Well this doesn't come as a surprise.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 17, 2006 5:30 PM

Bethlehem. BETHLEHEM... don't you Christians even have any gut sentiment from childhood Christmas and carols? Muslims demand demand demand everything, they get the 'vapors' at any sign of 'disrespect' and they SH-T all over you.

As a Jew, I am offended for you.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at December 17, 2006 5:43 PM

poetcomic1

As a non-religious person, I'm with you; I'm offended for them too. Unfortunately in an increasingly secularised and materialistic west, do christians matter that much anymore? (to people similar to me).

Lets here it from the christians (agnostics, atheists etc), do christians matter anymore?

Posted by: rudekid at December 17, 2006 6:00 PM

"Unfortunately in an increasingly secularised and materialistic west, do christians matter that much anymore? (to people similar to me).

Lets here it from the christians (agnostics, atheists etc), do christians matter anymore?"
Posted by: rudekid
---------

No, most atheists want to do away with religion, especially Christianity.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 17, 2006 6:19 PM

It just makes me very sad.
We are restricted by our governments, what can Christians do, outside of our state military?
The persecution of Christians means nothing to our government. The "palestinians" are the concern of our government....sigh.
If there was a move to help the Christians in "palestine", how long do you think it would take the FBI to break that up?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 17, 2006 6:21 PM

How unbearably sad this was to read.

Posted by: Mo at December 17, 2006 6:24 PM

"The town's Christian population has dwindled from more than 85 per cent in 1948 to 12 per cent of its 60,000 inhabitants in 2006."

This is, perhaps, the most telling statement in the article.

"The meek shall inherit the earth"...in plots six by four by seven...if they're lucky.

Posted by: USBeast at December 17, 2006 6:45 PM

"How unbearably sad this was to read." - Mo

Yes. This is especially awful. Even more so than the usual bad news. Gangsters!

Handel's Messiah keeps repeating itself in my head...

Maybe this is the Advent of Christian Rage.

Posted by: Jan Sobieski at December 17, 2006 6:59 PM

And of course the sounds of Silence regarding these outrages from the Leaders of the Christian Communities in the west.
when the odd comment does break that silence it is to attack and lambast the jews, who must be seen to be the cause of this exodus to pacify the murderous islamists who might cause even more damage to the Christian community.
This would be bad enough but the dishonest Brainwashing of the Anglican Church community has resulted in the shocking statistics available at

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/articles/9116/

Note that only 21.2 % actually admit that israel is engageed in a struggle for its own survival!

Posted by: chevalier de st george at December 17, 2006 8:00 PM

What an un-Merry Christmas. A pity Mecca or Medina isn't reduced to a state like this.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 17, 2006 8:10 PM

As a Hindu and an agnostic (those are not mutually exclusive) I can attest to the sheer stupidity and malevolence of Christian organisations in India as they align with the jihadis over "minority rights" issues and stoke Muslim appeasement all funded by Western mega churches whereas they let their poor brethren in the holy city of Bethlem perish for the sake of appeasing the Muslims.
I get it. Us dirty idol worshipping heathens are less worthy of respect than Muslims because Muslims are oh so monotheistic and yes jews are christ-killers.
We get it.

Suffer the consequences.

Posted by: Tushar Saxena at December 17, 2006 8:42 PM

If the Israelis had still been in 'occupation' the Christians would have had a decent break. But I recall that when they were, there was never a Christmas or Easter (in the 90's) when we didn't have a some sob story ( I am a Catholic BTW) or other in the Catholic press about how the Jewboys and their tanks were spoiling the fun for everyone from revellers to pilgrims. Every one of these stories would drip with bathos about the 'poor Palestinians and the evil occupation' . And to top it off they'd have an accompanying photograph of some teenaged soldiers lounging around their tanks like some latter-day Roman oppressors around a manger or something. The intent was clearly to insuniate that the "Christ killers" are at it again.

But now that the Jews have left do any of these Catholic propagandists care that the Christian population is being systematically reduced through dhimmi oppression? That nobody feels safe enough to go and see Baby Jesus? Hell that story is worth nothing if you can't tag the Jews with it. For this reason I despise those 'peace and love' Christians who have done their utmost to bring these things to pass.

Posted by: ivan at December 17, 2006 9:12 PM

In India Christian missionaries should be allowed to proselytize only among the Muslims. That should allay Hindu fears, and besides, it is only the Muslims who threaten everyone else. Hindus do not, nor Sikhs, nor Parsis, nor Jains. Muslims, everywhere, do.

Oh, but that would not be right? The Word of God must go out to everyone without discrimination. No, I don't agree. I'm all for Christian missionaries doing their stuff in sub-Saharan Africa, and in East Asia, where the alternative may just be Islam. But in India, which has already suffered quite enough from Islam, all efforts should be made to diminish the Muslim presence in that country -- if possible, by transforming Muslims into Christians. A tall order, but when missionaries take a person presently a recruit in the Army of Islam into a permanent deserter from that Army, everyone wins -- everyone except the Camp of Islam.

Posted by: Hugh at December 17, 2006 9:13 PM

This is the future of all minority Christian communities in majority muslim areas...look at the fate of the Christians of Kosovo. No different.

Posted by: ujaklija at December 17, 2006 9:34 PM

In strange sort of way, this sad story puts the Iraq/Iran situation in a positive light. It forces the West to become aware of what’s going on. Ahmedinejad may force us do something about it.

Posted by: limes at December 17, 2006 10:20 PM

Bethlehem. BETHLEHEM... don't you Christians even have any gut sentiment from childhood Christmas and carols? Muslims demand demand demand everything, they get the 'vapors' at any sign of 'disrespect' and they SH-T all over you.

As a Jew, I am offended for you.
Posted by: poetcomic1 [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 17, 2006 05:43 PM

Thanks for your concern.............but why did Israel give Bethlehem to the Palestinian Authority ?

Posted by: Voyager at December 18, 2006 3:25 AM

Melanie Phillips has more on this, and on the fact that the Israelis are wrongly being blamed for it. A very good post: http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1421.

Posted by: philiph35 at December 18, 2006 3:37 AM

This sad state of affairs does not suprise me because besides the call to witness for Christ, the Gospel, and the Christian faith is the harsh reality that as Christ was persitcuted, so will his followers.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at December 18, 2006 6:25 AM

Whenever I hear A Muslim speak about Islam being a tolerant religion. I have to laugh as I know better!!

In every Muslim country the other religions have been systematically rooted out and eliminated. The process began since Islams inception and continues to today.

The times they are a-changing. The more Islam pushes its agenda, the more they encourage resistance.

The resistance is growing and Islam is growing (desparate).

Wake up world, the times are a-changing.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 18, 2006 7:10 AM

Well, we are told that in the late seventh decade of the first century A.D., as the blowup between Rome and Judaea was gearing up, the Hebrew Christians ofJerusalem and vicinity packed up and moved over to the Decapolis (today's Jordan and Golan Heights)--since they believed the events represented the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24. Who knows? Maybe, after the PA riles Israel enough to accept that it is in a "People's War" in which its only choices are hands-down victory or extinction, the only Falastin Arabs left to be able to claim a place in their ancestral land will be those Christians who emigrated.

Tuxar, while I have come to sympathize with India against the Pathologicalstan, I am well aware that my Christian brethren in places like the northeast of your country and Udaipur have a few grievances of their own, despite a general loyalty to their country. Maybe if Indian states respected conversion and restrained Hindu thuggery against Christians (let's add the Buddhists, too, since I understand that Shiv Sena and similar groups are appalled that low-caste folks in Maharashtra became Buddhists), there would be less common cause with Muslims.

Re the other postings which ask if Christians matter, of course we do. The center of God's plan of the ages is the community gathered around Christ. Our faithfulness or lack thereof is central to the general health of the world.

God is not mocked. Hence, I entertain the pious opinion (I do not claim to be a prophet) that the reason why the pathetic lie called Islam--that travesty which has produced nothing but slums surrounded by desert-- now runs amuck is because supposedly "Christian" leaders can only smile and say "Yes, yes" when our culture embraces abortion, homosexuality, and the idolatries from whence these spring. And, perhaps, the real reason why the old Christian communities are being uprooted from the Holy Land may well be the willingness of their leaders to join with Muslims in castigating the Old Testament as "racist", when it is in fact the only Bible the church had for about 2-3 decades.

Posted by: Kepha at December 18, 2006 7:11 AM

Kepha, of course you are right.
There are times I forget that we don't have to fight this battle alone. I do get caught up in the cares of this world.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 18, 2006 11:36 AM

One more thing...
Satan must be so smug about taking Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus.
Enjoy it while you can, the Day is coming quickly.
It says in scripture that things will grow dark and evil will seem to overcome the world...in the end ...well, let's just say Jesus will not allow evil to be victorious.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 18, 2006 11:42 AM

As a Hindu and an agnostic (those are not mutually exclusive) I can attest to the sheer stupidity and malevolence of Christian organisations in India as they align with the jihadis over "minority rights" issues and stoke Muslim appeasement all funded by Western mega churches whereas they let their poor brethren in the holy city of Bethlem perish for the sake of appeasing the Muslims.
I get it. Us dirty idol worshipping heathens are less worthy of respect than Muslims because Muslims are oh so monotheistic and yes jews are christ-killers.
We get it.

Suffer the consequences.

_______________

Dear Tushar,

Jews are not Christ-killers. Theologically speaking, as a Christian, I would point to myself first, on account of my sins, as being a Christ-killer, before I would point to anybody else, Jews or other-wise. However, I will certainly join you in my disappointment at the complete stupidity exhibited by wealth American churches that actively support terrorists, unwittingly, that harm India and Israel.

Posted by: Monkeywho at December 18, 2006 12:14 PM

Kepha

I agree with Hugh and Tushar. If Christian missionaries were really interested in delivering people's souls, there are some 130m of them that could be delivered. If those missionaries had the cajunes, they would have gone to the Muslim majority areas in UP, Bihar, Bengal and started converting Muslims. The Left in those parts loves to brag about its secularism: let's see how secular they are once Muslims, rather than Hindus, are targeted for conversion. I agree that thuggery against missionaries is out of place, and that those unhappy with conversions should strive to change the law, and make it illegal. That's what's happened in Rajasthan, so that any missionary who tries to convert anybody is now breaking the law. (I don't support this law, btw, since it prevents Muslims from being converted as well).

I have a high opinion of Christians in the West, who tend to be ahead of the curve when it comes to recognizing the Islamic threat. However, those in India seem to think that the 130m Muslims there are going to save them, and they also seem completely oblivious to the treatment that Paki Christians get at the hands of the local Mohammedans there.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at December 18, 2006 1:28 PM

To the posters above asking about Christians.

We are here. We are strong, and we are united. We see the threat of islamism. We know what to do. Don't worry or fret for us, as we will be fine in the battle that is to come. We quietly prepare the defense that will be needed. We do this without guilt and without hesitation. We know what is in the Bible and we know what is in the Torah, and all of this BS that we see unfolding right before our eyes was prophesied over two millenia ago. It's not as if we are clueless.

There are 4.3 billion non-muslims walking this Earth. This includes Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Athiests, Sikhs, Universists and others. I do believe that most of the 1.3b muslims are muslim in name only. There are quite possibly hundreds of millions of closet non-muslims awaiting their liberation inside muslim countries.

The radical, vocal, orthodox muslims may think that they have center stage with their bloody protests and disgusting behaviors, their demands and their abominable acts committed daily. If push comes to shove, trust me... The muslims will lose, and they will learn a lesson that they and their potential future followers will never, ever forget.

Kafira.

Posted by: SexyKafira1 at December 18, 2006 3:59 PM

I am also quite shocked at all of the anti-Christian sentiment on this website, especially in response to a very sad story. Quite revealing, indeed.

Posted by: SexyKafira1 at December 18, 2006 4:04 PM

Assalamau Laikum SexyKafira1,

Kabbah, Sophia in Turkey, myrids of other temples teh world over, now Bethlehem....notice the trend Kafira1.

The vatican is only a few generations from sharing the same fate. Let me outline the colourful scenes for you Kafira1.

Kebab stands 1 mile in from the vatican, eat the best ones, sliced and diced Halal chicken with green pickled chillies...MMmmmm. Flowers available from other stands, and closer to the vatican, new huts built where peoples take off their trainers and arabic style shoes.

Little stools are in the huts to sit and wash your feet, spittons to spit in after gurglilng your mouth and then it's into the vatican ...where the red carpet has been replaced by green.

A little stage will be built where the mufi will lead prayers.

To the right of this there will be a sort of a smaller stage where worshippers will offer a chador together with the flowers they brought earlier. As the chador is laid peoples will shout Allaha Akbar...toun hi toun , toun hin toon (there is only you, there is only you).

The infedel will count his sorrow of this magnificent scene through tears but the mufti will carry the message of Islam with sword in hand..."how dare the infedel ask for the vatican back, who do they think they are....this is the house of Allah...as it has been ordained since the time of the corruption of the bible"....

and then he will really go for it like the mufi in "What the West needs to know" DVD did.

And the response from the West....

Why another DVD ofcourse.

Posted by: Naseem at December 18, 2006 7:24 PM

"don't you Christians even have any gut sentiment from childhood Christmas and carols? "

poetcomic1

I'm Christian. My faith is not sentimental. Nor is it based upon Christmas carols. Your comment is ignorant and you insult yourself.

Posted by: Daisytoo at December 18, 2006 8:40 PM

What a truly disgusting, even nauseating specimen the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, is. No wonder British Christendom is so imperiled.

Posted by: Infidel33 at December 19, 2006 12:21 AM

but the mufti will carry the message of Islam with sword in hand...

I agree the message of Islam is carried through the use of the sword. just ask Nicholas Pearl, or any number of Islamic beheading carried out by Musab Al-Zaqarwi, or by Muslims in Iran,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Thailand,Indonesia,or any number of Islamic countries.

The Mufti is but a messenger of Satan and the message is death.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 19, 2006 12:34 PM

I meant to say Nicholas Berg

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 19, 2006 12:36 PM

What a truly disgusting, even nauseating specimen the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, is. No wonder British Christendom is so imperiled.

Yep. The present Archbishop of Canterbury and Archbishop Desmond Tutu are the most evil church figures since Torquemada. Their antisemitism is at least as rabid as that of the aforementioned Spaniard.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at December 19, 2006 5:47 PM

Funny how the Naseemtroll mentions DVDs, but we all know the DVD and computers wouldn't have been invented had the entire planet fallen to the savage sackwearers like Naseem.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at December 19, 2006 5:51 PM

How utterly disgusting. Not a single infidel is allowed to go into Mecca, and yet Muslims believe that they have the right to barge in and take over other people's Holy grounds!!!

I am a Christian Agnostic, and the thought of Satans Army trampling their way through Bethlehem makes me feel angry, and very disappointed at our world leaders for not looking at the plight of non-Muslims living in Muslim terriroty.

We should be doing all of the following:
- Global education on the dangers of Islam. This means teaching the Muslims themselves exactly what sort of things Islam REALLY teaches. Most of them would reject Islam after learning that Mohammed was a terrorist, pedophile, rapist, genocidal maniac with mental problems and a disturbed demon possessed childhood. Got to admit, it's hardly the character profile for a messenger of God.
- Help India and Israel to ward off attacks
- Preserve our secular western values back at home.
- Proselytization of other religions in the area to show people the many alternatives to Islam: good choices would be Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Neo-Paganism, since all of those religions preach peaceful messages.

We need real meaningful UNITY with all of the peace-loving religions of the world if we are to stop this monster. Islam wants nothing short of world domination, and if we back the wrong horse we will get our just deserts for our stupidity.

I believe may well be living through the 'last days' predicted in the Bible, but rest assured, Islam won't win because it can't, and it's can't win because the light of truth is always more powerful than any web of lies. 'The meek will inherit the Earth' means that Islam won't be around for too much longer. I give it 100 years or less before Islam suffers mass apostasy and dies, at which point the word 'muslim' will become an insult. This stone age cult is maintained by a handful of thugs in many Muslim countries, remove the thugs, allow the people to have a secular government (using the points I describe above) and Voila... a democracy fit for the civilized world is born.

Our faith in God and the wisdom of our future choices is the best hope we can have. The West is waking up.

Posted by: Truthseeker at December 20, 2006 9:52 AM

In 2000, Pope John Paul ll, on behalf of the Catholic Church, apologized for any Christian atrocities committed during the Crusades. His apology transcended politics; it was a matter of morality. Too bad that the actual infidels in Bethlehem, the Muslims, are completely literal-minded and took the apology as their due .. without a single thought of apologetic restitution of their own .. and also w/out awareness that the Pope apologized for atrocities committed .. Not for the Crusades themselves, which as a Christian, I understand were necessary albeit certainly problematic. Too bad too, that the Crusades did not have a different outcome ... the Muslim's successful seizure of parts of the Holy Lands was a most unfortunate outcome with results that are unfolding as I write.

The legacy of the Crusades for Christians was, I believe, a healthy devaluation of the Holy Land as "sacred real-estate". However, that devaluation has neither been necessary - not would it be healthy for the Jews, who have an eternal covenant with the Land itself. As for the Muslims, I really don't know why they believe they have any claim whatsoever ... excepting for their imperialistic designs for a world Caliphate, which is disgustingly greedy and meaningless.

Posted by: Daisytoo at December 20, 2006 2:54 PM

Daisy,

The reason the Muslims believe that the land of Israel belongs to them is because there is a Fatwa (Muslim religious order) that all land that used to belong to the Muslims but doesn't any more is land which the Muslims can and should take by force. Combine that with the jihad ideology and you can see why the Palestinians want Israel 'wiped off the map'. The Koran states that everything belonging to the 'unbelieving infidels' is okay for a Muslim to take, including the women and children as slaves. It is not just about the land.

This goes beyond politics or territorial dispute, it's the Satanic Surahs speaking yet again.

Posted by: Truthseeker at December 21, 2006 3:50 AM