Its frightening to see that britain the land of democracy is fast becoming a police state where even comedy and satire are in the sights of the thought police - thats why I left the place - when will the british wake up and say enough is enough.
This story beggars belief - the english middle class seem to have evolved into a bunch of pathetic cowards and appeasers - but it cant last - the BNP is making spectacular advances and if it can get my vote - ex left wing guardian reader - it may have a real chance of power in the next few years - thats all right with me - if we have to make a pact with the devil - then so be it!

Posted by: johnmac at March 18, 2007 6:19 AM

“Its frightening to see that britain the land of democracy is fast becoming a police state where even comedy and satire are in the sights of the thought police - thats why I left the place - when will the british wake up and say enough is enough.”

They are saying it – haven’t you been reading DW/JW lately?

”This story beggars belief - the english middle class seem to have evolved into a bunch of pathetic cowards and appeasers - but it cant last - the BNP is making spectacular advances and if it can get my vote - ex left wing guardian reader - it may have a real chance of power in the next few years - thats all right with me - if we have to make a pact with the devil - then so be it!”

Out of the frying-pan into the fire!

Posted by: JFGR at March 18, 2007 8:13 AM

Johnmac:

" ... the BNP is making spectacular advances and if it can get my vote - ex left wing guardian reader - it may have a real chance of power in the next few years - thats all right with me - if we have to make a pact with the devil - then so be it! "

Johnmac, are you sure you're not me? Could you also add ' ... and BBC believer. '?

Me? Married a near quarter-century to a South Asian woman, and with mixed-race offspring.

JFGR: I'll take my - and my daughter's - chances with the fire. I will NOT see her or any other of my women-folk subjected to Islam. Ever.

Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at March 18, 2007 8:28 AM

"JFGR: I'll take my - and my daughter's - chances with the fire"

Well, if you're confident about opposing one variety of fascism with another one ...

Posted by: JFGR at March 18, 2007 8:33 AM

Stop your bickering people. Don't you see in 50 years that there will be nobody left to bicker? God liberals make me sick!

Posted by: lonewolf at March 18, 2007 8:53 AM

Last word from me:

History has shown that one of them can be removed within a generation or two, the other can't. And the bloodshed inflicted by the one that can't be removed is far in excess of the bloodshed inflicted by the one that can.

And in the case of the BNP in particular, it has yet to be demonstrated that it is indeed one of these two evils. Plenty of people assert it, but that's all they ever do: assert. I've yet to see evidence.

Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at March 18, 2007 9:03 AM

give me the BNP any day - compared to the evil that is Islam it is positively saintly - and all of you who think different - well just who else is standing up for white indigenous culture - any other party - no no-one - so f** your liberall judgement - the time for pising about is over - I will take western fascism any day rather than eastern religeous fascism !!

Posted by: johnmac at March 18, 2007 9:19 AM

Cripes. They should be prosecuted for impenetrable undergraduate 'humour', if for nothing else.

Universities would be wonderful places, absolute idylls, if it weren't for all the bloody students.

Posted by: Dane at March 18, 2007 9:55 AM

"Freedom go to Hell"

It that the picture the University took seriously?

Posted by: FreeSpeech at March 18, 2007 11:02 AM

Notice the criticism of early Christian scriptures in the last portion. I wonder if D'Souza advocates Caimbridge to censor the paper so as not to put off traditional christians we need to fight Christianists.

Where is the outrage?

Posted by: Jimmy the Dhimmi at March 18, 2007 11:35 AM

Well it is to small to see what the hubbub is about, That BNP is gaining support proves the government has failed ot do the right thing for way to long.

At this point what is worse than nazis taking over is that the USA will side with Islam to defeat them this time.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at March 18, 2007 12:18 PM

So the British Police are arresting people for publishing the Danish cartoons.
Are they going to arrest people for watching Monty Python videos?

Posted by: Odyessus at March 18, 2007 12:25 PM

The bomb head Muhammad is still funny after all this time; the rest of it is just puerile; not worthy of any reaction I should have thought.

Bomb head Muhammad smiley

Q:-(

He He

Gets me every time.

Posted by: LivingVictory at March 18, 2007 2:00 PM

Here here, Sir Henry Morgan! I am a native Brit with mixed-race offspring too. My husband is Jamaican and is still wary of the BNP. Maybe he has just cause? He thinks it best to work within established parties. He's always right, but I think he will eventually see the light and make the right decision for me and the kids.

Posted by: DSinDLand at March 18, 2007 4:32 PM

"History has shown that one of them [German and Italian fascism, presumably] can be removed within a generation or two."

History also shows that it was a damned near thing that we aren't now living in the Tausendjaehriges Reich.

(Sorry to have to keep up this "liberal bickering". I can’t help agreeing with Hugh: “How about dividing the world, not between so-called "liberals" (which liberals? John Stuart Mill or Jimmy Carter?) and so-called "conservatives" (which conservatives? Edmund Burke, or Pat Buchanan?), but between the intelligent, and the un-intelligent?” I'd have thought, too, that one of the main things we object to in Islam is its totalitarianism.)

Posted by: JFGR at March 18, 2007 4:50 PM

I dont trust the BNP. Sorry, I just dont. A little too exclusive for my varied tastes.

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 5:03 PM

JFGR

You do make a man think, and from your questions I can see you saw into my thoughts.

Yes, a damned close run thing, and so it is getting to be with Islam.

Have you a risk-free option?

Would you trust Blair? Brown? Cameron? Campbell? Any of their parties? They and their media and academic supporters, and ways of thinking, are what got us into this mess. And it is a mess.

Frankly, I would risk anything in preference to Islam - though my preferred option would be something of a cross between Mill and Burke with a little Tom Paine thrown in. Unfortunately, that option isn't available. Convince me we don't need something a little harder than that.

Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at March 18, 2007 5:43 PM

Good point DS. I'm not married yet but I think you should trust your husband on this one. Britain is a wonderful country. I hate to see it in such disrepair. Maybe the next elections will bring about positive changes for all the beautiful people there. Well, we can hope can't we ?

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 5:55 PM

Again, Robert, you are right on the money! You know it and I know it: Christianity is the only religion it is permissible to slam with complete impunity. As a Christian, I am more than a little fed up with this sorry state of affairs.

Thank you, sir, for giving voice to our side. A side that gets little to no respect from anyone. We do appreciate it. We're out here and you are in our prayers.

Posted by: Elizabeth Garrison at March 18, 2007 6:02 PM

Sir Henry,

“Have you a risk-free option?”

No, I don’t, unfortunately. (Have any of us?) But I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for the BNP, which is, let’s face it, a fascist party, though they’re doing their best to make themselves seem respectable. Voting for the BNP would be like an anti-Bolshevik voting for Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists in 1938, when Churchill was just around the corner – and who would have thought that in 1938? (But, before you say it, I don’t see a Churchill in Dave Cameron’s touchy-feely Tory Party, either. Let's hope the Tories rebel against pseudo-New-Labourism and find a real Tory fast -- small chance, I know, on recent form.)

"Would you trust Blair? Brown? Cameron? Campbell? Any of their parties? They and their media and academic supporters, and ways of thinking, are what got us into this mess. And it is a mess."

Agreed.

"Frankly, I would risk anything in preference to Islam - though my preferred option would be something of a cross between Mill and Burke with a little Tom Paine thrown in. Unfortunately, that option isn't available. Convince me we don't need something a little harder than that."

Agreed about Mill, Burke and co. But Nick Griffin??? A Mosley with a nice suit and a smiling face (and a knife under the cloak, as Chaucer might say). Apart from the moral issues, the trouble with fascists/communists is that you (Von Papen, Hindenburg/Kerensky) think you're controlling them and they (Hitler, Lenin) end up by controlling you.

Posted by: JFGR at March 18, 2007 8:10 PM

Support the BNP with your finances, regardless where you are from. Here is the link...
http://www.bnp.org.uk/shopping/donations.htm

Posted by: The Resistance at March 18, 2007 8:37 PM

Policies designed to rid the West of Muslims don't necessarily have to take a fascist direction. I certainly don't want to see free markets, for example, eradicated to diminish the threat of jihad.

That said, as some have mentioned, it's worth almost anything to avoid having Islam imposed on our societies.

Posted by: venividivici at March 18, 2007 8:42 PM

Hook and JFGR:

Continue on your raft floating the down the river of British History and as the fury of the Islamic waves swarm your vessel banging it back and forth continue with your dream that the traditional British politocos will provide the levies that will subside the crashing waves...but don't look ahead at waterfall..

Be thankful you have a BNP or continue trusting the bozos that got you in the mess you're in.

From your friend in the US.
-Briars

Posted by: Briars at March 18, 2007 9:10 PM

Dianna West on Belgium's Vlaams Belang party

Without attracting much attention, representatives of the Belgian political party Vlaams Belang recently visited Washington, D.C. Frank Vanhecke and Filip Dewinter hoped to meet members of Congress; but Congress was in recess. They hoped to engender some understanding of their program to reverse the Islamization of Belgium; but the media were strip-mining the tinsel life and tawdry times of Anna Nicole Smith.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20070315-082220-8641r.htm

-------------------------------------

As there is no chance of a reformation of Islam, there is hardly any doubt that Muslim immigration has to be stopped and then reversed if Europe and Britain are to remain civilised regions. The question only remains - how?.

In Belgium Vlaams Belang party is the largest and yet it ie being prosecuted under race hate laws as it proclaims that Islam is incompatible with European values.

This is going to get interesting if the courts declare that a significant part of the Belgian electorate is "illegal".

Posted by: DP111 at March 18, 2007 9:16 PM

Well, I have to say that I hope that the BNP does well in Britain. I also hope they will open themselves for all non-mofoes who believe in British Culture and the Rule of Law over there.

We simply can't wait any longer for the "perfect solution" to come along!

If the British vote BNP then we may have a chance to move those rubber-kneed Germans a bit to the 'right' as well. And the French simply MUST be encouraged to stand up for themselves.

PS. The German book author Dr. Udo Ulfkotte who recently published "The war in our Cities" has formally announced that he will found a political party whose main purpose will be dealing with the effects of islam on German and European Society and to implement pracftical solutions to the problem.

He states that a number of reps from the formwerly conservative CDU are poised to switch parties after this party has been established.

So far they haven't come up with a very catchy name though. Personally I don't think "Conservative-Environmental Party" will do the job! LOL

I'd call it the Party of Practical Reason.

After all Germans take pride in Reason and islam takes pride in irrationality, ie. belief.

By virtue of the name this party would signal where it stands - without coming across unnecessarily nationalistic.

We simply can't go there in Germany like the BNP are doing in Britain. But nonetheless I wish the BNP all the Best.

For better or worse - they are the ONLY Dog in the Fight as of now!!!

Go British BullDogs!!!

And I hope one day soon American and German Eagles will support you.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at March 18, 2007 9:30 PM

One of the reasons I tend to avoid posting on British anti-jihad sites is that you can never be sure they are not BNP supporters. The idea of being tarred with the same brush as them is no different from Robert taking issue at being compared to a klansman or anti-semite. The BNP showed its true colours when it switched its sights from the Islamicization issue to the influx of Poles and other East Europeans since EU augmentation. I want nothing to do with an outfit that acts purely out of xenophobia and is led by an anti-semite and holocaust denier. Our task is to get mainstream conservative and social democratic politicians to snap out of their moonstruck blindness to the negative political and social impact of an Islamic presence in this country, as well as the long term ambitions of many of the members of that community.

Posted by: wallyUK at March 18, 2007 10:06 PM

@wallyUK

I thought they [BNP] were undergoing a change in attitude re. Poles and Eastern Europeans.

Damn, they MUST not throw out the baby with the bathwater!!

The Poles are a great defense against islamofascism. I'd be happy if more of them came to Germany.

Let's remind those friendly BNP folk that Jan Sobieski was a Pole.

We have to STAND as ONE in Europe.

VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!!!

Posted by: Allahfanculo at March 18, 2007 10:24 PM

WallyUK:

Agreed on the Eastern European immigration, do not agree that BNP has an anti-semetic agenda and is led by a halocaust denier. Please supply the info on this.

I live in the US, a descendent of immigrants who came to America for a new life and to become Americans. They participated in a lawful process, had the desire to learn the language and to integrate their children into being good, American citizens.

Now we have a flood of immigrants who want to escape the hellhole that they were born into but have no desire to become an American, to participate in a lawful entry into the country, have no intention to learn the language (and are assisted by liberals who construct a bi-lingual system in schools and commerce that makes it easer to not or never integrate into the society), who take jobs from businesses who wish to keep inhuman labor practices in order to produce a lavish profit for their executives. The bigger crisis is that the illegals who have stayed here have created a second generation that has further alienated themselves from American ideals and have instead imitated the gangsters and crooks of our society: living the hollywood lifestyle but not willing to work for it. Our prisons are full of them, our schools are infested with them so kids who want to learn cannot and where citizens cannot walk the streets or reside in their homes without the chance of these mindless thugs harming them.

Perhaps that is where the BNP is coming from regarding the EU strongarming them into letting anyone into the country. I live in a country where our citizens came from all countries and cultures to pledge their alliegance to the American ideals of our forefathers. So many have died to defend that ideal of freedom. Call me selfish, but escaping poverty and tyranny are not the only reasons to come to America. You must come with the intent to become an active, constructive force for our future and not a parasite that sucks its lifeblood and breeds malcontents whose only purpose is to destroy its civility with barbarism. I think that is where the BNP is coming from.

WallUK, the extreme danger that your nation is in must be met with just as an extreme counter acting political force. Wishy washy middle of the road politics are not going to do it and I do not want to see you and your children under Sharia. The BNP are made up of working class Brits like yourself, I assume, and not some Fascist aliens who were planted on your island. The party is part of Britains democratic system. It would seem you would have a better chance to change their direction since their victory would be a result of a majority of British citizens rather than the Islamic imposition that gains its stregnth from bullying, subversion and breeding.

Your friend in the US.
-Briars

Posted by: Briars at March 18, 2007 10:58 PM

It must be against the law in Great Britain to call Muhammad a violent pedophile. This perfect man and timeless example for all mankind was a merciless warlord and married six year old Aisha. I'll bet when Muslims talk amongst themselves they gloat over Muhammad's conquests and admire his prowess what with all his wives and his last one Aisha.

But Muslims go crazy when infidels discuss and ridicule this behavior

Posted by: dennisw at March 19, 2007 4:21 AM

“The BNP are made up of working class Brits like yourself, I assume, and not some Fascist aliens who were planted on your island. The party is part of Britains democratic system.”

You could have said the same of the Nazis before 1933. The point is that once fascists are in power, they do away with a democratic system.

“Continue on your raft floating the down the river of British History and as the fury of the Islamic waves swarm your vessel banging it back and forth continue with your dream that the traditional British politocos will provide the levies that will subside the crashing waves...but don't look ahead at waterfall..”

Now would you be prepared to say the same about American history, if a fascist party flourished there? Do I smell anti-British prejudice here?
And America was a refuge from European fascism, as was England. America owes a lot to the "river of British History", despite your sneers.

Posted by: JFGR at March 19, 2007 8:16 AM

wallyUK:

Our task is to get mainstream conservative and social democratic politicians to snap out of their moonstruck blindness to the negative political and social impact of an Islamic presence in this country.

It ain't going to happen. The mainstream parties don't want to alienate Muslim voters. And, as the Muslim birth rate is higher than that of the indigenous population, the proportion of Muslim voters will increase in the coming years.

As the Muslim population grows, the mainstream parties will be falling over themselves to attract their votes by proposing increasingly pro-Islamic (i.e. anti-British) policies.

We have to act now before it is too late, and the BNP is the only party prepared to do so.

Posted by: watling at March 19, 2007 9:16 AM

We do not need a party determined to kick out ethnic minorities.
What do we need?
Well consider this.
Robert Spencer has said that he is working on a piece of draft legislation to make it illegal to propose overthrowing the American Constitution and replacing it with a Sharia/ theocratic state.
Britain needs something like this.
Since we don’t have a written constitution framing this approach is more problematic.
We do have a sort of accumulative British Constitution – the Magna Carta, Bill of rights, equality of minorities, the right to practice religion according to individual conscience etc, etc….
That is what we have to defend.

These freedoms are unlikely to survive if an Islamic Government came to power.
And a party which comes to power through elections, if it does not respect the rights of it’s minorities, cannot be said to be democratic.
Perhaps Parliament should pass a law reclassifying Islam as a political system, not a religion, and then ban it.

All this needs to be done sooner rather than later because the Islamic presence is growing all the time.

As Robert Spencer never tires of pointing out, all the main schools of Islamic jurisprudence have never accepted the idea of a separation of religious and political powers. They believe that Islam has the right, indeed the duty, to politically dominate every country in the world.

Defenders of “Moderate Islam” need to be confronted with this truth and asked to explain how they propose to create an Islam which is purely a religious faith because at present, it does not exist.

Posted by: Odyessus at March 19, 2007 10:01 AM

To JFGR you have asserted on several occasions that the BNP is akin to some form of fascist party

Well, if you're confident about opposing one variety of fascism with another one ...
Posted by: JFGR [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 18, 2007 08:33 AM

Now would you be prepared to say the same about American history, if a fascist party flourished there?
Posted by: JFGR [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 19, 2007 08:16 AM

Yet at the begining of this thread Sir Henry Morgan asked you to provide evidence to back up your accusation.

And in the case of the BNP in particular, it has yet to be demonstrated that it is indeed one of these two evils. Plenty of people assert it, but that's all they ever do: assert. I've yet to see evidence.

Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 18, 2007 09:03 AM

I ask you the same thing, where is your evidence that the BNP is a fascist party. Is it the case that any form of nationalism or patriotism in your mind is fascist in nature. If this is the case you may as well just start praying towards Mecca now.

The debate about the BNP has been a long running one on JW. None of its detractors have yet to supply any credible evidence that the party is what you say it is, and not a party who puts the welfare of the British Isles and its long history and native peoples first, before multiculti, antiwest groupthink.

The simple fact of the matter is that we are in a war, and the time for half measures is over, I myself have always advocated that it doesnt need the BNP in power to effect change just enough people need to protest vote for them to make the mainstream parties sit up and take notice. Thus the BNP are a useful weapon in the fight against the Dawa and jihad and as such should be used with that in mind.

Posted by: km at March 19, 2007 10:26 AM

“where is your evidence that the BNP is a fascist party?”

Just a few snippets on their leader from the Wikipedia article about him:

“Griffin has made statements that deny the existence of the Holocaust and has in the past made anti-Semitic remarks.
In issue 12 of the BNP publication The Rune (see above) he called the Holocaust "the Holohoax" and criticized the Holocaust denier David Irving for admitting in an interview that up to four million Jews might have died in the Holocaust. Griffin wrote: "True Revisionists will not be fooled by this new twist to the sorry tale of the Hoax of the Twentieth Century." [4][5][6] Griffin was eventually prosecuted for his articles in The Rune (see below).
In 1997 he told an undercover journalist that he had updated Richard Verrall's Holocaust denial book Did Six Million Really Die?. He also described his former MP, Alex Carlile, QC, who had reported The Rune to the police, as "this bloody Jew... whose only claim is that his grandparents died in the Holocaust."[5]
In the same year he wrote a pamphlet, "Who Are The Mindbenders", which alleged that a cabal of Jews controlled the British media, "providing us with an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash." [7]
In his defence during his 1998 prosecution (see below), Griffin said: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat ... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."[8]
His more recent public stance in this area is illustrated by the section "It's all a Zionist scam" in his 2005 article "Dealing with Peak Oil Criticisms"”

Nice fellow, eh?

Posted by: JFGR at March 19, 2007 11:32 AM

JFGR:

Very few here put any credence into info from Wikipedia, you should see what they have written about Robert Spencer.

No one denies that the BNP has a dubious past, but the point here is that the party has reformed and is the only party within the UK who has actually stood up and said out loud that there is an Islamic takeover occuring.

In regards to the accusations of anti-semitism with in the party I point you to this article, from a pro-Israel site, regarding BNP reform.

http://www.think-israel.org/locke.bnp.html

Also maybe you should read this article on the BNP website in regards to their opinion on Israel.

http://bnp.org.uk/columnists/brimstone2.php?leeId=80

Much of the criticism I have seen of the BNP has come from the far left and we all know who they stand with in regards to the Islamic menace. Also the BNP have an elected Jewish councilor (Pat Robertson). So I put it to you that your opinions of the BNP are ill informed and are probably gleened from the same media outlets that are telling you there is no problem with Muslims and Islam is really a religion of peace.

Posted by: km at March 19, 2007 12:36 PM

JFGR,

You neglected to mention the following snippet from Nick Griffin's Wikipedia entry:

The BNP currently has a Jewish councillor, Patricia Richardson, and has stated that it has Jewish members.

The BNP also has ethnic minority (particularly Sikh) sympathisers. For example:

http://www.ethnicmedia.co.uk/Eastern_Eye/iframe_story.asp?NID=3989

Quoting Griffin from 9+ years ago does not prove anything about the party today. He was clearly wrong to question the scale of the Holocaust, but no longer does so. The Labour Party used to have a policy of unilateral nuclear disarmament, but no longer does so. See point viii at:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/countering_smears.html

If you want to find out about some of the unsavoury practices that members of the UK's "mainstream" parties indulge in, have a look at:

http://liarsbuggersandthieves.blogspot.com/

or see a summary of their activities over the years at:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/liars_oct04.htm

Posted by: watling at March 19, 2007 12:52 PM

JFGR et. al

I'd rather not get involved in Eurobusiness, but the way the word fascism has been used lately is about as meaningless as the term "Islamophobia". Few have been fighting fairly in the war of words lately.

Fascism "exalts nation and often race above the individual" and "stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." (Webster)

Note the bolded text above; race/ethnicity are neither necessary nor sufficient conditions for fascism.

You demonstrated that Griffin is a scumbag, not that the BNP is fascist or that it has a fascist agenda.

Generalizations.
Define your terms.
Etc.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 19, 2007 1:41 PM

NO one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at March 19, 2007 2:41 PM

The BNP constitutes anti-fascism in their articles. When they do form the next government and I hope it is soon, they will not use Hitler tactics. What they would do is halt immigration from Muslim countries, repeal multi-culturalism, and give justice to Muslim terrorists and their sympathizers and Jihadists. An addenda without political correctness is fine by me...

Posted by: The Resistance at March 19, 2007 3:16 PM

Jfgr:

I never intended British bashing in anything I've written. To extend my metaphore: the waters in the USA are not as turbulent from Islamism as they are in Britain (although there are ripples forming where festations have developed in Michigan and Minneapolis). We have a few politicians who see the threat though they are labeled as racist. I have no party like the BNP to turn to (and I do not believe thet are fascists) but you do. You should be thankful that concerned citizens have formed a viable political instrument to re-establish national pride and who know the threat of Islamism. There is no bigger enemy for Islamic Globalism than a strong nationalistic citizenry.

I beleive Britain and the United States are comrades in this fight as we share cultures and ideals that will be slaughtered in the wake of Sharia.

Posted by: Briars at March 19, 2007 5:35 PM

“The way the word fascism has been used lately is about as meaningless as the term "Islamophobia".”

OK, I’ll rephrase it as “neo-fascism” – same objections apply.

“Fascism "exalts nation and often race above the individual" and "stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." (Webster)”

Certainly the BNP exalts nation and often race – in fact that is its raison d’etre, which in itself is suspicious to me and many others. Of course we don’t know what their behaviour would be if they ever got power, and that’s where I differ from their many apologists on this site – I just don’t trust them, despite their recent efforts to seem respectable. I wouldn’t mind betting that “forcible suppression of opposition” would be fairly high on the agenda.

“Race/ethnicity are neither necessary nor sufficient conditions for fascism.”

I think that an obsession with race/ethnicity, such as the BNP has shown all along, is certainly a good indicator of (neo-) fascist tendencies. It is up to the individual to judge whether it is a necessary or sufficient condition for (neo-)fascism (pace Mr Webster).

“You demonstrated that Griffin is a scumbag, not that the BNP is fascist or that it has a fascist agenda.”.

I’m afraid that I don’t have the time (or interest) to demonstrate the latter, and it would probably not convince you anyway, since it is a matter of whether one judges them by their recent protestations or their stated views over the last twenty years or more, but if their leader is a “scumbag” (your words) it hardly inspires much confidence in the party he leads -- and his predecessor as leader was even worse.

As for the much-vaunted Jewish BNP members, I seem to remember that some Jews in Germany initially gave the Nazis the benefit of the doubt. I would say that that the BNP Jews were sadly misguided by the obvious attractions of a strongly anti-Islamic party.

(My last post on the BNP for the time being.)

Posted by: JFGR at March 19, 2007 7:30 PM

JFGR,

I can see that use utilize a manner of thinking that is typical of many leftists and that arguing with you would be a waste of time.

I’m afraid that I don’t have the time (or interest) to demonstrate the latter

The reality is that it's probably only fascist in your own mind. Clearly the BNP is bad/evil/whatever to you so it doesn't matter much what word you use or how you define it, so long as it suits your argument.

it would probably not convince you anyway

Like I said, it's your business, not mine. Perhaps the BNP really does have “forcible suppression of opposition... fairly high on the agenda." I've never held a position either way.

But you are correct: you certainly haven't been very convincing -- your tactics suggest that you argue to "win", not convince. The only substantial point you've made so far is that their leader is/was an anti-semite (but apparently not a scumbag [my word]).

some Jews in Germany initially gave the Nazis the benefit of the doubt.

Yup, invoke the Nazis. Classic.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 19, 2007 10:01 PM

LONG LIVE FREE BRITAIN AND FREE EUROPE!!!

Posted by: The Resistance at March 20, 2007 12:51 AM

Republicans are fascist, Bush is Hitler, etc.

I think you'd fit right in over here in the US of A.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 20, 2007 6:54 AM

I was going to desist from posting on the BNP, but this ad hominem attack requires rebuttal:

"I can see that [you] utilize a manner of thinking that is typical of many leftists and that arguing with you would be a waste of time."

I am not a leftist, unless you believe everyone who questions the trustworthiness and democratic credentials of the BNP is a leftist. Nuff said.

Posted by: JFGR at March 20, 2007 8:40 AM

The "hate crime" laws are nothing but sharia law via the back door.Criticise any religion except islam, that is ok. One word against the Paedophile Prophet and you have committed a "hate crime". May I suggest you write to every MP possible, remind him/her that an election is approaching and ask for a personal committment that he/she will take all possible steps to obtain the repeal of these oppressive laws. If no such committment is forthcoming assure him/her that you will vote for someone who will. I think they will take the hint.

Posted by: Peter at March 21, 2007 4:19 PM

Many of the blogs I have accidentally read from time to time have demonstrated an appalling level of literacy, I hasten to exclude this site. I find it quite depressing when the authorities of one of our "Great" universities appear unable to distinguish between race and a religio/political system. So far as I can tell the offending material had nothing to do with race,rather the morals of a racist, Arab-Supremacist False Prophet.

Posted by: Peter at March 21, 2007 5:02 PM

My comment disappeared (see the explanation on JW), so I'll attempt to reconstruct it.

JFGR,

I did consider that you might not be a leftist, so I wrote that you think like one, not that you are one.

But I was also trying to avoid the impression that ALL leftists think like, for example, Glenn Greenwald. I see now that the way I wrote it tends to give the wrong impression.

My bad.

BTW, I'm glad you don't identify yourself as a leftist.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 21, 2007 5:43 PM