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Amazing, really, that this would be controversial at all. Really, it isn't much. I'm glad he said it, but much more needs to be said. Tolerance and equal treatment aren't close to being enough on which to build a strong society. As I have been saying for years, we must restore sanity to immigration policies, or all will be lost. "Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate (Update1)," by Mark Deen and Caroline Alexander for Bloomberg, with thanks to Wallygreeninker:
Dec. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Prime Minister Tony Blair said immigrants have a duty to integrate into society, his latest attempt to limit divisions between Muslims and other cultures in the U.K.``The right to be in a multicultural society was always implicitly balanced by a duty to integrate, to be part of Britain,'' Blair said in a speech in London today. ``Integration isn't about culture or lifestyle'' it is about shared values: tolerance, equal treatment and the rule of law, he said.
Blair has been stressing assimilation since British-born Muslim youths killed 52 in suicide bomb attacks in London last year. His push is part of a wider debate across Europe about the place of non-Christian immigrants in societies that increasingly separate religion from public life.
In October, Blair backed other government ministers in saying that Muslim women who wear a face-covering veil separate themselves from society. Britain's communities minister Ruth Kelly told Muslims on Oct. 11 that the nation holds a set of ``non-negotiable values.''
British leaders, Blair said, must ``reassert the duty to integrate, to stress what we hold in common and say: these are the shared boundaries within which we all are obliged to live,'' Blair said today. This is ``precisely in order to preserve our right to our own different faiths, races and creeds.''
Posted by Robert at December 8, 2006 1:43 PM
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Perhaps Blair's pronouncement should be read in the context of the recent conviction of Muslim convert and A-Q operative Dhiren Barot. The UK's Muslim population are only part of the problem. The rest of the population still refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem or buys into four myths:
Myth 1: Britain is only threatened by such terror because the war in Iraq has radicalised British Muslims.
Myth 2:British Muslims turn to terror because they live segregated lives or are poor and alienated.
Myth 3:President Bush and the world Zionist conspiracy are to blame for fuelling Islamist terror.
Myth 4:British Islamist terrorists are merely disaffected local youths going in for a bit of copycat aggro.
Read it all:
A terror so great we forgot it at once
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=470
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at December 8, 2006 1:59 PM
As the Telegraph article pointed out the other day, alternative Sharia courts are thriving in many parts of Britain today.
The genie is already out of the bottle.
Posted by: Cornelius at December 8, 2006 2:09 PM
His speech falls short in its understanding of the inherent intolerance of Islam, but hits the nail on the head in respect of the need for shared values.
Unfortunately, most Britons won't even get to know about his speech. I've just watched coverage on ITV news and was such a vanilla-PC-mishmash that I felt like screaming at the TV.
It's here: http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page10563.asp
Posted by: Null at December 8, 2006 2:10 PM
I agree in this, completely. And the language should be English - same as in the US- across the board.
Posted by: allat at December 8, 2006 2:11 PM
Apologies to ITV; It was Channel 5 news. Just shows how much TV I usually watch that I didn't notice the difference!
Posted by: Null at December 8, 2006 2:13 PM
there is no way Muslims will integrate fully their faith teaches that Islam is to rule the world and the Koran is to be the supreme Law so why would they integrate with the host society rather seems they feel the host society to become Muslim integrate with them and unfortunately the apologists and multiculturalism be idiots up in their ivory towers with very low oxygen in a state causes brain damage but what brains
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at December 8, 2006 2:19 PM
This man want to make peace in the Middle East and yet he makes such a racist statement that will inflame the peaceful ones. Oh the outrage!
The only place for these immigrants is the ummah.
Let them stay there if they want to remain what they were in the ummah.
at December 8, 2006 2:26 PM
From the article...
..."His push is part of a wider debate across Europe about the place of non-Christian immigrants..."
Yea, those non-Christian immigrants..darn Hindus and buddhists who won't conform.
MSM drives me crazy...dhimmis...all of 'em...
Posted by: Sir Oinks Alot at December 8, 2006 2:34 PM
They are unwilling to integrate as they are in fact, foreign forces behind enemy lines. And like all underground resistance forces, deceit, camoflage, misdirection, subversion and disruption of enemy activities are their rules.
The Muslims are working this to perfection. As in France there are many neighborhoods where even the police fear to tread.
Forget integration, implement deportation.
Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 8, 2006 2:40 PM
We don't need talk of shared values. We need him to address the problem of islamic demographics.
What shared values do with have with any muslim majority country? None. Demographics is the big problem.
Posted by: Celsius at December 8, 2006 2:55 PM
From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6219626.stm
Unusual to see the Beeb Critizing Muslims.
Blair PC speak:
"When it comes to our essential values - belief in democracy, the rule of law, tolerance, equal treatment for all, respect for this country and its shared heritage - then that is where we come together, it is what we hold in common."
Re-interpreted as Muslim values:
We do not belief in Democracy,only the rule of Sharia Law,intolerance, discrimination of all non-muslims,respect only for the Caliphate and Islam - we can not come together unless all infidels submit, that is what we hold common.
Sky News are also running an interesting commentary on the TV, just now. They interview a "modarate" Muslim in a mosque in Manchester who complains that the government are clearly targetting them and say "the message is, it the Muslim's are the problem."
I think the message might be finally hitting home.
at December 8, 2006 3:13 PM
This comes from the incompetent lying turd who
states "Islam is a peaceful religion".
He doesn`t know why there is a lack of integration.
What part of Sura 9;29 doesn`t he understand ?
at December 8, 2006 3:18 PM
Celsius: "We don't need talk of shared values. We need him to address the problem of islamic demographics."
In Britain we need both. The public isn't ready for discussion on demographics etc, as they still don't yet properly understand what it is about Islam that makes it incompatible with liberal democracy. The focus on "shared values" is an important part of educating the general public.
Posted by: Null at December 8, 2006 3:25 PM
Sky News are also running an interesting commentary on the TV, just now. They interview a "modarate" Muslim in a mosque in Manchester who complains that the government are clearly targetting them and say "the message is, it the Muslim's are the problem."
well DUUHHHHH.
at December 8, 2006 3:32 PM
read this story i found on danielpipes
it's from a hindu guy, read it all
--------------------
I used to live in Muslim dominated neighbourhood in Delhi. Since childhood I have experienced hatred and incitement by Muslims. After that I migrated to UK to pursue my degree in IT. I took a room in Bricklane , London ( Bangladeshi Muslim Dominated area in heart of London). One of the fellow students invited me to East London Mosque. I was shocked to see the Anti West , anti Israel and anti India propaganda in Mosque.
After finishing my studies I immigrated to US in an IT Company where I met few colleagues from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. I was very friendly with them as we all are human beings , I respected their Islamic Beliefs. They took this as my love for Islam. They introduced me to an organisation called Da,wa which motivated non muslims to convert to Islam . I told them all religions are same , God is one and all way goes to the same God . The Mullah in mosque was angry , he explained me the base or qaida / shehada of Islam that is " There is no God but allah and Mohamad was allah's final prophet. I asked him about the logic of other religions , he told me that all other religions were fake and manmade. The only religion for mankind is Islam. and those who doesn't follow Islam will be prosecuted in this life as well as in Akhirat ( After Life ).
He was so insistent that I had to leave the premises. After some time the same maulana with fellow muslim colleagues came to my appartment with members of Tableegh and Jamat . These members were from North West pakistan and explained me the benefits of Islam.............One of them who was an elder who also promised me to help me in settling in US by marrying to his young and beautiful daughter If I converted to Islam. It was a nightmare ..............I changed my apartment , they followed me to new appartment as my muslim colleagues in IT Company gave them my new address.
I contacted Professor Abdul who is professor in one of the US Universities , he was considered as moderate , I explained my problem to him. he refused to help and told me that he was helpless , he said conversion to Islam was the only and best option for me. I told him that you are moderate , he said I am moderate for US media , I can display my modern views in US Media only in front of Western Audience. He said he has no guts to speak in front of Islamists .
After going through Koran , Hadis , Biography of Mohamad , Sharia , and reasons for Islamist Terrorism , I can say that there is no such thing such as Moderate Islam , Moderate Muslim is a myth.
Muslim is a muslim and will only side with Islamists when the decision times comes. Even some of the ex muslims / enlightened muslims try to threaten Islamists , they will be targetted and boycotted / harrassed by Muslim Societies . and Worsewill be physically assaulted and murdered by Islamists. So its best to take Islamism head on as we have no options left.
Hamas is ruling government in Palestinian Territories .
Hizbullah is trying to take over in Lebanon , its matter of time.
Iran is already ruled by Islamic fanatic Ahmedinejad
Iraq is burning in fires of Islamist extremism
Turkey is ruled by an Islamist Raccep Tayyip Erdogan.
Pakistan is ruled by coalition of Pro Bin Laden Coalition MMA of Islamist Parties.
Islamists are getting powerful in bangladesh
Muslim Militia have taken control of Somalia
Muslim Terrorists are massacring Ethnic Sudanese in Darfur , Sudan
Muslim brotherhood is gaining ground in Egypt.
Jemaa Al Islamiya is gettting stronger in Indonesia
Moro Islamic Front has captured South of Philipines.
Russians are having hard time due to Islamists in Chechnya & Dagestan.
Islamists are using Malaysian Government's " Bhoomiputra " law to destroy non muslim minorities in Malaysia.
Buddhists in South of Thailand are being massacred by Islamists of Pattani Province.
North of Nigeria is being controlled by Islamists and are expanding their influence towards Christian South.
Racial Riots by Muslims in 300 cities of France has shown the real power of Islamism in France.
Serial Bombs in Madrid forced spanish government to withdraw its troops from Iraq
Even Muslims outrage and anger forced Pope to apologize to muslim for the speech he gave about connection between Islam and Terrorism ( Which is true ).
......................................, etc . Its a long list.
Islamists are getting powerful day by day . Please don't expect so called moderate muslims to fight with Islamists. Moderate Islam is another tool of Islam to fool gullible westerners.
This Global War against Islamism can only be won by breaking their will militarily and destroying them completely. Till then there will be only high alerts , red alerts , orange alerts , etc.
--------------------------
at December 8, 2006 3:32 PM
This Global War against Islamism can only be won by breaking their will militarily and destroying them completely. Till then there will be only high alerts , red alerts , orange alerts , etc.
--------------------------
Posted by: StillFedUp at December 8, 2006 03:32 PM
That's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the ugly truth.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 8, 2006 3:36 PM
Why?
Islam is a noble religion of peace .
at December 8, 2006 3:48 PM
I live in an inner city area with high numbers of immigrants. The majority of immigrants from the third world to our city do not integrate. Fact. The only immigrants who do assimilate to any significant degree are other Europeans. It is not a realistic possibility in my opinion that this situation will change very soon. Islam presents a real hurdle to integration, but if you live with Africans you can see that even the Christian Africans are not assimilated. Fact. Blair does not seem to realise the reality of any of this.
Posted by: EnglishBlondie at December 8, 2006 3:52 PM
Words are cheap it is actions that count.
Politicians throw words around like water, but then again they fail to act.
Saying that immigrants need to integrate is stating the obvious..question is what is Blair (who is leaving in a couple of months) and more importantly the Parliament and Blairs successor going to do to FORCE the issue and force immigrants to integerate, that is assimilate.
Answer is nothing. They would have to ban Islamic practices and clothing, and that means that they would have to also prohibit Jewish and Christian and Sikh clothing and practices.
If Muslims can't use Shari'a within their own communities, then Jews can't use religious laws and courts in their communities..which is common practise, especially in Canada.
Via Google I just found this interesting site
owner is a Muslim leftist name of Tarek Fatah
who says Stop Religious Courts in Canada (not just Shari'a but Catholic Tribunals and Rabbincal courts.
For all of the demonizing of leftists, it is the leftists in the Islamic world that are the most profound opponents of Shari'a and Jihad and Islamic Theocracies, and example is the Mujahedeen e Khalq, a couple of thousand strong Army that is mostly female, that was persecuted and driven out of Iran for "terrorism" against the mullahcracy.. and is now finding refuge in variouos bases in Iraq, that are being secured by U.S. military.. the MEK is both Marxist and Islamist and their women soldiers wear a Khaki colored hijab as well as khaki colored short cloak and pants., and they do a hell of a job on maintaining their armored equipment.. they are very impressive on parade.
Mujahedin-e-Khalq [MEK] facilities in Iraq included
* Camp Ashraf, the MEK military headquarters, is about 100 kilometers west of the Iranian border and 100 kilometers north of Baghdad near Khalis
* Camp Anzali near the town of Jalawla [Jalula] (120-130 km (70-80 miles) northeast of Baghdad and about 40-60 km (20-35 miles) from the border with Iran)
* Camp Faezeh in Kut
* Camp Habib in Basra
* Camp Homayoun in Al-Amarah
* Camp Bonyad Alavi near the city of Miqdadiyah in Mansourieh [about 65 miles northeast of Baghdad]
at December 8, 2006 3:55 PM
there's one thing i hate more than muslims, and it's leftist.
Posted by: StillFedUp at December 8, 2006 4:03 PM
'The demonizing of leftists' is something that occurs often on this site, presumably because it is an exclusively right-wing site. This is a shame as it is the western world in general that is the target of the (extremely right-wing) Jihadists, and not just a small restricted conservative segment of it.
Posted by: schmegel at December 8, 2006 4:23 PM
schmegel - Yes this site could be deemed "conservative". However how many leftist sites exist, that do the same as this site (as opposed to the opposite)?
Futher, I think you will find that many conservatives that span the pages of this site have a deep respect for certain Dutch leftists who have died fighting the Muslims (even though many here would strongly disagree with their social policies; eg Pym Fortyn). Tragically the leftists who do fight, as opposed to those who let the enemy in, are few and far.
Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 8, 2006 4:44 PM
Blair has probably been watching events over here in Australia.
Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at December 8, 2006 4:45 PM
This is most certainly not an exclusively right-wing site, and I don't think that jihadist ideology fits comfortably anywhere on the left-right spectrum, but aside from those details I agree with Schmegel.
If we draw the battle lines in terms of left vs. right we will never communicate effectively. That fewer leftwingers seem at present to understand the Islamic threat is simply evidence that a lot more work needs to be done to bring them onboard. Our job here is to defend and safeguard liberal democracy - of equal concern, I would hope, to both left and right!
Posted by: Null at December 8, 2006 4:52 PM
UK blogger gandalf accuses Nu Labour of treason.
THE TREASON OF NEW LABOUR
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
Posted by: DP111 at December 8, 2006 5:04 PM
"If we draw the battle lines in terms of left vs. right we will never communicate effectively. "
in my country (as in many others) the left is pro-multiculti crap, anti immigration-control, pro-weakening judeo-christian religions or all religions except islam.
The parties with muslims inside are communists and the muslim leaders tell to vote communists.
The typically leftist areas are the ones with more mosques.
What more evidence do you need?
Posted by: StillFedUp at December 8, 2006 5:05 PM
Maybe when people finally realize that if they want to change this political corruption that passes for political parties, they will actually look at who the hell they are voting for!!!
Posted by: OLD SARGE at December 8, 2006 5:22 PM
"If we draw the battle lines in terms of left vs. right we will never communicate effectively. That fewer leftwingers seem at present to understand the Islamic threat is simply evidence that a lot more work needs to be done to bring them onboard. Our job here is to defend and safeguard liberal democracy - of equal concern, I would hope, to both left and right!"
Amen to that, Null. And I would add that it's not only the left/right dichotomy that is irrelevant, but also the Christian/non-Christian dichotomy. And it makes our opponents' job that much easier if they can write us off as just another bunch of fascists/racists/neocons/Christian fundamentalists (insert your own term of opprobrium here).
Posted by: JFGR at December 8, 2006 5:23 PM
Minister Blair needs to read:
Quran[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors."
Will muslims follow his suggestion to integrate, or Allah's commnand NOT to integrate?
Posted by: elcordobes at December 8, 2006 5:42 PM
Islam will takeover sooner or later not only UK but the whole earth. Do not believe me, do the maths. The multiplication rate of other religious groups have decline very sharply. Though we are all aware of oppostion of christian evangelists to abortion, I do not think they are opposed to contraception. Almost every other religion except Islam still honours fertility. That tells that there are tough days ahead for kids and kins of dhimmis. It would have been really alarming what the progeny of leftist liberals would have to undergo, 50 or 100 years hence.
Posted by: pagan at December 8, 2006 5:52 PM
1. Threats
2. Backtracking by Blair
3. Concessions
4. Apology
5. Appointment of another commission to study the needs of their new overlords
[repeat]
Posted by: Beagle at December 8, 2006 6:07 PM
Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate
And if they don't, what is he going to do?
There is no point in making such statements, unless his government, which has been instrumentral in allowing in hundreds of thousands of Muslims into the UK, even to the extent of bribing them with Welfare, has a policy to 'force' integration. And if they still dont, then repatriation is the only solution.
at December 8, 2006 6:49 PM
Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate
Like this
UK: Muslim Men Must Swim Alone
News from the Sun today reports that Croydon Council, which receives funds from all of those who live within its region, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, has decided to segregate the swimming pool for Muslims.
For people who are working from Monday to Friday, or who have children at school on these days, Saturday and Sunday are the days when most families can visit the indoor swimming facility, owned by Croydon Council, and paid for by its rate-payers.
But now, Sunday afternoons from 4.45 pm to 6.45 pm at the pool are out of bounds for women, as the Council has ordered that Muslim males are to be given special privileges. Non-Muslim men may only swim at this time if they wear "Islamically modest" swimwear, which covers the navel and extends to the knees.
During the week, there are times when Muslim women may swim, and here any female attending the venue must be clothed from their necks to their ankles.
Posted by: DP111 at December 8, 2006 7:05 PM
Hey Britain stand up for your values!!!
Posted by: OLD SARGE at December 8, 2006 7:10 PM
I just got on this site to communicate - hardly know how to answer as this - I have no expertise to answer this man - one of our poor kid soldiers that has been sent to Iraq. Can some one help this conflicted man - send word to him?
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/12/a_soldiers_stor.html
All I can say is - all info on this site hs openene my eyes to danger - all religions are NOT the same - and it's scary. Never mind the origin of Islam - it's today's developmt that matters.
at December 8, 2006 7:15 PM
"If we draw the battle lines in terms of left vs. right we will never communicate effectively. That fewer leftwingers seem at present to understand the Islamic threat is simply evidence that a lot more work needs to be done to bring them onboard. Our job here is to defend and safeguard liberal democracy - of equal concern, I would hope, to both left and right!"
'Kin'ell guys this is not left vs right this is right vs wrong! I originally came from the left (I am probably an apostate from the left now) Fed up with the SWP alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood (very strange bed-felows - Respect?) used to believe all that anti-Israel stuff on the MSM
It is very strange here in the UK the propganda is so blatant. However the tide is turning people are starting to ask questions. Watch this space!
Blogs are great- the truth will set you free
Posted by: hierophant at December 8, 2006 8:36 PM
I agree that it should not be contraversial to say the obvious.
BUT, there is something new here in the opening line. It refers specifically to the specific problem of Muslims and integration, not some vague shapeless mass of brown people.
This is extremely important, especially since kuffir immigrants from everywhere else do pretty well in the UK.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 8, 2006 8:38 PM
Sometimes I look up at the usually clear and lovely sky over Tokyo and think:
What must have it been like when fire rained down days on end?
Families jumping into swimming pools to avoid being melted only to be boiled instead-- deaths certainly far worse than those at Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
I wonder reading the list provided by StillFedUp and the headlines where 3 of 5 articles are jihad related, whay it has to be that we are headed for the same type of slaughter.
I heard a moderate type Muslima in Starbucks telling her friends that the Koran meant peace. It reminded me of the Imperial parades before the war with schoolchildren waving flags and shouting "banzai."
Posted by: tokyobk at December 8, 2006 8:51 PM
"to stress what we hold in common.."
-- from Blair's remarks discussed above
What are those things that Muslims "hold in common" with non-Muslims in Great Britain? A belief that the source of political legitimacy resides in the will of the people? A belief in the equal -- permanently equal -- treatment of all faiths? A belief in complete legal equality for women? A belief in complete legal equality for non-Muslims with Muslims (not taken care of by what is accepted now, while there is no other choice, but what would happen if Muslims became more numerous and powerful)? A belief in free and open inquiry? A belief in every conceivable vehicle or mode of artistic expression? A belief in the value of mockery, and freedom to mock anything without punishment? A belief that one has a right to change one's beliefs, without any punishment, to apostasize from any faith, to drop faith altogether for complete unbelief?
What is it, exactly, that we "share in common"?
For more on Blair, see the chapter "Blair and the Koran" in Rory Stewart's "The Places In Between."
Posted by: Hugh at December 8, 2006 8:58 PM
Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate.......
And it took Tony 1.5 years, after 7/11, to figure this out.....
Posted by: Alert at December 8, 2006 9:16 PM
Hia hierophant !
May I wish you a very Merry Christmas!
You are dead right, it is right verses wrong. And hierophant, everybody is catching on to the propaganda from the TV/mainstream media now, a few years ago very few of us realised, but it is common knowledge now. The tide is turning.
Merry Christmas.
Hierphant, these are a few new British blogs you may enjoy:
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
http://strawdogsspidershouse.blogspot.com/
http://littlebulldogs.blogspot.com/
at December 8, 2006 9:32 PM
And another one hierophant, with the best name ever:
http://drunkenblogging.blogspot.com/
at December 8, 2006 9:36 PM
In his speech, Blair did get quite threatening, for him. He all but said:'if you don't like this country, get out'.He seemed to announc the government's intention of raising the minimum age for a UK citizen to marry a foreign spouse from 18 to 21. They only rased it from 16 to 18 this year. He even mentioned the fact that Ann Cryer had wanted them to raise it to 21 (although did't mention that she was over-ruled to appease the Muslim male community leaders who deliver the bloc vote.)
He also announced closer supervision and guidelines for comparative religion teaching, clearly referring to his new faith schools. Goodness knows what a comparative religion lesson would look like in your average Muslim school!
He also complained, in a round about sort of way, that too many Muslims weren't bothering to learn English, mentioned their educational under-achievement and seemed to indicate tighter control of foreign imams being brought in to work in mosques in the UK so as to prevent preaching of hatred and the teaching of Islam by people who can't even speak English.
The MCB say they found his speech 'concerning' and 'alarming', which can't be bad.
at December 8, 2006 9:39 PM
wallyUK, yes it can't have been all bad if the MCB are alarmed, but I just wonder what real difference any of these speeches will make. Even if they force a few 'comparative religion' lessons in schools I don't see that solving anything. I don't think that Blair saying 'integrate' is going to make any big difference to anything. And what if they don't?
I don't trust Blair either. Remember, he has had, and still has, the totally extreme position of unlimited immigration into the UK.
at December 8, 2006 9:52 PM
"What is it, exactly, that we "share in common"?
Posted by: Hugh "
Indeed!!
The above posts have been very enlightening and I can't add much more to that other than I think they could get rid of the sharia courts that seem to exist in some places.
To use rabbinical courts etc as an excuse for NOT doing this is WRONG. (Again, we get this
"moral equivalence" crap.)
WHY? Because the west has based its laws on the 10 Commandments whereas sharia is not.
Therefore it is completely incompatible with western law, so why the obstacle for banning it?
I think it IS unconstitutional for all western countries to allow sharia on their soil in any shape or form.
I am sure some smart lawyer could make a case for this.
I welcome your thoughts on this.
We have to fight hard, and I am not sure if it is too late. Blair for sure is too late with his sudden "wisdom".
StillFedUp - that was one powerful piece! I am keeping that for future reference.
Posted by: Gramfan at December 8, 2006 9:56 PM
Blair is so weak-tit.
We've seen this act for decades in the States. But I've never, ever, seen a Police Chief sink so low and so craven as to deliver an indignant lecture to the local criminal element that they have a duty to obey the law.
That would be called fantastic begging.
* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *
Does realistic begging exist?
Dunno. Tellya what, I'll read the Iraq Study Group's report and get back to you on that.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 8, 2006 10:27 PM
Blair is putting the finishing touches to his 'disassociation with responsibility for' the state of affairs in Britain.
No doubt he has nightmares about being dragged from his comfy retirement bed in the middle of some future hellish night by a very angry mob of indigenous Brits.
Posted by: Mike_W at December 8, 2006 11:02 PM
In the beginning, I believed in Blair and Bush. I see they are so much alike on the open border issue and that they're just a couple of globalists with no love of country. I never thought of the U.K. as a center for immigrants. The U.S. was a "melting pot" but the newcomers do not want to integrate. They don't want to speak English. Why don't the heads of state get that?
Welcome to the new world order.
at December 9, 2006 12:10 AM
"Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate
Amazing, really, that this would be controversial at all"
The controversy really surrounds what could only be described as a major about-turn in Labour Dhimmitude. Even though it may seem very mild, if we had to measure it by UK political standards, it would probably measure around 9.5 as an eartquake on the richter scale, given the kind of %$^£&^% that the UK has had to put up with by its politicians for so long.
According to the BBC the Muslim Association of Britain said Mr Blair's speech was "alarming". Of course it is alarming - this 'Muslim Association of Britain' want to quietly multiply Islamic numbers in the UK until Muslims become the majority. That is why they are once again playing the victim card - it has worked so well in the past, why should it not work now? Their goal is to keep a low profile until they gain enough strength in numbers to declare Sharia. They differ from the Abu Hamzas of the UK only by virtue of the fact that Hamza & Co inc. want an immediate violent takeover - hence their support for suicide bombings and jihad - the goal is the same for both - sharia - the means of achieving that goal is where the difference lies.
Unfortunately, this is too little too late. As many people in the above posts have said - it's the demography that matters. What point is there in telling immigrants that if they want to immigrate they have to share the same values - oh yeah, or what? How can you force people to share the same values? Just like the daft Dutch idea of getting potential Muslim immigrants to watch semi pornographic videos of life in the Netherlands before they move over...and that's gonna make them accept those 'values'.
I wonder if there ever will come a time when strong leadership (ie a politician with any brains whatsoever) anywhere in the west will actually take control, with proper solutions to this increasingly desperate situation that exists - instead of this daft, brainless hogwash that resolves nothing. I highly doubt it although I hope I am wrong.
Posted by: GreekFrenchInfidel at December 9, 2006 4:17 AM
I hear alot of Brits are reverting to Islam, that Prince Charles loves Muslims, Princess Diana reverted to Islam to marry Dodi Al Fayed, etc etc and that pretty soon with Muslim birthrates, it's going to become a very Muslim environment.
Probably shows that the Church of England and one of the oldest European cultures in the West cannot match the sheer intellectual and spiritual depth that Islam offers when competing in their own lands, as a minority religion with little Government support, and with plenty of covert and overt racism to boot.
This, my friends, is yet another desperate attempt by Tony Blair to reverse what is clearly irreversible without outright war - the cultural transformation of Western Europe by Islam and Muslims, who are upholding ideals long lost in the frivolity and drunk stupor of the whorehouses and dark wateringholes of the modern United Kingdom. And you meatheads are the Last of the drunken STD infected warriors of the British emprire, full of fight but resigned to your keyboards - what a sorry bunch you are! Is it because you have nothing else to offer to counter the very real phenomenon of Islamic values spreading worldwide? How can you if all you can spout is vitriolic hate, quoting passages out of context and acting like a mutual appreciation society of hatemongers...
Posted by: Salahuddin at December 9, 2006 4:26 AM
And you meatheads are the Last of the drunken STD infected warriors of the British emprire
Posted by: Salahuddin
Take care Salahuddin, lest you end up finding out just how rough those drunken warriors of the British empire can get.
Why not convert to Christianity while there is still time and you still have your teeth?
What is it about Islam that so appeals to you anyway?
Is it the pedophilia?
The stonings?
The amputations?
Murder in the name of Allah perhaps?
The raping?
The looting?
Islam appeals to al the base instincts.
Truly Allah is Satan.
Time is running out, the kuffars are waking up, slowly to be sure but what you mistake for weakness is just their good nature.
When infidels get angry they are capable of great anger and destruction.
Read some history - about World Wars I and II for example.
So abandon Islam and convert to Christianity while there is still time.
at December 9, 2006 5:14 AM
Hi EnglishBlondie
and a merry Christmas to you to (not sure if we are still allowed to say that!)
I am familiar with the first three blogs but not the fourth - have now had a look and bookmarked it - thank you.
at December 9, 2006 6:26 AM
The insistance of some to preach Christianity at every possibile opportunity is at least as damaging to our cause as those who think that bashing the left solves anything.
We are left, right, centre... theist, atheist, agnostic. And unless we unify our message we will continue to be smeared as neocons, rapturists etc, thus slowing our message and in essence aiding Islam.
Time to choose.
Posted by: Null at December 9, 2006 6:47 AM
Blair is such a fake. He reads a speech some kid from an Ad agency has written. It is meaningless twaddle and just irritates.
It is HIS Party which has spent 40 years creating this mess, cultivating its ethnic voters, making sure they had public funds to keep the voting block going Labour so they could control municipal government.
Labour has sponsored these separatists - go and look at Lord Ahmed put in the Upper House by Blair...............here's his CV
http://www.pakistandost.com/lordnazir.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1716526.stm
These are the kind of people Blair has promoted........he is such a fraud. He says what he thinks people want to hear but it turns no wheels. Nothing happens.
Here we have a terrorist suspect on the run - a Kurd from Iraq - he was given bail and not being a gentleman he did not show up at Huddersfield Police Station as expected...........really not the sort of chap to have join the country club. I wonder if he knows how disappointed we are with his conduct.............?
Posted by: Voyager at December 9, 2006 7:10 AM
Good point Null
couldn't agree more
Salahuddin
I think I know what your problem is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6161691.stm
at December 9, 2006 7:13 AM
Time to choose.
Posted by: Null
How can anyone ask Muslims to abandon belief in Allah if they have nothing to offer in Allah's place?
How could I as a Christian ask Salahuddin to abandon Allah without at least mentioning Christianity?
In my opinion, most of the present problems regarding Islam in the West are the direct result of a Godless, secular, empty, null, West.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
In this case the vacuum created by a West giving up its traditional Judeo-Christian values is being filled by Islam.
at December 9, 2006 7:27 AM
Blair Says Immigrants to U.K. Have Duty to Integrate..
However, at the end of the day, it will be the brits who will integrate..to islam.
Considering what has been happening in many quarters in London,such as Edgeware road, Paddington, Kensington etc.. , the brits have been learning fast how to integrate. Same stories in other cities in the UK.
Two years ago I visited London with my wife and wandered whether it was London or Baghdad that we strolled around.
How about making a collective effort to put an end to the image of "Rip-Off Britannia"? Or, do you need arab finances that badly?
Personally, I would have preferred to meet Jack the Ripper in person than encountering these beauties in hijab with their leather masks.
It would have scared me less.
Posted by: Icarus_Project at December 9, 2006 10:32 AM
"Grants must be awarded to help communities promote integration rather than given to groups tightly bonded around religious, racial or ethnic identities, he said."
I wish the article was clearer about this. I'd love to see the budgets for the grants. I wish someone could access them or leak them to an interested party.
Posted by: Josephine at December 9, 2006 10:44 AM
Am I missing something here in California? I don't see the British people insisting to their elected representatives that their culture be preserved. I've never seen a single report about Britons taking to the streets or some other action to stop the Islamist demographic warfare.
I get dozens of emails every week about events and activities to fight illegal immigration and save America. True, mexicans and islamists continue to invade at a horrific rate, but Americans are not going down without a fight. We citizens alone have fought off powerful attempts of elites to open the borders and flood the country with foreigners.
Where is the British version of the Minutemen? You can't depend on leaders any more.
Posted by: Dana at December 9, 2006 11:09 AM
Mike_W:
You and I would probably have a lot of common in a debate on rising western secularism and the loss of Judeo-Christian values. But while those issues may have been key in our arrival at this moment in history, they could not possibly be addressed quickly enough to solve the problems that Islam poses. And seriously, ask yourself what the synagogues and churches are doing to halt Islam's advance. On the whole, depressingly little!
We can ask - moreover expect - Muslims to abandon Islam because it is demonstrably false, dangerous and criminal. Read testimonies of ex-Muslims on islam-watch.org and elsewhere and you will find that the vast majority apostatised from Islam some time before adopting a different religion, if indeed they did. So you have every right to preach Christianity, but if you do so at the same time as revealing the disgusting truth about Islam, you reduce the likelihood of Muslims heeding your words. It really is that simple.
Posted by: Null at December 9, 2006 12:26 PM
Salhuddin, what an ironic post!
You write about spouting is 'vitriolic hate' with no sense of irony! Yes, I do appreciate the intelligent, strong and decent posters on here. And, talking of sexually transmitted diseases, there was an item on the BBC about the epidemic amongst Asains, I can't find the actual link but I found this one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/11/talking_about_sex.html#commentsanchor
"We were told by the Brook Advisory Clinic in Birmingham that proportionately more young Asians than non Asians are coming to them after having unprotected sex, and that proportionately more young Asian women are referred for abortions.
Why? Well at least in some cases it seems that young British Asians want the sex but don't want to have contraceptives at home in case their parents find them. We looked at this problem through the eyes of people in Birmingham and Glasgow.[…] We heard the painful tale of a woman who had contracted genital herpes after unprotected sex. She now feels she can never have the arranged marriage she wanted. How would she explain her illness to any potential husband?
· But what are we to learn from this. Does it show that conservative parents are right? No sex is the only safe sex? Or does it show that Asian mums and dads need to teach their children about condoms and STIs [sexually transmitted infections]? "
Use a condom for safe sex:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6161691.stm
at December 9, 2006 12:53 PM
Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
--- God demanding world takeover in Koran 8:39
What was the context of this awful statement? It was clearly made after the Moslems had begun their gang operations involving murder, extortion, theft, slavery, sex slavery, and the like.
The context is right there in black and white, in the Koran, the Hadiths, and the Sirat.
Ain't no denying it. Unless you're a Moslem, cuz all Moslems are liars at one level or another.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 9, 2006 12:57 PM
"Prime Minister Tony Blair said immigrants have a duty to integrate into society, his latest attempt to limit divisions between Muslims and other cultures in the U.K."
Well no shit, Shirley.....
Posted by: DCWatson at December 9, 2006 1:00 PM
I used to live in Muslim dominated neighbourhood in Delhi.
--- posted by StillFedUp
What is your estimate for the true % of India's population that is Moslem? A fellow I know from Delhi estimates 35% - 50%.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 9, 2006 1:35 PM
The great and noble Sharia law in action
Salahuddin
Please copy and paste this link into your browser.
Its 10 minutes long but please watch it all.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/video/stoning_video_100kbps.wmv
I challenge you to ever associate islam with peace after watching this.
WARNING: THIS IS EXTREMELY UPSETTING
Also note the enthusiasm and participation of the crowd on the far side, as well as the casual dispersing once its over, as if its just another saturday at the market.
Posted by: BlowHammed at December 9, 2006 2:05 PM
Salahuddin, to put some of the Koran and ahadith in context:
the misogony in the context of Muslims perptrating rape of women and children in Europe:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html
the homophobia in the context of an iman in Britain wanting to kill homsexuals:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013755.php
“The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.”
and the anti semtitism has so many contexts.
at December 9, 2006 2:31 PM
alarmed
What is your estimate for the true % of India's population that is Moslem? A fellow I know from Delhi estimates 35% - 50%.
I haven't written the piece, it's copied and pasted from a post on danielpipes.org.
I have no guess other than copy data from wikipedia
muslims in india are 13.4%
but in some provinces (not the delhi one) are 70%
Posted by: StillFedUp at December 9, 2006 2:34 PM
They'll have to lose the multicultism first. Like Steyn says, you can't assimilate into a nullity.
Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at December 9, 2006 5:32 PM
"Prime Minister Tony Blair said immigrants have a duty to integrate into society, his latest attempt to limit divisions between Muslims and other cultures in the U.K."
Well no shit, Shirley.....
DC Watson
Then just a day after Blair said
A MUSLIM could one day be Prime Minister, Tony Blair said last night.
Speaking exclusively to The Sun, the PM said: “They said there would never be a woman Prime Minister, but there was. It would depend on how good they were.
PM Blair is beginning to get a faint idea, that he and his government's policies to date, have been instrumental in placing the future well being and harmony of the UK in jeopardy. He dimly realises, that his place in history will be judged none too charitably. Belatedly, he is trying to rescue this legacy- such as it is.
this
at December 9, 2006 6:31 PM
Link is here
Blair: 'Muslim may be PM'
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
Posted by: DP111 at December 9, 2006 6:32 PM
The troll Salahuddin uses Wiki as a reference, hehe...then trots out all the hoary old moral equivalence arguments, every one of which has been proven fallacious elsewhere on this site many times, then finishes by claiming Blondie's "lecherous boyfriend/husband" has the inalienable right to plug his manhood into the nearest easiest female hole he can find.
Hahahaha
Yes, the West is so lecherous and decadent when it comes to sexual morality, not like noble, upstanding, innocent Islam.
Let's hear some wisdom from Ayatollah Khomeini on the matter shall we,
"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."
and,
"A man can have sex with sheep, cows and camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."
Lol, you are very funny Salahuddin.
at December 10, 2006 12:33 AM
I fear the Catholic Church has been infiltrated by communists in the past in a deliberate attempt to smear the Catholic church as part of the communists cultural war against the west.
Just as many of the West's key institutions, such as education, media have been infiltrated by Marxists.
This goes waaaay back to at least the 50's and 60's.
The communists have been implementing their strategy of subversion from within by pushing multiple anti-western agendas ever since.
Anything and everything that will weaken the fabric of our societies such as relativism, multiculturalism, open borders, moral laxity, birth control and abortion, atheism etc.
At the same time they have been working to weaken any institutuion thy see as a threat to their ultimate aim of global domination.
The Catholic Church is a major obstacle for the communists so they decided to do something about it.
Manning Johnson, a former official of the Communist Party USA, gave the following testimony in 1953 to the House un-American Activities Committee:
"Once the tactic of infiltration of religious organizations was set by the Kremlin ... The Communists discovered that the destruction of religion could proceed much faster through infiltration of the Church by the Communists
operating within the Church itself ... In the earliest stages it was determined that with only small forces available to them, it would be necessary to concentrate Communist agents within the seminaries ... to influence the ideology of future clergymen in the paths conducive to Communist purposes."
Mr. Johnson went on to say, "It is the axiom of Communist organization strategy that if a body has 1% Communist Party members and 9% party sympathizers, this 10% can effectively control the remaining 90% who think and act on an individual basis." He further testified that the goals of this infiltration were twofold:
1. To make the Catholic Church no longer effective against Communism.
2. To direct clerical thinking away from the
spiritual and toward the temporal and political ...hence, the preaching of the social gospel."
Another former Communist, Dr. Bella Dodd, a Communist most of her life, after her defection revealed that one of her jobs as a Communist agent was to encourage young radicals to infiltrate seminaries and religious orders, because the Catholic Church was the only one feared by the Communists, for it was its only effective opponent. She said, "In the 1930's we put 1,100 men
into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within. The idea was for these men to be ordained, and then climb the ladder of influence and authority -- to come to be monsignors and bishops. Right now, they are in the highest places ....".
Google Bella Dodd and Manning Johnson for some more eye-openers regarding the deliberate, in my opinion, slandering by communism of the Catholic church.
Posted by: Mike_W at December 10, 2006 3:43 AM
A blast from the past,behold the lies and
utter stupidity of muslims !
It gets funnier by the frame hee hee hee !
http://www.icjs-online.org/index.php?eid=2188&ICJS=5450&article=1136
at December 10, 2006 4:44 AM
What? Have I missed something? I haven't logged on for a bit. Has Salahuddin said something about my boyfriend? It must have been deleted? Oh well, whatever he said doesn't matter, my boyfriend is not lecherous anyway. Plus, he's a big strong man so I doubt 'supersizeme salahuddin' would say it face to face. My boyfriend doesn't like men who are bad to women or children (or animals or infidels or Western society or Christianity).
Blondes prefer gentlemen.
at December 10, 2006 10:03 PM
And he doesn't like anti semites or gay bashers either.
Let's just ignore Saluddin, I think he has issues.
Merry Christmas Mike_W, have a good one.
at December 10, 2006 10:15 PM
Merry Christmas to you too EnglishBlondie and to all people of goodwill.
P.S.
I'm tolerant to a point but badmouthing Dagwood goes beyond the pale ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondie_(comic_strip)
Posted by: Mike_W at December 11, 2006 12:26 AM
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