Does this include mental health care?

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 12, 2007 7:46 AM

I'm in favor of this, so long as it's restricted to MENTAL health care. No other group needs that more than this one!

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 12, 2007 7:47 AM

Muslims always want some extras, usually causing extra costs, so they should pay it, too. It's ridicoulous to demand, that the majority should finance all the extra regulations for muslims. Muslims can have their own health service, provided they pay for it or let Saudi Arabia pay. It's really wonderful, if you read the dialogue of the two guys above, there's no word about the costs, obviously it'd be racist to ask any questions about the economic consequences of not so bright religions.

Posted by: dadaism at January 12, 2007 8:12 AM

"“Muslims have the poorest overall health profile "

....what do expect from a people who kill their doctors, kill the doctors teachers, kill the doctors patients...all of which goes on in Muslim countries.....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 12, 2007 8:45 AM

It's the National Health Service. Not the National Health and Stupid Religious Superstitions Service.

And they have the temerity to compare themselves to the Jews of Nazi Germany with their persecution complex.

Posted by: Celsius at January 12, 2007 8:57 AM

Now they're asking for an islamic NHS to cover male circumcisions. Can female genital mutilation be far behind ?

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at January 12, 2007 9:00 AM

"Now they're asking for an islamic NHS to cover male circumcisions. Can female genital mutilation be far behind ?"

No, that's usually done with a dull rock.

Posted by: Motor City Madman at January 12, 2007 9:27 AM

That Muslims would even ask for such things should be as clear as a blow to the head. The True Believers are not subtle at all and are sharp as a marble about pushing their agenda. Willful ignorance is the reason why this 'debate' continues.

It's almost funny.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 12, 2007 9:53 AM

I have to say that "circumcision" for anything other than medical reasons is nothing more than "elective-surgery" enforced on the child by the parents ... i.e. CHILD ABUSE

I don't approve of "elective surgery" anyhow - all big breasts and lips - but the idea of adults enforcing their perverted surgical desires on their children when they have no say in the matter is sick ...

this has nothing to do with religion - just my desire to live in a world where people have a choice.

I'll say it all again so there is no mistake:

Mandated enforcement of circumcision for religious or cultural reasons is little more than child abuse - unless there is a genuine medical reason - and we should resist the legal genital mutilation of children (male or female) of ANY religion ..

Anything else is the gateway to something else - and I don't think we want to go there ...

Posted by: drk at January 12, 2007 10:13 AM

Tony Blair , Ruth Kelly...Gordon Brown and the rest of the traitors , have you seen this morons?

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 12, 2007 10:42 AM

Not that long ago a newspaper reported that (I believe it was Denmark?), that a European country was split on the issue of allowing separate hospitals for Muslims only. What's truly annoying is not so much that group X wants a separate hospital (I believe there are Catholic hospitals, etc) -- the enraging bit here is that Muslims won't pay for themselves, they expect non-Muslims to foot the bill for their separate hospitals -- this is the problem. Muslims want Dhimmis to pay for Muslim separation -- that's the ridiculous part. And, if Dhimmis do this, Dhimmis have acknowledged their own inferiority and consequent superiority of Muslims.

Posted by: J.S. at January 12, 2007 10:47 AM

“Muslims have the poorest overall health profile..."

I'm not surprised. These guys are so concerned about our spiritual health to the point that they want to kill us that they are neglecting their own physical health. My suggestion to them is to leave us infidels alone-it will improve their health immeasurably.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 12, 2007 10:49 AM

NON-MUSLIMS SHUD HAVE TO PAY EXTRA TAX (JIZAH BABY) FOR EXTENDED DhimmiCare to finance the muslim special needs.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 12, 2007 11:42 AM

I suppose you get weary of their stupid demands, my first thought was good, less chance of the non-Muslims getting infected by that killer bug as the Muslims refuse to wash their hands in the alcohol soap that kills them. And they can pay for it with their own taxes, that should pay for a bout 1 small cottage hospital, LOL

But seriously their demands are becoming so outlandish and aggressive, I can not help but see this as an attempt to stir up the Brits to get seriously pissed with them, so that the hearts and minds fail as we are anti Islam, then the Jihadists become defacto leaders of the Islamic war machine.

Perhaps they think that the Brits are so placid and PC that they can say and do anything, perhaps they are right.

Posted by: Daffersd at January 12, 2007 11:43 AM

Mandated enforcement of circumcision for religious or cultural reasons is little more than child abuse - unless there is a genuine medical reason - and we should resist the legal genital mutilation of children (male or female) of ANY religion ..

drk,

A little extreme, don't you think? You don't happen to have previously posted under "August 22"?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013701.php

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at January 12, 2007 11:53 AM

Boxter-

"Where are the angry Brits? Why do we, Americans, have to keep being angry for crap happening to Brits in Britain when they seem to not care about loosing their own culture and country?"

The "Angry Brits" are right where they've always been; Ignored by their elected politicians for being ideologically inconvenient, sidelined by the media because their views aren't conducive to the promotion of leftist agenda and, in their masses, persecuted for voicing their objections to such.

I've said it before and will say it again: We are a diverse nation; But our diversity comes from our regional identities and not, as our elitists would have us believe, from how many "Foreign Johnnies" we let in here to take the mickey out of our entire way of living. Those regional identities are, by their very nature, given over to a very strong sense of belonging to that identity.

It often surprises me to hear the question "But what does being 'British' mean anymore?". Often asked, I would say, by those who would seem to have have lost their own sense of "Where they came from".

While the character and accentual traits of the capital and surrounding areas seem to be melting down into a hotch-potch of many different cultures and languages, those of many of the regions, particularly those of the North, are becoming stronger with each passing day. Scousers become more "Scouse", Geordies become more (And thus more unintelligibly) "Geordie", Glaswegians become more "Glaswegian".

All this only happens because we are damn proud of who and what we are. We do not "Forget where we came from" and are happy to let the world know it with every word we utter and every character quirk we affect.

Try and tell these diverse peoples how to live their lives and you'll see angry.

Try to tell them Who to be, or what to be....... Then you'll see something else entirely.

And we don't do "Pretty".

Posted by: Wishbone at January 12, 2007 11:57 AM

Isn't this (AHEM!) Profiling?

Will Jewish (and Christian) patients get male circumcisions or is that only reserved for the holy elite?

Posted by: CrazyFool at January 12, 2007 11:59 AM

Sorry Wishbone, I wish I could see it, but we have become a load of bitter moaners, powerless and impotent waiting for the roof to fall on our heads.

Posted by: Daffersd at January 12, 2007 12:00 PM

An individual patient's dignity should be honored by those attending him/her. Respect should be shown for all, which is not the case in many hospitals, where the employees are overwhelmed and understaffed. However, it has to be a two-way street, which Muslims always have a hard time accepting. Trained hospital staff should not have to accomodate issues such as same-sex care givers and patients, Muslim staff refusing to follow hygiene procedures, such as not washing their hands before treating a patient, female circumcision. Does anyone know what percentage of doctors in Britain are Muslim? I think that the percentage will determine how much these new demands are met. Rich Brits could always come to John Hopkins or Mayo Clinic for treatment. Ordinary Brits will continue to suffer because of or at the hands of the Muslims in their midst.

Posted by: maryrose at January 12, 2007 12:05 PM

Aside from the ominous implications of this clear call for a Sharia Health Service paid for by the tax paying non-Muslims of Britain, are the true Brits aware of how infantile this all sounds?

Through relying on their government to provide their utopianist NHS, The Great British People have been reduced to a pathetic state of impotent humiliation relying as they don on a system of mediocrity, bureaucracy, and inefficiency.

This has caused an auto-immune disease in their culture and community -- something which then allows the opportunistic infections of Islam to enter the system to work their evils upon it. Those Muslim doctors couldn't have asked for a better system to parasitize than this socialist and preposterous boondoggle of Nationalized Medicine.

Wake up before it's too late!!

This sad communistic approach, as much as anything else afoot in your society, is wiping the cohesion of the United Kingdom away.

You've drifted so far left, that I'm hard put to find anyone arguing against communistic boondoggles such as the NHS in the UK. Where's your opposition? In the UK, most "right wingers" would be considered extrememely left of center Democrats in America. You need an opposition in the UK -- and some non-utopianist reality based solutions. Nationalized Healthcare is making your country VERY SICK!

Posted by: jsla at January 12, 2007 12:06 PM

Yet another demand for special privelages for muslims. At a time when we are told that 50% of their youth are unemployed (for unemployed read claiming benefit). What exactky to these people add to our society? They have seen that they can use this governments idiotic multiculturalism to push forward their plan to islamisise the UK.

It's time to shut the marriage loophole that muslims have been exploiting for thirty years to continue the colonisation of this christian country. They should be given no special treatment.

I now live in a country whose politicians are destroying the heritage of 68 million people for fear of insulting a couple of million people who claim they came here for a better life. In fact we all now know that they came here to take what they can, abuse who they wish and turn our country into yet another violent, sexist, racist, ignorant islamic country.

The joke is that they are claiming they are being oppressed purely to introduce an appressive society.

Wake up and smell the sharia.

Posted by: DaveMate at January 12, 2007 12:32 PM

These Muslims just never give up. Everytime I see an article like this it's always the same "Muslims WANT" or "Muslims DEMAND". They always want and demand. Screw them-let the infidels get what THEY want in their own countries for a change-namely, a country free of "wanting" and "demanding" Muslims.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 12, 2007 12:36 PM

I am all in favour of a separate health system for muslims.

Everyone should have the choice to join it or not, and the choice would be final for the rest of their live.

Furthermore, the system should be financed by those who chose it, without any cross-financing from the normal system.

Everybody would be happy, wouldn't they?

Posted by: FreeSpeech at January 12, 2007 12:39 PM

The global jihad is relentless, it will never stop. Health care is under siege everywhere, not only in Britain. The West has plurality and equality in health care. Yes, hospitals have praying rooms for those who require a spiritual retreat, but medical treatment should not be differentiated on religious grounds. I urge the NHS to resist this assault.

Posted by: Jan Vink at January 12, 2007 12:39 PM

They already have an NHS, but it's in Pakistan. Whats the problem?

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 12, 2007 1:03 PM

Viscious attack by a gang of adult men, on a young boy at school. The gang calls itself "Asian invasion". No idea who these Asians are but one of them is named Mohammed.

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/display.var.1118812.0.arrests_made_following_hammer_attack.php

Posted by: DP111 at January 12, 2007 1:14 PM

I dont know if this has been posted.

More preachers of hate in the UK.

"King, Queen, House of Commons... if you accept it, you are a part of it," says Dr Ijaz Mian. "If you don't accept it, you have to dismantle it.

"So you being a Muslim, you have to fix a target. There will be no House of Commons. From that White House to this Black House, we know we have to dismantle it.

"Muslims must grow in strength... then take over."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_method=full%26objectid=18442715%26siteid=94762-name_page.html

Posted by: DP111 at January 12, 2007 1:19 PM

Personally, I am very much in favor of a separate health care system for Muslims in the U.S., as I am strongly in favor of female Muslims wearing the beekeeper suit. For the latter, it certainly helps resolve identification issues which clears up a lot of matters.

As for a separate health care system, all I know is that when I was in the hospital a few years ago, there was a Moslem ranting on about Jews; luckily, he was discharged the same day. When I was in the ER, two doctors examined me: one a woman, probably Chinese, and the other, a Moslem. The Moslem almost couldn't bring himself to touching me, leaving all the "messy" stuff to the woman, who was wonderful.

Frankly, the less contact I have with them in every way, the better.

Of course, the best way would be to remove them back to their home countries (or let them choose, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.)

Posted by: Seymour Paine at January 12, 2007 1:19 PM

In response to criticism that Muslim clerics are preaching hate in mosques, the usual response from the so-called moderates is

1. Extremist clerics are a tiny minority.

2. They have freedom of speech.

The freedom of speech issue has been dealt with extensively.

As to the first point, I look at it in the same way as commercial advertisements. If there was no market for them, i.e., advertising was useless, companies would not bother with it.

The same rationale can be applied here.

Posted by: DP111 at January 12, 2007 1:30 PM

DaffersD-

"Sorry Wishbone, I wish I could see it, but we have become a load of bitter moaners, powerless and impotent waiting for the roof to fall on our heads."

I could safely assume then, DaffersD, that you count yourself amongst those self same individuals by the inclusive nature of your statement?. You'll of course forgive me if I don't share your bleak pessimism.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 12, 2007 1:46 PM

To all our American friends who are asking why the British are doing nothing about such matters as these, I will try to explain.
You are correct, in my opinion, that the welfare state creates a situation in which people become reliant on the state. Indeed, if the reality was - 'if you don't work - you don't eat' - we would be living in a far different (and better) society than todays. The same with the health service. However, no first world nation could allow citizens to die just because they have no means to pay for medical care. The point is, here in Britain we do expect to recieve good medical care in our hospitals but the British Islanders do not, in the main, expect anything other than good medical care. Professor Aziz is not a British Islander and, like so many people from his part of the world, once they see something 'free' they want as much as they can get, even if it means others will have to go without. We know this and that is why no-one over here will take any notice of him or his demands. He might as well cry for the moon. So in effect this is a no-story.
Our nations history is one of quiet resolve. But this is accompanied by a sheer and dogged determination. We know that, in times of strife, all our nation can promise us is blood, sweat, toil and tears and we fully accept that, as we have countless times throughout our past. The quiet resolve is now on the boil but it will not show in mass demonstrations or mayhem on the streets. It will be revealed at the ballot box. There are thousands of British Islanders who will, for the first time, use their vote for the British National Party, the only political party in Britain that will put British Islanders first. The swing to this party will be so great it will be more devastating to the existing elite than any mass demonstration or street rioting. Believe me, we over here, have had enough of the stupidity of Blair and his bunch of lunatics. It will not be long before Britain will once again be Great Britain and the recent past will be viewed as a period of sickness that infected our culture but was, at last, cured.

Posted by: Alan(UK) at January 12, 2007 2:22 PM

Gluteus Medical Journal
January 2007

"New Theory of Anal Retentives"

[...]
"Intuitively we know that the *ss is important to thinking. If you have an employee who is being an idiot, do you say to yourself, “I’d better go kick his brain,” or do you think “I need to go kick his *ss”? Only one of those two things will produce better thinking.

And if you have a team of employees that are exceptionally smart and capable, what do you call them? That’s right – a crack team - that’s not a coincidence.

The *ss-brain connection theory goes on to explain the expression "sh*t-for-brains": If you don't take a d*mp once in a while, you end up with a serious "backlog" (so to speak), which will eventually reach your cranial cavity and muddy your thoughts.

Based on these findings, scientists are now proposing an unusual, but non-violent solution to the radical jihadi problem that promises to rapidly propel the jihadis and their supporters into the 21st century. One scientist is quoted as saying: The "backlog" phenomenon could easily be *eliminated* by establishing conveniently located veggie stands, all halal of course, throughout the neighborhoods of the Middle East. In cases of extreme backlog, like we see in most imams, a laxative may be required."
# # #

This article got me to thinking:
Congress should appropriate funds for gazillions of franchises.
If the representatives are still not convinced of the *ss-brain connection, they should finish this sentence:

It is easier to think after I …..

a. Get a haircut
b. Take a d*mp

Personally, I think they'll come around to appropriating funds for millions of franchises, after we kick their *ss.

/ humor mode (geez . . it's been a long week)
~ M. Malinois and Scott Adams

Posted by: Malinois at January 12, 2007 2:30 PM

Circumcision on the NHS is carried out if there is a clinical need for it.

However, when it comes to snipping for religious purposes, the NHS does it for a fee. As it should.

Being the UK, the availability of circumcision services is patchy and the waiting-times vary according to where you live (i.e. if you live in Bradford, the waiting-list will be shorter than if you live in Guildford).

Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at January 12, 2007 2:49 PM

We know that, in times of strife, all our nation can promise us is blood, sweat, toil and tears and we fully accept that, as we have countless times throughout our past. The quiet resolve is now on the boil but it will not show in mass demonstrations or mayhem on the streets. It will be revealed at the ballot box. There are thousands of British Islanders who will, for the first time, use their vote for the British National Party, the only political party in Britain that will put British Islanders first. The swing to this party will be so great it will be more devastating to the existing elite than any mass demonstration or street rioting. Believe me, we over here, have had enough of the stupidity of Blair and his bunch of lunatics.

Posted by Alan(UK)

I wish I could share your optimism Alan. The vast majority of people I speak to on a daily basis here in the UK are blissfully ignorant of the situation. And they all equate the BNP with the Klu Klux Klan thanks to the stigmatisation in the media. The majority of people will never vote BNP because they think they will be voting in Adolf Eichmann or someone even more extreme.

The political correctness virus is endemic and people are unwilling/unable to "wake up and smell the sharia" (thanks to DaveMate from an earlier posting)

Still there's always Eastenders/Coronation Street widescreen HD TV's Beer etc etc etc

Wake up England!

Posted by: hierophant at January 12, 2007 3:17 PM

hierophant, my work takes me all over Britain - Dundee to Penzance - with all places between. I am generally in contact with working class males (but not exclusively so) within the construction industry. The optimism in my posting is a genuine reflection of the consensus shown by those I speak to throughout the length and breadth of the country. Couple this with the recent Guardian article highlighting the fact that middle class (Ballet Dancers) bankers, city gents etc. are joining the party and you may share some optimism? I am not delusional to think the BNP could manage a landslide but I think the swing toward this party will be big enough to draw gasps from the likes of Jonathan Dimbleby et.al.
and should open the gates for some serious soul searching within the established parties.
Interesting times ahead.
If I am wrong I will seriously consider becoming an ice-cream salesman in Alaska.
(For our American friends Jonathan Dimbleby is a well known political commentator here in Britain)

Posted by: Alan(UK) at January 12, 2007 3:41 PM

Hi Alan
I am also in the construction industry but also connected to local government, where I have been indoctrinated into the multiculti-lovey-feely-mind- meld. Very difficult to get out but I did it! My name is.........and I am (used to be) a multiculturalist!

Anyway I hope I am wrong and you are right. I do speak to contractors on a daily basis and the majority are pissed off with the current situation. They like to moan about immigrants but are not aware about the islamic mind set or the implications.

However you travel far more than I do and I hope you have a better/more accurate picture of the extent of the feeling here in the UK.

Posted by: hierophant at January 12, 2007 4:20 PM

Viscious attack by a gang of adult men, on a young boy at school. The gang calls itself "Asian invasion". No idea who these Asians are but one of them is named Mohammed.

Asians ?
Funny that , BBC News 24 described the attackers
in every way APART from thier ethnicity.

Anyway it`s more votes for the BNP and thus the
mass deportations !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 12, 2007 4:39 PM

If muslims are always asking for religious aparteid why don't the British give it to them... deport & contain....

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 12, 2007 4:55 PM

I am not delusional to think the BNP could manage a landslide but I think the swing toward this party will be big enough to draw gasps from the likes of Jonathan Dimbleby et.al.
and should open the gates for some serious soul searching within the established parties. - Alan (UK)

I'm not so sure, might their reaction not be more akin to the Belgians and the outright banning of a political party that presents a threat to the ruling orthodoxy.

Even over here on the American side of the pond, there is a growing discontent with the prevailing ruling elites, but can it be translated into real action and a consequent turn over of the established order, it depends on the anger, over here, not near close enough to boiling point, I don't however know as to just what temperature has been reached over there. The intellegencia on both sides of the pond are definately too smug for their own good, which has the benefit that we, the serfs and plebs, get to see them in all their veniality, naked as a pig, but a lot less attractive.

There is of course the dissaffected, can they be induced to rise from their torpor? The real silent majority could really swing the pendulum, but they would need a real leader, to enervate them for their slumbers: now the question is, what will arise, a Winston or an Adolph?

Posted by: Just Another Richard at January 12, 2007 5:03 PM

Uh.. note to the Mo-Foes in Great Britain. The rest of y'all staying in and mostly freeloading off the Free West:

There are countries that accomodate your medical needs and your religious and dietary needs as well. Oh and your desire for sharia too.

GO THERE!! SCRAM!! Vamoose!! RAUS mit euch!! ¡Afuera! Foutez-le-cant!!! GTFO!!

And since this thread concerns Britain in particular I'd like to repost this little bit of inspiration. May it warm your hearts. Sing it loud and sing it proud!!

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the countenance divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded[sic] here
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear: o clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!

I will not cease from mental fight;
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

!!!!!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 12, 2007 5:05 PM

And they have the temerity to compare themselves to the Jews of Nazi Germany with their persecution complex.
Posted by: Celsius

No, that is not their persecution complex. It's their turnabout-speak. They use it to completely reverse historical meaning and significance.

They know it's bound to deeply offend any thinking and feeling Jew and it's designed to raise pangs of guilt in the psyche of Europeans.

it's a completely cynical perversion of logic and it is how the koran[pi**sh** be upon it] teaches them to think.

But yes, you are right other than that: temerity would be an apt description. Brazenness, gall, cynicism are phrases that also come to mind when I think of their little verbal techniques.

They must be called on what they say each and every time they do! And don't come at me with any self-hating fig-leaf Jews of the Noam Chomsky variety either!!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 12, 2007 5:13 PM

Attention England: Dump the NHC; it's not working.

And, as for faith based care? Attention Muslims: Open up your own damned hospitals! It's been done before. Now git.

"Hospitals in the Roman Empire
The Romans created valetudinaria for the care of sick slaves, gladiators and soldiers around 100 BC. The adoption of Christianity as the state religion of the empire drove an expansion of the provision of care, but not just for the sick. The First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. urged the Church to provide for the poor, sick, widows and strangers. It ordered the construction of a hospital in every cathedral town. Among the earliest were those built by the physician Saint Sampson in Constantinople and by Basil, bishop of Caesarea. The latter was attached to a monastery and provided lodgings for poor and travelers, as well as treating the sick and infirm. There was a separate section for lepers.[6]"

Islamists love to boast that they invented hospitals (and Jesus and math and just about anything else one can imagine). This claim, like too many others, is simply false.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital

Posted by: Daisytoo at January 12, 2007 5:31 PM

And if you do manage to figure out how to open and run a hospital, don't think you can mutilate female genitals. It's illegal and you will be arrested.

Warning Gruesome: For the strong of stomach who are willing to bear witness to evil, read: Infibulation

The form of female circumcision regarded as the most severe is Type III, which is also referred to as infibulation or pharaonic circumcision. This is often carried out by a "gedda," or matron of the village, without anaesthetic, on girls between the ages of two and six. [citation needed]
Infibulation replaces the vulva with a wall of flesh from the pubis to the anus, except for a pencil-size opening at the inferior portion of the vulva to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass through. A reverse infibulation is where the opening is left in the anterior part of the vulva in front of the urethra. After excision, the labia are sewn together, and since the skin is abraded and raw after being cut, the two surfaces will join via the natural healing and scar-formation process to form a smooth surface. The girl's legs are tied together for around two weeks to prevent her from moving the wound. [18]
The sewn-together labia majora are slightly opened before sexual intercourse by the girl's husband — girls will often be married at 12–16 years old — or by his female relatives, whose responsibility it is to inspect the wound every few weeks and open it some more if necessary.
During childbirth, the enlargement is too small to allow vaginal delivery, and so the infibulation must be opened completely and restored after delivery. Once again, the legs are tied together to allow the wound to heal, and the procedure is repeated for each subsequent act of intercourse or childbirth. When childbirth takes place in a hospital, the surgeons may preserve the infibulation by enlarging the vagina with deep episiotomies. Afterwards, the patient may insist that her vagina be closed again so that her husband does not reject her.[18]
This practice is reported to cause the disappearance of sexual pleasure for the women affected, as well as major medical complications, although advocates of the practice deny this, and continue to carry it out.

For the rest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

Perhaps Naseem will contribute to our knowledge? Naseem?

Posted by: Daisytoo at January 12, 2007 5:38 PM

Honestly Prof Aziz Sheikh is pissing in the wind (will I get deleted for saying that?) if he believes that there is any money for a Muslim only wing of the NHS. My dad is in hospital with C-Diff and the nurses are already stretched, he only got barrier nursing in a separate room three days after he tested positive for it. (He only got tested positive after my aunty who is a nurse there demanded an interim report from the testing lab.) He’s been on a general ward since Christmas day, yet he caught it on an earlier visit at the beginning of December.

I promise you that the NHS will not provide special care for Muslims because they cannot provide proper care for the general population. MRSA and C-Diff are so rife that whether or not the Muslim sensibilities are offended the many ordinary people I have met on my many visits to Chorley hospital would go absolutely ballistic at the idea that any minority would get special treatment while their loved one wants for a comfy bed and an infection free enviroment.

This guy as I said is pissing in the wind and should be consigned to the one more jihadi’s pile of filth.

Posted by: Mert at January 12, 2007 5:41 PM

DaffersD-

"Sorry Wishbone, I wish I could see it, but we have become a load of bitter moaners, powerless and impotent waiting for the roof to fall on our heads."

It's not quite as bad as you think it is Daffers.. It's just that many of us have to kind of hold back with some of the more effective ideas for resistance - for fear of being deleted or banned.

So please try and read between the lines sometimes :-) I do encourage you to vote BNP. And I encourage the BNP to reach out to Hindus and other non-Mo 'minorities'- it's in your own self-interest. We need all the allies we can get - worldwide. And it's our moral duty to defend one and all from islamic agression. We have to hang our heads in shame for not having done so in the past and for still not doing nearly enough.

We should have international troops in Malaysia and Indonesia since the news of the daily terror against the free-thinking population there have reached our shores. Not that it's much talked about in the MSM though.

The BNP is encouraged to grow up in that regard. We will have hard times indeed if the resistance fails to properly identify and label the enemy.

We will instead continue to be victim to labelling by others [PC and liberal MSM]. We will alienate our potential allies and comrades-in-arms.

Look at what the Ethiopians just did!!

I have mentioned before that an Ethiopian model I know has told me: "oh where have you been?" when I cautiously mentioned the topic of islam. She continued: "We've been dealing with them for 1500 years. We know a bit more about them than you guys." She also said it's about time the Free West woke up and smelled the Java!

Not all dark-skinned people are pro-Mo and not all of them are liberals either!!

They have their own fissures and divisions depending on their ethnic and national and religious backgrounds and whatever else.

I predict a future when alike-thinking people will reach out to one another world-wide to shape events.

We must be among the first to do so. Since we have virtually no power beyond the spoken word. We are not well-represented in government and media nearly anywhere in the Free West. Much less anywhere else!!

This applies to the BNP as follows: If they were
just a bit more open to Hindus and other 'friendlies' like Eastern Europeans they could easily gain HUGE at the polls and become an fearsome and effective political force.

Once such a movement takes hold in one European country - there will be a landslide of Patriotic Freedom parties gaing at the polls all over Europe!

The media will then by default have to move to the right as well.

And the USA will hopefully elect anyone-but-Hilary in '08.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 12, 2007 5:48 PM

I am so angry with these people that it makes me want to scream. Why on earth should anybody be able to demand extra resources from the NHS when it was set up to benefit everybody regardless of their wealth and social standing?

Is this so called Professor so shoved up his own Islamic arse that he cannot see super bug patients being kept on general wards where nurses, and I swear I have heard a nurse say that she doesn’t use the alcohol gel because it will take your skin off your hands. These patients are infecting others.

The guy needs to spend a day on the wards instead of the getting his jollies on the Hizb-ut-Tahir website.

Posted by: Mert at January 12, 2007 5:51 PM

Aladdinsane(sic) wrote:

"Anyway it`s more votes for the BNP and thus the
mass deportations !"

The BNP wish to deport Christian black afro-caribeans, Indian Hindus and Sikhs, Jews, and Irish Catholics.

Fortunately the BNP get less than half a percent of the vote in countrywide elections.

The majority of British people would like to see the BNP and their supporters deported. The only problem is - where to? After all, Nazism was defeated in 1945.

Posted by: schmegel at January 12, 2007 5:56 PM

Liked your post wishbone,

I have said for too long that the world judges Britain on what happens in London. I know that is the wrong way to look at our country.

Posted by: Mert at January 12, 2007 5:56 PM

"Muslims have the poorest overall health profile "

I should say so. What with all the inbreeding and marrying first cousins and uncles, I'm not surprised at all. muslims suffer disproportionetly more from genetic disorders and are a drain on the National Health Service as it is without these extra demands for special treatment.

Send them back to pakistan if they want halal treatment.

Posted by: Hermit at January 12, 2007 6:04 PM

WHY MOSLEMS NEED MOSLEM HEALTH-CARE PROVIDERS:

O dhimmi-watchers verily you understand that a proper Moslem (one who practices "Fitra")would be very embarassed to have to get undressed in front of a Kaffir doctor. Imagine the Kaffir doctor's chagrin when the bearded and hirsute Moslem dropped his drawers and....

(6) Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "To shave the pubic hair. to clip the nails and to cut the moustaches short, are characteristics of the Fitra." (Book #72, Hadith #778)

(7) Narrated Abu Huraira : I heard the Prophet saying. "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra: circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, cutting the moustaches short, clipping the nails, and depilating the hair of the armpits." (Book #72, Hadith #779)

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at January 12, 2007 6:50 PM

boxter posted : Where are the angry Brits? Why do we, Americans, have to keep being angry for crap happening to Brits in Britain when they seem to not care about loosing their own culture and country?

I understand your anger, but believe me we are just as fed up as you are, and also with what is happening all over the West.

For British blogsite that details lot of the stuff see

http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/

Posted by: DP111 at January 12, 2007 7:05 PM

"Now they're asking for an islamic NHS to cover male circumcisions."

Oh, its male circumcisions. I thought for a moment - pity.

Posted by: DP111 at January 12, 2007 7:19 PM

The BNP wish to deport Christian black afro-caribeans, Indian Hindus and Sikhs, Jews, and Irish Catholics.

They need to deport YOU, Schmegel. And the Mo-Foes. It is too bad though, if they should continue to be inimical toward the many people who traditionally have suffered under the yoke of islam.

Your aggressive comments however are less than helpful and I hope you troll on out of here and onto the 'moslem unity' board.

I guarantee you will find a happy home there.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 12, 2007 7:49 PM

"Imagine the Kaffir doctor's chagrin when the bearded and hirsute Moslem dropped his drawers and...."

Speaking of strange fetishes, not Muslim in this case, but in China they would bind up women's feet to make them as small as possible. Many women were actually crippled by that. They also did the tying a womans legs together too. But I still think Islam takes the cake on weirdness.

Posted by: Jenny at January 12, 2007 7:56 PM

"The BNP wish to deport Christian black afro-caribeans, Indian Hindus and Sikhs, Jews, and Irish Catholics."

MeanieMo, please post a link to that. From what I've heard the BNP is a Nationalist organization concerned mainly with slowing or stopping the dhimmification of Britain. I have not heard or seen what you wrote at all. Link please.

Posted by: guest worker at January 12, 2007 8:03 PM

Next Headline:

MUSLIMS ASK FOR ROLL-BACK OF REFORMATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT; Movements called anti-koranic and likely to cause Islamaphobic environment.

Posted by: tokyobk at January 12, 2007 8:17 PM

Making all the special accomodations for Muslims must be costing the Brits lots of dough.

Posted by: Motor City Madman at January 12, 2007 8:23 PM

Speaking of strange fetishes, not Muslim in this case, but in China they would bind up women's feet to make them as small as possible. Many women were actually crippled by that. They also did the tying a womans legs together too. But I still think Islam takes the cake on weirdness.

Posted by: Jenny

Big difference here is: The Chinese *USED* to do these things. And they didn't spout their wish to invade the rest of the world and make us do the same to our women's feet.

islam is the most Borg-like entity I have ever encountered. And our liberals and leftists are their best friends.

islam takes the cake not only for [completely baseless and unwarranted] arrogance but also for inanity, brazenness and abject cynicism.

Of course all of this stems from their innate and deep-seated sense pf inferiority. One that possessed the erratic and less than mentally stable founder of this cult which somehow grew sufficient in numbers to be accepted as a religion among the others - when in fact it is anything but.

A giant mosquito is still a *BUG*. And a little dog like for example a Chihuahua still is a dog.

Not all religions are created equal. That I will agree on with the enemy. Only I know what they profess to worship is not God but Satan.

islam is indeed a Pact with Satan. The promise of instant sex as reward for killing others should be a clue! What sane God would ever demand that His followers destroy his Creation?

islam caters to the basest instincts of men. Wanton sex. Including with younger males and females. Multiple wives.

islam caters to the most debased instincts to torture and kill others in the most gruesome of manners.

In fact it doesn't merely cater to these instincts but it actually encourages them.

Those who commit these violent acts are described as the most ardent followers of the "faith".

Classic hallmarks of a satanic cult.

Let's deal with them like the rabid dogs they are while they only make up a third of Mankind!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 12, 2007 8:41 PM

MeanieMo, Guestworker-

To be fair, have you actually been and read some of the junk that the BNP has on its' website?. Have a read of some of their policy articles.

Maybe it's just me, but after a few articles I got fed up of reading their unadulterated junk. They're an absolute political dead end and bloody lunatics to boot. One article made a point (thinly veiled) that, rather than being Anti-Semitic we should, rather, simply just treat Jewish people as "Any Other Foreigner". To be truthful, I felt entirely insulted as the tone of their rhetoric was more suited to appeal to lunatics and was so badly dressed as rational argument that it never even got past my utter amazement at it's presumption.

It's one thing to send the Government a message by sending a few votes the way of the BNP, But trust me on this: You don't want these idiots leading Britain. I certainly don't.

A line from another blog caught my attention, I don't remember where, but I'd repeat the essence of it here: "British Politics is in need of a major reformation". This is more true these days than ever, as we're stuck with parties that quite simply haven't a clue which direction the nation should be taking anymore although I do hold out some hope for UKIP, small hope that it may be but they're at least getting interesting enough to keep an eye on.

It's my own opinion that proper, honest to goodness, true right wing Conservatism is what's going to bring our country out of this mess; Politicians with balls enough to make hard decisions, a sense of purpose and that purpose tied to the nurture and protection of our nation, it's people and it's heritage and traditions.

Our country needs shaking up, certainly.

But if you give it to the BNP... They'll just break it.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 12, 2007 8:59 PM

Female genital cutting is today mainly practiced in African countries. It is common in a band that stretches from Senegal in West Africa to Somalia on the East coast, as well as from Egypt in the north to Tanzania in the south. In these regions, it is estimated that more than 95% of all women have undergone this procedure. It is also practiced by some groups in the Arabian peninsula, especially among a minority (20%) in Yemen. The majority of Muslim countries (except in parts of sub-Saharan Africa) do not practice it.

The practice is typically found among African and culturally African communities of all religious traditions. The most radical forms of circumcision occur among culturally Sub-Saharan African Muslims.

Posted by: Jenny at January 12, 2007 9:02 PM

"To be fair, have you actually been and read some of the junk that the BNP has on its' website?."

No, I haven't read much about them. But I have not heard what MeanieMo stated from anyone. That's why I asked for a link. Where is their website?

Posted by: guest worker at January 12, 2007 9:10 PM

Guest Worker-

Here you go: www.bnp.org.uk

Obviously, make your own mind up about them. I can only state my own opinions but see what you think.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 12, 2007 9:25 PM

As long as they only prescribe Drugs containing Camel piss cumin seeds and dates, I have got nothing against it. I think that covers the complete lexicon of Islamic medical knowledge as laid out in the Koran.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at January 12, 2007 9:44 PM

Instead of pondering whether to vote for the BNP, why don't Jihadwatchers in Britain, set up their own anti-Islamic party?

How many people do you need to set up a political party? How much would it cost?

Make it anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic, and open it to all who are opposed to the Islamification of Great Britain.

Posted by: Voltaire at January 12, 2007 10:53 PM

Jenny, you say, "The majority of Muslim countries (except in parts of sub-Saharan Africa) do not practice it." (Female genital mutilation) You might want to update your info. While it's true that Islam is not the only religion that promotes FMG, it's certainly one of the most influential. There has been a terrific amount of denial concerning the practice ... or, to use a more appropriate word - Takquia.

"But at the village level, those who commit the practice believe it to be religiously mandated. Religion is not only theology but also practice. And the practice is widespread throughout the Middle East. Many diplomats, international organization workers, and Arabists argue that the problem is localized to North Africa or sub-Saharan Africa,[4] but they are wrong. The problem is pervasive throughout the Levant, the Fertile Crescent, and the Arabian Peninsula, and among many immigrants to the West from these countries. Silence on the issue is less reflective of the absence of the problem than insufficient freedom for feminists and independent civil society to raise the issue."

For the rest see: http://www.meforum.org/article/1629

Posted by: Daisytoo at January 13, 2007 12:05 AM

wishbone

How much of your aversion to the BNP is derived from its past history of loutish behaviour...ie. from its actions in the 70s, as opposed to its current make up. How much of your contempt is pre programmed by the prevailing dialetic, instilled by a willing media and their manipulation of the daily narrative. Anyway, though not a supporter myself, given the current state of degenerate moral turpitutude within all political ranks in the UK, something serious has to give, it is time we had serious discussions as to who or what we will seek to stand with. There simply isn't any other political faction with the spine to stand up for the country. Now you may argue that the BNP and its proposed policies are not in sinc to your political sensibilities...and that is fine, but other than following on with the usual tried and trusted tactics of smear and innuendo, can you offer us anything else. And no, I'm sorry, but so far I do not see UKIP as being the great hope of salvation that you do. They have hardly raised their collective heads above the parapet as to the issue of the Islamification of Britain.

Unless you are prepared to see your country be taken over, and that possibility is not so far remote, for as I recall, the Bolshevics seized power in Russia with less than 20% support, simply by their being the most organised and activated of all the political factions, and totally ruthless to boot: and nobody could say that the Islamaniacs aren't organised or indeed, ruthless. While I do not say a take over is imminent, the danger is much nearer than you percieve. The forces of reaction to the Islamic thrust are in total disarray, and therein lies our great weakness. So far, no one is preparing to stand against the barbarian onslaught and its enablers within the media and the political elite. And before you dismiss this senario as alarmist, consider this, why are the Islamists so bold, why is it that almost daily we hear some new provocative pronouncement from the radical firebrands, whether in Britain, in Denmark, in Norway, in Australia, or anywhere else on the globe. They are stirring the pot, and making certain that there is a wide division between the faithful and the kuffar, they are shoring up the ranks. Their tactics of intimmidation and fear appear to be paying off, for the ruling elites of the Western world are willingly rolling over and appeasing them at every turn. Their perceptions of Western weakness and decadence would appear to be correct, at least from their perspective. The truth is that they have the measure of the moral fiber of our ruling elites. Sad but true, then again, maybe they have done us all a great favour, and have exposed our rulers for what they are, a pack of soulless opportunists, supported and enthroned by a tyrannical self-righteous media, fortified by the convictions of its own superior virtue; though many of us could have told you that years ago, but then would you have listened?

Then of course we have the cultural Marxists in all their current disguises, seeing one last opportunity to ride upon the back of death and chaos to their rightful place as the rulers of man. Forever the opportunists, they are playing interference for the radical Islamics. Given the allies they have picked this time around, just gives one insight into the so called superior intellectual abilities with which they view and operate within this world.

No, the BNP is not the shinning beacon upon the hill, but did you ever consider that given our limited possibilities right now, and there really aren't too many, maybe the better option might be to get involved with the only group out there with the will to confront this unavoidable problem, and thereby exert some influence upon its courses. The more honorable people who become involved, the more some of the more extreme views of the BNP can be constrained.

Snear at the ballerina if you will, she is after all a harmless target for your contempt. But our choices are limited as of now. Unless of course, you have any other options, and again, you'll have to do better than UKIP, for they really are non starters, just the Tories squabbling amongst themselves as per usual, another in a long line of family spats. Prognosticating upon your own personal superior virtues in all their lilly whiteness is not going to get us anywhere. It's time to get your hands dirty, for there is an enormous mess to clean up. This is where the dialogue needs to get serious.

Posted by: Just Another Richard at January 13, 2007 1:51 AM

ISLAMSFORLOSERS

These Muslims just never give up. Everytime I see an article like this it's always the same "Muslims WANT" or "Muslims DEMAND". They always want and demand.

This is so true. There are many in the Muslim community and within the college/university Muslim student councils who sole goal, it would seem, is to make constant demands/wants on everything, no matter how outrageous those claims are. They keep these demands up in hopes that those in authority will give in under the pressure of the constant bombardment of imagined injustices and/or Islam-is-special demands.

The trouble is that many give in because of all the name calling that usually ensues when someone stands up to their demands and tells them to hit the road.

I can't remember who said this, but an author pointed out that ... although Muslims are habitually possessing new areas of every day life with their outrageous demands, it also has a paradoxical effect, in that it is waking up many of those who have had their heads in the sand.

However, the author kind of left it open after that statement. Where does it end then? Does it mean that in a few years North America will be like Western Europe with many countries trying to undo 30 years of multiculturalism? Or does end up with something a little more ominous where everybody wakes up when Islamic law is the norm in North America?

Posted by: Webler at January 13, 2007 2:26 AM

New law to curb cyber blasphemy takes effect

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at January 13, 2007 3:03 AM

This is not attack on the British posters as I could easily find many stories on these type topics in the US or Canada. I'm curious to the demands that have been placed on the police force by Muslim groups or by citizen watch groups.

I've heard that Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has toughened up some by doing away with some of his political correctness zealousness that he was famous for a few years back. I bring him up because of some of the earlier comments about how many in the Muslim community are making constant demands. In policing matters these demands might be detrimental to the safety of the citizenry.

I followed the case of the Muslim police officer who didn't want to do duty protecting the Israeli embassy in London. Do any of the British posters on this board know if there has been an independent panel review of such procedures?

I was also surprised when I read police to brief Muslims before terror raids as I was wondering how do these cilivians know what is credible evidence or not?

One that shocked me more was no shoes allowed in terrorist captures in the Befordshire county.

The guidelines for police offers, according to the paper, include:

• Rapid entry needs to be the last resort and raids into Muslim houses are discouraged for a number of religious dignity reasons.


• Police should seek to avoid looking at unclad Muslim women and allow them an opportunity to dress and cover their heads.


• For reasons of dignity officers should seek to avoid entering occupied bedrooms and bathrooms even before dawn.


• Use of police dogs will be considered serious desecration of the premises and may necessitate extensive cleaning of the house and disposal of household items.


• Advice should be sought before considering the use of cameras and camcorders due to the risk of capturing individuals, especially women, in inappropriate dress.


• Muslim prisoners should be allowed to take additional clothing to the station.


• If people are praying at home officers should stand aside and not disrupt the prayer. They should be allowed the opportunity to finish.


• Officers should not take shoes into the houses, especially in areas that might be kept pure for prayer purposes.


• In the current climate the justification for pre-dawn raids on Muslim houses needs to be clear and transparent.


• Non-Muslims are not allowed to touch holy books, Qurans or religious artifacts without permission. Where possible, Muslim officers in a state of 'Wudhu' (preparation before prayer) should be used for this purpose.

Does anyone know if these were on the level and have been implemented?

Posted by: Webler at January 13, 2007 3:09 AM

New law to curb cyber blasphemy takes effect

KARACHI - In Pakistan the act of using electronic system or device by words, either spoken or written or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the scared name of Prophet Mohammed, will be punished with death or imprisonment for life and shall be liable to fine.

Accordingly the defiling of copy of the Holy Quran using any electronic system or electronic device wilfully will attract imprisonment of life.

I don't see how anybody can not think that we are in a war. Freedom or subjugation.

Posted by: Webler at January 13, 2007 3:15 AM

Wishbone,
You are repeating the mantra of the MSM with regard to the BNP. Before you make sweeping statements perhaps you should attend a BNP meeting and meet with the supporters, I think you will be surprised at the normality of them. As 'JustAnotherRichard' states:

"The more honorable people who become involved, the more some of the more extreme views of the BNP can be constrained."

This is exactly my view and it seems to be what is happening. Normal people with morals are joining the party and these people will not tolerate injustice and rank extremism. What they are all concerned about is the creeping loss of their country, it's institutions and the hard won freedoms that are being slowly eroded. No other party is prepared to defend these things so there is no other avenue. Sadly UKIP is in terminal decline and UKIP members are transfering their allegiance to the BNP.

Posted by: Alan(UK) at January 13, 2007 4:56 AM

It's tough to know how to fight back against the imposition of sharia law in the UK. Apparently most of the politicans lack the will to resist. I undertand that more than few muslim women are wearing the hijab and veil in public. Since wearing the veil presents an obvious security threat, that practice should be challenged head on. The radical islamists are using our own tolerant multi-cultural values to subvert us. So here is a suggestion.
Ban the Veil (and all public mask wearing)

Posted by: sparrow at January 13, 2007 5:59 AM

"It's my own opinion that proper, honest to goodness, true right wing Conservatism is what's going to bring our country out of this mess; Politicians with balls enough to make hard decisions, a sense of purpose and that purpose tied to the nurture and protection of our nation, it's people and it's heritage and traditions."

Posted by Wishbone

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
When I read that I laughed so much I fell of my chair!

The reason we are in this mess is down to successive conservative and labour governments since the end of WWII

Sorry but you will not find politicians with balls in Cama-moron's conservatives. And deep down I think you know that

Posted by: hierophant at January 13, 2007 7:22 AM

boxter: "Where are the angry Brits? Why do we, Americans, have to keep being angry for crap happening to Brits in Britain when they seem to not care about loosing their own culture and country?"

This is such a ridiculous comment. I'm sure there are a number of Brits that post regularly on DW and JW; I'm sure there are thousands of readers. But we Brits don't always go around wearing our national identity on our sleeves.

More importantly, though, about national identity in the context of WWIV: Some Brits sadly identify with their European compatriots more than with their British ones. Others, who are more intellectually honest, would identify not with any nation but with a culture of shared linguistic and historical roots, which happens to connect the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, ie the Anglosphere. Once you, as an American, realise that your country and its values originated in the British Isles, and see beyond the convenient categories of national identity and the nation state, you might also realise that it is the values and culture of the Anglosphere that have made this world what it is and will lead the way against the fight versus Islam. We are in this together. Read James Bennett's book The Anglosphere for some politically incorrect but excellent analysis of our shared values, which have nothing to do with the European continent. And open your mind to the fact that the US has an equally daunting challenge of turning back the tide of sharia as the UK does.

Posted by: exfidel at January 13, 2007 7:24 AM

Just Another Richard-

My aversion to the BNP is based on my own personal opinions, partly due to their policies and partly due to the bunch of idiots so far that I have met that would be its proponents. You point out that it's fine if my political sensibilities are not 'in sync' with those of the BNP, but the rest of your post implies that my viewpoint is based on the broad view espoused by the media and the BNP's ideological opponents. So it's fine to have a merely opposing view, but if I do then it's because I haven't the intelligence to look past media and political spin and see the 'reality' that is your view?.

I never said that UKIP were the 'Great hope of salvation'. I said that they were getting interesting enough to keep an eye on. I also never made any reference to Simone Clarke, much less contemptuous or otherwise.

Disagree with me if you will, but please spare me your condescension. It's those extreme views of the BNP and a lot of its' members that you mention that I'm far from comfortable with. I would agree with a lot of your post with regards to the actions of Islamists in this country and others, but I'd much rather not keep a weasel in the henhouse just to keep the foxes out.

Alan(UK)-

I have met many BNP supporters and some are, as you say, just normal people with a view.

And some of them have been utter morons, not fit to be classified as human.

Again, spare me your condescension. If you disagree with me then fine. But don't try to paint me as lacking in intelligence enough to merely "repeat the mantras of the MSN" rather than espouse my own views. I'd respect you enough not to do so; I'd expect the same respect in return.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 13, 2007 7:30 AM

MeanieMo
Wishbone

I am not that despondent, I was using a bit of contempt for the people who can't look past another pint of warm beer.

Go to UpPompeii and you can link to my blog there, then you will know what I feel.

Wishbone, I will also point out that I have similar concerns with the BNP and did the same as you, however I do see a change in the membership which Simone Clarke has shown, this will change the party. I am worried however that the BNP will not change enough and I am still concerned about anti-Jewish and racist elements, however Islam is the issue.

Perhaps joining the BNP is a step too far at this point for many, perhaps for me, but I will be voting for them.

If I was younger and without responsibilities I would go to Israel and ask to join the IDF.

Posted by: Daffersd at January 13, 2007 7:56 AM

DaffersD-

If I misread you, then I do apologise.

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like the BNP to overhaul itself and become a true force in politics in the name of our nation. Yet I still find some of their policies and certain of its' members to be entirely distasteful.

The whole issue over Simone Clarke, I find distasteful for a different reason. She is quite entitled to her political views and has expressed that her reason for joining the BNP was the issue of immigration, which I agree with completely. If she had been vociferous over her membership, then she could only have invited comment. As it was, she was witch hunted and decried as a "Fascist Ballerina" by certain portions of the left and the MSM, which I found despicable. Having not made her affiliations public, I felt it was nobody else's business except her own.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 13, 2007 10:00 AM

Disagree with me if you will, but please spare me your condescension - wishbone

My condescension may be more of a manifestation of my frustration, so in that respect, my apologies. However the simple fact remains, and that is that if we are to do anything about this very grave threat, we will all have to roll up our sleeves and get our hands dirty, we will have to do things that we would not consider right or moral; for a conflict such as this will not spare our sensibilities. The argument that we should not lower ourselves to their level, must be music to an Islamist’s ears, for it tells him, we have not the stomach nor the resolution to stay the course in this fight. War is indeed an ugly thing, but as I am sure, when you consider the alternative - surrender to this enemy, you will concede, there is much, much worse to ponder upon. Wishbone, we are much closer than you think, for we both can see the danger, that is obvious by our presence on this website. My position vis a vie you, is born out of your dismissal of the BNP, in the same general tone and manner as the MSM. It is the same arrogant smug tone as they used to silence Enoch Powell. Please, prove me wrong. Now you may disagree with Enoch’s position, but you have to admit, the character assassination done upon that man, was both brutal and instructive, for whatever you may think about the man and his position, he raised many relevant points, which an honest interlocutor would have addressed in a forthright manner, however the gatekeepers of our morality chose to suppress that debate, and as a consequence, look where we are today.

You say that my tone smacks of condescension, my response is that your tone smacks of the prevailing orthodoxy, let us see if one or both of us are in error. As to your not making any reference to Simone Clarke, I recall reading a comment dismissing her simply as a fool, in a brief recap of the above posts, I am unable to find the comment, so I withdraw the accusation and again apologize.

Whether the BNP is the answer or no, we desperately need a proper debate on this issue, we will not find any answers by following the party line, to be sentenced to silence upon the alter of political correctness, for right now, this is the battle we need to fight, to bring about the downfall of the prevailing order, because with this shower in charge there simply will be no defense of Western civilization. They are too, entrenched, too comfortable, too supercilious, too smug, and too stupid, and above all, too uninformed to be anything other than a welcoming committee to the new caliphate. We must include those whose voices have been marginalized, only by listening to the fears and frustrations of the dispossessed, by being inclusive, can any party gain legitimacy in the eyes of the people. Yes the BNP have some unsavory characters within their ranks, but tell me, where are the shinning knights of the left, all I see are a bunch of highly opinionated, loud mouthed, bully boys, whose tolerance is limited to the party faithful, and their preferred victim classes.

Posted by: Just Another Richard at January 13, 2007 10:40 AM

wishbone, in reading your post immediately preceeding mine, I see that you have clarified your position regarding Simone Clarke, so part of my post becomes moot. See, by dialogue we gain more understanding. The trick is not to dismiss those whose first impression leaves us with raised hackles.

Posted by: Just Another Richard at January 13, 2007 10:49 AM

"Why do we, Americans, have to keep being angry for crap happening to Brits in Britain when they seem to not care about loosing their own culture and country?"

You don't have to -- we can be angry for ourselves thanks. But I do have the feeling you enjoy being angry for us.

Posted by: JFGR at January 13, 2007 10:50 AM

Just Another Richard, I see that people like Simone Clarke joining as a major plus point for the BNP, I also think that such people change the overall policy.

I read everything that I could find written by Nick Griffin, I did not see anything that I could define as racist in the clear definition most normal people would use, which is not tainted by PC wordsmithery.

As for your other point on getting our hands dirty, a number of people have tried to reconcile our individual rights against the safety of the many, there are times when we can and should make moral judgements on whether we can apply individual rights. In the case of an Islamic fundamentalist jihadist who has rejected our system then the only thing I want for such a person is a bullet in the brain. I for one am grateful for Ethiopian efficiency in this matter.

wishbone, no need to apologize, I for one have been calling for like minded people like us to start networking, glad to see you here. I would suggest that you think on this when you make your choice.

From a historical perspective there is a way back from Fascism, there is no way back from from Islamism...

Posted by: Daffersd at January 13, 2007 11:33 AM

Daffersd

I agree, that the more middle of the road, mainstream people who join the ranks of the BNP, the better their chances of being transformed into an acceptable opposition that they may then become. Though I do believe, given the current climate of political witch hunting, many, many more may be pressed into silence and inaction, for fear of not only approbation, but even continued gainful employment. The more the word gets out that people can see that the emporer has no clothes, the more emboldened people will be to follow their conscience and their instincts, and at least discuss the issues rationally, instead of leaving the debate in the hands of this self-righteous crowd of cultural Marxists and their fellow travellers. Still the actions of some morons of the left, have once again, opened the eyes of many more who have been peacefully aslumber. Lets hope the real fascists keep on openning their illiterate, loud mouths, for they do do a grand job of exposing their real philosophy.

Posted by: Just Another Richard at January 13, 2007 11:55 AM

Mixed race BNP councillor:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/sundaymercury/news/tm_objectid=17216617&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=family-secret-of-bnp-s-sharon-name_page.html

Posted by: EnglishBlondie at January 13, 2007 12:27 PM

creeping sharia
http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=2399&cid=2&sid=2

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 13, 2007 12:35 PM

Wishbone,
You stated the following regarding the BNP:

"They're an absolute political dead end and bloody lunatics to boot."

I would call this a sweeping statement which is also how the mainstream media identify them.

You then said:

"I have met many BNP supporters and some are, as you say, just normal people with a view. And some of them have been utter morons, not fit to be classified as human."

I would suggest that every political party in Britain has its unsavoury supporters, you only have to see a demonstration of the left wing UAF (Unite Against Fascism) to see an oxymoron in motion, and some of these people would be hard pressed to match the IQ of a chicken. However, the point both I and ‘JustAnotherRichard’ make is that if more intelligent, free thinking people support the BNP, the party MUST change to one that will be acceptable to a wider audience, which I suggested is already happening.

I don’t think I was patronising or questioning your intelligence. If that was how you understood my post then all I can do is apologise. But I challenge you to name another political party today, in Britain, that offers an opposition to what is happening in our land against the wishes of the majority.

Posted by: Alan(UK) at January 13, 2007 1:13 PM

I don't think that the people who support a party (or their reasons for doing so) is the most relevant issue. In fact, to me that is hardly relevant at all in deciding for whom I should vote. I think that the most relevant issue is the policies of the party.

Posted by: EnglishBlondie at January 13, 2007 2:27 PM

So, whether some BNP supporters are 'utter morons' (as wishbone says) or not is irrelevant to me. I read the manifestoes and make my decision based on that.

Posted by: EnglishBlondie at January 13, 2007 2:29 PM

wishbone, I don't know which party you vote for, but whichever it is, would you stop voting for that party if you met some 'utter morons' who also voted for it?

Posted by: EnglishBlondie at January 13, 2007 2:37 PM

"I don’t think I was patronising or questioning your intelligence."
posted by Alan UK in reference to wishbone

Well allow me to then

Wishbone I question your inteligence if you think that conservativism (with balls) is going to deliver us from this madness.

Posted by: hierophant at January 13, 2007 4:09 PM

Just Another Richard-

My thanks for your reply. My thanks also for your apologies. On that note I extend my own upon the admission that my 'hackles' were indeed up a little in my posting and, as you pointed out yourself, it can lend itself to manifesting our frustrations in our replies; So likewise, my apologies.

Regarding our recognition of the Islamic threat that our country and the West face, then I believe we can rest assured that we agree wherein the problem lies; I think our differences, as such, lie mainly in our respective views as to the methodology of any prospective solution. This is refreshing in itself, that we can agree that we're singing from the same songsheet and the debate is one of simply in which order we sing them. All too often this fact is lost as disagreement to any single point made, upon any possible solution, is presumed to be a rejection of the core of the debate. That is: That Islam is the bloody problem.

In that the cause of the problem is well established, I wouldn't be so obtuse as to maintain a static view of any possible solutions. I'm open to reason and rational argument and my opinions could change with a change of perspective or relevant events.

As to the BNP, it's those unsavoury characters that inhabit their ranks that lead me to question their credibility as a party that could lead the nation. While they do address many individual concerns like immigration, the EU, terrorism etc that would form a great part of the solution to the core problem, a good many of them go too far for my sensibilities. I well understand that protest voting is a good, legitimate shock tactic for our politicos, but so long as the BNP have within their ranks those that give credence to the stigma the party carries, then the longer they will carry it. I'd like to see this change, I truly would. Yet how could they preach to a nation that the "Tiny minority of extremists" is a much bigger threat than we know when, as sure as night follows day, that same question will bounce right back to bite them in the arse?.

In the political arena, it's "The Public" that will need to be convinced of their credentials if they're to get anywhere near winning an election. At the moment they seem little more than a club to give our government a bang over the head with. Get rid of the negative image, by eradicating those that give rise to it, and they could become the scalpel that cleanly and clinically excises the malignant elements from our society. I just don't feel they're anywhere near that stage at the moment, but in time my opinion may be changed. Of course, it's always interesting to watch in the meanwhile.

I would be hard put to disagree at all with your final paragraph, simply pointing out that to answer your question regarding the whereabouts of the "Shining Knights of the Left", I would just be preaching to the choir, as it were.

Alan(UK)-

Yes it was a sweeping statement, but it was meant as a broad expression of my view and, as Richard so aptly points out, certain points should be clarified for the sake of certainty.

To answer your point that each party has its' unsavoury supporters and your example cited: Touche.

The problem being though, that the leftists have the backing of mainstream government and therefore have the high ground so far in this battle and aren't likely to give it up easily. This is the reason I believe that the BNP would have to purge itself of that element that gives the left ammunition against it. Only then would public opinion change and carry them beyond whatever the left may throw at them, but I believe you said that already. It could just happen, but it will take a lot more than one ballerina to raise the image of the BNP and only then if the party core decide to evolve into what it needs to be.

As with Richard, I apologise to you if my reply seemed a little grouchy. If I should seem unclear in future, please don't hesitate to ask for clarification.

As for which other party offers any solution to our problem?. As far as a broader solution may be found, I feel that the EU and immigration are two major issues that would yield results. In other words, out of the EU to stop them meddling and then slam the doors shut on our borders, take stock of who's who and whether they should be here or not and ejecting the "nots". Then any internal solutions could be dealt with regardless of the screams of European multiculturalism salesmen. UKIP have policies along these lines but, as I said, there's small hope for them.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 13, 2007 5:03 PM

Heirophant-

I've only just noticed your first reply re: Conservatism.

That should have been 'conservatism'. Lower case 'c'. My error. Not, let me stress, "The Conservatives". I'd feel free to simply shoot myself if I were ever thinking of voting for "Dave". There's a good example of an experiment to clone Tony Blair gone wrong.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 13, 2007 5:11 PM

Wishbone

Thanks for a much clearer insight into your positions. This discussion highlights the problems inherent in the medium of the internet, as a means of communication, but at the same time exposes the old main stream media for its inherent flaws, that being that in a short discussion with total strangers, unknown to each other, we form suppositions based upon minimal discourse, it is only as we draw each other into conversation that we can learn our more authentic natures. This may appear a blindingly obvious observation, but it is a simple fact that it is often overlooked by many in the course of their conversations, and as a consequence, we often miss the chance encounters that could and should bring us together. The flaw that it highlights about the media, is that as a medium for the dissemination of information, it is not only subject to the whim of those who control its output, but given its extremely short time limitations, (here I am referring to the medium of TV), it is limited on one, its compression of information for delivery and two, the exasperatingly short attention span of its audience. This same paradigm applies also to the print media, although to a lesser extent. A thorough, comprehensive examination of a complex subject is not to be found within the pages of The Sun or The Daily Mirror, Or for that matter, in the likes of The Guardian, The Telegraph, or The New York Times. They all present their narratives in a dull conformity of orthodox opinion. There are of course some exceptions to this rule, but they are rare, and becoming rarer. In fact, sadly, as we have all seen over the years, these institutions have abandoned objective news, and sought there salvation in following an ideological platform; a policy, deliberately I suspect, which has tried to strip us of the freedom and ability to form our own opinions.

In fact the beauty of this site, is that Robert, Hugh and Marisol give us the benefit of their considerable knowledge and together with a flow of current information and then allow us to disseminate and discuss amongst ourselves, which highlights the benefits of this new medium…it allows for individuals to reach out across great divides and heal the divisions which this fast paced, impersonal world imposes upon us; it reduces the atomization of society and so brings our individuality into a union of coherent conversation. Does this mean that we will inevitably always agree…obviously not. It does though give us the first tools in the struggle to regain control of our own manifest destiny, for through discourse we may find more like minded souls, who have awakened to the toxic brew with which a controlling elite has infused the public dialogue, and so form our platoons with which to wage our struggles.

So now on to our differences as to the methodology of our respective solutions to the fact that Islam is the bloody problem. Yes and no: Islam is indeed a problem, but it is only one half of the problem; the one which circumstance presents as our first problem is our own ruling elite, for until they are dealt with, there is no way we can hope to make headway against the threat of Islam. The folly of the multicultural experiment is manifest in Islam’s aggressive intransigent aspirations. Until this utopian fantasy is laid to rest, we are not going anywhere. No, this does not mean that anyone with less than a whiter shade of pale complexion should be placed on the first boat out, it does however mean, that those who are not committed to a cohesive plurality, should not be welcome, and are certainly not entitled to any largesse extracted from the long suffering tax payers of the developed Western World. Yes, I do understand your concerns as to some of the uncouth elements that is the baggage of the BNP, but again, I repeat, how much is from the history of the BNP, and how much is from current events. From my perspective, it is the lack of firm conviction within the old conservative movement, that precludes them from serious consideration. They simple are awash in confusion as to just what principles they stand for, they have become victims of the dominant Post Modern narrative. A narrative which was formulated, I suspect, for just such a purpose, to sow the seeds of confusion and doubt.

I well understand that protest voting is a good, legitimate shock tactic for our politicos, but so long as the BNP have within their ranks those that give credence to the stigma the party carries, then the longer they will carry it. I'd like to see this change, I truly would. Yet how could they preach to a nation that the "Tiny minority of extremists" is a much bigger threat than we know when, as sure as night follows day, that same question will bounce right back to bite them in the arse.- wishbone

I concede that the stigma that the party carries from its past is a baggage that will need to be dealt with, though here I might add, that in the coming conflict we will have need of those