One can only hope that Russia comes to the rescue and cognizant of the fact that the USA is tied down in Iraq (and needs Russia's support re: Iran)brooks no resistance from the clueless Condi and the Idiot in Chief.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at March 26, 2007 4:36 PM

I hope as well that Russia will stand up against this. However I would be afraid that if Russia doesn't get its way, it would then help support Iran in the UN.

Russia, I don't think, completely understands that nature of Islam, which can be seen in Russia's response to the partition of Serbia.

If Kosovo is separated, Russia will then support the separation of Transdneister from Moldova and Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia. The thing is though, Abkhazia is primarily Muslim, and I don't know why Russia would accept more Muslims when they already facing down the loss of their Christian Orthodox heritage.

Russia has already handed out Russian passport like they were candy, making Abkhazians de facto Russian citizens.

Posted by: npabga at March 26, 2007 4:50 PM

You got baloney for brains if you keep supporting salami jihad,

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at March 26, 2007 5:01 PM

On a different thought, despite the historical reasons, it might be better if Serbia let Kosovo separate from them. Just annex the areas of Kosovo that are primarily Serbian Orthodox, and then keep the Muslims out, through whatever means necessary, just like the US should be doing with its immigration.

Why any nation would accept such a large amount of unassimilatable people is beyond me, whether through immigration, like the EU and North America, annexing primarily Muslim areas, like Russia with Abkhazia, or fighting to keep the ingrates, a-la Serbia and Thailand.

And if these people now homogonous, give rise to a state based on jihad, then we can bomb without concerns for the innocent.

Posted by: npabga at March 26, 2007 5:02 PM

The UN is right to grant the people of Kosovo a right to self determination ie independence from the shackles of serbian oppression

Posted by: Abdullah at March 26, 2007 5:21 PM

And this, in essense, is the Serb lie to the West: That in demanding to take over an area that doesn't want to be ruled by it -- whose people it tried to genocide -- that they are fighting jihad.

No, they're not. They are trying to annex land now, just like the tried to annex all of the Balkans when Tito died and left a power vacuum.

Under not circumstances should the Serbs be allowed to rule anybody -- much less a people they tried to exterminate.

For once the UN got it right. That Russia, our mortal enemy at this point with its self-serving dealings with Iran, wants Serbia to control another whole people, should be shock enough to wake people up.

Serbia's lie in the 1990s is that it had some ethnic right to control all the other ethnic groups in the Balkans -- or to gendercide (yup, you read it right) them out of procreativity.

Now Serbia's lie is that it's fighting jihad. Total BS.

Serbia's constant bringing up events from 500 years ago to try to bolster its so-called rights over people's own voting for independence from them -- hey, would **YOU** want Milosevic to decide if YOU live or die? Mladic? -- is just the same as Muslims coming up with some jazz that the land you live on is something a bad old crusader took from them years ago.

No. This time the UN got it right. And the European Union, too, which was right next door to Serb aggression in the 1990s.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 5:22 PM

Ahtisaari said Kosovo would not accept a return of Serb rule. "This is a reality one cannot deny; it is irreversible," he wrote in the report.

In politics, nothing is forever and nothing is impossible.

Posted by: DP111 at March 26, 2007 5:33 PM

Is it "irreversible" the way that the islamization of Western Europe, some keep claiming, is "irreversible"? Or is it "irreversible" the way that the Muslim conquest of the Iberian Peninsula was, in fact, "reversed"? Or Sicily retaken? Or Greece and the Balkans and Rumania and Bulgaria freed from the Ottoman masters? Or the Jews who managed to return and restore the land, and re-establish in Israel their ancient commonwealth, with no fabulous oil resources, and to fight off, repeatedly, assaults on it by circumambient Muslims who could not tolerate such a "reverse"?

Is that what Ihtisaari means by "irreversible" -- that once the Muslims push out the resident Serbs, then the only thing to do is to make the place entirely part of Dar al-Islam, for nowhere, apparently, are Muslims to have to endure what many non-Muslims have had to endure for 1350 years, which is to say, life as a minority?

Is that it?

Posted by: Hugh at March 26, 2007 5:46 PM

The reason the EU and USA intervened to stop Serbia, was because they acted like beasts. The worst type of NAZI scum. To take Kosovo in isolation, is to forget they also attacked just about everybody else. Croatia, being a good example. Shelling the "strategically" important town of Dubrovnick, that was a humanitarian act.
I don't think Albania should be allowed to rule Kosovo, which is really what this all amounts to, I don't want the spread of yet more whining muslims into Europe. But I draw the line at supporting murdering, raping beasts. We have to win by being better, we could have shoved Germans into gas chambers, or become a rape machine, like the Russian army. We could have worked the Japanese to death on large industrial projects, pointing out the they surrendered and therefore didn't deserve the "honour" of life. We didn't because we're better than that.
We have to win, and keep our moral centre, it's no good looking from man to pig, and pig to man, and not being able to tell the difference.
To compromise is to die a little, and who wants to do that?

Posted by: Ian at March 26, 2007 5:46 PM

Now Serbia's lie is that it's fighting jihad. Total BS. Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair

YAAWWWN! Substitute 'Serbia's' in the above statement with 'Morgaan', and the BS is removed.

The UN's endlosung continues... Today Serbia, tomorrow Israel, day after...

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 26, 2007 5:58 PM

i wonder why the UN say this yet resist any notion that nagorno karabakh should be independent....

i keep coming back to the concept that the UN is really the UM (united Mohammedeans)

Posted by: exposesithlords at March 26, 2007 6:07 PM

Morgaan Sinclair:

Overall I agree with much of what you've written, that the wars that wracked Yugoslavia in the 90s had nothing to do with stopping the spread of Jihad or Islam, but all to do with Milosevic and the idea of a greater Serbia. But to nitpick:

Serbia is not trying to annex land now. Can a nation annex land that already makes up a part of it's territory? Most nations already acknowledge that Kosovo is a nominal part of Serbia, and has been since the formation of Yugoslavia after WWI and again after WWII.

Can Serbs rule other Serbs? Or should the UN step in? Ok I am being snarky.

Russia is not our mortal enemy. Nobody in power seems to realize that we (EU, North America, Russiaa) are in the same boat. Our mortal enemies are those nations that help support Islamic supremacism, i.e. Iran.

I do feel that it is well within reason that Serbia can now be an ally against Islamism, especially with the change in government.

And don't forget the actions of many Albanians after the NATO bombing - reverse ethnic cleansing, the destruction of monasteries and churches, and most importantly, the murders of the Serb minority.

Posted by: npabga at March 26, 2007 6:08 PM

Morgan Sinclair:

I somewhat agree with you on Serbia's actions.
I agree that genocide is not the answer.

What nobody seems to realise is that Serbia was badly treated during World War 2. And when Tito was leader of Yugoslavia, a lot of "unfinished business" was frozen while he was alive. As soon as he died, Yugoslavia unravelled, starting with Slovenia. Serbia's action are explainable in the light of previous history.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 26, 2007 6:15 PM

I'm very tired of this anti Serb crap! No one seems to care that the victims in this mess were the Serbs.

Russia seems to be the only country out there that has dealt with this issue, and seems to be the rock that may keep this country as one.

Attached below is a link of significance to the arguments anti Serbs keep posting here. Please read this link.

How much is one country supposed to put up with before we realize who the enemy is? The US has a huge cross to bear for what it did here, and she needs to step up and show the world that there is some common sense left in the US administration.

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/borojevic/053.shtml

Posted by: The fanatic at March 26, 2007 6:45 PM

What about southern Sudan where an Islamist government committed a real genocide. Do the Christians and Animists in south Sudan get independence?

What about Kashmiri pundits pushed out by the Islamic invaders and population growth of Muslims in Kashmir. Can they never return to their own lands?

Is Muslim invasion of the lands of non-Muslims to be recognised as a permanent feature of the world and granted respectability and UN legallity?

Islam has always invaded, conquered, converted by force or driven the native people out. This is happening to Christians in the ME right now.

What has happened in Kosovo is just another part of the Jihad against the world of the non-Muslim.

Posted by: DP111 at March 26, 2007 7:00 PM

Here's another link for anyone who might care. I know I've stated this before, but Bill Clinton should be brought before the Hague for war crimes against the Serbian people.

He intentionally bombed civilian targets, including the Chinese embassy during this illegal war. Once again this war was voted against in Congress and NATO violated its own charter to become an invader when no act against any NATO countries had taken place, illegal on two fronts.

There are many reasons Kosovo should remain Serbian, but for those amongst us who differ, I would like to ask how would you feel if the international community came together and stated California has the right to leave the US and become an independent Latin state. I think you would see the absurdity of that, but somehow when it is in Europe and it involves Orthodox Christians no one seems to care.

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/088.shtml

Posted by: The fanatic at March 26, 2007 7:07 PM

Yeah, what's up with the anti-Serb BS? Must be new around here, Jihadwatchers usually are smarter than that. Croatia apologists are the protectors and taqiyya-meisters of the Nazi death machine. Please ally yourself with your natural Islamist allies so we can keep things sorted out straight here.

Posted by: Abu Lahab at March 26, 2007 7:10 PM

Great precedent to be setting.

What if the UN decides to give SWern states to Mexico? Do Condi and Bush go along with that?

What idiots!

US get out of the UN!
UN get out of the US!

Posted by: LoneRanger at March 26, 2007 7:10 PM

Hi, UK Infidel Lover ...

Well, here's the rub. The Serbs say they were treated badly during WWII. The Albanians lost NOT ONE of their Jews to the Nazis because they hid them in cover, the mayor of Pristina threatened to kill the Nazi commander IN HIS OFFICE with his bare hands if requested they turn over Jews again, and then when it was clear that the Nazis weren't going to stop, they told the Nazis that the Jews all had typhoid. [That was clever!]

Meanwhile, we hear forever about the Bosian SS contingent -- but not that when they got to France they all mutinied. Actually, I believe they refused to fight in the rain. Something to think about there.

Now the problem is this: I'm tired of this "abuse excuse". We're hearing from the Serbs that they were badly treated in World War II and for however many centuries from the Muslims. Then we have the entire population of European Celts who were exterminated in the Inquisition. Then we have the Muslims whining about the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I, resulting in the rise of the Ikhwan in Saudi Arabia and the invention of the Muslim Brotherhood (much to counter women's lib).

If you want to look at who got treated badly in WW2, then look at the Poles -- 11 million dead. Do you see them claiming that's an excuse for them to cancel everybody's vote and take lands that don't belong to them?

Basically, the wars in the Balkans were just one thing: Tito died and left a vacuum, and then Milosevic comes along with the SERB DREAM OF EMPIRE. Well, truth is they did have an empire, and it fell apart as empires tend to do. And, frankly, the folks in Europe lost their sense of humor about it when a Serb nationalist fanatic shot the Grand Duke Ferdinand and his wife in cold blood, and started World War I.

By 1991 Milosevic had tried to claim all of the Balkans for Serbia. And then people started voting themselves out as fast as they could: the Bosnians, the Croats, the Kosovars -- both Catholic and Muslim. The Jews ran as fast as they could into Muslim territories for protection.

Then the UN disarmed the Bosnians in a misguided attempt to avoid a civil war. So the Bosnians have no weapons for self-defense. The Serbs, with ALL THE MATERIEL OF THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA then proceeded to shell a defenseless Sarajevo for THREE YEARS. That is why nobody trusts the Serbs. These guys fired on defenseless men, women and children for three years.

Then when all hell breaks loose in Kosovo, the Serbs tell their own people to leave so when they rain fire from hell no SERBS get hurt. After the atrocities reached worse than Gestapo levels, NATO, at the request of the Kosovars themselves, shelled the Serbs back into what is now Serbia. Now the Serbs are whining that the Albanians are the majority in Kosovo. So, who the hell told the Serbs to leave in the first place? The Serbs.

That Al Qaeda makes war on the West because of the loss of the "Ottoman lands" -- this is the Ottoman Empire that the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia tried to bring down for 80 years before it fell! -- is no excuse for their war on the West.

That the Serbs had a bad time in WW2 -- which they did -- is no excuse for their trying to genocide other ethnic groups in the Balkans or for the rape camps they ran to try to demoralize others.

And we will know that the Serbs have grown in decency when they hand over Mladic, and they do know where he is.

The past is no excuse for continuing the 50 or so irredentia wars that are taking place on this planet at any time. Just choose a time, and that's how many skirmishes or wars are going on.

Now, the bottom line is this: The Jews did NOT steal the Serb "holocaust". They need to get off that.

They need to turn over Mladic.

They need to ban the websites saying that Jews cauase all the problems in the world. [See Helsinki report on that]

They also need to stop trying to intimidate other ethnic groups in the Balkans.

And they need to do it for their own good.

When the wars in the Balkans broke out, the Albanians showed Martin Luther King vidoes for three years, until the atrocities got so bad they decided to defend themselves. They won't be making that mistake again.

The Serbs gave up any rights to Kosovo when they attempted genocide, when the paramilitaries deliberately killed 7,800 people at Srebrenica, when they set up rape camps, and when they attempted to practice wholesale gendercide of non-Serb males (see gendercide.com for details on this).

And the Serbs are exhibiting tremendous hubris and an intense inability to learn from their mistakes -- or even to face them.

And I say that because if they try to take Kosovo, they will wind up without Serbia. And war could engulf all of the Balkans again. Because NOBODY IN THE BALKANS -- not the Croats, not the Catholic Kosovars, not the Bosnians, not the Albanians -- is ever going to put up with Serb rule or control again. Even the Montenegrins voted themselves out of Serbia last year.

So that's everybody: Montenegrins, Bosnians, Croats, Kosovars and Albanians -- EVERY LAST GROUP IN THE BALKANS VOTED THEMSELVES OUT OF SERB CONTROL.

That ought to be enough. Who are the Serbs -- and who are we -- to say these people must submit to the control of those who tried to exterminate them.

And the very idea that somehow we should the support the Serbs as our proxy fighters against jihad is absurd, tawdry, and utterly dishonest.

They aren't in it to fight jihad. And the folks who are really fighting jihad are the Bosnians and the Albanians who are kicking ass 24/7/365 and whose successful adventures are never seen on these pages unless I post them.

The Serb attempt to conflate their greed for land and power with the American attempt to fight terrorism is the tawdriest manipulation I've seen in quite some time.

I think our position as Americans should be to aid the Serbs with information to track terrorists -- but absolutely to refuse to be part of the ongoing Serb insanity, greed, ethnic supremacy, and lust for control that may have killed as many as 250,000 people in a decade of debased violence in which the Serbs first disarmed their victimes and them slaughtered by taking every shred of Yugoslavia armaments and materiel as their own.

The intense lobbying of the American public, using the War on Terror as leverage, has been shocking and disgusting. Srdja Trifikovic, who writes on this site, got on Fox News and lied to the American people (Dayside with Mike and Juliette), saying that the Srebrenica video was a fake. He did this after his own Serbian government vouched for its complete validity. So he lied directly to Americans ... and then wrapped by saying that Americans had come into the war in the Balkans on the wrong side.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Unless you believe that the extermination of Bosnians, Albanians, and Croats -- a total ethnic cleansing of all that is non-Serb would have been something you could actually live with.

I don't think any of us could.

For anyone who has not read the Balkans Timeline, it is available from Cambridge University. For anybody not aware of what is going on with Serb anti-Semitism the Helsinki report released last year will cause you great concern.

The bottom line is: it is only common sense that the world should not give a people again to those who tried to exterminate them.

Giving Kosovo to the Serbs would be like giving Israel to HAMAS.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 7:27 PM

The UN is right to grant the people of Kosovo a right to self determination ie independence from the shackles of serbian oppression

Posted by: Abdullah

Denn heute gehört uns Kosovo
Und morgen die ganze Welt!

Not so fast, dear Abby.. What about the Jews of Mecca. Even the KKKoran says there were Jews in Mecca BEFORE the Muhammatix began to take hold. The Jews are therefore the legitimate claimants to all of SOWdi Arabia and its oil. And Yemen. Then there are the Christians who were driven from Egypt and Syria and the Chaldaians from Iraq.

What about the Jews of turkey?

Dear Abby, you are opening a VERY deep can of worms here.

BESIDES: These Albanian "mooselimbs" are in reality the descendants of enslaved Serbians who really need to throw off the mental shackles of islam which have been forced upon them by the Beast Suleyman.

There is NO room in Europe for islam!

islam is an alien entity - RAUS DAMIT!

Posted by: Allahfanculo at March 26, 2007 7:39 PM

An open chancre sore on the face of Europe swollen with jihad-terrorists, pimps, drug dealers and 'Holy-Warriors- for-Export. Isn't it too late? How can this 'thing' ever again be part of Serbia? Fait accompli. Oh well, on the bright side Muslims tend to concentrate themselves into clearly defined targets when their push comes to our shove.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at March 26, 2007 7:42 PM

Human Rights Nightmare

Speech before UN Human Rights Council 4th Session
23 March 2007

Delivered by Hillel Neuer, Executive Director of UN Watch

Mr. President,

Six decades ago, in the aftermath of the Nazi horrors, Eleanor Roosevelt, Réné Cassin and other eminent figures gathered here, on the banks of Lake Geneva, to reaffirm the principle of human dignity. They created the Commission on Human Rights. Today, we ask: What has become of their noble dream?

In this session we see the answer. Faced with compelling reports from around the world of torture, persecution, and violence against women, what has the Council pronounced, and what has it decided?

Nothing. Its response has been silence. Its response has been indifference. Its response has been criminal.

One might say, in Harry Truman’s words, that this has become a Do-Nothing, Good-for-Nothing Council.

But that would be inaccurate. This Council has, after all, done something.

It has enacted one resolution after another condemning one single state: Israel. In eight pronouncements—and there will be three more this session—Hamas and Hezbollah have been granted impunity. The entire rest of the world—millions upon millions of victims, in 191 countries—continue to go ignored.

So yes, this Council is doing something. And the Middle East dictators who orchestrate this campaign will tell you it is a very good thing. That they seek to protect human rights, Palestinian rights.

So too, the racist murderers and rapists of Darfur women tell us they care about the rights of Palestinian women; the occupiers of Tibet care about the occupied; and the butchers of Muslims in Chechnya care about Muslims.

But do these self-proclaimed defenders truly care about Palestinian rights?

Let us consider the past few months. More than 130 Palestinians were killed by Palestinian forces. This is three times the combined total that were the pretext for calling special sessions in July and November. Yet the champions of Palestinian rights—Ahmadinejad, Assad, Khaddafi, John Dugard—they say nothing. Little 3-year-old boy Salam Balousha and his two brothers were murdered in their car by Prime Minister Haniyeh’s troops. Why has this Council chosen silence?

Because Israel could not be blamed. Because, in truth, the dictators who run this Council couldn’t care less about Palestinians, or about any human rights.

They seek to demonize Israeli democracy, to delegitimize the Jewish state, to scapegoat the Jewish people. They also seek something else: to distort and pervert the very language and idea of human rights.

You ask: What has become of the founders’ dream? With terrible lies, it is being turned into a nightmare.

Thank you, Mr. President.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UN HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL PRESIDENT LUIS ALFONSO DE ALBA:

For the first time in this session I will not express thanks for that statement. I shall point out to the distinguished representative of the organization that just spoke, the distinguished representative of United Nations Watch, if you'd kindly listen to me. I am sorry that I'm not in a position to thank you for your statement. I should mention that I will not tolerate any similar statements in the Council. The way in which members of this Council were referred to, and indeed the way in which the council itself was referred to, all of this is inadmissible. In the memory of the persons that you referred to, founders of the Human Rights Commission, and for the good of human rights, I would urge you in any future statements to observe some minimum proper conduct and language. Otherwise, any statement you make in similar tones to those used today will be taken out of the records.

there is a link at Youtube...

Posted by: Madduck at March 26, 2007 7:53 PM

Speaking of Condi's dangerous diplomacy, she now wants Israel to negotiate on the basis of the Saudi "peace plan." She seems to serve Saudi interests more than American interests. And Saudi Arabia is a state that practices a system much like jimcrow or apartheid, although based on religion, rather than skin color or biological race.

As to Kossovo, several posters above are very ignorant of the real history of that area. Under Ottoman rule, the Serbs were oppressed in Kossovo by Albanian Muslim chieftains and by the Ottoman state.

Also, what really happened there during the 1990s is a matter of controversy. There was a lot of deceitful reporting on Kossovo in the US press in the 1990s. See link for some of the seldom historical reality of Kossovo:
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2007/02/what-they-dont-want-you-to-know-about.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at March 26, 2007 8:11 PM

correction:
see link for some of the seldom known nowadays historical reality of Kossovo
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2007/02/what-they-dont-want-you-to-know-about.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at March 26, 2007 8:15 PM

European Crusader ...

I've sent your post claiming I am a "dirty Islamist" and an "Al Qaeda" agent to forum security and requested it be removed.

Apparently, it's not OK with you if someone has a different opinion than you, one based on historical fact.

This little diatribe of yours is particularly enlightening, as it echoes so perfectly the "ethnic cleasing" element of Serb thinking:

QUOTING: The Serbs don't want to rule any other people that doesn't want to be ruled by them. The muslims in kosovo can simply go home to albania or saudi arabia. END QUOTE.

Actually, the Muslims in Kosovo LIVE there, not in Albania or Saudi Arabia. But the ethnic cleansing thinking here is, again, as always, disturbing.

You lack any semblance of civilized behavior. That people who simply will not support genocide, mass rape, ethnic cleasing, forced deporation and hte like should be call "Al Qaeda" or "dirty Islamist" is an indication of what YOU are, not what I am.

No lies have been told by me. A lot of libel has been done by you.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 8:20 PM

And they impeached Clinton for the Lewinsky business!
He set up two islmic states in Mainland Europe and bombed his wartime allies for goodness sake.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at March 26, 2007 8:36 PM

Morgaan Sinclair you missed out on one simple fact, the Muslims living in that region came to be there by ethnic cleansing and Islamic conquest.

I guess that doesn't mean much to many people does it?

Posted by: The fanatic at March 26, 2007 8:58 PM

I agree with The Fanatic.

Serbia are good patriotic Europeans and now that we've 'rewarded' them with NATO bombings we should have the decency to refrain from verbal abuse.

Here's another fine example of how moslems REALLY feel:

From a german news discussion site:

Turkey Head of State Recip Erogan while he was mayor of occupied Konstantinopoulos:

"Die Demokratie ist nur der Zug, auf den wir aufsteigen, bis wir am Ziel sind. Die Moscheen sind unsere Kasernen, die Minarette unsere Bajonette, die Kuppeln unsere Helme und die Gläubigen unsere Soldaten."

"Democracy is but a train which we shall board until we have reached our destination [aims or objectives]. The mosks are our military Barracks, the minarets are our bayonets, the cupolas are our helmets and the Believers are our soldiers."

This is the Head of State in Turkey. What else do I need to say?

Oh and by the way.. hos daughter is studying right here in the Good Ole US of A. You want to know WHY she CHOOSES to study here?!

Because she can wear her headscarf which she isn't allowed to wear by Turkish Law.

They're playing possum till they get in the EU, my friends!

If we hand them Kosovo on the backs of Serbia then we will one day have to hand them South Sweden and Norway! We will have to hand them London and other cities in England! We'll have to hand them vast portions of Germany France and Spain!

The United Nations are working to DESTROY and DISMANTLE EUROPE - NO LESS is what is going on here.

God I hate to be a prophet but I SEE it coming! I FEEL it in every fiber of my body.

Let us DEFEND Serbia!! Serbia is the Canary in the European coalmine.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at March 26, 2007 9:09 PM

Dear npabga ...

I believe that The Hague is prosecuting cases right now that have to do with crimes AGAINST the Serbs carried out by Bosnians. There are other cases coming up shortly against a couple of Croats, and, I think, an Albanian. 60% of the war crimes cases are against Serbs. The other 40% are against all other groups combined.

Serbia could be a great ally against jihadism *** IF *** it were not opposed to all Muslims with the intent of ethnically cleansing or genociding them. That's what makes the current problem so unfortunate. The behavior of the Serbs in the 1990s, the complete unwillingness to face what went on, the upsurge in "Serb radical nationalism" (self-named!) makes them an untrustworthy partner for us, because we can't trust them not to lose it and simply kill a whole bunch of people.

Everybody from Daniel Pipes to Paul Wolfowitz and many others have indicated that the general Islamic temperament in the Balkans is highly Europeanized and is one of the best pluralistic models around. The Albanian Catholics and Muslims have got along famously. And that Albanians (among them Catholics) have destroyed some Orthodox shrines and churhces is absolutely reprehensible. And I think the Orthodox Serbs destroyed some 1,700 mosques in the Balkans during the 1990s.

That doesn't excuse the Albanians from anything -- all crimes should be tried and convictions carrying sentences meted out. Period. No excuses. Enough of these damned excuses. They all sound like jihadists when they do this if you ask me.

On Kosovo: When a bunch of people try to ethnically cleanse everybody else -- tell their own people to leave Kosovo becuase they intend to raze every living thing there to ground -- then they should not be surprised if the Kosovars who remained and went through that hell don't want them back and don't want to be part of Serbia.

I think the UN statement today is indicative of the impossibility of Kosovo remaining (or becoming again) a part of Serbia. And this is what happens when an ethnic group goes too far.

When this sort of thing came down in Germany, the Jews left, and created Israel. The Albanians aren't going to flee. That is their home now, and they will stay.

And it is the Serb use of the totality of the materiel of the former Yugoslavia against non-Serb ethnic groups, many unarmed and unable to obtain arms for years, is what makes this irresolvable in terms of a return of Kosovo to Serb control.

Now, the main propagandan problem here is the lie the Serbs are telling now: and that lie is that it is a Serb Christian goodie-two-shoes fight against jihad that is going on here. It is not. Nor was it ever.

Here is a report from the International Crisis Group, written in 2001, but absolutely indicative of the real situation among the Albanians in Kosovo. It is a solid analysis of what went on:

QUOTING:

Religion in Kosovo

Europe Report N°105
31 January 2001
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

This report seeks to describe the current position of the three major religious communities in Kosovo. In part, it aims to clarify misconceptions about the involvement of religion in the Kosovo conflict. It also proposes some areas where religion might serve as a means to encourage reconciliation among the peoples of Kosovo.

Three religions – Islam, Orthodoxy, and Catholicism, have long coexisted in Kosovo. A large majority of Kosovo Albanians consider themselves, at least nominally, to be Muslim. A minority, about 60,000, are Catholic. Most Kosovo Serbs, even those who are not active religious believers, consider Orthodoxy to be an important component of their national identity. Nevertheless, despite this essential division of religious activities along ethnic lines, it cannot be said that religion per se was an important contributing factor in the conflict between Serbs and Albanians.

Kosovo Albanians do not define their national identity through religion, but through language and have a relatively relaxed approach towards the observance of the forms of the Islamic religion. Neither Islamic leaders nor Islamic theology played a significant role in either the eight-year campaign of non-violent resistance to the Serb occupation regime or the armed resistance of 1998-99. Islamic political and social fundamentalism, as that term is understood with respect to the Middle East, has very little resonance in Kosovo.

The image of Kosovo Serbs and their monasteries, usually portrayed as suffering harassment and persecution by the Albanian majority population, formed a part of the nationalist propaganda that Milosevic and his supporters used to manipulate popular emotions. The Serbian Orthodox Church, however, was always divided over Milosevic. It initially supported him in large part to end what it saw as the victimisation of the Serb nation under Communism and to reverse the decline of the Serb presence in Kosovo. But Milosevic’s Communist career made the Church uneasy, as did his use of violence. By the early 1990s, Patriarch Pavle was publicly criticising Milosevic although some other members of the Orthodox hierarchy continued to support him. After the 1999 war, Bishop Artemije, the head of the Orthodox Church in Kosovo, assumed the leadership of those Serbs willing to work with the International community there.

During the war, Serb forces destroyed numerous Islamic facilities, including virtually all Islamic libraries and archives. After the war, Albanians replied by destroying scores of Orthodox churches. These acts of reciprocal vandalism seemed motivated on both sides more by the desire to eradicate the evidence of the other's presence in Kosovo than by religious fanaticism.

The Serbian and Albanian religious communities have been more willing to talk to each other than other sectors of Kosovo society. As early as March 1999, before the NATO-led intervention, representatives appointed by the leaders of the three main religious communities in Kosovo (Islamic, Orthodox and Roman Catholic) held a joint meeting in Pristina that was convened by the World Conference on Religion and Peace (WCRP) to facilitate dialogue. The representatives expressed opposition to the misuse of religion for political reasons on all sides and called on all parties not to use religious symbols to promote violence or intolerance. They also expressed their determination to maintain direct contacts between the religious communities and to build channels of communication. An informal level of dialogue has continued on a regular basis between some members of the three main religious communities. These interfaith meetings still contain some risks for the participants, but they can be useful for facilitating a better climate of tolerance and understanding between the ethnic communities and might appropriately be the focus of greater international community support.

END QUOTE: [REF: http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1591&l=1]

Now ... since 9/11 the Muslims all over the Balkans have been under absolutely siege by the Saudis. Last week the Bosnian revoked 400 visas, mostly Saudi, to banish the trouble-makers out of Bosnia. Any Saudi Wahhabi who thinks they count on overtaking Kosovo with the Albanians there is a fool indeed. In fact, if the Serbs know what they're doing, they will leave the Albanians in Kosovo right where they are, because there is no possibility that the Albanian men are EVER, EVER, EVER going to let a Wahhabi push around an Albanian woman. That's not going to happen.

There was a famous case where an Albanian during Ottoman Empire times converted to Chrsitianity. The Muslim commandos in the area, this being an important guy, took him all the way to Istanbul to be tried before the Sultan himself. The Sultan took one at the guy and told them to leave him alone. Why? Becuase,said the Sultan, the religion of Albanians (as shown above) is not Islam, it's Albania.

Now, I think it's terribly unfortunate that the Serbs told all the Serb ethnic peoples in Kosovo to leave. But it must be acknowledged that the reason they did so is that what they intended to do these people -- and, in fact, what they did -- was so horrible they didn't want any Serb to suffer it. And what the Serbs did in Kosovo was so terrible that the Albanians there, the Kosovar Catholics, and the ethnic Christian Croats (majority of Croats are Christians) begged NATO to bomb them, knowing they would lose tens of thousands of people in friendly fire deaths. But they were tortured to death anyway, which is why the Kosovars gave the order for NATO to bomb their own people. It had to stop.

Ten years is never enough when are talking about something like this. It is the most astonishing hubris that the Serbs would actually try to do this to the people living in Kosovo now after what they did less than 15 years ago. It will take generations ... and only then if there is great peace and kindness going from the Serbs to the people of Kosovo of all religions and ethnic groups.

So, at this point, Serbia as an ally against supposed jihadism -- a lie -- on the part of the majority of Muslism in the Balkans is untrustworthy, an act of egregious lying and subterfuge that the American people shouldn't fall for.

And all those "disciples" of the government of Serbia in the United States who are pretending to be pundits but are really repreentatives of foreign powers should register as such with the state department.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 9:12 PM

hugh

so we can promote, encourage and morally support the far-right serbian hardline nationalists, yet to even squeak about a certain british nationalistic party then out comes the ignorant rants and wild accusations of racism and being a nazi from certain posters. please explain...

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at March 26, 2007 9:13 PM

Comparing the Serbs to Hamas is GALLING!

You have some NERVE!!

Do you have ANY idea what they've been doing to the Balkan peoples for centuries??

We're here in the 'relative' safety of the United States!

The Serbs have lived surrounded by islam for CENTURIES!! They finally have HAD it!!

What you saw there is NOTHING compared to what you will see in the future if islamic infiltration into Europe is allowed to continue.

There will be bloodshed and violence of untold proportions on both sides.

We Europeans simply CANNOT tolerate what they are doing to us under the noses of our 'watchful' governments.

THAT is the reality of today!

Serbia has been in the middle of this for far too long. We've had our backs turned against them - don't ask me why.

I only hope that Mother Russia won't let the hostile UN carve up her "young".

Many people in Germany are beginning to express their support for Serbia. Now that we KNOW what islam is like. Now that we are experiencing the pleasures of living with jihad in our daily lives.

NO WAY will I allow anyone to say anything against Serbia!

Posted by: Allahfanculo at March 26, 2007 9:17 PM

Allahfanculo ...

Unfortunately for you, we still have free speech in this country.

BTW, I did not say Serbia *was* HAMAS. I drew a perfectly legitimate analogy. Serbia tried to genocide the Kosovar Albanians -- who tried peaceful resistance for EIGHT YEARS before really pushing back. The attempt by Serbia was to exterminate these people -- roughly equivalent to the sworn intent of HAMAS toward the Israelis.

The reverse however is not true. The Albanians, Croats, and Bosnians did NOT try to exterminate the Serbs at all. This was a war, or series of wars, that Serbs started, and had NATO not intervened they would have succeeded in exterminating ever non-Serb ethnic group in the Balkans.

Sorry, but the Serbs have the responsibility to take.

Please read the analysis from Crisis Center above. It's the most succinct analysis of religion and ethnic concerns in the Balkans that I can find for you.

The identity of Albanians is Albanian principally, not Muslim, and an attempt by Serb disinformationalists to portray the Albanians, who let themselves be attacked for EIGHT YEARS before responding in kind, as jihadists is beneath the dignity of any honorable person to engage in.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 9:24 PM

The Fanatic.

You wrote: Morgaan Sinclair you missed out on one simple fact, the Muslims living in that region came to be there by ethnic cleansing and Islamic conquest.

OK, but here you go doing it again. We all say that the Muslim jihadists have NO BUSINESS going back 500 years to imagined or real bad things done to people they have never known and using that as an excuse to attack us.

You think the Christians living in Nigeria didn't get there by conquest? You think the Christians living in the United States didn't get there by conquest? You think all the people with white blood in South America didn't get there by conquest? What? 500 years ago?

Even of these excuses for genocide! No more! Not by them! Not by us!

So are you actually saying that the Serbs can ethnically cleanse all the Muslim in the Balkans -- all of whom have the same Balkans blood as the Serbs -- becuase 500 years ago the Ottomans came in -- but let the Orthodox and Catholic churches remain? Apparently, tax or not tax, the Ottomans at least didn't try the genocide that the Serbs tried in the 1990s.

Do try to remember this: The Albanians tried peaceful resistance for EIGHT YEARS -- and at the time Milosevic started it, Kosovo was ALREADY majority Muslim. That's why ethnic cleansing was tried. It's not suddenly that AFTER the war it's majority Muslim.

Please don't ever try to justify genocide on past conflicts. It's what Al Qaeda does all the time. They just declare something Dar-al-Islam and claim it. It's juvenile, but also extremely dangerous and unfair.

Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 26, 2007 9:32 PM

Kosovo is the historical heart of Serbia from a political and religious point of view.

The Serbs giving up Kosovo is tantamount to the Jews giving up Jerusalem to the Palestinians.

I disagree with U.S. policy concerning the partitioning of Kosovo. Russia has got it right.

Unfortunately, most westerners have been misinformed by the past events in Kosovo.

They have no knowledge about the religious destruction of Serbian Churches in Kosovo and the ethnic cleansing of the Christian Serbian population by the Muslim Albanians, especially following the U.S. aerial assault led by President Clinton and Gen. Wesley Clark.

Posted by: Johnathan at March 26, 2007 10:41 PM

The actual history of the war in Kosovo, I am unsure of and not qualified to speak about.

That being said, Morgaan has a deep, meaningful opinion on the matter. The lack of outright "corretions" from the administrators of this site in reference to her postings speaks volumes to me, however.

Many community members may, and judging from the postings on this thread apparently do, disagree with her, particularly regarding this historical topic. So be it.

In my opinion, Morgaan's postings are not now, nor have they ever been, synonomous with those from a pro-jihadist, pro-Islamic mindset. To accuse her of that, is irresponsible, at best.

Posted by: awake at March 26, 2007 11:14 PM

Now that Russia is getting its economic act together, lets hope she stands up to NATO. When the war-criminal Clinton bombed Yugoslavia to aid the Albanian genocide of Kosovo Serbs, he knew that Russia was broken, weak, and ruled by the incompetent Yeltsin.

Now the situation is different. Russia can tell NATO to get out of Kosovo or risk war. Threatening to nuke London should be sufficient to get NATOs attention but such extreme matters wont be neccesary. Most of Europe is dependent on Russian oil and gas. Let the Europeans know they have two weeks to vacate Kosovo or the oil and gas will be sold to China instead.

Once NATO is forced out of Kosovo, the area can be pacified the same way Chechnya was pacified. I don't mean the way Putin brought peace to Chechnya but by the more effective methods used by Stalin back in 1943. Apllying that lesson to Kosovo, Serbian troops, assisted by Russian and Chinese special forces can give the Albanians 48 hours to leave for good. If they resist, kill them. Afterward, the Serbs who are now refugees can return to their homes and rebuild what the Muslims have destroyed.

I'm sure Morgaan will accuse me of advocating genocide, well so be it! Ethnic cleansing is a two-way street. No one cared about the Albanian genocide of Kosovo Serbs so now it's time these Albanian murderers got payback. Afterward, Russia and Serbia can liberate Bosnia from the Muslims as well as liberating Krajina. Then it's on to Constantinople.

As for Mr. Ahtisaari, Russia can reward him by re-annexing Finland. Perhaps we shall once again hear a Russian army sing the beautiful 1805 Preobrajensky March "Znayut-turki" ("We are known to Turks and Swedes"). Long live the Third Rome!

Posted by: Provoslavni at March 26, 2007 11:33 PM

Morgaan Sinclair

So thus we allow the muslim to mass murder the christians so we in the west can pat ourselves on the back and say see the serbs were bad too. I don't care what the serbs did in the past Morgaan because the jihadist will use the neo-albania to furthur conquest into Europe. That hurts us.

As for Croatia they were no better then the Serbs. I don't wish to bring the fact that the Nazis in WWII got support from many Croatians. I don't hear you crying over that.

Let me put it this way the Croatians, Serbs, the rest of Europe and Morgaan Sinclair better wake up and get over it because the hot shot arabs are going to use this new land of Allah to furthur their ends.....

The fall of Europe.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at March 26, 2007 11:34 PM

Morgaan Sinclair

"Please don't ever try to justify genocide on past conflicts. It's what Al Qaeda does all the time. They just declare something Dar-al-Islam and claim it. It's juvenile, but also extremely dangerous and unfair."

It is juvenile to think a Albanian proxy state with cash from Saudia Arabia and friends is good for us non-muslims. What do you think the new Kosovo will be?

Dar-al-Islam!

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at March 27, 2007 12:05 AM

Shame on all who would give this Criminal/Jihad
Enterprise known as Kosovo{for now} Independence.
Why wouldn't they? after all they have covered up their crimes of rape, churchburning, beheadings etc....all to appease the Islamists and painting the Serbs as the eternal villain.
EUrabia has sunk to a new low, as expected, but what of America, I say shame on you for your complicity once again with the K.L.F, Oh sorry, they are now democratic diplomats. But We know where they've come from, those that assisted your rise and how you behaved when you had enemy prisoners, what you done when you invaded Christian Churches, Independent Kosovo thy name is Jihad.

Posted by: sul3j at March 27, 2007 12:08 AM

people on here are advocating genocide but when we speak of the BNP we are slated, cut down, banned from jihadwatch and accussed of being racists and bigots????????????? the admin on here have a total lack of knowledge of the BNP. (yes this is off topic but promoting serbian nationalism and putting down british nationalism seems slightly hypocritical)

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at March 27, 2007 12:26 AM

Kosovo's independance must never happen. This is ground zero for the islamization of Europe. Kosovo always was and always will be part of serbia. Don't believe the anti serb propoganda. Clinton brought al-queda in the balkans to fight the serbs.

I still don't know why the troll Morgan sinclair is allowed to post here. Morgan, mohamed or whatever your name is be honest about who you are. No one wants to read your aimless rants.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at March 27, 2007 12:36 AM

The University of Illinois sports program will no longer be represented by the Fighting Illini. It turns out that the Illini tribe has been completely wiped out by a rival tribe and a representative is not available to endorse the honor that the State was trying to bestow upon it.

Mankind in its current form is the fruit of genocide. That is the ugly truth.

4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.

They would skin your children in a heartbeat. You can’t fight a 8th Century enemy with an early 21st Century Western mindset. Time to step back and watch. These things have a way of working themselves out.

Posted by: pez at March 27, 2007 12:51 AM

Robert

The Serbs do not have clean hands. The Serbs massacred in the cruelest of ways many Kosovar, Bosniand and Albanian women men and children and were actively engaged in ethnic cleansing. This doesnt absolve the Muslim atrocities, but it would be nice if you at least acknowledged that acts of genocide occurred by the Serbs.

You wrote:

The continued ill-treatment of Serbia paints a powerful picture for the rest of the world: resist jihad and the UN will cut you to pieces.

Serbia didnt stop at resisting jihad, it engaged in deliberate acts of genocide. Again, the Muslims contributed to this through their own activity. Serbia went too far.

Posted by: Haidon at March 27, 2007 1:14 AM

oh geez :)

Man, looks like this thread has devolved into something nasty.

Morgaan Sinclair, I am glad to see you back up your points with facts and further reading. It is appreciated.

Yes I agree that Serbia must do more to acknowledge past wrongs, to be a *better* ally against violent jihad and Islam. Having last summer traveled through all of the former People's Republics, excepting Slovenia, I could attest to the damages of war, from Dubrovnik to Sarajevo to Beograd.

But our staunchest ally in Asia, Japan, has just recently refused for a second time this week to admit it had thousands of forced sex workers from WWII. Why do I bring this up? Because we can't pick our allies sometimes. To paraphrase former US Secretary of State Cordell Hull, they may be SOBs, but they are SOBs who share our same interests.

Japan still hasn't acknowledged past wrongs, though we should expect Serbia to? Well I think we should expect this from both countries, states that I would consider "natural allies" unlike the double crossing or dishonest Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

In addition, Kosovo has historically been a part of Serbian identity. I don’t like to use this as a source but wikipedia has some interesting info on the history of Kosovo’s demography. (Take with the obligatory salt truck of salt)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo

Of note is the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in the late 1800s by the Turks and Albania as well as by Italy during WWII. During these years, the population is shown to be practically equal. Before this, the land was primarily Serb.
The fact that the Serbs still want to hold onto Kosovo can be explained in part to its importance as a part of Serbian identity.

Take care.

Posted by: npabga at March 27, 2007 1:22 AM

In my opinion, Morgaan's postings are not now, nor have they ever been, synonomous with those from a pro-jihadist, pro-Islamic mindset. To accuse her of that, is irresponsible, at best. Posted by: awake

awake

New or not, while we have and respect differences of opinion, one thing JihadWatchers aren't known for doing is supporting Jihad anywhere. If it's okay to state that Serbs shouldn't be allowed to determine the fate of Albanian infiltrators into Kosovo (what else does one call an Islamic campaign to reduce Serbian territory and expel ethnic Serbs from Kosovo?), what would be wrong with somebody stating, similarly, that Israel shouldn't be allowed to determine the fate of 'Palestinian' Muslims? Again, if it's okay to expel Serbs from Kosovo, what's wrong with expelling Kashmiri Pandits from Srinagar or Anantnag? And if it was okay for NATO to bomb Serbia, why doesn't NATO take military action against Russia - too shit scared that they'd be nuked, or have Po sprayed on their meals? Regardless of what one thinks of Serbia vis a vis the Croats, the Montenegrins and the Macedonians (I actually happen to be ambivalent about Serbia's other conflicts with their neighbors), one thing they do not deserve is to be opposed by the likes of us when they are confronting an Albanian (read Islamic) attempt to carve out a portion of their country, expel their populace, and then either create an Islamic Kosovo or annex it to Albania.

To be honest, I have more respect for Muslims who support Jihad everywhere, than I do for Infidels who oppose Jihad against some countries (like, say, US, Israel, India) but endorse it against Serbia or Russia.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 27, 2007 1:25 AM

Now the situation is different. Russia can tell NATO to get out of Kosovo or risk war. Threatening to nuke London should be sufficient to get NATOs attention but such extreme matters wont be neccesary. Most of Europe is dependent on Russian oil and gas. Let the Europeans know they have two weeks to vacate Kosovo or the oil and gas will be sold to China instead.

Provoslavni

I love your solutions. After all, in 1914, Russia declared war on Austria, which had a far more justified pretext in declaring war on Serbia - the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand at Sarajevo. While Serbia may have been behind that, there is no reason that Serbia should be at the receiving end of Western belligerence on behalf of the ummah. Volodaya Pootie-Poot needs to develop the same sort of testicular fortitude that Tsar Nikolai II had, when Russia declared war on Austria.

I don't know that I like the 'peaceful' oil solution as much. If they go that route, the West (meaning us included) will be even more dependent on the ummah. The level of our dependency is sickening as it is.

I'm sure Morgaan will accuse me of advocating genocide, well so be it! Ethnic cleansing is a two-way street. No one cared about the Albanian genocide of Kosovo Serbs so now it's time these Albanian murderers got payback. Afterward, Russia and Serbia can liberate Bosnia from the Muslims as well as liberating Krajina. Then it's on to Constantinople.

Good thinking. With NATO stupidly expanded to Russia's borders, including 'North Atlantic' countries such as Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan (and American students are the ones supposedly lacking in Geography skills?), I somehow doubt that the 'attack on one is an attack on all' principle will easily kick in.

As for Mr. Ahtisaari, Russia can reward him by re-annexing Finland. Perhaps we shall once again hear a Russian army sing the beautiful 1805 Preobrajensky March "Znayut-turki" ("We are known to Turks and Swedes"). Long live the Third Rome! Posted by: Provoslavni

That brings up an interesting question - if a country is conquered and annexed, would its people still be recognized as citizens of the vanquished country and entitled to work as UN officials? Besides, I love harking back to the days of another Tsar - Peter the Great, who taught both the Turks and the Swedes valuable lessons. Not to mention General Suvorov as well.

Actually, I'm rooting for Russia to annex Western Europe instead of Eastern Europe this time - they might be doing them some big favors, particularly in the department of Islamization.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 27, 2007 1:43 AM

Haidon

Greg Davis wrote this article

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 27, 2007 1:45 AM

I think that many posters here are conflating the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims as part of the wide network of violent jihad. This does not bear out under scrutiny.

Are there some Albanian and Bosnian Muslims who subscribe to Salafism, to violent jihad, or the goal of a world caliphate? Yes, there most probably are. However, the wars that wracked the former Yugoslavia were not religious in nature, particularly in the 90s, and therefore had no part to play in the global jihad, although the end result does seem to help the Dar al-Islam.

People who have recently thrown off decades of communist and by default atheist rule, regardless of their nominal religious affiliation, are not prone to religious extremism. In Russia, where I lived for sometime, it was perfectly fine to see a Muslim and Jew work together. I had them in my class and had them work together, without any animosity or problems between them.

The same is true for the former Yugoslav Republics. Religion is just another label, and is rarely practiced with devotion, whether by Orthodox, Catholic, or Muslim.

Now that being said, could this Islam, the one: (mentioned by Morgaan Sinclair) "Daniel Pipes to Paul Wolfowitz and many others have indicated that the general Islamic temperament in the Balkans is highly Europeanized and is one of the best pluralistic models around" Turn aggressive and regress? Yes, because it is my belief that this highly Europeanized Islam has nothing to do with the melding of cultures, the type that many Euro politicians base a false hope on developing from immigrants, but everything to do with the fact that Communism thrashed out completely all religious belief. Communism created this wonderful, almost secular Islam. But as the old generation dies out, and their offspring are left with their religious labels, you will see the destruction of "Europeanized Islam".

I remember being in Sarajevo at the old tunnel that ran under the airport, the one that was the life-blood of the besieged city, and noting that the Saudi flag was prominently displayed along with the US's. Just the start of a resurgence I am afraid, as the house of Saud gets its tendrils into a new fissure, or as people discover their family history.

Will most Muslims in Bosnia and Albania do this? I don't think so, particularly the 'Bosniaks'. But time will tell.

Posted by: npabga at March 27, 2007 1:47 AM

Provoslavni:

As much as I would like to see a strong Russia, this is not the type of Russia that would be a good "natural ally" against Islam.

Russia feels that it is now a force to be reckoned with, thanks to its oil wealth, so much that the Minister of Foreign Affairs Ivanov said "Russia could teach the west about economics". But this strength is just bluster. Take away its oil and gas wealth, and the Russian economy is shrinking. The Russian government is not investing in other industries, small business owners, or looking after Russians in general - to say nothing of the worsening demographic crisis. The Russian government is all about "image" but is not dealing with the deeper structural issues that make a true strong nation.

For me the issue is, Russia needs to clean house (rampant drug and alcohol abuse, too many abortions, an exploding AIDs rate, the spread of Islam, the depopulation of Siberia, huge increases in immigration) before it should look abroad. And it is my biggest hope that Russia will put a stop to all these problems today.

And again I cannot wrap my mind around why Russia wants even more Muslims by annexing Abkhazia. This just leads me to believe that those who run Russia do not care about Russia.

Also, forced population transfers are such a serious issue, and in general extremely bloody, that they should be done in the most extreme circumstances, and by their very nature are unjust. It is no surprise but paranoid Uncle Joe, hardly the example of a benevolent leader, has done most of these transfers in recent history. Should the Albanians in Kosovo have to put up with this? No. Their actions do not rise at all up to par with the Germans in the Sudeten, despite how they have acted under KFOR.
Мамочка, помоги доктору!

Posted by: npabga at March 27, 2007 2:19 AM

Sorry about that stuff at the bottom, it is code

Posted by: npabga at March 27, 2007 2:19 AM

I love this site. I live in Jerusalem in the heart of Muslim terror. I'm heartily anti-Muslim. But can we please not pretend that the Serbians didn't commit horrific atrocities against the Muslims of Bosnia? Can we please remember the mass "rape camps" where thousands of Muslim women and LITTLE GIRLS were brutally raped, for months on end, by hundreds of Serbian soldiers, until they either died or became pregnant? The Bosnian Muslims were not your typical Islamic fascists and I don't know what they did to deserve that kind of treatment.

Sorry, but Serbians are utterly revolting to me. I will never forget what they did. This is a case where "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not apply for me.

Posted by: AmericanJewess at March 27, 2007 2:35 AM

AmericanJewess

Welcome to JihadWatch. I'm disappointed by your outlook. I'd recommend this article, which was reproduced in DhimmiWatch last month by Julia Gorin, where she points out that Jews, who would like to get a fair hearing for Israel from the rest of the world, should accord the same courtesy to Serbia. To wit:

As a Jew who expects people to do their homework before taking a position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I became committed to doing my homework on the Balkans in 1999. It’s too bad that, eight years later, my fellow Jews still haven’t bothered.

If they had, they would see that the Serbs have been the canary's canary. What the world is trying to do to Israel is what it succeeded in doing to Serbia, which no longer has sovereignty, border integrity (the international community decides what is and isn’t Serbia’s), the right to protect its borders and to defend its citizens. And when Serbia dares to utter a peep of protest to these criminal infringements, it gets piled on by politicians and media alike (most consistently by The Wall St. Journal).

I suggest that the best that those anti-Jihadis who can't take Serbia's side on this should do is remain neutral. During WWII, none of the Western countries liked Soviet Communism, but none of them chose to take the side of Nazi Germany in combatting Communism. Similarly, while many may wince at the policies of Serbia, as opposed to Israel, the least they can do is stay out of it, and leave it to the Serbs to handle. If they can't let the Serbs prevent a final solution by the Albanians, they don't have left much of a moral ground to prevent other such solutions taking place against them by other Jihadis.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 27, 2007 3:07 AM

Infidel Pride

Thanks for that clarification, I should have read a bit closer. I see it is Greg Davis. To be honest, I think Davis is a bit of a lunatic. He's written some pretty shocking things, such as unqualified support for Serbian anti-terror efforts, even when they become tantamount to genocide.

I agree, people who support the fight against jihad in some places and not others are hypocrites. But let's separate fighting jihad from committing acts of genocide. If you deny the fact that acts of genocide took place by the Serbs (and Muslims to I might add), then you are no better than a holocaust denier. There are two sides to this conflict. That should be reflected in his analysis.

No party in this conflict can claim moral superiority.

Thomas

Posted by: Haidon at March 27, 2007 3:14 AM

@ Morgaan Sinclair

please take care of yourself. U can get a spasm of your fingers. And I dont wanna see yet another wictim of Serbian agression.

Posted by: svemirko at March 27, 2007 3:15 AM

Haidon

I don't deny that any genocides took place. I however agree with Rush Limbaugh that "There are no such things as war crimes - war itself is a crime." (something he wrote re: the characterization in the media of the Contra campaign against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 80s.) I'll maintain that there's a fine line between fighting Jihads, and commiting genocide, particularly given that civilian populations for Muslims were and are pawns to be used in advancing Muslim interests.

If Muslims don't want to be at the receiving end of genocides, there is a simple solution to it: don't start any jihads!

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 27, 2007 3:33 AM

American Jewess
Were you acutally there and SAW A RAPE CAMP? Or are you repeating parrot fashion what the media-and Bosnian Muslims were clever enough to use
a JEWISH Firm- who in turn used example of Jewish Holocaust in their propaganda against the Serbs.
In reality Jews died with Serbs in WW2-both were
declared 'Subhuman' & anything,literally anything
could be done to them.Take a look,my dear,at photos taken by Croatian Nazis themselves at what happened in Jasenovac where few if any Croats were ever charged for crimes which even revolted their German friends.Did you know LITTLE
SERB CHILDREN there were fed caustic soda mixed with scraps of food ,there are photos of emaciated little kids,the few who
survived the Hell of Jasenovac.There are photos of goodlooking blond Croatian men laughing & merry as they prepare to use a saw,a knife & finally a pistol on a bewildered Serb Farmer.
One of the most poignant is a pretty Serb woman
with her five children;all of them looking well nourished & cared for-her cherished little darlings-lost
forever-can only hope their deaths were swift!
No doubt the same happened to Jews and Roma...
Nowdays there is propaganda on every hand to say
that JEWS ARE DEMONS,THEY ARE EVIL,THEY ARE[FINAL
IRONY]NAZIS!! Hope I am not so stupid as to believe what the Anti Jewish media say and I don't. In fact I honour and respect Israel in its
struggle surrounded on every side by hostile Muslim neighbours.
It was a LIE which led me to any interest or defence of previously demonized Serbs.There are
journalists out there who did SEE another side of
the story & aren't afraid to say so although their voices have been stifled or discounted by
U.N, NATO & U.S.
As for Morgaan Sinclair's hysterical abuse of anything pertaining to Serbs-so you had a 'University Line'-well bully for you-guess you must know everything that happened in Bosnia[without you being there!!] To both of you-ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS THOSE 'DEMON SERBS' PUT ENEMY
WOMEN & CHILDREN ON BUSES WHERE MOST ARRIVED SAFELY-hey don't seem to recall the Nazis doing
that do you?? Also once again numbers of Dead are
distorted-much touted 200,000 figure has now admitted to be 100,000 dead-verified by BOSNIAN MUSLIMS.
Please note that David Hicks,that wee Aussie Angel,whiter than white Muslim WAS IN KOSOVO HELPING HIS ALBANIAN BROS before he took off for
Jihad in Afghanistan.
Final ironic note is seeming evidence Richard Holbrooke signed a secret deal with Karadzic-if Radovan 'disappeared from politics,agreement was he would be 'protected' from the Hague Court & live in reasonable comfort
on 600,000 U.S dollars.[Guess there was plenty they didn't want Karadzic to talk about...]
Wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar deal
with Mladic,eh.

Posted by: Morgane at March 27, 2007 3:49 AM

Infidel Pride

I agree with you. I don't support an independent Kosovar or Bosnian state because of their activities. However, accountability demands that people who kill civilians and engage in genocide and ethnic cleansing, whether Muslim or Serb, must be held accountable. This is why I support the work of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia.

As jihad continues we are likely to see more Serbs emerging. This is why we Muslims need to wake up, and do so fast. Non-Muslims have a threshold that is about to be reached.

Posted by: Haidon at March 27, 2007 4:16 AM

Morgane, did I say anywhere that the Croats were innocent victims of Serbian aggression? No, I did not. I didn't even mention the Croats at all. I know they were Nazi collaborators. I know the Serbs were victims in WWII. I know that Bosnia's Muslim government was making subtle moves to put more Muslims into power before the war there. I know. I know. I know.

My point is that rape, gang rape, rape of little girls especially, are heinous crimes, and the Serbians engaged in this activity EN MASSE. I distrust the media, yes, but this story, I believe. There is simply too much evidence and you only look like a fool when you deny it.

Lastly, how dare you compare Israeli Jews to Serbian Christians? Don't ever do that again. Tell me WHERE are the stories of mass rapes of Palestinian women by Jewish soldiers? Even the pathological liars of the mainstream media and the Arab world can't bring themselves to tell a whopper of that magnitude. It never happened, isn't happening now, and will never happen. It is not the way we fight. It is not who we are as Jews. I cannot say the same for Serbian "Christian" soldiers. For pete's sake, there are testimonies on file of Serbian soldiers admitting that they were threatened by their superiors with death if they didn't carry out rape orders.

An interesting question I'd like to address to our Muslim readers here: where is the outrage from the Arab/Muslim world over the very real atrocities committed against Muslims in Bosnia? Why is there more seething and raging against Jews who man the checkpoints in Israel than against those Serbians who raped your Muslim sisters in Bosnia?

Hello? Hello? Anybody there . . .?

Posted by: AmericanJewess at March 27, 2007 5:04 AM

AmericanJewess, what is the evidence you speak of? Don't give me individual cases because for every raped muslim woman I could come up with at least on raped Serb woman. Where were these so-called rape-camps? How many women were there? There has been an investigation lead by Simone Veil of the EU and it has revealed that the mass rape camps stories were propaganda hoaxes.

Posted by: Witch-king of Angmar at March 27, 2007 5:17 AM

Edit: My rant about the audacity of comparing Jewish soldiers to Serbian soldiers should have been directed toward Infidel Pride and Julia Gorin. There is no comparison.

War is hell. There are always two sides to the story. I can even understand mass killing under certain circumstances. But there is never any moral justification for raping women and children. And it happened, a lot.

Posted by: AmericanJewess at March 27, 2007 5:17 AM

Hello? Hello? Anybody there . . .?

Hey, Hey hold on cherry. I doubt that you are jewish at all but I don doubt that storyes about raping sounds abominate, and thats exactly what they are intended to do. Like a ferrytales about 250000 dead muslims, than 200000, and now 100000 (actual figure is 68000 muslims and the rest were Serbs and Croats). U may belive in 'testimonies on file of Serbian soldiers admitting that they were threatened by their superiors with death if they didn't carry out rape orders' as much as you like.I dont give a shit to disprove that, not because I cant, but speaking that rape IS islamic institutional way of wageing the war to someone who dont have a single word for raping the Serbian woman and not just in the last war, is wasting the time. I have read a bulk of bosnians on internet posting with open cinism how turks have rape and taking away most beautifull christian woman for more than a half millenia. How they exploit 'ius prima nocte'.And how they (bosnians) are maintain their fair skin, cos converting to islam turks didnt 'inbreed them, as they did to the Serbs so we are now more gipsy like.I can go on and on, but whats the f..k.

But, I Will dare to compare jewish soldiers with serbian not just to defy you. Recently, I have watch a documentary on visast history from some bbc-an author: palestine still in a problem. It shows a video of some jewish soldiers bracking the arm of captured arab. It portrays suicidal bombers as desperate people forced to act by jewish brutality.They even managed to finde a jew, whose little girl was killed in suicide attack, but who openly admits that he understand the paletinian suffer (maybe you can remember those so called 'guardians of the temple'- jews who support recent ahmedenigad conference in teheran on holocaust as a myth). In short, it was documentary realy worth of msm. You can just throw out jews from it and insert serbs, and do the same with palestinians and input bosniaks or albanians and the story was the same.Those who resist islam are bad guys. Those who try to understand muslims (never on behalf of history of last 14 centuryes) are good and wise.

Meantime you and Morgaane can marvel with most fresh news from CNN:
GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) -- Australian David Hicks, the first prisoner to face a new U.S. war crimes tribunal, unexpectedly pleaded guilty on Monday to a charge of helping al Qaeda fight American troops during the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan.
...
What CNN didn pleaded is that Hicks was KLA fighter and use to be trained in northern albanian kla terrorist camps during 1998.

Posted by: svemirko at March 27, 2007 5:40 AM

Witch king- of Angmar

Do your own research. You are no better than a Holocaust denier. The rapes took place, the ICTY has the evidence as does the Office of the HRC. American Jewess is absolutely correct. Point us to that study. Other UN reports have confirmed that ethnic cleansing was commonplace in the region. The Serbs have behaved like deparved animals. And if you support the extent to what they accomplished, you are an animal too.

The killing of innocents is wrong, under any circumstances. The acts of genocide committed by the Serbs (and Muslims)is reprehensible and must be punished no matter what the circumstances were. I wonder where you stand on Srbenica?

Thomas

Posted by: Haidon at March 27, 2007 5:42 AM

Yes well following this web site has certainly opened my eyes to the history and problems of the Muslim migration into Kosovo. I had no idea this was the situation until the last year as I have been reading here.

Posted by: payingattention at March 27, 2007 5:44 AM

Back to the topic. Hugh Fitzgerald has marvelously pointed out that the Iraq problem goes way way back but policymakers like to think that time started there with the coming of Sadam Hussein to power. The same is with Kosovo and Metohija, western establishment likes to impose an idea that all trouble in Kosovo started in 1990-ties and that all was well before. To anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the Balkans history it is an insult to their intelligence.

Albanian violence against the Serbs in Kosovo go way back to 1690 when after Austria recruited the Serbs to fight alongside them in an unsuccessful war against the Turks right after the breaking of the siege of Vienna. As a result of an Austrian defeat hundrets of thousands of Serbs fled Kosovo northward to escape Turkish retaliation. From then on that land was being settled by Albanians.

Albanians were always used by the ottoman Turks to opress the remaining Serb christian population in Kosovo and Metohija and Albanian pretensions on Kosovo were born with the First League of Prizren in 1878. Albanians were responsible for many attrocities against the Serbs until Turkey was driven out of the Balkans in the First Balkan war. Albanians also sided with Axis powers in WWII and Mussolini proclaimed the Italian dominion "Greater Albania". During that time hundreds of thousands of Serbs were driven away from their homes and many were murdered. After the war communist governememnt banned those people from returning and in the post war era a quiet anti Serb campaign was lead by the local party bosses which at times turned violent, especially in 1981 a year after Tito's death. You can read what was happening then here:

http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm.html

Kosovo Albanians, while pompously calling themselves "the people of Kosovo", after cleansing and killing most of the Serbs and other non-Albanians are trying to achieve independence. The fact is there has never ever been a state called Kosovo and there never has been a Kosovar people. These are all modern day concotions invented to obfuscate the real issue, to hide real ethnic cleansing and real genocidal behaviour by Albanians towards the Serbs and promote fabricated ones. Kosovo and Metohija were always either a part of Serbia or were occupied by a foreign power(usually at the same time Serbia itself was occupied). There are no legal, moral or historical justifications for the existence of an independent Kosovo and Metohija, just the argument of brute force.

I as a Serb will never ever accept any independent state of Kosovo, especially not on the graves of our ancestors and rubbles of our churches, and will strive to make conditions that, should such a thing come to be, Serbia, when the right time comes annuls it, one way or the other.

Posted by: Witch-king of Angmar at March 27, 2007 5:49 AM

BTW: I forgot to tell you about :
'An interesting question I'd like to address to our Muslim readers here: where is the outrage from the Arab/Muslim world over the very real atrocities committed against Muslims in Bosnia? Why is there more seething and raging against Jews who man the checkpoints in Israel than against those Serbians who raped your Muslim sisters in Bosnia?'

If I am a muslim, I would just start to think that you are trying to distract muslim attention from you simply putting a finger on someone else. Muslim are not so stupid to belive that Serbs are their worst enemy.Nor will serbian ultimate dissapirance make them less angry on you and the west. To put it more simply, untill islam exist you can bet there will be wars on planet Earth.And rape camps.Malignin the serbs will not make you look as good girl in muslim eyes. Only a good traitor. After all, we were not by name or default listed as apes and pigs in 'holly' quran.
You are.

Posted by: svemirko at March 27, 2007 5:53 AM

Witch-king, perhaps it is difficult to find evidence of the kind they were looking for. But you can't base a judgment about lack of evidence on "paper reports" from the Bosnian government, which is apparently what Simone Veil and team did. Rape is a deep shame in Muslim culture and obviously would be underreported by rape victims. They may be willing to tell their story anonymously to a reporter or medical worker, but they aren't going to file official reports for the permanent record of something they wish to keep secret from their husbands and families. There were non-Muslim physicians who have testified to the gynecological damage of large numbers of women seeking treatment. There IS evidence, if only someone wishes to find it. In this case, the victims aren't going to be much help because most of them refuse to identify themselves. I do not for a minute believe that the war crime of rape was evenly distributed among women of all three sides.

More to the point, I don't blame anyone for being wary of Muslims in their midst; Islam is a threat to the world and I can certainly understand Serbia's impulse to separate from its followers. But how stupid of the Serbians to pick the most inocuous of Muslim populations and then do this. Were the Bosnian Muslim civilians blowing up pizza parlors and buses and calling for the destruction of Serbia?? I didn't think so. That is why I can't see the sense in a comparison between Serbia's treatment of Muslims in their midst and our treatment of our Muslims. Yes, the world is rabidly anti-semitic and why it champions the murderous Muslims of the Middle East is beyond me, but I can't see how linking arms with Serbia is going to enhance my credibility as an anti-jihadist.

Posted by: AmericanJewess at March 27, 2007 5:54 AM

Witch King

You are using history to justify rape and genocide. Way to go pal. We can fight jihad; without raping and killing innocents. You are defending the indefensible. The Serbs, who may have been initially legitimately defending themseleves, extended themeslves into the black. They were wrong for what they did. Full stop.

Posted by: Haidon at March 27, 2007 5:57 AM

I agree with Angmar, there is no evidence of rape camps.

Now I don't have a problem with people saying that Serbs do not have clean hands, I do however have a problem when thats all they say. To say that Kosovar Albanians are victims is poor research at the very least

http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm.html

the link is to a series of articles it shows what the Albanian element was like before the break up of Yugoslavia, my personal favorite was the article citing how they burned down a Nunnery(http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm86-5.html). Those Nuns must have really been "Evil Serbs" to warrant their home being burned down, down right criminal all their praying and doing good works.

Another good one http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm87-7.html

where Non-Albanian women are treated so well that they have to protest.

The Serbs may not have clean hands but they are the ones paying for admitting to it, every other nationality in the region firmly denies their own dirty deeds and get rewarded for their denial. I suggest some of you consider the reality that you've been fed propaganda and to re-evaluate who the people of the balkans are. It takes alot of guts to admit to making a mistake but a coward surely knows how to keep his lips tight when his bacon is getting close to the fire.

Posted by: Spectacles at March 27, 2007 5:58 AM

Thomas, the Kangaroo court in the Hague has only stories of individual rapes, it has nothing on the so-called mass rape camps. They did not exist, period.

Where do I stand on Srebrenica? War crimes were comitted there, but not genocide as the Kangaroo court would like people to think. War crimes, that were a response to this:

http://real-srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/

Brought to you from the demilitarized zone of Srebrenica by Naser Oric and his troops. Two wrongs do not make a right, I am just trying to put things in an appropriate context.

Posted by: Witch-king of Angmar at March 27, 2007 6:04 AM

Angmar beat me to the links, I didn't notice still its a good series of links.

Posted by: Spectacles at March 27, 2007 6:05 AM

Svemirko, I am not sure I understand everything you are saying because of your English but will try to address some things I think you said. (By the way, that is not a put-down -- I admire you for being able to speak English at all; I certainly cannot speak your language.) For starters, I am definitely a Jewish woman, married to a Jewish man, living in the state of Israel, Jerusalem, to be exact. I am not fond of Muslims, and I believe that Islam is the greatest danger to the world today. I love Rav Kahane. Do you know who that is? If you do, then you will understand my position.

I have no desire to look like a "good Jewish girl" to the Muslims. There are many Jews who pander to the Muslims; I am not one of them. I do, however, believe in standing for TRUTH and JUSTICE. I believe that Islam's chief victims are its own followers, so I have a measure of sympathy for Muslims who are good in their heart and soul and who are caught up in this spiral of insanity along with the rest of us. As a woman, albeit a Jew and an Israeli, I have a problem with turning a stone cold heart to a Muslim woman or girl-child who has been plucked from her home and brutally gang-raped, her entire life destroyed. I feel the same sympathy for ALL women, Croatian or Serbian, as well. My point in focusing on the Muslim women is that they were more widely victimized, and it is ABOMINABLE to me that anyone would now call them all liars and claim that their rapes never happened.

You know, it is possible to defend Serbia's desire to remove Islam from its realm without lying about crimes committed against the enemy.

Posted by: AmericanJewess at March 27, 2007 6:08 AM

Haidon, if I am no better then holocaust deniers, neither are the judges of the ICJ in the Hague(not to be confounded with the Kangaroo ICTY) who ruled that any crimes commited in Bosnia do not characterize genocide.

Posted by: Witch-king of Angmar at March 27, 2007 6:12 AM

" that what Ihtisaari means by "irreversible" -- that once the Muslims push out the resident Serbs, then the only thing to do is to make the place entirely part of Dar al-Islam, for nowhere, apparently, are Muslims to have to endure what many non-Muslims have had to endure for 1350 years, which is to say, life as a minority? "

.........Should Kosovo become an Independent Muslim state, I would venture to say, it would become an European "Gaza", home to crazed people firing rockets and Islamic clerics sending out terrorists and suicide bombers...

what then happens?............

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 27, 2007 6:19 AM

AmericanJewess, I'm sorry but you are climbing up the mirrors now, as the Italians would say.

You claim it was not possible to talk to victims because they were not willing to do so. Then how, I ask, did people ever come to a conclusion that there were rape camps? Where were those camps located? How come there wasn't a flood of child births among muslim women in Bosnia from these rapes? Those exams you claim prove nothing, they are all individual cases that sadly happen in every war since the dawn of time. As for you not believing that rape was equally distributed, you are entitled to believe whatever you like, but you are not entitled to your own facts. And it is a fact that rapes in Bosnia were equally distributed, but Serb women raped were not a story for western press.

As for Bosnian muslims being inocuous as you say, the Serbs slaughtered by the ustashas in Bosnia, out of whom many were muslims from Bosnia, in WWII would certainly beg to differ, as would those who had to live under Ottoman Turkish rule. That is at least just as bad as blowing themselves up in a bus, don't you think.

Posted by: Witch-king of Angmar at March 27, 2007 6:26 AM

American Jewess
C'mon, are you telling me no Jewish man ever raped anyone?? Since Mohammed married Aesha when she was 6yrs and had sex with this little girl at 9yrs-what do you call that!!All around the planet Muslim men marry & are allowed to have intercourse with their 'wives' at 12yrs old,younger in some cases since it in legal in Iran to marry them[litle girls] of nine years old and have sex with them...
As for the 'rape camps'yes I've heard of them & wouldn't deny some women suffered rape by Serbian
Soldiers.However since U.N offered money to those
claiming to have been raped this sets a doubtful
precedent.Believe this scheme was dropped when one of Bosnian Muslim girls gave birth to a BLACK BABY-which can't be blamed on Serbian Soldiers.Also claim of 30,000 Rapes does sound extreme when Bosnian Serb Army could hardly field
that number let alone spend all their time in raping.
Madame Simone Veil is a woman of absolute integrity-she was herself raped & had her back broken by torture yet never revealed the names of her associates to the Gestapo.So I resent you
casting aspersions upon her.
A certain understanding of mores of Muslim women makes me think you aren't a Jewess at all but Muslim yourself.

Posted by: Morgane at March 27, 2007 6:28 AM

Witch-king, you aren't a careful reader, are you? I said that Muslim women told of their rapes as long as they could remain anonymous, but to file an official repor