Provide them an odd number of stones. That should do it.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at December 30, 2006 6:31 PM

First it's anti-bacterial gel, then it's gas chambers and nuclear war! You know how these things go. I think it's imperative that hospital workers get rid of the gels, publically apologize to the Muslim community, and then commit ritual mass suicide to atone for their culturally insensitive sins.

You know, I don't drink alcohol at all. But, unlike some people, I have achieved a level of scientific understanding that allows me to roughly understand how alcohol works and doesn't work. I can see why it would be confusing for someone who is indefinitely roleplaying a 7th century person.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at December 30, 2006 6:50 PM

The Muslims need to become educated that the alcohol that is in hospital setting is way different than the alcohol that is consumed.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at December 30, 2006 6:54 PM

I just checked a bottle of hand sanitizer-- 62% ethyl alcohol. But I'm assuming there's a similar process in the UK where, to avoid taxation, that's "denatured" alcohol, i.e., sold with additives to make it undrinkable.

Even though the ethyl alcohol is still there, I never heard of anyone getting a buzz off of hand sanitizer.

Posted by: MarisolJW at December 30, 2006 6:57 PM

I don't so much blame the muslims for doing what they damn well please.
If I were them, I might even do the same, knowing the fools I'm dealing with.
As far as I am concerned the blame falls squarely on the Brits, who are deservedly taken for a ride with their spineless multicul sensitivity.

Posted by: Kim Hartveld at December 30, 2006 7:01 PM

OT, but Saddams Execution Video

Saddam refused the hood, the executioners needed it to protect themselves from vengance..

And here is the Execution Video

I don't speak Arabic, but catch words and Saddam does not seem to be mentioning Mugtada al Sadr, nor does anyone else.. there is a lot of Jabber about Muhammad after he is hung, and if you freeze frame towards the end you can catch him in what is almost a decapitation.

Video seems to be taken from a cell phone.

Posted by: Nariz at December 30, 2006 7:10 PM

I am a great admirer of Robert and his site but this story has a whiff of urban legend about it.

Correction: it smells of steaming horse poo.

But but but...I am sure one or two Islamist loons will be quick to dismiss the story as false, claiming that Muslims are being victimised again...

...and THEN they will demand that all alcohol-based disinfectants are removed from NHS hospitals out of respect for Muslims.

Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at December 30, 2006 7:16 PM

You know, I was told by a Muslim years ago that if, for example, a pig were the only thing around for you to eat you should eat it. That attitude would certainly apply here. Anyone know anything about that?

Posted by: pneumatikon at December 30, 2006 7:17 PM

A Nonny Nonny:
I am a great admirer of Robert and his site but this story has a whiff of urban legend about it.

I believe that, when it comes to Islam, anything is possible.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at December 30, 2006 7:32 PM

This is very typical Muslim behaviour - if they think a course of action conflicts with their religion they will ignore any obligation to carry it out, usually with an air of disdain, confident in the belief that they are obeying the laws of god rather than any absurd strictures the kaffirs may have come up with. I heard of the case of a school where Muslim pupils kept tossing the toilet rolls into the wc pans, presumably because toilet paper is un-Islamic.

Posted by: wallyUK at December 30, 2006 7:32 PM

Why does this simply NOT suprise me?

Posted by: Concerned Canadian at December 30, 2006 7:37 PM

"I believe that, when it comes to Islam, anything is possible."

JC Supercop - yup!

You can have sex with a sheep, cook it and serve it to an infidel but you cannot use mouthwash.

It's a funny old world.

Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at December 30, 2006 7:44 PM

Jesus Christ Super Cop:
Well said!

Here is a scenario along the same lines:

Let's suppose that the H5N1 bird flu hits Europe and America with a "worst case scenario" People are dropping like flies. Hospitals and funeral homes can not keep up. Dead bodies everywhere. A solution to stop a spread of disease and to bury the dead is cremation. However, moslems refuse to cooperate as burning bodies is against their "religion"

Do ya think we have a politician courageous enough to challenge 'em.

Anyways, this is just a hypothetical...what do you think?

Posted by: Sir Oinks Alot at December 30, 2006 7:57 PM

Betcha several foods or ingredients contain haram molecules. Every now and then something crosses an invisible line, like this disinfectant, and becomes de facto haram. Would these loons undergo surgery in an operating theatre that had not been disinfected using detergents containing alcohol? No? What is the difference here?

I have a Somali woman as colleague at work, a student of biochemistry, no less. One time she gave me a chocolate bar that she told me she had bought by mistake and couldn't eat. Didn't specify why, but I guess it was due to gelatine, made from pigs, being one of the ingredients. That got me wondering how far down the chain of food processing these molecules become halal again; surely some of the constituent atoms will sooner or later end up in, say, lamb or beef. On the molecular level, food prohibitions must be broken by every person every second due to contamination or supermarket food being processed using the same machinery. Hey, maybe we should promote this fact: by staying in our countries you will incur Allah's wrath through eating haram food. Better get home ASAP.

Posted by: anti-uffe at December 30, 2006 8:04 PM

There is a very simple solution to this. It's called soap. Let's pick our battles, folks.

Posted by: Sylvia at December 30, 2006 8:29 PM

When did anti-bacterial soaps start being fermented?

Posted by: 3812Michelle at December 30, 2006 8:52 PM

It's the 7th century mind ya know!

Soap would be a reasonable substitute.

Posted by: credit man at December 30, 2006 8:55 PM

Isopropanol is a fine substitute. If anyone complains that all alcohols are forbidden they would have to include water. H2O has an OH group so it counts as an alcohol.

Or maybe they could have their own wings of the hospitals where no one washes their hands. They never "scrubbed up" before gallbladder surgery in the Prophet's time did they? This whole "modern medicine" business is kind of taking the prerogative about life and death out of God's hands anyway.

Posted by: Chuck the Lucky at December 30, 2006 8:59 PM

Would be suitable for an episode of "Scrubs."

Posted by: Hugh at December 30, 2006 9:00 PM

Sylvia and Credit Man--

Actually, halal soap is another can of worms. A lot of soap apparently contains animal products, which raises the issue of what kind of animal, and how it was slaughtered. So there's halal soap.

So, even if hospital staph -- I mean, staff -- insisted visitors objecting to the alcohol in the gel wash their hands with soap and water, there would be that to contend with, which brings us back to the matter of special treatment: Provide halal soap for Muslim visitors? Special sinks with fixtures untouched by hands that handled regular soap? It's hard to rule out any level of absurdity.

It would be much easier on everybody if they just used the gel sanitizer. I figure if there were a way to get high off the stuff -- the reason consuming alcohol is haram -- a bunch of frat kids would have figured it out by now.

Posted by: MarisolJW at December 30, 2006 9:31 PM

Alcohol is created when yeasts consume sugars. The by-products are carbon dioxide and alcohol. Yeasts are in the air everywhere. Early alcohol producers left sugary liquids out in the open, where they were fermented by yeast floating around. A bottle of apple juice I forgot in my closet as a kid must have been 80 proof when it was found months later. I believe that any food that contains sugar has some degree of fermentation, and a resulting alcohol content.

Put down that chocolate bar.

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that Allah isn’t after you…

Posted by: pez at December 30, 2006 10:28 PM

A related story:

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi on Friday defended a court’s decision to sentence five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor to death for infecting more than 400 children with HIV, but said mystery surrounded the case.

http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/31/the-scandalous-silence-of-the-western-media/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at December 30, 2006 11:09 PM

Why go to the hospital in the first place? If allah meant for you to get severe gonorrhea, then chalk it up to his will and deal with the consequences. If allah wants you to heal, you will heal.

Mohammed's personal doctor didnt have the ability to give an IV or innoculate him against rabies, so what was good for Mighty Mo should be good enough for any modern-day muslim.

Or is modern medicine to be yet another hypocrisy that islam practices; the desire to live so much of their lives under 7th century religious laws unless it intrudes on their modern health, comfort and pleasure?

Posted by: Bacon-I Will Miss Thee at December 31, 2006 12:18 AM

It's jihad inch by inch. Every little niggling consideration is carefully designed to make infidels open their eyes to Muslims and perhaps to demoralize them a little more. Drip, drip at first and then comes the torrent.

Some of these stories may well be overblown by the tabloid press. It doesn't matter - to the Mulsims it's always useful propaganda. In fact the stories may actually give a false impression, as if to suggest that people may be feeling outrage at these incidents. The truth is that, in Britain, capitulation to Muslim sensitivities (and sometimes threats) is so deeply embedded amongst the authorities that they're hardly aware that they're doing it any more. And everybody else as been trained to shrug their shoulders and say "they have their ways and we have ours".

There have been a number of well-documented Mulsim health issues in recent years. Not necessarilly affecting the wider population but at least putting some extra strain on the health and welfare services. One being the very high levels of children born with congenital disabilities due to about 60% of marriages being consanguineous. Naturally the Muslims have an answer for that - allow more immigration. Another is the recent outbreaks of children born with rickets due to Muslim women wearing all enveloping clothing.

I recently attended a hospital appointment and I noticed a sign on the wall which said "All those who need interpreters will be given priority". Well we know who that means and it seems reasonable at face value to want to limit the expense of interpreters. Except that one consequence is that if you speak the native language of your own country then you're automatically at the back of the queue.

Sometimes it's scam too. I once went to court with a Muslim cabdriver who had knocked me down. He was charged at the time with reckless driving by a police witness. The driver had been full of apologies but once we got to court he had suddenly forgotten how to speak English. A sympathy tactic I suppose.

Posted by: zaltys at December 31, 2006 12:19 AM

Surely the first duty of our hospitals is to the patients in their care?
Visitors who refuse to follow hospital rules should not be allowed to enter the wards at all! Visiting is not a right!

Incidentally, I believe that 2007 is the Chinese 'year of the pig' - surely that should be celebrated in style?

Posted by: Sencit at December 31, 2006 1:08 AM

Would be suitable for an episode of "Scrubs."

In another world, perhaps. In our world, it would be impossible for the writers and producers of Scrubs to use this story in any way that might conceivably hint of being insensitive to, and therefore bigoted against, the great religion of Islam and its vast majority of good and decent Muslims who are currently suffering from so much Islamophobic prejudice. If it were used in our real world, it would present the whole thing exactly reversed from the way we Jihad Watchers see it: the story, with Zach Braff's cocky yet sentimental voice-overs providing narrative flow, would revolve around perhaps Dr. Bob Kelso -- a perfect foil for a "bigot" -- complaining about some Muslim interns who are refusing to wash their hands with alcohol-based soap, and then as the show went along (involving a dozen other wacky subplots), the whole thing would turn out to have the moral that we need to respect other cultures, blah blah blah.

Posted by: remote_control at December 31, 2006 2:31 AM

Chuck the Lucky: "If anyone complains that all alcohols are forbidden they would have to include water. H2O has an OH group so it counts as an alcohol."

Sure. Water can be described as hydroxyl alcohol. And glycerin is technically an alcohol.

zaltys, do not forget the problems that "tainted" polio vaccine caused in Muslim areas of Africa.

"Just think of it as evolution in action." Jerry Pournelle

Posted by: jay at December 31, 2006 2:34 AM

"Moslem Only" wards or entire hospitals, with Moslem staff (I love MarisolJW's "staph", still LOL), where nothing is disinfected would be a two-part solution.*

______________________
*I prefer--what-is-it-again?--a 7% solution?
(Sherlock Holmes) although that is definitively [sic] haram

Posted by: unicorns62000 at December 31, 2006 2:49 AM

Dispensers containing anti-bacterial gel have been placed outside wards at hospitals

Sounds good but they are not easily seen. In our hospital it took a while to notice what it was since there were NO signs and it was stuck to the right of the double-doors.

What should happen is a return to the days of limited Visiting Hours............then people would queue before the doors open and written instructions painted on the floor and illuminated above the doors could INSTRUCT people to use the soap dispensers and NOT to sit on the bed

Posted by: Voyager at December 31, 2006 3:42 AM

Oh , i take it a local shop here run by a muslim family must have dispensation to store and sell copious amounts of alcohol ?
Muslims make it up as they go along.

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at December 31, 2006 3:51 AM

Maybe they think hand sanitizer is another Zionist plot to offend Muslim "sensibilities."

Posted by: Charles M. at December 31, 2006 5:33 AM

There is alcohol in a myriad of personal hygiene products, like deodorants and moisturisers. I can see this problem causing a huge stink.

The hospital should exert its authority and ban people who refuse to follow health and safety rules.

Simple..

Next story.

Posted by: payingattention at December 31, 2006 5:44 AM

This is my latest slogan and I will keep saying until it is mainstream.

Complain about Muslims and THEY will brand you a Racist.

Funny because Islam is n't even a race it is a quasi religious , fascist political system based on a 7th Century Death Cult.

THEY are the Muslims themselves and those in power such as government, senoir management.
As is the case in the above NHS hospital scenario people shrug their shoulders and say little for fear of instant dismissal.This is how THEY are controlling the UK and paving the way for Sharia. Similair tactics were used in the Retail organisation that I used to work for and I did lose my job for speaking out.

Anyway, my suggestion is we add some alcohol to the water supply for at least 10 years and solve the biggest problem facing Western civilisation.

Posted by: raz at December 31, 2006 6:26 AM

When are people going to wake up to the fact that this is pure incitement and contentious behaviour to frighten the infidel?
It seems that the three false cartoons added later to the original 11 Danish toons incident was not enough to demonstrate the Islamist's behaviour to incite and intimidate.
What will it take before the kafir becomes antagonised?

Posted by: Cynic at December 31, 2006 8:08 AM

StillFedUp wrote:
that comes in handy with the muslim only ward or muslim only hospitals. At that point who cares if an epidemic starts because the superior master race doesn't clean its hands?

Don't forget that Ghadafi is going to execute a Doctor and several foreign nurses because children died of AIDS on their "watch".

Posted by: Cynic at December 31, 2006 8:13 AM

Why not provide a camel urine dispenser for them?

And for those who suggested mulsim only hospitals...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/wmuslims105.xml

Posted by: Celsius at December 31, 2006 8:21 AM

Stupid, stupid people with a stone-age mentality. The solution is so simple, yet seems impossible to enforce: anyone refusing to follow the hospital's rules should not be admitted to the ward. End of story.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at December 31, 2006 8:28 AM

Not using sanitizer, deodarant, toilet paper and then millions at at time sticking their butts up in the air honoring their moon god, talk about dirty bombs and biological attacks.
Yes, these people are beyond wacko, last year a co-worker ran out of a cafeteria because he smelled pork cooking, just smelled it. Barred from paradise for smelling pork or sanitizing yourself, what a stable cult, er, religion.

Posted by: firster555 at December 31, 2006 9:14 AM

Jesus Christ Supercop:

"I think it's imperative that hospital workers get rid of the gels, publically apologize to the Muslim community, and then commit ritual mass suicide to atone for their culturally insensitive sins".

LOL. That would have been ratified by manufactured mayhematma masochistic gandi.

Sarcasm off/

Posted by: Crows&Cows at December 31, 2006 10:51 AM

The entire work of generations to figure out the causes of disease and sickness spreading undone. Can we limit our "sensitivity" of other cultures to things that don't directly contradict empirical science? Is that really too much to ask?

What do Muslims think we've been doing in the West for the past 1400 years? Don't they have any clue that for a good portion of that time we've been trying to advance our knowledge of the world, nature and the universe? Then, you have this lunatic explaining why the Nobel Prize is a Jewish plot

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP135906

I get the impression that they think all we do is sit around getting drunk and having promiscuous sex. Which we do, but that's only part of the equation. I know Muslims spend about half their waking hours praying, but we Westerners spend it discovering things.

Posted by: venividivici at December 31, 2006 12:32 PM

From the article:

"Murray Devine, head of safety at health watchdog the Healthcare Commission, said: “The solution should be ensuring Muslims have access to soap and water. There’s no substitute for good old fashioned soap and water.”"

From what I've read, soap and water are fine for everyday washing, but in a hospital setting they don't provide the necessary cleansing action. Hence, the reason they were invented, Murray.

Posted by: venividivici at December 31, 2006 12:50 PM

vvv: They may spend half their waking hours praying. From personal observation, they spend the other half sitting around drinking tea. I can only speak for Saudis, but few read for pleasure. I almost certainly have more books in my house than all my Saudi coworkers combined.

There is little original, world class theoretical or practical research coming out of the Muslim world.

Many of the intelligent Saudis I know are lazy. And advanced phyics, mathematics, and engineering require WORK. Another problem is that if you do find a bright, motivated kid, he almost certainly will not have the family connections to get into a good school. And a child who wins a Quranic recitation contest is more valued than one who wins a national science contest.

None of the world's top 500 universities are in the Muslim world.

I read the MEMRI article. Snicker. The article does illustrate one common Muslim attitude: "My problems are always someone else's fault."

Posted by: jay at December 31, 2006 1:14 PM

Perhaps Muslim "dirt stations" could be set up in British hospitals. Seeing that alcohol is "najis", in a pinch, dirt is acceptable for cleaning
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/miscellaneous/simplified_islamic_laws/islam2.html
...ayammum is permitted on the following: earth (dirt), sand, a lump of clay or a stone, if they are tahir.

Posted by: Hubert the Friar at December 31, 2006 1:21 PM

Jay,

Yes, I can't believe the mentality that says "Everything you need to know is in the Koran". At least the ancient Greeks had two books, The Iliad and The Odyssey, to provide them with a set of cultural ideals. See, Western civ is at least twice as good as Islam!

I was reading a quote from some imam the other day where he said "We'll take the kaffir's technology and science, but they can't touch our Islam". I was like, screw you, buddy, wallow in your own filth for all I care, since I know that's what you were doing for centuries before UNICEF or whoever started showing up at your village with donated food and medical aid made possible by Western technology. I'm supposed to work all day developing technology for you to live better, then endure Shari'a and dhimmitude at night when I go home? Hot damn, sign me up!

Posted by: venividivici at December 31, 2006 2:39 PM

can i know why my posts on this topic have been deleted? (2 posts)? was it only me off topic?

am I worthy?

Posted by: StillFedUp at December 31, 2006 3:27 PM

The hospital should exert its authority and ban people who refuse to follow health and safety rules.

Simple..

Next story.

Not so simple.

The actual story is not the Muslims who eschew these cleansers, but rather the hospitals that won't do much or anything about this out of irrational "sensitivity" arising, in turn, out of our Western societies' dominant and mainstream PC multiculturalism -- and that story, I'm afraid, will be with us for a long time to come, and we can't just move on to the next. It is, in fact, the story, in whose plot we small minority who "get it" are still, sadly, marginal characters.

Posted by: remote_control at December 31, 2006 5:21 PM

Re Chuck the Lucky's statement that water is an alcohol. Sorry that is not true. Having a hydroxyl group (OH) is not sufficient for a compound to be an alcohol. An alcohol is a compound in which a hydroxyl group is bound to a carbon atom of an alkyl or substituted alkyl group. Water does not satisfy this definition as it doesn't contain carbon at all.

As I understand it, Islam only prohibits the consumption of alcohol, not other uses of alcohol. This is confirmed by a number of Muslim sources. See, for example, this article: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1532826.htm,
which quotes a Saudi physician as saying that some medicinal uses of alcohol are permitted. The same article mentions that the refusal to wash with alcohol is more common in European countries than in Muslim countries. It seems like this is an example of people taking a position that is not actually required by their relgion in order to distinguish themselves from non-Muslims.

Posted by: billposer at December 31, 2006 6:33 PM

Heh, wouldn't it be fantastic if this type of behaviour, ie not washing hands, results in the total destruction of Islamic civilization?

Or perhaps Satan would protect this from happening.

Posted by: TheVoiceofTruth at January 1, 2007 12:03 AM

Talk about ironic situations. Alcohol was originally an Arabic word and for good reason. The Arabs were the first people to demonstrate purification of alcohol by distillation. At one time, they were the center of higher education in many fields including our numbering system. They sure fell off that lofty peak.

Posted by: JeromeFromLayton at January 1, 2007 12:19 AM

Sorry but the proper hygiene and people's lives in hospitals is way more important than Muslim sensibilities. They have a choice to either use the gel or not go onto the ward, plain and simple. How dare they demand to not to have to use the gel and put lives at risk! That's made me angry.

Posted by: Truthseeker at January 1, 2007 1:29 AM

The answer is simple. Create Muslim hospitals where "Muslim" science is used. No technology that is the fruit of Western Civilization would be permitted. We wouldn't want infidel creations making them all "ghusl" and "najis" would we?

Posted by: Hubert the Friar at January 1, 2007 2:38 AM

Yet they'll dunk their bare feet in toilets before they pray.

Posted by: DCWatson at January 1, 2007 9:05 AM

UK: Muslims refusing to wash hands in hospitals

Guess we know why Muslim dignitaries choose to come to Western hospitals when they get sick.

Hubert the Friar said

Create Muslim hospitals where "Muslim" science is used. No technology that is the fruit of Western Civilization would be permitted.

The Muslims in Holland have already made this demand. Seriously. No urban-legend. Really.

I have no problem with the "two culture system", especially when it comes to hospitals. But we infidels should be able to have an inspection team to go into the Muslim hospitals and verify that they are not using any haram, non-Muslim technology. And to be fair, there should be Muslim inspection teams going into the infidel hospitals to make sure we're not using an odd number of stones, or camel urine, or dirt, or other Muslim technologies.

Darwin has the solution.

Posted by: special_guest at January 1, 2007 1:19 PM

I have said this for a while. When I was at the hospital with a relative recently a Muslim doctor went right past a gel dispenser without touching it right to a patient in casualty.

It is the Muslims who are giving us MRSA, notice how MRSA is always in areas with high numbers of Muslims?

MRSA is also a huge problem in Pakistani hospitals. Now I wonder how it got to Britain Mr Bliar?

Muslims should have their own hospitals, the odious brutes are unable to grasp the concept of basic hygiene.

Posted by: IceDragon at January 1, 2007 3:00 PM

Also, many Muslims don't use soap because they say it was invented after Mohammed, which explains why they smell like the devils when you stand to close to one.

Posted by: IceDragon at January 1, 2007 3:11 PM

Bleach is a good old-fashioned non-nonsense germ killer. Perhaps they should make them scrub up with this as an alternative.

BTW, don't a lot of disinfectants used on wounds etc. also contain alcohol? What to do in that case? Let them fester?

Posted by: angloirishslav at January 2, 2007 8:55 PM

Hey you ignorant mo-foes!!!! isopropyl alcohol is chemically different from ethanol.

You can't drink isopropyl alcohol. It's not the same thing as you find in wine. Neither is methanol or 'wood alcohol' the same thing as ethanol. Ethanol can be broken down by the human liver and will cause drunkeness. Methanol and isopropyl alcohol will simply blind humans or poison them.

You stupid sons of Mohammed. It's not the same thing!!!!!!

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 4, 2007 12:13 PM