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"Sharia law is spreading as authority wanes," by Joshua Rozenburg for The Telegraph:
Islamic sharia law is gaining an increasing foothold in parts of Britain, a report claims.
[...]
Mr Yusuf said a group of Somali youths were arrested on suspicion of stabbing another Somali teenager. The victim's family told the police it would be settled out of court and the suspects were released on bail.
A hearing was convened and elders ordered the assailants to compensate their victim. "All their uncles and their fathers were there," said Mr Yusuf. "So they all put something towards that and apologised for the wrongdoing."
Although Scotland Yard had no information about that case yesterday, a spokesman said it was common for the police not to proceed with assault cases if the victims decided not to press charges.
However, the spokesman said cases of domestic violence, including rape, might go to trial regardless of the victim's wishes.
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country.. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
Sharia's great strength was the effectiveness of its penalties, he said. Those who appeared before religious courts would avoid re-offending so as not to bring shame on their families.
Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism".
Dr Prakash Shah, a senior lecturer in law at Queen Mary University of London, said such tribunals "could be more effective than the formal legal system".
In his book Islam in Britain, Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, says there is an "alternative parallel unofficial legal system" that operates in the Muslim community on a voluntary basis.
"Sharia courts now operate in most larger cities, with different sectarian and ethnic groups operating their own courts that cater to their specific needs according to their traditions," he says. These are based on sharia councils, set up in Britain to help Muslims solve family and personal problems.
Catering to "specific needs according to their traditions." No mention of the nastier penalties and miscarriages of justice by Western standards (such as requiring four male witnesses to prove a rape has occurred, following the Qur'anic criterion used for establishing sexual offenses under Sharia law).
Sharia councils may grant divorces under religious law to a woman whose husband refuses to complete a civil divorce by declaring his marriage over. There is evidence that these councils are evolving into courts of arbitration.
Faizul Aqtab Siddiqi, a barrister and principal of Hijaz College Islamic University, near Nuneaton, Warwicks, said this type of court had advantages for Muslims. "It operates on a low budget, it operates on very small timescales and the process and the laws of evidence are far more lenient and it's less awesome an environment than the English courts," he said.
Mr Siddiqi predicted that there would be a formal network of Muslim courts within a decade.
"I was speaking to a police officer who said we no longer have the bobby on the beat who will give somebody a slap on the wrist.
"So I think there is a case to be made under which the elders sit together and reprimand people, trying to get them to change."
But it certainly won't stop there if allowed to continue.
Posted by Marisol at November 29, 2006 12:20 AM
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Im glad they are talking about it and the link was on drudge , an amzing devlopment , Im pretty sure it is way to late.
Posted by: KAOSKTRL![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 29, 2006 1:25 AM
This is the 'Lebanization' of England, where a state within a state is taking root. Very bad precedent. I'm surprised legal theory in England allows for this. This is one step closer to letting Sharia exist like a cancer within the English legal system. Justice is subjugated to islamic tribalism, bad precedent.
at November 29, 2006 1:33 AM
Where would a native born Brit Muslim be deported to?
Posted by: PRCS at November 29, 2006 1:43 AM
Muslims of course should be given special treatment, as they are the moral equivelant of Nazi supermen!
Posted by: TheVoiceofTruth at November 29, 2006 1:53 AM
Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism".
Dr Prakash Shah, a senior lecturer in law at Queen Mary University of London, said such tribunals "could be more effective than the formal legal system".
When in Northern Ireland Communities used to knee-cap or tar-and-feather criminal elements it was regarded as barbaric and illegal...............no doubt the Third World approaches such matters in a more generous spirit
Posted by: Voyager at November 29, 2006 2:26 AM
Of course this worthy shit stops when the crimes are against non Muslims and the rest of society is met with a wall of hypocritical silence and claims that muslim perpetrators are being "victimised".
Posted by: Turbinehead at November 29, 2006 2:28 AM
Very discouraging. Eurabia keeps getting more obvious with each passing day and our leaders remain clueless. Look where this leads in Malaysia and Indonesia.
Posted by: John Sobieski at November 29, 2006 2:37 AM
The U.K is beginning to look more and more like the Balkans each day.
It is of serious concern that there is a growing movement to establish an "alternative parallel unofficial legal system" to operate in the British Muslim community.
Sharia is one of the primary reasons that Muslims fail to integrate in Britian.
Churchill must be rolling over in his grave.
A legal system that is based on sharia is fundamentally opposed to British civil law.
Sharia courts are akin to Kangaroo courts where is very little due process.
In Sharia courts, the Koran has the final word in each and every case.
Civil laws based upon Sharia are draconian and don't belong in any civilized society.
Sharia is inherently dysfuntional for any society.
Sharia is not a divine rule of laws as many Muslims wrongly claim.
Sharia was effective in establishing a rule of law for barbaric tribes in the Arabia Peninsula during the 9th century. But it has no place in the U.K. or the west.
Posted by: Johnathan at November 29, 2006 2:39 AM
Hey! Why have a legal system at all. Let's all join our own tribes, and get our elders to discuss our punishment when we commit a crime. Yeah! That's it! Let's all adopt the Iraqi system of justice.
Posted by: ofcourse at November 29, 2006 3:37 AM
Where would a native born Brit Muslim be deported to?
Posted by: PRCS
Saudi Arabia.. Pakistan.. Turkey.. yemen... somalia. Shall I go on?
WHO CARES **WHERE** They deport them to??!
Like the Nike slogan sez: JUST DO IT!!!!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 3:46 AM
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country.. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
so what if a cultural thing in our culture we may law and expect all others whether nativeborn are immigrants do the same. As an immigrant to the USA and Canada I found there were differences in the laws but as an immigrant it was my responsibility to assimilate the customs and laws of my adopted country. It's long past time the a Muslim immigrants learned respect the laws of the land even though they are not based on the Koran. As they are in Somalia a good example of this is how Somalia cab drivers have refused to take passengers were blind and use a seeing eye dog, because the Koran says dogs are unclean but our laws say guide dogs or service dogs can go anywhere they need to go with their handlers. And as a group immigrants are expected to respect and learn the laws of the new country.
at November 29, 2006 4:02 AM
This is nothing new they are just formalising a situation that already exists. It was reported in the Sunday Times recently that Somalis are “over- represented" in knife crime anyway.
Earlier this year a Somali schoolgirl was given probation for slashing a classmates face with a razor blade, three-times, from forehead to chin marking her for life. An expert in Somali culture explained to the court that it was quite normal for women in Somalia to scratch each other's faces. The reason for the attack was given as the fight the previous day which the Somali had lost - but one or two reports said the English girl had actually stopped the Somali mistreating a slightly retarded classmate. Needless to say the Somali family were fleeing oppression in war-torn Somalia and the civil rights lobby have lined up to prevent them being sent back there.
There are also reckoned to be several “honour” killings the year in Britain. These are only taken up when there is no option such as the girl whose screams were heard down the street when she was being hacked to death in the hallway of her parents' home. As to the rest, said to number between 3 and 12 the year, the police have been “investigating” these for as long as I can remember. There are periodic reports that they are definitely going to do something about them but nobody has ever been prosecuted.
at November 29, 2006 5:37 AM
The MCB are blatently lying again.
From the BBC: "The UK's most prominent Muslim organisation, the Muslim Council of Britain, opposes the idea, saying it will not support a dual legal system."
Yet a main affiliate of the MCB is the Islamic Sharia Council, which is dedicated to exactly that.
Posted by: Bert Preast at November 29, 2006 5:37 AM
You'd think they'd be better at it by now, eh?
Posted by: Bert Preast at November 29, 2006 5:55 AM
"Although Scotland Yard had no information about that case yesterday, a spokesman said it was common for the police not to proceed with assault cases if the victims decided not to press charges."
SECOND THOUGHTS
True BUT ONLY if there is no serious injury and/or a weapon is not used. If a knife is used prosecution is normally inevitable. This statement is a standard half-truth intended to avoid the issue.
Posted by: Fred at November 29, 2006 6:11 AM
Stop it.
Posted by: FreeSpeech at November 29, 2006 6:59 AM
Where would native born Brit Muslims be deported to?
Posted by: PRCS at November 29, 2006 7:21 AM
Where would a native born Brit be deported to?
Give them a one way ticket to the haj in Saudi Arabia, and make sure that they don't come back.
I'm sure that the western born reverts, especially the women, would just LOVE to live in Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Voltaire at November 29, 2006 7:23 AM
Can't you just hear the crying and whining if the muslims had to leave the comfort and beauty of Britain to go to their parent's cesspool of a homeland? They LOATHE living with infidels in modern society. Hehe....I would love to see the look on their faces if they had to face REALITY of living in the middle east.
They would be thinking it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Posted by: freewoman at November 29, 2006 7:41 AM
"...then Britain should change laws to allow those born in Britain to also be deported."
Posted by: PRCS at November 29, 2006 7:48 AM
"Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism"."
This is a bone-chilling development. Modern nation states are founded on the principle of one law for everyone and that no one is above the law.
Once such a system is established it is inevitable that it will seek to increase jurisdiction over a larger number of issues and will eventually be used to 1) allow Muslims to circumvent the British judicial system, and worse 2) undermine the British legal system and (further) disrupt civil cohesion. This is likely an underlying motivation for establishing an independent system. After all, as others have posted above, the devote Muslim is loyal to the ummah, not the nation in which they reside. Anything they can do to strengthen the ummah and weaken the state the better.
I'd be interested to see statistics on how many people utilize this new legal system and the breakdown of the type of issues being dealt with.
Posted by: bluezion at November 29, 2006 8:32 AM
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country.. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
I'm making my own damn laws then. If it's good enough for cesspoolians then it's good enough for me. My laws will be even more draconian than sharia if anybody trespasses on my property-especially cesspoolians. And I will expect the government to butt out. For me, it's a cultural thing.
What insanity!!!!!
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 29, 2006 8:38 AM
I fear for women's rights in such parallel legal system. British law caters for equality of men and women, whereas Sharia does not support equality in any conceivable way. Nope, this is not the way to go, but we already knew that.
Posted by: Jan Vink at November 29, 2006 9:05 AM
The British used to feel this way about competing laws. Sir Charles Napier had this to say about the Indian practice of Suttee, or widow burning:
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks, and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”
at November 29, 2006 10:38 AM
It's a slippery slope alright. On the one hand it does address something that has been lacking in the UK for some time, a sense of community. On the other, it has the potential to entrench a ghetto mentality that put the community beyond the powers of the common law.
Posted by: TooBad at November 29, 2006 11:01 AM
Dear British Lawyers and Solicitors,
Don't you realize that alternative courts will de-legitimize you? You won't be able to live the posh lifestyle you've become accustomed to. This is not a good thing for lawyers.
( My God, how perverse Islam is... I'm actually trying to help lawyers! )
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 29, 2006 12:09 PM
Off topic from Spain:
Spanish school cancels Christmas
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at November 29, 2006 12:48 PM
It's a tribal thing - you wouldn't understand.
Posted by: MP at November 29, 2006 1:13 PM
Here is an idea, tell every Muslim who does not immediately renounce supreme loyalty to the Umma and the Jihadist Doctrine that they have 3 days to put their affairs in order, before being forced out. Or, do what the US did in WWII, take every foreign national from states known to be hostile to the West, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, ect, and have them interred for the duration of this war. Use my above mentioned policy on the Muslims who are natives of the country. I think this would solve many problems in Europe and the US.
Posted by: Hebrew_Watcher at November 29, 2006 1:14 PM
Re: Spanish school cancels Christmas.
How exquisitely politically correct
to surrender you own culture to make certain
that nobody feels left out. How long before this
spineless bunch are all wearing burkas?
at November 29, 2006 1:23 PM
I anxiously await the first Sharia case to go before the Supreme Court.
With these 9 brilliant men and women at the helm, I expect nothing but the worst. In other words, Sharia. Here's why:
Harvard Law
Harvard Law
Harvard Law
Harvard Law
Yale Law
Yale Law
Northwestern Law
Stanford Law
Columbia Law
Why? Cuz, people who attend fancy finishing schools actually believe the pretzel logic that's taken over since 1968.
A normal, ambitious person would as a judge have the requisite skepticism, judgement --- and love of the Constitution, freedom, equality, and opportunity --- to reject Sharia law that will be proposed for America in the fake lawsuits inexorably on their way.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 29, 2006 1:32 PM
They are taking over. Slyly and slowly they are taking our country away from us. The british will soon be displaced throughout the world. Who will worry about our human rights when it happens? It is all a nightmare.
Posted by: Alan(UK) at November 29, 2006 1:48 PM
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country.. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
Then why did you leave your country & settle in another? EVERYONE who feels this way should just go back to the old country & leave the our culture alone.
Posted by: clipper at November 29, 2006 3:22 PM
I simple love the “ Us Somalis” bit. You can bet your life on it if they tried to deport him, you would hear the cry “ You can't do that to me I am British” in the space of two seconds flat. Mind you if you can't deport them then you can at least intern them, which will happen if a civil war breaks out. My personal preference is to build an internment camp on Rockall a British island in the North Atlantic. I am sure most of the readers would agree with me it would provide ideal accommodation, a delightful sea view with a bracing sea breeze, where they could live in peace with all the bird life, fortunately there are no swans there. Here is a link so you can check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall
Posted by: Holger Dansker at November 29, 2006 4:04 PM
Somalians are notorious where we live for violence (particularly involving knives and rapes).
The politicised police force do not act to protect us against them. The police largely let them get away with it all. If they do get caught (like the Somalian girl who slashed the Sheffield school girl's face: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=958472006) the legal system let them off anyway. We are not allowed to protect ourselves. The media hush it all up. The Government tell us it is enrichment.
at November 29, 2006 4:55 PM
Jan III Sobieski must be turning in his grave... apparently all was for naught.
Posted by: US_infidel at November 29, 2006 5:50 PM
Hi American! What's wrong with my English? I've only had one beer, hardly any typos!
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 29, 2006 7:43 PM
Blondie - What brand of beer?
Posted by: MP at November 29, 2006 8:34 PM
Carlsberg! It's Danish!
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 29, 2006 8:40 PM
Alan - "They are taking over..." They lack the strength to take anything that is not freely given by British politicians and your "intellectual" elites. Don't give up! Fight back whenever you can. Write and speak to educate your fellow Brits. Attack and mock the multiculturalists, dhimmis, and jihadists striving to steal your land and demolish your cultural heritage. You owe these interlopers nothing but a quick boot in the arse.
Posted by: MP at November 29, 2006 8:46 PM
Blondie - Great stuff, we can get it easily on this side of the pond, and I've been drinking it in place of Heineken of late.
Posted by: MP at November 29, 2006 8:48 PM
MP, it is good beer. I only started buying it after the Danish cartoons. I try to buy as much Danish produce as I can now. A lot of the Danish goods available here are quite fattening (cookies, butter, beer, etc.), but I'm still slim, so no harm done there!
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 29, 2006 9:30 PM
at November 30, 2006 12:22 AM
EnglishBlondie
Very, very interesting link! They have been doing this for 6 years and it has never been mentioned in the MSM!
I notice also they say "Makkah" which I had never seen before, not the usual "Mecca". I suppose they needed to make clear they were not sending people to the Bingo halls.
NOTE In the UK "Mecca" is the name of a chain of gaming and dance halls which has been going for 50+ years. They would never be allowed to use the name now.
Posted by: Fred at November 30, 2006 1:13 AM
This story is on the front page of today's Express:
http://www.express.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=793
"Dr Patrick Sookhdeo of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity said: “Sharia courts now operate in most larger cities, with different sectarian and ethnic groups operating their own courts that cater to their specific needs according to their tradition.
“The Government has not been straight about this. It has it’s own sharia advisers and it has already introduced measures that are compliant with sharia law.
"Muslim communities are creating their own infrastructure based on sharia law. A Muslim community can now function within its own society on every level.”
The Tory spokesman for homeland security Patrick Mercer said: “This is complete nonsense. If you want to live under sharia law you should go to a country where it holds sway.” "
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 30, 2006 1:26 PM
I have no idea if this is true or not, but here is the report:
http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=13372&grp=18&cat=84
at November 30, 2006 3:31 PM
Blacks are fighting Asians:
http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=13324&grp=78&cat=406
at November 30, 2006 4:04 PM
Blondie - Yet another victory for multiculturalism. Ain't diversity grand?
Posted by: MP at November 30, 2006 6:29 PM
MP, I celebrate (joking!)
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 30, 2006 6:51 PM
MP, if they send you for reprogramming ('diversity training') that's what they tell you 'celebrate the diversity' 'celebrate the multiculturalism'.
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 30, 2006 6:52 PM
http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=13308&grp=78&cat=406
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at November 30, 2006 7:07 PM
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6449/demoneyesfinalsa1.jpg
I think this sums up New Labour pretty nicely. Spread it around to as many people as you can.
Posted by: IceDragon at December 3, 2006 4:10 PM
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