from sapere aude to noli sapere

Posted by: FreeSpeech at April 2, 2007 9:31 AM

"though the cross at the top will come down."

...that says it all....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 2, 2007 9:49 AM

Dhimmi Brits giving muslims another victory over Kuffar.

Posted by: Crusader at April 2, 2007 10:31 AM

When those muslims under 10 years old grow up they will be the ones to run off the christians that are left. Just look to what is happening in Nigeria and Lebanon. Half will convert and the rest will leave when their churches are burnt down.

Or will slavery come back into acceptance?

Posted by: Borg at April 2, 2007 10:41 AM

When those muslims under 10 years old grow up they will be the ones to run off the christians that are left. Just look to what is happening in Nigeria and Lebanon. Half will convert and the rest will leave when their churches are burnt down.

Or will slavery come back into acceptance?

Posted by: Borg at April 2, 2007 10:41 AM

Its either fight, convert or die. Those are the options the West has to choose from.

Posted by: Elric66 at April 2, 2007 10:44 AM

Very sad. On the other hand, there are examples of what local opposition to Muslim expansionism can achieve. See these links:

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/02/23/16000-say-no-to-mosque/
http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/02/28/mosque-bid-thrown-out/

They refer to plans to build a mega-mosque in Dudley, England, an industrial town near Birmingham (the mosque and "community centre" were originally insultingly to be called "Pride of Dudley"). The plans, which were recommended for approval by the local planning officers despite being contrary to planning guidelines, were thrown out by local elected councillors after a huge groundswell of local opposition, including a petition with 16,000 names. The local Muslim “leader” had the gall to say “This is a sad day for Dudley. We are throwing democracy into the gutter.”. On the contrary, it was a victory for local democracy.

Posted by: JFGR at April 2, 2007 10:49 AM

"We've been trying to get a place of worship for 30 years,"

Hmmm, don't know any good builders? I'm sure if you were really desperate you could just have built one...or am I being naive?

It's fitting it is a church: it is visually symbolic

Although, of course, not in the way you imply to the reporter. The symbolism is all about the supremacy of islam, the victory of islam, just as it has been all over, the crushing and conversion of churches, temples.

Last year, I read a thoroughly depressing article in 'The Tablet', the Roman Catholic magazine, an interview with one Ibrahim Mogra, if memory serves me aright, a more fawning example of the blindness engendered by 'inter-faith dialogue' and multicultural relativism I hope never again to encounter. Mr Mogra (he must be a moderate, his organization is affiliated to the MCB...) showed our interviewer around Leicester, pointing out churches that had been, or were in the process of being, converted to mosks. Never once did it occur to the interviewer to ask, ever so politely, why they needed to take over churches, couldnt they build their own places of worship?

Posted by: thomas ato at April 2, 2007 10:57 AM

"We've been trying to get a place of worship for 30 years," said Sheraz Arshad, 31, the Muslim leader here, his voice rattling around the empty old Mount Zion Methodist Church that will house his mosque. "It's fitting it is a church: it is visually symbolic, the coming together of religions."...

Indeed – in quite the same way that the cankerous al-aska mosque now occupies Jerusalem’s Holy Temple Mount!

Posted by: descendantofacrusader at April 2, 2007 11:29 AM

It should have been burned to the ground first.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at April 2, 2007 11:56 AM

There should be laws in zoning codes against temples of one religion being converted to temples of another, given the symbolic implication of conversion. If a new building is needed, make them build it from scratch.

Needless to say, none of the civic authorities in the story above note the symbolism behind this, which is no different from the Church of St John of Bartholomew being converted to the al Umayyad mosque in Damascus. The way Muslims look at it, it's like a tiny piece of dar ul Harb becoming dar ul Islam. That's what makes this dangerous - they see it as a conquest, while we don't.

Memo to all Infidels, be it in Britain, here, Israel, Russia, anywhere - if you have no use for a Church/Synagogue/Temple/Monestary/______ [fill in your other religious place of worship], make it a museum about that religion, or a secular place. But please don't sell it to Muslims just because they have the cash you paid while filling up your car. You have no idea how that'll come back to haunt you.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 2, 2007 12:00 PM

If the church was no longer valid as a church, it could have been turned into a community centre, apartments, anything at all other than a mosque.

I can't remember a time when British citizens have been so comprehensively let down by their leaders.

Posted by: Celsius at April 2, 2007 12:16 PM

According to islamic law, the sharia, these mosques and the land they occupy are now viewed as belonging to islam and the ummah forever. If there are Christian cemeteries attached to the churches, they can (and will)be descrated.

Posted by: the poetess at April 2, 2007 12:23 PM

In Clitheroe, the tussle involved a passionate young professional of Pakistani descent coming up against the raw nerves of tradition-bound local residents.

-Article was written by a nitwit woman. Same as our multikulti sob stories are. Same for illegal immigration sob stories

-WTF does passionate mean? That something is good if the backer is "passionate"? Muhammad was passionate, dittos for Hitler. Excuse me while I find a toilet to barf in

-This Pakistani "professional" is a professional what?

Posted by: dennisw at April 2, 2007 12:52 PM

Do they have to replace the church? can they not start from scratch or is that like the sign of victory to conquer? Their flag is up now; forget your history mate it never happened. It’s nothing new this happens if people don’t have faith anymore, God can only help out with this one shame people losing their history, it started from school they banned Christ and now no one knows much about him so they don’t go to Church.
Why did they ban Christ? Because it might offend but they forget to spread his word as instructed and unlike Muslims they have spread their assimilation of Churches and their anti-Christ intolerance and the public let it happen so they are free from the morals Christ delivers even if they only believe in goodwill that is not enough as a faith lost is a church lost. But we know that the church is the people not a building but shutting the church down is a sign there are now less people with faith.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at April 2, 2007 1:45 PM

"Hmmm, don't know any good builders? I'm sure if you were really desperate you could just have built one...or am I being naive?"

you should know by now that muslim low iq level doesn't let them to do anything more than exploding themselves and signing with a cross, or better, not even that one.

Posted by: FedUpagain at April 2, 2007 1:51 PM

In Blackstone, the number of Muslim and Christian children under 10 years old is evenly divided...so says the article. That means that in a mere 10-15 years, there will be millions more young, angry British Muslims, demanding, destroying and spreading out to take over places and people. I knew that the take-over was happening, but I didn't realize the changes would take place largely within a decade. A question for British JW readers... have you talked among yourselves as to where to go as the Britain that you grew up with disappears before your eyes? ..the upper reaches of Canada, the sparsely populated parts of Australia?? .Life might be more bearable to start over again in a new location, but where? Is there public or private discussion of it?? There should be; there really doesn't seem much time to spare..and so sad to say that as I love Britain and have good memories of it from years ago.

Posted by: maryrose at April 2, 2007 3:21 PM

there will be no obvious changes to the church's exterior, though the cross at the top will come down.

That makes ALL the difference....

I can't believe this is happening, its very sad to see any Christian Church abandoned.... and worse yet turned into a mosque, all with the okay of the local leaders...

Posted by: adobe at April 2, 2007 4:45 PM

Mr. Spencer, the words for the title of your next book (hopefully on the Islamification of the former sites of other faiths, from the Hagia Sophia to the Bamiyan Buddhas) has been given to you, free, by the coda line of this piece (as noted by exsgtbrown):

"THOUGH THE CROSS AT THE TOP WILL COME DOWN".

Glad I saw England when it was still there.

Sic semper islam

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 2, 2007 5:04 PM

Churches becoming mosques and hindu temples are not uncommon in the “minority” areas of Britain. They often start as “cultural centres” and get big grants from the taxpayers for renovation.

The difference in Clitheroe is that it is still a quiet country town with as far as I know, a small muslim population and there seems to be a trend to plant mosques in these places.

Posted by: Fred at April 2, 2007 5:07 PM

The brits are not christian anyway. Very few go to a christian service. They don't seem to care about the muslim expansion in their homeland. They will start to care when the muslims start closing down their pubs. Then it will be too late.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at April 2, 2007 6:13 PM

callmeinfidel

The brits are not Christian anyway.

This is fairly true but they have always been easygoing about religion anyway and have a long history of tolerance.

They don't seem to care about the muslim expansion in their homeland.

They do care but you cannot understand the extent of repression in Britain today. It is a criminal offence to say, publish or broadcast anything which my damage “community cohesion”. Anything means ANYTHING - even if it is true.

Posted by: Fred at April 2, 2007 6:46 PM

life must be terrible for a muslim in the UK

so says this british white anglo-saxon liberal journo. republished on an iranian web site!!!

Drumbeat of
Hysteria Against British Muslims

I’ve been trying to imagine what it must be like to be a Muslim in Britain. I guess there’s a sense of dread about switching on the radio or television, even about walking into a newsagent. What will they be saying about us today? Will we be under assault for the way we dress? Or the schools we go to, or the mosques we build? Who will be on the front page: a terror suspect, a woman in a veil or, the best of both worlds, a veiled terror suspect?

http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2691/html/dotcoms.htm

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at April 2, 2007 9:33 PM

In Brick Lane, East London, there is a building that is quite well known:

"The building that now houses the Jamme Masjid mosque is symptomatic of the shifting identities of the area: in the past, it has served as a Protestant church for Huguenots, a Methodist chapel and a Jewish synagogue." - Brick Lane guide.

The crucial point about that area of London, however, is that it is a gateway district for new immigrants. As soon as they go up in the world they move out, as did, successively, the Huguenots, the Irish and the Jews. The disturbing thing about the Bengali immigration is that they want to rename the place and make it a permanent nucleus for Bengali culture. II used to put this down to lack of ambition or historical perspective - before I realise how territorial Muslims are. Converting mediaeval rural churches to mosques really is an appalling sell out of part of our country's most precious heritage.

Posted by: wallyUK at April 2, 2007 11:32 PM

wallyUK

So far as I know they have not got to converting medieval rural churches yet, but in time? I think the Clitheroe church is only 100-year-old Methodist building and fairly ordinary.

As to the Brick Lane area of London, did you know street signs are now in Bengali as well as English? This is a bit of a joke because a liaison worker in another part of the UK told me most "Asians" are illiterate in both languages.

Posted by: Fred at April 3, 2007 1:30 AM

“I’ve been trying to imagine what it must be like to be a Muslim in Britain. I guess there’s a sense of dread about switching on the radio or television, even about walking into a newsagent. What will they be saying about us today? Will we be under assault for the way we dress? Or the schools we go to, or the mosques we build? Who will be on the front page: a terror suspect, a woman in a veil or, the best of both worlds, a veiled terror suspect?”

That must be a fairly accurate picture, I think, and of course it is justified. But the remedy lies with themselves, and that is their big problem. Playing the victim card again and again is getting increasingly threadbare.

Brick Lane -- wasn't this where the Home Secretary was told he was unwelcome on Muslim territory?

Posted by: JFGR at April 3, 2007 3:41 AM

"life must be terrible for a muslim in the UK"

"so says this british white anglo-saxon liberal journo. republished on an iranian web site!!!"

Except he is actually a British White Jewish Liberal journo - Jonathan Freedland - a regular contributer to Britain's Jewish Chronicle and favourite of the BBC. Never underestimate the power of Jewish dhimmitude. The Iranians must be loving it.

Posted by: Jinnee at April 3, 2007 4:46 AM

Britain won't go without a fight!
We are mobilising check this out!

http://www.godhelpbritain.blogspot.com/

Posted by: raz at April 3, 2007 6:44 AM

The local Muslim “leader” had the gall to say “This is a sad day for Dudley. We are throwing democracy into the gutter.”. On the contrary, it was a victory for local democracy.

Posted by: JFGR

Interesting how they always say "we" when things don't go their way. Truly Borg-like. The Green Menace.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at April 3, 2007 2:25 PM

-This Pakistani "professional" is a professional what?

Posted by: dennisw

a. asylum seeker

b. welfare recipient

c. breeder

Posted by: Allahfanculo at April 3, 2007 2:26 PM

rabble rouser....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 3, 2007 4:09 PM

Look also at NEW England.

Mansfield, Massachusetts.

YOUTH VIEWS~ Meeting the students of an American madrasa
by: Chinki Sinha date: 2006-10-24
Syracuse, New York - About a five-minute walk away from Mansfield station in Massachusetts lays an old structure. It is a church, at least on the outside. The cross on the top looks dismembered with just one beam pointing upwards, the horizontal shaft missing. A small board on the wall identifies it as Al-Noor Academy. A tiny green-collared flag with Arabic letters on it peeps out of one of the windows on the side of the building. A crescent moon, which looks out of place and context, stands at the top of the entrance. There are no minarets, no pronounced external symbols. There is nothing to tell passers-by that this is an Islamic school.

-this is an article about the new Islamic High School constructed out of an abandon church. My heart breaks everytime I read it. I believe the schoolis now Saudi funded with a staff of embassaries that get involved in InterFaith dialogue that admissible to only those who believe in the slogan: Islam: The religion of Peace.

Posted by: Briars at April 3, 2007 7:35 PM

Read all of the article if you have the stomach for it.

http://www.commongroundnews.org/article.php?sid=1&id=3023

Posted by: Briars at April 3, 2007 7:40 PM

Meanwhile, the Friday-night pig races are rolling right along in Barker, Texas, as a show of infidel disapproval against major Muslim construction next door. I heard Craig Baker interviewed on the radio last week and he was full of piss and vinegar. The radio host asked him whether he had been threatened and Craig answered indirectly, that all Texans in those parts are pretty much armed. Heh.

(True of transplanted Texans here in California too.)

http://www.americanpigrace.com/

Robert! You should buy an ad in the pig race program in case any of those infidel Texans don't know about Jihadwatch!

Posted by: Dana at April 3, 2007 7:49 PM

"...one that will put a mosque in an imposing stone Methodist church that had been used as a factory since its congregation dwindled away 40 years ago."

Of course, it will still be used as a factory - only now they will turn out bombs and suicide bombers.

Posted by: Xerxes at April 5, 2007 10:48 AM

It is almost inpossible to buy land in England or Europe. May-be every 20 year than possible to buy 1/2 of area show up and it cost alot to buy that land.

Posted by: DefenderofIslam at April 6, 2007 6:24 AM

This so called Mosque was sold to the people of Clitheroe as a Multi Faith centre with no changes to the building exterior.It was to include a Mosque.The Mosque was to be for 15 to 20 worshippers now it is 300.
Sheras Arshad has shown his own lack of tollerance by saying the Cross on top will come down. How petty and racist is that?
The cross is a Lightening conductor, Lightening conductors are most efficent if they have points they often look like a cross weather the are on a Church or a mill Chimney, Does this sound like the words of a rational tollerent man?
This man has also started a Scout Group The First Clitheroe Scouts.It again is supposed to be multi faith but I am not aware of any of the existing troops turning members away.
A point of interest when Baden Powel started the Scout movement it was to train children to be soldiers to go to the killing fields of war.
Does this sound like a man you could trust?
The officals approved the scheme under pressure from the media the planning meeting was filmed by 2 TV channels, RVBC and the Police anti terror squad. There were at least 5 news papers and all they wanted was a race war. The press was manipulated and the press forced the decision despite over 1000 objections from the people of Clitheroe.
Neighbours to the site were ignored despite the Mosque potentialy Knocking 30% off the property values.
We are the Victims of a non violent Jihad we are not allowed to critise without being called racist.
Is it racist to call someone a Con man who would say anything you want to hear Because he wanted that Mosque.

Posted by: legvitch at April 7, 2007 6:23 PM