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It's easier that way, just as in the case of the cemetery that decided to bury everyone facing Mecca: the Muslims stand for something, you see, and the non-Muslims don't. So the path of accommodation is easiest -- for those bereft of any sense of the value of their own culture and traditions.
"Parents angered as every pupil is given halal school meals," by Andrew Buckwell in the Daily Mail:
Halal meat is being served to pupils in state schools without their knowledge, even if they believe the religious slaughter is cruel.Parents have reacted furiously after being sent letters telling them their children's school dinners have been all-halal for 'some time'.
To conform with Jewish and Muslim religious tradition, animals are prepared for halal products by having their throats slit while conscious - a method many people believe is inhumane and which the RSPCA has condemned.
The meat was introduced at four schools in the Reading area with a high proportion of Muslim pupils. But parents of non-Muslim pupils - between 20 and 50 per cent of the schools' roll -say they were not consulted.
Coach driver Andrew Weston, 37, who has a son and daughter at St John's primary school, said: "We received a letter saying only halal meat was being served and had been for some time. I was shocked.
"The way the animals are killed for this meat is barbaric and cruel. Our children should have a choice."
Abdul Dean, ethnic minorities officer for the Christian Peoples Alliance, said: "Christian children should be given an equal chance to have non-halal meat. The school should have explained the situation to parents at the outset."
Last month, a head teacher in Rotherham caused an outcry when she said she intended to replace traditional turkey with halal chicken to create an 'integrated Christmas'. Jan Charters, head of Oakwood School, backed down after complaints by MPs.
A spokesperson for Reading Borough Council said: "The decision was taken several years ago. Schools thought it was the appropriate choice for their multi-cultural community. We are increasing options at the four schools by offering fish each day."
The other schools where only halal meat is served are New Town, Oxford Road and Alfred Sutton primary schools.
Earlier this year, an RSPCA pamphlet stated: "Muslim communities in the UK should review their slaughter practices. Research demonstrates that slaughter of any animal without stunning can cause unnecessary suffering."
And what if you aren't concerned about animal rights? Then what difference does it make if the meat is halal or not, right? Wrong: this sets a precedent, that Islamic norms are to take precedence over others. And that will lead to much, much more than halal food in school cafeterias.
Posted by Robert at December 17, 2006 5:10 PM
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Note the schools names and come back in a couple of years..........white flight, these schools will soon be overwhelmingly muslim as the parents of non mulsim children seek alternatives. This will probably be exacerbated by the fertility rates currently inherant. If urdu or arabic on the curriculum now, it will be.
I wonder, do the Animal Liberation Front view halal as haram.
Posted by: rudekid![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 17, 2006 5:38 PM
Where are the animal rights brigade when you need them? Too busy threatening lone female anglers and protesting outside shoe shops from what I've noticed.
And where are the Labour MPs who delighted in banning fox hunting? So silent now.
Posted by: Celsius at December 17, 2006 6:20 PM
Muslims don't give a rat's rump about nonmuslim humans getting their throats cut. Why should they care about animals?
When my kid has an objection to the lunch menu (she hates burritos) we pack her a lunch.
Posted by: USBeast at December 17, 2006 6:31 PM
At this rate all the female students will be forced to wear a burqa. You know, to avoid offending religious sensibilities and to respect the cultures and customs of other people.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at December 17, 2006 6:40 PM
Are there no atheists all of a sudden none that say separation of church and state no law suits,no cries for freedom of choise no free the animal banners no vegetarian complaints,no Hindu complaints what the..............
Posted by: mark52 at December 17, 2006 7:12 PM
Lawsuit time. Lots of lawsuits.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 17, 2006 7:47 PM
This is just a halal appetizer of what is to come.
In India lot of Islamic eople don't follow family planning. So there has not much planning and education going on. As a result the community stagnates. Now whose fault is that? Obvious it is because of Hindus bias!!!!. So now muslims want reservation and politicians are active because of VOTE.
Expect something similar in Britain. Future may not be bleak but it is going to get lot difficult.
People in UK understand India/Pakistan and partition. Jinnah claimed that muslims are distinct and they need a separate country. Imagine what will happen in UK with current fertility rates!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Desi at December 17, 2006 7:53 PM
Last week it was Islam "kits" for the kiddies, now this. How does a kid NOT become a Muslim with all this crap being shoved down their throat?
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 17, 2006 8:08 PM
The Daily Mail throws in the word "Jewish" in the thrid paragraph of the article with regard to the Halal dietary laws, perhaps as a politically correct attempt to blunt the emphasis on Muslims who are practicing religious compulsion against non-Muslims.
But since the author of the article, for whatever reasons, brought in the word Jewish, I would like to make some clarifications here:
As an Orthodox Jew, I can assure each and every non-Jewish person that we would NEVER require non-Jewish people to abide by our dietry laws. Jewish kids, if they keep kosher, generally bring their own lunches to school, as has always been the case, and we would never force our laws and customs on others. This is fact, not taqia.
Furthermore, halal meat is not satisfactory according to the Jewish dietary laws, for various reasons not relevant here.
Posted by: bob at December 17, 2006 8:18 PM
While I agree that Muslim demands shouldn't automatically be given precedence over everyone else's, I am a bit surprised that there is such an uproar over halal meat. It isn't like eating it contaminates the diner in some way. Halal meat is considered acceptable by both Christians and Jews. To my knowledge the only people who have religious objections to halal meat are Sikhs, who oppose any kind of ritual slaughter.
As for the alleged cruelty of halal slaughter, I don't see it. When you "cut the throat", the actual cause of death is loss of blood from the jugular and carotid arteries. When properly done, with one quick, deep cut, loss of consciousness is virtually instantaneous due to the rapid drop in blood pressure in the brain. I have killed deer this way myself (putting an animal crippled in a collision with an automobile out of its misery) and death was immediate - there was no suffering. I suspect that objections to halal and kosher slaughter reflect skittishness over the shedding of blood rather than any actual cruelty.
Posted by: billposer at December 17, 2006 8:25 PM
I should have indicated that orthodox Jews do not consider halal meat kosher but that this has to do with the fact that kashrut imposes additional requirements that are not part of Muslim law. non-orthodox Jews do not object in principle to halal meat.
at December 17, 2006 8:28 PM
Poser,
Halal meat is considered acceptable by both Christians and Jews.
Welcome to earth, spaceman.
I guess you have missed the myriad discussions about this.
No, halal meat should not be eaten by Christians for the reasons given by the first Jerusalem in the book of the Acts of the Apostles (meat sacrificed to idols) and elsewhere in the NT.
Halal slaughter is much more painful to the animal than stunned slaughter, and the grotesque requirement of intimately holding the animal until dead is surely intended on desensitizing the Muslim butcher to the process. No need to help him perfect his craft with infidel dollars (pounds, euros, whatever).
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 17, 2006 9:04 PM
first Jerusalem council
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 17, 2006 9:05 PM
Poser,
Here are a couple of links to get you started (assuming you are not Salahuddin in disguise).
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014185.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014091.php
at December 17, 2006 9:13 PM
"While I agree that Muslim demands shouldn't automatically be given precedence over everyone else's, I am a bit surprised that there is such an uproar over halal meat. It isn't like eating it contaminates the diner in some way. Halal meat is considered acceptable by both Christians and Jews" - from billposer
While I cannot speak for anyone else, I personally object strongly to eating meat
SLAUGHTERED IN THE NAME OF AN IMAGINERY/BLOODTHIRSTY/PAGAN take your pick) GOD, no matter how humane or inhumane the slaughter was.
I am a Christian and regardless of church pronouncements on the subject, I
consider in totally UNACCEPTABLE.
at December 17, 2006 9:26 PM
It always confuses me how someone can say they respect God's creation (whatever their beliefs) and yet be OK will killing animals for food.
"If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian."
at December 17, 2006 10:34 PM
Concerned Citizen and Silvester,
You can find religious idiots to object to anything at all (some years ago a woman around here objected to the schoolkids attending the circus - she thought that it was satanic), but it remains true that there is neither any explicit scriptural objection to halal meat nor objections as a matter of policy by the great majority of Christian denominations. Halal slaughter does not involve "sacrifice to idols". The meat is not considered a sacrifice, and there are no idols, either in halal slaughter or in Islam in general. If you knew anything about Islam, you would know that it is strongly opposed to idolatry. So you may object to halal slaughter, and I have no desire to impose it on you, but don't think that your objections have anything to do with the rational application of Christian principles to the facts of the matter.
As for halal slaughter being cruel, I note that you merely assert that it is cruel, without any evidence or argument. That is hardly a refutation of my explanation of the physiology or of my personal experience in putting down an animal this way.
As for your suggestion that I am Salahuddin in disguise, for your information I am about as far from Muslim as one can possibly be: I am a Jewish atheist. That is, however, beside the point. It is only evidence and argument that are relevant, not the identity and status of the debater. Only those incapable of rational argument need stoop to ad hominem argument.
at December 17, 2006 10:36 PM
Dear Spaceman (Poser, Poseur),
Did you read any of the links? "Allah" is the equivolent of an idol to anyone that disbelieves in him. The Kaaba to which the animal faces, is an idol. It is not my intent to rehash here all of the hash. Read the "refutations" and "assertions" at the links and if you have issue with those, then maybe post something novel here.
I would think that even a "Jewish" atheist (if you knew anything about Judaism, you'd know what an oxymoron you are) would be offended at a meal ritually slaughtered during the tasmiyah.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 17, 2006 10:52 PM
The Daily Mail writes:
"To conform with Jewish and Muslim religious tradition, animals are prepared for halal products by having their throats slit while conscious ..."
Wrong.
billposer writes:
"non-orthodox Jews do not object in principle to halal meat."
You're wrong. If you're familiar with kashrut,
you know that it has nothing to do with halal.
If you follow the Jewish dietary laws, you
observe (some form of) kashrut. While it is true
that kashrut is (much) more widely observed by
Orthodox Jews of any branch (Lubavichr Hasidim to
Modern Orthodox Soloveichiks) I know many
Conservative and even a few Reform Jews who
follow those laws, and you can't feed them all
the same thing. If you follow kashrut, in principle, you object to eating halal but non
kosher meat.
For those not following kashrut, who cares? They can eat pork and shellfish too, it's irrelevant.
They won't object to anything on religious grounds, but may still dislike Islam enough
to reject halal meat. I'm in that category.
Just because you're arguably from some Jewish
background, it doesn't mean you are an expert
about Judaism. And satisfying kashrut, especially in a Jewish crowd of mixed levels of religiosity,
is non trivial. I have experience in this matter.
at December 17, 2006 11:28 PM
Wait til it finally dawns upon the British that Muslims actually detest dogs.
Posted by: Caroline at December 17, 2006 11:59 PM
halal meat is slaughtered with a RELIGOUS ritual. and since i dont worship allah and since the teachings of jesus or yahwah are the polar opposite it would be a blasphemy for me to eat food that was sacrificed to what i consider an idol or false god.
Posted by: jimmytheclaw at December 18, 2006 12:04 AM
One way or another, it is the fault of the Jews:
"To conform with Jewish and Muslim religious tradition, animals are prepared for halal products by having their throats slit while conscious - a method many people believe is inhumane and which the RSPCA has condemned.
The meat was introduced at four schools in the Reading area with a high proportion of Muslim pupils. But parents of non-Muslim pupils - between 20 and 50 per cent of the schools' roll -say they were not consulted."
The Muslims are just along for the ride.
Posted by: emet-veritas at December 18, 2006 12:59 AM
Comfortable left-wing Larry in his Lazy Boy lounger begins to consider how ascendant Islam will change things. He thinks to himself:
"Slitting the throats of Buddhists and other assorted Non-believers (read: Non-muslims) in faraway places is one thing, but WHOA, these are poor defenseless animals we're talking about here. That's just wrong."
WHOA Larry! Right? Wrong?
Left-wing Larry is experiencing cognititive dissonance and quickly recovers and remonstrates to himself:
"How dare you impose your value system on someone else! It's just another culture that you do not fully understand! If only they had more job opportunities they wouldn't do things like that! Western Colonialism is to blame! It's no worse than Christianity!"
For a minute there Larry was uncertain, but he has now regained his center of being and will sleep contentedly tonight, like so many others of his type. It will take more than this to jolt him awake.
Posted by: alexon at December 18, 2006 1:44 AM
Noone seems to have considered that this is illegal.
Under EU Law public contracts must be open to tender to suppliers throughout the EU. I bet this contract was not.
It is hard to see how specifying halal slaughter as the basis of tendering does anything but restrict the contract to one or two halal suppliers in a district who can then engage in price-fixing.
Putting out such contracts so secretly suggests an opaque deal somewhere.
Simply said - we should ban all forms of slaughter which do not conform with EU rules on abattoirs and prosecute anyone supplying halal meat altogether
Posted by: Voyager at December 18, 2006 3:20 AM
In a plane, one has a choice of whatever meal they want. Of cousre, special meals have to be ordered ahead of time, whether they be vegetarian or kosher. Why can't they do the same thing in the schools? And why the hell can't the Muslim kids bring their lunch from school? Of course we all know why this is happening, don't we? It is to - little by little - take over British institutions. They start with little things like children's lunches. We can only imagine where it will end.
Posted by: TeachESL at December 18, 2006 6:54 AM
So this is the thanks Pakistan gives Britain for giving them a part of India.... poetic justice, one might say.
Posted by: Alert at December 18, 2006 7:07 AM
I might expect this sort of policy and practice in a Muslim country but not in England. It makes halal the unspoken, unquestioned norm for all.
One religious group is setting the rules for everyone and that is wrong because it takes away our freedom of choice and our freedom not to be governed by the rules of someone else's religion or diet.
Posted by: Josephine at December 18, 2006 8:19 AM
This comes up every so often, and is always quashed once parents are aware. And parents are getting more and more aware.
The halal meat was stopped in Rotherham last month, and in Ilford Essex, thanks to alert Sikh parents, last year.
at December 18, 2006 1:00 PM
A true selling out of tradition, not to mention a cowardly disgrace.
at December 18, 2006 2:01 PM
if westerners core beliefs are freedoms/choice then we should practise same. meals should be chosen
brits above everybody else used to believe that bullies are not to be given into
but the european left cant wait for the muz to take over for it would mean the end of capitalism
Posted by: god at December 18, 2006 2:35 PM
savage is right. leftism is a mental disease
Posted by: god at December 18, 2006 2:36 PM
Poseur...
Stop POSING and POSTING in the name of Christians.
CHRISTIANS FIND HALAL PRACTICE ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.
I am an Orthodox Christian and halal would NEVER be acceptable to me or to any of the religious or spiritual Christians I know.
When halal slaughter is being carried out there is a fixed formula that needs to be recited : 'In the name of Allah, the Most Kind, Merciful' etc.
Even if we agree that their Allah is a version of our God, or is in fact our God, one NEVER kills an animal 'in the name of God'. What's God got to do with it? Is God to blame because we decide plentiful fruit and veg among a variety of rich foods are not enough for us?
If the EU decided that animals go stunned before being slaughtered, it is for a reason. And beside that reason your arguing that they 'feel virtually no pain' is foolish and ridiculous. You are asking for 'evidence' that they 'feel' something? Why, do you feel something -anything at all,ever? Glad to let you know animals are as sentient as you are. Try slitting your own throat with a cut as 'sharp and deep' as possible, then argue. The evidence you are crying for circulates all over the internet in thousands of clips that demonstrate what horror all slaughtered animals endure- LET ALONE HALAL SLAUGHTERED ONES.
I am not a vegetarian, but I try to consume as little meat as possible (the many Orthodox calendar fasting days are of much help)
and ALWAYS check the source- it should be animals that were raised and slaughtered with as little cruelty as possible.Things your average Muslim doesn't give a damn about.
at December 18, 2006 2:36 PM
Check this out and express you disgust-
http://www.unstunnedhalal.com/
What cheek these people have!
INDEED, WHY SHOULD ANIMALS FEEL LESS PAIN WHEN THEY CAN EXPERIENCE MORE TORTURE?
at December 18, 2006 2:49 PM
If you can bear to read a Guradian article, this one has an interesting take on the halal meat industry. Essentially claiming that it's bogus.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,1041058,00.html
at December 18, 2006 2:52 PM
zaltys
excellent.....anyone for halal light
Next time I'm out for an "indian" I'll have to insist on halal with my lager
Posted by: rudekid at December 18, 2006 3:24 PM
What a POS lie! Jewish kosher desires weren't taken into account. This is all about accommodating the delusional believers in a non existent allah
THERE'S NO ENGLAND NOW!!
Posted by: dennisw at December 18, 2006 4:06 PM
"...and ALWAYS check the source- it should be animals that were raised and slaughtered with as little cruelty as possible."
Posted by: SayuriAlina
That's a good point. I never ask the grocery store chains or butcher shops about that. I just assume that, because I'm in Canada, the proper procedures have been followed. I'm going to see if I can learn more about this issue. Thanks.
Posted by: Josephine at December 18, 2006 4:13 PM
Without going overboard here, all US folk remember meatless Fridays in all public schools to accomodate Catholic children. I agree changes to any culture are incremental and using dietary changes are a pretty damn intimate way to effect dhimmitude. Im saddened that our european forefathers are slowly, steadily caving in to religous bullies and approaching neuterdom. when will you folks cut the crap??
Posted by: icanplainlysee at December 18, 2006 4:36 PM
Blogger Cranmer has an interesting post on the Sikh aspect to this story:
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2006/12/compulsory-halal-meat-in-uk-schools.html
"The origins [of the prohibition], as ever, have more to do with the politics of identity, but it is a sustained article of belief for Sikhs all over the world -- they are simply not permitted to eat halal meat at all. In Reading, they have been doing so without their knowledge.
"Consider for one moment if these schools had been serving reconstituted pork disguised as some other meat, without the knowledge of Muslim students or parents. There would be uproar, with a high-powered delegation of 'senior Muslims' to Downing Street demanding national repentance and a global apology, to which the Prime Minister would doubtless acquiesce..."
at December 18, 2006 4:38 PM
SayuriAlina
"one NEVER kills an animal 'in the name of God'. What's God got to do with it?"
Well it's not far from christians thanking god for what they are about to receive.
Posted by: rudekid at December 18, 2006 4:46 PM
Sorry, as a Christian I don't want to eat something which has been dedicated to Satan. Nor do I want my children forced to eat it.
Posted by: CrazyFool at December 18, 2006 5:00 PM
The point is that it was sneaked w/o consultation - and is of another religion, in particular islamic.
Allat
Posted by: allat at December 18, 2006 5:07 PM
"all US folk remember meatless Fridays in all public schools to accomodate Catholic children. "
Never happened in the public school I went to...lesse, they served some horrible spaghetti with peanut butter sandwiches and dessert was some ice cream wrapped in paper. We kids loved it, but today, I shudder.
But there was no catering to any religion in my school - only the Jewish kids were let out early for Hebrew classes.
Allat
at December 18, 2006 5:25 PM
Britain is no longer "great." She has fallen before her Muslim minority to a status beneath their contempt. The queen and prince of Whales have bowed the knee to these dirty, lice-ridden creatures, and have surrendered their sword ("defender of the faith") to the true apostates and infidels. They have lowered themselves to beneath the level of pimps and prostitutes.
Is there any hope for our home-nation? Will English disappear as a language and a culture before the inferior Arab horde?
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 18, 2006 6:05 PM
I totally agree with billposer, can you people hear yourselves? Your as bad as the muslims.
Ooooo no. My meat was prepared in a different way Boo hoo. The muslims have got one over me.
If I danced around a cow singing 'Aluha Teletubbies jezabell' would you care?
Of course you wouldnt because its meaningless. If your not a muslim and you dont believe in any of there customs why would it effect you?
This is more about your personal pride than anything else.
Posted by: BlowHammed at December 18, 2006 10:59 PM
Billposer
The entire religion of islam is idolatry! That has nothing to do with halah meat. Muslims much pray towards a specific location...that equals idolatry. Muslims must try to visit Mecaa and circle around the black stone...that equals idolatry.
I disagree with halah meat as it is part of an idolatrous religion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have no problem with Kosher food. My Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ was a Jew and ate Kosher food, so I'm sure that I can, too.
at December 18, 2006 11:15 PM
BlowHammed
This isn't trivial as you seem to believe. It is a major difference of religions. If, as you write, you want to "dance around a cow singing 'Aluha Teletubbies jezabell' would you care?" I have no problem with that, unless you actually worship the teletubbies.
My problem with the whole thing is that allah (the pagan moon god) is invoked during the slaughter and that it is towards Mecca.
The Bible says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. That should keep Jews and Christians from eating Halah meat.
at December 18, 2006 11:27 PM
Ooooo no. My meat was prepared in a different way Boo hoo. The muslims have got one over me.
Don't be idiotic !
We have LAWS on animal slaughtering in the European Union and abattoirs spend a fortune meeting those requirements.
An exception was made for the small amount of kosher and halal meat for religious minorities.
Now we find this exemption from EU Law is being used to gain market share at the expense of those who uphold our laws.
Simply we shall have to make Halal Slaughter and Kosher Meat illegal
Posted by: Voyager at December 19, 2006 3:07 AM
http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/define.html
What now becomes abundantly clear for halal purposes is that:
1. An animal should not be dead prior to slaughter
2. A Muslim should perform slaughter
3. Any flowing blood of the carcass should be completely drained
4. Choice of modern and in vogue method has to be considered with caution and, it should be mirroring to the Islamic ethos
Since pork is forbidden, halal slaughtering must not be done where pigs are slaughtered or in the vicinity of pigs slaughtering area. There are a few more edicts and rules that have to be followed in the interest of animal welfare. For example, animal has to be fed as normal and given water prior to slaughter, one animal must not see the other being slaughtered, knife should be four times the size of the neck and razor sharp, and as far as possible the slaughterer and the animal should face Qibla or Mecca and, animal must not be suffering with any ailments or any lacerations.
HACCP – Hygiene
Halal Food Authority takes it for granted and are appreciative of the fact that all slaughterhouses and abattoirs in the UK have established HACCP systems in their premises and operations, and are approved by the EU.
at December 19, 2006 3:18 AM
SayuriAlina
"one NEVER kills an animal 'in the name of God'. What's God got to do with it?"
Rudekid
Well it's not far from christians thanking god for what they are about to receive.
It is AS FAR AS IT GETS.If you are suggesting that just because I have certain religious feelings I should feel inadequate and embarrassed,and overall as ridicule-ridden as a halal-aspiring Muslim- try again.
Firstly, I was discussing the issue from the most sensible approach there: animal welfare.
Secondly, you are aware that, as the atheist I assume you are, you place yourself in a tiny minority and there you will stay for the rest of your life- consequently refraining from being unnecessarily unreasonable towards believing people may come very practical to you.
Thirdly,if you feel a pressing urge to be cocky about your non-faith (in the wrong context:this is a place to expose Islam and come up with solutions, not to take a piss(0) at Christianity), you may as well come back after at least 2000 and preferably between 10000-20000 years. All ancient cultures revolve around spirituality of some sort and most of the contemporary world as you see it is a product (by-product,co-product,post-product)of, reaction to and consequence of Christianity.
Perhaps in 2000 years you are going to be able to show us the magnificent contribution of atheism; till then learn.
Fourthly, being an ungrateful type who thinks that the world revolves around himself and that, being the belly-button of it, he has nothing to be modest about and no one to give thanks for is NOT everybody- so no, it's not halal-like to be modest and give thanks for what you are about to receive. If I were you I'd better get used to it because many people are going to show gratitude for a long time.
And last, one can of course thank God for Godly things, but should avoid saddling God's back with one's own personal options- and unacceptable options at that.To thank God for the existence of strawberries is not the same as 'killing in the name of Allah', whether it is a human or non-human animal you are slaughtering and whether the reason is alimentation or other.
May I add -and I am not a Catholic- that there can be no comparison between Catholic vegetarian Fridays and the all-halal. A weekly vegetarian day is extremely healthy and provides an occasion to learn food discipline. Halal is a shameful, morally and ethically unacceptable practice and all it teaches children is that their bellies come first.
at December 19, 2006 5:42 AM
SayuriAlina
Well thats me scolded!
All I was alluding to was from my perspective, there doesn't appear to be that much difference other than the time frame of the invocation in relation to the "passing of the knife". No doubt some religiously minded people will be able to ellaborate. From your post, I'm "non the wiser".
I wasn't attempting to be cocky vis a vis christians, unfortunately it was the only reference point I have, other than islam. Maybe its because I'm the by-product or post-product of christian culture.
In respect to christianity/faith, I just don't get it. I find the concept of any particular religion to fairly irrational / unreasonable. Does that make me an aetheist, I don't know, obviously from your assumptions, it does! I've been called worse. In terms of the contribution of aetheists, thats a tricky one as there's probably not that many people who walk round with the "tag" but are contibuting all the same.
As for being ungrateful, where does that come from?
at December 19, 2006 1:35 PM
There is a world of difference between giving thanks to God for the food that we are about to receive and the pagan ritual of slaughtering an animal whilst saying prayers to Allah whilst facing Mecca.
Mecca is the home of the stone known as the Ka'bah, which is in fact a representation of the Phrygian goddess, Cybele. I only became aware of the connection to the goddess Cybele recently, but I sensed that this was the case as I have been reading about the rituals involved at the hajj.
If Allah was the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who is the same God of Jews and Christians, then there would be no need to face Mecca.
The Muslim practice of slaughering animals is based upon the Jewish rituals involving animal sacrifice, which is no longer carried out. It was one of the many ideas that the brigand by the name of Mohammed stole from the Jews and Christians when he formed his parody of a religion. Islam is not a religion, it is a theocracy, and we who are Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc should not be forced to give in to any of the demands of Muslims with regard to how animals are butchered for the sake of eating meat.
The worship of Cybele, the goddess of fertility, at the hajj is an idolatrous practice, and as such I believe that Islam should be seen as a pagan religion, and not as something that has origins with Abraham.
Since I believe that parents should be providing their children with school lunch, and that schools should not be providing free meals, I believe that Muslim parents should provide their children with their own lunches if they want them to have halal food.
No child who is not Muslim should be forced to eat halal food just because Muslims always want their own way in everything.
Posted by: Maggie4Life at December 19, 2006 4:34 PM
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