Hmmmm....it MIGHT be desireable in SOME cases???

It WOULD be desireable in ALL cases to pull a muslim males penis out by the root, or at least cut the last half of it off.

MMmmmHHmmm! That would be desireable.

Posted by: freewoman at November 27, 2006 9:43 AM

Stories about this or that aspect of the treatment of Muslim women by Muslim men may have the effect, especially if they seem to indicate what most would consider to be progress, of keeping the main topic, in the end the only topic, off-center: the treatment of, and attitudes toward, non-Muslims, by Muslims. That is what, in the end, is what counts -- not whether this or that Muslim woman can wear a burqini, go to school, or even study chemistry or biology or nuclear physics in England so as to then return home to help build deadlier weapons for Saddam Hussein or some other Muslim ruler or regime. After all, Col. Qaddafy has a presidential guard consisting of well-armed Libyan women, none of them in burqas. From the viewpoint of Infidels, should the existence of Dr. Germs or Dr. Anthrax or those amazon-bezonians make us feel altogether better aboutr progress in the Muslim world, or not?

Not.

Posted by: Hugh at November 27, 2006 10:07 AM

Any day now we'll get some speeches from these bigshot clerics saying that jihad is bad too, right? But then again I shouldn't hold my breath since they always tell us Islam has been hijacked by a few kooks.

By the way, any reaction from Australia's "uncovered meat man" on this statement? This will probably provoke more stupidity from him.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 27, 2006 10:39 AM

I will give Islam ZERO CREDIT for getting rid of female genital mutilation. They are doing it for PR reasons. They know how barbaric it looks to everyone who isn't a brainwashed Muslim.

To be fair, this butchery is practiced in Africa by non Muslims.

Posted by: dennisw at November 27, 2006 10:41 AM

This is all PR fluff. They will do nothing to stop the practice. There will always be "desirable reasons" to continue the practice.

It is symbolic of what Islam is all about. It never changes.

Posted by: credit man at November 27, 2006 10:51 AM

I would really care had these same Nazi scholars not declared the Blood Libel to be undisputable fact.

The Nazis also refused genital mutilation, it doesn't make them human though does it?

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 27, 2006 1:54 PM

anyone that thinks removing parts of a woman's genitalia will stop a person from being promiscuous as a very sick mind , a person's sex organs cannot think promiscuity is in the mind and has been shown that a person sex drive is controlled by the brain not the clitoris. So it is long past time for this barbaric practice was tossed in the dustbin of history the one problem is that the mothers who underwent circumcision may well feel jealousy for their daughters that are fully able to enjoy making love with their husbands.

Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 27, 2006 2:11 PM

Conversion to Islam is terribly fashionable over here in Europe.

I wonder when, say, Yvonne Ridley is going to sign up to have her clitoris hacked off...

Maybe she reads this website and will invoke this article as a means to avoid going in for her own mutilation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3673730.stm

Yvonne Ridley: The Koran makes it crystal clear that women are equal.

Which version of the Koran was she reading I wonder? Readers digest highlights? Or perhaps the question should be, equal to *what*??

Posted by: Alex at November 27, 2006 2:25 PM

Conversion to Islam is terribly fashionable over here in Europe.

Posted by: Alex at November 27, 2006 02:25 PM

Gee, there sure are a lot of dummies over there.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 27, 2006 4:10 PM

To be fashionable, doesn't there have to be something appealing about it? I don't consider getting mutilated (and except for the childbirth problems, the problems that go along with being mutilated), losing my sexuality, having to wear a black garbage bag over myself, allowing my husband to beat me or his slave girls, or even having sister wives very appealing.

ISLAMSFORLOSERS has it right. One would have to be a raving idiot to join this cult.

Posted by: freewoman at November 27, 2006 5:14 PM

If what they do is female circumcision, then male circumcision would leave the boy with a ragged stump.

Language. Why does the accepted choice of lingo always fall Islam's way?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 27, 2006 5:33 PM

Her first thought as the furious young Taliban came running towards her? "Wow - you're gorgeous," she says.
--- Yvonne Ridley upon being exposed as an Infidel chick journalist sneaking into Afghanistan

The Koran makes it crystal clear that women are equal.
--- Yvonne Ridley, brand new Moslima, using turnspeak already

I have joined what I consider to be the biggest and best family in the world. When we stick together we are absolutely invincible.
--- Yvonne Ridley, brand new Moslima, using military terminology to describe her great big new family

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 27, 2006 6:06 PM

"Genital mutilation or female circumcision often robs women of sensitivity in their sexual organs."

Really? How often?

From: http://www.path.org/files/FGM-The-Facts.htm

• Cultural values and ambiguities make women's sexuality very complex. This is also an area that has not been widely studied. Although it is difficult to verify reports of women's sexual experiences, physical complications from FGM often impede sexual enjoyment. FGM destroys much or all of the vulval nerve endings, delaying arousal or impairing orgasm.38 Lacerations, loss of skin elasticity, or development of neuroma (a tumor or mass growing from a nerve) can lead to painful intercourse. In a 1993 Sudanese study, 5.5 percent of women interviewed experienced painful intercourse while 9.3 percent of them reported having difficult or impossible penetration.39
• In 1981, 1,545 Sudanese women who had undergone the operation were interviewed. Fifty percent of them said that they did not enjoy sex at all and only accepted it as a duty.40

And these are the women who lived through the torture. My own sense of what the interviewees report as constituting 'enjoying sex' is that they are lying. Hey, if I were going to get beaten for reporting the truth .. I too would lie about what I 'enjoyed'. These women are supposed to 'enjoy' slavery, for heaven's sake.

Posted by: Daisytoo at November 27, 2006 6:29 PM

Oh and one other thing about:

"Muslim scholars call female genital mutilation un-Islamic"

Don't they say exactly the same thing about all sorts of atrocities committed routinely by Muslims?

Posted by: Daisytoo at November 27, 2006 6:33 PM

I wish God would simply turn all Muslim men into Muslim women for just one week. One day after that week had passed Islam would be gone forever.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 27, 2006 10:57 PM

What, no fatwas against it? Then it won't stop. The stupid women are usually the ones who subject their poor little girls to this hideous torture despite the physical and mental torment they personally suffered from it. It is a tradition, an islamic ritual, one more depraved, inhuman, satanic anomaly of islam. They probably believe that being butchered is perfectly normal. After all, women are filthy and evil and should suffer accordingly.

The hatred this culture has for women is amazing, and most of them cannot even see it! I can understand how an Afghan peasant might never question her pathetic plight because she won't see or be exposed to anything else, but how can muslimas born and raised in the West accept their inferior status without resentment? Islamic brainwashing must be the most powerful force on earth.

Posted by: Susanp at November 28, 2006 12:33 AM

More on FGM:

http://www.challenging-islam.org/articles/circumcision.htm

http://middle-east-info.org/gateway/genocide/index.htm

Posted by: CGW at November 28, 2006 5:39 AM

Mohammed was abandoned by his mother on several occassions. One of her replacements got rid of him because she thought him 'possessed'.

Mohammed as a child had been rejected by his mother and other caregiving women. He did not know a mother's love. Later in life he would not pray at his mother's grave. The reason he said, was because she died an infidel. He would not do one kind thing for her or her memory.

Muslim women from the past, in the present and in the future pay for the sins of Mohammed's mother. They are being punished because Mohammed was abused and neglected by his mother and other women nursemaids.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 28, 2006 10:35 AM

A Plague on Both Houses

I am going to look it up (can you suggest a direction?). I do think Mohammed, as an adult, was mad as a hatter and evil to boot. If he had a severe mental illness as a child he could have been an impossible handful for the most loving mother or nursemaids to handle. Of course, his mother may have been mad as well. He would not be the first psychopath to find his megalomaniacal way to power, and certainly not the last - but, the sheer destructiveness (and longevity) of his heritage is breathtaking.

(Saddam Hussein was routinely beaten and humiliated by his stepfather while his mother stood ineffectively by .. but child abuse (and casual divorce which lends itself to such abuse) is such a central motif of Islamic culture that it's hard to credit his childhood trauma alone towards his supreme evil .. although I'm sure it gave him a shove in the wrong direction).

For some comic relief, may I suggest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiIQoxbgTpw

Posted by: Daisytoo at November 28, 2006 1:18 PM

In reading about Muhammad's early life, it appears that there was ample time to put him in a sack and drown him in a creek.

Such is the pity.

Posted by: credit man at November 28, 2006 9:36 PM

I just read about Yvonne Ridley's conversion. I really don't think that Islam has gained much.

Here's one statement that caught my eye. "How liberating is it to be judged for your mind and not the size of your bust or length of your legs."

I guess that I'm very lucky to work with women that already realize that they are admired for their minds. I'm also happy to note that they are very well off in the other mentioned departments.

And so it goes.

Posted by: credit man at November 28, 2006 9:47 PM

Why is it that millions of Muslims still have to be told that female genital mutilation is not prescribed by the Koran, when I, a non-Muslim, have known this for over twenty years?

Posted by: angloirishslav at November 28, 2006 11:39 PM

A Plague on Both Houses wrote: "Mohammed was abandoned by his mother on several occassions. One of her replacements got rid of him because she thought him 'possessed'.

Mohammed as a child had been rejected by his mother and other caregiving women. He did not know a mother's love. Later in life he would not pray at his mother's grave. The reason he said, was because she died an infidel. He would not do one kind thing for her or her memory.

Muslim women from the past, in the present and in the future pay for the sins of Mohammed's mother. They are being punished because Mohammed was abused and neglected by his mother and other women nursemaids.

Look it up if you don't believe me."

Don't get too Freudian in blaming it all on the mother, Plague. Perhaps Muhammed was just born evil, and his poor mother just couldn't "bond" with him, as they put it today, because he was such a horrible little shit. It is one of the dirty secrets of motherhood that some children are, sadly, more difficult to love than others, even by their mothers. Read the devastating novel "We Need to Talk About Kevin" about a nice, liberal mother's tortured and guilt-ridden relationship with her psychopathic teenage son, who has killed his father, his sister, and several schoolmates. It puts the lie to the whole "Nurture is everything" stance. Sometimes it really is just nature; some people just seem to come straight into this world unable to love or be loved. Perhaps Mr. M. was one of those.

Posted by: angloirishslav at November 28, 2006 11:49 PM

Eyvonne ridley was hoping for the ultimate scoop when she dumped her little daughter before shooting off to pakistan / afghanistan.

Married 3 times, what a loser, she says she knows where there are women deprived in the n east uk, well I live there, most are far from deprived, Depraved yes, promiscuous yes, drunkards yes, sluts yes, benefit breeders yes.

Ridley is a sad loser, maybe she can be enlightened by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, now SHE speaks from experience.

JVB

Posted by: Johnny Boy at November 29, 2006 10:19 AM

angloirishslav

I don't blame Muhammed's mother for Islam... I blame Muhammed. We all have free will and the choices we make.

I am enough of a realist to know that most people can't rise above the baggage they carry with them from family life and their childhoods.

What I'm trying to point out is this: Muhammed had been damaged early in life. He didn't know a mother's love. He was unwanted as a child. He had no advocate that cared about him for any length of time.

When he had power he chose to punish women for the sins of his mother and her neglect. He chose to use power to harm women especially. His childhood shows why, but it was all his doing.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 29, 2006 2:52 PM

Plague on Both Houses

Thanks for all the pertinent info. For all the talk of Islam "improving women's lives" Muslim women by and large seem to be living the same hellish existence today as back in Mohammed's day. Consider Augustine of Hippo's mother, Monica, who back in the 700's used to attempt to persuade the women she met daily at the well to change their ways .. these woman would meet and boast about the black and blue marks their husband's gave them .. thinking of them as status symbols.

It's erroneous to think there is some default mode in females that naturally objects to mistreatment - kindness really must be inculcated .. otherwise, I think people are more or less naturally barbaric, as is evidenced routinely by members of the ROP.

Posted by: Daisytoo at November 29, 2006 7:49 PM