906; Qadiani Mazhab Section 7, No. 39)
Mirza's prediction came true. He died and nothing was achieved. The world saw the finale of this fake sire. Eighty-five years have passed since his death and "the pillar of Isa-worship" has not yet crumbled; faith in Trinity has not yielded to monotheism; and Christianity has seen no impediments; only Mirza's loquacity has gone bottom-side up! His ravings only helped to spiral a greater ascendancy for the Christians.
In consequence the world must go on calling Mirza, as he wished to be called, a liar, a liar, a liar till his Day of Reckoning!
at November 16, 2006 3:54 PM
NASEEM HERE IS SOMETHNG FOR YOU TO READ:
http://debate.org.uk/topics/coolcalm/Ahmadiyya_rebuttal.html
STILLFEDUP the above link was a christian response I just found now. PLAGUE_ON_BOTH_HOUSE is also right as is Yankeeboy. Ah well to err is human. In my zeal to find peaceful expressions of Islam I forget that Islam is still ...well..Islam.
My exmuslim turkish friend is still laughing the bum. He just said: "listen I grew up in Islam there is no changing it you just gotta leave it man. Ahmadi or whatever. Ahmadi is still islam..."
He is calling me from work and works at the U of T library. Hold on I got an idea...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:54 PM
STILLFEDUP THANKS FOR THE ITALIAN PAGE
ALSO re: Mizra hahaha I couldnt stop laughing .
By the way I just got off the phone (I dont want to get the guy fired at work --for me I work nights).
He just found out that ahmadis do in fact practice
Taqiyya.
God I feel like such a fool. Oh well. live and learn.
STILLFEDUP Thanks you have been a great help and Plague and yankeeboy etc.
STILLFEDUP are you an American. Im a Canadian here in Toronto. just curious.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 3:59 PM
PS
STILLFEDUP your last post
with the link
http://www.irshad.org/exposed/verdict.php and the
Mizra thing and how Eighty-five years have passed since his death and "the pillar of Isa-worship" has not yet crumbled; faith in Trinity has not yielded to monotheism; and Christianity has seen no impediments; only Mirza's loquacity has gone bottom-side up!
was a post of pure excellence it blew me away. BRAVO STILLFEDUP BRAVO!
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:01 PM
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN - okay it the prophecies didn't come true and it's been 85 years... I think it's safe to assume they won't be coming true.
The prophecies were false. Thank you.
at November 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Allies - Still Fed up is Italian and spends at least some of that time in Milan ( Northern ).
She reminds me of Oriana Fallaci. By the way, I have a serious weakness for the beauty of native Italian women. I've been there and what I saw couldn't have impressed me more. They would be my favorite flavor of gelato if I was an Ice Cream Man. :-) Sorry. Had to add that. I'm still a man...
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 4:08 PM
A_PLAGUE_ON_BOTH_HOUSES actually thank STILLFEDUP it wasnt me re the prophecies.
But pardon my dominating this thread with the back and forth re:Ahmadi. This thread is about the rape laws in Pakistani I understand. But you know I needed that (stillfedup's postings).
I said for Naseem to convert because he wants to convert us. But I get along with anybody as long as their faith doesnt say it wants to kill me (it goes a long way with me) OR treat women like 1/2 value of man (anybody tries to do that to my sister theyll be hell to pay). But PLAGUE you have to admit it was a good back and forth thread there! I liked your comment about dirty laundry ..priceless.
Anyway i consider that over Ill sit back and let others talk. Ciao.
at November 16, 2006 4:12 PM
Yes Italian women are beautiful but STILLFEDUP is also beautiful inside that lady has GUTS.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:14 PM
okay - yes, the little good in Islam can be found in abundance other places and in richer detail.... it's simply not enough to stick around for. You can get better at cheaper prices.
I think Naseem wants to leave it all but can't because doing so exposes her to the eternal hellfire of allah. That is the thing that must be broken. It is the fear of childhood ( the monster who comes out at night ) that keeps many people from breaking completely. That and the threat of a mafia-style hit by Islamic thugs.
at November 16, 2006 4:18 PM
Allies:
Yes Italian women are beautiful but STILLFEDUP is also beautiful inside that lady has GUTS.
That fire is what attracts me like no other. They are beautiful to look at and have fiery souls.
outstanding
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 4:20 PM
PLAGUE sheesh if you like that kind of fire you must also like Spanish Girls , and youd love Greek girls too I bet. You know the actress Jennifer Aniston? (yeah shes greek) but then Im getting waayy off topic.
Wait. Naseem is a lady too?
Im carefully reading over the entire thread again. I see where Naseem said alot of fairly nasty stuff.
But I agree its a childhood fear. Very difficult to overcome. My friend Bulent said that he thought he would burst into flames when he left Islam or be transformed into a pig.
Plague where do you live (again curiosity).
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:26 PM
"THE ALLIES SHALL WIN - okay it the prophecies didn't come true and it's been 85 years... I think it's safe to assume they won't be coming true.
The prophecies were false. Thank you."
hey people, it took us 5 minutes to dismantle an islam heresy
are we scholars now?
LOL
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 4:27 PM
perhaps the lesson here is that with the internet its easy to dismantle obscure lies.
Either that or "you dont need to be a scholor to dimantle Islam. You just need to push the first domino.."
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:30 PM
yes i am near milan and i am thankful that italy is so late in catching on all trends that islam is not spread yet like in UK or france, but we already talking about it like it was. People are already alarmed.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 4:30 PM
A_PLAGUE_ON_BOTH_HOUSES I thought when you said the below statement you were ticked that we were carrying on about that topic for so long "The prophecies were false. Thank you." but I didnt know all that was only 5 mins. Felt like it was hours!
"THE ALLIES SHALL WIN - okay it the prophecies didn't come true and it's been 85 years... I think it's safe to assume they won't be coming true.
The prophecies were false. Thank you."
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:31 PM
"Either that or "you dont need to be a scholor to dimantle Islam. You just need to push the first domino..""
LOL, you are outdoing yourself...
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 4:31 PM
You are in Italy too! Lucky! must be warm there now? cold drizzly day here in Toronto. Yes we are talking about that here too. Except there are over 11 mosques in my city. ELEVEN. If it was jewish temples I wouldnt care (lest you think I only want Christian churches) --jews dont want to kill or forcibly convert me.
I understand your concerns re:Europe I think that soon the old Euro allies and the rest (America) will wake up --but sometimes I fear it will have to be after some sort of suitcase nuke thing so people get very angry with their PC govts and demand change.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:35 PM
STILLFEDUP thanks I try! :)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 4:37 PM
NASEEM (from my friend Paul in Singapore):
The big problem is that only Muslims believe in Allah. So the above statement is circular, i.e. one surrenders to Allah’s will because (s)he is already a Muslim. The Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, Atheists, etc. do not believe in your Allah.
Christians for one would never believe in a deity that sanctions his prophet killing his critics, sleep with a 9 year old girl, rob caravans, torture someone to reveal the hidden treasures of his tribe, murder hundreds of men and boys, rape women whose husbands his followers murdered and enslave women, girls and prepubescent boys. A deity that dictates women are unintelligent, non-spiritual, less worthy than men and may be beaten up by their husbands, etc. is not a deity that most normal human beings would believe in and surrender to.
The one true God doesn’t scheme (as it is written in the QURAN, ALLAH schemes more than them), doesn’t order his follower to kill anyone who doesn’t believe in him and his prophet, doesn’t promise unbridled sexual orgy with 72 virgins in his presence, doesn’t order those who apostates from his religion to be killed, doesn’t create women inferior to men.
The one true God loves his creations. He doesn’t hate any of his creations nor does he change them into monkeys and pigs. He doesn’t scare his creations with inhuman or ungodly punishment just so that they all are fearful of him.
at November 16, 2006 4:44 PM
"You are in Italy too! Lucky! must be warm there now?"
well it's a little cold, but not as cold as by canadian standards.
Did you know that this canadian born model
http://cremesti.com/krasiva/mixed/half-half/pakistan-german/yasmeen_ghauri/yas2.jpg
is daughter of an imam in canada?
She is westernized but her father is one that preaches the veil bla bla bla
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 4:54 PM
Christian faith spreading among muslims very fast->
Only a little while ago the top ulema of the State of Kedah in Islamic Malaysia also reported the great loss of Muslims to other religions particularly Christianity. He stated that in 2005 no less than 250,000 Muslims requested to have their religion changed in their ID Cards. Many decided to do this for a very practical reason, the State started earnestly to apply the Sharia – the barbaric Islamic Law to Muslims. These fine folks didn’t wish to be flogged in public 100 times for drinking alcohol or gambling. The Muslimat – the women Muslims – didn’t particularly like the idea of being stoned to death for adultery. The rest couldn’t see themselves losing a hand and/or a foot for stealing or corruption which is rampant amongst government officials.
Posted by: Yankee_boy at November 16, 2006 5:01 PM
STILLFEDUP
yes I have seen her I think on several Fashion mag inserts in our local Toronto Star newspapers.
I always thought she was a european I think she goes by a european name too. She could pass for a southern Europeab Spanish, Greek or an Italian (ie she looks good!) so she should just become a Christian or something. hahaha
at November 16, 2006 5:04 PM
STILL FED UP Her father preaches the veil obviously she (adn I mean OBVIOUSLY hahaha) she does not. good for her.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 5:06 PM
StillFedUp,
"Did you know that this canadian born model
http://cremesti.com/krasiva/mixed/half-half/pakistan-german/yasmeen_ghauri/yas2.jpg"
The Canadian beauty reminds me of Bin Laden’s spoiled niece who posed for Playboy last year. She grew up in France, studied at America’s Columbia Law School, and wants to be a jihad singer in the West. What a confused young woman!
Is StillFedUp = Fedup ?
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN,
You are a good infidel guy. I enjoy reading your posts. Keep up with your good work! lol
Time for me to get out of work. Have a nice evening in Canada!
Posted by: kung fu fighter at November 16, 2006 5:25 PM
StillFedUp - now when I see evidence like the link to the Candian model Yasmine I have hope for the future. Most of the people in Dar al-Islam deserve a future but the ideas in their heads do not.
Allies Will Win - I'm in the middle of the United States along the Mississippi... Mark Twain / Tom Sawyer country.
I don't want to say more since the name I use here could give me away at a later date and I have concerns for my children's safety. I am planning on going a lot more public with things if it works out and I don't want some homicidal true believers to do a Theo van Gogh on my kids. Some jihadis could be smart enough to piece things together eventually.
Sorry about not being more forthcoming than that.
About the link to model Yasmine - dude that's perfection right there. I like the dark hair and everything else. To me, examples like her along with beer, prove that God loves us and wants us to be happy. When I think of Naseem from now on... I'll keep this lady in mind. :-)
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 5:32 PM
read this article which should be from mid-90s
it is what's happening now told 10+ years earlier
http://www.yasmeen-ghauri.com/talk/articles/model-outcast/
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 5:34 PM
kung fu fighter THANK YOU my Chinese brother God bless you. By the way I train in Choy Lay Fut myself (we have a school down the road). I think I need to get out there and hit that old Ching Jong tonite. If you read the post here today you can see why haha.
I have to leave before I start talking about the beauty of oriental women too and lose my mind! !!
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
at November 16, 2006 5:35 PM
"Is StillFedUp = Fedup ?"
of course
BTW, that model is half pakistani and half german, although not sure if german-original.
She doesn't pass as total ethinc indian/paki but mixed.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 16, 2006 5:37 PM
STILLFEDUP. kung fu fighter, A_PLAUGE_ON_BOTH_HOUSES
Im calling it a night. kung fu fighter gave me a good idea. Even though theres no fight class for me tonite before work I think Ill go in and work out a bit. That Naseem was a bit tiring there. lol
I would like to be around when STILLFEDUP meets her later on here whenver that occurs. PLAGUE you said
When I think of Naseem from now on... I'll keep this lady in mind. :-)
if you like that style of lady maybe you could ask
Naseem out and show her we infidel guys know how to treat women unlike our muslim 'counterparts' that like to treat them at what is is...1/2 value of a man? lol
Peace all . Out.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 16, 2006 5:41 PM
Naseem says convert to Ahmadi. The Allies Will Win (and others) says convert to Christianity.
Why don't you all embrace rationality and become atheists? Then we won't have jihads or crusades either one ... LOL ...
Say it all together, "There's no such thing as ghosts (even Holy Ghosts)."
Posted by: tvdog at November 16, 2006 5:45 PM
tvdog - even if you don't want religion - the ethical system you find in Judeo-Christian culture is beneficial to the world. We loose it at our peril.
at November 16, 2006 5:55 PM
I do not think that the filthy outcries from the minarets will EVER peal out from St. Peter's. But I could be wrong, the glorious church of the Holy Wisdom in Turkey-land was desecrated by the rantings of the Pedophile Propphet before it was turned into a museum.
What would tickle my fancy would be to see the abbot and monks of Mt. Sinai take a little trip over to a Mecca-turned-to dust, and perform an exorcism oover that outpost of hell. Maybe the Catholics could erect a beautiful statue of the Mother of God standing on a crescent moon and crushing the head of the serpent.
Well, I doubt if I'll see that on TV, either, but it would make a nice poster!
at November 16, 2006 6:12 PM
"By the way I train in Choy Lay Fut myself . . ." Posted by THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
By the way, I train in Sturm Ruger and Company myself.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 16, 2006 6:23 PM
Off topic from Canada:
Exclusion of men from Montreal neonatal clinic beyond common sense: Dumont
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at November 16, 2006 6:36 PM
Just going out the door and JUST HAD to pop in to see the new jihadwatch hotair video which I was told has just been put up, by Robert Spencer and on that note:
PELAYO lol yes if mad muslims come over the hills attacking over here thats the "system" I will train in Sturm Ruger and Co.
And by what Spencer says in the video it wont be long. Ibrahim said: he wants islam to be above all beliefs etc in the US. These scum will stop at nothing.
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/11/16/the-cair-congress/#comments
at November 16, 2006 6:36 PM
It's a nice start, I don't know much about Pakistan's government, but does this have to go through another house before it becomes law.
If so, what chance does something like this have, when their leaders name is Pres. Gen. Perv.?
Just a thought.
Niv
Posted by: niv at November 16, 2006 6:49 PM
naseem dont count on italy becouming a islamic nation the moors tried it befor 1492 when the spanish kicked them out as for packistans rape laws its sounds more like the fundys there just want there child brides and how many of them are rapist themself that would be convicted on dna evidenct
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 16, 2006 7:42 PM
americaningermany,
Welcome back!
You are right -- "What? They're upset because they might not be able to screw anything that walks, crawls or swims?"
Posted by: kung fu fighter at November 16, 2006 8:11 PM
It is about time that Mushi got some backbone to pass these laws ...which don't nearly go enough anyway.
Now if only they would consider the discrimination against the Ahmadis too....perhaps in good time.
Posted by: Naseem at November 16, 2006 06:14 AM
......you are lucky that the Hudoor ordinance is watered down. This ghastly, obscene and pervert ordinance was passed, because, not inspite, of Islam. Denying Hudood, like denying discrimination against Ahmadis, is denying, atleast in part, Islam.
And you know the horror Islam dishes out to un-believers.......
Posted by: Alert at November 16, 2006 8:30 PM
Pakistan is a hopeless case.
How can anyone build a nation on such terrible foundations as islam?
A house bult on sand (islam) will not stand.
Unless the Lord builds the house, the laborers labor in vain.
Posted by: rocky at November 16, 2006 10:16 PM
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN,
“kung fu fighter THANK YOU my Chinese brother God bless you. By the way I train in Choy Lay Fut myself (we have a school down the road). I think I need to get out there and hit that old Ching Jong tonite. If you read the post here today you can see why haha.
I have to leave before I start talking about the beauty of oriental women too and lose my mind!”
Now I see why I sensed we had something in common when you intelligently responded to my post 2 weeks ago regarding how the Chinese might wage the war on Islamic Jihad. You train in Choy Lay Fut and I trained in Wing Chun (Bruce Lee’s Kung Fu). Both came from Shaolin Kung Fu. Glad to know you, my Canadian brother.
Women are good for you! A combination of their sense of softness in sensitivity and your sense of hardness in kung fu training gives you the best of life of a young, unmarried man who is ready for anything.
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN!
at November 17, 2006 12:55 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Plague, Stillfedup and Allies...I tried to follow this thread by you 3....LOL what a f**king mess....ROTFL.
Allies, your turkish friend sucks ...and knows not much Ahmadi...you cannot tar us Ahmadis with the same brush as sunnis.
We are peaceful muslims...you can help us or you can become sunni...I know which I'd prefer
Posted by: Naseem at November 17, 2006 7:39 AM
My dear Naseem
I see by your new response you had no respect for my offer of peace. However besides my exmuslim Turkish friend its STILLFEDUP that helped me the most. She showed me various truths about your faith.
As for becomming Sunni or Ahmadi no thank you.
I'll stick with Christ.
What I prefer is a world without a Qur'an.
Regards,
The Allies SHALL win ;)
at November 17, 2006 8:39 AM
KUNG FU FIGHTER! Thank you kindly. Yes both arts are from the teachings of the excellent and brave Shaolin! As for Bruce Lee -he is the only famous person I have a picture of on my wall. That guy had true class. A gentleman, a scholar (excellent philosophy grad), and of courese a fighter.
Re: women and men yes I understand ying and yang works on many levels. As a Christian I really like Confucius by the way. His wisdom is yet another example of how non_nazi like teachings dominate true spirituality__he had no encounter with missionaries but thru his own searching found the way of peace is what its about which is why i believe Spencers message is so important
Oh you read my other posts on the Chinese? Yes I believe the Chinese will get their democracy soon as the Chinese people understand captalism and have a thirst for the modern world. The rotting old communist regieme will fall and when it does china will eventually emerge as the worlds biggest democracy. The Chinese were great Allies against the imperial Japanese (who like Nazism and militant Islam) got it into their blood to dominate everybody around them. Now that Japan doesnt have those aspirations I know China will become one big rich Hong Kong with democracy and will definitely give the Japanese a run for their money!
As for the current communist regieme there its good for one thing: It will crush the violent Sunni Islamofascism there and is doing this even as I write this. (People forget that just because its not on CNN doesnt mean its not happening! The
communnists are smart enough not to allow journalists there right now). Unfortunately journalists were allowed in Iraq and because Al Quaida knows how to manipulate liberal (idiotic) media it swayed the public against Iraqi invasion. However I have faith in the Americans, they'll send more troops there until the terrorists are crushed and maybe just maybe the Iraqi people can get a shot at running their own country without tyranny in charge.
KUNG FU FIGHTER, please stay in touch. Here is a special email I have set up here for new friends I meet here to keep in touch with me:
Americaningermany,Yankeeboy,PLAUGE_ON_BOTH_HOUSES,STILLFEDUP
and anybody who understands what Jihadwatch and Robert Spencer is trying to accomplish (ie to wake up the world to the truths of a new kind of "Nazism") is welcome to email me. To anybody else: do not email me curses this will only reveal the bankruptcy of your soul and make me nod to myself that yep our enemies are nuts...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
at November 17, 2006 9:00 AM
ps Naseem you will find the people on here are very good people whether we are talking about kung fu fighter or stillfedup or plague_on_both_houses etc but they are not willing to go sleepwalking in life i understand ahmadi is not like sunni but when you say: either ahmadi or sunni you must pick because willing or not islam is going to take over all your countries this is deeply offensive and rightly taken as rude to us how would you like it if we started talking about forcebly taking over pakistan and making everybody over there oh i dont know how about jewish? also when you told the others they should start taking sewing lessons etc i thought that was not very kind we invite discussion here (unlike many islamic sites that erase comments by us poor kafiir)
but we dont really care for such base and personal expressions of insult i think you understand
plus i did not realize you are a lady __> how do you feel about the treatment of islam on women?
at November 17, 2006 9:07 AM
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN ,
You are an exceptional, young infidel with a moderate, reasonable view of Islam and many other things – a rarity on this blog website. The Western world needs more people like you!
I know you are a fighter, not a provoker. Provocation is the dangerous strategy of a loser who doesn’t have enough strength. A fighter finishes his enemy in a few quick kicks and punches, while a provoker does a lot of work to start a fight. Then he goes for a cup of coffee as if there has been nothing happening. His mind is clear and his life is well balanced!
at November 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Kung Fu fighter yes you understand. You are obviously a good student of Wing Chun. We are taught not to start fights only to finish them! Like the Shaolin his mind is calm, he does not hate his enemy he does not get excited over him, but is balanced knowing his enemy is mislead by their own emotions of hate and he moves to neutralize him. (and Islamofascist thinking is the most emotional--you saw how they react in the middle east screaming going crazy, a whole generation of souls lost to shouting and frenzied hate!)
Today I have an early class (I am part time student) so I better get going. Please email me kungfu fighter and other likeminded people.
"By Nature all men are pretty much alike; it is by custom that they are set apart." (Analects of Confucius. Chapter 17, Section 2) --Confucius (551-479 BC)
And we know there are good 'customs' and bad ones.
"By their fruits you shall know them" --Jesus the Christ
see you later KUNGFUFIGHTER and my other infidel friends!
at November 17, 2006 9:57 AM
Naseem - if you're still checking this thread.
From now on when I think of you I'll picture you like this:
http://cremesti.com/krasiva/mixed/half-half/pakistan-german/yasmeen_ghauri/yas2.jpg
Naseem - I hope you are who you say you are, but due to your posting times I don't think you are... When I have confirmation that Pakistan is behind a firewall I'll have the proof too.
at November 17, 2006 11:32 AM
From a post higher up:
"At this time Ahmad claimed that God had begun communicating with him,..."
OMG another lunatic that hears voices!
From another post higher up:
"We are peaceful muslims..."
What an oxymoron! First I read "we are peaceful nazis".
How can one call his religion "peaceful" if their scriptures are full of hate and if their hero/prophet is a vile robber, plunderer, rapist and a warmonger? Can somebody explain me that?
I only see two possible solutions:
1) That person is totally ignorant about his own religion.
2) That person knows about how pervert his hero is but is totally deranged and flatly LIES about his religion.
at November 17, 2006 11:38 AM
naseheem is pissed because we found out her dirty secrets about her devilish sect. They are exactyl like the other muslims. Keen on worldwide destruction
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 11:39 AM
Dropping in for lunch and I again I couldnt keep away from the net and this site. lol.
A_PLAGUE_ON_BOTH_HOUSES if you picture Naseem like that dont let it deter you from the unpretty things her 'pretty' mouth says my friend!
My email above works and thank you to SecretKafir (who never posts he tells me only reads) for sending a whole number of links of all the kinds of islam just now.
STILLFEDUP maybe Naseem believes that you (like spencer) have some black zionist arts performing magic on her and she is looking up a spell to counter it. lol.
To muslims who are reading this: we have no zionist arts but we have the TRUTH on our sides. thats the thing eh. Those damn infidels and kafir --there they go again bringing up irrelevant little concerns like the idea of TRUTH and JUSTICE and FAIRPLAY. Life's a bitch ain't it?
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 11:49 AM
read your qur'an and hadiths kiddies and then come and tell me Islamofascism is a religion of peace.
This is 1938 all over again.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 11:51 AM
Al Saheed Al Kuffar
- if you look at the historical quotes from the leader of the Ahamdi... you will see that this latest leader is just as delusional as the first leader [Mohammed.] For your inspection:
just read what the founder of the [Ahmadi] movement said
http://www.jamiat.org.za/is_qadshia.html
1890: He claimed 'I am the replica of Jesus.'
1892: 'Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was the final prophet. I do not lay claim to prophethood. I am the son of Mary.'
1893: 'God speaks to me and gives guidance for reforms'
1894: 'Jesus was a liar and his grandmother was a whore.' [note: where did that come from & why? Also: if he's the son of Mary... he is the grandson of a whore by his statement of 1892. ]
1902: He declared: 'I am superior to all prophets including Muhammad 'The Qur'an and my words are from Allah.'
1904: He declared 'I am god and Lord also Krishna'
Posted by: StillFedUp
This is what Naseem represents. Her leader is a charismatic sociopath with delusions of grandeur just like Mohammed, Hitler, Napoleon, Jim Jones, Charles Manson and the rest of the long line. Naseem follows a man who claimed to be the image of Jesus, but from the same mother, the god Krishna, the superior of Mohammed and so on.
These are the statements of the delusional. Mental hospitals used to be filled with his cousins until the 1970s... now they are on the streets of the United States. Pick one of our street people and follow them religiously - You'll do no worse than the Ahmadis.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 17, 2006 11:54 AM
here is what other muslims think of ahmadi:
http://alhafeez.org/rashid/overview.htm
A doctor from the UAE criticizes them for not believing in jihad. Spencer is right of course, otward (fighting to convert) jihad is a very mainstream doctrine.
for those of you who have the time try some fun voting surveys on the craziness of Islamofasicsm! You can also add your own voting survey. All at the site of those former muslims, the lovable apostates:
Ahmed and Mohammed of Ahemed-Moehammed voting cave!
http://ahmed-mohammed.mindswap.net/cgi-bin/vote.cgi?action=showvote&topic=12
PS one question mentions Robert Spencer.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 12:02 PM
sorry here is the main survey site ignore last link it leads only to one question
http://ahmed-mohammed.mindswap.net/cgi-bin/vote.cgi?action=showvote&topic=10
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 12:04 PM
arrgh wrong link again!
here it is:
http://ahmed-mohammed.mindswap.net/cgi-bin/vote.cgi
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 12:05 PM
Plague you are brilliant
this sentence is priceless
This is what Naseem represents. Her leader is a charismatic sociopath with delusions of grandeur just like Mohammed, Hitler, Napoleon, Jim Jones, Charles Manson and the rest of the long line. Naseem follows a man who claimed to be the image of Jesus, but from the same mother, the god Krishna, the superior of Mohammed and so on.
These are the statements of the delusional. Mental hospitals used to be filled with his cousins until the 1970s... now they are on the streets of the United States. Pick one of our street people and follow them religiously - You'll do no worse than the Ahmadis.
BTW, naseem is doing damages on daniel pipes too
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/66315
she's THAT stupid to copy and paste stuff that she posts here, there too.
pathetic
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 12:24 PM
LOL I love that quote ! charismatic sociopath lol.
Shes on there too? my my what a busy little beagle we are.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 12:33 PM
yes but go to read the link, it's copied and pasted of something she wrote here on this topic
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 12:46 PM
STILLFEDUP yes I read it and yep its copied and pasted -this is crazy. WHAT? she thinks people on the net cant see what she is doing????
Come oooon Naseem!
PS
Naseem also said in it:
Also I can see the marriage rule of 4 women to 1 man coming in, since your own women do such a pathetic job of having adequate children for the future.
How can a normal woman want to share her man with 3 others? have Muslim men twisted muslim womens minds sooo much? This is UNfreakingBELIEVABLE.
at November 17, 2006 12:53 PM
"STILLFEDUP yes I read it and yep its copied and pasted -this is crazy. WHAT? she thinks people on the net cant see what she is doing????"
what can we do, she's shameless.
Funny thing is that she gets her ass kicked there too.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:02 PM
To
Americaningermany hilarious huh?
Naseem yes I am still shaking my head at how muslim women can accept sharing thier husbands with other women. It makes me so #$32 angry. I want women to be naturally jealous (as men should be) of thier spouse. Its shows the kids that mom and dad love each other. Can you imagine a little boy with three moms and 1 dad? He'll think wow women are just little toys for my use ...etc and another wife beating piece of subhuman camel dung is born.
To STILLFEDUP I think Naseem knows you are on here so she is not here again. Hey I know how much of a friendly girl Naseem is with you have you thought of writing a response on Daniel Pipes to expose her little cut up job?
To my friends who have emailed me out there: I emailed you all back. take aTO look.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 1:02 PM
Funny thing is that she gets her ass kicked there too.
Posted by: StillFedUp [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 17, 2006 01:02 PM
-------
shes a real sucker for punishment. I wonder how she thinks about men BEATHING their wives? Allah said its okay after all.
What a disease islamic mindset is. The more people learn about it the more it will dispel. I think millions of socalled muslims will live it eventually. It must be really hard to live under such a system of pure unadulterated hate.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 1:05 PM
hey i wrote you too
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:06 PM
I wrote again ALLIES
where are you in germany americaningermany? are you there with USA army?
It's not the first time naseem do copy and paste from here to danielpipes.org
But today/yesterday we found out something important. The ahmadi sect is just as lying as the rest of the umma.
Strange they are considered heretics, they have the same goal.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:15 PM
Maybe Ramon is her husband and poor Naseem is like wife no.2 or slave girl no 5 or something. But ah wait Ramon is a Sunni or Shiite and Naseem is a kafiir to him so no go there. War makes strange bedfellows eh Naseem? Who would have thought a guy who thicks you are not even a real muslim is backing you up? Shouldnt be surprised the Nazis did accept the imperial japanese as fellow Axis in WWII even though the Nazis considered all Nonaryans inferiors.
Be on the lookout for Nariz and A_Khohkar also. They just loooooooooooove Robert Spencer and the truths we freely talk about here. oh yes yes. Can you feel the love?
at November 17, 2006 1:18 PM
STILLFEDUP Shiites and Sunnis have the same goal (you know Iran wants to help Sunni Al Quaida out big time even though Iran is Shiia) but they also hate each other so I guess like Nazi/imperial Japan little demons who hate each other dont mind joining forces to fight for Father Satan after all. A Roman Catholic monk ones said: "forces of evil love to join for the greater darkness but only a little light will shatter them easily." I cant find who said the quote on the net, its very obscure saying though very apt.
Argh! STILLFEDUP I still did not get your email. Thats okay. I dont understand it though I got others including one from SecretKafir who claims to be in Australia (much farther than you are to me).
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 1:27 PM
if that too doesnt work then dont worry about it. if you have any resources for me to check out post them on here. Sorry for any hassle!
at November 17, 2006 1:28 PM
americaningermany
re:trolls --so true. You know at least we and Robert Spencer LEAVE people trolls and all free to talk on here abou the topics posted --in the ISLAMIC sites they wipe off any quotes you might put on there when you talk with them that reveal what Islam is about. Thats been my experience. I think most muslims just dont read the quran/hadiths .
That is fascinating --if you have a religion dont you want to read ALL the scriptures of it?
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 1:32 PM
StillFedUp
Grazie per l'elogio gentile. Mai non diamo in su la lotta.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 17, 2006 1:38 PM
Stuttgard and their county was one of the few districts in germany that VOTED for the test for immigrants.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:43 PM
allies, i wrote to both addresses again
thanks plague
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:48 PM
well you know that it's against the constitution to say no to certain religions, unless they are declared hostile, also because those liars could be lying and saying they are christians when they are not.
I heard in my countries that there are some people coming from muslim countries claiming they are gay (a lie) and get refugee as persecuted people.
If a muslim can pretend he's gay, he can also pretend he's hindu.
However, the power is in the hands of the people. If all people collectively STOPPED hiring muslims, they'd be unemployed and at least feel very UNWELCOMED here.
Posted by: StillFedUp at November 17, 2006 1:56 PM
Naseem i have found muslim as a group are very closeminded and there faith is very close in thought to what hitler belived in ww2 and it was bosnain muslims who quite willingly joined hittlers death head ss and because your profit married a 9 year old muslims have been marrying a raping children for 1700 years heck it was not untill 1960 the last country in the world to out law slavrey saudi arabia did so but even today in is just a small fine and peaple do keep slaves over in the midle east because mudhamad did heck even that pervert komanie in his l little green book says
If a man who has married a girl who has not reached puberty possesses her sexually before her ninth birthday, inflicting traumatisms upon her, he has no right to repeat such an act with her.
If a man sodomizes the son, brother, or father of his wife after their marriage, the marriage remains valid.http://www.prophetofdoom.net/article.aspx?g=412&i=412001
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 17, 2006 2:17 PM
Quote:
Naseem i have found muslim as a group are very closeminded and there faith is very close in thought to what hitler belived in ww2
posted by: islamakapigeaters [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 17, 2006 02:17 PM
-------------------
close to what Hitler thought in WW2 ..exactly thats why the Allies have to wake up again...
Unfortunately why might be fighing mostly internal wars against jihadist suicide bombers and such this time around instead of a regular conventional war. But I bet once govts wake up (and Naseem they will because WE THE PEOPLE will wake them) we will make short business of this Islamic nonesense...
CAIR officials reading this: UP YOURS
at November 17, 2006 2:38 PM
STILLFEDUP I got it thanks I responded. ISLAMAKAPIGEATERS and ISLAMSFORLOSERS you are all welcome to email me if you like and trade links or updates on this political Pestilence of the world.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 17, 2006 2:42 PM
and of course Americaningermany, A_PLAGUE_BOTH_HOUSES, and any other lover of democratic freedom is welcome to email too.
I want to get my exmuslim Turkish friend on here but he is ..ahem..shall we say (having grown up in the islamic system) VERY VERY ..uh...graphic in his opposition of this religion of peace. Unless Spencer bans him for the language he will use youll hopefully see him here soon to (though he hates the internet--long story).
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at Novembe
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