Greg

Normally, I'm more agnostic than anything else, but nothing has inspired me to learn more about my religion than this threat of Islam one day monopolizing religion.

Trifkovic is correct. Problem is that it was never politically incorrect or hateful or Sovietophobic to be anti-Communist. However, being hostile to Islam is being Islamophobic, accompanied by a variety of other multicultural PC thought crimes.

We've had a series of leaders from McCarthy to Reagan who never had any doubts about the evil that is Communism. However, we seem to have no-one with few doubts about the evil that's Islam, despite 9/11, 3/11, 7/11, 7/7, Bali, Moscow, Beslan, et al. While anti-Communists (at least in the GOP) were a dime a dozen, finding anti-Muslims is like extracting tritium from water.

I have a theory that the only ones who can confront Islam head on and beat it is the Left, once they recognize and start resenting the retrograde tendencies within Islam - misogyny, homophobia, animal cruelty, intolerance et al, since the Right everywhere simply lacks the spine to confront them head on without bothering about how they are going to be perceived. However, I generally wonder whether that's ever going to happen.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 11, 2007 5:04 AM

From the article above:

"“Of course, 9/11 has caused a lot of problems for Muslims, especially because of a negative media hype."

Cause, yeah, flying planes into buildings and killing 3,000 completely innocent people while screaming 'Allahuuuuu Akbar!!!' does tend to look a little negative and all, huh?

And yeah, how bout all those recent converts to islam eh? Like Michael Jackson. *snort*

Now he's gone and found himself a 'religion' where thighing babies and kissing little boys is actually ALLOWED!!!

Posted by: JenBee at March 11, 2007 5:45 AM

These people are absolutely tone deaf. It's what comes from talking only to others who think exactly like you do, day in, day out. He needn't fret about '...presenting Islam to the West in a convincing manner.' It's been presented convincingly many times over the centuries. In fact, please stop with the presenting; we're convinced already.

Posted by: Dane at March 11, 2007 6:05 AM

Unfortunately, unlike in Stalinist Russia, we will all not one day wake up to find that Islam has died during our sleep. The world needs a real Jewish doctor's plot to be sure allah dies tonight. Perhaps Christians, Buddhists, animists and atheists can unite. Infidels of the world unite. Bring back God. Down with allah! We need a secret speech to candidly and openly criticize the religion of Islam. Let's call for a 20th Party Congress to denounce the cult of personality of Mohammed and his murderous religion.

Posted by: David England at March 11, 2007 8:03 AM

The only people I ever hear saying Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion are Muslims. I've never heard anyone else say that nor have I ever seen any proof of Islams growth. Since lying is accepatable in Islam I see no reason to believe Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion, just because a Muslims says so.While its true that forced conversions and death threats to those who want to leave Islam have helped Islam to retain some adherents. The true and ugly face of Islam is being revealed to the world. I doubt there will be many new converts once the truth is known.

Posted by: Roxane at March 11, 2007 9:20 AM

I suspect that one growing group in the world consists of the intelligent apostates from Islam. They may not have declared themselves, but they must, and they must ensure that the break is complete, so that their own progeny do not "consider themselves Muslims" and at some point "revert" to the real thing. They consist of a self-selected group: the most morally and intellectually aware people born, through no fault of their own, into Islam.

These defectors from the Army of Islam are not the mirror-image but rather the complete opposite of the kind of confused and vulnerable people, the psychically (John Walker Lindh, David Hicks, Adam Gadahn may stand for them all) and economically marginal (Richard Reid, Jose Padilla, Omar Brooks), the former often recruited one by one, the latter in such places with captive populations who can be reached by well-financed campaigns of Da'wa, in prisons (or even in the army).

Unfortunately the numbers of those who are so morally and intellectually aware are kept down by the climate of fear and by the infliction of punishment, within Dar al-Islam but not limited to Dar al-Islam, even by death, of those who declare their apostasy openly. Their situation is far worse than that of dissidents in Moscow in the 1970s and 1980s -- it is more like that of someone being a dissident in 1948, anywhere in the Soviet Union.

And even more unfortunately, among those I have descrbied as the "economically marginal," few know a thing about Islam, which is presented to them as if it were a vehicle for social justice, the only one in town now that Marxism is presumably dead. That this is nonsense can be seen by looking at how wealth is acquired in almost all Muslim lands -- by seizing political power and then part of the nation's wealth, save in the handful of countries, such as Turkey and Tunisia, where Islam has been constrained.

And among the "psychically marginal," there are those who include some immigrants, eager for the certainties of some faith, any faith (these need not be immigrants from poor countries), or those who, falling for some attractive Muslim, decide that the certainties of Islam are just the ticket (I've known more than one impoverished Russian immmigrant who followed this path, and is how mindlessly happy in her hijabbed existence). Still others long for that Complete Regulation of Life and Total Explanation of the Universe that Islam offers. They don't want to think for themselves. They don't know how. Or it scares them. Or its all too complicated.

Besides, how wonderful to rely on the simple notion that whatever is Halal is Halal, whatever is Haram is Haram. And that is it. And if you have a question, you ask a Muslim cleric for his advice, and then you unquestioningly follow it.

Why?

Because Allah Ta'allah. And Allah Knows Best.

Posted by: Hugh at March 11, 2007 9:43 AM

Serge Trifkovic has pointed out a telling analogy here: it was exactly during Stalin's show trials that the Western intelligentsia was most outspokenly pro-Communist. Some people are drawn to the amoral exercise of raw power rather than repulsed. It is the basic appeal of fascism and one of Islam's greatest strengths. 

Is that ever true! Plus these days we have the adulation of the "noble savage" and his "authenticity". Today the default religion for this savage is Islam. From our incarcerated lumpen to the dispossessed of the third world

And our naive liberals awestruck by them. Partly due to their atheist tendencies. "Fear of G-D is the beginning of wisdom". I take that to heart plus from time to time G-D sent Israel chastisement and enemies. When a people gets fat and happy and complacent - This is when an enemy comes along (sent by G-D) to fight them. To take their women and force them to breed more of their own. This is how tribal warfare works. This how our Indians fought. This is how your tribe increases. Islam knows this. Only Muslim men are allowed to marry infidels because this brings a new womb into the Jihad of out breeding the infidels

Plus Islam likes war for lebensraum for its exploding populations. Booty (the spoils of war) is an inventive too, ever since Muhammad used it. Dying in armed Jihad also brings the Muslim to paradise with no judgment, no strings attached. So they believe

Posted by: dennisw at March 11, 2007 9:56 AM

Why do muslims need to shout it out so loudly ?
Could it be that they are scared of lots more of
this ? >>>>>

http://www.spcm.org/Journal/spip.php?article7247

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at March 11, 2007 12:08 PM

It doesn’t bother me that Islam is taking on Western converts. Awareness of the problem is growing and the end game is confrontation and deportation. Adding a few hundred more flights to relocate some of our best and brightest is fine by me. They’ll love Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: pez at March 11, 2007 12:40 PM

Why the Western Left has jumped into bed with Islamism, we've discussed here many times. But the Western Right has a problem too. The base of the right-wing in America are religious fundamentalists, mostly Christian evangelicals but a surprising number of Orthodox Jews as well. To many of them, belief in God--any belief in any God--is superior to atheism (which they utterly despise) or to secular humanism (which they utterly despise). So former Muslims who have renounced religion and become agnostics or atheists don't get much support from the Judeo-Christian right.

On our sister blog, Little Green Footballs, there used to be considerable support for Hirsi Ali's plight. But when posters found out that Hirsi Ali is a feminist and atheist and has some negative things to say about Christianity too, many of them walked away. There is considerable support for the plight of Muslim women in Third World countries--but only as long as those Muslim women don't also start demanding abortion rights too.

In my discussions with American conservatives, I'm finding that they are having a hard time getting their priorities in order. Yes, they want to see Islamist terrorism defeated. But they also have a list of social issues that they seem to care about even more. As one of them put it, "Even if we defeat terrorism, American families will be destroyed by same-sex marriage anyway."

Posted by: Steven L. at March 11, 2007 1:19 PM

Lone voices in the wilderness. But it could be a beginning:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/11/christian-democrat-leader-fred-nile-calls-for-a-halt-to-muslim-immigration/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 11, 2007 1:21 PM

It's the same as the attraction of Communism and Nazism in the 30s-60s: people love dictators and thugs. Eventually, and hopefully before it is not too late, people will realize what's at stake. We can ***easily*** defeat them. Moslems do not have the brains of the Nazis or Communists. They are largely stupid thugs and nothing more. Perhaps it's because we are so much stronger that it is difficult to perceive the threat Islam poses to the free world.

Of course, each time you turn around the number of Moslems just zooms up and up.

I wonder, however, how accurate the reports of conversions away from this pile of excrement are.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at March 11, 2007 2:19 PM

Muslims use Christian Arabs and anyone else with a "Muslim" name to pad their numbers in the West. There is a large number of Iranian Jews in Southern California but these are probably included in the Muslim "statistics" too. As are the large number of Iranian converts to evangelical Christianity in the US and Europe.

Posted by: Suzan at March 11, 2007 2:49 PM

The truth is that the global south areas of Africa, Asia, and Latin America is seeing rapid growth in new Christian believers. The truth is that the greatest growth is being seen in the Christian faith. No Muslim will admit this. For every Muslim baby born, since it takes 9 months, there are many more people that come to faith in Christ. So the truth is that the REAL fastest growing faith is the Christian faith.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 11, 2007 3:15 PM

The only people I ever hear saying Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion are Muslims. I've never heard anyone else say that nor have I ever seen any proof of Islams growth. Since lying is accepatable in Islam I see no reason to believe Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion, just because a Muslims says so.

Posted by: Roxane at March 11, 2007 09:20 AM

Islam does not believe in inner or spiritual growth (although they keep lying about Jihad, when one of their barbarians in bloody Jihad, that Jihad is about "internal-struggle"), By their own admission: http://www.republicanandproud.com/warning.htm Islam's ideology and goals are Anything but: http://islam-watch.org/CommunityServer/forums/thread/67.aspx
The goal of converting infidels to Islam by force is the strategy of spreading Islam.

Since force should have no place in spreading religion and since Islam coerces, muslim claims have no merit. It is that simple.

Posted by: Alert at March 11, 2007 5:11 PM

Alladinsane: Today in church (it's Sunday) we heard a report from a missionary who has been serving in Bosna-Hercegovina. Ive heard other people involved in Christian missionary work express that while they were pleased and grateful for the unprecedented response to the Gospel among Muslims in recent years, they were also taken by surprise.

I've long suspected that one result of Muslim immigration to the West--if Western Christians pray, wait on God, and love--is that far from Islamizing the West, the West will just be a bit of "swarthying" Christianity in the West.

Posted by: Kepha at March 11, 2007 8:28 PM

Sure its the fastest growing religion, they out-breed everyone else and if you leave the cult you get a death threat hanging over your head for the rest of your life! I bet they have great retainment numbers!

Posted by: kelisw at March 11, 2007 8:41 PM

I'm sure all those forced conversions happening all over the world are helping allot too!

Posted by: kelisw at March 11, 2007 8:42 PM

From the article posted by aladdinsane57:
“This man knows all the verses of the Qur’an by heart,” he added. “After he began watching, doubt began in his heart about the Islamic faith.” The man spent nine months in prison after he questioned the violence of radical Islam. Following his release from prison, he faced numerous death threats and escaped the country. Several other religious leaders may follow suit. “He knows four other high-ranking imams that are in the same condition and want to leave Iran,” Safa said."

Reading this makes me think that we maybe need to hone in more specifically on just a few issues. In terms of getting Muslims themselves to turn away from Islam, we need to focus on the fact that Islam is violent and that that violence comes from Mushammad and that there are no excuses for that violence in terms of self-defense or oppression and so on. Muslims have so many psychological devices for convincing themselves that Muslims were so persecuted that Muhammad's actions were all justified. Plus, as we've all seen here so many times from the Muslim apologists who come on here, many of them are completely ignorant of their own history. How many times have they stated that Islam was not spread by the sword? As crazy as this sounds to us - clearly many of them believe it!

But as this article appears to demonstrate, even high ranking Iranian clerics are capable of questioning and having doubts about Islam based on coming to terms honestly with its history of violence (presumably in this case, in terms of being exposed to the alternative message of Christianity).

That's from the Muslim side. The flip side we need to focus on is the fundamental appeal of Islam for the converts - and as Hugh has pointed out so many times, the basic appeal there (besides those seeking the Total Explanation of the Universe) - is the fallacy of "social justice" that Islam presumably represents - because this fallacy has appeal for the more educated. That needs to be explored and hammered relentlessly so as to pre-empt the da'wa message before it has a chance to take root.

A previous thread on JW was devoted to practical suggestions to defeating islam non-violently and it covered many excellent points. But we have a real problem on our hands given the large number of Muslims who are already born here and rapidly reproducing. Since as we all know Islam is an ideology and not a race, this needn't be a problem in the long run provided we could convince Muslims that their faith is false and at the same time, prevent native conversions to Islam.

So the question is - what are the key aspects of Islam that have factually convinced Muslims themselves that their faith is false? Has there been some sort of survey among apostates that could shed light here and provide us with the most essential tools for convincing more Muslims of that fact? Is it the violence (as the article that aladdin linked to appears to suggest)? Is it nonsense in the Koran? What? How can we undertake a more systematic approach to understanding what convinces Muslims themselves to turn away from Islam so that we can apply that information more effectively in fighting the ideological war on our own turf among those who are already here, living in our communities?

Posted by: Caroline at March 11, 2007 10:13 PM

Caroline
Very good post!

The fraud that is Islam all begins with the violent fraud who is the centerpiece of this fraud. Islam rises or falls on the life and actions of Muhammad

Posted by: dennisw at March 12, 2007 3:35 AM

Michael Jackson is being treat better outside of America than inside of America. First than honest fair DA would never have accue him of than crime with no proof or evident to back it up. All of the 300 eye wittness the DA called said they saw Micharl Jackson never have sex with than boy. The boy who accrue him change his story too many time and have than history of prejury under oak. That why the jury
return with the not guiely verdict in the trail There is evident that the DA person has than blind hatered toward Michael Jackson that cloudly his thinking and reasonly on this matter.

Posted by: DefenderofIslam at March 12, 2007 4:11 AM

Caroline,

Excellent post, the key to this has always been making sure that the religion of Islam can be exposed for what it really is.

I have seen a number of reports like the one detailed above of Muslims leaving Islam, I hope that it is true and I would like to see real proof, but if this is the case then we have a chance to minimise the violence when Islam makes its violent attempt to take control...

Some of these extremists have been very good at turning people away from Islam, but I think that we need to get a bit more assertive with Islam at some point, but we need to be sure that the rump of the Muslim population is turning its back on it.

It we information like this that gave me hope along with the West starting to re-assert itself in a calm measured way.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 12, 2007 6:39 AM

DefenderofIslam,

As much as the Micheal Jackson trial was a circus, at least one thing is clear: in the USA, it takes seriously the best interest and protection of children to heart.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 12, 2007 7:16 AM

Islam Liberates Women:

No S#*t:http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/12/islam-liberates-women/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 12, 2007 7:55 AM

What is amusing about the propaganda about Islam's supposed growth is that it is really about the generally high birth rate in Muslim countries and the gross exagerations that also go on when the PA or the government of Afghanistan issue "census" reports.

What is also not reported or acknowledged by the likes of Ibrahim Malabari, is that we don't know how many immigrants from Muslim have come to the west to escape the Ibrahim Malabaris of the world. There is a movement afoot in Germany of ex-pats from Turkey and Iran, many of them women,who do not want to be automaticall classified as "Muslim" as is the practice in Germany,and are stating that they are not represented in any way by the usual Muslim community organizations.

I may be very premature in saying this, but perhaps we're about to see a sea change and organizations like the Canadian Islamic Conference will be seen as nothing more than a front group for Wahhabism with a tiny membership of shills.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at March 12, 2007 8:16 AM

"Michael Jackson is being treat better outside of America than inside of America."

...and America is better off without him....Now, if we can convince the Muslims in America they would be treated better if they would move to Iran, Egypt, Syria, Qatar, Or Yeman...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 12, 2007 10:13 AM

Dear Big Cat Girl most DA in America think the LA DA
is very incompence he lost all of his big media trails, due for not have evidents to support bring it to trail. In NY state when I live there many year
ago than Judge have the autherithy to dismiss than case before or jurning trail for a lack of evidence and it is inpossible to reopen that case againt. I donot know it they change this good practice in NY State, it force DA to be very careful in charge people with than crime and to follow poper legal framework of seeimg it any evidence prove that a suspect didnot do the crime. All of that DA showcase trail cost the taxpayer more than 100 million dollar
in cost with nothing to show for the cost.

Posted by: DefenderofIslam at March 13, 2007 3:14 AM