Full dhimmitude for all Muslims in the West! Give to them what they give "infidels" in the lands of the great sharia. If they don't like it, then they can leave.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 1, 2006 9:23 AM

I don't think we could get a law passed here to jail Muslims for trying to convert people, could we? By some rather twisted reasoning, I think that would let us round them all up as the Koran says it's their duty to convert the "infidels".

Posted by: schwaben at December 1, 2006 10:45 AM

I don't think we could get a law passed here to jail Muslims for trying to convert people, could we?

I understand that flu vaccines are made to mimic certain protein chains (ore something like that) in the particular virus, and that's all that's needed to wake the body up to the presence of the virus if it actually does show up. This, I think, is where we liberals are on the right track when we talk about the legal challenge of dealing with hate speech. There may be a way to make the conflict with American Muslims judicious, impersonal, and reflexive. It will also force them to be more explicit about their theology, which will turn the light on in people's head that much faster; therefore innoculating the American body politic just as the flu vaccine would innoculate an American body.

It seems to me it would be much more successful than the incipient European reaction to that-scarf-thing Muslim women wear, which gives the Muslims an excuse to complain about being persecuted.

(Poor darlings.)

Posted by: pneumatikon at December 1, 2006 11:11 AM

Christian groups often go throughout the world trying to gain converts. Noble work and I commend them for attempting the near impossible in the worst locations. However, the way the West is going they might as well come home and start trying to convert all these Muslim immigrants from cesspoolia-this would be a blessing for both those misguided Muslims AND for those Western nations in which they reside. If this is already happeneing it needs greater publicity because I haven't heard of any such thing.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 1, 2006 11:21 AM

Tit for goddamned tat.

Shut down all Muslim missionary efforts, those sinister well-financed cleverly-targetted campaigns of Da'wa, in prisons all over the Western world, and on the streets too, where the economically marginal think that Islam promises "social justice" because they nothing about the distribution of wealth and power in Islmaic countries, and where the psychically marginal, the spoiled Spiritual Searchers of the Marin-County variety (John Walker Lindh), or the S.D.S.-Trotskyite-been-there-done-that Schwartz variety (googlel "Weiss-Schwartz Syndrome" and have fun), or any other classification or category your own private taxonomy identifies, are also subject to the siren-song of Tablighi Jamaat, and all the other groups and grouplets and groupuscules, peddling their "spiritual" wares -- that is to say, signing up the gullible as recruits for the Army of Islam. And once in, they can never get out.

Posted by: Hugh at December 1, 2006 12:10 PM

americaningermany-

Your comment makes me wonder if WW2 ever really happened at all. This is the same Germany that had Nazis trying to take over the world?? Hell, the countries that defeated that Germany seem more and more alien to me as well. PC has really changed the world- WW2 might just as well have happened in a parallel universe because nothing of that era bears any resemblence to today's world. It must really astound those from the 1940's at how much the world has changed-arguably for the worse. Good thing the Allies sacrificed so much to stop Hitler-only to let another bunch of totalitarians come in and make losers of both victor and vanquished from that conflict,right?
Somebody send me to that other universe already-this one sucks.

PC+Islamania=the end of the world.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 1, 2006 1:18 PM

You need a Bismarck. Or an Adenauer. Or even a Kohl. Somehow, I don't think Otto would have let things go to hell in Germany or even in much of Europe for that matter.

Yeah, I should have been born a hundred years earlier as well.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 1, 2006 1:31 PM

americaningermany-

Rasoel has it right. Too bad few will heed his words. The sheep-like behavior will continue.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 1, 2006 1:38 PM

Muslims want a monopoly and control of their population. They remind me of socialists and communists, they cannot stand the competition.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at December 1, 2006 1:57 PM

pneumatikon:

"This, I think, is where we liberals are on the right track when we talk about the legal challenge of dealing with hate speech. There may be a way to make the conflict with American Muslims judicious, impersonal, and reflexive. It will also force them to be more explicit about their theology, which will turn the light on in people's head that much faster; therefore innoculating the American body politic just as the flu vaccine would innoculate an American body."

Just to clarify - you are saying, roughly, that keeping hate speech legal gives Americans more information about what Muslims actually believe, and therefore prepares them to interpret violent acts by Muslims more accurately?

I agree with this; this harkens back to Mill, if I remember correctly.

Watch out, or the conservative British philosopher Scruton--recently quoted by Fjordman--will be all on your tail for finding rational* basis for what he wants to believe are flatly absolutist principles; you dirry stinkin' classical liberal, you. (Scruton could barely do more than he has to alienate even moderate liberals of goodwill if he tried. You can open up the WSJ opinion page and find a strain of conservatives less willing to offend Muslims on the basis of their explicit traditional beliefs, than to defame the non-religious of all philosophical stripes on the basis of their beliefs. This is why, much as Hugh argues well that a world war over is avoidable, it will likely not be avoided. There isn't, in the majority of the politically powerful on various sides, the will to summon the honest perspective necessary to avoid it. They could, they have the ability to choose, but they've made their choice clear.)

Still, I think there is a point at which hate speech crosses a line to incitement to violence, and I am wary about this being erased in the conflict with Islamists. So I want to stress care in distinguishing free speech from incitement to violence.

There are people with "God Hates Fags" signs on the one hand, and ugly as that is, it is not in the same class as actively pushing for others to go out and kill people, or organizing to kill people and destroy their property, and so on.

Similarly, it is one thing to say "F**k The Gummint", and quite another if you have people actually coming out with detailed long-term military strategy (including propaganda and psych-ops) to overthrow the Constitution, and encouraging others to participate with these plans.

It would be good for Islamists if this line were to be erased. In this war we are going to have to prevent a great deal of killing of civilians by Islamic terrorists, in order to keep our society running through the war, and in order to prevent civilians from being terrorized into capitulating to Islamists for fear that that is the only way to save their and their children's lives.

We need to be as clear as possible about the line between free speech and incitement to violence as a result.

Things like calling "racism!" to get us to stop kicking people off planes when they forgo their assigned seats for seats putting them in control of the exits are attempts to start breaking down our ability to distinguish between oppression and reasonable security measures. They are attempts to destroy our ability to integrate reasonable, effective security measures with civil liberties. It is also an attempt to divide us into two groups, with each group sacrificing an important principle, civil liberties or security.

If the Islamists have two brian cells to rub together, they're going to continue with psych games like this, and we need to be prepared to stick to our guns on both civil liberties and sensible security measures, despite them.

* What? The role of Reason in Christian theology? Some possible common ground? Look away, look away!

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at December 1, 2006 2:07 PM

the Muslims will not religions offer them chance to convert to a new religion by Christianity and an arrest and fine anyone who tells a Muslim in an Islamic country about another religion offers a chanceto convertthey should be forbidden to proselytize in Western and non-Muslim countries until the time as a permit for teaching of other religions to Muslims and Muslim countries. Personally I do not think this will ever happenbecause Islam regards it self as the final ultimate word of God or as Muslims put it word of Allah. Surprisingly enough I understand some Muslims think of Judaism and Christianity as corrupted forms of Islam and from the same rootwhich is an interesting fallacy seeing as Judaism was here before Christianity and Islam which today would probably be blown off and it's prophet jailed a pedophile , robber, and con man. But it has only been around for 1400 years where Christianity as around for a 2006 years and Judaism is even older so how can these two major world religions have their roots in Islam, I think Muslims have gotten it backwards.

Posted by: islamakapigeaters at December 1, 2006 6:00 PM

americaningermany

Damn brilliant!! Thanks for sharing that.
I am going to copy/paste and sent it all over the place!

Posted by: Gramfan at December 1, 2006 7:30 PM

A Letter to the Germans from one who cares for the well-being of the German nation and of all of Europe:

Thank you so much for your letter, dear americaningermany. You're so amiable. Unfortunately some (many?) of us are not those poor stupid lambs, who just don't want to be the world's biggest assholes once again and therefore force themselves to love the Muslims invadors at any cost - considering them to be the "today Jews".

Moslems are not the Jews!

Many Germans DO know that ... that's exactly why they submit to Muslims and "criticize" Israel and the USA with such fervor.

Certainly the people you described do exist... nice stupid people who just want to be the good ones and never again do any harm to any minority.

I don't know how numerous they are. They are just harmless do gooders.

But they are not the only ones.

There are as well many Germans who DO exactly KNOW, that Muslims are not the Jews and just like them because of that. Sometimes it seems to me, they would somehow thankfully accept a second holocaust - this time not being the culprits but the audience at the side-lines - and the Muslims are obviously eager to be the culprits - at least verbally. "Well, let's welcome them!"

Muslims are eager to complain about "atrocities" done by Jews and those Germans are eager to listen to the complaints. "If the Jews are really as evil as the Muslims say, it was not such shameful, to kill 6 millions of them, was it?"

Why do so many people think, the nazis departed to a far away galaxy in 1945? They did not depart (my grandfather, who hated them, taught me, to identify them ... it is not so difficult, if you know how to listen to them and their offspring) , they just recognized, they had really and irrevocably lost a war and quickly adjusted to the new situation ... handing on their grievances and their Antisemitism and Antiamericanism to their children subtly.

You are right, dear americaningermany, there is a lack of information about Islam in Germany. But there is also a lack of willingness to be informed about Islam!

The problem are not the stupid and permanently drunken neonazis, everyone despises them, they are considered to be scum by a huge majority ... the problem is much more complicated, old, deeply archaic and concealed.

Again: Thank you for your letter. It is not at all useless to try to inform. I really do not know how numerous the lambs and the wolves are ... but be assured: there are still wolves. And they are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Posted by: Eisvogel at December 1, 2006 8:13 PM

What are they so afraid of?

Posted by: AsIf at December 1, 2006 10:18 PM

Moslems hate converts. Moslems hate other Moslems. Moslems just like to hate too much. They hate more than Communists, and Communists hated a lot. A month or so ago, there were some columns on catholicfundamentalism.com explaining some of the ways that polygamy produces hate in Moslem households.
Didn't realize that polygamy had so many bad consequences.

Posted by: gchesterton at December 2, 2006 11:59 AM

I know that Germany is still sore over the WW2 holocaust, but much like the rest of Europe, it cannot afford Dhimmitude, culturally, financially, morally or ethically. The one thing that Germans may be unaware of is that in Palestine, Mein Kampf is a bestseller and required reading for those Muslims who wish to attack Israeli Jews. If we continue to allow and fascilitate Islam, we are contributing to Jewish deaths.

The following sites may be disturbing, but they must be seen:

http://www.n-tv.de/634520.html (I cannot read German, but I can read that poster loud and clear)

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/03/mein-kampf-in-english-on-radio-islam.html

This is an internal link:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005409.php

This final site focuses on the similarities between Hitlers Boook and Mohammed's. I'm linking to the chapter comparing the two, but the whole book makes for excellent and informative reading:
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_16_Mein_Kampf.Islam

Germans should see this, and so should the entire Western World. If we are ever to stamp out anti-semitism, we need to condemn Islam by default, because anti-semitism is at the heart of the Islamic 'religion'.

Posted by: Truthseeker at December 4, 2006 4:01 AM